Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: 28 Dec 1999 01:04:08 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 103 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: > > On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 10:14:50 -0500, "lorz" wrote: > >have it at home and the name escapes me but if you do a search in amazon I'm > >sure it will show up. Both good books! > > This Amazon I keep hearing about; is this a bookshop? A website that sells books. > Does it work in the UK? It works worldwide. You order by filling out an web form and they send the books by post or UPS. > Do I have to give them my credit card number or do they do > Switch? I do not know what Switch is. But CC is the standard method for paying for anything on the web. > Is it safe to do so? Transmission from your web browser to their website is enyrypted by SSL. Usually with the standard 40bit implementation in Netscape. Cracking that to extract the data transmitted is routine work for GCHQ type people[1], but beyond what an average hacker can do[2]. [1] assuming the expected contents of the transmission justifies spending around $100'000 of super-computer calculation time. Your CC number doesn't, potential plans for being Guy Fawkes II would. [2] hasn't got enough computer power at disposal, but will have so in 5-10 years. Hopefully[3] the silly laws[4] demanding the 40bit limit will be gone by then, so we can all use the military grade 112/128bit stuff. [3] 56bit is now routinely allowed for "special request" projects, but not yet in standard software such as web browsers. [4] that is U.S. law[5], which becomes world law in this case, because both important web browser makers (Netscape and Microsoft) are U.S. firms. [5] that is U.S. export law. U.S. citisens have 128bit since years, but the 128bit versions are not allowed to be exported. So we here in Europe have only 40bit. Actually the French are even worse off: they have no encryption at all, as it violates their laws. > How soon do they send the books? When I got my "Holographic Universe" from them it took in the 2-5 day range. > Are they reliable? They seem to be. > What is their address? http://www.amazon.com/ The technical questions answered, now though why I will _not_ be buying from them any more: I am taking part in the boycott against them. What lead to that? Unfair business practices. To be more precise: missusing law to get rid competitors. More precice: to force competitors to make their offers less attractive. Amazon invented a technique they call "one click ordering", which allows (pre-registered) customers to order by clicking on an single button. Other book sellers thought this was a nifty idea and adopted the same practice. This is a nice case of competition working to make life better for customers. But Amazon decided they did not like others sites improving, so they took out an patent on their method and then sued the others. Apparently the court accepted this suit. So now all others have to make their sites less friendly to use. Once again customers lose to bad business behaviour. I can't stop the law allowing itsself to be abused (patent law by the book only allows patenting of implementations (that is the mechanism implementing the web site) not of appearence (user interface). But I can help punish Amazon there where it hurts: their bottom line. So I send you (and others here) this post: do not buy from Amazon. I have also deleted my account there. In future I will either go to http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ (the shop who lost in the court case) or to http://www.fatbrain.com/. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:43:19 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 43 Message-ID: <3868932a.7201491@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userap38.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 946377920 5430 62.188.135.253 (28 Dec 1999 10:45:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 1999 10:45:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!btnet-peer!btnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On 28 Dec 1999 01:04:08 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >The technical questions answered, now though why I will _not_ be buying >from them any more: I am taking part in the boycott against them. >What lead to that? Unfair business practices. To be more precise: >missusing law to get rid competitors. More precice: to force competitors >to make their offers less attractive. I didn't know about this. Nor did Bob, my husband. He asks you "Is Neil still using Microsoft products?" >So I send you (and others here) this post: do not buy from Amazon. >I have also deleted my account there. In future I will either go to >http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ (the shop who lost in the court case) >or to http://www.fatbrain.com/. Thanks, Neil, I'll look into this. Incidentally, I wished for you several posts ago, and LO! Here you are! Do you have that record of the trip we made to Jim William's house? I'll repost the relevant conversation in case you get the same problems as we do (unlikely, I'm sure!): On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 19:21:40 -0000, "carolisle" wrote: >Am having the same problems and have tried several ISPs . . . all UK >Freebies. Am so peed off with this that I am going to pay again. I would >love to have read the bit about Jim's curtains, didn't even know he'd posted >lately ('Hello Jim' if you actually see this post) Probably won't see it >myself. Hi, Carol, don't panic about Jim's curtains. Try Dejanews - it happened about nine or ten months ago, as part of a group trip out. We had another (smaller!) invasion of sceptoics and so several people wanted to try a 'scientific' test and all visit Jim's room at a specified time-frame. I don't get many posts myself, so this seems to be a general problem, everyone complains, all over the world, of the same thing! We need Neil Franklin here, as he comprehends this ISP thingummy, plus has collected all the interesting newsgroup experiences in the past! Love from Julia. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: 28 Dec 1999 20:36:32 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 164 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6u4sd26enz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3868932a.7201491@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: > > On 28 Dec 1999 01:04:08 +0100, Neil Franklin > wrote: > >What lead to that? Unfair business practices. To be more precise: > >missusing law to get rid competitors. More precice: to force competitors > >to make their offers less attractive. > > I didn't know about this. Nor did Bob, my husband. It seems to have been ignored by mainstream media. I also only know of it from the slashdot.org "News for Nerds" web news site, which is very attentive to copyright, patent and trademark law abuses, privacy violations and censorship issues when they touch the net. > He asks you > "Is Neil still using Microsoft products?" :-) Privately, the last MS product I used was an small (10MByte partition) MS-DOS 3.3 installation to run dBase IV for an user group member list program. I stopped using that about 2 or 3 years ago, when I gave up being president of that group. Since then I am using Linux to 100%. Professionally I still use Word for Mac about 1-3 times per year to make the name tags for our computers. The font is a Mac font and I do not know how to extract it so I could sent the print jobs from one of the Silicon Graphics or Sun boxes (which I administer as a job). > Incidentally, I wished for you several posts ago, and LO! Here you > are! That was in relation to what post? Actually I have found out how to beat my providers news server into submission. So I am getting everything again (minus the normal Usenet losses, the first post of the "B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results" thread went lost). > Do you have that record of the trip we made to Jim William's > house? I can't remember that trip. Doesn't seem to be that I have it either: chonsp:ttyp0:neil:~/htdocs/Usenet/alt.out-of-body$ grep -i williams 1999* | cut -f 1 -d ":" | uniq 19990101_Dick_Silk_is_very_hard_to_pull 19990111_Seth_Speaks 19990112_People_Places_Things 19990113_Area51 19990125_Hurrah 19990125_To_The_Healers_Was_I_healing 19990222_Well_Now_I_m_Curious 19990223_what_is_on_the_other_side_of_the_tunnel 19990309_Clairity_may_have_visited_me 19990309_Julia_flew_to_Florida 19990311_Spirit_Guides 19990314_Does_Christianity_approve_OBE 19990315_what_dreams_may_come 19990318_Two_happier_deaths 19990412_RV_Question 19990414_Dialogue_with_the_Lucidity_Institute 19990422_Happy_Birthday_to_me 19990422_OBEers 19990427_Trip_to_MIR 19990504_Lucid_Dreaming_FAQ_V_2_21_01MAY99 19990511_Bad_trippin 19990531_My_Astral_Healing 19990605_Obe_on_a_Golf_Course 19990614_What_to_do_when_OBE 19990623_Blackholes 19990702_No_Trespassing 19990913_Pineal_doorway 19990915_Are_these_Aura_s_I_m_seeing 19990915_COLOR_OR_B_W 19990928_Here_s_a_trick_to_prevent_blindness_while_OBE 19990928_Lost_my_map 19991128_Thought_Creation The only ones with someone tripping are 19990309_Clairity_may_have_visited_me and 19990309_Julia_flew_to_Florida and in these williams only appears in the mail address j.l.williams@zetnet.co.uk of his posts. Was that trip possibly in the July-September range, when I had no a.oob coming through? > I'll repost the relevant conversation in case you get the same > problems as we do (unlikely, I'm sure!): Actually I had mid July to mid September an 2 month total outage of a.oob. > Hi, Carol, don't panic about Jim's curtains. Try Dejanews - it > happened about nine or ten months ago, as part of a group trip out. That would make it February/March. The first half of February was also a 2 week outage (in the whole lot I had 3 outages, damn newsfeed). These are the threads I have from that period: chonsp:ttyp0:neil:~/htdocs/Usenet/alt.out-of-body$ ls -1 19990[23]* 19990215_Instructions_for_life 19990215_OOB_Faq 19990215_Short_oobes_in_the_bathtube 19990216_OOBE_s_and_Lucid_Dreams_are_the_same 19990218_Serious_question 19990222_Well_Now_I_m_Curious 19990223_Computers_obey 19990223_Messages_out_of_order 19990223_what_is_on_the_other_side_of_the_tunnel 19990305_Out_Of_Body_how_to_guide 19990306_Deepak_Chopra_on_oobe 19990309_Clairity_may_have_visited_me 19990309_Julia_flew_to_Florida 19990311_Spirit_Guides 19990313_A_visit_to_John_Fitzsimons 19990314_Does_Christianity_approve_OBE 19990315_what_dreams_may_come 19990317_Struggling_to_understand 19990317_tao 19990318_Question 19990318_Two_happier_deaths 19990325_remembering_weird_Please_reply 19990326_What_about_this 19990327_Hight_pitched_noise_Sensing_other_people 19990327_brain_OBE_software 19990331_Newbies_Vibrations > We had another (smaller!) invasion of sceptoics This is definitely the largest I have seen. And I have been here quite a while. First saved thread is 19971227_Has_this_happened_to_you, that is yesterday minus 2 years. > I don't get many posts myself, so this seems to be a general > problem, everyone complains, all over the world, of the same thing! Usenet is principially unreliable. And it can not be fixed. I suppose noone in 1981 thought that their little 3 computer network would grow to this size. > We need Neil Franklin here, as he comprehends this ISP thingummy, > plus has collected all the interesting newsgroup experiences in the > past! Actually I only have few of the actual exploits, because they often went to the Astralnauts site. So there was no need to collect them. For those that do not know the collection, direct your browser to: http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.out-of-body/ with the thread title from the lists above added to the end of it. There are also collections for: alt.ascii-art, alt.folklore.computers, rec.art.books.tolkien. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 21:53:37 +0100 Organization: Telenordia Lines: 31 Message-ID: <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: sdu56-252.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: cubacola.tninet.se 946414419 21137 195.163.252.56 (28 Dec 1999 20:53:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 1999 20:53:39 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: sv,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!newsfeed.tli.de!news.algonet.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Hi Neil, Neil Franklin wrote: [snipped, ´cause my ISP won´t let me post otherwise] > So I send you (and others here) this post: do not buy from Amazon. Hear, hear! I have also stopped buying from them, because of this, and will be deleting my account. However, it might get their attention more if you not only boycott them, but rather order something, and then cancel your order, *politely* explaining to them why you are doing so. And BTW, the entire URL for /. is http://www.slashdot.org Cool place. News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters. See you out there... /Gunnar ---------------------------------------- Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity ---------------------------------------- ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: 29 Dec 1999 18:03:00 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 48 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6ubt79of23.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Gunnar Ljungstrand writes: > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > [snipped, ´cause my ISP won´t let me post otherwise] Too bigger quote?. Yes, they don't like that (it drives up network traffic, for which they are paying the bill :-)). Of course one should only quote those parts of an post that one is responding to :-). > > So I send you (and others here) this post: do not buy from Amazon. > > I have also stopped buying from them, because of this, and will be > deleting my account. > > However, it might get their attention more if you not only boycott them, > but rather order something, and then cancel your order, *politely* > explaining to them why you are doing so. Well actually I went to the "modify account" page and intended to a) delete my account, and b) put a message into whatever "comment" field I found. Actually there was not "delete account" button there. So I mailed them to postmaster@amazon.com (there was no other email address on the page either) and in that mail told them why I was leaving. This resulted in an 5-7 mails discussion with orders@amazon.com in which I gave them the reasons. > And BTW, the entire URL for /. is http://www.slashdot.org http://slashdot.org/ also works. At least that is what I have in my bookmarks (http://neil.franklin.ch/Links/) and click on to go there. > Cool place. News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters. Yes. Good place to keep updated on what is happening on the net and in technology. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:24:59 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 37 Message-ID: <386a353c.320981@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> <3lpa4.52497$Dk.600077@news1.mia> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userar94.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 946484829 2642 62.188.136.253 (29 Dec 1999 16:27:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 1999 16:27:09 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!iol.ie!colt.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Wed, 29 Dec 1999 09:58:41 -0500, "lorz" wrote: >I must have missed this original thread. Why do you say not to buy from >Amazon? I have bought many books and games from them and have had the best >service ever not to mention saving big $$$. >Let me know please. >Lorene I'll copy Neil's post out for you, Lorene: apparently this is not general knowledge, but Neil is our resident Computer Expert out there, so I value his opinion in this: >>Neil Franklin wrote: I am taking part in the boycott against them. What lead to that? Unfair business practices. To be more precise: missusing law to get rid competitors. More precice: to force competitors to make their offers less attractive. Amazon invented a technique they call "one click ordering", which allows (pre-registered) customers to order by clicking on an single button. Other book sellers thought this was a nifty idea and adopted the same practice. This is a nice case of competition working to make life better for customers. But Amazon decided they did not like others sites improving, so they took out an patent on their method and then sued the others. Apparently the court accepted this suit. So now all others have to make their sites less friendly to use. Once again customers lose to bad business behaviour. I can't stop the law allowing itsself to be abused (patent law by the book only allows patenting of implementations (that is the mechanism implementing the web site) not of appearence (user interface). But I can help punish Amazon there where it hurts: their bottom line. So I send you (and others here) this post: do not buy from Amazon. I have also deleted my account there. In future I will either go to http://www.barnesandnoble.com/ (the shop who lost in the court case) or to http://www.fatbrain.com/. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: 29 Dec 1999 18:03:00 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 48 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6ubt79of23.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Gunnar Ljungstrand writes: > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > [snipped, ´cause my ISP won´t let me post otherwise] Too bigger quote?. Yes, they don't like that (it drives up network traffic, for which they are paying the bill :-)). Of course one should only quote those parts of an post that one is responding to :-). > > So I send you (and others here) this post: do not buy from Amazon. > > I have also stopped buying from them, because of this, and will be > deleting my account. > > However, it might get their attention more if you not only boycott them, > but rather order something, and then cancel your order, *politely* > explaining to them why you are doing so. Well actually I went to the "modify account" page and intended to a) delete my account, and b) put a message into whatever "comment" field I found. Actually there was not "delete account" button there. So I mailed them to postmaster@amazon.com (there was no other email address on the page either) and in that mail told them why I was leaving. This resulted in an 5-7 mails discussion with orders@amazon.com in which I gave them the reasons. > And BTW, the entire URL for /. is http://www.slashdot.org http://slashdot.org/ also works. At least that is what I have in my bookmarks (http://neil.franklin.ch/Links/) and click on to go there. > Cool place. News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters. Yes. Good place to keep updated on what is happening on the net and in technology. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 18:51:55 +0100 Organization: Telenordia Lines: 25 Message-ID: <386A4A3B.122DB44E@algonet.se> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> <6ubt79of23.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: sdu231-239.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: cubacola.tninet.se 946489917 20313 195.163.239.231 (29 Dec 1999 17:51:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Dec 1999 17:51:57 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: sv,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newsfeed.tli.de!news.algonet.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > Of course one should only quote those parts of an post that one is > responding to :-). Indeed. > http://slashdot.org/ also works. At least that is what I have in my > bookmarks (http://neil.franklin.ch/Links/) and click on to go there. Yeah, of course it does, tho my bookmark has the www. (I was pretty tired last night.) x-| > Neil Franklin See you out there... /Gunnar ---------------------------------------- Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity ---------------------------------------- ###### From: "Kirsten Rowe" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2000 14:51:35 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> <6ubt79of23.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-MUC.ecrc.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:29300 It seems to me that any Internet site can implement any ordering process they want - they probably just have to name it something other than 1-click, right? Please don't leave out information or pass on misinformation. The fact is - if you want to boycott someone - all on-line book mega warehouses are ruining the little guy downtown. That's what stinks about Amazon and B&N. B&N just lost the fight to buy Ingram Book Co. (the largest book distributor in the country) and therefore dictate what bookstores get what books when. The FTC put a stop to that thank God. Companies protecting their little catch phrases is perfectly above board. ###### Message-ID: <3870025C.54BB485A@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial.pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.pipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pipex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> <6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> <6ubt79of23.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2000 01:56:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp33.ts3-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:56:10 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!EU.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:29312 Kirsten Rowe wrote: > > It seems to me that any Internet site can implement any ordering process > they want - they probably just have to name it something other than 1-click, > right? Please don't leave out information or pass on misinformation. > Companies protecting their little catch phrases is perfectly above board. It is not the catch phrase they are sueing over. It is the "technology" No other website is supposed to be able to remember a user's credit card number which means if Amazon has their way ordering online will not be allowed to become easier. Patents like this really slow down the level of advancement of technology. Stuff like this goes on everyday and http://www.slashdot.org carries most of these crazy patent news stories. You should check it out under the patents pending topic. There really is some crazy shit that companies patent and sue over. Somebody in the US patent office needs to be slapped for approving these things in the first place. -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Amazon, don't do it (was Re: B.D. Yager - Operation Target Results) Date: 05 Jan 2000 20:25:01 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 64 Message-ID: <6uln64fhiq.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <77p84.2310$_n6.816693@homer.alpha.net> <386243c6.3581824@news.dial. pipex.com> <3865e73f.3311373@news.dial.p ipex.com> <38677691.1794015@news.dial.pi pex.com> <38678c4b.1169847@news.dial.pipex.com> < 6uaemw2ao7.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38692351.F73373B0@algonet.se> <6ubt79of23 .fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3870025C.54BB485A@vi si.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 947100303 476 10.0.3.2 (5 Jan 2000 19:25:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Jan 2000 19:25:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:29434 John Garrison writes: > > Kirsten Rowe wrote: > > > > It seems to me that any Internet site can implement any ordering process > > they want - they probably just have to name it something other than 1-click, > > right? Nope. Amazon sued N&N for _patent_ violation, not _trademark_ violation. At least that is what the email* I got from Amazon said (and I intend to believe them on what they claim they are suing for). * reply to my mail that they should delete me from their database (their Website has no mechanism for doing this), in which I also gave the reason why I am leaving them. > Please don't leave out information or pass on misinformation. It seems that you have become the victim of missinformation spread by someone else. Most likely someone who does not understand the difference of patents (which give an exclusive right to use/license a technology) and trademarks (which give exclusive right to use an name). > > Companies protecting their little catch phrases is perfectly above board. That is above board. But that is not what Amazon is doing. > allowed to become easier. Patents like this really slow down the level > of advancement of technology. Patents usually harm society more than they help it. There again, what elso do you expect from an law which was originally invented by Henry VIII to reward one of his cronnies and then pushed by lawyers for whatever they could get out of it for their cients? > http://www.slashdot.org carries most of these crazy patent news > stories. I very good site for them. I second the recommendation. Also good for the entire privacy on the net discussion. And censorship. > some crazy shit that companies patent and sue over. Somebody in the US > patent office needs to be slapped for approving these things in the > first place. No. Not the USPTO (U.S. Patent and Trademark Ofiice). Rather the braindead lawmakers that wrote the idiotic "software" (= laws) the USPTO has to run and are not ammending them. These laws require the USPTO to register any patent*. Proving it unmerited is the business of the first person to be unjustly sued on it. Couple this with the cost of gaining justice in the U.S. and you have a recipy for desaster. * exeption perpetum mobile devices, these are not allowed to be registered. This law was specially made to protect the USPTO from a flood of such applications about 100 years ago. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/