Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Stop banging your heads against the wall (was Re: Ad hominem ag infinit um...) Date: 14 Jan 2000 00:02:40 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 83 Message-ID: <6ubt6pa833.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <387ca9a3.1977349@news.otenet.gr> <2000011222412675767@zetnet .co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 947804560 740 10.0.3.2 (13 Jan 2000 23:02:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jan 2000 23:02:40 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:29939 J L Williams writes: > from esoterica4@yahoo.com (Panayiotis) contains these words: > > > I think that this debte is getting tiring and uninteresting and I > > guess many people will agree. It seems the two sides will never come > > to a meeting point, > > So let's just stop this Exactly! This is a call to all the regulars in a.oob who are still feeding the trolls, many despite saying they will stop soing so (The Original Ken, Trish, John Garrison, B.D. Yager, Mark Baron, J L Williams, Jerry Adams, etc): Would you please stop banging your heads against the wall? Have you still not leared from all the wars with fundamentalist sceptics that you are just waisting your time and everyone elses? Have you ever changed an fundamentalists beliefs? No! Have you ever got one of them to accept a single reason you give for not playing their tests? No! Have you ever convinced one that you are genuinely not interested in Randis million? No! Do you believe your posting will ever achive any of the above, against all previous experience? No! No! No! So why are you carrying on? Stop feeding the trolls! I have just read in an other discussion in one of our university papers a nice argument for why arguing with fundamentalists (in that case islaming ones, but it applies equally for christian and sceptic ones) is allwasy a faillure: Their mistake is not unlogical thinking (which can be argued against by logical demonstration) but rather relentless application of logic to an incomplete/false world model. To stop them you would have to expand/replace their world model, but this is impossible, because that would require demonstrating something that is not possible to fit in their world models. And only models that can successfully prevent such demonstration ever become so invincible that they lead to fundamentalist behaviour. So what can be done? Only one thing: prevent the next generation getting as fucked up. Spread the word or other models. Immunise the children. In the case of a.oob that means: Don't wast your time on battling the lost souls, prevent further losses. Help aspirants to as much success in OOBEing as possible. Let them spread the word and even more help. Applied repetitively this will in time make OOBE an socially accepted phenomen, and scepti-fundis will find no more minds that respond to their crippling beliefs. > > Thank you. I hope others agree with me too. Completely. This scepti-warring nonsense has to stop. Call for action: we have successfully solved the problem of providing beginners who are looking for info with URLs. Now it is time to start regularly providing troll-responants with post reminding them that they should not respond. Anyone else prepared to engage in posting or mailing remonders every time one forgets this? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/