Message-ID: <37DB7AFB.7314C1F0@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:05:47 +1000 From: Craig Shillington Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Pineal doorway References: <7qjmqh$o3v$1@starburst.uk.insnet.net> <7qpini$566$4@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D12AA2.67350DF1@the.end.of.the.message> <7qtore$2pv$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D385BD.B53C3E4F@the.end.of.the.message> <7r1909$l5l$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D81B59.96DFB831@the.end.of.the.message> <7rc7ha$7ik$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.39 X-Trace: 13 Sep 1999 03:32:19 +1000, 203.87.38.39 Lines: 214 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.abs.net!uunet!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.39 carol@isle.swinternet.co.uk wrote: > > Craig Shillington wrote in message > <37D81B59.96DFB831@the.end.of.the.message>... > > > > > > > > >> I had misread what you had written, now I see what > >> >you saying. :-) I have this nagging twinge in the back of my mind > >> >though, that I actually read somewhere that we *may* actually dream > >> >during NREM sleep. If that is true, it throws all I have stated out the > >> >window. ;-) I know I have had LD's directly after experiencing > >> >hypnogogia, and I have heard that REM sleep doesn't take place that soon > >> >after crossing into sleep. So I assume LD's don't take place within REM > >> >at all times either. Hmmm, this is getting confusing. A LD, IMO, is > >> >simply a dream in which you know you are dreaming, so surely it must > >> >take place during REM.(?) But, there is the possibility that we get OOB > >> >or experience hypnogogia, without being conscious of the fact, but > >> >*remember* them as *dreams*, when in fact they are not dreams at all. > >> > >> We may be capable of doing several things at the same time! > >> > >> . . . it's interesting the way research and personal experience can > >> sometimes throw open more questions than answers! I often tell myself in > >> non-lucid dreams that nothing can hurt me because I'm astral! > > > > Hi Craig > > >Makes me wonder about the closeness of LD's and OBE's. I have a real > >hard time determining at what point my LD has turned into an OBE. > >Usually I'll separate from my physical 'dream' body during a LD, so that > >is confirmation enough for me about the shift in consciousness, yet I > >still find myself looking at my hands to see if they melt etc. to be > >sure I'm not still dreaming. The similarities between being in a LD and > >being OOB are striking, to say the least. Although, LD don't seem to > >have the 'realness' that OBE's have. > > No wonder this is such a fascinating subject! Just when we think we've got > it all 'sussed' . . . Oh, it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are always new questions popping up all the time. :-) I am continually questioning some other new experience, or some new sensation; going back over old things to see what I have learned (if anything) Searching, searching, searching. It's continual growth and I don't think it will even come close to ending in this physical lifetime. I think the physical is just the 'infancy' of all that there is to learn. :) We think we have a lot of questions *before* we have an OBE. WOW, lol, that's nothing if you ask me. ;-) There is a huge difference with the questions I am finding myself asking now though, I need to look further inside for the answers. :-) With a little help from my friends. :) > >> >That's just the way our mind is interpreting them for us because we > >> >weren't conscious of them 'at the time' they were happening. At that > >> >point, as far as we are concerned, they were indeed dreams for us, even > >> >though in reality they were not dreams. > >> > >> Perhaps it's our physical brains trying to rationalize the experience? > > > >Yes indeed, this is what I think may be happening. The physical brain > >wouldn't understand the concept of flying, walking through walls, shape > >shifting .... so it must have just been a dream. ;-) > > > >> >Ah, good! :-) I'm not the only one who sits and reads and nods and nods > >> >in agreement to a lot of the posts here. :-) Imagine if these > >> >experiences could be interpreted the same way for everyone, I guess > >> >then, we wouldn't have this NG because everyone would agree on what it > >> >is that is happening to us, rather than drawing from their own belief > >> >systems in order to 'interpret' what they feel is happening. :-) So many > >> >times I read things interpreted differently to how I experience them, > >> >but can still see how the experience is the same, none the less. :-) > >> > >> I believe that a high percentage of communication is telepathic, > >> especially about the transcendental - there aren't really the words > >> sometimes to describe the situation - most of our understanding in any > non > >> physical consciousness seems non verbal. > > > >True. Communicating with my cat was like that. I never heard a single > >'word' from him, yet I understood so much about what he was doing at the > >time. I knew he was happy, I knew he was trying to pull me out, I knew > >he was being cheeky etc. etc. Somehow we have access to all this > >information instantly while OOB. It's like you can just read the true > >thoughts and feelings from the entities that we interact with. I would > >guess this would be true most of the time, unless an entity somehow > >could block it's true feelings from us and project what they wanted us > >to feel from them. Dunno, just a thought. :-) > > OOB catalyst for all psi? Very possible Craig, I think you've hit on > something here - it can make using words cumbersome and limited by > comparison. Oh for sure Carol. I truly believe we use our psychic abilities while OOB, even if we don't realize it. Maybe we even learn how to bring that ability back into waking life someway as well. Probably because we are no longer physical while OOB, we still need to communicate; to touch, to see, to hear. How do we do this? Not with our physical senses. I don't think we *hear* or *see* or anything physical. We sense things and then interpret what we sense back to something related in the physical. If we had never ever been a physical entity *ever* we would not *hear* words, we would not *see* as we do. IMO, we process energy, or something of the astral, and interpret that information into something we can understand. Now, as we move more and more away from the physical, more deeper into ourselves, we find we no longer *see* things anyway. I have never been as far inside as I have heard others have, so I can only relate back to what I have read on this subject, but it fascinates me, the more inward we seem to move, the less we *see* as we do in the physical, the less we seem to even need to remember the physical. These realms seemed to be filled more with emotions, but how do you see an emotion? I guess we still process this information back to rudimentary physical things, but it's so much more abstract, so much more disassociated with the physical than I've ever experienced. 'Love' becomes colourful, warm, all enveloping for example. Maybe it's not love, maybe we are in a place that is colourful, warm; yet we know nothing that compares, the closest we can interpret it as is love. (?) And the further we seem to go, the more disassociated from the physical we seem to become, until such a state comes about that one wouldn't even want to return to the physical, one wouldn't even need to. Anyway, that's getting a little side tracked from the topic we were discussing. ;-) Yes, I agree, we are no longer physical while OOB, we need to learn to stop thinking in terms of the physical in order to understand just how we communicate etc. :-) It simply is not a physical thing we are doing. :-) > Without being judgemental, or at least trying not to about > something I feel passionately about, love and respect for animals seems to > co-relate to psychic sensitivity in some way that I don't fully understand. > But what you were just saying about your cat is helping me to put the > picture together, a piece in the jigsaw. Well I guess we communicate with our cats while physical anyway, using body language, I can see no reason why cats and animals and even vegetation for that matter, can't communicate using psychic abilities. Yes, I said vegetation. ;-) Studies have shown that some plants can actually somehow *inform* other plants of the same species, that there is danger around and to take protective measures. Can't quite remember where I read this now, but I'll never forget reading that. Also, studies have show that plants feel pain. :-( Pain is just a defence mechanism, even in us humans, but to think of a plant suffering pain really makes me think about some of the things I have done in my lifetime to inflict pain. Okay, I know plants don't *feel* pain as we do, but you know what I mean. ;-) Plants, IMO, may have a way to communicate, not only with other plants, but maybe even with us. Something to look into next time. Well, the time after next time I get out, I have other more important things I need to do first. :-) Hmmmm, now that I think about it, I better start writing down stuff I *need* to do next time I get out, they are really starting to build up. ;-) Soon, soon. :-) > >> >Talking about dreams, I had a dream last night that I wrote a reply to > >> >you Carol ..... without using my spell checker. Nasty stuff. ;-) > >> > >> It's so funny when you try to make sense of words and spelling in a > dream. > >> I think it's probably because the right brain is 'in gear'. . . much > faster > >> and more creative than the left brain but hopeless with spelling! > >> > >> Love and sweet dreams, carol > > > >My dreams have gone into overdrive lately. I seem to get my dreams in > >waves for some reason. At the moment I can remember much more detail > >about my dreams, then it will fade for a while so that most of the time > >they will be only vague memories. I think I am heading for an all > >important 'Great' dream some time soon. Here comes my inspiration and > >information on some questions I have. :-) I'd better start keeping > >notes. :-) > > Do we move nearer the source of our dreams? I used to be interested in > everything from tea leaves to tarot, wondered where the insights came from . > . . not pieces of card or shredded vegetation, surely? Deep inside us, what > knows? I do not believe it's an outside source. (I'm so glad that we can no > longer be boiled in oil for throwing ideas around, I would be Big Fries by > now) I find myself agreeing with so much of what you say Carol! (Nod, nod, yes, oh yes, nod.) I think we do find answers deep within us, all of us. Some are better at knowing how to *look* or find those answers. I still believe in the use of divination tools. That, quite simply is all they are, IMO, *tools*. THEY do not give us the answers to our questions, they simply help us with finding the answers from within ourselves. :-) Using these tools, and understanding why, or how to use them is the key, not looking at the answers *from* the tools we use, but looking at where the tools point and finding the answers there. :-) And we usually don't find answers anyway, but even more questions. ;-) Hell, this is the only place I can really express my feelings on these matter Carol, sad but true. I wouldn't get boiled or burnt, but ..... :-( > Love and keep dreaming, carol > P.S. Tell me if I'm nuts and right off track, but I seem to get a very > strong Native American connection from you, although you are Australian. Hmmmmm, can't say I know anything about the Native American connection Carol. I have a NA friend I write to and haven't written to in so long, maybe you are telling me something. :-) I feel a strong connection within myself to the Celtic people, or Ireland in particular. I don't know why, I've never really investigated why I feel this connection, maybe I should start looking at my past lives to figure out what that is? All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Pineal doorway Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:45:06 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 269 Message-ID: <7rmmc8$4in$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7qjmqh$o3v$1@starburst.uk.insnet.net> <7qpini$566$4@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D12AA2.67350DF1@the.end.of.the.message> <7qtore$2pv$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D385BD.B53C3E4F@the.end.of.the.message> <7r1909$l5l$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D81B59.96DFB831@the.end.of.the.message> <7rc7ha$7ik$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <37DB7AFB.7314C1F0@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967178.folklore.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 937352392 4695 195.92.5.246 (14 Sep 1999 23:39:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Sep 1999 23:39:52 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Craig Shillington wrote in message <37DB7AFB.7314C1F0@the.end.of.the.message>... > > >carol@isle.swinternet.co.uk wrote: >> >> Craig Shillington wrote in message >> <37D81B59.96DFB831@the.end.of.the.message>... >> > >> > >> >> > >> >> I had misread what you had written, now I see what >> >> >you saying. :-) I have this nagging twinge in the back of my mind >> >> >though, that I actually read somewhere that we *may* actually dream >> >> >during NREM sleep. If that is true, it throws all I have stated out the >> >> >window. ;-) I know I have had LD's directly after experiencing >> >> >hypnogogia, and I have heard that REM sleep doesn't take place that soon >> >> >after crossing into sleep. So I assume LD's don't take place within REM >> >> >at all times either. Hmmm, this is getting confusing. A LD, IMO, is >> >> >simply a dream in which you know you are dreaming, so surely it must >> >> >take place during REM.(?) But, there is the possibility that we get OOB >> >> >or experience hypnogogia, without being conscious of the fact, but >> >> >*remember* them as *dreams*, when in fact they are not dreams at all. >> >> >> >> We may be capable of doing several things at the same time! >> >> >> >> . . . it's interesting the way research and personal experience can >> >> sometimes throw open more questions than answers! I often tell myself in >> >> non-lucid dreams that nothing can hurt me because I'm astral! >> > >> >> Hi Craig >> >> >Makes me wonder about the closeness of LD's and OBE's. I have a real >> >hard time determining at what point my LD has turned into an OBE. >> >Usually I'll separate from my physical 'dream' body during a LD, so that >> >is confirmation enough for me about the shift in consciousness, yet I >> >still find myself looking at my hands to see if they melt etc. to be >> >sure I'm not still dreaming. The similarities between being in a LD and >> >being OOB are striking, to say the least. Although, LD don't seem to >> >have the 'realness' that OBE's have. >> >> No wonder this is such a fascinating subject! Just when we think we've got >> it all 'sussed' . . . > >Oh, it doesn't surprise me in the least that there are always new >questions popping up all the time. :-) I am continually questioning some >other new experience, or some new sensation; going back over old things >to see what I have learned (if anything) Searching, searching, >searching. It's continual growth and I don't think it will even come >close to ending in this physical lifetime. I think the physical is just >the 'infancy' of all that there is to learn. :) We think we have a lot >of questions *before* we have an OBE. WOW, lol, that's nothing if you >ask me. ;-) There is a huge difference with the questions I am finding >myself asking now though, I need to look further inside for the answers. >:-) With a little help from my friends. :) > >> >> >That's just the way our mind is interpreting them for us because we >> >> >weren't conscious of them 'at the time' they were happening. At that >> >> >point, as far as we are concerned, they were indeed dreams for us, even >> >> >though in reality they were not dreams. >> >> >> >> Perhaps it's our physical brains trying to rationalize the experience? >> > >> >Yes indeed, this is what I think may be happening. The physical brain >> >wouldn't understand the concept of flying, walking through walls, shape >> >shifting .... so it must have just been a dream. ;-) >> > >> >> >Ah, good! :-) I'm not the only one who sits and reads and nods and nods >> >> >in agreement to a lot of the posts here. :-) Imagine if these >> >> >experiences could be interpreted the same way for everyone, I guess >> >> >then, we wouldn't have this NG because everyone would agree on what it >> >> >is that is happening to us, rather than drawing from their own belief >> >> >systems in order to 'interpret' what they feel is happening. :-) So many >> >> >times I read things interpreted differently to how I experience them, >> >> >but can still see how the experience is the same, none the less. :-) >> >> >> >> I believe that a high percentage of communication is telepathic, >> >> especially about the transcendental - there aren't really the words >> >> sometimes to describe the situation - most of our understanding in any >> non >> >> physical consciousness seems non verbal. >> > >> >True. Communicating with my cat was like that. I never heard a single >> >'word' from him, yet I understood so much about what he was doing at the >> >time. I knew he was happy, I knew he was trying to pull me out, I knew >> >he was being cheeky etc. etc. Somehow we have access to all this >> >information instantly while OOB. It's like you can just read the true >> >thoughts and feelings from the entities that we interact with. I would >> >guess this would be true most of the time, unless an entity somehow >> >could block it's true feelings from us and project what they wanted us >> >to feel from them. Dunno, just a thought. :-) >> >> OOB catalyst for all psi? Very possible Craig, I think you've hit on >> something here - it can make using words cumbersome and limited by >> comparison. > >Oh for sure Carol. I truly believe we use our psychic abilities while >OOB, even if we don't realize it. Maybe we even learn how to bring that >ability back into waking life someway as well. Probably because we are >no longer physical while OOB, we still need to communicate; to touch, to >see, to hear. How do we do this? Not with our physical senses. I don't >think we *hear* or *see* or anything physical. We sense things and then >interpret what we sense back to something related in the physical. If we >had never ever been a physical entity *ever* we would not *hear* words, >we would not *see* as we do. IMO, we process energy, or something of the >astral, and interpret that information into something we can understand. >Now, as we move more and more away from the physical, more deeper into >ourselves, we find we no longer *see* things anyway. I have never been >as far inside as I have heard others have, so I can only relate back to >what I have read on this subject, but it fascinates me, the more inward >we seem to move, the less we *see* as we do in the physical, the less we >seem to even need to remember the physical. These realms seemed to be >filled more with emotions, but how do you see an emotion? I guess we >still process this information back to rudimentary physical things, but >it's so much more abstract, so much more disassociated with the physical >than I've ever experienced. 'Love' becomes colourful, warm, all >enveloping for example. Maybe it's not love, maybe we are in a place >that is colourful, warm; yet we know nothing that compares, the closest >we can interpret it as is love. (?) And the further we seem to go, the >more disassociated from the physical we seem to become, until such a >state comes about that one wouldn't even want to return to the physical, >one wouldn't even need to. Anyway, that's getting a little side tracked >from the topic we were discussing. ;-) Yes, I agree, we are no longer >physical while OOB, we need to learn to stop thinking in terms of the >physical in order to understand just how we communicate etc. :-) It >simply is not a physical thing we are doing. :-) >> Without being judgemental, or at least trying not to about >> something I feel passionately about, love and respect for animals seems to >> co-relate to psychic sensitivity in some way that I don't fully understand. >> But what you were just saying about your cat is helping me to put the >> picture together, a piece in the jigsaw. > >Well I guess we communicate with our cats while physical anyway, using >body language, I can see no reason why cats and animals and even >vegetation for that matter, can't communicate using psychic abilities. >Yes, I said vegetation. ;-) Studies have shown that some plants can >actually somehow *inform* other plants of the same species, that there >is danger around and to take protective measures. Can't quite remember >where I read this now, but I'll never forget reading that. Also, studies >have show that plants feel pain. :-( Pain is just a defence mechanism, >even in us humans, but to think of a plant suffering pain really makes >me think about some of the things I have done in my lifetime to inflict >pain. Okay, I know plants don't *feel* pain as we do, but you know what >I mean. ;-) Plants, IMO, may have a way to communicate, not only with >other plants, but maybe even with us. Something to look into next time. >Well, the time after next time I get out, I have other more important >things I need to do first. :-) Hmmmm, now that I think about it, I >better start writing down stuff I *need* to do next time I get out, they >are really starting to build up. ;-) Soon, soon. :-) > >> >> >Talking about dreams, I had a dream last night that I wrote a reply to >> >> >you Carol ..... without using my spell checker. Nasty stuff. ;-) >> >> >> >> It's so funny when you try to make sense of words and spelling in a >> dream. >> >> I think it's probably because the right brain is 'in gear'. . . much >> faster >> >> and more creative than the left brain but hopeless with spelling! >> >> >> >> Love and sweet dreams, carol >> > >> >My dreams have gone into overdrive lately. I seem to get my dreams in >> >waves for some reason. At the moment I can remember much more detail >> >about my dreams, then it will fade for a while so that most of the time >> >they will be only vague memories. I think I am heading for an all >> >important 'Great' dream some time soon. Here comes my inspiration and >> >information on some questions I have. :-) I'd better start keeping >> >notes. :-) >> >> Do we move nearer the source of our dreams? I used to be interested in >> everything from tea leaves to tarot, wondered where the insights came from . >> . . not pieces of card or shredded vegetation, surely? Deep inside us, what >> knows? I do not believe it's an outside source. (I'm so glad that we can no >> longer be boiled in oil for throwing ideas around, I would be Big Fries by >> now) > >I find myself agreeing with so much of what you say Carol! (Nod, nod, >yes, oh yes, nod.) I think we do find answers deep within us, all of us. >Some are better at knowing how to *look* or find those answers. I still >believe in the use of divination tools. That, quite simply is all they >are, IMO, *tools*. THEY do not give us the answers to our questions, >they simply help us with finding the answers from within ourselves. :-) >Using these tools, and understanding why, or how to use them is the key, >not looking at the answers *from* the tools we use, but looking at where >the tools point and finding the answers there. :-) And we usually don't >find answers anyway, but even more questions. ;-) Hell, this is the only >place I can really express my feelings on these matter Carol, sad but >true. I wouldn't get boiled or burnt, but ..... :-( > >> Love and keep dreaming, carol > >> P.S. Tell me if I'm nuts and right off track, but I seem to get a very >> strong Native American connection from you, although you are Australian. > >Hmmmmm, can't say I know anything about the Native American connection >Carol. I have a NA friend I write to and haven't written to in so long, >maybe you are telling me something. :-) I feel a strong connection >within myself to the Celtic people, or Ireland in particular. I don't >know why, I've never really investigated why I feel this connection, >maybe I should start looking at my past lives to figure out what that >is? > Maybe your friend needs you to get in touch? Or perhaps you have a NA guide you are as yet unaware of, or perhaps I am right off beam with my wires crossed! :o) LOL >All the best >Craig >-- >The sure way to make a thing impossible- > -is to think it so. --- Franklin > Hi Craig Sometimes reading your posts is like unrolling one of those 'rotes' that Monroe talks of. Very interested in the disassociation from the physical that you speak of because I can identify with that. Funny how we usually relate things to the physical world in order to measure how 'real' they are, when I am sometimes left thinking that this world is the illusion! A very beautiful one with all it's diversity and very convincing because of it's density, but just peripheral to ultimate reality maybe? I believe that interest in OBE will grow quite dramatically. (So brace yourself Craig - another few hundred questions to answer every week!) I think unofficially governments are probably more interested than they let on. But maybe only from a 'remote viewing' military angle. Perhaps they are even reading this Newsgroup . . . oh dear, is my paranoia showing? All the concentration, relaxation, meditation etc involved with OBE has surely got too make the World a more patient, tolerant place - or am I overly optimistic? Accessing higher levels of awareness . . . who knows what problems could be resolved? Love, and thanks for all your helpful posts on this NG. carol > ###### Message-ID: <37E2C129.53040A6F@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:31:05 +1000 From: Craig Shillington Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Pineal doorway References: <7qjmqh$o3v$1@starburst.uk.insnet.net> <7qpini$566$4@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D12AA2.67350DF1@the.end.of.the.message> <7qtore$2pv$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D385BD.B53C3E4F@the.end.of.the.message> <7r1909$l5l$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D81B59.96DFB831@the.end.of.the.message> <7rc7ha$7ik$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <37DB7AFB.7314C1F0@the.end.of.the.message> <7rmmc8$4in$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.59 X-Trace: 18 Sep 1999 10:19:43 +1000, 203.87.38.59 Lines: 115 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.fast.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!lax.uu.net!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.59 Hi Carol, > >Hmmmmm, can't say I know anything about the Native American connection > >Carol. I have a NA friend I write to and haven't written to in so long, > >maybe you are telling me something. :-) I feel a strong connection > >within myself to the Celtic people, or Ireland in particular. I don't > >know why, I've never really investigated why I feel this connection, > >maybe I should start looking at my past lives to figure out what that > >is? > > > Maybe your friend needs you to get in touch? Or perhaps you have a NA guide > you are as yet unaware of, or perhaps I am right off beam with my wires > crossed! :o) LOL Maybe I need to refocus my attention somewhat also. :-) Sometimes I feel I get a little self centred and seem to neglect a fair bit of my 'physical' life and friends. :-( That's not good, but I can't help myself sometimes. I get so drawn up in my own little world that even the slightest physical 'disturbance' can make me unfocused or upset that I need to draw myself away from myself, you know. I hope that's not a sign of going crazy or something, I think I'd be well gone by now. ;-) I guess what I need to do is understand the times I need to focus inward and balance them with the time I need to focus outward. :-) I just get so drawn up in finding out more about what is happening within myself, my spiritual development, who I am in relationship to where I am etc. that I tend to really withdraw at times. I must seem like such a snob to a lot of people I know in my physical life, but that is just the way I am. I have always been like this. You know, I hardly ever get bored because I always have somewhere I can go ..... inside. :-) > > Sometimes reading your posts is like unrolling one of those 'rotes' that > Monroe talks of. Very interested in the disassociation from the physical > that you speak of because I can identify with that. Funny how we usually > relate things to the physical world in order to measure how 'real' they are, > when I am sometimes left thinking that this world is the illusion! A very > beautiful one with all it's diversity and very convincing because of it's > density, but just peripheral to ultimate reality maybe? I follow what you are saying there Carol. :-) Dunno if I believe the same though. I simply believe we exist in different realities, this one just seems more real to us because we are here *now*. As I write this to you, it seems real because it is the state I am in now. If I write in the physical about my experiences in the astral, I cannot put those experiences into 'words' without loosing something from the experience in doing so. While I'm in this reality (physical) I have no words for some of the emotions or things I experience while astral, so I need to make do with the best I can come up with. This takes away from my experience greatly, but it allows others to understand in physical terms what I have experienced. While I am in the astral having the experiences I don't think in physical terms at all, it's only when I come back to this physical reality and think about what happened that I start thinking in terms of the physical, you know. I *saw* this, I *heard* that, etc. etc. None of it, IMO, is physical, that is why so much of what people say, is open to interpretation. What I hear and see may not correspond to what you hear and see from the different ways we translate our experiences back to physical terms; in relation to our personal experience in the physical itself. :-) > I believe that interest in OBE will grow quite dramatically. (So brace > yourself Craig - another few hundred questions to answer every week!) I > think unofficially governments are probably more interested than they let > on. But maybe only from a 'remote viewing' military angle. Perhaps they are > even reading this Newsgroup . . . oh dear, is my paranoia showing? You know what Carol, I have no doubt that governments are interested in what is being discussed and experienced in this newsgroup. Probably only one of many newsgroups they would watch. It would be so easy for someone to pass what we are experiencing over as hallucinations or dreams etc. but to someone who believes this could be used in some way for specific purposes, I feel you have to believe substantially in what people are reporting they are doing. This is why the NSA looked into RV so deeply. When they learned that the Russians where trying to develop the ability, they suddenly felt there may be something in it. ;-) I just don't think as a whole, the human species believes this to be possible. But, the belief is growing stronger and strong each year, and with that belief comes the magic of something seemingly impossible becoming a reality. :-) How come, it seems to me, more and more people are reporting that they have the ability to get OBE now? I'd say it is because more and more people believe it is really possible that we exist on different levels of awareness and that we are able to tap into those different levels. Who cares about proving if it is possible if you know you can do it? I know I don't feel the necessity to prove anything to anyone. :-) > All the concentration, relaxation, meditation etc involved with OBE has > surely got too make the World a more patient, tolerant place - or am I > overly optimistic? Accessing higher levels of awareness . . . who knows what > problems could be resolved? Yes, agreed. (Nod, nod, oh yes, nod. ;}) I feel ultimately there will come a time when there will be no need for governments or controlling bodies of people at all. Maybe we will all be living on a world where we don't work, we just live to experience the physical reality. Popping back to our other forms of reality pretty well at will (telepathy etc.) purely experiencing the physical for knowledge. I think this time is a long long way off though, sadly. Thousands of years off. We need to learn so many more lessons and believe a whole lot more is possible as a *whole* before we will be able to join together as a *whole*, rather than thinking in lines of being separate individuals all the time and only existing as such. All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Pineal doorway Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:14:09 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 139 Message-ID: <7s2u85$i1r$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <7qjmqh$o3v$1@starburst.uk.insnet.net> <7qpini$566$4@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D12AA2.67350DF1@the.end.of.the.message> <7qtore$2pv$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D385BD.B53C3E4F@the.end.of.the.message> <7r1909$l5l$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> <37D81B59.96DFB831@the.end.of.the.message> <7rc7ha$7ik$1@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> <37DB7AFB.7314C1F0@the.end.of.the.message> <7rmmc8$4in$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <37E2C129.53040A6F@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem4294967179.firearms.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 937753669 18491 195.92.2.245 (19 Sep 1999 15:07:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Sep 1999 15:07:49 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Craig Shillington wrote in message <37E2C129.53040A6F@the.end.of.the.message>... > > >Hi Carol, Hi Craig > snip >Maybe I need to refocus my attention somewhat also. :-) Sometimes I feel >I get a little self centred and seem to neglect a fair bit of my >'physical' life and friends. :-( That's not good, but I can't help >myself sometimes. I get so drawn up in my own little world that even the >slightest physical 'disturbance' can make me unfocused or upset that I >need to draw myself away from myself, you know. I hope that's not a sign >of going crazy or something, I think I'd be well gone by now. ;-) I >guess what I need to do is understand the times I need to focus inward >and balance them with the time I need to focus outward. :-) I just get >so drawn up in finding out more about what is happening within myself, >my spiritual development, who I am in relationship to where I am etc. >that I tend to really withdraw at times. I must seem like such a snob to >a lot of people I know in my physical life, but that is just the way I >am. I have always been like this. You know, I hardly ever get bored >because I always have somewhere I can go ..... inside. :-) Makes me think of those 'biblical bits' about 'being in the world but not of it' . . . I am sure there must be corresponding pearls of wisdom in other sacred writings that are IMO referring to this inward focus. I don't get bored either, (unless someone is endlessly going on about real estate etc) any quiet moment is a golden opportunity to contemplate. There are issues where you have to follow your heart, rather than trying to please everybody else. At the end of the day your own realized consciousness is possibly all you can take with you from this world, meaningless and inexplicable as that may seem to people around you at times. >> >> Sometimes reading your posts is like unrolling one of those 'rotes' that >> Monroe talks of. Very interested in the disassociation from the physical >> that you speak of because I can identify with that. Funny how we usually >> relate things to the physical world in order to measure how 'real' they are, >> when I am sometimes left thinking that this world is the illusion! A very >> beautiful one with all it's diversity and very convincing because of it's >> density, but just peripheral to ultimate reality maybe? > >I follow what you are saying there Carol. :-) Dunno if I believe the >same though. I simply believe we exist in different realities, this one >just seems more real to us because we are here *now*. As I write this to >you, it seems real because it is the state I am in now. If I write in >the physical about my experiences in the astral, I cannot put those >experiences into 'words' without loosing something from the experience >in doing so. While I'm in this reality (physical) I have no words for >some of the emotions or things I experience while astral, so I need to >make do with the best I can come up with. This takes away from my >experience greatly, but it allows others to understand in physical terms >what I have experienced. While I am in the astral having the experiences >I don't think in physical terms at all, it's only when I come back to >this physical reality and think about what happened that I start >thinking in terms of the physical, you know. I *saw* this, I *heard* >that, etc. etc. None of it, IMO, is physical, that is why so much of >what people say, is open to interpretation. What I hear and see may not >correspond to what you hear and see from the different ways we translate >our experiences back to physical terms; in relation to our personal >experience in the physical itself. :-) > >> I believe that interest in OBE will grow quite dramatically. (So brace >> yourself Craig - another few hundred questions to answer every week!) I >> think unofficially governments are probably more interested than they let >> on. But maybe only from a 'remote viewing' military angle. Perhaps they are >> even reading this Newsgroup . . . oh dear, is my paranoia showing? > >You know what Carol, I have no doubt that governments are interested in >what is being discussed and experienced in this newsgroup. Probably only >one of many newsgroups they would watch. It would be so easy for someone >to pass what we are experiencing over as hallucinations or dreams etc. >but to someone who believes this could be used in some way for specific >purposes, I feel you have to believe substantially in what people are >reporting they are doing. This is why the NSA looked into RV so deeply. >When they learned that the Russians where trying to develop the ability, >they suddenly felt there may be something in it. ;-) I just don't think >as a whole, the human species believes this to be possible. But, the >belief is growing stronger and strong each year, and with that belief >comes the magic of something seemingly impossible becoming a reality. >:-) How come, it seems to me, more and more people are reporting that >they have the ability to get OBE now? I'd say it is because more and >more people believe it is really possible that we exist on different >levels of awareness and that we are able to tap into those different >levels. Who cares about proving if it is possible if you know you can do >it? I know I don't feel the necessity to prove anything to anyone. :-) Coincidence - the posting about 'Psychic Warrior' and RV and OBE. Reading your response to that I can understand a lot more about RV, I think the only way to really understand these things is to experience them and I can't remember any RVs. but I have no doubts whatever as to the reality. I never feel the need to try and 'prove' or 'convince', but I am always really pleased when other people are searching within open mindedly - surely this must add to world consciousness? > >> All the concentration, relaxation, meditation etc involved with OBE has >> surely got too make the World a more patient, tolerant place - or am I >> overly optimistic? Accessing higher levels of awareness . . . who knows what >> problems could be resolved? > >Yes, agreed. (Nod, nod, oh yes, nod. ;}) I feel ultimately there will >come a time when there will be no need for governments or controlling >bodies of people at all. Maybe we will all be living on a world where we >don't work, we just live to experience the physical reality. Popping >back to our other forms of reality pretty well at will (telepathy etc.) >purely experiencing the physical for knowledge. I think this time is a >long long way off though, sadly. Thousands of years off. We need to >learn so many more lessons and believe a whole lot more is possible as a >*whole* before we will be able to join together as a *whole*, rather >than thinking in lines of being separate individuals all the time and >only existing as such. I'm sure you're right Craig. In fact I think that both Monroe and Buhlman time travelled to somewhen about 3000 AD and it was much like that. They were even producing food by thought. The people of the time were 'naturists' though - (don't think I'm quite ready to turf out my wardrobe yet!) ;o) Love carol >All the best >Craig >-- >The sure way to make a thing impossible- > -is to think it so. --- Franklin > >To respond, delete _nospam_ >scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au >-- > >