From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 00:27:40 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 63 Message-ID: <839svm$b85$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.dc.ae.a5 X-Server-Date: 16 Dec 1999 05:23:02 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail I was not here for the war - nor have I bothered to read most of the posts involved (because I'm sure I've read, maybe even written, identical posts in the past). When I read Claire's post to Trish I took a look at the listserv for the inquiring skeptics who posted the results of their encounters with alt.out-of-body. Ours was a poor review. I would like to mention that they have the advantage of being a fully moderated group - we don't have the advantage of locking out undesirable posts. I'll also mention that we are a group of experimenters. This type of experimentation will often produce over zealous posts as well as individuals who will endeavor to protect their "territory" when confronted. I've been guilty of this myself in the past. We have to keep in mind that OBE is NOT something that can be easily reproduced with accurate results. There is no reason to get upset when someone confronts us on this. Getting upset about this type of demand indicates a clear lack of personal discipline - and if you don't have control of your emotions, then you certainly will have no control during your non-physical experiences because the first step out of the physical is into the realm of emotion. The thing that really caught my attention is that they defended their position that they simply asked for "evidence" and not "proof". They seem to want "evidence" for "leaving the body". I warn alt.out-of-body that you will not be able to provide this type of evidence, so PLEASE don't even entertain this request. OBE is not a function of being "out of the body". It is a function of awareness. "OBE" is an incorrect term as far as I'm concerned. For any skeptic who may be reading this: I must admit that many claims to "OBE" are feeble - that is why I prefer to call it an "Out Of Physical Experience". It *IS* a journey into consciousness, for me, and not necessarily an "out-of-body" experience as so many would expect us to believe if we had not experienced it ourselves. This is not to say that it has less value for the individual than the concept that "OBE" ever offered - it is simply a more realistic label for a very real (albeit, fluid) experience. One should also keep in mind that it is also an individually developed talent. I personally cannot run a mile in 4 minutes. I've never met anyone who could. But I'm told that it has been done. It's not worth my time and effort to discover if that is true or not - so I don't bother trying because it isn't worth anything to me. But the expansion of conscious is worth something to me - it's worth something to all of mankind. So I continue to explore - for my benefit - for your benefit - and the benefit of future inhabitants of physical bodies as well as the Spirit which brought us into being. You may be surprised to learn that many of us don't believe in the "paranormal". We simply believe in the "normal" that has yet to be revealed - such as the elusive 4 minute mile (which may or may not have been achieved by highly developed individuals). Many people run - but very few run a mile in 4 minutes. Many people make the shift in consciousness - but very few are capable of the personal discipline required to see things as they really are. Same difference. If you want evidence, I suggest you do some research on Christian mystics - you will find plenty of evidence. Read up on Padre Pio. By the way, if I *COULD* run a 4 minute mile... I wouldn't bother trying to prove it to every skeptic that came along. There is no value in it for me. By the same token, I don't leave the physical for the purpose of physical gain. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:21:02 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 20 Message-ID: <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.dc.ac.36 X-Server-Date: 16 Dec 1999 12:16:24 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newsmaster-01.vbs.at!newsrouter.chello.at!news-MUC.ecrc.net!nntp.abs.net!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca>... >So you're stating that such things as astral travel, spirit possesion, >and the union of disembodied souls are hogwash without evidence... well, >you're not going to make a lot of friends here with that attitude, but >welcome to the real world. First of all, I did not say that these things are "hogwash". My point is that some of the terminology used to discuss these matters may be incorrect or misleading. Secondly, the term "hogwash" is offensive and is "evidence" of an abusive personality. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 11:18:46 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 12 Message-ID: <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.dc.ac.a1 X-Server-Date: 16 Dec 1999 16:09:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail John Garrison wrote in message <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net>... >My suggestion is to killfile them. Good suggestion. Bart ###### Message-ID: <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:23:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp08.ts1-4.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 07:23:06 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Bart wrote: > > Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca>... > > >So you're stating that such things as astral travel, spirit possesion, > >and the union of disembodied souls are hogwash without evidence... well, > >you're not going to make a lot of friends here with that attitude, but > >welcome to the real world. > > First of all, I did not say that these things are "hogwash". My point is > that some of the terminology used to discuss these matters may be incorrect > or misleading. > Actually I think we have clarified it to these guys on more the enough occasions. They continually take what we say out of context and repeat the same tired old demands. Although I love a good argument, these guys do not have the common sense to carry it out in a respectful or intelligent manner. All the critical thinking in the world can't help people that obviously can't read :) My suggestion is to killfile them. -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### From: John M Price PhD Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> Organization: his very own desk! X-Connection: C-Ker-mit 5A(191) 32 bit for OS/2 (usually) X-Operating-System: OS/2 - Warped of course. X-Clamation: Whoa, dogs! X-Hale: only. X-PGP-Key: ftp://ftp.calweb.com/users/j/jmprice/pgp-key-john-m-price User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980818 ("Laura") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.0-STABLE (i386)) NNTP-Posting-Host: web1.calweb.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: web1.calweb.com Message-ID: <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com> Date: 16 Dec 1999 14:19:54 -0800 X-Trace: 16 Dec 1999 14:19:54 -0800, web1.calweb.com Lines: 31 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.calweb.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.unisource.nl!news1.kpn.net!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!calwebnntp!calwebnnrp!web1.calweb.com!jmprice In alt.out-of-body article <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> Bart wrote: : John Garrison wrote in message <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net>... :>My suggestion is to killfile them. : Good suggestion. For all the ostriches and bugblatter beasts, sure. Let's not have any challenging ideas. Thay make us think, and that hurts our heads. -- John M. Price, PhD jmprice@calweb.com Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP! Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683 Syndicate Section III - Number 1 It is not merely that I dislike, distrust and disbelieve anyone who seeks political office. I would extend privacy rights even to politicians were it not for two countervailing circumstances. First, they themselves violate privacy rights wholesale. They regulate virtually everything that peaceful people can do behind closed doors, from taking drugs to having sex. It is elitist hypocrisy for them to demand the privacy rights that they routinely deny to ordinary people. If a politician wishes me to respect his personal life, then he needs to respect mine. - Wendy McElroy ##### From: "rbwalton" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 18:47:44 -0800 Organization: Smart Lines: 46 Sender: rbwalton@freewwweb.com@*@1cust51.tnt35.sfo3.da.uu.net Message-ID: <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust51.tnt35.sfo3.da.uu.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news.idt.net!attbtf!attmt2!ip.att.net!news.smartworld.net!not-for-mail Hey Bart. . . I though you said you were not here for the war. . . :^) Welcome to it. . . -- Richard Out of Body FAQ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe-faq.html I have two ISP's with inconsistent news servers. If you really want to make sure I see your response, Email direct is best. Thanks. Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ Join over one million searching for Intelligent Life in the Universe at home http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com Bart wrote in message news:83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca>... > > >So you're stating that such things as astral travel, spirit possesion, > >and the union of disembodied souls are hogwash without evidence... well, > >you're not going to make a lot of friends here with that attitude, but > >welcome to the real world. > > > First of all, I did not say that these things are "hogwash". My point is > that some of the terminology used to discuss these matters may be incorrect > or misleading. > > Secondly, the term "hogwash" is offensive and is "evidence" of an abusive > personality. > > Bart > > > ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:59:59 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 12 Message-ID: <83cc78$ovo$1@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.dc.ad.38 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 1999 03:55:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail rbwalton wrote in message <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net>... >Hey Bart. . . I though you said you were not here for the war. . . >:^) Welcome to it. . . I thought if I kept my posts really small, nobody would notice :-) Bart ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /K49oE6nRDvuxed+KIVUR8TvlSPkZPEJJwYF0SnKGbrSA7co7NqQlUO6Panr5xCo9HXZGhYgT4WA!Q5hVlq77ykTUnWax5Sz1cgEdWwzcmKhO+1wZ798aJKoh0mkFglv85o6YSj/Gmzaqup02JeLE X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:40:47 GMT Distribution: world Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:40:47 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail John M Price PhD wrote in message <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com>... >In alt.out-of-body article <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> Bart wrote: > >: John Garrison wrote in message <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net>... > >:>My suggestion is to killfile them. > >: Good suggestion. > > >For all the ostriches and bugblatter beasts, sure. Let's not have any >challenging ideas. Thay make us think, and that hurts our heads. > > >-- >John M. Price, PhD jmprice@calweb.com >Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP! [Translation: Stop picking on my friend!] ###### From: "Paul gate" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 03:09:07 -0000 Organization: UUNET Lines: 57 Message-ID: <83c9ci$su$1@lure.pipex.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: userca79.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 945400018 926 62.188.150.147 (17 Dec 1999 03:06:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 1999 03:06:58 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca>... >> From: "Bart" >> > > > >> >> >>The thing that really caught my attention is that they defended their >>position that they simply asked for "evidence" and not "proof". They seem >>to want "evidence" for "leaving the body". I warn alt.out-of-body that you >>will not be able to provide this type of evidence, so PLEASE don't even >>entertain this request. OBE is not a function of being "out of the body". >>It is a function of awareness. "OBE" is an incorrect term as far as I'm >>concerned. > > >So you're stating that such things as astral travel, spirit possesion, >and the union of disembodied souls are hogwash without evidence ... well, Couldn`t you have rephrased that? For instance "So you're stating that there is no physical evidence for such things as astral travel, spirit posession and the union of disembodied souls?" I can`t see what you hope to gain by intimating, that people are idiots. (people who believe hogwash are generaly regarded as foolish) If you take as read, that these people (me included) are not outright liars Then they each have "data",about the phenomena, in their own experiences that you do not have access to. You should be attempting to collect as much of this data as you can, not attempting continious one-up-manship. Either you are interested in what these people have to say or you are not If you are interested only in objective physical evidence,that the experience is of something "real" then this question has already been answered.(it isn`t available at present) I myself would be perfectly happy to try to furnish you with this, however sadly, i`m not capable (ten - 15 spontaneous , uneventfull, experiences in ten years) Others here, who seem to have more control over the experience do not seem at all interested in your challenge..Model that in any way you want..whatever their reasons, it means that, if what you were looking for were a bold claim/s followed by a demonstration /s, then you have failed. Of course if your intentions were simply to state your perspective on their experiences, and then insult them when they describe their reasons for having another perspective, then the experiment was a blinding success.. Well done ..your noble prize is in the post. ###### Message-ID: <385961FB.C1C12A61@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:04:43 +1100 From: Craig Shillington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <839svm$b85$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.12 X-Trace: 17 Dec 1999 11:41:12 +1000, 203.87.38.12 Lines: 98 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!grolier!uunet!ams.uu.net!uunet!zur.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.12 Hi Bart. > I was not here for the war - nor have I bothered to read most of the posts > involved (because I'm sure I've read, maybe even written, identical posts in > the past). When I read Claire's post to Trish I took a look at the listserv > for the inquiring skeptics who posted the results of their encounters with > alt.out-of-body. Ours was a poor review. I think this is mainly due to people not understanding what is happening to them while they are OOB. I am referring mainly to the *test* that has been put forward here. This test lacks any understanding of the mechanics of the OOB state, and as such is not feasible, IMO. There were a few people posting replies stating this, but those posts were simply ignored. The rest of the posts were pretty well from others in this group who maybe didn't understand that the test wouldn't provide any evidence anyway, but who felt that if they could get OOB on a regular basis, they could easily do the test. Again, lack of understanding caused a reaction to take place and the rest is history. I have simply kill filed most of those original posters as the negativity in the group was starting to rub off on me at that stage. Now, the group seem to be returning to some sort of normality again :-) > I would like to mention that they have the advantage of being a fully > moderated group - we don't have the advantage of locking out undesirable > posts. I really don't like the idea of an 'edited' group. I like the fact that anyone can come here and state an opinion. I think that is one of the better parts of this group. It only doesn't work when we have others dictation the *facts* to us, and vice versa. > I'll also mention that we are a group of experimenters. This type of > experimentation will often produce over zealous posts as well as individuals > who will endeavor to protect their "territory" when confronted. I've been > guilty of this myself in the past. > > We have to keep in mind that OBE is NOT something that can be easily > reproduced with accurate results. There is no reason to get upset when > someone confronts us on this. Getting upset about this type of demand > indicates a clear lack of personal discipline - and if you don't have > control of your emotions, then you certainly will have no control during > your non-physical experiences because the first step out of the physical is > into the realm of emotion. Yes, a very good point. > The thing that really caught my attention is that they defended their > position that they simply asked for "evidence" and not "proof". They seem > to want "evidence" for "leaving the body". I warn alt.out-of-body that you > will not be able to provide this type of evidence, so PLEASE don't even > entertain this request. OBE is not a function of being "out of the body". > It is a function of awareness. "OBE" is an incorrect term as far as I'm > concerned. > > For any skeptic who may be reading this: I must admit that many claims to > "OBE" are feeble - that is why I prefer to call it an "Out Of Physical > Experience". It *IS* a journey into consciousness, for me, and not > necessarily an "out-of-body" experience as so many would expect us to > believe if we had not experienced it ourselves. This is not to say that it > has less value for the individual than the concept that "OBE" ever offered - > it is simply a more realistic label for a very real (albeit, fluid) > experience. One should also keep in mind that it is also an individually > developed talent. I personally cannot run a mile in 4 minutes. I've never > met anyone who could. But I'm told that it has been done. It's not worth > my time and effort to discover if that is true or not - so I don't bother > trying because it isn't worth anything to me. But the expansion of > conscious is worth something to me - it's worth something to all of mankind. > So I continue to explore - for my benefit - for your benefit - and the > benefit of future inhabitants of physical bodies as well as the Spirit which > brought us into being. You may be surprised to learn that many of us don't > believe in the "paranormal". We simply believe in the "normal" that has yet > to be revealed - such as the elusive 4 minute mile (which may or may not > have been achieved by highly developed individuals). Many people run - but > very few run a mile in 4 minutes. Many people make the shift in > consciousness - but very few are capable of the personal discipline required > to see things as they really are. Same difference. If you want evidence, I > suggest you do some research on Christian mystics - you will find plenty of > evidence. Read up on Padre Pio. By the way, if I *COULD* run a 4 minute > mile... I wouldn't bother trying to prove it to every skeptic that came > along. There is no value in it for me. By the same token, I don't leave > the physical for the purpose of physical gain. That probably fell on deaf ears Bart, but I agree totally with what you are saying. Don't go to too much bother responding to these guys, it simply isn't worth the trouble, sadly. All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: 17 Dec 1999 23:06:18 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 69 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uzov9w7c5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 John M Price PhD writes: > > In alt.out-of-body article <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> Bart wrote: > > : John Garrison wrote in message <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net>... > > :>My suggestion is to killfile them. > : Good suggestion. A very good suggestion. I second it. I have done so with GH and ... > For all the ostriches and bugblatter beasts, sure. Hmmm, this guy believes in bugblatter beasts? Thats supposed to be skeptic? :-) > Let's not have any > challenging ideas. Nope. Lets not have any closed minded skeptic dogmatics. Skeptic : Scientist = Fundamentalist : Christian. ... I am adding the other one *PLONK* You have entered my killfile as member #5. There you will meet: #1 Koos Nolst Trenite, scientology spammer (crossposts his ravings into a.oob and over 10 others) #2 Arthur T. Murray, repeatedly posts his favourite toy research project into an computer history group (crossposted to 4 others) #3 Michael Martin, repeatedly posts his delusions of sainthood into a.oob (and crossposted to 4 others) and #4 you friend Garrison Hilliard from here in a.oob Wellcome your new neighbors. You are fitting for them. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: "dorothy dunne" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:35:43 -0800 Lines: 70 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1071.bossig.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1071.bossig.com Message-ID: <3859d6ab@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 17 Dec 1999 00:22:35 -0600, sanduser1071.bossig.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!news-master.service.talkway.com!news-out.newszilla.com!nntp-in.newszilla.com!nntp-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser1071.bossig.com John and Bart, I have copied (at the bottom) for your reading pleasure, Mr. H's unprovoked diatribe that started this "war". John Garrison wrote in message news:3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net... > Bart wrote: > > > > Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca>... > > > > >So you're stating that such things as astral travel, spirit possesion, > > >and the union of disembodied souls are hogwash without evidence... well, > > >you're not going to make a lot of friends here with that attitude, but > > >welcome to the real world. > > > > First of all, I did not say that these things are "hogwash". My point is > > that some of the terminology used to discuss these matters may be incorrect > > or misleading. No, he doesn't think they're "hogwash" - he thinks they're "garbage". (See below) > Actually I think we have clarified it to these guys on more the enough > occasions. They continually take what we say out of context and repeat > the same tired old demands. Although I love a good argument, these guys > do not have the common sense to carry it out in a respectful or > intelligent manner. All the critical thinking in the world can't help > people that obviously can't read :) My suggestion is to killfile them. > > -- > http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. Garrison Hilliard wrote: both earthbound spirits and ghosts are > fictional things, made-up woo-woo that is only given credence by the fact > that so many weak-minded individuals believe in such paranormal bullcrap. > You think otherwise? Good; there's a guy called James Randi who's > just dying to pay out a million bucks for a controlled demonstration of > the paranormal! You say you don't trust Randi? Then why don't you try for > some of the other big cash prizes, like the Oz Skeptic's, CSICOP's, and > ASKE's just waiting for a paranormal feat to be performed under controlled > circumstances? Could it be that you actually know that your beliefs are > garbage, that you know that you and your peers are a lowly bunch of > maggots wallowing in the muck and keeping your delusions alive by > swallowing each other's crap? Is that the answer? > > I think it is. BTW, I had to break my resolve not to involve myself further; but I couldn't let Mr. H. get away with his continual misrepresentations of his true character. But, perhaps....he's had a change of heart?? In that case, if he will apologize to the members of this NG and post a suitable mea culpa in his own skeptic NG, I won't quote his nasty little post again. Once again, I'll say that I, for one, am pretty sick of this war with the skeptics, will be most glad when it is finally over and done with and will make no posts on the topic in general - with the caveat that if I continue to see Mr. H. presenting a false picture to newbies and recently returning veterans, that I will not hesitate to set the record straight. Regards, Dorothy ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 07:43:20 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news-out.transit.remarq.com.MISMATCH!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Ah, well, maybe it's time for me, you, Craig and the Original Ken to take a break and let the newly arrived have their say. I know I'm taking a break. I would enjoy it more if there were more on-topic posts but I can't say I have anything to contribute right now. Besides, it's just possible *they are* here for the war. Anybody else been praying?;-) Kind of coincidental don't you think Trish and Bart show up at the same time. Of course, it's just a coincidence because we can't prove scientifically that they are here as "relief" for the the rest of us. So many damn coincidences in this truly scientific world, no? Claire rbwalton wrote in message <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net>... >Hey Bart. . . I though you said you were not here for the war. . . >:^) Welcome to it. . . > > >-- >Richard >Out of Body FAQ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe-faq.html >I have two ISP's with inconsistent news servers. If you really want to make >sure I see your response, Email direct is best. Thanks. >Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ > >Join over one million searching for Intelligent Life in the Universe at home >http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ >To respond, delete #nospam# >rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com > > > > > >Bart wrote in message >news:83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... >> >> Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca>... >> >> >So you're stating that such things as astral travel, spirit possesion, >> >and the union of disembodied souls are hogwash without evidence... well, >> >you're not going to make a lot of friends here with that attitude, but >> >welcome to the real world. >> >> >> First of all, I did not say that these things are "hogwash". My point is >> that some of the terminology used to discuss these matters may be >incorrect >> or misleading. >> >> Secondly, the term "hogwash" is offensive and is "evidence" of an abusive >> personality. >> >> Bart >> >> >> > > > ###### From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:18:20 -0600 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 11 Message-ID: <83dnoc$tk4$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: baron.mayo.edu X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 945447500 30340 129.176.218.141 (17 Dec 1999 16:18:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 1999 16:18:20 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message news:83dc82> > Okee-dokee, here's an on-topic post in accordance with the newsgroup > charter... please provide evidence that oobe's are anything > other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies. > Got any bread? ###### From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:19:46 -0600 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 10 Message-ID: <83dnr0$tlc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <83dlld$4fa$9@news.efn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: baron.mayo.edu X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 945447584 30380 129.176.218.141 (17 Dec 1999 16:19:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Dec 1999 16:19:44 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message > You are... can you please provide evidence that oobe's are anything > other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies? > > (And I'm not answering Trish because she didn't answer me) Got any bread ###### Message-ID: <385A37B7.B420C401@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com> <3859ca51_2@news.calweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:15:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp37.ts6-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:15:04 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail > Actualy, I was calling the likes of you close minded idiots who wish to > live in their self deluded fairyland. > You were saying something about not being insulting? -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### Message-ID: <385A39A9.72F8D820@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 45 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:23:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp37.ts6-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 08:23:22 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail John M Price PhD wrote: > For all the ostriches and bugblatter beasts, sure. Let's not have any > challenging ideas. Thay make us think, and that hurts our heads. But you are not presenting challenging ideas you are just trolling. If you will pretend for a minute that OBE exists then you will have to see that it is a complex artform. One that none of us here has likely mastered. How then can we provide you with proof and or evidence? What you are doing is the equivalent of asking high school phsyics students to prove relativity. Maybe one day if you let us explore this phenomenon in peace instead of wasting our time, energy and discussion powers on you, then we will have proof. At which point I am sure you will hear about it. When Einstein was working on Relativity he wouldn't have been to appreciative if I were to pop in there everyday two or three times a day and say "prove we can't go faster than light" "prove we can't go faster than light" He would say to me "John shut up it is only a theory right now, I am working on the math at this moment, please let me work" Then if I were you I would say "Prove we can't go faster than light" "Prove we can't go faster than light" And Einstein, having to put up with me would never complete relativity while I was there. I was a distraction from the scientific process. That is what you are to us, a distraction from the exploration of the very truths you want. I beg you to use your "Critical Thinking" skills to comprehend this. We need to be left alone in order to once again be a productive group. If you want to lurk and see where it is going, then I don't think any of us would mind. Just do not troll. -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /ba9QfLvH3pbUaYlsyNgKlxntxihL/wLiZsib70dGBgW/I5P9BI/Umfq9IT5/jxIkEe7eO+lPSme!o03UtFH3xCvHDmLI0vCW0m24UXQNWEX346nTXpIFr66N5i2S50CEh8pxbt2TlPUkol+ZJf4= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:43:01 GMT Distribution: world Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 13:43:01 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.enteract.com!chicago-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org>... >> From: "claire" >> >>Ah, well, maybe it's time for me, you, Craig and the Original Ken to take a >>break and let the newly arrived have their say. I know I'm taking a break. > >Have a happy running away. Oh I'm sure Claire is just shaking in her keds over that one! >>I >>would enjoy it more if there were more on-topic posts but I can't say I have >>anything to contribute right now. > >Okee-dokee, here's an on-topic post in accordance with the newsgroup >charter... please provide evidence that oobe's are anything >other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies. > Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator ... (What's wrong ... no more Earl Curley for you and your friends to amuse?) Trish ###### Message-ID: <385A5429.C8D9BA6F@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83djka$4fa$2@news.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 15:16:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp37.ts6-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 10:16:25 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote: > > > From: "Trish" > >> > >>Okee-dokee, here's an on-topic post in accordance with the newsgroup > >>charter... please provide evidence that oobe's are anything > >>other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies. > >> > > > > > >Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator ... > > And this is a valid reply to my request in what way? Whose avoiding questions now Garrison? Why not answer Trish? -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### Message-ID: <385A5FB2.15E0A3F1@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83dlld$4fa$9@news.efn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:05:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp37.ts6-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 11:05:38 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail > > You are... can you please provide evidence that oobe's are anything > other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies? NO I cannot provide evidence that oobe's are anything other than delusions, hallucinations or outright lies. I can barely cause them to happen when I want, as most people in here. We are not the experts in the field that you seek. We are merely "explorers" if you will. We are all trying to develop the technique and mental dicipline that would be required to oobe on demand. We cannot do that with you distrubing our group. If and when we can provide such proof I am sure the world will know about it. For now will you please go away and leave us to our studies? -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### Message-ID: <385A6FFF.433E893A@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org> <83dnoc$tk4$1@tribune.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 17:15:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp21.ts4-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 12:15:11 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Mark Baron wrote: > > Garrison Hilliard wrote in message news:83dc82> > > Okee-dokee, here's an on-topic post in accordance with the newsgroup > > charter... please provide evidence that oobe's are anything > > other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies. > > > > Got any bread? No, but unlike the shopkeeper, I DO have some nails. And they have Garrison written all over them :) -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### From: "rbwalton" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:31:47 -0800 Organization: Smart Lines: 26 Sender: rbwalton@freewwweb.com@*@1cust216.tnt2.scl1.da.uu.net Message-ID: <83ereb$cf8$1@news.smartworld.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust216.tnt2.scl1.da.uu.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!attmtf!attmt2!ip.att.net!news.smartworld.net!not-for-mail Some one should take a break. Now all of a sudden there are too many posts to keep up with again. Even more than with the skeptic war. And we are starting to outnumber them. :^) Richard claire wrote in message news:s5kbgifsqrs177@corp.supernews.com... > Ah, well, maybe it's time for me, you, Craig and the Original Ken to take a > break and let the newly arrived have their say. I know I'm taking a break. I > Claire > > > rbwalton wrote in message <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net>... > >Hey Bart. . . I though you said you were not here for the war. . . > >:^) Welcome to it. . . > > > > > >-- > >Richard > >Out of Body FAQ http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe-faq.html ###### Message-ID: <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:08:35 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.131.176.150 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 945483097 204.131.176.150 (Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:11:37 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:11:37 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!coop.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail I'm actually just hoping a pied piper will show up and lead these guys off somewhere. Fleischman and Pons where are you when we need you? Hahahaha. You know at least when Sco....Sco.....Oh, you know, SH was posting, he was somewhat entertaining. A lunatic, but nevertheless entertaining. Ken claire wrote: > Ah, well, maybe it's time for me, you, Craig and the Original Ken to take a > break and let the newly arrived have their say. I know I'm taking a break. I > would enjoy it more if there were more on-topic posts but I can't say I have > anything to contribute right now. Besides, it's just possible *they are* > here for the war. Anybody else been praying?;-) Kind of coincidental don't > you think Trish and Bart show up at the same time. Of course, it's just a > coincidence because we can't prove scientifically that they are here as > "relief" for the the rest of us. So many damn coincidences in this truly > scientific world, no? > > Claire > ###### From: "Jerry Adams" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:04:57 -0800 Lines: 63 Message-ID: <83ets4$pqf$1@news.laserlink.net> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> <3859658a_3@news.calweb.com> <6uzov9w7c5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust2.tnt29.dfw5.da.uu.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news.laserlink.net!not-for-mail Bugblatters (if one must have monsters) are rather convenient as monsters go. ;) Neil Franklin wrote in message <6uzov9w7c5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... >John M Price PhD writes: >> >> In alt.out-of-body article <83b2re$f6a$1@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net> Bart a12@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >> >> : John Garrison wrote in message <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net>... >> >> :>My suggestion is to killfile them. >> : Good suggestion. > >A very good suggestion. I second it. I have done so with GH and ... > > >> For all the ostriches and bugblatter beasts, sure. > >Hmmm, this guy believes in bugblatter beasts? Thats supposed to be >skeptic? :-) > > >> Let's not have any >> challenging ideas. > >Nope. Lets not have any closed minded skeptic dogmatics. > >Skeptic : Scientist = Fundamentalist : Christian. > > >.. I am adding the other one > >*PLONK* > > >You have entered my killfile as member #5. > >There you will meet: > > >#1 Koos Nolst Trenite, scientology spammer (crossposts his ravings >into a.oob and over 10 others) > >#2 Arthur T. Murray, repeatedly posts his favourite toy research >project into an computer history group (crossposted to 4 others) > >#3 Michael Martin, repeatedly posts his delusions of sainthood >into a.oob (and crossposted to 4 others) > >and > >#4 you friend Garrison Hilliard from here in a.oob > > >Wellcome your new neighbors. You are fitting for them. > > >-- >Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:50:32 -0600 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 28 Message-ID: <83esnq$dg6$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <3859d6ab@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> <385aea3b_4@news.calweb.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rmtaccess59.mayo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 945485370 13830 172.22.175.69 (18 Dec 1999 02:49:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 1999 02:49:30 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail ---------- In article <385aea3b_4@news.calweb.com>, John M Price PhD wrote: > > Pardon me? This post did not appear in alt.out-of-body. It did. The dejanews link is provide below. If you do the full search it is the very first of this year. http://x29.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=542800683&CONTEXT=945484569.5824 83983&hitnum=128 -Mark > > -- > John M. Price, PhD jmprice@calweb.com > Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP! > Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. > Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683 > Syndicate Section III - Number 1 > > The intelligence of any discussion diminishes with the square of the > number of participants. > - Adam Walinsky > ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 20:52:19 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 11 Message-ID: <83eoup$9i0$1@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net> References: <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.dc.ac.3b X-Server-Date: 18 Dec 1999 01:44:57 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!colt.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.mindspring.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org>... >Okee-dokee, here's an on-topic post in accordance with the newsgroup >charter... please provide evidence that oobe's are anything >other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies. No.... ###### From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:14:09 -0600 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 10 Message-ID: <83eu42$e6e$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <3859d6ab@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> <385aea3b_4@news.calweb.com> <83esnq$dg6$1@tribune.mayo.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: rmtaccess59.mayo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 945486786 14542 172.22.175.69 (18 Dec 1999 03:13:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Dec 1999 03:13:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail > > http://x29.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=542800683&CONTEXT=945484569.5824 > 83983&hitnum=128 > Looks like the link didn't turn out on the post. You may have to copy and paste to your web browser to get the whole link. -Mark ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:21:25 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 11 Message-ID: <83eqlc$5cv$1@nntp6.atl.mindspring.net> References: <83dlld$4fa$9@news.efn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.dc.ac.3b X-Server-Date: 18 Dec 1999 02:14:04 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83dlld$4fa$9@news.efn.org>... >can you please provide evidence that oobe's are anything >other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies? No. Go away. ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 22:30:20 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <385AAB3B.637360F6@the.end.of.the.message> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Craig Shillington wrote in message <385AAB3B.637360F6@the.end.of.the.message>... Don't you go >away for too long now, okay? Promise. :-) > I'll be here, I just don't plan on posting much. Other activities are taking precedence and I'm not into posting stuff about skepticism. However, there may be some merit there, it's just not my thing. But, I will be watching with interest. Claire ###### From: gblack@ihug.co.nz (George Black) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 00:06:13 GMT Organization: The Internet Group (Hamilton) Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <945472150.965319@ham.ihug.co.nz> References: <83dc82$23f$1@news.efn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: ham.ihug.co.nz X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Cache-Post-Path: ham.ihug.co.nz!unknown@p35-max7.ham.ihug.co.nz X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ihug.co.nz!gblack In article , "Trish" wrote: > >Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator ... > >(What's wrong ... no more Earl Curley for you and your friends to amuse?) Why do you bring up ECG?? The man's dead and (in the main) forgotten. His Out of Body exploits were well reported in dejanews at the time. He didn't even get the sex of the 'target' right :-))) ###### Message-ID: <385AED35.206D27B3@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <3858DA06.753D1D46@visi.net> <3859d6ab@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> <385aea3b_4@news.calweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 02:09:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp28.ts1-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 21:09:23 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail John M Price PhD wrote: > > In alt.out-of-body article <3859d6ab@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> dorothy dunne wrote: > [snip] > > : Garrison Hilliard wrote: > > : both earthbound spirits and ghosts are > :> fictional things, made-up woo-woo that is only given credence by the fact > :> that so many weak-minded individuals believe in such paranormal bullcrap. > :> You think otherwise? Good; there's a guy called James Randi who's > :> just dying to pay out a million bucks for a controlled demonstration of > :> the paranormal! You say you don't trust Randi? Then why don't you try for > :> some of the other big cash prizes, like the Oz Skeptic's, CSICOP's, and > :> ASKE's just waiting for a paranormal feat to be performed under controlled > :> circumstances? Could it be that you actually know that your beliefs are > :> garbage, that you know that you and your peers are a lowly bunch of > :> maggots wallowing in the muck and keeping your delusions alive by > :> swallowing each other's crap? Is that the answer? > :> > :> I think it is. > > : BTW, I had to break my resolve not to involve myself further; but I couldn't > : let Mr. H. get away with his continual misrepresentations of his true > : character. But, perhaps....he's had a change of heart?? In that case, if he > : will apologize to the members of this NG > > Pardon me? This post did not appear in alt.out-of-body. > Yes it did. I posted the Deja.com link to it in one of the threads below. I can find it again if you would like. -- http://www.scinomaly.org : Science outside the norm. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83djka$4fa$2@news.efn.org> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Lines: 24 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: /K0ZEEzEvALIbcolAuZDEkFAoHhHWkmiTlc4YiL1NaxaAO7ChLRXMNrzf327kdGJ1O7AAp6NEiUH!YN2EUqLNFOEoSB2NRknalYn+tb1m52cIA/n7bsyk1HLVC9g8FDWcRePid0f8krRl8wrWLLra3Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:40:33 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:40:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Garrison Hilliard wrote in message <83djka$4fa$2@news.efn.org>... >> From: "Trish" >>> >>>Okee-dokee, here's an on-topic post in accordance with the newsgroup >>>charter... please provide evidence that oobe's are anything >>>other than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies. >>> >> >> >>Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator ... > >And this is a valid reply to my request in what way? Valid to measure the integrity of the original request. What's wrong? I thought it would be simple for you. It's a simple enough request. Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator. Trish ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <7nE64.1390$vt1.33565@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: /wLwTfX/i5oX9tivQ8zVA60aHVF22qua0hbPfQfI85+AXu/zYOl1nbIkHumycKn4sQcxIVS//vNe!W+rMc8ZRRsr4YEJ/HcZeRRRwV9Hd1L8FFgxoSug5fdfdD1UehszmaqIkBMDLHzAgnphEHvnkxA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:49:07 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 04:49:07 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail The Original Ken wrote in message <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com>... >I'm actually just hoping a pied piper will show up and lead these guys off >somewhere. Fleischman and Pons where are you when we need you? Hahahaha. > >You know at least when Sco....Sco.....Oh, you know, SH was posting, he was >somewhat entertaining. A lunatic, but nevertheless entertaining. > >Ken Sco .. sco .... oh what a blast from the past! Does anyone remember his e-mail address? I think we have a few guys here that might like to meet him. Trish ###### Message-ID: <385AAA1A.7274C20C@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:24:42 +1100 From: Craig Shillington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <83cc78$ovo$1@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.46 X-Trace: 18 Dec 1999 09:45:11 +1000, 203.87.38.46 Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!zur.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.46 Bart wrote: > > rbwalton wrote in message <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net>... > >Hey Bart. . . I though you said you were not here for the war. . . > >:^) Welcome to it. . . > > I thought if I kept my posts really small, nobody would notice :-) Ah, Bart, Quality .... not Quantity. :-) Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### Message-ID: <385AAB3B.637360F6@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 08:29:31 +1100 From: Craig Shillington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.46 X-Trace: 18 Dec 1999 09:45:19 +1000, 203.87.38.46 Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uunet!sea.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.46 claire wrote: > > Ah, well, maybe it's time for me, you, Craig and the Original Ken to take a > break and let the newly arrived have their say. I know I'm taking a break. I > would enjoy it more if there were more on-topic posts but I can't say I have > anything to contribute right now. Besides, it's just possible *they are* > here for the war. Anybody else been praying?;-) Kind of coincidental don't > you think Trish and Bart show up at the same time. Of course, it's just a > coincidence because we can't prove scientifically that they are here as > "relief" for the the rest of us. So many damn coincidences in this truly > scientific world, no? Nope, I will be staying on. Can't help it Claire, I will not let someone else direct my life indirectly. :-) I will use their negativity for the better of myself. Anyway, it's a good way to practise self control and will power and I need to give up smoking, so it helps me. ;-) At any rate, I want to be here when they sink to the lowest they can go. I've been watching them struggling in that mud for a while now, shouldn't take much longer. :-) Don't you go away for too long now, okay? Promise. :-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### Message-ID: <385BA48F.C9D8FCA7@skeptics.org> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83djka$4fa$2@news.efn.org> <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <385b812e_1@news.calweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 86 Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 15:11:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp28.ts1-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 10:11:40 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail John M Price PhD wrote: > > In alt.out-of-body article <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Trish wrote: > > : Valid to measure the integrity of the original request. What's wrong? I > : thought it would be simple for you. It's a simple enough request. > > Only to the simple minded ... Then you should fit in here quite easily shouldn't you Mr. PhD? It takes a particularly small minded individual to get his jollies upsetting other people, to come into their gathering place and disrupt their believes shows a lack of respect the likes of which the world could do without. You claim to have a PhD and be such a great "critical thinker" yet you are to fucking stupid to know the meaning of terms such as "ethics" and "decency" Your whole pathetic life seems to be about making other people miserable. Well you had better pray to the god that you don't believe in that I never meet you in person my friend because I will show you the meaning of the term misery. We have asked you nicely to go away and to leave us alone or to contribute positively to our discussions yet you continue the slander and the name calling and the "better than thou" attitude, well I got news for you phd-boy not only are you not better than us, but are aren't better than the damn vermin that crawls the sewer! You are indeed on of the most worthless human being ever to walk the planet. If you really are a PhD then you ought to have the brains to know when you've pushed somebody to far, you ought to no better then to enrage someone who has been on medication for being suicidal at time and homicidal many more times. Right now I could care less about the law, about your FBI friends or about you. If you really are a PhD then you know how volatile a person like me can be! If you really are a PhD then you will rethink your plans, because it wouldn't be in your best interest to unleash the madness that burns within me. I came here looking for peace and love because the anger in my personal life was getting to be too much, because the hatred I was feeling was overpowering me, like it has so many times in the past. So many destructive times in the past. I came here looking for love and respect and all I found was more hatred and disrespect, if you are a fucking PhD then you will understand the feelings that are in me now and if you have one shred of human decency in that worthless good for nothing body of yours you will shut the hell up and let me find the peace I need to calm down. You assholes have just made it very dangerous for the real life people that are currently the target of my anger. You have just sent that anger to the next level, and whatever happens to them people is on your shoulders my friend. Because you have just unleashed the madness that has been called such names as "The Innovator of Violence" and "The greatest technical fighter alive" You mix the two of them my friend and you have one of the most dangerous individuals on the face of the planet today. Now I am going to ask you nicely one more time, to please leave this group and let me work through this, I don't have the anger control that the people here do, all I want is peace. If you really are a PhD you will understand and respect that. If you do not then I promise you I will report your actions to whatever dumbass gave you a degree in the first place. ###### [At this point massive killfiling of 20 flamerwares] ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83djka$4fa$2@news.efn.org> <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <385b812e_1@news.calweb.com> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Lines: 24 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /K0ZEDazPsZ1MUSr8MctfL/Oq5QWDL6xB96vIPp1f2xyMBkBHQTl2ZHLOE6xxUg0Q4X8X3LhUQnU!MTu7Dep0VrCYjKiPtbNUhipDzf7vHdQVrkQXCGSVgCHw2kP7uBJI6oJom4lTyDRiQGRWjajo3Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:43:58 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 22:43:59 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail John M Price PhD wrote in message <385b812e_1@news.calweb.com>... >In alt.out-of-body article <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Trish wrote: > >: Valid to measure the integrity of the original request. What's wrong? I >: thought it would be simple for you. It's a simple enough request. > >Only to the simple minded ... >: Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator. > > ... because you can't prove a negative. Ah, but here you trip up. Next time I recommended not unzipping your fly near the pirhana tank. I never asked for proof. I only asked for a little evidence. Trish ###### Message-ID: <385C8A53.4D902AA6@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com> <385BE26D.8E204B14@the.end.of.the.message> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:33:39 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.131.176.178 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 945588952 204.131.176.178 (Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:35:52 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:35:52 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Hi Craig, Emailing all our experiences sounds like a great idea, but you know, not to be a party pooper or anything, I just really have better things to do. :( I know, I know, I should join in the fun and all, but SH was really much more fun to poke fun at. These guys are just so damn boooooorrrrrriiiiinnnnngggg. Oh I do want to mention however that I did get one of my methods for OBE induction on the Quintessence of the loon page. That was pretty exciting. GH made fun of it and everything. Yesssss. It was a thrill being famous for a few seconds. Ken Craig Shillington wrote: > Hi Ken, > > > > I'm actually just hoping a pied piper will show up and lead these guys off > > somewhere. Fleischman and Pons where are you when we need you? Hahahaha. > > > > You know at least when Sco....Sco.....Oh, you know, SH was posting, he was > > somewhat entertaining. A lunatic, but nevertheless entertaining. > > Yeah, but look at what we had to do in the end to be rid of him. > Maybe something along those lines again ..........? Maybe every time > Hilliard asks for evidence, we should all email him our experiences > personally. ;-) That way he'll be getting all the evidence he can > read in his inbox every time he asks for it. I feel generous. ;-) I > wonder if GH has a web page with songs he's written on it. ;-) > > All the best > Craig > > -- > The sure way to make a thing impossible- > -is to think it so. --- Franklin > > To respond, delete _nospam_ > scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au > -- ###### Message-ID: <385BE26D.8E204B14@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 06:37:17 +1100 From: Craig Shillington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.18 X-Trace: 19 Dec 1999 08:02:10 +1000, 203.87.38.18 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!ams.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.18 Hi Ken, > > I'm actually just hoping a pied piper will show up and lead these guys off > somewhere. Fleischman and Pons where are you when we need you? Hahahaha. > > You know at least when Sco....Sco.....Oh, you know, SH was posting, he was > somewhat entertaining. A lunatic, but nevertheless entertaining. Yeah, but look at what we had to do in the end to be rid of him. Maybe something along those lines again ..........? Maybe every time Hilliard asks for evidence, we should all email him our experiences personally. ;-) That way he'll be getting all the evidence he can read in his inbox every time he asks for it. I feel generous. ;-) I wonder if GH has a web page with songs he's written on it. ;-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### Message-ID: <385BE2FA.93A92941@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 06:39:38 +1100 From: Craig Shillington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com> <7nE64.1390$vt1.33565@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.18 X-Trace: 19 Dec 1999 08:02:17 +1000, 203.87.38.18 Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!news3-muc.ecrc.net!news-MUC.ecrc.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!ams.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.18 Trish wrote: > Sco .. sco .... oh what a blast from the past! Does anyone remember his > e-mail address? I think we have a few guys here that might like to meet > him. ROTFLMAO@Trish. ;-) Hell, if these guys and scottie boy got together, they'd probably get on so well they wouldn't have time to post messages anymore. Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <83djka$4fa$2@news.efn.org> <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <385b812e_1@news.calweb.com> <385c5fdb_1@news.calweb.com> Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Lines: 49 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: +rTuhuy1hgi6rgLlKhUkyIvYR07MgqPUVpoyyK2npzlRFVRN/u1eOu/P4mHyFQxjvRZdl+EKK62R!5fnGH5O/0T9v3hl1KXTF0C7/5YGldZdZDT/ueoa5qeGfNX219CVEbPgfS5+/+dbSujuL98kp X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:18:15 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 15:18:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail John M Price PhD wrote in message <385c5fdb_1@news.calweb.com>... >In alt.out-of-body article Trish wrote: > >: John M Price PhD wrote in message <385b812e_1@news.calweb.com>... >:>In alt.out-of-body article <5fE64.1381$vt1.30734@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> >: Trish wrote: >:> >:>: Valid to measure the integrity of the original request. What's wrong? I >:>: thought it would be simple for you. It's a simple enough request. >:> >:>Only to the simple minded ... > >:>: Provide evidence that you are not a troll, a bully, and a manipulator. >:> >:> ... because you can't prove a negative. > > > >: Ah, but here you trip up. Next time I recommended not unzipping your >: fly near the pirhana tank. > >: I never asked for proof. I only asked for a little evidence. > >What is 'negative evidence? Then how can anyone provide evidence that an OBE is anything more than delusions, hallucinations, and lies? That in itself is negative. Tiptoe through the mine field all you want, the question still stands, and you can't answer it. Trish > >-- >John M. Price, PhD jmprice@calweb.com >Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP! > Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. >Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683 > Syndicate Section III - Number 1 > >"If you don't mind being called ignorent by someone who is well, ignorant, >then ok by me." > >[Paula Merritt, spelling flamer, message to Rachael/skeptic-list] > ###### Message-ID: <385DEADD.D75AF7A@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 19:37:49 +1100 From: Craig Shillington X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... References: <83abjd$c0t$1@News.Dal.Ca> <83al6o$3io$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <83c8gv$65c$1@news.smartworld.net> <385AECA3.96E5EF0B@privatei.com> <385BE26D.8E204B14@the.end.of.the.message> <385C8A53.4D902AA6@privatei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.70 X-Trace: 21 Dec 1999 10:20:11 +1000, 203.87.38.70 Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!nyc.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.70 Hi Ken, > Emailing all our experiences sounds like a great idea, but you know, not to be a > party pooper or anything, I just really have better things to do. :( I know, > I know, I should join in the fun and all, but SH was really much more fun to > poke fun at. These guys are just so damn boooooorrrrrriiiiinnnnngggg. Oh I do > want to mention however that I did get one of my methods for OBE induction on > the Quintessence of the loon page. That was pretty exciting. GH made fun of it > and everything. Yesssss. It was a thrill being famous for a few seconds. Well ..... I was sort of joking .... to a point. ;-) I could just see GH getting online to get his messages and having heaps of email to read, all of them related to people's experiences and providing individual evidence from the person sending the email. After all, that IS what he is asking for, evidence .... not proof. :-) My *hit* with my friend in the USA is evidence to me that there is something else apart from this physical existence, that IS evidence for me, so I'll gladly send my evidence for him to look over any time he asks me to. ;-) Not that I see any message from 'him' posted here, because I have him filtered (Ha, as if I never see messages from him. ;-}) But how frustrating it would be for him to get what he asked for. ;-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: aa3533@lcfn.org (Not Dorothy Dunne) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Regarding the Skeptic war... Date: 21 Dec 1999 02:18:42 GMT Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 16 Message-ID: <83mo22$5h8$1@news.efn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: garcia.efn.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!news.cmc.net!news.efn.org!not-for-mail > From: Craig Shillington >> want to mention however that I did get one of my methods for OBE induction on >> the Quintessence of the loon page. That was pretty exciting. GH made fun of > it >> and everything. Yesssss. It was a thrill being famous for a few seconds. > >Well ..... I was sort of joking .... to a point. ;-) I could just >see GH getting online to get his messages and having heaps of email >to read, all of them related to people's experiences and providing >individual evidence from the person sending the email. Too bad that I have absolutely nothing to do with the "Quintessence of the Loon" site, eh?