From: "Gerrit Towief" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:44:07 +0100 Organization: XS4all - not a bad Dutch ISP Lines: 49 Message-ID: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: dc2-modem40.dial.xs4all.nl X-Trace: news1.xs4all.nl 926966577 7316 194.109.128.40 (17 May 1999 18:42:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 May 1999 18:42:57 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!xs4all!not-for-mail I think I have had a few OBE experiences in my lifetime but here are some interesting and at times consistent occurences which have puzzled me for a long time. I am ready to accept that this could all have been lucid dreaming!! 1) I have on certain occasions loooked back to see if my body is lying in the bed as I am about to leave my room (normally floating through a window). I have never been able to see it. 2) I am unable to control my destination. I feel caught in a current and I tend to let it take me wherever it wills. In other words, I find myself drifting slowly and then rapidly through a location. I have often had to hang on to a lampost or whatever to stop myself so that I could have a walk amongst the populace. I normally assume that I am totally invisible when I am earthbound and walking amongst peopple at these locations. However I do get very piercing stairs from a few people (especially kids) who apparently can see me without difficulty. 3) Normally the destinations look like normal earth bound locations - with people milling around in bustling cities etc. The problem is that for some reason all text on sign boards and posters and in books seems to become unreadable - much like the sort of text a malfunctioning printer spews out when it is not happy. So I am unable to ascertain my location. In addition, I am unable to hear what people are saying. On one occasion when I could read street names, the surroundings suggested that I was somewhere in Paris. However when I woke up and tried to locate the particular name in a Paris street map, I could not find it. Could OBE project you into a parallel Earth where Paris has different streets to our Terran reality? 4) One of my strangest experiences +++ Early morning one day, I found myself in the ockpit of plane flying overhead - where I don't know. I was watching the pilot and co-pilot flying the plane. Next moment, I was suspended in mid air with clouds all around me watching the plane flying on without me into the distance. The shock of it all woke me up instantly. Weird. 5) I knew a guy at a boys school who could do astral travelling - taught to him by the Rosicrucians - are the Rosicrucians still in business?? We were both boarders (students living in school dormitories during term time). He would ask you to pick a location e.g. your own home address - next morning he would describe in succinct and accurate detail what he saw at that place!!. Comments welcome. G. ###### From: Lan Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom, k-c References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0b7 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 23:01:09 +0100 Message-ID: X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.63.240 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 926978472 5200 194.112.32.19 Lines: 32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!news.globix.net!news.idt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!isdnet!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail "Gerrit Towief" wrote: >3) Normally the destinations look like normal earth bound locations - with >people milling around in bustling cities etc. The problem is that for some >reason all text on sign boards and posters and in books seems to become >unreadable - much like the sort of text a malfunctioning printer spews out >when it is not happy. So I am unable to ascertain my location. In addition, >I am unable to hear what people are saying. On one occasion when I could >read street names, the surroundings suggested that I was somewhere in Paris. >However when I woke up and tried to locate the particular name in a Paris >street map, I could not find it. Could OBE project you into a parallel Earth >where Paris has different streets to our Terran reality? I have the same. It happens in dreams also. I have absolutely no idea why. It could be a psychic ailment that all people are being subjected to. or perhaps something to do with the basis of reality, or perhaps something to do with the mindset in which things are written. I remember alot of music too in my dreams doesnt sound the same as when I listen to it in real life. Perhaps the text acts as a gateway to something rather than being a fixed record. Annoying, completely. -- If you get criticised for doing something you didnt do, then whats the reason to not do it anyway? Your guilty of that crime no matter what you do. http://falcon.nji.com/~vera interesting site by someone else. Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 ###### Message-ID: <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 73 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:17:40 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.188 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 927037187 208.203.136.188 (Tue, 18 May 1999 08:19:47 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 08:19:47 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Hi Gerrit, Gerrit Towief wrote: > I think I have had a few OBE experiences in my lifetime but here are some > interesting and at times consistent occurences which have puzzled me for a > long time. I am ready to accept that this could all have been lucid > dreaming!! > > 1) I have on certain occasions loooked back to see if my body is lying in > the bed as I am about to leave my room (normally floating through a window). > I have never been able to see it. When you go OBE, your environment is a close approximation of the so called real thing and may or may not be exactly the same. When you project into your bedroom environment for example, during those projections where you are close to the real world, you may see your bedroom but one of the windows might be on the wrong side of the room, or you will see the door open when in real life it is shut and so on. So if you look to see your body and all you see is your bed, don't be surprised. > 2) I am unable to control my destination. I feel caught in a current and I > tend to let it take me wherever it wills. In other words, I find myself > drifting slowly and then rapidly through a location. I have often had to > hang on to a lampost or whatever to stop myself so that I could have a walk > amongst the populace. I normally assume that I am totally invisible when I > am earthbound and walking amongst peopple at these locations. However I do > get very piercing stairs from a few people (especially kids) who apparently > can see me without difficulty. The current you feel is what I call the Magnetic Wind and is something I experience quite often. I really enjoy it because if you learn not to fight it (not that you really can), it can take you to some very interesting destinations. The different speeds are part of it as well, sometimes you cruise casually, sometimes you go like you've just hit warp speed. I've never tried to grab something like a lamppost to hold myself from the pull of the Wind. I should try it sometime, sounds interesting. As far as the people are concerned, in populated areas, most people you meet aren't really interested in you, not so much because they can't see you (although that may be the case), but because they simply aren't interested. The sidewalks of NYC syndrome. The kids of course are more curious. You will find if you strike up a conversation with someone, they may put you off at first, but if you are persistent, you can usually get some interesting information out of them. > 3) Normally the destinations look like normal earth bound locations - with > people milling around in bustling cities etc. The problem is that for some > reason all text on sign boards and posters and in books seems to become > unreadable - much like the sort of text a malfunctioning printer spews out > when it is not happy. So I am unable to ascertain my location. In addition, > I am unable to hear what people are saying. On one occasion when I could > read street names, the surroundings suggested that I was somewhere in Paris. > However when I woke up and tried to locate the particular name in a Paris > street map, I could not find it. Could OBE project you into a parallel Earth > where Paris has different streets to our Terran reality? IMHO, when you are in-body, your mind is closely linked with your brain. It is your brain that processes words and makes sense of them. This is what brains do. When OBE, the mind brain link is less strong (although apparently still there) and your mind is more free to think and perceive as real minds do. This offers you the ability to understand concepts that you normally can't when in-body, but it also makes reading more difficult since reading is a brain related process. I also don't rule out the simpler explanation that the words you are looking at really *are* gobbledigook. :) As far as your inability to hear, sometimes when one projects, there is a complete loss of sight, everything just looks like fog. I would suspect that if you sometimes can't hear anything that you are probably experiencing the same thing but related to sound rather than sight. Ken ###### From: Lan Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom, k-c References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0b7 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 18:34:00 +0100 Message-ID: X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.62.203 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 927048842 5200 194.112.32.19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!remarQ-uK!remarQ.com!supernews.com!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!colt.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail sculpt@privatei.com wrote: >IMHO, when you are in-body, your mind is closely linked with your brain. It is >your brain that processes words and makes sense of them. This is what brains >do. When OBE, the mind brain link is less strong (although apparently still >there) and your mind is more free to think and perceive as real minds do. This >offers you the ability to understand concepts that you normally can't when >in-body, but it also makes reading more difficult since reading is a brain >related process. I also don't rule out the simpler explanation that the words >you are looking at really *are* gobbledigook. :) I'd very much doubt that. -- If you get criticised for doing something you didnt do, then whats the reason to not do it anyway? Your guilty of that crime no matter what you do. http://falcon.nji.com/~vera interesting site by someone else. Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 ###### Message-ID: <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 61 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:41:08 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.195 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 927085408 208.203.136.195 (Tue, 18 May 1999 21:43:28 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:43:28 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!coop.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Hi Bart, I actually haven't done much reading while out so I don't remember anything about seeing Sanskrit symbols replacing letters but I do remember reading numbers once that were scratched onto a wooden fence. I was there with a friend and I pointed at one number then another so we could pick one out to memorize. I tried to pick one out that was easy to remember because of the familiar problem of bringing such types of memories back. When we both returned we would use the number to verify that we had seen each other on the Astral. This would have been all just dandy since when I returned I did remember the number. The problem however was that the friend I was with on the astral plane was someone I knew from long ago in real life and unreachable and most certainly not in tune with OBE's. While I was with this person on the Astral however, we were close friends and were both familiar with OBE's and I knew that person to only be a phone call away. Why the discrepancy still boggles my mind. Ken Bart wrote: > Lan wrote in message ... > >sculpt@privatei.com wrote: > > > >>IMHO, when you are in-body, your mind is closely linked with your brain. > It is > >>your brain that processes words and makes sense of them. This is what > brains > >>do. When OBE, the mind brain link is less strong (although apparently > still > >>there) and your mind is more free to think and perceive as real minds do. > This > >>offers you the ability to understand concepts that you normally can't when > >>in-body, but it also makes reading more difficult since reading is a brain > >>related process. I also don't rule out the simpler explanation that the > words > >>you are looking at really *are* gobbledigook. :) > > >I'd very much doubt that. > > Ken gave two reasons... which one do you doubt? > > The interesting thing I've found about "text" while in an altered state is > that it is a confusion of symbols. Take a look at Sanskrit text - it is > almost identical to what I see in the altered state. I could be wrong, but > what I've heard is that the oldest known writings of spiritual experiences > (the Vedas) were written in Sanskrit and were said to be directly recorded > from the other levels of consciousness. Perhaps, if we take the time to > learn to read Sanskrit text, we might understand the text within an inner > experience with greater ease. > > Let's also keep in mind that the music that is occasionally heard in deeper > experiences is quite similar to Indian music - sitars, flutes, bells, and > drums. There is nothing new here in this newsgroup - it has all been taught > before. It is only the physical culture that interferes with our > understanding to the point that we must relearn and relearn and relearn... > with every generation. > > Bart ###### Message-ID: <3742336A.BA25085D@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:43:38 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.195 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 927085556 208.203.136.195 (Tue, 18 May 1999 21:45:56 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 21:45:56 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.netcrusader.net!209.98.98.32!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail If you were refering to my last sentance, then yea, I doubt it too. Ken Lan wrote: > sculpt@privatei.com wrote: > > >IMHO, when you are in-body, your mind is closely linked with your brain. It is > >your brain that processes words and makes sense of them. This is what brains > >do. When OBE, the mind brain link is less strong (although apparently still > >there) and your mind is more free to think and perceive as real minds do. This > >offers you the ability to understand concepts that you normally can't when > >in-body, but it also makes reading more difficult since reading is a brain > >related process. I also don't rule out the simpler explanation that the words > >you are looking at really *are* gobbledigook. :) > > I'd very much doubt that. > ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 22:32:04 -0400 Organization: Netcom Lines: 43 Message-ID: <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-49.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue May 18 9:32:07 PM CDT 1999 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Lan wrote in message ... >sculpt@privatei.com wrote: > >>IMHO, when you are in-body, your mind is closely linked with your brain. It is >>your brain that processes words and makes sense of them. This is what brains >>do. When OBE, the mind brain link is less strong (although apparently still >>there) and your mind is more free to think and perceive as real minds do. This >>offers you the ability to understand concepts that you normally can't when >>in-body, but it also makes reading more difficult since reading is a brain >>related process. I also don't rule out the simpler explanation that the words >>you are looking at really *are* gobbledigook. :) >I'd very much doubt that. Ken gave two reasons... which one do you doubt? The interesting thing I've found about "text" while in an altered state is that it is a confusion of symbols. Take a look at Sanskrit text - it is almost identical to what I see in the altered state. I could be wrong, but what I've heard is that the oldest known writings of spiritual experiences (the Vedas) were written in Sanskrit and were said to be directly recorded from the other levels of consciousness. Perhaps, if we take the time to learn to read Sanskrit text, we might understand the text within an inner experience with greater ease. Let's also keep in mind that the music that is occasionally heard in deeper experiences is quite similar to Indian music - sitars, flutes, bells, and drums. There is nothing new here in this newsgroup - it has all been taught before. It is only the physical culture that interferes with our understanding to the point that we must relearn and relearn and relearn... with every generation. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 00:38:48 -0400 Organization: Netcom Lines: 45 Message-ID: <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-49.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue May 18 11:38:49 PM CDT 1999 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news The Original Ken wrote in message <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com>... >Hi Bart, > >I actually haven't done much reading while out so I don't remember anything >about seeing Sanskrit symbols replacing letters but I do remember reading >numbers once that were scratched onto a wooden fence. I was there with a friend >and I pointed at one number then another so we could pick one out to memorize. >I tried to pick one out that was easy to remember because of the familiar >problem of bringing such types of memories back. When we both returned we >would use the number to verify that we had seen each other on the Astral. This >would have been all just dandy since when I returned I did remember the number. >The problem however was that the friend I was with on the astral plane was >someone I knew from long ago in real life and unreachable and most certainly not >in tune with OBE's. While I was with this person on the Astral however, we were >close friends and were both familiar with OBE's and I knew that person to only >be a phone call away. Why the discrepancy still boggles my mind. > >Ken Interesting... perhaps if you went back into that situation you might get the full telephone number? :-) Not so easy, I understand. But the more I get into this stuff, the more I understand that it is a spiritual situation. I think we catch little glimses when we are looking. I think we catch even more when there is a deeper reason. I'm convinced that when we latch on to a Spiritual connection, the results are even more positive. Experiments produce some minor results. I'm beginning to find that there really needs to be a Spiritual understanding of OBE to get anything beyond lucid dreaming. Bart ###### Message-ID: <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:16:53 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.195 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 927123551 208.203.136.195 (Wed, 19 May 1999 08:19:11 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 08:19:11 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!coop.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Hi Bart, Bart wrote: > Interesting... perhaps if you went back into that situation you might get > the full telephone number? :-) With 10 digit numbers being the norm these days it would have been nearly impossible. :) > Not so easy, I understand. But the more I get into this stuff, the more I > understand that it is a spiritual situation. I think we catch little > glimses when we are looking. I think we catch even more when there is a > deeper reason. I'm convinced that when we latch on to a Spiritual > connection, the results are even more positive. > Experiments produce some minor results. I'm beginning to find that there > really needs to be a Spiritual understanding of OBE to get anything beyond > lucid dreaming. There is certainly more than meets the eye. One of the things I enjoy most about OBE's is when I do get to pick up on little clues. Oddities that by themselves don't make much sense but when tied in with other oddities begin to form a pattern of understanding. When this happens, it can be very satisfying. One of the things that I am trying to understand more right now is this sense of disinterest that I get from people I meet on the Astral Plane. Not unfriendliness mind you, more like the kind of thing when you go to a repressed country and you try and talk about the government to someone and they give you a wierd look and look away at their comrades and then they try and change the subject and so on. Almost like asking questions on the Astral Plane is a taboo subject. People are friendly enough, but they just don't want to volunteer anything. It's a consistant phenomenon, and I would really like to get to the bottom of it. Is it because I have not yet "paid my dues" and so I'm not entitled to certain knowledge? Is this the spirituality aspect that you are refering to? Do I need to become a better person than I am now or do I need a deeper understanding of things than I already have before I am entitled to the knowledge that seems to constantly be hidden from me? Ken ###### From: "Gerrit Towief" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Wed, 19 May 1999 19:31:45 +0100 Organization: XS4all - not a bad Dutch ISP Lines: 52 Message-ID: <7hv007$r46$1@news1.xs4all.nl> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dc2-modem2574.dial.xs4all.nl X-Trace: news1.xs4all.nl 927138631 27782 194.109.138.14 (19 May 1999 18:30:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 May 1999 18:30:31 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!xs4all!not-for-mail Bart wrote in message news:7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com... > > Lan wrote in message ... > >sculpt@privatei.com wrote: > > > >>IMHO, when you are in-body, your mind is closely linked with your brain. > It is > >>your brain that processes words and makes sense of them. This is what > brains > >>do. When OBE, the mind brain link is less strong (although apparently > still > >>there) and your mind is more free to think and perceive as real minds do. > This > >>offers you the ability to understand concepts that you normally can't when > >>in-body, but it also makes reading more difficult since reading is a brain > >>related process. I also don't rule out the simpler explanation that the > words > >>you are looking at really *are* gobbledigook. :) > > >I'd very much doubt that. > > > Ken gave two reasons... which one do you doubt? > > The interesting thing I've found about "text" while in an altered state is > that it is a confusion of symbols. Take a look at Sanskrit text - it is > almost identical to what I see in the altered state. I could be wrong, but > what I've heard is that the oldest known writings of spiritual experiences > (the Vedas) were written in Sanskrit and were said to be directly recorded > from the other levels of consciousness. Perhaps, if we take the time to > learn to read Sanskrit text, we might understand the text within an inner > experience with greater ease. > Bart > > In my experience, the gobbledigook looks very much like the title of the postings of Hades and The Original Ken concerning the person having problems displaying Cyrillic text. I remember see lots of weird characters with accents, umlauts etc as if it were encrypted ins ome way. Just as you are trying to read something, the text seems to invert before your very eyes into this unreadable format. Gerrit ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 02:06:52 -0400 Organization: Netcom Lines: 49 Message-ID: <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-60.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Wed May 19 11:06:53 PM PDT 1999 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news The Original Ken wrote in message <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com>... >One of the things that I am trying to understand more right now is >this sense of disinterest that I get from people I meet on the Astral Plane. >Not unfriendliness mind you, more like the kind of thing when you go to a >repressed country and you try and talk about the government to someone and they >give you a wierd look and look away at their comrades and then they try and >change the subject and so on. Almost like asking questions on the Astral Plane >is a taboo subject. People are friendly enough, but they just don't want to >volunteer anything. It's a consistant phenomenon, and I would really like to >get to the bottom of it. Is it because I have not yet "paid my dues" and so I'm >not entitled to certain knowledge? Is this the spirituality aspect that you are >refering to? Do I need to become a better person than I am now or do I need a >deeper understanding of things than I already have before I am entitled to the >knowledge that seems to constantly be hidden from me? > >Ken You ain't the only one to have experienced this. They act like snobs - don't they? :-) Try to remember that probably most of them don't have a physical body (they are physically dead). They tend to treat me like I'm a waste of their time because I DO have a physical body. They aren't the least bit interested in your concerns because they are stuck in their own. It is very frustrating. When you run across these types of personalities, you will find that they won't give you much help. Move on. Make yourself greater by flowing with "the wind" that you have described before. I think it will lead you to personalities that have more interest in you. I still think it is best to seek out sources of light. These things/beings tend to be more helpful - else they wouldn't shine :-) Bart ###### From: Damon Amaeous Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 05:16:44 GMT Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 20 May 1999 05:24:57 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Wed May 19 22:25:11 1999 Organization: Firedraake - ICQ# 18405845 - ICQ Pager 18405845@pager.mirabilis.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Lines: 19 Mime-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: firedraake@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust76.tnt2.dfw2.da.uu.net Message-ID: <37459a52.20788638@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!netnews.com!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Lan posted on Mon, 17 May = 1999 23:01:09 +0100 in news:alt.out-of-body concerning "Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state!," which said: > Perhaps the text acts as a gateway to something rather than being a = fixed > record. Annoying, completely. The way I see it, how important is it to read, anyway, apart from existing now? Will we be reading for eternity? Can you teach your mind = to remember the assemblage of letters and spaces to form words? Or can it = all be forgotten in favor of simple awareness of life without the need for academics? =46iredraake ###### From: "Gerrit Towief" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 08:24:09 +0100 Organization: XS4all - not a bad Dutch ISP Lines: 37 Message-ID: <7i0d8f$jc1$1@news1.xs4all.nl> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37459a52.20788638@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dc2-modem2627.dial.xs4all.nl X-Trace: news1.xs4all.nl 927184975 19841 194.109.138.67 (20 May 1999 07:22:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 May 1999 07:22:55 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!xs4all!not-for-mail Damon Amaeous wrote in message news:37459a52.20788638@news.earthlink.net... Lan posted on Mon, 17 May 1999 23:01:09 +0100 in news:alt.out-of-body concerning "Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state!," which said: >> Perhaps the text acts as a gateway to something rather than being a fixed >> record. Annoying, completely. >The way I see it, how important is it to read, anyway, apart from >existing now? Will we be reading for eternity? You never know! Obviously if you are presented with books or signs to read, there is no harm in trying to read them. Quite a good way of finding out where you are. Especially when you suspect you are still in a Terran dimension. > Can you teach your mind to remember the assemblage of letters and spaces to form words? That is a very good idea. A bit difficult but worth trying. >Or can it all be forgotten in favor of simple awareness of life without the need for >academics? I think this proposition is too profound. >Firedraake Gerrit ###### From: "Mark Cayton" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:45:30 -0700 Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C Lines: 34 Message-ID: <7i6u0a$ak2$1@sparky.wolfe.net> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sea-ts5-p04.wolfenet.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!nntp.abs.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.wolfe.net!news.wolfe.net!not-for-mail I have been experiencing the same things lately ... This thread has been very re-assuring. The symbols I have been seeing may turn out to look like sanskrit. The symbology I have been seeing looked greek - like, but wasn't greek either, I know that set pretty well. I have an inkling that the strange text is also a trigger to focus attention, and to wake up. Like a key. Another impression I have whilst reading this text is that I DO understand it on some level, but on a level beyond the state of consciousness I am in at the 'time' I am percieving it. Good thoughts Bart. Mark Bart wrote in message <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>... > >Ken gave two reasons... which one do you doubt? > >The interesting thing I've found about "text" while in an altered state is >that it is a confusion of symbols. Take a look at Sanskrit text - it is >almost identical to what I see in the altered state. I could be wrong, but >what I've heard is that the oldest known writings of spiritual experiences >(the Vedas) were written in Sanskrit and were said to be directly recorded >from the other levels of consciousness. Perhaps, if we take the time to >learn to read Sanskrit text, we might understand the text within an inner >experience with greater ease. > >Bart > > > ###### From: "Mark Cayton" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 11:55:54 -0700 Organization: Wolfe Internet Access, L.L.C Lines: 50 Message-ID: <7i6uje$b0f$1@sparky.wolfe.net> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sea-ts5-p04.wolfenet.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!nntp.abs.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-west1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!nntp1.wolfe.net!news.wolfe.net!not-for-mail This too is also what I have been finding quite a lot. I have just been feeling that these beings are real but they are not as aware. They may just be others in dreaming who are non-lucid, or dead souls, I can't really say. I have often wondered how I appear to others in the astral before I 'go lucid'. I have been very insistent on getting throught to them on some occasions. Once I was in this chess tournament room, and most of them were all in this semi-conscious state. I would begin a game and they would play a move or two and wander off at random. I was really interested in being able to play a game of chess in the Astral with someone, so I would persist in trying to make these people finish off at least one game!! I really had to get 'in their faces' with full intent to get the slightest comprehension. Needless to say I would have won the chess game :) Some situations where I really do wake up and get intense vivid awareness in the astral, I have the feeling that other entities have had to work pretty hard to get my attention!! Ever had the same thought? I think this stuff is going on on many levels... all the way up to the top. In a similar sense, almost everyone around us in the physical is not really awake. We are awakening to the truth of what is, but advanced spiritual beings would probably percieve us in a similar manner to the way we are percieving these non-responsive beings. Then we slowly come around and wake-up. This must be neat to observe. Mark Bart wrote in message <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>... > >The Original Ken wrote in message <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com>... > >>One of the things that I am trying to understand more right now is >>this sense of disinterest that I get from people I meet on the Astral >Plane. >>Ken > > >You ain't the only one to have experienced this. They act like snobs - >don't they? :-) > >Try to remember that probably most of them don't have a physical body (they >are physically dead). They tend to treat me like I'm a waste of their time >because I DO have a physical body. They aren't the least bit interested in >your concerns because they are stuck in their own. It is very frustrating. >Bart ###### From: Lan Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom, k-c References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <7i6uje$b0f$1@sparky.wolfe.net> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0b7 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:41:32 +0100 Message-ID: X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.60.106 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Lines: 56 NNTP-Posting-Host: newsread3.dircon.co.uk X-Trace: reader.news.dircon.net 927409314 5200 194.112.32.19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!reader.news.dircon.net!not-for-mail In article <7i6uje$b0f$1@sparky.wolfe.net>, "Mark Cayton" wrote: >Some situations where I really do wake up and get intense vivid awareness in >the astral, I have the feeling that other entities have had to work pretty >hard to get my attention!! Ever had the same thought? I think this stuff is >going on on many levels... all the way up to the top. In a similar sense, >almost everyone around us in the physical is not really awake. We are >awakening to the truth of what is, but advanced spiritual beings would >probably percieve us in a similar manner to the way we are percieving these >non-responsive beings. Then we slowly come around and wake-up. This must be >neat to observe. I HATE it when other life forces try to involve me and get my attention. I am there to explore magic and the universe and hate getting dragged around by mundane moronic bastards. Especially when they start trying to fill me with emotions that arent my own. That really sucks. The best experinces I have had were alone, or with people around that I wasnt very much involved with. The only good experience when involved with another person was fighting some monsters. Its a bit classical, but I was rescuing some female in one OOBE. She had also female oppressors who wanted to turn her into something she didnt want to be. Luckily this one I saved (And she did want to be saved) didnt play the wimp all the way and helped me too. It was in a castle with a mix of pure magic and high tech around. It was the OOBE realm and not a dream, I can tell the difference, its just a feel. I had to fight some cement monsters (it was a bit green with age) and a plastic tubing monster, but the plastic tubing monster was too hard for me because my hammer was rebounding off it. So I just had to run away from that one. Those are the kind of experiences I enjoy. Or sometimes touring old stone cities full of magic. Or strange constructions, underground in big man made constructions. I was in my allotments recently, I appeared there after falling off a waterfall. Odd, i fell off a waterfall and teleported to lying down in my allotments. I was in a place. I just recognised it. I KNEW this was somewhere familiar but i couldnt quite place it. I guessed that it was my allotments but it didnt look the same at first. (plus my vision isnt as good as it is in the physical world) then I started looking around and it was my allotments. I dont know if it was true, but that when that female dissapeared of my look around the astral plane, most of those monsters and other stuff disapeared. Perhaps she was carrying them around with her. In a way. I remember her sort of saying good bye. Dont ask me why I was rescuing her, I guess i'd do it for anyone really, i'm a helpful kind of person, i'm not the rescue the girl kind of person at all. -- If you get criticised for doing something you didnt do, then whats the reason to not do it anyway? Your guilty of that crime no matter what you do. http://falcon.nji.com/~vera interesting site by someone else. Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:18:18 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bilby4.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.507 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Wed, 19 May 1999 08:16:53 -0600, The Original Ken wrote: < snip > >One of the things that I am trying to understand more right now is >this sense of disinterest that I get from people I meet on the Astral Plane. There are a number of reasons for this. One of them is that some of these people are earthbound. If they know that they died, and they don't believe in life after death, then their current situation can pose a problem for them. Others don't know that they have died and are wondering why they aren't "waking up" (in their physical body). Both situations can lead to the disinterest you mention. >Not unfriendliness mind you, more like the kind of thing when you go to a >repressed country and you try and talk about the government to someone and they >give you a wierd look and look away at their comrades and then they try and >change the subject and so on. Almost like asking questions on the Astral Plane >is a taboo subject. The "repressed country" comment is very apt. For many people who are non-physical, or OOB, the astral IS a "repressed country". Many people are controlled while astral. Just as physical people can be concerned about "repercussions" of talking openly to strangers the same can occur non-physically. > People are friendly enough, but they just don't want to >volunteer anything. It's a consistant phenomenon, and I would really like to >get to the bottom of it. Is it because I have not yet "paid my dues" and so I'm >not entitled to certain knowledge? That sort of situation can apply in the physical as well as the non-physical. Asking the right people in the right way helps though. > Is this the spirituality aspect that you are >refering to? Do I need to become a better person than I am now or do I need a >deeper understanding of things than I already have before I am entitled to the >knowledge that seems to constantly be hidden from me? You may find that both situations apply to some degree. Your perceptive observations, and suggestions, suggest that you are well on your way to getting your answers however. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Message-ID: <3747952E.939623F6@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:42:06 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.197 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 927438262 208.203.136.197 (Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:22 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:22 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Bart wrote: > When you run across these types of personalities, you will find that they > won't give you much help. Move on. Make yourself greater by flowing with > "the wind" that you have described before. I think it will lead you to > personalities that have more interest in you. Actually, quite often, coming to these people is the result of getting there via the wind. Most of the time when I start out in an OBE I am alone and I do enjoy getting to places where people abound because it's much easier for me to extend an OBE when I am with people. The wind quite often takes me to these places. > I still think it is best to seek out sources of light. These things/beings > tend to be more helpful - else they wouldn't shine :-) I'll admit I haven't yet tried this. I've never really been a "look for the light" kind of person when OBE. I tend to just follow whatever interests me. I have however, on occasion, made conscientious efforts to either ask for assistance (to whomever might hear me) or make direct requests for guidance from a person I am directly in contact with at the time. Neither method has been very effective. I do believe next chance I get I will search out this light you refer to and see where it takes me (if I can find it). Where or how do I find this light? Ken ###### Message-ID: <3747998D.A45A7F22@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Reply-To: sculpt@privatei.com Organization: fractal in nature X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.02 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <7i6uje$b0f$1@sparky.wolfe.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 61 Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:00:45 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.197 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 927439382 208.203.136.197 (Sun, 23 May 1999 00:03:02 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:03:02 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!coop.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Mark Cayton wrote: > This too is also what I have been finding quite a lot. I have just been > feeling that these beings are real but they are not as aware. They may just > be others in dreaming who are non-lucid, or dead souls, I can't really say. > I have often wondered how I appear to others in the astral before I 'go > lucid'. This is an interesting point. Certainly when I am OBE, I am in some kind of astral form rather than just a formless mind roaming around, so the possibility that other forms are just other astral travelers or even just dreamers having a go at an alternate reality is reasonable. Especially when you consider how many people are asleep in the world at any given time. One thing though. Quite often these people I try to talk to are actually doing something. Like one time I was talking to a blacksmith sort of fellow. he was busy working with some metal while I was talking to him. He had very little interest in talking to me and so I just left him alone. I guess he was busy making an astral living. Certainly this was not just another astral traveler or dreamer. He was most definitely a regular. :) > I have been very insistent on getting throught to them on some occasions. > Once I was in this chess tournament room, and most of them were all in this > semi-conscious state. I would begin a game and they would play a move or two > and wander off at random. I was really interested in being able to play a > game of chess in the Astral with someone, so I would persist in trying to > make these people finish off at least one game!! I really had to get 'in > their faces' with full intent to get the slightest comprehension. Needless > to say I would have won the chess game :) I think I would have a hard time playing chess on the astral because my thought processes are so different from what I am familiar with. Do you feel that when you were making these moves that you were actually looking ahead and contemplating possible repercussive moves from your opponent or are you a good enough player that you play more by board patterns than by looking into a game move for move? I guess I'm asking if you found your usual thought processes while playing this game were not so usual. > Some situations where I really do wake up and get intense vivid awareness in > the astral, I have the feeling that other entities have had to work pretty > hard to get my attention!! Ever had the same thought? I think this stuff is > going on on many levels... all the way up to the top. In a similar sense, > almost everyone around us in the physical is not really awake. We are > awakening to the truth of what is, but advanced spiritual beings would > probably percieve us in a similar manner to the way we are percieving these > non-responsive beings. Then we slowly come around and wake-up. This must be > neat to observe. Yes, this is a good point. There are times when I am not fully conscious or where I have a hard time trying to maintain being out and at times like these, people's conversations will drift in and out. It is very likely that if one of these other people was indeed another astral traveler, then they would perceive me as being a snob or mindless. I suppose if this is what is happening, then a gentle suggestion to a person you might be talking to, to "become more aware and you will find it easier to communicate with me" could go a long way. Thanks for the insight. Ken ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 18:34:31 -0400 Organization: Netcom Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7i9vpm$ejr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <3747952E.939623F6@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh41-44.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sun May 23 5:34:30 PM CDT 1999 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!ix.netcom.com!news >I do believe next chance I get I will search out this light you refer to and see >where it takes me (if I can find it). Where or how do I find this light? 1. Just look for it - any source of light. 2. Look up in the sky. There are many lights - one may stand out. 3. Create a light. Cause it to happen by bringing yourself to a focus on light. Please keep in mind - what I'm talking about is not necessarily the "Light of God", or Spirit, or the light that is mentioned in an NDE. It seems to be a portal - a doorway. I've had, what I would call, an experience with the "Light of God". It is a bit different from a light portal. The only way I know of having a light experience, other than a light portal, is complete surrender. It is very rare for me to completely surrender ;-) Bart ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 23:44:45 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <3747952E.939623F6@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bilby8.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.507 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Sat, 22 May 1999 23:42:06 -0600, The Original Ken wrote: < snip > >I do believe next chance I get I will search out this light you refer to and see >where it takes me (if I can find it). Where or how do I find this light? (1) Prayer. (2) Intention. (3) Imagine yourself as a hot, bright, radiating light and the light will find you. (You will rise through the dimensions). Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: Ann Marie Newell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Text turns to gobbledigook in OBE state! Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 01:00:04 -0700 Organization: Whole Earth Networks News Lines: 67 Message-ID: <374BA9FF.46985DEB@wenet.net> References: <7hpnvh$74k$1@news1.xs4all.nl> <37417684.F06641EF@privatei.com> <7ht7r7$lls@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <374232D4.1E7722F8@privatei.com> <7htf8p$rv5@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <3742C7D5.3AF19944@privatei.com> <7i08pt$50@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <3747952E.939623F6@privatei.com> <7i9vpm$ejr@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: annmarie@wenet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: haiti-96.ppp.hooked.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news2.best.com!noos.hooked.net!206.80.6.11.MISMATCH!its.hooked.net!not-for-mail I just came upon this very interesting thread.... late in the discussion (too much work in the physical world to spend much time reading about OBEs lately...oh well...) This one particularly caught my interest.... > 1. Just look for it - any source of light. > > 2. Look up in the sky. There are many lights - one may stand out. > > 3. Create a light. Cause it to happen by bringing yourself to a focus on > light. > > Please keep in mind - what I'm talking about is not necessarily the "Light > of God", or Spirit, or the light that is mentioned in an NDE. It seems to > be a portal - a doorway. > > I've had, what I would call, an experience with the "Light of God". It is a > bit different from a light portal. The only way I know of having a light > experience, other than a light portal, is complete surrender. It is very > rare for me to completely surrender ;-) > This is what struck me! I know what you mean about the difference between light "portals" and a light of the "spirit" experience. I have only had one experience a couple years ago in which I was struck by the sensation of being shown a very important spiritual light, and boy it was great (it also seemed to be random and didn't last very long) I found myself looking at a window with a bright white light shining through, I couldn't see anything concrete out of the window other than this magnificent white light...There were white curtains by the window fluttering and there was a cool wind coming through.. I heard a light twinkling type of music, like soft bells... It was a very serene experience and I've been wanting to have another one like ever since, so lately I've been trying to concentrate on "the light" when I go OBE... Anyway, when I was beginnning an OBE recently I concentrated on raising the frequency of my vibrations and seeing the light.. I felt that the vibrations were changing and some patterns came into view, but I didn't seem to be going anywhere with it.... I asked for some help from my spirit guide and asked "what do I do now?..." I didn't see a thing, the only word I heard was "surrender." It blew my mind because it seemed like such a simple instruction, but also so difficult to do. We (well let me speak for myself, I)... spend so much time in the physical world trying to do things "right," stay in control, maintain things in general that when the time comes to really let go and fully be "in" an experience it can seem so difficult to do. I felt like I got some pretty good advice in that experience, simply surrendering to the rhythms of life and beyond would probably make things a whole lot easier, out of body, and otherwise! ...oh and by the way, I have had a whole lot of OBE experiences in which I've tried to focus on words, signs, text, etc. and had them either disappear, fade, or become symbol-like as well. It was really interesting to read that others have had this experience.... I have seen text which looks like Egyptian hieroglyphs, Arabic, and other non-logically identifiable symbols.. In one particularly frustrating experience I was being "shown" some writings of what I can only describe as some key pieces of information which would unlock some of the mysteries of OBEs and the astral planes.. I remember being told (I seem to get audible instructions a lot in OBEs, much more than visual, tactile contact with spirit guides) that this was very important, and I simply had to remember them... How frustrating to wake up and realize that I had retained none of this information, other than the memory that I had been reading and also understanding something extremely important!! You've gotta love OBEs!! Thanks for this interesting thread.. Ann Marie > > Bart