From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Off topic - @Home risks Usenet Death Penalty Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:37:20 +0100 Organization: Telenordia Lines: 31 Message-ID: <387E1B60.35D7EDD5@algonet.se> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: sdu57-253.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: zingo.tninet.se 947788651 4813 195.163.253.57 (13 Jan 2000 18:37:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jan 2000 18:37:31 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: sv,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!n00zpHeed.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.algonet.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:29836 Hi everyone. Saw on /. that the ISP @Home risks being sentenced to the Usenet Death Penalty (UDP). That is, Usenet sysops will configure their systems to automatically cancel all posts originating from any @Home account. The reason for this is that a very large number of spam originates on @Home servers, and that @Home, despite repeatedly being asked to do something about it (reconfiguring servers better, for starters), has done nothing. Now, if this comes to pass, it means that anyone subscribing to @Home will not be able to post on any newsgroup. This may seem like draconian measures, but the idea is to make @Home subscribers put pressure on the ISP to do something about the problem. If @Home does that, the UDP need not come to pass. @Home has until 1700 hours PST Jan 18 to show that it is taking steps to rectify the situation. In the past, the threat of UDP has been quite effective in convincing ISPs to address the problem of spam. See you out there... /Gunnar ---------------------------------------- Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity ---------------------------------------- ###### From: "Arlo" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <387E1B60.35D7EDD5@algonet.se> Subject: Re: Off topic - @Home risks Usenet Death Penalty Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 06:42:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.112.184.107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc1.on.home.com 947918563 24.112.184.107 (Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:42:43 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:42:43 PST Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!europa.netcrusader.net!207.114.4.11!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:30128 "Gunnar Ljungstrand" wrote: > The reason for this is that a very large number of spam originates on > @Home servers, and that @Home, despite repeatedly being asked to do > something about it (reconfiguring servers better, for starters), has > done nothing. This would be terrible! It's complete and absolute discrimination! I could make a thousand comparisons from history here.. UGH! If this is true, it's an absolute sham. I've already experienced this on IRC, a lot of servers or channel ban a whole doman so everybody that is part of @home gets shut out because of a few. EEEK! Arlo ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Off topic - @Home risks Usenet Death Penalty Date: 16 Jan 2000 00:13:35 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 73 Message-ID: <6uhfgf0vz4.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <387E1B60.35D7EDD5@algonet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 947978015 741 10.0.3.2 (15 Jan 2000 23:13:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Jan 2000 23:13:35 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:30145 "Arlo" writes: > "Gunnar Ljungstrand" wrote: > > > The reason for this is that a very large number of spam originates on > > @Home servers, Funny enough I have never seen a single Usenet [1] spam from there. As I send complaints to the appropriate postmaster [2] for over 50% of all Usenet spams that make it to here I have to look at the domains they come from. I have never seen home.net there. [1] UDPs are all about Usenet spamming. Mail spams fall under the RBL. [2] I am myself a postmaster and have a way-over-average dislike of spammers, most likely from when a mail spammer abused my mail server resulting in my mailbox being filled with 1300 error mails in one night. It took 3 days to tidy up the mess (including stopping his repeats). > This would be terrible! It's complete and absolute discrimination! I could > make a thousand comparisons from history here.. Actually it is a sanctioning, not discrimination. Nations do it all of the time to harm missbehaving governments. On the Net it is used against providers that harm the Net whith lax anti-spam standards (for whatever reason, with @home it seems to be too little personel, i.e. cost cutting). > UGH! If this is true, it's an absolute sham. I've already experienced this In politics it has unfortunately large side effects on the innocent population (but less that a war would). The same on the Net where it hits providers customers. But the alternative is to let non-responsive providers let spammers destroy the Net. So its the lesser evil. Actually UDP only stops them posting to Usenet, IDP is far worse, that simply cuts them off the Net for everything (web, mail, news, irc, ...), neither send nor recieve. That has only once been done, against AGIS (an provider owned by a pro spammer, founded for exactly that purpose, after being kicked out of others). > on IRC, a lot of servers or channel ban a whole doman so everybody that is > part of @home gets shut out because of a few. Unfortunately it is not possible for the Net to selectively stop those few. Because of the (deliberate and good) annonymity of the Net it is impossible to reliable detect the source of anything with more precicion than the IP Address of the emitting computer. On Usenet that is the providers news server, on IRC their IRC server. The best way is to selectively weed out those users that do not know how to behave, but that can only be done by the provider (who can identify them by login). If the provider does not do that, then the Net has no other choice than to either accept the damage and die or o force that provider by UDP. And UDP is an effective method. Most UDPs only get threatened and then the provider responds and cleans up its act. Apparently @home reacted in less than 24 hours. Whether their reaction is accepted is still open (the passed all the blame to their customers missconfigured machines being used by external spammers and in sending the message telling this they faked approval marks for some moderated news groups). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Off topic - @Home risks Usenet Death Penalty Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:17:32 +0100 Organization: Telenordia Lines: 37 Message-ID: <388386EC.C265005E@algonet.se> References: <387E1B60.35D7EDD5@algonet.se> <3882574D.B5E112D1@Home.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du101-91.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: cubacola.tninet.se 948143862 5689 195.100.91.101 (17 Jan 2000 21:17:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jan 2000 21:17:42 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: sv,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.tli.de!news.algonet.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:30311 Hi TienYen, TienYen wrote: > > Hi Gunnar > > Thanks for the info - this is bad news indeed for us @Homies. I'll > certainly give them a call! If enough of their customers do, they might do something about it and the UDP need not come to pass. > BTW When I signed on tonight, I was told there were over 7000 new > headers. Being the intrepid type, I downloaded them all, only to find > 250 new msgs. Anyone else on Netscape find this? Perhaps your newsreader is set to only download messages from, say, a week back - or only unread ones. I think something like this has happened to me too, at some time or another. > Cheers, > TienYen (@Home) See you out there... /Gunnar (who also uses Netscape, but who is impatiently waiting for Mozilla) ---------------------------------------- Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity ----------------------------------------