From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 339 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:36:15 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938381679 203.87.22.225 (Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:34:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:34:39 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:30:45 GMT, Porch Firestarter a.k.a. Crow Wolf wrote: >In article , > John Fitzsimons wrote: >> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:32:43 -0700, imdaniela >> wrote: Hi Daniela, >> >I know we haven't agreed much since I first posted this, >> >but I need to ask you a few questions. First, do you think >> >that I would be safe if I actively persue the spirits >> >instead of waiting for the phenomena to occur on their own? >> Certainly. But what I mean and what you mean may be different. This is >> the reason I keep asking you questions. There is little point in >> talking at cross purposes. It not only doesn't help you/others but it >> can result in more confusion for people. >> If you read the prayer on my vicnet site then you will see that I >> suggest that you direct love/light to people who are working against >> you. You don't need to know who they are, or where they are, to do >> that. Your own "higher forces" will know those details. >I read it, I liked it, I printed it out to save it, and it has since >disappeared. I have to go do it again. Just keep in mind that the "positive effects" of that prayer depends on how often you say it, (at least daily is my recommendation, some find "every hour" better. It depends on the individual situation) how much you mean what you say, and how strong (how many) people "oppose" you. You can "discuss" the prayer, during your sleep state, with your own guides of the light. You do NOT need to go consciously OOB to do this. >> Negative people both alive, and dead, do not like light/love. So they >> tend to want to move away from people doing this to them. Isn't this >> what you want to do ? Move these attackers away ? >But of course! Conversely, it "attracts" positive people. Alive as well as dead. >> In addition it also reduces the negative energies of such people. Not >> only does this mean you reduce their ability to adversely affect you >> but you also make it harder for them to hurt others too. Lastly, this >> can also, in time, result in the person moving onto the spirit world >> and leaving everyone alone. >I will try it next time I am aware of my "guests". That is a "reactive" approach IMO. I suggest a more "pro-active" one. Direct love, and light, to everyone, alive and dead, in/around you/your house. This approach has more effect in stopping negative experiences BEFORE they occur. Why let "them" run your life ? :-) >> >I have had physical things done to me by spirits before. I >> >have woken up with bite marks on my shoulders, bruises I >> >can't explain, and the worse was after I made the mistake >> >of challenging one to show himself, I woke up with burning >> >welts all over my body, I could actually watch them >> >spreading up to my face. It "appeared" to be an allergic >> >reaction, I was rushed to the hospital and given >> >epinepherine and steroids to control the swelling. They >> >tested me for just about everything, and found nothing. >> Hardly surprising. Psychic attack can lead to a weakening of the aura, >> which in turn can result in increased illness, but in your case I >> would be more inclined to think your problem had more "psychic" >> content than "physical". >Can you elaborate on this point? Often one "reacts" to psychic things *physically*. Stress is often a good example of this. If one is feeling threatened/overwhelmed/ constrained/limited on psychic levels then one will often reply with a *physical* reaction. Other examples of manifestations of a *physical* type are what you experienced. Many "imagined" (psychosomatic) illnesses are not imagined at all. They are perfectly "real". Though on psychic levels. That is why doctors often cannot "cure" many psychic people of certain problems. They are, so to speak, looking for the kitchen sink in the bedroom. To "properly" treat a psychic problem/disease/disability/situation one needs to acknowledge that "level" of the person's existence, and then use "appropriate" remedies. Many people in fact (as I say in my booklet) have "psychic invalidism. Being an invalid due to things in/going on in one's aura. >> >While in the hospital, the welts receded and I could breath >> >normally again. >> Not surprising. The hospital would have a number of "positive energy" >> people in it. Possibly making it less welcoming for your spirit >> associates. Some spirits will also not want to leave a house. Out of concern that they might not find their way "home" again. >> >When my family brought me home, and I put >> >one foot in the house, they came back all at once. >> They may have a "connection" with the house and/or energy lines where >> the house is situated. They could also be associated with someone >> living there.... but you haven't mentioned alcoholics, druggies, etc. >> living with you so I don't know about that. >I always felt that the house was "sacreligious", like it was wrong to >have the house there. Sometimes places are poorly situated, in the sense of being poorly aspected in regard to ley lines etc. Feng Shui can help in this type of situation. >My parents bought it new, in a new development >in North Royalton, Ohio in 1973. I researched it and found no Indian >burial grounds, no cemetaries, etc...in the area. Such situations can be the result of Atlantian, Lemurian, or other activities. They can also be due to the attitudes/energies of the people involved in the design/buiding/selling/financing of the estate. >> >This >> >torture went on for three miserable days. Back to the ER, >> >and they would leave. Come home, and bam..they're back. >> >You could feel the heat radiating off these welts. I never >> >went through anything like that again. >> >This was done by the "black ghost", the one that tormented >> >me for over 13 years. >> >This is why I have fear. Not all spirits scare me, but >> >some just radiate evil, and those are the ones that terrify >> >me. >> How often are you aware of the ones that radiate love ? How often do >> you raise your own vibrations ? What process do you use ? >Radiate love? That would be a first for me. Not surprised to hear that. That is a major part of the reason for your current situation. Someone who seldom uses an umbrella shouldn't be surprised if they get wet from time to time. Someone without an umbrella is likely to get even wetter ! :-) >Except for my Uncle Jimmy >who used to come to warn me whenever I was in danger, rarely. I was more suggesting that you radiate love outwards, not receive it. To properly do the former however one is often helped by remembering the latter. >I don't know how to raise my vibrtions. The more you think/act positively the more you raise them. Uplifting music helps too. How many "skinheads" for example do you think like classical music ? Carols ? etc. Such music can do more "clearing" of a house than a bus load of (incompetent) priests for example. Using the "white light"/flaming techniques I have mentioned before helps too. Constant "high vibration" music should make your house very "unwelcome" to negative entities. Add prayer, flowers, laughter etc. and things will become markedly changed. I suggest other things in my booklet but that is a "start" for you. >> >I have been doing banishing rituals, and blessing my house >> >on my own. Most of the phenomena has quieted down, except >> >for the ear tickling and the business with my face. Right >> >now they are touching me, and I can feel the abscesses >> >forming on my jawline. Sigh. >> Persistent opposition is best countered with persistent counter >> measures. It would help if you detailed your "banishing ritual" and >> method of "blessing". >Hmm... I took Holy Water and went through my house saying, "I bless >this house in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. No >spirits are welcome here, you must all leave." Not even good ones ? Besides, you are a spirit (in a body). Where did you direct them to go when they left your house ? Next door ? Your poor neighbours ! :-( > I then used banishing >insence, along with frankincense and myrhh and did the same thing. >Last night the ear tickling was keeping me awake, so I lit some more >banishing incense, and the tickling became relentless. What happened when you "flamed" your ears ? >> >Did you see the pics I posted in ABP? >> No, some of my I.S.P.s don't have that newsgroup. This I.S.P. I am >> using here limits MB downloading so I haven't been in a hurry to look >> at graphics. Perhaps you could remind me of the header of the post, >> and the date, and I will see if I can find it ? >Ghost horse and orbs is one, Hand in fire and hundreds of orbs is the >other, I think. Okay, I will see if I can manage to find it. It might have been deleted by now. Most I.S.P.s have a short binary retention time. >> >What do you think of >> >them? After the original two, I decided to try an >> >experiment. I purposely tried to photograph them, and I >> >did. I can't believe the picture with hundreds of orbs. >> >The next day, I did it in daylight. This time, 20 out of >> >20 pictures showed faces in the flames. >> If what you were photographing were "negative" entities then >> photographing them is not such a good idea. It tends to make "their" >> energy more "real" in your psyche. Kind of like having a voodoo doll. >> that an enemy has made, in your house. It might be better not to have >> it ! >> On the other hand you CAN turn such situations around. You COULD >> concentrate on (figurative) voodoo doll, or photo, and imagine >> light/love going to all the people represented by these things (i.e. >> the people photographed, the curse makers etc). >Another trick I will try.> All part of changing your "focus" to a more positive one. Your approach has previously not only affected yourself but also denied help to those in the physical, and non physical, world that you are meant to be helping. Don't forget the bad times. Those experiences will better "enable" you to understand/help others. The temptation is to try and forget everything as quickly/thoroughly as possible, as you "turn things around". >> >I even tried to photograph different parts of the inside of >> >my house, and got nothing. Nothing on the outside of the >> >house either. But, the flames are where they are deciding >> >to appear. >> Different areas have differing psychic concentrations. >> >What should my first step be John? I have tried contacting >> >a spiritualist organisation, and they told me that there is >> >no such thing as evil spirits, just undeveloped good ones. >> >This I find ridiculous. Sorry. I know better. >> Yes, it is sad that the spiritualist association you managed to >> contact was so (apparently) unhelpful. Have you tried others ? I >> suggest you pray for Divine guidance in finding an "appropriate" >> spiritualist group/church. Do this night after night. >> You "may" however need to do a bit of travelling to get somewhere >> worthwhile. This is why it is all the more important that YOU learn to >> deal with these things properly. There are many thousands of people >> like you. Many cannot ask questions in newsgroups. Maybe YOU could >> help many of these people ? Maybe you are MEANT TO help many of >> these people ? >> Anyone can be a nurse. Not anyone can do effective spirit rescue work. < snip > >> P.S. Even your (unhelpful) spiritualist group may be of help to you. >> Not everyone in a church agrees with how it is run. If you go to their >> services then you at least should understand more about spirit guides >> than you do now. You will also possibly come across someone "in the >> audience" who has had (and overcome ?) situations like yours. >> Don't be in too much of a hurry to dismiss them. Maybe your presence >> there would serve to teach THEM something ? I could add that you are meant to be running a Spiritualist group/church, rather than attending one, but that may be a secret and I will not point that out yet. Until you are "ready" for such "news" learn from others. :-) >> Many people are "in denial" about negative spirit influence. That >> includes many spiritualists. You can help such people to "wake up". >> The day that you see your situation as a "blessing", rather than a >> "curse", is the day that.........watch out world....! :-) >I will be moving back to my childhood home soon, my mother is very ill. >I am not looking forward to this at all. You should be REGULARLY thinking/imagining a hot, bright, golden (or white) light filling up your house PRIOR to your returning physically to it. Not only can one set about "clearing" a house/person(s) when not close to them but often this approach is a "preferred" option. When *in* a negative situation it is usually very difficult, or impossible, to have positive ideas etc. > I just lost my father last year. I hope that you have remembered to send him love/light/healing energies ? This can greatly help people to safely/quickly reach the spirit world. >Anyway, there are only 5 Spiritualist Churches in Ohio, Sounds like a "need" out there. I believe that 30 is a "good age" for people to start these sorts of groups. < he he > >and they are all hundreds of miles away. I can go to 5 Spiritualist churches within 20 miles of me. Have you ever wondered whether you are living in the "wrong" country ? :-) >The Spiritualist Newsgroup was no >help to me. I will keep searching. Good. I find that my posts tend not to reach that newsgroup, or someone there is not allowing my posts through. :-( >Love and Light, >Daniela Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Message-ID: <37EFF54D.18199A44@ibm.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:53:01 -0400 From: Philip Cone Reply-To: prcone@ibm.net Organization: The Cone & Lan Estate X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: zh-CN,en,zh-TW MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.37.124.41 X-Trace: 27 Sep 1999 22:56:32 GMT, 129.37.124.41 Lines: 13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prserv.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed2.us.ibm.net!ibm.net!news3.prserv.net!129.37.124.41 John Fitzsimons wrote: >[snipped a lot] > Using the "white light"/flaming techniques I have mentioned before > helps too. > [snipped] For the Psalmist says: In my meditation a fire flames out. Cheers, Philip ###### From: imdaniela Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Message-ID: <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> Lines: 27 Bytes: 1081 X-Originating-Host: 208.254.178.90 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> X-Wren-Trace: eFx5UVBJDkQPFUVQWBJUUEJObFFWTBFLUFwdXFpFBU4DAlIPB0gHAwcFFgAC Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:42:32 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.15 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon3 938515094 10.0.2.15 (Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:38:14 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:38:14 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news-out.supernews.com.MISMATCH!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!WReNclone!WReNphoon3.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Dear John, When I send the spirits away during my banishing rituals, I tell them to go to the Light, to God who is waiting for them and will remove all their pain and suffering. I have been visualizing bright white light as much as I can. The phenomena has not stopped here, but has quieted down some. The ear tickling is not as intense, it occurs now every couple of days instead of daily. Last night, I had two spirit visitors stand on either side of the doorway I told you about, and just stare at me. I asked who they were and what they wanted, but got nothing. They didn't scare me at all. I feel I am making progress here, thanks to all of the help I have found. Sometimes, I like to listen to New Age music. That seems to be very relaxing to me. I'll play that more often. I don't know if I could handle Christian music all day long myself. :o) Again, thanks for all you help. Daniela * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:37:02 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 350 Message-ID: <7sq5bd$onm$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967240.justice.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news4.svr.pol.co.uk 938514605 25334 195.92.4.56 (28 Sep 1999 10:30:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Sep 1999 10:30:05 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail John Fitzsimons wrote in message <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com>... >On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:30:45 GMT, Porch Firestarter a.k.a. Crow Wolf > wrote: > >>In article , > >> John Fitzsimons wrote: > >>> On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:32:43 -0700, imdaniela >>> wrote: > >Hi Daniela, > >>> >I know we haven't agreed much since I first posted this, >>> >but I need to ask you a few questions. First, do you think >>> >that I would be safe if I actively persue the spirits >>> >instead of waiting for the phenomena to occur on their own? > >>> Certainly. But what I mean and what you mean may be different. This is >>> the reason I keep asking you questions. There is little point in >>> talking at cross purposes. It not only doesn't help you/others but it >>> can result in more confusion for people. > >>> If you read the prayer on my vicnet site then you will see that I >>> suggest that you direct love/light to people who are working against >>> you. You don't need to know who they are, or where they are, to do >>> that. Your own "higher forces" will know those details. > >>I read it, I liked it, I printed it out to save it, and it has since >>disappeared. I have to go do it again. > >Just keep in mind that the "positive effects" of that prayer depends >on how often you say it, (at least daily is my recommendation, some >find "every hour" better. It depends on the individual situation) how >much you mean what you say, and how strong (how many) people >"oppose" you. > >You can "discuss" the prayer, during your sleep state, with your own >guides of the light. You do NOT need to go consciously OOB to do this. > >>> Negative people both alive, and dead, do not like light/love. So they >>> tend to want to move away from people doing this to them. Isn't this >>> what you want to do ? Move these attackers away ? > >>But of course! > >Conversely, it "attracts" positive people. Alive as well as dead. > >>> In addition it also reduces the negative energies of such people. Not >>> only does this mean you reduce their ability to adversely affect you >>> but you also make it harder for them to hurt others too. Lastly, this >>> can also, in time, result in the person moving onto the spirit world >>> and leaving everyone alone. > >>I will try it next time I am aware of my "guests". > >That is a "reactive" approach IMO. I suggest a more "pro-active" one. >Direct love, and light, to everyone, alive and dead, in/around >you/your house. > >This approach has more effect in stopping negative experiences >BEFORE they occur. Why let "them" run your life ? :-) > >>> >I have had physical things done to me by spirits before. I >>> >have woken up with bite marks on my shoulders, bruises I >>> >can't explain, and the worse was after I made the mistake >>> >of challenging one to show himself, I woke up with burning >>> >welts all over my body, I could actually watch them >>> >spreading up to my face. It "appeared" to be an allergic >>> >reaction, I was rushed to the hospital and given >>> >epinepherine and steroids to control the swelling. They >>> >tested me for just about everything, and found nothing. > >>> Hardly surprising. Psychic attack can lead to a weakening of the aura, >>> which in turn can result in increased illness, but in your case I >>> would be more inclined to think your problem had more "psychic" >>> content than "physical". > >>Can you elaborate on this point? > >Often one "reacts" to psychic things *physically*. Stress is often a >good example of this. If one is feeling threatened/overwhelmed/ >constrained/limited on psychic levels then one will often reply with a >*physical* reaction. Other examples of manifestations of a *physical* >type are what you experienced. > >Many "imagined" (psychosomatic) illnesses are not imagined at all. >They are perfectly "real". Though on psychic levels. That is why >doctors often cannot "cure" many psychic people of certain problems. >They are, so to speak, looking for the kitchen sink in the bedroom. > >To "properly" treat a psychic problem/disease/disability/situation one >needs to acknowledge that "level" of the person's existence, and then >use "appropriate" remedies. Many people in fact (as I say in my >booklet) have "psychic invalidism. Being an invalid due to things >in/going on in one's aura. > >>> >While in the hospital, the welts receded and I could breath >>> >normally again. > >>> Not surprising. The hospital would have a number of "positive energy" >>> people in it. Possibly making it less welcoming for your spirit >>> associates. > >Some spirits will also not want to leave a house. Out of concern that >they might not find their way "home" again. > >>> >When my family brought me home, and I put >>> >one foot in the house, they came back all at once. > >>> They may have a "connection" with the house and/or energy lines where >>> the house is situated. They could also be associated with someone >>> living there.... but you haven't mentioned alcoholics, druggies, etc. >>> living with you so I don't know about that. > >>I always felt that the house was "sacreligious", like it was wrong to >>have the house there. > >Sometimes places are poorly situated, in the sense of being poorly >aspected in regard to ley lines etc. Feng Shui can help in this type >of situation. > >>My parents bought it new, in a new development >>in North Royalton, Ohio in 1973. I researched it and found no Indian >>burial grounds, no cemetaries, etc...in the area. > >Such situations can be the result of Atlantian, Lemurian, or other >activities. > >They can also be due to the attitudes/energies of the people involved >in the design/buiding/selling/financing of the estate. > >>> >This >>> >torture went on for three miserable days. Back to the ER, >>> >and they would leave. Come home, and bam..they're back. >>> >You could feel the heat radiating off these welts. I never >>> >went through anything like that again. > >>> >This was done by the "black ghost", the one that tormented >>> >me for over 13 years. > >>> >This is why I have fear. Not all spirits scare me, but >>> >some just radiate evil, and those are the ones that terrify >>> >me. > >>> How often are you aware of the ones that radiate love ? How often do >>> you raise your own vibrations ? What process do you use ? > >>Radiate love? That would be a first for me. > >Not surprised to hear that. That is a major part of the reason for >your current situation. Someone who seldom uses an umbrella shouldn't >be surprised if they get wet from time to time. Someone without an >umbrella is likely to get even wetter ! :-) > >>Except for my Uncle Jimmy >>who used to come to warn me whenever I was in danger, rarely. > >I was more suggesting that you radiate love outwards, not receive it. >To properly do the former however one is often helped by remembering >the latter. > >>I don't know how to raise my vibrtions. > >The more you think/act positively the more you raise them. Uplifting >music helps too. How many "skinheads" for example do you think like >classical music ? Carols ? etc. Such music can do more "clearing" of a >house than a bus load of (incompetent) priests for example. > >Using the "white light"/flaming techniques I have mentioned before >helps too. > >Constant "high vibration" music should make your house very >"unwelcome" to negative entities. Add prayer, flowers, laughter etc. >and things will become markedly changed. I suggest other things in my >booklet but that is a "start" for you. > >>> >I have been doing banishing rituals, and blessing my house >>> >on my own. Most of the phenomena has quieted down, except >>> >for the ear tickling and the business with my face. Right >>> >now they are touching me, and I can feel the abscesses >>> >forming on my jawline. Sigh. > >>> Persistent opposition is best countered with persistent counter >>> measures. It would help if you detailed your "banishing ritual" and >>> method of "blessing". > >>Hmm... I took Holy Water and went through my house saying, "I bless >>this house in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. No >>spirits are welcome here, you must all leave." > >Not even good ones ? Besides, you are a spirit (in a body). > >Where did you direct them to go when they left your house ? Next >door ? Your poor neighbours ! :-( > >> I then used banishing >>insence, along with frankincense and myrhh and did the same thing. >>Last night the ear tickling was keeping me awake, so I lit some more >>banishing incense, and the tickling became relentless. > >What happened when you "flamed" your ears ? > >>> >Did you see the pics I posted in ABP? > >>> No, some of my I.S.P.s don't have that newsgroup. This I.S.P. I am >>> using here limits MB downloading so I haven't been in a hurry to look >>> at graphics. Perhaps you could remind me of the header of the post, >>> and the date, and I will see if I can find it ? > >>Ghost horse and orbs is one, Hand in fire and hundreds of orbs is the >>other, I think. > >Okay, I will see if I can manage to find it. It might have been >deleted by now. Most I.S.P.s have a short binary retention time. > >>> >What do you think of >>> >them? After the original two, I decided to try an >>> >experiment. I purposely tried to photograph them, and I >>> >did. I can't believe the picture with hundreds of orbs. >>> >The next day, I did it in daylight. This time, 20 out of >>> >20 pictures showed faces in the flames. > >>> If what you were photographing were "negative" entities then >>> photographing them is not such a good idea. It tends to make "their" >>> energy more "real" in your psyche. Kind of like having a voodoo doll. >>> that an enemy has made, in your house. It might be better not to have >>> it ! > >>> On the other hand you CAN turn such situations around. You COULD >>> concentrate on (figurative) voodoo doll, or photo, and imagine >>> light/love going to all the people represented by these things (i.e. >>> the people photographed, the curse makers etc). > >>Another trick I will try.> > >All part of changing your "focus" to a more positive one. Your >approach has previously not only affected yourself but also denied >help to those in the physical, and non physical, world that you are >meant to be helping. > >Don't forget the bad times. Those experiences will better "enable" you >to understand/help others. The temptation is to try and forget >everything as quickly/thoroughly as possible, as you "turn things >around". > >>> >I even tried to photograph different parts of the inside of >>> >my house, and got nothing. Nothing on the outside of the >>> >house either. But, the flames are where they are deciding >>> >to appear. > >>> Different areas have differing psychic concentrations. > >>> >What should my first step be John? I have tried contacting >>> >a spiritualist organisation, and they told me that there is >>> >no such thing as evil spirits, just undeveloped good ones. >>> >This I find ridiculous. Sorry. I know better. > >>> Yes, it is sad that the spiritualist association you managed to >>> contact was so (apparently) unhelpful. Have you tried others ? I >>> suggest you pray for Divine guidance in finding an "appropriate" >>> spiritualist group/church. Do this night after night. > >>> You "may" however need to do a bit of travelling to get somewhere >>> worthwhile. This is why it is all the more important that YOU learn to >>> deal with these things properly. There are many thousands of people >>> like you. Many cannot ask questions in newsgroups. Maybe YOU could >>> help many of these people ? Maybe you are MEANT TO help many of >>> these people ? > >>> Anyone can be a nurse. Not anyone can do effective spirit rescue work. > >< snip > > >>> P.S. Even your (unhelpful) spiritualist group may be of help to you. >>> Not everyone in a church agrees with how it is run. If you go to their >>> services then you at least should understand more about spirit guides >>> than you do now. You will also possibly come across someone "in the >>> audience" who has had (and overcome ?) situations like yours. > >>> Don't be in too much of a hurry to dismiss them. Maybe your presence >>> there would serve to teach THEM something ? > >I could add that you are meant to be running a Spiritualist >group/church, rather than attending one, but that may be a secret >and I will not point that out yet. > >Until you are "ready" for such "news" learn from others. :-) > >>> Many people are "in denial" about negative spirit influence. That >>> includes many spiritualists. You can help such people to "wake up". >>> The day that you see your situation as a "blessing", rather than a >>> "curse", is the day that.........watch out world....! :-) > >>I will be moving back to my childhood home soon, my mother is very ill. >>I am not looking forward to this at all. > >You should be REGULARLY thinking/imagining a hot, bright, golden (or >white) light filling up your house PRIOR to your returning physically >to it. > >Not only can one set about "clearing" a house/person(s) when not close >to them but often this approach is a "preferred" option. When *in* a >negative situation it is usually very difficult, or impossible, to >have positive ideas etc. > >> I just lost my father last year. > >I hope that you have remembered to send him love/light/healing >energies ? This can greatly help people to safely/quickly reach the >spirit world. > >>Anyway, there are only 5 Spiritualist Churches in Ohio, > >Sounds like a "need" out there. I believe that 30 is a "good age" for >people to start these sorts of groups. < he he > > >>and they are all hundreds of miles away. > >I can go to 5 Spiritualist churches within 20 miles of me. Have you >ever wondered whether you are living in the "wrong" country ? :-) > >>The Spiritualist Newsgroup was no >>help to me. I will keep searching. > >Good. I find that my posts tend not to reach that newsgroup, or >someone there is not allowing my posts through. :-( > >>Love and Light, > >>Daniela > >Regards, John. > >-- > **************************************************** > ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. > / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 > \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm > v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ This is all very sound advice from John, Daniela. If you follow it through determinedly, and seek deeply within yourself, I believe that your search for help from this torment will be ended. Love to you and Richard, Lilliana and your baby. . . and of course to your dogs and cats ###### Message-ID: <37F162D9.8740C780@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:52:41 -0400 From: Philip Cone Reply-To: prcone@ibm.net Organization: The Cone & Lan Estate X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: zh-CN,en,zh-TW MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <37EFF54D.18199A44@ibm.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.37.246.190 X-Trace: 29 Sep 1999 00:56:21 GMT, 129.37.246.190 Lines: 26 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prserv.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!cyclone.pbi.net!165.87.194.248!newsfeed.us.ibm.net!ibm.net!news3.prserv.net!129.37.246.190 John Fitzsimons wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:53:01 -0400, Philip Cone > wrote: > >For the Psalmist says: In my meditation a fire flames out. > Interesting. Could you give us a more exact reference ? > Which psalm ? :-) Try the Catholic Bible, it's not on-line, and it's not in the King James Bible. I got the quotation from the prolog of: THE SPIRITUAL EXERCISES OF ST. IGNATIUS OF LOYOLA "As the Christian religion cannot long subsist without some spiritual exercises and meditations -- for the Psalmist says: In my meditation a fire flames out -- I think none more appropriate than these, which undoubtedly have had their source in the study of the Scriptures and in long experience. Fr. Aegidius Foscararius, Master of the Sacred Palace" http://ccel.wheaton.edu/ignatius/exercises/exercises.html Cheers! Philip ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <37EFF54D.18199A44@ibm.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:43:30 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938565706 203.87.22.203 (Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:46 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:53:01 -0400, Philip Cone wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote: >>[snipped a lot] >> Using the "white light"/flaming techniques I have mentioned before >> helps too. >> [snipped] >For the Psalmist says: In my meditation a fire flames out. Interesting. Could you give us a more exact reference ? Which psalm ? :-) Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 71 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:43:30 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938565707 203.87.22.203 (Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:41:47 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:42:32 -0700, imdaniela wrote: Dear Daniela, >When I send the spirits away during my banishing rituals, I >tell them to go to the Light, to God who is waiting for >them and will remove all their pain and suffering. Good. That is a good process for YOU to do, but I would think twice about it in regard to the spirit people. Some spirits don't believe in a God and "might" feel happier if you suggested that a dead friend/relative of theirs would come to collect them if they were to look upwards towards the light. For people who DO believe in a God I suggest you would get an even better result than you have had in the past by getting THEM to ask God to help. Consider this as another "approach" : Suggest to the person that, rather than "banishing" them (bad connotations), that IF they feel sick, lonely, depressed, lost etc. that THEY say/think something like "God help me". IMO this will achieve more than you saying that. Obviously both you, and they, can do that. The latter however helps them to feel more "in control" of their destiny. A good "habit" for them to get into as well as helping their self esteem. > I have >been visualizing bright white light as much as I can. The >phenomena has not stopped here, but has quieted down some. >The ear tickling is not as intense, What happens when you radiate a hot, bright, light out of your ear(s) at that time ? >it occurs now every >couple of days instead of daily. Last night, I had two >spirit visitors stand on either side of the doorway I told >you about, and just stare at me. What happened when you directed a hot, bright, light at them ? > I asked who they were and >what they wanted, but got nothing. They didn't scare me at >all. I feel I am making progress here, thanks to all of >the help I have found. Just a matter of asking a few questions.......and finding someone with some answers. :-) >Sometimes, I like to listen to New Age music. That seems >to be very relaxing to me. I'll play that more often. I >don't know if I could handle Christian music all day long >myself. :o) How about "classical" ? Also, any music that makes you feel gay/happy would help. >Again, thanks for all you help. >Daniela Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: Daniela Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:48:56 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 64 Message-ID: <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.27.178.63 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Sep 29 10:48:56 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x31.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.27.178.63 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDimdaniela Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail In article , John Fitzsimons wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:42:32 -0700, imdaniela > wrote: > > Dear Daniela, > > >When I send the spirits away during my banishing rituals, I > >tell them to go to the Light, to God who is waiting for > >them and will remove all their pain and suffering. > > Good. That is a good process for YOU to do, but I would think twice > about it in regard to the spirit people. Some spirits don't believe in > a God and "might" feel happier if you suggested that a dead > friend/relative of theirs would come to collect them if they were to > look upwards towards the light. > > For people who DO believe in a God I suggest you would get an even > better result than you have had in the past by getting THEM to ask God > to help. Consider this as another "approach" : > > Suggest to the person that, rather than "banishing" them (bad > connotations), that IF they feel sick, lonely, depressed, lost etc. > that THEY say/think something like "God help me". > > IMO this will achieve more than you saying that. Obviously both you, > and they, can do that. The latter however helps them to feel more "in > control" of their destiny. A good "habit" for them to get into as well > as helping their self esteem. > Makes sense John, I will try it this way. > > I have > >been visualizing bright white light as much as I can. The > >phenomena has not stopped here, but has quieted down some. > >The ear tickling is not as intense, > > What happens when you radiate a hot, bright, light out of your ear(s) > at that time ? I didn't think to try to imagine it coming out my ear. I have been practicing grounding myself and surrounding me and the kids with white light. > > >it occurs now every > >couple of days instead of daily. Last night, I had two > >spirit visitors stand on either side of the doorway I told > >you about, and just stare at me. > > What happened when you directed a hot, bright, light at them ? That, I didn't think to try, but will next time. > Daniela -- "...All is quiet before the storm, by: Daniela Mays As spirits around me start to form. Porch Firestarter Through my veins the past does flow- and life-long As the future happened years ago." Ghost Magnet. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Lan Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0b13 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:27:43 +0100 Message-ID: X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.63.198 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 938629684 16942 194.112.32.19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail In article <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com>, imdaniela wrote: >Dear John, > >When I send the spirits away during my banishing rituals, I >tell them to go to the Light, to God who is waiting for >them and will remove all their pain and suffering. I have >been visualizing bright white light as much as I can. The >phenomena has not stopped here, but has quieted down some. >The ear tickling is not as intense, it occurs now every >couple of days instead of daily. Last night, I had two >spirit visitors stand on either side of the doorway I told >you about, and just stare at me. I asked who they were and >what they wanted, but got nothing. They didn't scare me at >all. I feel I am making progress here, thanks to all of >the help I have found. > >Sometimes, I like to listen to New Age music. That seems >to be very relaxing to me. I'll play that more often. I >don't know if I could handle Christian music all day long >myself. :o) > >Again, thanks for all you help. Tell them to fuck off and die. Thats what Id do. -- My website: http://members.tripod.com/LanTheBoy Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 |)>Sigh<(| ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.folklore.ghost-stories,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:37:29 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.253 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938648144 203.87.22.253 (Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:35:44 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:35:44 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:48:56 GMT, Daniela wrote: >In article , > John Fitzsimons wrote: < snip > >> What happens when you radiate a hot, bright, light out of your ear(s) >> at that time ? >I didn't think to try to imagine it coming out my ear. I have been >practicing grounding myself and surrounding me and the kids with white >light. I thought you had been to my web site and read the info on psychic protection ? To quote from there : "imagine oneself filled with (and radiating) a hot, bright, golden light. Like one is a miniature sun." >> >it occurs now every >> >couple of days instead of daily. Last night, I had two >> >spirit visitors stand on either side of the doorway I told >> >you about, and just stare at me. >> What happened when you directed a hot, bright, light at them ? >That, I didn't think to try, but will next time. Good. I had thought that we had discussed radiating light outwards a number of times already. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:05:37 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967178.people.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 938725135 27976 195.92.3.118 (30 Sep 1999 20:58:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Sep 1999 20:58:55 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Thank you John for your kindness and generosity of spirit towards this lady and her children Love carol ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:27:48 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938741160 203.87.22.150 (Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:26:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 11:26:00 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.axxsys.net!nntp.abs.net!newsfeed.nyu.edu!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:05:37 +0100, wrote: >Thank you John for your kindness and generosity of spirit towards this lady >and her children >Love carol Thanks Carol. There is much more involved here than Daniela. Her comments/questions are helping other people as well. Many of them possibly "lurkers". If more "earthbound" people can be helped more often/efficiently and more physical people can generate positive energies/responses than before........then I believe that we are likely to end up with a better world. :-) It reminds me of when I first came across "spirit rescue" work back in the '70s. Some of the first people helped were children. Raped, killed with an axe etc. I wondered why "someone" wasn't helping them. Until it was pointed out that * I * was "someone". It still amazes me just how callous so many people are when they come across earthbound people. I wonder if they would be as "uncaring" if they knew some of the "ghosts" that they found so "amusing" were their own parents, children etc. ? Particularly if they had of had a violent death. I expect some of these people will probably (karmically) require a period of being earthbound themselves before they start thinking about the pain, suffering, misery often felt by earthbound people. I have even come across supposed "Ghost busters" who were more interested in their "fun" than in helping the physical, and non physical, people involved. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:17:27 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 73 Message-ID: <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967232.people.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 938808623 16151 195.92.3.64 (1 Oct 1999 20:10:23 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Oct 1999 20:10:23 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail John Fitzsimons wrote in message <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com>... >On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:05:37 +0100, >wrote: > >>Thank you John for your kindness and generosity of spirit towards this lady >>and her children > >>Love carol > >Thanks Carol. There is much more involved here than Daniela. Her >comments/questions are helping other people as well. Many of them >possibly "lurkers". > >If more "earthbound" people can be helped more often/efficiently and >more physical people can generate positive energies/responses than >before........then I believe that we are likely to end up with a >better world. :-) > >It reminds me of when I first came across "spirit rescue" work back in >the '70s. Some of the first people helped were children. Raped, killed >with an axe etc. I wondered why "someone" wasn't helping them. Until >it was pointed out that * I * was "someone". > >It still amazes me just how callous so many people are when they come >across earthbound people. I wonder if they would be as "uncaring" if >they knew some of the "ghosts" that they found so "amusing" were their >own parents, children etc. ? Particularly if they had of had a violent >death. > >I expect some of these people will probably (karmically) require a >period of being earthbound themselves before they start thinking about >the pain, suffering, misery often felt by earthbound people. I have >even come across supposed "Ghost busters" who were more interested >in their "fun" than in helping the physical, and non physical, people >involved. > >Regards, John. > >-- > **************************************************** > ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. > / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 > \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm > v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ I couldn't agree with you more John. Most of the 'interest' in earthbound spirits is less than helpful, in fact it can be so negative that I find it far more ghoulish and disconcerting than I do any poor tormented soul. A competent medium would always help these spirits to freedom rather than 'banish', as you well understand because of your work. Where there is awareness, Heaven and Earth work together with this, but I do believe it takes specialized knowledge. I am sure that you didn't just take up 'candle and book' . . . . a great deal of giving of oneself in time and effort is involved and there isn't a fancy ritual on the planet that will cut corners on that. I can remember when I was a child, going into the water to save someone and then remembering that I couldn't swim! (Good job I can laugh at myself doing something silly. . . there is such ample opportunity!) I have to raise my own consciousness to know how to make a difference. I believe that it is even possible for people to have 'personalities' of their own past lives that are not at peace, and hence in their present incarnation there is unresolved trauma. Love carol ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 85 Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:50:27 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938818228 203.87.22.151 (Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:50:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:50:28 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:17:27 +0100, wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote in message <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com>... < snip > >>It still amazes me just how callous so many people are when they come >>across earthbound people. I wonder if they would be as "uncaring" if >>they knew some of the "ghosts" that they found so "amusing" were their >>own parents, children etc. ? Particularly if they had of had a violent >>death. >>I expect some of these people will probably (karmically) require a >>period of being earthbound themselves before they start thinking about >>the pain, suffering, misery often felt by earthbound people. I have >>even come across supposed "Ghost busters" who were more interested >>in their "fun" than in helping the physical, and non physical, people >>involved. < snip > >I couldn't agree with you more John. Most of the 'interest' in earthbound >spirits is less than helpful, in fact it can be so negative that I find it >far more ghoulish and disconcerting than I do any poor tormented soul. True, many "ghost" researchers are very short on the "compassion" and very long on the "self interest". >A competent medium would always help these spirits to freedom rather than >'banish', as you well understand because of your work. Yep. >Where there is >awareness, Heaven and Earth work together with this, but I do believe it >takes specialized knowledge. I am sure that you didn't just take up 'candle >and book' . . . . True, at times I have been involved in "rescue circles" EVERY DAY of the week. Some of those days involved two, or three circles in the one day. I have found it difficult at times to tell victims of concentration camps etc. to "come back for help at some other time". >a great deal of giving of oneself in time and effort is >involved and there isn't a fancy ritual on the planet that will cut corners >on that. True, but the fact that people think that they can learn such things properly over the internet, or via a book, without first hand practical training, usually suggests the degree of (lack of) real interest people have in helping distressed discarnate people. Most physical people see these discarnates as "nuisances" rather than "opportunities" to assist one's fellow man. >I can remember when I was a child, going into the water to save someone and >then remembering that I couldn't swim! Nice one. :-) > (Good job I can laugh at myself >doing something silly. . . there is such ample opportunity!) I have to >raise my own consciousness to know how to make a difference. True, but most people don't know how to do that or if they do don't want to bother. >I believe that it is even possible for people to have 'personalities' of >their own past lives that are not at peace, and hence in their present >incarnation there is unresolved trauma. True, that is why one should direct love/light to one's parrakeet selves. In other lifetimes that are currently being lived, in the spirit world, and also to any "earthbound" selves. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 09:04:37 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 10 Message-ID: <37f5c9ed.647181@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userau31.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 938852066 22474 62.188.137.233 (2 Oct 1999 08:14:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Oct 1999 08:14:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:50:27 +1000, John Fitzsimons wrote: >True, that is why one should direct love/light to one's parrakeet >selves. Um, what is a 'parakeet self'? Lurid, squawky, repetative, caged... sounds problematical... all best wishes, Julia. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: 02 Oct 1999 20:57:46 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 114 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 John Fitzsimons hath writen: > > On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:17:27 +0100, > wrote: > > >John Fitzsimons wrote in message <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com>... > > >>It still amazes me just how callous so many people are when they come > >>across earthbound people. Me not. Most people either simply regard ghosts as non-existant (and people who report them as crazy) or regard them as interesting non-understood phenomena (in am physical sense), not as persons. I would most likely also, had I not a) read an book about them abd b) be an regular reader on a.oob. > >>I wonder if they would be as "uncaring" if > >>they knew some of the "ghosts" that they found so "amusing" were their > >>own parents, children etc. ? They would most likely even be caring if they simply took in mentally, that ghosts are people. No need for them to be of same family. > >>I expect some of these people will probably (karmically) require a > >>period of being earthbound themselves before they start thinking about > >>the pain, suffering, misery often felt by earthbound people. Or simply a bit more insight into what a ghost is. > >>even come across supposed "Ghost busters" who were more interested > >>in their "fun" than in helping the physical, and non physical, people > >>involved. Well, that is most likely because ghosts simply are strange phenomena for them. So thay take the point of: definitely not usable for profit, so what to do with them other than have fun with them? > >a great deal of giving of oneself in time and effort is > >involved and there isn't a fancy ritual on the planet that will cut corners > >on that. > > True, but the fact that people think that they can learn such things > properly over the internet, or via a book, Perhaps because many things can be learned (or at least prepared for) by reading. So why should ghosts be regarded as different by someone who does not know yet anything about them? > without first hand practical training, With the amount of oportunities an average person has to meet an ghost or an experienced ghost helper, most never get any training. Most are total beginners because they have no chance to be anything else. And no, I have met neither up until now, nor do I know anyone who has done either, with the exeption of some a.oob-ers. > usually suggests the degree of (lack of) real > interest people have in helping distressed discarnate people. Or more likely an lack of knowledge in what to do. Just compare this with most peoples treatment of disabled people: they do not know what to do, paired with an undercurrent of fear. Leads to avoiding with an sheepish grin. > physical people see these discarnates as "nuisances" rather than > "opportunities" to assist one's fellow man. Most people just want to be left to get on with their lives. Anything that gets in the way of that (including ghosts) is seen as an nuissance. That an nuissance can be an opportunity to learn how to treat the particular nuissance is usually not valued, given that one had no interest of learning that anyway. And for the "fellow man", as said, most people have not internalised that yet (or even heard of it). So it does not enter their behaviour. > >doing something silly. . . there is such ample opportunity!) I have to > >raise my own consciousness to know how to make a difference. > > True, but most people don't know how to do that or if they do don't > want to bother. Most do not see themselves as being here for raising conciousness. Most just want to get on with this life thing that has been thrown at them. What? They entered physical life to accelerate learning? They have forgotten that, long ago. Just a small reminder to you as an professional: Most people live in an world that looks a lot different than the one you know. The french have an beautifull term for this: deformation professionelle. And yes, I am playing devils advocate. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: smoque@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 01:26:27 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <7t6bbv$hao$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.31.110.37 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Oct 03 01:26:27 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.0 (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x39.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 38.31.110.37 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsmoque Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail I like this statement, and will keep it in mind: > Just a small reminder to you as an professional: Most people live > in an world that looks a lot different than the one you know > > -- > Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > -- Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: References: <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <37f5c9ed.647181@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:46:47 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.122 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938908004 203.87.22.122 (Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:46:44 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:46:44 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Sat, 02 Oct 1999 09:04:37 GMT, hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >On Sat, 02 Oct 1999 08:50:27 +1000, John Fitzsimons > wrote: >>True, that is why one should direct love/light to one's parrakeet >>selves. > Um, what is a 'parakeet self'? Lurid, squawky, repetative, >caged... sounds problematical... Maybe I was thinking of "birds" at the time I wrote that ? You wouldn't be the first lady I have come across who might suggest that I was thinking too much about "birds". < he he > Now, apart from parrakeets sending love/light to their other parrakeet selves I ALSO suggest that people send love/light to their parallel selves. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Message-ID: References: <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 145 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:46:47 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.122 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938908005 203.87.22.122 (Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:46:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 09:46:45 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On 02 Oct 1999 20:57:46 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: >John Fitzsimons hath writen: >> On Fri, 1 Oct 1999 21:17:27 +0100, >> wrote: >> >John Fitzsimons wrote in message <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com>... >> >>It still amazes me just how callous so many people are when they come >> >>across earthbound people. >Me not. Most people either simply regard ghosts as non-existant Rather an odd opinion IMO. Pretty much every culture on earth has a long history of seeing/feeling/communicating with ghosts. Why would someone choose to ignore such a long, and common, history of reports ? Added to that many religions teach that there is life after death. >(and >people who report them as crazy) or regard them as interesting >non-understood phenomena (in am physical sense), not as persons. >I would most likely also, had I not a) read an book about them abd b) >be an regular reader on a.oob. Some people don't believe in OOBs either. However I would suggest that the reporting of ghosts is far more common than reporting of OOBs. Common enough IMO to suggest the "likelihood" of them existing even if one has no definite proof themselves. >> >>I wonder if they would be as "uncaring" if >> >>they knew some of the "ghosts" that they found so "amusing" were their >> >>own parents, children etc. ? >They would most likely even be caring if they simply took in mentally, >that ghosts are people. No need for them to be of same family. True. >> >>I expect some of these people will probably (karmically) require a >> >>period of being earthbound themselves before they start thinking about >> >>the pain, suffering, misery often felt by earthbound people. >Or simply a bit more insight into what a ghost is. Well, I would think that the assumption that a ghost was simply someone who was dead would be the most immediate "likely" explanation IMO. >> >>even come across supposed "Ghost busters" who were more interested >> >>in their "fun" than in helping the physical, and non physical, people >> >>involved. >Well, that is most likely because ghosts simply are strange phenomena >for them. So thay take the point of: definitely not usable for profit, >so what to do with them other than have fun with them? Well, if someone were to want to go "ghost hunting" then I would think that the most obvious question to ask before doing anything is ask oneself "What is a ghost". Surely a reasonably immediate "logical" answer would be "someone who is dead" ? >> >a great deal of giving of oneself in time and effort is >> >involved and there isn't a fancy ritual on the planet that will cut corners >> >on that. >> True, but the fact that people think that they can learn such things >> properly over the internet, or via a book, >Perhaps because many things can be learned (or at least prepared for) >by reading. So why should ghosts be regarded as different by someone >who does not know yet anything about them? Probably because things to do with the psyche and/or psychic are seldom overly simple. People spend years to become psychiatrists, or psychologists, why expect psychic things to be different ? >> without first hand practical training, >With the amount of oportunities an average person has to meet an ghost >or an experienced ghost helper, most never get any training. Most are >total beginners because they have no chance to be anything else. >And no, I have met neither up until now, nor do I know anyone who has >done either, with the exeption of some a.oob-ers. You must walk in different circles than I do. < he he > Pretty well all my friends see and/or communicate with ghosts. Isn't that "normal" ? :-) >> usually suggests the degree of (lack of) real >> interest people have in helping distressed discarnate people. >Or more likely an lack of knowledge in what to do. Well, many of these supposed "ghost hunters" call themselves "Christians" etc. Yet their first thought doesn't appear to be "This could be someone in distress, I think I will pray for them." >Just compare this with most peoples treatment of disabled people: they >do not know what to do, paired with an undercurrent of fear. Leads to >avoiding with an sheepish grin. Helping disabled people may require specialist training. One doesn't need extensive training to pray for someone in distress. >> physical people see these discarnates as "nuisances" rather than >> "opportunities" to assist one's fellow man. >Most people just want to be left to get on with their lives. Anything >that gets in the way of that (including ghosts) is seen as an >nuissance. Yes, many people see other people's problems as a nuisance. >That an nuissance can be an opportunity to learn how to treat the >particular nuissance is usually not valued, given that one had no >interest of learning that anyway. Fine, but some people go looking for ghosts. If they have time to do that then why not attempt to help them when they are found ? >And for the "fellow man", as said, most people have not internalised >that yet (or even heard of it). So it does not enter their behaviour. Yes, I think that a strong argument could be offered that people are primarily selfish. That would certainly explain why so few people are interested in helping discarnate people in distress. < snip > >And yes, I am playing devils advocate. Yep, and I am playing devils advocate to the devils advocate. :-) Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: 03 Oct 1999 22:29:26 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 12 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uyadk89y1.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <7t6bbv$hao$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 smoque@my-deja.com writes: > > Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. Could you translate that? I know what the Tuatha de Danann are (the irish version of elves, oops elfs for non-Tolkienists), but what does the first bit say about them? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: 03 Oct 1999 22:49:15 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 137 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uwvt48910.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 John Fitzsimons writes: > > On 02 Oct 1999 20:57:46 +0200, Neil Franklin > wrote: > > >Me not. Most people either simply regard ghosts as non-existant > > Rather an odd opinion IMO. Pretty much every culture on earth has a > long history of seeing/feeling/communicating with ghosts. Why would > someone choose to ignore such a long, and common, history of reports ? > Added to that many religions teach that there is life after death. One today widely spread religion, know as Scientism, denies there existance. Simply declares them to be imaginations. > >I would most likely also, had I not a) read an book about them abd b) > >be an regular reader on a.oob. > > Some people don't believe in OOBs either. However I would suggest that > the reporting of ghosts is far more common than reporting of OOBs. Not common enought to ensure everyone believing in them, aparently. > Common enough IMO to suggest the "likelihood" of them existing even > if one has no definite proof themselves. When the priest, eh "scientist", says so... > >Or simply a bit more insight into what a ghost is. > > Well, I would think that the assumption that a ghost was simply > someone who was dead would be the most immediate "likely" > explanation IMO. For someone who has experienced one at first hand perhaps. But for people with only 3rd party report of an report of an report ... the idea of them being simply some funny effect seems to be acceptable. Or they are immediately regarded as something evil, to be destroyed as fast as possible. > >Well, that is most likely because ghosts simply are strange phenomena > >for them. So thay take the point of: definitely not usable for profit, > >so what to do with them other than have fun with them? > > Well, if someone were to want to go "ghost hunting" then I would think > that the most obvious question to ask before doing anything is ask > oneself "What is a ghost". Most sensation-seekers could not care what the sensation is made by. And many of an more scientifical bent have an "first record it, then speculate" attitude. (Note that they are still trying to prove the existance of the phenomen ("it may exist, we will find out"). Most never get further than that, because the ghost does not show itsself to them.) > Surely a reasonably immediate "logical" > answer would be "someone who is dead" ? For those who have observed them or at least researched into them, yes. > >Perhaps because many things can be learned (or at least prepared for) > >by reading. So why should ghosts be regarded as different by someone > >who does not know yet anything about them? > > Probably because things to do with the psyche and/or psychic are > seldom overly simple. People spend years to become psychiatrists, or > psychologists, why expect psychic things to be different ? Perhaps because the belief in ghost=psychic is not (yet) there? > >And no, I have met neither up until now, nor do I know anyone who has > >done either, with the exeption of some a.oob-ers. > > You must walk in different circles than I do. < he he > Mostly engineers, computer hackers and architects. All "down to earth" types of people. The nearest to my "unusual" interests in the paranormal is my sister (does Reiki). > Pretty well > all my friends see and/or communicate with ghosts. Isn't that > "normal" ? :-) Interesting... Must be some circle of friends that ;-). > >do not know what to do, paired with an undercurrent of fear. Leads to > >avoiding with an sheepish grin. > > Helping disabled people may require specialist training. One doesn't > need extensive training to pray for someone in distress. What most people do not know... Based on the one book (ehm...) I have read about them, I would simply try to talk to them (hoping on them to be able to mind read). But I would have to simply wait and see if I can make anything out of the response. > >Most people just want to be left to get on with their lives. Anything > >that gets in the way of that (including ghosts) is seen as an > >nuissance. > > Yes, many people see other people's problems as a nuisance. Particularly if the nuissance is not even seen to be an person. > >That an nuissance can be an opportunity to learn how to treat the > >particular nuissance is usually not valued, given that one had no > >interest of learning that anyway. > > Fine, but some people go looking for ghosts. If they have time to do > that then why not attempt to help them when they are found ? "Looking for" does not imply "intent to solve problem". > >And yes, I am playing devils advocate. > > Yep, and I am playing devils advocate to the devils advocate. :-) Cc: devil@hell.org, or ist that .com or .gov :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### Message-ID: <37F7D0F0.AF17D552@Home.com> From: heaven eye Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <7t6bbv$hao$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 6 Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 21:47:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.226.43.9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc2.on.home.com 938987241 24.226.43.9 (Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:47:21 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 14:47:21 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.usit.net!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail smoque@my-deja.com wrote: > > Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. > Interesting. Can you tell us what language this is, and what it means? TienYen ###### From: smoque@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:05:33 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <7t9jjr$g5m$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <7t6bbv$hao$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <6uyadk89y1.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.27.181.39 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Oct 04 07:05:33 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x23.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 38.27.181.39 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsmoque Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail One translator of Manx said, "Immortal of...." I best like the one I was told here, "Forever with..." In article <6uyadk89y1.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > smoque@my-deja.com writes: > > > > Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. > > Could you translate that? > > I know what the Tuatha de Danann are (the irish version of elves, oops > elfs for non-Tolkienists), but what does the first bit say about them? > > -- > Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > -- Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: smoque@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.folklore.ghost-stories Subject: Re: Living with ghosts for 29 years, advice please Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:07:50 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <7t9jo4$g64$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <065f8722.cf61b286@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <002e299c.d9d56da8@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7sgcg5$dcg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <=JTtN0QrfaXWn1Oo==3kxzreykTA@4ax.com> <03e6ae67.22eabe32@usw-ex0102-015.remarq.com> <7ssqqm$qt1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7t0iuf$ra8$3@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <4PXzN1Xq3+5vzaLC=XbGl1k+oJsu@4ax.com> <7t34ff$fon$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <6uso3tegk5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <7t6bbv$hao$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <37F7D0F0.AF17D552@Home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 38.27.181.39 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Oct 04 07:07:50 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x23.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 38.27.181.39 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsmoque Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail "Immortal of the People of the goddess Danu", or "Forever with the People of the goddess Danu" in the Manx (Isle of Man) dialect. In article <37F7D0F0.AF17D552@Home.com>, heaven eye wrote: > smoque@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. > > > Interesting. Can you tell us what language this is, and what it means? > TienYen > -- Neuvaasoil le Tuatha de Danann. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.