From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation Subject: Meditation and OBE Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:03:54 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Hi Everyone, I decided to take up meditation for a while, I don't exactly remember the reason. It's been a couple of months and I noticed something interesting. The more I meditate, the less I have lucid dreams and OBEs. So, what's the deal with that? Anyone know? Am I making a poor connection there or is this really the case: the more one meditates, the less one pays attention to the dreams? Then, I've been incredibly busy, maybe it has more to do with my level of activity than my meditation practices. I am curious and would like input from people who meditate frequently, which in my mind is like at least once a day for 1/2 hour or so. The other thought was that maybe I'm doing something not quite right and instead of getting more "awake," I am actually putting myself to sleep. Heh, heh. I don't know, it was just a thought. Any input would be helpful. Claire ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation Subject: Re: Meditation and OBE Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:27:57 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <7s978h$ae6$1@pheidippides.axion.bt.co.uk> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Reice Sosoe wrote in message <7s978h$ae6$1@pheidippides.axion.bt.co.uk>... >Hi Claire, > >> I decided to take up meditation for a while, I don't exactly remember >the >> reason. It's been a couple of months and I noticed something interesting. >> The more I meditate, the less I have lucid dreams and OBEs. So, what's the >> deal with that? Anyone know? Am I making a poor connection there or is >this >> really the case: the more one meditates, the less one pays attention to >the >> dreams? > >What type of mediatation do you perform? > >In other words, what do you do while meditating? > I have a VERY ACTIVE mind, so I try to reach still point where I recognize thoughts and emotions but am not "led" by them into longwinded "wild goose chases." I try to still my mind, and reach the point where I am beyond thought and emotion but I am me. Which, of course, is almost impossible for me. Hee, hee. Still point is the term I would use, even though I don't know if it is actually a meditation practice. It is beneficial for me because I tend to overanalyze things and this is one way to realize I am not my thoughts, I am me. I am not very good at it, but it is worthwhile in that I practice not relying on my thoughts or emotions for a period of time. I took this up as a means to release some of the "overanalyzing" tendencies I have but I didn't get it from a book or anything. At least, not that I can remember. Is there something not quite right about this? Claire ###### From: "Reice Sosoe" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation Subject: Re: Meditation and OBE Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:16:19 +0100 Organization: BT Adastral Park, Martlesham Heath, Ipswich, UK Lines: 26 Message-ID: <7s978h$ae6$1@pheidippides.axion.bt.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 132.146.128.227 X-Trace: pheidippides.axion.bt.co.uk 937959505 10694 132.146.128.227 (22 Sep 1999 00:18:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@axion.bt.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Sep 1999 00:18:25 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newspeer.ebone.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!btnet-feed2!btnet!bt !not-for-mail Hi Claire, > I decided to take up meditation for a while, I don't exactly remember the > reason. It's been a couple of months and I noticed something interesting. > The more I meditate, the less I have lucid dreams and OBEs. So, what's the > deal with that? Anyone know? Am I making a poor connection there or is this > really the case: the more one meditates, the less one pays attention to the > dreams? What type of mediatation do you perform? In other words, what do you do while meditating? Yours, Reice Sosoe ------------------------------------------------------ Astral Projection, A Practical Guide http://go.to/astral ------------------------------------------------------ ###### From: "John Greene" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation Subject: Re: Meditation and OBE Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 01:57:57 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 45 Message-ID: References: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!attmtf!ip.att.net!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail My experience goes like this: There are two kinds of meditation. Concentration and nonconcentration. In the first I focus my attention upon some specific thing. In the second I do the opposite. The first makes my attention pointy and still. The second make it spacious and fuzzy. I've had some weird dream experiences from doing concentration but when I'm doing alot of nonconcentration I definitely lucid dream a ton. If the technique you employ gets you "pointy" or "sharp" maybe what you're doing is what I call concentration. If that's the case, look into nonconcentration. It's also called "Asamprajanata Dyhana" by Patanjali and "Concentration without an object" or "Objectless concentration" or "Mindfulness" by some other people. I think it also corrosponds to what's called "Zazen". If you've only done concentration up to now (I did just concentration for about 6 years until I discovered nonconcentration) then you're in for a big fat suprise. (BTW concentration+nonconcentration is potent. Like chocolate+peanutbutter or wind+windchime.) -J claire wrote in message ... >Hi Everyone, > > I decided to take up meditation for a while, I don't exactly remember the >reason. It's been a couple of months and I noticed something interesting. >The more I meditate, the less I have lucid dreams and OBEs. So, what's the >deal with that? Anyone know? Am I making a poor connection there or is this >really the case: the more one meditates, the less one pays attention to the >dreams? > > Then, I've been incredibly busy, maybe it has more to do with my level of >activity than my meditation practices. I am curious and would like input >from people who meditate frequently, which in my mind is like at least once >a day for 1/2 hour or so. The other thought was that maybe I'm doing >something not quite right and instead of getting more "awake," I am actually >putting myself to sleep. Heh, heh. I don't know, it was just a thought. Any >input would be helpful. > >Claire > > ###### From: "Robert Moss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation Subject: Re: Meditation and OBE Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:44:54 -0400 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 39 Message-ID: <7sa8rq$8bg$1@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.68.109 X-Trace: bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net 937993914 8560 12.79.68.109 (22 Sep 1999 09:51:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Sep 1999 09:51:54 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!attmtf!ip.att.net!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster2!not-for-mail Excellent distinction and discussion. Thankyou. I think of your "nonconcentration" as "relaxed attention" or "focussed relaxation" (although some meditators might call it mindfulness). I find it especially rewarding to relax into this state on the cusp between sleep and waking (or in an easy chair on a quiet afternoon). Pretty soon images will rise and fall. We can let them go or pick one as a doorway into conscious dreaming. Perhaps there is another question related to Claire's original one. It concerns the difference between between the separation of consciousness from the body and the expansion of consciousness to include a larger and larger field. Through mind expansion (of the type that some advanced meditators may practice) it is possible to go far beyond the body without necessarily separating from the body. It is also possible to survey a whole scene with 360-degree perception, as if awareness is simultaneously at all points on the perimeter of a sphere. I describe personal experiences of this kind, as well as some suggestions for attaining them, in my book "Dreamgates" . All good dreams Robert Moss email robert@mossdreams.com website www.mossdreams.com John Greene wrote in message ... > My experience goes like this: There are two kinds of meditation. >Concentration and nonconcentration. In the first I focus my attention upon >some specific thing. In the second I do the opposite. The first makes my >attention pointy and still. The second make it spacious and fuzzy. > I've had some weird dream experiences from doing concentration but when >I'm doing alot of nonconcentration I definitely lucid dream a ton. If the >technique you employ gets you "pointy" or "sharp" maybe what you're doing is >what I call concentration. If that's the case, look into nonconcentration. >It's also called "Asamprajanata Dyhana" by Patanjali and "Concentration >without an object" or "Objectless concentration" or "Mindfulness" by some >other people. I think it also corrosponds to what's called "Zazen". > If you've only done concentration up to now (I did just concentration >for about 6 years until I discovered nonconcentration) then you're in for a >big fat suprise. ###### From: ".Nisaba Merrieweather" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation References: Subject: Re: Meditation and OBE Lines: 31 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Organization: Internet Primus Message-ID: <938051437.947752@diddley.primus.com.au> Cache-Post-Path: diddley.primus.com.au!unknown@gsf-0103-246.ports.primus.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:37:21 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.0.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 938051437 203.134.0.92 (Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:50:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:50:37 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail G'dday. claire wrote in message ... > I decided to take up meditation for a while, I don't exactly remember the >reason. It's been a couple of months and I noticed something interesting. >The more I meditate, the less I have lucid dreams and OBEs. So, what's the >deal with that? The spiritual work you need to do, can be done in a variety of ways. If you have previously been used to doing it (consciously or not) in dreamstates or in out of body work, and now you introduce meditative trance as a new working state, there is perhaps less work left for you to do using your older methods. In time, the novelty will wear off, and you will find that your magical mind will distribute the work you need to do about evenly through the three methods of working. ... And all that's best of Dark and Bright meet in Her aspect and Her eyes. .Nisaba Merrieweather nisaba@primus.com.au ICQ: 40506438 To subscribe to Herb_and_healing or to Ozradical, the mailing list for direct action, go to www.onelist.com ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.meditation Subject: Re: Meditation and OBE Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:32:52 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 48 Message-ID: References: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.tli.de!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Well, here's an update, I skipped a day of meditation and had a OBE-like lucid dream. Peculiar, no? In it, I left my house and was just roaming around. I had an intention to go somewhere up North to see what might need to be done over in the flooded areas. From what I understand some areas of North Carolina were devastated by the latest hurricane. Earthen dams broke and a few towns got inudated. People not only lost possessions but some their lives as well. The news doesn't show much but I have heard it from various people who know people who live in those areas. At any rate, I was thinking about leaving when I noticed a rather odd thing about the Earth around the area I was in. There was a line, like a crack in the earth, and there was light like electricity spraying out of it in small sprays here and there. The line glowed where it was. I was debating whether to cross it or not but realizing electrical lines can be major hassles while OBE, and since I hadn't decided yet whether I was dreaming or OBE, I decided to leave it alone. I went straight up instead. Sometimes, I will see things in the sky but I have never seen anything like this on the ground before. Very strange. Claire claire wrote in message ... >Hi Everyone, > > I decided to take up meditation for a while, I don't exactly remember the >reason. It's been a couple of months and I noticed something interesting. >The more I meditate, the less I have lucid dreams and OBEs. So, what's the >deal with that? Anyone know? Am I making a poor connection there or is this >really the case: the more one meditates, the less one pays attention to the >dreams? > > Then, I've been incredibly busy, maybe it has more to do with my level of >activity than my meditation practices. I am curious and would like input >from people who meditate frequently, which in my mind is like at least once >a day for 1/2 hour or so. The other thought was that maybe I'm doing >something not quite right and instead of getting more "awake," I am actually >putting myself to sleep. Heh, heh. I don't know, it was just a thought. Any >input would be helpful. > >Claire > >