From: "Frédéric Michaud" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: The "reality" of the physical plane Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:49:29 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.200.9.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@videotron.net X-Trace: wagner.videotron.net 937284607 24.200.9.32 (Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:50:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:50:07 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nyu.edu!wesley.videotron.net!wagner.videotron.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi all, When OOB in the physical plane, there is always something different that does not fit with the "real" reality. By example, the light is not the same (sunny vs cloudy), some things changed places, colours don't match, etc. Why? Does it means that what we call the physical plane is only a plane made up by our imagination? Also, anyone have an idea how (the mecanism) we can see/ear/touch/smell/taste while OOB, since we don't have any of our 5 sens? I wonder if these differences with reality are real (there is no physical plane while OOB - it's imagination) or only a misinterpretation of our "OOB sens". Frelvis P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm a french speaker. ###### From: "Robert Moss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The "reality" of the physical plane Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:38:07 -0400 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 26 Message-ID: <7rmq6d$11e$1@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net> <7rmmc9$4in$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.166.37 X-Trace: bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net 937356301 1070 12.79.166.37 (15 Sep 1999 00:45:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Sep 1999 00:45:01 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster2!not-for-mail From my observation, in OBEs close to the physical plane we encounter a "counterpart" reality quite close to the physical, but with interesting differences. In my book "Dreamgates", I describe a "scouting: expedition in which I journeyed OBE to visit a house I had never seen the day before I made the physical trip. I saw a porch that was no longer there - but had been until a decade before - a sort of astral/energy "ghost". And in my OBE perception the floorplan of the house was reversed, as in a mirror. Apart from this, my OBE perception was accurate in interesting detail. Good journeys! Robert email robert@mossdreams.com website www.mossdreams.com > >Frédéric Michaud wrote in message >>When OOB in the physical plane, there is always something different that >>does not fit with the "real" reality. By example, the light is not the same >>(sunny vs cloudy), some things changed places, colours don't match, etc. >> >>Why? ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The "reality" of the physical plane Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:30:51 -0400 Organization: Netcom Lines: 73 Message-ID: <7rmsvh$dv7@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> References: <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-06.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 14 8:32:33 PM CDT 1999 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news Frédéric Michaud wrote in message <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net>... >Hi all, > >When OOB in the physical plane, there is always something different that >does not fit with the "real" reality. By example, the light is not the same >(sunny vs cloudy), some things changed places, colours don't match, etc. While I was in the Navy and first starting to do this, I was often dissappointed that I would pop out in the tiny little space I was meditating in, and then float through the walls, out on deck, to find it dark - with stars in the sky (even though it was the middle of the day when I actually did the excercise). I've since come to understand that the Astral is another dimension. It is not the physical. You can inadvertantly pop out in any time frame - even a mixture of times. For example, I floated out on to the deck one afternoon and looked into a night time, star lit, sky. I saw an image of my future job. I had no idea what this image was that was falling out of a star. It wasn't until much later that I saw the exact same image on the monitor of a piece of medical equipment I was working on in my new career as a field engineer. The Astral is very pliable in that it will quickly reproduce images that can be found in your unconscious mind. The astral is also the emotional dimension of your mind. It is a very large area of your life which contains all of your animal sex drive, most of your day to day thoughts, and any beginning religious notions you may have. All of these things can interfere with your ability to see the physical as it really is. The Astral is not the only other level of consciousness beyond the physical. There are many others. With each level you gain access to another stage of clarity and personal discipline over the lower levels (if you choose to excercise this discipline by respecting and acting on your own accomplishment - many, including myself, do not do this with any great success). >Does it means that what we call the physical plane is only a plane made up >by our imagination? No. The physical is made up from God's imagination. We are only singular points of view of God looking at Itself. Until we discipline ourselves within these realizations, we will have very little control over our experience. Though all of reality may live within us, available to our control, it is doubtful that we can have any real control until we learn to control ourselves on an individual basis in accordance to what we have learned about our own internal emotional, mental, and spiritual functions. >Also, anyone have an idea how (the mecanism) we can >see/ear/touch/smell/taste while OOB, since we don't have any of our 5 sens? We have more than 5 senses while in the physical. We also have the sense of gravity, space, time, emotion, and spirituality. >I wonder if these differences with reality are real (there is no physical >plane while OOB - it's imagination) or only a misinterpretation of our "OOB >sens". I would say this is true, however, it is best to respect the illusion of the physical until you have mastered emotion and found a strong anchor in spirituality. Easy to see and say... Not so easy to accomplish. So-called "psychic powers" are available, but they are not always reliable and they don't offer any serious advancement for the practitioner. The only way to see and control reality is to identify and control yourself. Bart ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The "reality" of the physical plane Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:45:58 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 40 Message-ID: <7rmmc9$4in$3@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967178.folklore.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 937352393 4695 195.92.5.246 (14 Sep 1999 23:39:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 1999 23:39:53 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Frédéric Michaud wrote in message <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net>... >Hi all, > >When OOB in the physical plane, there is always something different that >does not fit with the "real" reality. By example, the light is not the same >(sunny vs cloudy), some things changed places, colours don't match, etc. > >Why? > >Does it means that what we call the physical plane is only a plane made up >by our imagination? Also, anyone have an idea how (the mecanism) we can >see/ear/touch/smell/taste while OOB, since we don't have any of our 5 sens? >I wonder if these differences with reality are real (there is no physical >plane while OOB - it's imagination) or only a misinterpretation of our "OOB >sens". > >Frelvis > >P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm a french speaker. Bonjour Frelvis - and don't worry about your English because what you are asking is very interesting. I had often told myself that what I was convinced was OBE at the time couldn't have been because things were not exactly identical. I understand the experience better now. I suppose it depends on what you call reality. The here and now, another dimension, the dream time - what do you measure it by? I don't believe that OOBE is imagination, or merely a slightly inaccurate memory of what this World should look like, but that's not an opinion that I would ever 'push' because until people investigate enough for themselves they don't believe it any way. Love carol ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The "reality" of the physical plane Message-ID: References: <3ukD3.1338$Q61.52415@wagner.videotron.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.524 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 47 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:17:34 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.22.107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 937437378 203.87.22.107 (Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:16:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:16:18 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:49:29 -0400, "Frédéric Michaud" wrote: >Hi all, >When OOB in the physical plane, there is always something different that >does not fit with the "real" reality. By example, the light is not the same >(sunny vs cloudy), some things changed places, colours don't match, etc. >Why? Numerous reasons. Non physical reality is often created by people's current/past thoughts. They may not coincide with current physical reality. >Does it means that what we call the physical plane is only a plane made up >by our imagination? Certainly. Everything is imagination. If things weren't imagined then nothing could exist. The "creative aspect" of ourselves, often termed our "God self", or centre, ensures that we create "appropriate" realities and the "appropriate" forms to occupy them. >Also, anyone have an idea how (the mecanism) we can >see/ear/touch/smell/taste while OOB, since we don't have any of our 5 sens? The mechanism is the use of one's psychic perceptions. There are more than 5 non physical senses. >I wonder if these differences with reality are real (there is no physical >plane while OOB - it's imagination) or only a misinterpretation of our "OOB >sens". Either. Does a radio station cease existing when your radio is "focussed" on another one ? In that case the former station, effectively, ceases to exist. Though, of course, it still does exist. An *apparent* paradox. :-) Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/