From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Lines: 107 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:13:20 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.141 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 944238066 156.46.129.141 (Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:21:06 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 10:21:06 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Hello again Julia! Your welcome, for the bouquet of spring flowers! I concede, and will discuss this on-post. I only wanted to keep it, well, unconfusing. (I am easily confused with multiple threads, as to whom said what!) I shall try... to concentrate! :) I shall snip you apart below, and comment on what hits me at the moment. We seem to be (initially anyway) coming from different angles of the discussion. That will work out. I was speaking more along the lines of the actual mechanics of reality, whereas if I read you correctly, you were being more poetic? Here goes.... Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com>... > > Possibly...ah, but.... I am a writer, as are you, and writers are >the professional creators of alternate realities. True. But they are fantasy realities for the enjoyment or stimulation of the reader. I personally believe we do dip from the pool of alternate realities, however we don't "create" them. Your "Klingon speaker" is still actually a part of this reality of ours. > So realities for other people can be created by a single individual, >although all writers are also aware of the actual risk of simultaneous >creation of their 'own' ideas by another writer. Pratchett calls it >Morphic Resonance. Ahh yes! This is the universal pool of possibilities which all creative people dip from! This happens with musicians quite frequently. (I are one.) :) Accepting the Universal Consciousness as a given... IMO it works like this: It's not that I sit down to create something, and you then "tap" into my works and recreate it at virtually the same time. It is rather... we both "dial in" to the same ISP (Interactive Scenario Provider) ... and interpret the perfected creation which is already there, as best we can using the tools which we have developed in this reality. And this is much like the problem of sight and identification while OOB. It must be interpreted by the part of us, (I call this our "ego"), which relates to this physical realm of ours. > But, now here is the query: > When I 'fly' in meditation to visit a friend on another continent >I arrive there at exactly the moment we had preagreed, allowing for >International time differences. I later write the email describing to >her exactly the image (eg brie on a plate) in her head at that moment. I am confused here, as to which "moment" you're speaking of. ? The moment of the visit...or the moment of the e-mail? > Are she and I creating a shared reality or, if as you say, "Time is >an illusion, a falsehood constructed merely for the benefit of the >human "ego", " then it must be a mutual human consciousness I am >tapping into. Well, aside from the fact that I can't help but believe in a Universal Consciousness ... I would say you're not creating a shared reality, but rather, you're sharing a created one! Let me clarify what I mean by "ego". This is the term that I give to that part of your consciousness which identifies itself as an individual being,...or the "Me" in you. The "I am" which looks back at you from the mirror. It is the final Editor in our waking consciousness. It must interpret and identify everything. It is programmed (by your Higher Self) to do so. It screams "Identify!" at everything that we experience, and if unfamiliar/or unable to do so, it will promptly substitute the impressions it receives for a similar one. If what you have experienced is in fact, a message for you... it has no qualms about being metaphorical,... as in some dreams which require interpretation for the message. > Then why do the things we encounter going obe or astrally >travelling surprise us so much? Who is creating them? In my opinion, the one surprised by this is that "Ego". The "me" who believes it is the center of the universe. The individual identity, is surprised that..."my gosh! Where did this come from! This is not what "I" am aware of!" And, who is creating them? Ahh yes,.. the age-old universal question! Your "Higher Self" is creating them. Your spirit/soul. That Upper part of you, who knows all about you. Knows why you are here to experience this. Has all the awareness of each of your past and future lives. Is most often your "angel" or "guide" while astral. The Higher self that sets your rules, your barriers, your challenges. Teaches you, guides you. Will give you knowledge that you seek (if you're ready for it), and permit, or deny you any experiences. I am looking forward, Julia, to these discussions... 'Till next time,... B.D. Yager ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Date: Fri, 03 Dec 1999 22:12:00 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 195 Message-ID: <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userat50.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 944256548 25463 62.188.137.153 (3 Dec 1999 21:29:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Dec 1999 21:29:08 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo2!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!grot.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 10:13:20 -0600, "B.D. Yager" wrote: > I was speaking more along the lines of the >actual mechanics of reality, whereas if I read you correctly, you were being >more poetic? Here goes.... Yes, that would be me. I never pretend to a 'scientific, analytical or engineering' turn of mind. As a trainee architect I failed all the Structures exams miserably, and I excelled in all the Theory and History exams. But I was heavily criticised for being unorthodox in my own designs... As a creative person, I couldn't see what was wrong with that! So as a poet and novelist I do tend to poetical imagery: "For all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world." Desiderata. > >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message... >>>> Possibly...ah, but.... I am a writer, as are you, and writers are >>the professional creators of alternate realities. > >True. But they are fantasy realities for the enjoyment or stimulation of >the reader. I personally believe we do dip from the pool of alternate >realities, however we don't "create" them. Your "Klingon speaker" is still >actually a part of this reality of ours. No, I disagree. Having taught creative writing classes for several years, I have considered this. Bad or careless writing is written for other people to read, yes. The ego creates it alone, with an eye to the reader's ego, not under the illuminating ray of the divine. But good or great writing is a gift from beyond, like great music or great architecture. To listen to Mozart, to stand inside a cathedral is to be, literally, inspired. Fantasy becoming reality, but a reality accessible to (or through) only the individual creator. Two Mozarts simultaneously? Two Da Vincis? Shakespeares? Perhaps not; something inexplicably special going on there... But every writer will agree that they have one 'very best' work, about which they talk with hushed tones of awe and reverence. They agree that it 'came to them perfect and entire' and they transmitted it thus. Is Coleridge remembered for anything except 'Kublai Khan'? And that was unfinished, snapped off midflow by that dratted man from Porlock. But crucially, each 'masterpiece' could only ever have been created by that particular individual, because it is a perfect crystallisation of their individual and unique histories, experiences, training, and devotion. No-one else anywhere, ever, could have produced exactly the same work. Just as Mozart etc are unrivalled. This unique creativity is the glory of the human species. True, these individuals are transmitting the divine, sprinkling drops from the waters of your "pool of alternate realities ". But the shining glory of the transmission is that the individual ego actually does have its own merit; that it can change reality. Without this, humans would mill about aimlessly, the helpless victims of fate (many do). But those who seize control over their destinies illustrate consciousness - in the form of conscience. Without a human conscience, there is no wrong or right. One ego's translation of the divine message alters the mindset of every person who hears their message. From Buddha to Christ, to Marx, to Hitler, to the student waving flags and dancing with the tank in Tien Menin Square. It is our duty and our burden and our blessing to perceive our own power, that of the ego, to alter the world forever. >> So realities for other people can be created by a single individual, >>although all writers are also aware of the actual risk of simultaneous >>creation of their 'own' ideas by another writer. Pratchett calls it >>Morphic Resonance. Actually, I now realise that he was quoting from Rupert Sheldrake at the time. >Ahh yes! This is the universal pool of possibilities which all creative >people dip from! This happens with musicians quite frequently. (I are >one.) :) Yes, musicians seen particularly vulnerable to the loss of the ego as a creative force; perhaps because they tend to play in bands or groups or orchestras, and so accept the right of other musicians to transmit the divine... Then some of them end up in copyright battles, songwriters in particular, as they work with words not just music. I've encountered a few of those. >Accepting the Universal Consciousness as a given... IMO it works like this: >>It's not that I sit down to create something, and you then "tap" into my >works and recreate it at virtually the same time. It is rather... we both >"dial in" to the same ISP (Interactive Scenario Provider) ... and interpret >the perfected creation which is already there, as best we can using the >tools which we have developed in this reality. And this is much like the >problem of sight and identification while OOB. It must be interpreted by >the part of us, (I call this our "ego"), which relates to this physical >realm of ours. But your translation of the same message would be different from mine; subtly, perhaps, but that is the result of the ego's experience. The ego, then would define whether mine was a 'better' or more accessible interpretation to other people - just as we are doing in this debate. My interpretation would alter your opinion (or that of another reader) - you may not agree with it, but your definition of your disagreement would advance the development of the concept or opinion or thought-reality. So it would not have been in existence without the impact upon another human ego. We have each thus created another reality, but only by sharing the vision with another human. The OOB event does indeed result from the ego interpreting the mystery of the divine within its own limitations; but the act of interpreting it is within the compass of the individual: Your 'Terrifying snarling Night Hag' might be my 'Hairy Guardian of the Threshold with hideous toenails and a loving grin' ; your fear is my protection. It all depends on the ego's life experience. But if I explain to you why I am not afraid of my oobe monster, you might see yours as benevolent too. I have altered your reality, but only by you listening to me 'creating' mine. >> But, now here is the query: >> When I 'fly' in meditation to visit a friend on another continent >>I arrive there at exactly the moment we had preagreed, allowing for >>International time differences. I later write the email describing to >>her exactly the image (eg brie on a plate) in her head at that moment. >I am confused here, as to which "moment" you're speaking of. ? The moment >of the visit...or the moment of the e-mail? Sorry. The moment of the visit, of the telepathic image-share. >> Are she and I creating a shared reality or, if as you say, "Time is >>an illusion, a falsehood constructed merely for the benefit of the >>human "ego", " then it must be a mutual human consciousness I am >>tapping into. > >Well, aside from the fact that I can't help but believe in a Universal >Consciousness ... I would say you're not creating a shared reality, but >rather, you're sharing a created one! Let me clarify what I mean by "ego". >This is the term that I give to that part of your consciousness which >identifies itself as an individual being,...or the "Me" in you. The "I am" >which looks back at you from the mirror. It is the final Editor in our >waking consciousness. It must interpret and identify everything. It is >programmed (by your Higher Self) to do so. It screams "Identify!" at >everything that we experience, and if unfamiliar/or unable to do so, it will >promptly substitute the impressions it receives for a similar one. If what >you have experienced is in fact, a message for you... it has no qualms about >being metaphorical,... as in some dreams which require interpretation for >the message. No, the brie had far less significance as a message for me than it had for her... Unless my Higher Self's message for me was "Hey! Here's a random event which you , Julia, could not possibly have imagined (never having heard of deep-fried brie). Now it is revealed in order to prove to you (and anyone else who cares to listen) that telepathy really does work, that you, Julia, really can fly in an instant, faster than light, across a planet and so you are part of the divine." Well, so I can, but I don't like to brag! (Brought up too much of a repressed overeducated middleclass Englishwoman for that!) But perhaps this message (or any other OOBE, song, poem, drawing, cathedral) is irrelevant until relayed to another person via the email or the newsgroup post. Only then does it come into existence. Only then is the divine droplet exploded into a shower or baptism of divine glory. Only the human ego's interpretation gives it significance. The tree may fall unseen in the forest but only if it falls on the leg of the sleeping huntsman does it carry any message or significance for humanity. The import or importance of that significant event resides within the skill, training or art (plus good luck) of the hunter to survive and tell his friend what happened. >> Then why do the things we encounter going obe or astrally >>travelling surprise us so much? Who is creating them? > >In my opinion, the one surprised by this is that "Ego". The "me" who >believes it is the center of the universe. The individual identity, is >surprised that..."my gosh! Where did this come from! This is not what "I" >am aware of!" >And, who is creating them? Ahh yes,.. the age-old universal question! Your >"Higher Self" is creating them. Your spirit/soul. That Upper part of you, >who knows all about you. Knows why you are here to experience this. Has >all the awareness of each of your past and future lives. Is most often your >"angel" or "guide" while astral. The Higher self that sets your rules, your >barriers, your challenges. Teaches you, guides you. Will give you >knowledge that you seek (if you're ready for it), and permit, or deny you >any experiences. Perhaps. But Guides can be wrong, or can be proved wrong in the light of experience or hindsight. An awful lot of gods and idols went out of fashion over the last few millennia. Asking for guidance ' from the highest possible light' accepts that the Higher Self can get it wrong, so something bigger and better must be respected. Is that Divinity? The Creator? >I am looking forward, Julia, to these discussions... Me too. But excuse me if this reply was woolly, as I have had both my toddlers around my skirts as I wrote it, demanding various attentions, plus my husband arriving home, plus the telephone ringing, tea cooking... Anyway, I got there. The illuminating ray of the divine message can be squeezed through the tightest confines (or prison window) if we focus clearly enough! Love from Julia - feeling in need of escapist dialogue. I've said it before so I'll say it again: "Astral Travel - the Holiday Resort of the Housebound!" ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Lines: 214 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:19:38 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.99 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 944328754 156.46.129.99 (Sat, 04 Dec 1999 11:32:34 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 04 Dec 1999 11:32:34 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uwm.edu!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com>... > Yes, that would be me. I never pretend to a 'scientific, analytical >or engineering' turn of mind. As a trainee architect I failed all the >Structures exams miserably, and I excelled in all the Theory and >History exams. But I was heavily criticised for being unorthodox in my >own designs... As a creative person, I couldn't see what was wrong >with that! Nor I ! Frank Lloyd Wright probably had the same problem, eh? It's rather strange, we often fail to examine the things which are nearest us... (this can be taken in several contexts)... I live but a stone's throw from FLW's home, and drive past his Taliesin home regularly,... but, have never visited it! Shame, isn't it? > > But crucially, each 'masterpiece' could only ever have been created >by that particular individual, because it is a perfect crystallisation >of their individual and unique histories, experiences, training, and >devotion. No-one else anywhere, ever, could have produced exactly the >same work. Just as Mozart etc are unrivalled. Agreed, emphatically, and Amen! But even these, are mere shadows of the Divine perfection... but, closer to the mark than most! And it is our Higher Self, that is aware of this...and we perceive a thing of beauty. > This unique creativity is the glory of the human species. True, >these individuals are transmitting the divine, sprinkling drops from >the waters of your "pool of alternate realities ". But the shining >glory of the transmission is that the individual ego actually does >have its own merit; that it can change reality. Beautifully put... and I agree. > Without this, humans would mill about aimlessly, the helpless >victims of fate (many do). I believe we make our own fate. And, I don't believe in coincidence. It is our duty and our burden and our blessing to perceive our >own power, that of the ego, to alter the world forever. Amen. I don't disagree with these concepts at all, in fact I embrace them! But alas, 'tis moot. For I was not speaking in terms of humanity, nor the power of enlightened individuals to change the world's direction or view. And, this is probably my fault, for not stating my comments clearly enough. You state the human condition in this reality, very nicely. Thank you. I am somewhat at a loss for an "off-the-cuff" explaination of where I was heading... We exist on a "zillion" planes of reality, simultaneously. But, we only experience one at a time. That is our life-flow. The "me" you communicated with yesterday, is not the same "me" you are reading right now. Nor is it, you. That is how we choose our paths, and that is how we grow. (And I'm not speaking poetically here, but factually.) And yes, our creativity can vastly alter another's reality! Imagine a grid of intersecting lines. Now shape that grid into a sphere. (A ball of chicken-wire will do. :) ) Your consciousness is traveling along a single strand of this grid, and that makes up your reality. But with every micro-second, with every thought, with every interaction you have with your environment... you encounter an intersection of the grid. Based upon your choice of thoughts, deeds, or perception,... you will be gravitated to travel left, right, or straight along your path. And you have created a new possible future for yourself, and also, a new possible past! You have stepped into a new scenario...in the wink of an eye! I shall not elaborate here,...but you must also then make this into a multi-dimensional model, with say, another ball of grids which are connected at each intersection. Your "UFO Invaders" and such,... come from this "outside of this reality" grid. As do the different dimensions we experience astrally! Your >'Terrifying snarling Night Hag' might be my 'Hairy Guardian of the >Threshold with hideous toenails and a loving grin' ; your fear is my >protection. It all depends on the ego's life experience. But if I >explain to you why I am not afraid of my oobe monster, you might see >yours as benevolent too. I have altered your reality, but only by you >listening to me 'creating' mine. I will gladly trade you Night Hags, anyday! Take my Hag, please! :) I never knew what terrified meant... until I met my Hag! And, I'm still wrestling with that. Afraid to go back "in", for Fear of being greeted again! And mine was...without form and void. Faceless, bodiless, yes... but with an overpowering presence which could not be denied. Ominous. Evil. Threatening. I still tremble at the mere thought of the memory. Any pointers, Julia? Unless my Higher Self's message for me was "Hey! Here's >a random event which you , Julia, could not possibly have imagined >(never having heard of deep-fried brie). Actually, I've never heard of it either! Fish? But, my point... I have been given many, many, of these private truths. Experiences which are given for me, so that I "understand" the message at hand... absolute proof for me, but alas, for no one else. But the difference that I see in these threads I read, and my own experiences of "proof", are seemingly vast, indeed! To wit: I have experienced these things, not sleeping nor tired, not OOB, not altered in any way... but in the wide awake "real world" of the here-now. And no, I'm not crazy... contrary to what the skeptics would truly LOVE to be true. > Perhaps. But Guides can be wrong, or can be proved wrong in the >light of experience or hindsight. An awful lot of gods and idols went >out of fashion over the last few millennia. I was speaking of our personal metaphysical guides,... the ones who hold our hands in the astral,...the ones who direct us to an astral experience that we are meant to have. Not the "guides" of dogmatic religious concepts, or spiritual masters and scribes who relate to us their own messages as best they can. But, our inner personal guides. And mine, by the way, have never been wrong. And so, I trust them emphatically. Every "future event" that I have been shown will happen in my own life...has happened. Without fail. But alas,...I often don't recognise them as such until after they've occurred. 'Tis a shame, that. And it makes me ponder why it is that our messages must be conveyed with such mystery? (sometimes) Because, I think, it makes you ponder, and seek, and study the meaning thereof... and that is the secret! As the Disciples asked, "Why do you speak to them in parables"? Aha. Asking for guidance ' from >the highest possible light' accepts that the Higher Self can get it >wrong, so something bigger and better must be respected. >Is that Divinity? The Creator? I don't agree that it accepts that at all. For it is our "ego" which asks the question... and it is our "ego" which is unsure of itself,... not our Higher Self. Who are we to judge our Higher Selves? Hesheit knows what is best for us, what we must experience and learn, and guides us if we're willing to follow. But we often don't heed that advise, do we? Or know what we need? Of course there is something bigger and better... or from whence came that Higher Self? But multi-dimensionally, it's all the same. We are all ultimately One, conglomerately, and that One...is the experience of the Divine. > Love from Julia - feeling in need of escapist dialogue. Me, tooooooooooo! And Amen! I will leave you, today, with a small "experience" I had from yesterday..... Just another little "proof" to me, anyway...that I'm on the right track... At 11:07 a.m., after having posted to you, I was scrubbing up dishes in the sink (a probable useless chore which I insist is necessary previous to their deposit in the dishwasher!),... and a fragile clear glass bowl which I'd been holding in my left hand, slipped free. As I instinctively grabbed for it, I saw quite clearly, this event. The bowl broke into several pieces, the largest of which gashed my left palm quite deeply! I can still remember even the exact shape of this piece! It was a nasty gash, and would have required several stitches! However, at virtually the same instant... my thought was, of course, "Oh, No!" ( And I shan't be convinced that thoughts don't travel faster than the speed of light! Which, by the way, is how "matter" is created....but, that's another topic!) And then I grabbed the bowl, successfully, without it breaking. Said my "thank-God's", and continued washing. And of course, thanked my Higher Self, for showing me two seperate possible futures, simultaenously. And I cannot overemphasize the fact that: I saw each of these events unfold with the same clarity, in unison as it were. They were both "real". Two possible futures, for that particular moment. And might well have been an actual life-changing pivot point, for me and others... who would I have met at the hospital? What may have been said? What may have been altered? Or, perhaps that trip would have been my demise with an auto accident? The possibilities, are endless! And I don't think that this particular "revelation" to me was coincidentally on the heels of my posting about such things as "alternate possible realities"...... Do you? As ever, thought stimulating, Julia.... Thank-you! B.D. Yager ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 01:16:53 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 159 Message-ID: <384b0589.11192891@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userae63.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 944440454 1928 62.188.131.205 (6 Dec 1999 00:34:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Dec 1999 00:34:14 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.online.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:19:38 -0600, "B.D. Yager" wrote: > I live but a stone's throw from FLW's >home, and drive past his Taliesin home regularly,... but, have never visited >it! Shame, isn't it? You wicked wastrel! Go there tomorrow. Photograph it mentally, absorb its simple glory, then telepathise it all over to me! I would love to visit it... remote viewing it in my dreams is definitely second best. Honestly, the finest piece of art the USA ever produced but you haven't been to see it... bad bad man. Go there! >> Without this, humans would mill about aimlessly, the helpless >>victims of fate (many do). > >I believe we make our own fate. And, I don't believe in coincidence. Me too. There's always some grand plan unfolding. But we can avoid following it if we so wish. It just delays the eventual arrival at the state of grace. >We exist on a "zillion" planes of reality, simultaneously. But, we only >experience one at a time. That is our life-flow. The "me" you communicated >with yesterday, is not the same "me" you are reading right now. Nor is it, >you. That is how we choose our paths, and that is how we grow. (And I'm >not speaking poetically here, but factually.) And yes, our creativity can >vastly alter another's reality! Imagine a grid of intersecting lines. Now >shape that grid into a sphere. (A ball of chicken-wire will do. :) ) >Your consciousness is traveling along a single strand of this grid, and that >makes up your reality. But with every micro-second, with every thought, >with every interaction you have with your environment... you encounter an >intersection of the grid. Based upon your choice of thoughts, deeds, or >perception,... you will be gravitated to travel left, right, or straight >along your path. And you have created a new possible future for yourself, >and also, a new possible past! You have stepped into a new scenario...in >the wink of an eye! I shall not elaborate here,...but you must also then >make this into a multi-dimensional model, with say, another ball of grids >which are connected at each intersection. Your "UFO Invaders" and such,... >come from this "outside of this reality" grid. As do the different >dimensions we experience astrally! Like those marvellous Chinese balls carved from one piece of irony, with many smaller balls visible inside each one? Yes, the same idea as my unfolding map, or the Shamanic cobweb. I recently read a snippet suggesting that the latest theoretical physicist's new idea about parallel universes is that there are not 'n' of them , only seven. Every Buddhist can nod sagely and say "well, we did try to tell you." Each one is indeed a grid of possible links, then like the ivory ball, the next plane is accessible from the one we occupy, or you can (as an experienced shaman) whoosh through the gap between several planes or ivory balls, bypassing planes such as the astral where imagination rules, to reach the deeper, higher alternative realities... >I will gladly trade you Night Hags, anyday! Take my Hag, please! :) I >never knew what terrified meant... until I met my Hag! And, I'm still >wrestling with that. Afraid to go back "in", for Fear of being greeted >again! And mine was...without form and void. Faceless, bodiless, yes... >but with an overpowering presence which could not be denied. Ominous. >Evil. Threatening. I still tremble at the mere thought of the memory. Any >pointers, Julia? Yes. I only met my 'Hairy Guardian of the Threshold with hideous toenails and a loving grin' once. But I was forewarned by other people on this group, so I knew what to do. It was indeed terrifying (oh, those toenails - yeeeuck!) and if I had not known it for what it is, I too would have turned and fled to safer climes... But it is indeed a greeter, the 'Watcher at the Threshold' to marvellous worlds. The more afraid of it I became, the less chance I would have of passing it, as it would grow in ferocity proportionate to my fear. So I rolled a fluffy pink ball of tender love at it and it sort of curled up and giggled, lay on its back to have its tummy stroked, became my faithful and devoted watchdog. It let me through the gateway, and always does so. Now it guards my empty body when I am 'out' and protects me from harm. But I still hate its hideous toenails, poor thing. >Unless my Higher Self's message for me was "Hey! Here's >>a random event which you , Julia, could not possibly have imagined >>(never having heard of deep-fried brie). > >Actually, I've never heard of it either! Fish? But, my point... No, a variety of soft French cheese, needs a sharp sauce such as gooseberry puree to counteract the fattiness. >I have been given many, many, of these private truths. Experiences which >are given for me, so that I "understand" the message at hand... absolute >proof for me, but alas, for no one else. But the difference that I see in >these threads I read, and my own experiences of "proof", are seemingly vast, >indeed! To wit: I have experienced these things, not sleeping nor tired, >not OOB, not altered in any way... but in the wide awake "real world" of the >here-now. And no, I'm not crazy... contrary to what the skeptics would >truly LOVE to be true. No, I think they would truly love it to be true that there is actually something beyond the limitations of their own tight little imaginations. Those who can do, do... Those who can't do, criticise. You sound just as sane as I am, and I have been certified sane by four seperate psychiatrists. One then asked me for a date. Another one said I was "worryingly sane, in fact... so sane that by meeting you, I'm beginning to query my own sanity...!" (well, we were both a little drunk at the time!) >I was speaking of our personal metaphysical guides,... the ones who hold our >hands in the astral,...the ones who direct us to an astral experience that >we are meant to have. Not the "guides" of dogmatic religious concepts, or >spiritual masters and scribes who relate to us their own messages as best >they can. But, our inner personal guides. And mine, by the way, have never >been wrong. And so, I trust them emphatically. Every "future event" that I >have been shown will happen in my own life...has happened. Without fail. >But alas,...I often don't recognise them as such until after they've >occurred. 'Tis a shame, that. And it makes me ponder why it is that our >messages must be conveyed with such mystery? (sometimes) Because, I think, >it makes you ponder, and seek, and study the meaning thereof... and that is >the secret! As the Disciples asked, "Why do you speak to them in parables"? >Aha. Aha indeed. Lucky you to have guides you trust so wholly! My personal angel and I have frequent disagreements, and he goes and sulks for a few weeks after each one... Still, he means well! > Asking for guidance ' from >>the highest possible light' accepts that the Higher Self can get it >>wrong, so something bigger and better must be respected. >>Is that Divinity? The Creator? >I don't agree that it accepts that at all. For it is our "ego" which asks >the question... and it is our "ego" which is unsure of itself,... not our >Higher Self. Who are we to judge our Higher Selves? Hesheit knows what is >best for us, what we must experience and learn, and guides us if we're >willing to follow. But we often don't heed that advise, do we? Or know >what we need? Of course there is something bigger and better... or from >whence came that Higher Self? But multi-dimensionally, it's all the same. >We are all ultimately One, conglomerately, and that One...is the experience >of the Divine. Indeed. My angel has several times demonstrated to me that he is simultaneously Divine, my Guardian, my Higher Self, my Inner Child, my Shamanistic Animal and my Male or Yin aspect (that last one when he is sulking!). He has even appeared in his serpent form or in his blazing bewinged glory to my healer friends, until they all point at him in surprise. We shared realities through his 'dimension door' nature. So indeed we are all ultimately one. >I will leave you, today, with a small "experience" I had from yesterday.... >Just another little "proof" to me, anyway...that I'm on the right track... >And I don't think that this particular "revelation" to me was coincidentally >on the heels of my posting about such things as "alternate possible >realities"...... Be careful of what you wish for, it will always come true. For instance, never wish for a 'real challenge' if you don't want your life to fall apart entirely, as mine did in January. Still, hard work and nearly a year later, it has all built up again in a very satisfactory and grown-up kind of way. Heck, though, I even went out dancing and snogging with my husband last night, and I haven't done anything like that since I was a teenager! Life is such good fun! Love from Julia. ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> <384b0589.11192891@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Lines: 123 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:45:00 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.41 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 944581790 156.46.129.41 (Tue, 07 Dec 1999 09:49:50 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 09:49:50 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <384b0589.11192891@news.dial.pipex.com>... >On Sat, 4 Dec 1999 11:19:38 -0600, "B.D. Yager" >wrote: >> I live but a stone's throw from FLW's >>home, and drive past his Taliesin home regularly,... but, have never visited >>it! Shame, isn't it? > > You wicked wastrel! Go there tomorrow. Photograph it mentally, >absorb its simple glory, then telepathise it all over to me! I would >love to visit it... remote viewing it in my dreams is definitely >second best. Honestly, the finest piece of art the USA ever produced >but you haven't been to see it... bad bad man. Go there! Yes, I've been accused of that one before! :) Bad, indeed! It's wrapped into and around its' surroundings in a very beautiful and natural way. It seems to be a natural part of the hillside and trees, as if it had grown there. But I suppose that since I'm not particularly into architecture, I've had no burning desire to visit it. I believe that it's now closed to tours for the season. But, perhaps in the Spring, I'll go there? Remind me, okay? > > Like those marvellous Chinese balls carved from one piece of irony, >with many smaller balls visible inside each one? Yes, the same idea as >my unfolding map, or the Shamanic cobweb. > I recently read a snippet suggesting that the latest theoretical >physicist's new idea about parallel universes is that there are not >'n' of them , only seven. Every Buddhist can nod sagely and say "well, >we did try to tell you." I agree. And I suppose that eventually they'll "get" it. Unto as high as the Seventh Heaven! Each one is indeed a grid of possible links, >then like the ivory ball, the next plane is accessible from the one we >occupy, or you can (as an experienced shaman) whoosh through the gap >between several planes or ivory balls, bypassing planes such as the >astral where imagination rules, to reach the deeper, higher >alternative realities... Yes. I particularly enjoy the plane of "future events", although I don't know (numerically) where that is. My Guides seem to be stuck on the notion that they should keep taking me there,... or perhaps it is I, subconsciously, who keep asking them to? Nonetheless, I've never seen anything there that didn't come true for me, 100%. Including having a Nashville "cut" of one of my (100 or so) songs .... even telling which song it would be, and that it would be cut to CD. I was forewarned that my house would burn down, the motel I'd be living in after it happened, and met a future bandmember where we played for the benefit dance, for myself,... and exactly where that would be! But sometimes, it's best not to know these things! > >>I will gladly trade you Night Hags, anyday! Take my Hag, please! :) I >>never knew what terrified meant... until I met my Hag! And, I'm still >>wrestling with that. Afraid to go back "in", for Fear of being greeted >>again! And mine was...without form and void. Faceless, bodiless, yes... >>but with an overpowering presence which could not be denied. Ominous. >>Evil. Threatening. I still tremble at the mere thought of the memory. Any >>pointers, Julia? > > Yes. I only met my 'Hairy Guardian of the Threshold with hideous >toenails and a loving grin' once. But I was forewarned by other people >on this group, so I knew what to do. It was indeed terrifying (oh, >those toenails - yeeeuck!) and if I had not known it for what it is, >I too would have turned and fled to safer climes... > But it is indeed a greeter, the 'Watcher at the Threshold' to >marvellous worlds. The more afraid of it I became, the less chance I >would have of passing it, as it would grow in ferocity proportionate >to my fear. So I rolled a fluffy pink ball of tender love at it and it >sort of curled up and giggled, lay on its back to have its tummy >stroked, became my faithful and devoted watchdog. It let me through >the gateway, and always does so. Now it guards my empty body when I am >'out' and protects me from harm. > But I still hate its hideous toenails, poor thing. Well, I'm not into fluffy pink balls... perhaps I'll just try a handshake? But I have heard from others, that this "meeting of the Hag", is a rare occurence. So, I am somewhat releived by that. We'll see. > Be careful of what you wish for, it will always come true. >For instance, never wish for a 'real challenge' if you don't want your >life to fall apart entirely, as mine did in January. Still, hard work >and nearly a year later, it has all built up again in a very >satisfactory and grown-up kind of way. I agree. I wish you the best in "putting it back together", and since you didn't say, I won't ask. But feel free if you need to. Heck, though, I even went out >dancing and snogging with my husband last night, and I haven't done >anything like that since I was a teenager! Life is such good fun! > Love from Julia. Snogging??? Is that what they call it in England??? :) hahahahaha! I have no clue what a Snog is,... but it sounds like fun! Julia, have you heard of Eckancar... and what do you personally think of it? B.D. Yager ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 21:07:31 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 45 Message-ID: <384d6e32.1697347@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> <384b0589.11192891@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userbn93.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 944598309 16253 62.188.145.144 (7 Dec 1999 20:25:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Dec 1999 20:25:09 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo2!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:45:00 -0600, "B.D. Yager" wrote: >Yes. I particularly enjoy the plane of "future events", although I don't >know (numerically) where that is. My Guides seem to be stuck on the notion >that they should keep taking me there,... or perhaps it is I, >subconsciously, who keep asking them to? Nonetheless, I've never seen >anything there that didn't come true for me, 100%. Including having a >Nashville "cut" of one of my (100 or so) songs .... even telling which song >it would be, and that it would be cut to CD. I was forewarned that my house >would burn down, the motel I'd be living in after it happened, and met a >future bandmember where we played for the benefit dance, for myself,... and >exactly where that would be! But sometimes, it's best not to know these >things! Happy and sad stories. But did these warnings inspire you to increase your contents insurance? >Well, I'm not into fluffy pink balls... perhaps I'll just try a handshake? Even tinsel and rhinestones can have their own useful purposes! >But I have heard from others, that this "meeting of the Hag", is a rare >occurence. So, I am somewhat releived by that. We'll see. Only once for me. I read in an excellent book 'Flying without a Broomstick' that the Hag is an early event for OBERs, and it is so scary that it makes the fearful turn back and so avoid the passage 'through the gateway' to the Astral planes. If, as I did, you recognise the Watcher, and so overcome your fear, it lets you through and stays at the gateway so that it protects your empty body. >Snogging??? Is that what they call it in England??? :) hahahahaha! I >have no clue what a Snog is,... but it sounds like fun! It certainly is! >Julia, have you heard of Eckancar... and what do you personally think of it? Nothing to do with me... Bart, who occasionally graces this newsgroup with his wit and wisdom, resigned from it. I'm rather a Hedgewitch, so joining any group, society, organisation or religion is anathema to me, although I have studied High Anglican, Spiritualism, Wicca and Reform Judaism enough to know that none of those groups would welcome me or I them ! Love from Julia. ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> <384b0589.11192891@news.dial.pipex.com> <384d6e32.1697347@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Lines: 109 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:08:10 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.45 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 944658663 156.46.129.45 (Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:11:03 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:11:03 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!EU.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <384d6e32.1697347@news.dial.pipex.com>... >On Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:45:00 -0600, "B.D. Yager" >wrote: >>Yes. I particularly enjoy the plane of "future events", although I don't Nonetheless, I've never seen >>anything there that didn't come true for me, 100%. > Happy and sad stories. But did these warnings inspire you to >increase your contents insurance? Funny you should mention that... No, they didn't. In fact, we had no insurance whatsoever! I lost $15 K in recording equipment alone. As I had alluded to in an earlier post, this premonition was given in a way that would have been extremely difficult to correctly analyse the future event. The only indication of a "fire", is that I was walking down our Main Street... but rather than being paved with blacktop, I found myself walking on black coal. I knew it had significance, because I thought, "my, that's funny...what is this?". I also noticed at the bottom of the street, stood a building which isn't there in the "real world". It was a white stucco with brown boards framing it. (I kept looking for this building in the "here-now" world, as I just "knew" it too, meant something.) Well, it did. As I walked out of the side door of the motel we lived in after the fire, I turned and looked at it. There was the building! Exactly as in the vision, one year earlier! It hit me like a brick in the face at the time! Rather like a deja-vu experience. In the vision, I went to a party near the bottom of the street, on the right hand side near the corner. I'd never been in there... but this turned out to be the tavern where our benefit dance was held, one year later. In the vision I spoke with a heavy-set woman who wore a long straight dress. Well, she eventually turned out to be the bandleader of a group I joined a year later, and they played in there for our benefit dance! But at the time,... I didn't know her from squat! In another vision, I was simply given a piece of paper, which had the numbers: 109 written on it. It was handed to me by a gentleman who stood behind a marble counter, which had two large white pillars on top of it. Meant nothing to me at the time,... but many months later I was sent to Minnesota for some technical training for my job. When I checked into the motel,... there was the marble counter and pillars! Then the desk clerk handed me my room key, and you guessed it! Room 109! You could have knocked me over with a feather! I kept waiting for something really, really significant to happen that day... but, that was it. Oh, by the way...the date was January Ninth! Those numbers came up again, too! (once inverted, though... and perhaps coincidence)... after our house fire, my new address became P.O. Box 190! Sheesh. So you see, although I had complete recognition (without a doubt) of these events when they unfolded,... I had no way to predict exactly what they might be in my own future! Hardly "proof" for anyone, but me. And I suspect that that's all they were meant to be! >>But I have heard from others, that this "meeting of the Hag", is a rare >>occurence. So, I am somewhat releived by that. We'll see. > > Only once for me. I read in an excellent book 'Flying without a >Broomstick' that the Hag is an early event for OBERs, and it is so >scary that it makes the fearful turn back and so avoid the passage >'through the gateway' to the Astral planes. I can relate to that one! Yes, it was after my first real OOBE...that I returned to my body (thought I did, anyway), and "woke up" in my bedroom. Well, it turned out to be a "false awakening". I swear, I could not tell the difference between this room I woke up in, and the "real" bedroom of mine. Nor, could I tell the difference in my mental consciousness at the time, and the waking state. Then my "Hag" came up the stairs to greet me! And, as is often associated with "Night Hags", I found myself quite paralyzed! However, I could distinctively feel the arm and hand of a person gripping my left hand. This was a reassuring, comforting sort of grip. The kind you would give a child, if you held her hand and walked her over to the edge of a cliff to look down. A definate "It's okay, I'm here.", feel to it. This same hand had been holding mine throughout the "vision" of walking down mainstreet, and had continued to do so into this second experience. Terrified by the Hag,... I again "woke up", this time for real. Of course, at the time I didn't know whether or not I might "wake-up" again! I couldn't tell the difference! I immediately looked for the hand holding mine, as I had assumed incorrectly that it had been my wife's hand. She lay sleeping on the far side of the bed, with her back towards me. And this shocked me, because the "touch" had been so real! (Of course, it shouldn't have... my wife would never have held my hand at all!) As a matter of fact, she's rather a negative force for me,... and not someone to whom I can relate my experiences. >>Snogging??? Is that what they call it in England??? :) hahahahaha! I >>have no clue what a Snog is,... but it sounds like fun! > > It certainly is! Is it dangerous??? Well, I shall leave you for now my English friend... to Snog the day away if you so desire! I have to get my rugrats (13 & 14) up for school! Bruce ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Hawkes-Moore / Yager Exchange Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 18:27:20 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 65 Message-ID: <384e9e4d.268528@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <01bf378c$223f8300$11161d86@moi-comp> <3844B36C.5DDDCA0C@best.com> <38451552.2712416@news.dial.pipex.com> <384563d8_2@news.calweb.com> <38457a44.4704930@news.dial.pipex.com> <3846b70a.1420250@news.dial.pipex.com> <3848400b.10634248@news.dial.pipex.com> <384b0589.11192891@news.dial.pipex.com> <384d6e32.1697347@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userbm25.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 944675103 19771 62.188.144.231 (8 Dec 1999 17:45:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Dec 1999 17:45:03 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 07:08:10 -0600, "B.D. Yager" wrote: >Funny you should mention that... No, they didn't. In fact, we had no >insurance whatsoever! Now that is sad. With our house for sale this Spring, we considered not renewing our pricy and unused 'new for old' contents insurance, as all our stuff was due to go into storage the next week. But that little voice in my left ear said "don't be silly, renew it" (my angel is often discourteous) so I did. The following night, the cellar flooded, (our home office) along with the computer, sewing machine and oscilloscope. Thank goodness... Premonitions eh?; I drew a beautiful sketch of my first husband - a year before I met him and fell instantly in love with him. There he was, all slim 6' with long light brown curls, jeans, black silk Cossack shirt, iridescent blue eyeshadow, silver nail varnish and all. The drawing even sat in his characteristic pose.... aaah. >Those numbers came up again, too! Here's another one: our last house, from which we are but newly moved was number 109 Radwinter Road, although we did keep getting the post for the man at 109 Ashdon Road, who had the same surname.... > Hardly "proof" for anyone, but me. And I >suspect that that's all they were meant to be! Gratifying if you had taken out insurance though... Do you converse with your Guardian Angel yet? >I can relate to that one! 'Proof' , eh? Hee hee. >As a matter of fact, >she's rather a negative force for me,... and not someone to whom I can >relate my experiences. Mmmm, I get no comment from my engineer husband. But he does occasionally get tetchy about me 'flying off ' and leaving him alone for an hour some nights. Meanie. He gets to fly off to Paris or Edinburgh or Carolina most months and I'm not even allowed an hour on the Moon now and then.... >>>Snogging??? Is that what they call it in England??? :) hahahahaha! I >>>have no clue what a Snog is,... but it sounds like fun! >Is it dangerous??? Actually, rumours shot around the dance that 'That Blonde Woman in the green velvet gown' was getting on rather too well with 'That tall grey-haired chap in the blue silk shirt'. My friend had to point out that we had actually been married - to each other - for ten years! Gossip, eh? >Well, I shall leave you for now my English friend... to Snog the day away if >you so desire! Sigh... if only... Another good use for Astral Travel, I find... > I have to get my rugrats (13 & 14) up for school! Mine (4 &3) were both home with the sneezes today. Better and full of energy now it's bedtime, of course.... Love from Julia.