From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.reincarnation,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... Message-ID: References: <7r1fkf$h9s$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DF97BB.BA0FE497@dds.nl> <7ro717$j5u$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DFC11C.BB495C4F@dds.nl> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 61 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:01:09 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.122 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938916066 203.87.22.122 (Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:01:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 12:01:06 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:31:05 +0100, Chacal wrote: >In article , John Fitzsimons > writes >>< snip > >>Many "earthbound" people think that they are still physically alive so >>if/when they see dead friends/relatives they often think that they are >>dreaming or hallucinating. >>When someone discarnate is "focussed" in the physical world it is very >>difficult for spirit to help them. That is why it is often easier for >>physically alive people to help. Where a medium in a rescue circle is >>in trance one can talk to the person(s) and clearly explain that they >>are dead. Once they realize this spirit can "carry on" from there. >So it's all a matter of vibration then, isn't it? Those discarnate >souls who are so focussed on the physical would have a similar vibration >to ours, making it more difficult for them to communicate with spirit, >and therefore easier to be reached from this side of life. Yes, that is what I was trying to say. I think you have expressed things better than I did though. >>If one doesn't want to be lost and confused after death then they >>should find out what it is like. Despite mediums being all over the >>world most people are too lazy to do any serious investigation into >>these matters. >So am I right to assume that if we believe in the afterlife then there >isn't any danger of finding ourselves in some sort of limbo? Our "thinking" affects where we go when OOB. Whether that be OOB temporarily, or OOB permanently. Our thinking doesn't however negate our "total vibration". For example a murderer who has "positive thoughts" just before he dies does not end up in a "Higher realm" after death. He may go to "higher" (relative) realms though than he would otherwise end up in. To better explain things metaphorically. Instead of ending up on a very very very low astral realm he may only end up in a very very low one. > I don't >think I could trust my memory, though. After all, I cannot remember my >previous incarnations, so why should I remember my belief system while >on earth when I pass on to the other side? Just a thought that keeps >nagging me.. ;-) Your "overall" approach to life tends to influence your afterlife after death. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Message-ID: <37F9A8A6.802438A2@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.reincarnation,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... References: <7r1fkf$h9s$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DF97BB.BA0FE497@dds.nl> <7ro717$j5u$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DFC11C.BB495C4F@dds.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 01:28:38 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.131.176.161 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 939108690 204.131.176.161 (Tue, 05 Oct 1999 01:31:30 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 01:31:30 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail > On Sat, 2 Oct 1999 14:31:05 +0100, Chacal > wrote: > > > I don't > >think I could trust my memory, though. After all, I cannot remember my > >previous incarnations, so why should I remember my belief system while > >on earth when I pass on to the other side? Just a thought that keeps > >nagging me.. ;-) > Actually this isn't a problem. It's much more difficult to remember serious information when you get back from the astral plane than it is to remember your life while on the astral plane. There are times however when you can actually forget your real life while projecting. I did so not too long ago and it's a real eye opener because without a real life to remember and considering the reality of OBEs, it is very easy for you to think that the astral life you are living is the only life you have. It really opens your mind up to the possibility that this life can just be an OBE of another existance. Ken ###### From: "Jakob Meulengracht" Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.reincarnation,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:58:30 +0200 Organization: Customer at Tele Danmark Erhverv Lines: 13 Message-ID: <7tci6u$6ht$1@news1.tele.dk> References: <7r1fkf$h9s$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DF97BB.BA0FE497@dds.nl> <7ro717$j5u$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DFC11C.BB495C4F@dds.nl> <37F9A8A6.802438A2@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.182.131.88 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.cwix.com!news1.tele.dk!not-for-mail >, it is very easy for you to think that the >astral life you are living is the only life you have. It really opens your >mind up to the possibility that this life can just be an OBE of another >existance. What is the "reality" for you.. your astral life? your "earthly" life? both? Do you think that your consciousness could get caught in the astral, and what would happen to your physical body if you did? Would you like to forget your life as it is, and live only in the astral? /Jakob ###### Message-ID: <37FAB49F.1EB27DF3@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.reincarnation,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... References: <7r1fkf$h9s$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DF97BB.BA0FE497@dds.nl> <7ro717$j5u$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DFC11C.BB495C4F@dds.nl> <37F9A8A6.802438A2@privatei.com> <7tci6u$6ht$1@news1.tele.dk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 57 Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:31:59 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.131.176.158 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 939177290 204.131.176.158 (Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:34:50 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:34:50 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail I would have to say both. When OBE and spending some time there it seems to be impossible to determine that the OBE experience is not completely real. There is simply no way to determine if it is or not. You can touch things, you can interact with the people around you, you can think clearly and ask yourself questions about the reality of the situation and all things lead to the conclusion that what you are experiencing is simply your reality. When you experience this, you just have to wonder what the difference really is. The most obvious path to this is that when you return, then you can objectively say that this is reality and what you just experienced was not, but when you are there, this is not the case. You simply have no way of determining that the existance you are experiencing at the time is not just as real. All of the reality checks that you do when you are here are equaly valid when you are there. The one thing that keeps us wondering is that when we return, we always return to where we were before whereas when we return to the astral we are always presented with variations, but this proves nothing. It simply means there are more situations to experience when there. I have never met the same people twice while astral, but then again if one is inclined to be a traveler in this reality the same situation can occur (except for the fact that we can always use the phone to contact people we know). Regarding your question about getting trapped, As long as your physical body is still breathing, you will likely always return to it. But you can turn the tables and say as long as your astral form is still breathing you can always return to it as well, so which one is the real one? Would I like to forget my life as it is and live only on the astral? No, just as I would not to forget my astral life and stay here. There is no current reason why I should chose astral life over this, although the experiences are quite vast out there. Besides, there is something to be said for the consistancy of this reality, to be able to see my friends again when I return. The same ones I had prior to leaving. In addition, I do believe that this reality has a stability for a reason, it's a homebase and our sanity seems to require such a thing. But when I die and end up permanantly on the astral, then this reality will no doubt take on the very same stability. Keep in mind that we live in this reality 99% of the time. When this no longer is an option (death), then no doubt we will again have stability in the astral environment, with the creation of long lasting friends and so on that will make our previous reality existance just a thing of the past. Ken Jakob Meulengracht wrote: > >, it is very easy for you to think that the > >astral life you are living is the only life you have. It really opens your > >mind up to the possibility that this life can just be an OBE of another > >existance. > > What is the "reality" for you.. your astral life? your "earthly" life? both? > Do you think that your consciousness could get caught in the astral, and > what would happen to your physical body if you did? > Would you like to forget your life as it is, and live only in the astral? > > /Jakob ###### From: "Jakob Meulengracht" Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.reincarnation,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:40:30 +0200 Organization: Customer at Tele Danmark Erhverv Lines: 31 Message-ID: <7tf20s$nkn$1@news1.tele.dk> References: <7r1fkf$h9s$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DF97BB.BA0FE497@dds.nl> <7ro717$j5u$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DFC11C.BB495C4F@dds.nl> <37F9A8A6.802438A2@privatei.com> <7tci6u$6ht$1@news1.tele.dk> <37FAB49F.1EB27DF3@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.182.131.103 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news1.tele.dk!not-for-mail >When you >experience this, you just have to wonder what the difference really is. Well, maybe there is none. Maybe you are exploring the same reality, but with "another set of eyes". Take cats for instance, their eyes are built so they can see a larger color-spectrum (ex. infra-red) hence their view of the world is different from ours. They can see the heat, we can only feel it (and so on). (My analogy only tries to compensate for my lack of experience and vocabulary on OBE - sorry if it sounds somewhat confused.) Maybe when your having an OBE, you have an enhanced experience-spectrum, and is actually seeing the SAME world (and reality) (or a co-existing reality?) - but with "another set of eyes"? >When this no longer is an option >(death), then no doubt we will again have stability in the astral environment, >with the creation of long lasting friends and so on that will make our previous >reality existance just a thing of the past. So when you die, you know that you're going to live in the astral environment. Is this forever, or are you reincarnated (earthly) after some time.. sound like you crave Nirvana right after this life? BTW: Have you ever met a friend on the astral plane? (like a shared OBE or something similar) /Jakob ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.reincarnation,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 23:43:17 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 108 Message-ID: <7tj7bi$1vp$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7r1fkf$h9s$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DF97BB.BA0FE497@dds.nl> <7ro717$j5u$1@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <37DFC11C.BB495C4F@dds.nl> <37F9A8A6.802438A2@privatei.com> <7tci6u$6ht$1@news1.tele.dk> <37FAB49F.1EB27DF3@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967246.firearms.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 939335858 2041 195.92.2.178 (7 Oct 1999 22:37:38 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Oct 1999 22:37:38 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail The Original Ken wrote in message <37FAB49F.1EB27DF3@privatei.com>... >I would have to say both. When OBE and spending some time there it seems to be >impossible to determine that the OBE experience is not completely real. There >is simply no way to determine if it is or not. You can touch things, you can >interact with the people around you, you can think clearly and ask yourself >questions about the reality of the situation and all things lead to the >conclusion that what you are experiencing is simply your reality. When you >experience this, you just have to wonder what the difference really is. The >most obvious path to this is that when you return, then you can objectively say >that this is reality and what you just experienced was not, but when you are >there, this is not the case. You simply have no way of determining that the >existance you are experiencing at the time is not just as real. All of the >reality checks that you do when you are here are equaly valid when you are >there. The one thing that keeps us wondering is that when we return, we always >return to where we were before whereas when we return to the astral we are >always presented with variations, but this proves nothing. It simply means >there are more situations to experience when there. I have never met the same >people twice while astral, but then again if one is inclined to be a traveler in >this reality the same situation can occur (except for the fact that we can >always use the phone to contact people we know). > >Regarding your question about getting trapped, As long as your physical body is >still breathing, you will likely always return to it. But you can turn the >tables and say as long as your astral form is still breathing you can always >return to it as well, so which one is the real one? > >Would I like to forget my life as it is and live only on the astral? No, just >as I would not to forget my astral life and stay here. There is no current >reason why I should chose astral life over this, although the experiences are >quite vast out there. Besides, there is something to be said for the >consistancy of this reality, to be able to see my friends again when I return. >The same ones I had prior to leaving. In addition, I do believe that this >reality has a stability for a reason, it's a homebase and our sanity seems to >require such a thing. But when I die and end up permanantly on the astral, then >this reality will no doubt take on the very same stability. Keep in mind that >we live in this reality 99% of the time. When this no longer is an option >(death), then no doubt we will again have stability in the astral environment, >with the creation of long lasting friends and so on that will make our previous >reality existance just a thing of the past. > >Ken > >Jakob Meulengracht wrote: > >> >, it is very easy for you to think that the >> >astral life you are living is the only life you have. It really opens your >> >mind up to the possibility that this life can just be an OBE of another >> >existance. >> >> What is the "reality" for you.. your astral life? your "earthly" life? both? >> Do you think that your consciousness could get caught in the astral, and >> what would happen to your physical body if you did? >> Would you like to forget your life as it is, and live only in the astral? >> >> /Jakob > > Hi Ken and Jakob, Have been thinking about this (both brain cells in overdrive), as there are obviously more worlds or energy systems than this one . . what, or where is reality? What if it's none of them, and the comparative realities of these various states of consciousness are created by a source (or Source?) Perhaps Atmic . . though don't know, never been there. Then perhaps we don't have to, perhaps it's just there all the time inside us - just a frequency that we get glimpses of. OBE I'm really ambitious for someone who rarely gets beyond the bedroom door! Sometimes the astral seems so solid that I have difficulty realising I'm OBE and sometimes it's so fuzzy everything seems to just dissolve . . . I wonder if anybody has memories of how they felt in between lives and where they were? Love carol ###### From: spicyjem@aol.comnospam (Jeff Mash) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Some serious thought is in order... Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Oct 1999 18:59:39 GMT References: <7tj7bi$1vp$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991008145939.18176.00000226@ng-da1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail > >I wonder if anybody has memories of how they felt in between lives and where >they were? Hi Carol, I personally don't have any current knowledge regarding my past lives (or in between lives, but I can recommend a great book on the subject: "Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton It deals with past life regression with hypnotised subjects. More specifiically, it deals with the "in-between stages" of past life existence. I found it very easy to read, and profound in it's content. Keep smiling, <3 Jeff Mash <3 To email me, remove the "nospam" in the address. Need a laugh? Go to http://www.myjokemail.com "There's nothing to fear except fear itself...Oh...plus rejection and physical harm!"