From: tmmoody@rocketmail.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:45:03 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Lines: 54 Message-ID: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.108.161.161 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 09 08:45:03 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (Windows 4.10;US) Opera 3.60 [en] X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x38.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 198.108.161.161 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail I'm curious whether OBEs are an isolated "interest" or practice for most members of the list, or whether--like me--they've aggregated them into their worldviews with greater implications. I'm a Taoist who's extremely interested in neuroscience, practical philosophy, quantum physics, qi gong, martial arts, increasing awareness, altered states of consciousness, and all that good stuff. It's rare that I have the opportunity to speak with others who are knowledgeable firsthand about such subjects, but today I had that opportunity. Some of the things I've discovered have forced me time and again to reevaluate the reality I inhabit, but I'm also finding (as in today's case) that people inherently appropriate this knowledge into their own belief systems. My housemate's sister came to visit, and brought with her a man of about 19. I'd never met either of them before, but after having been there about 30 minutes, he began asking me pointed questions about auras, qi/chakra, and projection. We discussed our respective experiences for quite some time, and answered each others' questions. He had much to say about astral entities, and claimed to be able to see auras (he told me my aura was rather broad, and deep red in color). He is a Christian, and referred to astral presences as "spirits," whereas I see them (us!) as energies. Someone in this group has alluded before to etheric/astral/etc. realities corresponding to higher (vibrational) frequencies. How has your knowledge of such things changed your paradigm? I'm very interested in hearing people's interpretations of this reality we're forced to accept (either that, or accept that we are mad). I found it difficult to accept all that he said that day, and took it with a grain of salt, but it was clear that he had experience projecting but didn't understand all that was happening. I also do believe he can see auras, as apparently it's something he's been trying to convince his father--another staunch Christian--of for two years. However, he also commented on such things as "astral wars," "clipped wings," and people who's astral selves are bound with chains and shackles (and a reiki master who could remove them). I have my doubts about such things, but I know what I have experienced. Lately, it seems almost every day I'm discovering new, invaluable things about myself, my existence, and that my direction will resoolve itself. Tao has been absolutely essential in this. There is so very much to life! I turned off my TV a long time ago, and never looked back; it's senseless to squander existence, and sad that most people's view of life is so localized. Sorry if this has been at all rambling... I'm just excited because answers and paths fall have been falling into my lap because I LET them. =] highest love, Todd Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ###### From: "Andreas Seebeck" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 16:09:04 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 17 Message-ID: <7m4vkf$io0$1@news07.btx.dtag.de> References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news07.btx.dtag.de 931529167 19200 04442921153-0001 990709 14:06:07 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.de X-Sender: 04442921153-0001@t-online.de X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed01.btx.dtag.de!newsmm00.btx.dtag.de!news.btx.dtag.de!not-for-mail aggregated them into their > worldviews with greater implications. I'm a Taoist who's extremely > interested in neuroscience, practical philosophy, quantum physics, qi gong, > martial arts, increasing awareness, altered states of consciousness, and all > that good stuff. Hm. Looks very similar to my way, except Tao. I read a book last month were all things you described were explained with ease(The question of life and everything). That was Ramtha (The white book). Wonder what you would say about it. Would you give me a hint were to begin with tao? Andreas Seebeck ###### From: tmmoody@rocketmail.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 21:22:43 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <7m5p6n$lf2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7m4vkf$io0$1@news07.btx.dtag.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.108.161.84 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 09 21:22:43 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (Windows 4.10;US) Opera 3.60 [en] X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x41.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 198.108.161.84 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail >> aggregated them into their worldviews with greater implications. I'm a >> Taoist who's extremely interested in neuroscience, practical >> philosophy, quantum physics, qi gong, martial arts, increasing >> awareness, altered states of consciousness, and all that good stuff. > > Hm. Looks very similar to my way, except Tao. I read a book last month > were all things you described were explained with ease(The question of > life and everything). That was Ramtha (The white book). Wonder what > you would say about it. Would you give me a hint were to begin with > tao? The definitive Taoist writings come from Lao Tse ("Tao Te Ching," transcribed shortly before his death) and Chuang Tzu (writings comprising the 33 Chapters: "Inner Chapters," "Outer Chapters," etc.). These are works central to the Taoist school. There are myriad other works too, of course, attempting to explain Tao and Taoist precepts in modern western terms. Some of the most popular of these in the west are "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values" (Robert Pirsig), "The Tao of Pooh" and "The Te of Piglet" (Benjamin Hoff), "The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism" (Fritjof Capra). Note that, naturally, these types of works are only interpretations, or extreme distillations for easy consumption. The most extreme example of this are Benjamin Hoff's "Pooh" books; the works are entertaining, but perhaps tries too hard to make Taoist concepts fit the Pooh model. Hoff also exploits the medium to get on his high horse about social issues. I've never actually read "The Tao of Physics," but I'm sure others in this group have. Another work for those interested in practical philosophy is Joe Hyams' "Zen in the Martial Arts": a small book of great value. Tao is implicit, which is one of the things that gives it credence, IMHO. To paraphrase Lao Tse, "Tao that can be told is not eternal Tao." strength through peace, Todd Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ###### From: "Andreas Seebeck" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:05:32 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 7 Message-ID: <7m9fi7$2rm$1@news06.btx.dtag.de> References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7m4vkf$io0$1@news07.btx.dtag.de> <7m5p6n$lf2$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news06.btx.dtag.de 931676551 2934 04442921153-0001 990711 07:02:31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.de X-Sender: 04442921153-0001@t-online.de X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed01.btx.dtag.de!newsmm00.btx.dtag.de!news.btx.dtag.de!not-for-mail Hm... I'm practicing Sa-Zen for almost 2 years now, but nobody told me that Zen has something to do with Tao. Thanks for your letter, I think I have a glance no what Tao is. Andreas ###### From: dodop@aol.com (Dodop) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 12 Jul 1999 02:05:46 GMT References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990711220546.08258.00010859@ng-fe1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >I'm curious whether OBEs are an isolated "interest" or practice for most >members of the list, or whether--like me--they've aggregated them into their >worldviews with greater implications. I'm a Taoist who's extremely >interested in neuroscience, practical philosophy, quantum physics, qi gong, >martial arts, increasing awareness, altered states of consciousness, and all >that good stuff. >> Every book that I have read by meditators like Zen Buddhists say not to be distracted by phenomena. So, if you see auras or angels, you shouldn't be too distracted by this--ignore it. However, I would have to say that my experiences with chi and OBE have changed my spiritual views and my behavior. Where previously I took religious ideas like the existence of a deity or the existence of a soul on faith, now I feel that I have direct empirical evidence to back up my beliefs. I make more of an effort to behave in a kind and ethical manner, because I am convinced, based on my metaphysical experiences, that I am accountable to God for my thoughts, words and deeds. I also am convinced that there is a soul that survives death and that there is no evading personal responsibility. So, metaphysical experiences have definitely changed my outlook and actions for the better. ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 12:30:40 +1000 Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bilby23.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.519 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Fri, 09 Jul 1999 08:45:03 GMT, tmmoody@rocketmail.com wrote: < snip > >However, he also commented on such things as "astral wars," There are physical wars. Why would you consider it unusual to discover that there is also astral warfare ? Physical enemies don't instantly become friends when they meet OOB. > "clipped wings," >and people who's astral selves are bound with chains and shackles (and a Chains bind people in the physical world. Why consider that unlikely in the non physical ? >reiki master who could remove them). < snip > One doesn't need to be a "master" of any sort to clear astral bonds. Prayer, light etc. will do it. :-) Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: "Alex" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 00:46:12 +0100 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.60.5.161 Message-ID: <378a80ab@news.power.net.uk> X-Trace: 13 Jul 1999 00:56:27 +0100, 195.60.5.161 Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!bignews.mediaways.net!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!easynet-tele!easynet.net!btnet-feed2!btnet!news.power.net.uk!195.60.5.161 My OBEs have made me think more about the world, and who we are etc.. But I have realised that thinking is of less value than experience. With thinking, you immediatly burden yourself with endless questions, like science does. I have many theories to explain everything - half being scientific/consciousness crossovers [hint: quantum physics, electron wave equations - maybe if abstracted enough these could apply to all dimensions], half being based on more vague spiritualist things - but of course they're completely unprovable! So I only know seek experience. -- regards, alex [email: rollthedice at iname dot com] ###### Message-ID: <378AAE81.A6882D29@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:12:01 +1000 From: Craig Shillington Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality References: <7m4cqe$599$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <378a80ab@news.power.net.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.87.38.26 X-Trace: 13 Jul 1999 14:01:58 +1000, 203.87.38.26 Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!uunet!pao.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.87.38.26 Alex wrote: > > My OBEs have made me think more about the world, and who we are etc.. But I > have realised that thinking is of less value than experience. With thinking, > you immediatly burden yourself with endless questions, like science does. I > have many theories to explain everything - half being > scientific/consciousness crossovers [hint: quantum physics, electron wave > equations - maybe if abstracted enough these could apply to all dimensions], > half being based on more vague spiritualist things - but of course they're > completely unprovable! So I only know seek experience. It is my honest opinion, that experience and thinking (contemplation) go hand in hand. They both complement and enhance the other. I really believe they are both important, and that we couldn't move on with one, without the use of the other. All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: xaith@aol.com (XAITH) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and new perceptions of reality Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 14 Jul 1999 04:24:20 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990714002420.25734.00000382@ng-cj1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!news-hh.maz.net!news-muc.maz.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >>However, he also commented on such things as "astral wars," > >There are physical wars. Why would you consider it unusual to discover >that there is also astral warfare ? Physical enemies don't instantly >become friends when they meet OOB. Could you elaborate on this? Do you mean the kinds wars we have here? Such as sub astral plane b fighting against sub astral plane a for control of c? ************************************************************************** ************************** Formerly known as TheXternal