Message-ID: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> From: BJ X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:19:55 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.179.162.91 X-Trace: nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net 943582554 199.179.162.91 (Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:15:54 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:15:54 CDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!nntp0.chicago.il.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail I'm curious about some opinions on Robert Monroe's 3 books. I would very much like to believe his philsophy and take his account at face value, but I can't help but think that the two books have Jorneys Out of the Body seem more like contrived stories... It is very easy to just make up stories for the money, like I'm sure many people have done. The whole thing about him encountering other "selves", and only at the end does he realize that it was himself all along, where he's talking about the "paradox" of not being able to get close to AA... and seeminlg to not understand why he can't get close to AA. I mean, I inferred when reading it that it was probably "himself", basee on theidea of no two objects occupying the same space sort of deal. When he starts to talk about proving that people are in fact leaving their bodies, I don't really see any large effort being made to prove it. To me it seems so simple... Have a sign in another room, or in the same room only up on a large shelf, and go out of body and read what it says. If we do this 500-1000 times with 90% accuracy, then bingo, we have our scientific proof and we read it in the papers and see it on TV. Thanks for any opinions. I'm not trying to bad mouth robert monroe, I love his books and I've been listening to all the neat radio shows available from www.monroeinstitute.com. thank you. ###### From: "Chris Elliott" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? (watch the .com) Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 09:28:43 -0500 Organization: Ohio State University Lines: 14 Sender: elliott.175@dhcp9547021.columbus.rr.com Message-ID: <81m5gi$n92$1@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> References: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcp9547021.columbus.rr.com X-Trace: charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu 943626578 23842 24.95.47.21 (26 Nov 1999 14:29:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@osu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Nov 1999 14:29:38 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!nntp.msen.com!usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu!nntp.service.ohio-state.edu!not-for-mail > Thanks for any opinions. I'm not trying to bad mouth robert monroe, I > love his books and I've been listening to all the neat radio shows > available from www.monroeinstitute.com. > > thank you. Don't scare people...the correct address is www.monroeinstitute.org . I put .com once and almost fainted. -Chris Adminstrator OBE and Astral Projection Forum http://ptolomea.hypermart.net/obe/index.html ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? Date: 26 Nov 1999 23:51:24 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 104 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6ur9hchno3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 BJ writes: > > I'm curious about some opinions on Robert Monroe's 3 books. I would > very much like to believe his philsophy and take his account at face > value, but I can't help but think that the two books have Jorneys Out of > the Body seem more like contrived stories... Due to lack of personal experience, I can only say that many active OOBEers recommend Monroe. I posted for the stuff further down. > It is very easy to just > make up stories for the money, like I'm sure many people have done. Sure. But do even 90% crooks make the other 10% real ones wrong (or even 99% crooks the 1% real)? It is one (laudable) thing to be cautious. Throwing the kid out of the bath with the water is an entirely other (silly) thing. Actually just as silly as believing everything unquestioningly. > The > whole thing about him encountering other "selves", and only at the end > does he realize that it was himself all along, One of the central tennets of the Seth stuff. I am inclined to believe it. > When he starts to talk about proving that people are in fact leaving > their bodies, I don't really see any large effort being made to prove > it. Actually no effort whatsoever. Mainly because it is impossible to prove! OOBE is, as the E = Experience says, an subjective thing. There exists no objective proof of it**. And none is possible. That is known since more than 300 years (since Rene Descartes and his famous "I think, therefore I am"*). * He was looking, wheter there exists anything we can be sure of. In the end he came to the conclusion that as he is thinking, at least his own existance can be regarded as sure. But nothing else. ** BTW, the same also applies to dreams, LDs, feelings, and concioussness itsself, none of them are provable in an scientific sense (try proving them to, say, an intelligent computer or robot). One can measure/prove brain waves, alpha/theta cycles, REM, etc, but not the subjective impression people say they get. That can only be believed or rejected. Personal experience leads most people to accept concioussness and dreams, so only personal experience or trusting others who report experiences will get one to accept OOBE. > To me it seems so simple... Have a sign in another room, or in the > same room only up on a large shelf, and go out of body and read what it > says. If we do this 500-1000 times with 90% accuracy, then bingo, we > have our scientific proof It appears simple. But like so many simple things it does not work. Else it would have been done long ago. The problem is, that that would only prove RV (Remote Viewing). This proof of RV has actually been done many times by such people like SRI (Stanford Research Institute), multiple universities, CIA (guess what they use it for), US Army***, etc. All report statistically proven success, but too little accuracy to take recieved data at face value (i.e. more in the 66% than in the 99% hits). Unfortunately proving RV does not prove OBE, it only proves RV. (Note that most RVers do not claim to OOBE while RVing). *** Joseph McMoneagle from US Army has reported on his/their work in his book Mind Treck. > and we read it in the papers and see it on TV. Or not. The RV successes are not widely reported either (McMoneagle appeared on TV). They violate the dogma of the present day religion of scientism (= pseudo-science****). So they are suppressed (not by law, but by fear of public ridicule, the "giggle factor"). **** real science is open to things that violate previous experience, that is why they have to constantly revise their theories (Newton, Einstein, Quantum, ...). > Thanks for any opinions. I'm not trying to bad mouth robert monroe, I > love his books and I've been listening to all the neat radio shows Which puts you way above that Hillard guy. Perhaps he should copy your style, then he would also get an good answer in the first few replies. Actually the answer I have given you here is the one he is looking for (and has been given at least 5 times). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> <6ur9hchno3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:04:10 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.64 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 943902510 156.46.129.64 (Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:08:30 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:08:30 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Hello, and Goodbye, Peter..... You have just entered the realm of, ummmm, ummmm, (the-nonmentionables)! Congradulations!!! peterfredin wrote in message ... >Robert Monroe was a fraud. >All he wanted was money. > >A past friend to me told me about a meeting with him... > >he was searching for material to his book.... > > ###### From: "peterfredin" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> <6ur9hchno3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:49:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.20.231.134 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.com X-Trace: newsb.telia.net 943901357 62.20.231.134 (Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:49:17 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:49:17 CET Organization: Telia Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!newsb.telia.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Robert Monroe was a fraud. All he wanted was money. A past friend to me told me about a meeting with him... he was searching for material to his book.... ###### From: "carolisle" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> <6ur9hchno3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:58:40 -0000 Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-212-132.vip.uk.com Message-ID: <3842e80d_3@news1.vip.uk.com> X-Trace: 29 Nov 1999 20:54:37 GMT, modem-212-132.vip.uk.com X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@vip.uk.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!iclnet!news1.vip.uk.com!modem-212-132.vip.uk.com peterfredin wrote in message news:NUz04.356$62i.170437632@newsb.telia.net... > Robert Monroe was a fraud. > All he wanted was money. > > A past friend to me told me about a meeting with him... > > he was searching for material to his book.... > > I found Robert Monroe to be very genuine IMO and found his books extremely helpful. Love carol ###### From: manoj.k@poboxes.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe books: Fact or Fiction? Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 11:12:41 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <820bf7$7es$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <383DEE4B.C55FA8BD@ameritech.net> <6ur9hchno3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.102.201.233 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Nov 30 11:12:41 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x29.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 195.102.201.233 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDmanojk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail In article , "peterfredin" wrote: > Robert Monroe was a fraud. > All he wanted was money. > > A past friend to me told me about a meeting with him... > > he was searching for material to his book.... > > Peter, Robert Monroe had more money than you could possibly imagine before he wrote his books... you might want to check your friend into an asylum !! I'm sure the members on the list would agree . Cheers Manoj Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.