Reply-To: "Trish" From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: RV Question Lines: 11 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /wsFGwQz+ggCttw+L/rwDoxSKHX7MqnihpC43PPbSoTGrCEcuexN+OgYSw//mp7L4dEOF7wy2pRO!J/WKo5K1mwjGKUIiLsRSkMkKtXXEctkdEodleExPI45oRsSQdpp6hjUqupNZ X-Complaints-To: abuse@gtei.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:54:54 GMT Distribution: world Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:54:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi folks ... Can anyone explain to me the difference between OBEs/Lucid Dreams and Remote Viewing? Thanks ... Trish ###### Message-ID: <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:09:49 +1000 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.19 X-Trace: 12 Apr 1999 20:07:59 +1000, 203.18.28.19 Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in4.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.19 Hi Trish > > Hi folks ... > > Can anyone explain to me the difference between OBEs/Lucid Dreams and Remote > Viewing? I think I read a post of yours where you said being OBE we know we are not dreaming, whilst being in a LD we know we are dreaming. I have to agree totally with that. :-) RV, now .... what exactly is remote viewing? That is sending a part of ourselves somewhere where we can view the surroundings, but we aren't actually leaving our physbody as such, I think. So, essentially, the difference between this and being OBE would be the fact that while we are OOB, we are leaving our physical body behind, we forget we even have a physical body in a sense. When we RV we are still firmly planted in the physical realm, but are in such a state of consciousness we can still pick up the sights from a distant scene. Dunno, might have really screwed that up I think. ;-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> Subject: Re: RV Question X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:38:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.81.139 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp2.clara.net 923942287 195.8.81.139 (Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:38:07 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:38:07 BST Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.ecrc.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp2.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail HI Trish and Craig, Have any of you read the latest Lucidity Institute FAQ on Lucid Dreaming. They seem to state in the chapter 1.3 (which is how LD's are related to OOBE's) unless I've read it wrong that they are most likely to be both the same experience. After what I have read on this newsgroup over the last year I find it very doubtful that they are the same experience. What are your opinions on it. Also, on a sidenote, I've been having a very good dreamcall recently and also when I woke up initially this morning I was able to start up a dream almost instantaneously but it was a little different as I am sure I was also awake at the same time. The dream seemed clearer than normal as I could sort of look at this object like I was looking at it in a waking reality but it didnt feel as though I was part of the scenery so I 'm sure it wasnt a Lucid Dream or even an OOBE (just my luck). Was it just a Vivid Dream or was I on the way to being able to go out of body. I would love to hear your thoughts on this (erm not telepathically of course ) -- Remember, to fly is not to walk, and to walk is not to fly. Lee. ###### Message-ID: <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.dreams.lucid Subject: Re: RV Question References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:43:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.204.238.176 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no X-Trace: news.telia.no 924119014 195.204.238.176 (Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:43:34 CEST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:43:34 CEST Organization: Telia Internet Public Access Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.telia.no!news.telia.no!not-for-mail Lee W wrote: > Have any of you read the latest Lucidity Institute FAQ on Lucid Dreaming. > They seem to state in the chapter 1.3 (which is how LD's are related to > OOBE's) unless I've read it wrong that they are most likely to be both the > same experience. After what I have read on this newsgroup over the last > year I find it very doubtful that they are the same experience. What are > your opinions on it. The many differences between OBEs and Lucid Dreams have been outlined many times, so it is a rather bad attempt by The Lucidity Institute to call it off as dreams.. But I guess you didn't notice that LI have renamed they Lucidity Institute FAQ to Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing to being the Official alt.dreams.lucid FAQ. I remember the unhappiness when I called my FAQ "Lucid Dreaming FAQ". But I haven't seen anyone lifting an eyebrow when the Lucidity Institute did this. Maybe it is because they managed to increase the size from 39 Kb to 78 Kb so that it is killfiled by the news-servers. I know that J L Williams' server have a killfile on 50 Kb, maybe it is not that uncommon. I guess you are happy now Williams, one less FAQ to download... ;) I can't understand how they managed to increase it to 78 Kb without putting that that much more info in it, I for one didn't get that much more info out of the newest FAQ compared to their old. Except that they had to make it clear that their opinion about OBEs is that it is nothing more than dreams. Not do I understand why we would have two completely different types of dreams, but I guess the Lucidity Institute have all the answers... 78 Kb is almost too big for me, even with 128 Kbits and 64 Kbits connections. Not yet set any killfile, but their FAQ may be the first. Just wondering if there are many people out there that don't even get the FAQ? (Meaning that it is killfiled before it reach you) So long, - Lars ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:13:59 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 93 Message-ID: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa134.du.pipex.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 924118025 24298 193.130.240.134 (14 Apr 1999 19:27:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Apr 1999 19:27:05 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!eyre.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:54:54 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >Can anyone explain to me the difference between OBEs/Lucid Dreams and Remote >Viewing? Hi Trish. The responses to your question mostly wandered off in the direction of identifying OBEs and LDs, as so often happens. I've done heaps of Lucid Dreaming all my life (interesting whilst it happens, always know you are dreaming, boring to discuss afterwards) and a tiny bit of OBE (very different indeed from anything else: full consciousness, syrupy fluid mobility, over too soon). These days I am doing mostly Astral Travelling and Remote Viewing. AT is interesting and easy, as it is all controlled visualisation (so far) but it is purposeful and satisfying. I visit interesting locations, zoom in and out to watch atoms splitting and the galaxies expanding, travel in time, review past lives, give healing to those who have asked for it, that sort of thing. All done from meditation and if someone spoke or questioned me (baby crying etc) I would be aware and able to respond. Easy to teach, fun to share in groups. But I am having real trouble comprehending what is going on in Remote Viewing. I have read several books, websites etc about RV and they all state that physical reality can be clearly observed, with some suggestion that recent past events can be observed as well. So there is some control over time as well as location by the RV experts. Also they work from unknown locations, so 'tap' into the mind of whoever decided that the RV viewers should locate Saddam Hussein, for instance. So there is a strong telepathic element. My own RVing has observed physical locations, furnishing, faces and hairdos and clothing of people I have arranged to visit, with astonishing accuracy in the great majority of attempts. But I have also picked up on emotional images and things which are no longer there (eg Jim's old curtains). I saw Laura wearing the clothes she had worn during the previous day when she was planning what to wear for our 'date'! Beth's silk flowers glowed luminous green - obviously flowering plants but unusually vivid and 'there' as though hand-made articles pick up the love and attention given to them by their maker. (William Morris was right about machine-produced articles having no soul!). But RVing is more than splitting off a section of consciousness and sending it to a site. I have been aware of directed travel to a location which glowed like a red LED on the surface of the planet - even without using a map. All my views have been as though I was floating in the air from just below the ceiling, exactly as Near Death Experiencers describe, and as I did once, suffocating under General Anaesthetic. Laura's cat went crazy the moment I arrived, although Laura could not 'see' me. Dick Silk and Laura both saw a 'dream vision' image of me as I choose to look, not as I actually look. Trish, you and Beth both saw my Selenite Wand, you before I had mentioned that I had just bought one. So something very complex is going on here. Several times I have had an answer to a question asked later which has come direct from my Angel. Eg Beth asked what colour nightie she had been wearing and my Angel shouted 'Bright Pink!' correctly. So I know that if I can find people willing to 'train' me in doing this by asking questions, that I could improve this skill dramatically. RV seems to be a very useful skill, and one with huge implications. If we can learn to read locations accurately, then that is useful. But if we can learn to read emotions and thought-patterns accurately, then contacting people in comas or severely physically disabled or mentally ill should become possible, and this could be of huge benefit to those individuals. Also to their families, worried sick by being unable to communicate. Not sure that there are many people on the planet who could become able to tap into Stephen Hawkins' brain, though! The most satisfactory explanation of RV I have yet read came from Fred Wolf's book about Shamanic Consciousness. This is definitely a RV state of mind, although the Shamans are very highly trained and capable. They use powerful drugs to learn how to do this. I was just begging for that drug by the time I finished reading the book! The Shamanic state is very similar to good old English Witchery. Terry Pratchett explains it well in his Discworld books about Granny Weatherwax travelling inside an animal's mind, and leaving a card on her chest saying "I aten't dead!". The Hive mind in 'Lords and Ladies' gives especial food for thought. Michael Talbot's 'Holographic Universe' proposes exactly the same explanation that Shamans give, albeit in more technical terms. The Universe is a huge net spun by a spider, in which every strand connects with every other and alters the pattern of every other vibrating strand as a single one is plucked. These vibrations encompass the truth; the translation from the wave to the particle is the essence of Quantum Physics. It is the individual's observation which changes everything from the atom to the galaxy. The Shaman has always known this, and other people called this physics Magic. Well, I have always seen magic around me and I have always wanted to practice it. As Granny Weatherwax would say: "It ain't magic, it's only Headology. Magic is what I don't understand. But I will." Coo, sorry for rambling on. So yes, I know that there are Newsgroups for discussing LDs, NDEs, Angels, Channelling, Reincarnation and Past-Life Regression etc etc. But this is the only one which continues to struggle to define the indefinable and to open up the parameters instead of closing down the barriers. Out-of-body is the glue which holds all these disparate experiences together so that we can dissect the living mass, not broken-off limbs. Less definition, more experience, please! All best wishes, Julia. ###### From: "Jake" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:59:52 +0200 Organization: Telia Internet Services Lines: 24 Message-ID: <371501e1.0@d2o31.telia.com> References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: d2o31.telia.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t3o31p35.telia.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@internet.telia.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!newspost.telia.com!d2o31.telia.com!t3o31p35.telia.com Craig skrev i meddelandet <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message>... > > >Hi Trish >> >> Hi folks ... >> >> Can anyone explain to me the difference between OBEs/Lucid Dreams and Remote >> Viewing? > >I think I read a post of yours where you said being OBE we know we are >not dreaming, whilst being in a LD we know we are dreaming. I have to >agree totally with that. :-) RV, now .... what exactly is remote >viewing? That is sending a part of ourselves somewhere where we can view >the surroundings, but we aren't actually leaving our physbody as such, I >think. Like throwing an non-physical eyeball up to the ceiling? Weird. /Jake ###### From: J L Williams Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:09:21 +0100 Lines: 45 Message-ID: <1999041423092175767@zetnet.co.uk> References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail The message <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> from Lars Foleide contains these words: > But I guess you didn't notice that LI have renamed they Lucidity Institute FAQ > to > Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing to being the Official > alt.dreams.lucid.FAQ. I do think that they have as much recorded research and experience of Lucid Dreaming as anyone else and are more entitled than most to do this. > I remember the unhappiness when I called my FAQ "Lucid Dreaming FAQ". > But I haven't seen anyone lifting an eyebrow when the Lucidity Institute did > this. I do not think this bears any further comparison. > Maybe it is because they managed to increase the size from 39 Kb to 78 Kb so > that it is killfiled by the news-servers. I know that J L Williams' server have a > killfile on 50 Kb, Nope! Sorry your wrong there. If you are going to reference earlier posts then you do need to quote them correctly. But I wish I had, it would KILFILE a lot of other faqing FAQ's as well ;) > maybe it is not that uncommon. > I guess you are happy now Williams, one less FAQ to download... ;) I would be happier Foliede if I could save myself a down load of your faqing FAQ's ALSO POSTED IN THIS NEWSGROUP WHICH ARE S** ALL TO DO WITH DREAMING OR LUCID DREAMING!!! So please take note! Having said that you must have been on jankers these past few days.... you have not posted those FAQ's this past weekend have you :-} What happened? Found a real interest in life? Have a happy week off Lars Regards Jim Watch and pray, time hastes away. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.dreams.lucid Subject: Re: RV Question Date: 15 Apr 1999 21:22:23 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 59 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6u3e21664w.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Lars Foleide writes: > > But I guess you didn't notice that LI have renamed they Lucidity > Institute FAQ to Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing > to being the Official alt.dreams.lucid FAQ. For that they would have to call it alt.dreams.lucid FAQ. LD != alt.dreams.lucid OOBE != alt.out-of-body In both cases the first is the thing itsself, the second is an newsgroup about the thing. An ng FAQ is a collection of frequent answers collected from the group. The first is an FAQ from an authority on it, LI or TMI. > I remember the unhappiness when I called my FAQ "Lucid Dreaming FAQ". Well, you are not quite LI :-). > Maybe it is because they managed to increase the size from 39 Kb to 78 Kb so So that is what happend! Doubling the size with over 600 lines before, put them above my news servers 1000 line threshold. No wonder they are gone. One large (and for a.oob irrelevant) FAQ less to download. > it is killfiled by the news-servers. I know that J L Williams' > server have a killfile on 50 Kb, maybe it is not that uncommon. Well my 1000 lines is about 50k. Selected to be about 1/2 minute on my 14400 modem. Did in RLs monster posts on a.c.nde, and many .DOC posts. > I guess you are happy now Williams, one less FAQ to download... ;) Well I am. Thanks to LI for bloating :-). Never thought I would say that. > 78 Kb is almost too big for me, even with 128 Kbits and 64 Kbits connections. > Not yet set any killfile, but their FAQ may be the first. For me it is too big. That 1000 lines was the first entry in my killfile. > Just wondering if there are many people out there that don't even > get the FAQ? (Meaning that it is killfiled before it reach you) Yes, myself. -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ 20th century record companies fit the 21st century data highways as good as 19th century stagecoaches fit the 20th century freeways ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: RV Question X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:31:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.81.168 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp2.clara.net 924190299 195.8.81.168 (Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:31:39 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:31:39 BST Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp2.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi Julie, Thanks for a very interesting read. -- Remember, to fly is not to walk, and to walk is not to fly. Lee. ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: RV Question Lines: 8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:31:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.81.212 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp2.clara.net 924197481 195.8.81.212 (Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:31:21 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 18:31:21 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp2.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Oops, I meant Julia (I am curently chatting to someone in Internet Chat called Jule):) -- Remember, to fly is not to walk, and to walk is not to fly. Lee. ###### Message-ID: <3716ED97.2786D930@netparadise.no> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 08:58:15 +0100 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,alt.dreams.lucid Subject: Re: RV Question References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> <1999041423092175767@zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p36.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p36.telia.com Lines: 69 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t7o204p36.telia.com J L Williams wrote: > > But I guess you didn't notice that LI have renamed they Lucidity Institute FAQ > > to > > Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing to being the Official > > alt.dreams.lucid.FAQ. > > I do think that they have as much recorded research and experience of > Lucid Dreaming as anyone else and are more entitled than most to do this. If you don't know, alt.dreams.lucid isn't _their_ newsgroup, it is a newsgroup forpeople interested in discussing Lucid Dreams. So unless it is cooperative work by the group it can never be the official FAQ. Unless everyone in the newsgroup accept it as the official FAQ. Not that I'm saying that the LI FAQ is any way the official FAQ. It is just that it was one of many arguments that was brought up in the discussion on what name my FAQ should have. A title like "alt.dreams.lucid FAQ" is more like an official FAQ. Problem is that I couldn't find any apparnent reason for why the LI would rename their FAQ. > > I remember the unhappiness when I called my FAQ "Lucid Dreaming FAQ". > > But I haven't seen anyone lifting an eyebrow when the Lucidity Institute did > > this. > > I do not think this bears any further comparison. >From what I know you haven't even read my FAQ.So I think that speaks for itself. > > Maybe it is because they managed to increase the size from 39 Kb to 78 Kb so > > that it is killfiled by the news-servers. I know that J L Williams' server have a > > killfile on 50 Kb, > > Nope! Sorry your wrong there. If you are going to reference earlier > posts then you do need to quote them correctly. But I wish I had, it > would KILFILE a lot of other faqing FAQ's as well ;) Are you saying that your server does not have have kill-file limit on 50 Kb?The LI FAQ is the first to go over that limit around these areas, so I not so sure if other FAQs would be killfiled as well. I'm rather sure you have in an earlier post said that your server have a killfile on 50 Kb, if you deny this, then I might be able to dig up some reference. > Having said that you must have been on jankers these past few > days.... you have not posted those FAQ's this past weekend have you > :-} What happened? Found a real interest in life? Actually, someone (can't remember who) invented the clock. So that such aweekly posting can be done automatically. The reason for the FAQ not being posted lately is not because I have found something "better" to do, but because I'm having some technical problems. I have a lot patience, but if the problem don't solve itself soon will I have to take action. So don't expect the FAQs to be gone forever... ;) > Have a happy week off Lars Thanks, you must certainly have a fine week as well... I'm rather sure I will, got a new 3d-cart (Creative Voodoo Banshee 16 Mb) so that playing games with be many times enjoyable. Not only that, I have been downloading games night and day lately (sponsored by the military). So that I will have enough to do this weekend. Just need to place the games on a cd or two before travelling home. Cheers, Lars ###### From: J L Williams Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Fri, 16 Apr 1999 10:28:34 +0100 Message-ID: <1999041610283475767@zetnet.co.uk> References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> <1999041423092175767@zetnet.co.uk> <3716ED97.2786D930@netparadise.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Lines: 117 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail The message <3716ED97.2786D930@netparadise.no> from Lars Foleide contains these words: > J L Williams wrote: > > > But I guess you didn't notice that LI have renamed they Lucidity Institute FAQ > > > to > > > Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing to being the Official > > > alt.dreams.lucid.FAQ. I didn't mention this before but wasn't your FAQ so named initially? > > I do think that they have as much recorded research and experience of > > Lucid Dreaming as anyone else and are more entitled than most to do this. > If you don't know, alt.dreams.lucid isn't _their_ newsgroup, it is a newsgroup > forpeople interested in discussing Lucid Dreams. So unless it is cooperative work > by the group it can never be the official FAQ. Yes that is so but they do say something like "Published by the Lucidity Institute" or words to that effect. I can't reference it because I deleted it :-} Don't worry-it will be there yet again today/tomorrow :-/ > Unless everyone in the newsgroup > accept it as the official FAQ. Well I was not canvassed on that point! But anyway have now stopped taking that group. Lots of posts were posted there and in this group. > Not that I'm saying that the LI FAQ is any way > the official FAQ. It is just that it was one of many arguments that was brought up > in the discussion on what name my FAQ should have. A title like > "alt.dreams.lucid FAQ" is more like an official FAQ. > Problem is that I couldn't find any apparnent reason for why the LI would rename > their FAQ. Why not ask them? I would be interested in the reply......if you got one ;) > > > I remember the unhappiness when I called my FAQ "Lucid Dreaming FAQ". > > > But I haven't seen anyone lifting an eyebrow when the Lucidity Institute did > > > this. > > > > I do not think this bears any further comparison. > >From what I know you haven't even read my FAQ.So I think that speaks for itself. Well, when it was first published I did. I did say so at the time and praised your efforts. Believe me most people know how much effort it takes to research and type up that much work. Probably comes close to a thesis :-) > > > Maybe it is because they managed to increase the size from 39 Kb to 78 Kb so > > > that it is killfiled by the news-servers. I know that J L Williams' server have a > > > killfile on 50 Kb, > > > > Nope! Sorry your wrong there. If you are going to reference earlier > > posts then you do need to quote them correctly. But I wish I had, it > > would KILFILE a lot of other faqing FAQ's as well ;) > Are you saying that your server does not have have kill-file limit on 50 Kb? Actually it is 80 Kb so I have read. It also wont let binaries in.....not that I need them but it is a bone of contention within the group. Lots are now going to a freeserve ISP to overcome this. > The LI FAQ > is the first to go over that limit around these areas, so I not so sure > if other FAQs would be killfiled as well. > I'm rather sure you have in an earlier post said that your server have a killfile > on 50 Kb, if you deny this, then I might be able to dig up some reference. See above. > > Having said that you must have been on jankers these past few > > days.... you have not posted those FAQ's this past weekend have you > > :-} What happened? Found a real interest in life? > Actually, someone (can't remember who) invented the clock. So that such aweekly posting > can be done automatically. The reason for the FAQ not being > posted lately is not because I have found something "better" to do, but > because I'm having some technical problems. I have a lot patience, but if the > problem don't solve itself soon will I have to take action. So don't expect > the FAQs to be gone forever... ;) Oh, pity :-) Only joking Lars, if the FAQ's are serving the purpose as intended then so be it. It's just that I wish there was not so many of them all in each others newsgroups. Like an OBE FAQ for this group and an LD FAQ for the LD group. That would be great for servers like mine :) > > Have a happy week off Lars > Thanks, you must certainly have a fine week as well... > I'm rather sure I will, got a new 3d-cart (Creative Voodoo Banshee 16 Mb) > so that playing games with be many times enjoyable. > Not only that, I have been downloading games night and day lately > (sponsored by the military). So that I will have enough to do this weekend. > Just need to place the games on a cd or two before travelling home. Well I'm not likely to....my computer is locking up with Exceptional Errors and the dreaded blue screen is requiring a reboot every 30 mins or so. I feel that the HDD I put in 15 months ago is on the blink by the noise it makes. > Cheers, > Lars Regards Jim ###### From: dromero@roanoke.infi.net (Douglas J. Romero, MD) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: RV Question Date: 16 Apr 1999 22:29:50 GMT Organization: InfiNet Message-ID: <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-23.roanoke.infi.net X-Newsreader: Ink Spot 1.18 for Newton Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.visi.net!news.infi.net!not-for-mail In message <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com>, hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > > On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 01:54:54 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >Can anyone explain to me the difference between OBEs/Lucid Dreams and Remote > >Viewing? > Coo, sorry for rambling on. So yes, I know that there are > Newsgroups for discussing LDs, NDEs, Angels, Channelling, > Reincarnation and Past-Life Regression etc etc. But this is the only > one which continues to struggle to define the indefinable and to open > up the parameters instead of closing down the barriers. Out-of-body is > the glue which holds all these disparate experiences together so that > we can dissect the living mass, not broken-off limbs. > Less definition, more experience, please! > All best wishes, Julia. I can certainly understand your point Julia. However, definitions are important if you are going to engage in the scientific study of these phenomena. And of course science is necessary if we are to understand, and ultimately control these events. The big problem of course being that the fields have not come to an agreement of the definitions in the parapsychological field. -- Douglas J. Romero, MD University of Virginia Salem-Roanoke Psychiatry Program ###### Message-ID: <3717CF2D.104A2EC0@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:00:45 +1000 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3713AA74.B1D2AECC@the.end.of.the.message> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.6 X-Trace: 17 Apr 1999 18:44:01 +1000, 203.18.28.6 Lines: 50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news-lond.gip.net!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!grolier!ams.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!in4.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.6 Lee W wrote: > > Hi Craig, > Thanks for your insights, alot to think about there. Its just that after > reading many peoples opinions on this ngroup and elsewhere, most seem to > think that you can tell a LD from an OOBe straight away if you have had the > two experiences. I have had a couple of LD's in the past six months where > they did feel real but I knew I was in my body dreaming. So I cant wait for > my first OOBE which hopefully I will be able to tell the two experiences > apart then. No worries Lee. :-) It's good to see that you have a firm hold on the point I like to push ... nobody can give you a definitive answer to your questions, to anyone's questions, we can mealy offer advice on what we know from our own experiences. :-) If everyone could keep that in mind, then, gain as many varied answers to their questions as they can, we would have a much broader pool of thought to gain knowledge from and form our own opinions. :-) Never take someone's advice as 'fact' unless it is something that is generally agreed upon or proven. With that said (LOL), from my experience, (see I said it ;-}) there is no mistaking a full blown OBE with a WILD or a LD. :-) You will know. :-) > > Remember, to fly is not to walk, and to walk is not to fly. > >> And to pretend to fly, when you only walk is just a load of talk! ;-) > > I must remember to jump off the highest building in my first OOBE to prove > that :) Hmmm, maybe if you try floating up off the ground first. Wouldn't want you to jump, thinking you were OOB, if you were actually in the physical. ;-) All the best Craig > -- > Remember, to fly is not to walk, and to walk is not to fly. > > Lee. -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### Message-ID: <3717D09C.F0F1A778@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 10:06:52 +1000 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <371501e1.0@d2o31.telia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.6 X-Trace: 17 Apr 1999 18:44:04 +1000, 203.18.28.6 Lines: 44 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in4.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.6 Jake wrote: > > Craig skrev i meddelandet <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message>... > > > > > >Hi Trish > >> > >> Hi folks ... > >> > >> Can anyone explain to me the difference between OBEs/Lucid Dreams and > Remote > >> Viewing? > > > >I think I read a post of yours where you said being OBE we know we are > >not dreaming, whilst being in a LD we know we are dreaming. I have to > >agree totally with that. :-) RV, now .... what exactly is remote > >viewing? That is sending a part of ourselves somewhere where we can view > >the surroundings, but we aren't actually leaving our physbody as such, I > >think. > > Like throwing an non-physical eyeball up to the ceiling? Weird. Well actually, I've been thinking a bit about what might be happening when people RV. If, like I like to think, nothing is leaving the physical body, perhaps RVers have a way of tapping into the cosmos in such a way, they can bring the information they gather; to them, instead of 'going out' to get the information. Sort of like sitting at the computer and surfing the web. No need to go anywhere, just bring all the information to you. :-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 22:51:48 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Message-ID: <37190617.136611657@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa218.du.pipex.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 924386663 9331 193.130.240.218 (17 Apr 1999 22:04:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Apr 1999 22:04:23 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Lines: 62 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On 16 Apr 1999 22:29:50 GMT, dromero@roanoke.infi.net (Douglas J. Romero, MD) wrote: >I can certainly understand your point Julia. However, definitions are >important if you are going to engage in the scientific study of these >phenomena. And of course science is necessary if we are to understand, and >ultimately control these events. > I'm not "going to engage in the scientific study of these phenomena." Why should I? I never pretended to be a scientist, just a traveller in space and time. I grew up bending all the rules and testing all the barriers, and I will continue to do so, thank goodness. Why is science necessary? Physicists thought Plato, then Galileo, then Newton had it all sorted out, then Einstein, and are now turning quantum somersaults all over again. If Science relies upon definitions made in the past, it becomes out-of-date very fast indeed. Closed minds = closed futures. And what exactly is the purpose of science? To comprehend and thus improve the human experience? If so, then to read the quantum message is to recognise that it is observation which creates matter. If the act of observation is so powerful, then the humans observing matter are all aspects of God. The moving finger of God dictates the structure of the universe, as a Victorian scientist (name?) observed: "The atom is the building brick of the universe, and it is all glued together with Love". If you recognise love as the glue, then quantum science falls into place... Control? Control is recognition of the moving-power of different forces. If the power of love is excluded from the equation, destruction occurs. We have only to look at the awesome achievements of scientists working without love to realise this: terrifying pollution, global warming, nuclear waste, weapons of mass destruction, the sheer cost of the space race. I have been to the moon, it cost me nothing to go there, I flew there and back in milliseconds. Train me in remote viewing and I'll describe all the universe for you. Cost = negligible, pollution = nil, and all achieved through the power of love. If I can do it, so can anyone and everyone else. The human race is on the brink of another evolutionary step, exploring and controlling its environment through 'dreams'. Sadly, this pet theory does invalidate the fundamental premise of my beloved Star Trek: in a few centuries time, we won't need bigger and faster starships, as we can do all the travelling and exploration we want from the inside of our heads. But if we don't spend all that cash on starships, at least we can afford to feed, heal and house every human on the planet. Why can't we start to do that now? >The big problem of course being that the >fields have not come to an agreement of the definitions in the >parapsychological field. Parapsychology offers physicists the best chances of opening their locked minds. To understand how a wave becomes a particle when you look at it is comprehensible through obeing; incomprehensible without. Even that really famous American physicist agreed that reincarnation, 'lost limb' sensation in amputees and telepathy do exist and were deserving of major scientific study (um... his surname began with S, not Sartre, died recently, last book was a powerful denounciation of New Age anti-scientific attitudes, well except that all us woolly thinkers might actually be right if you allowed that reincarnation etc could be of genuine scientific value....Oh, you know his name...Tip of my tongue...). All best wishes, Julia HM. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: 18 Apr 1999 19:07:11 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 17 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6u90bp26yo.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> <37190617.136611657@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: > > (um... his surname began with S, > not Sartre, died recently, last book was a powerful denounciation of > New Age anti-scientific attitudes, well except that all us woolly > thinkers might actually be right if you allowed that reincarnation etc > could be of genuine scientific value....Oh, you know his name...Tip of > my tongue...). Looks like you are thinking of Carl Sagan. -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ 20th century record companies fit the 21st century data highways as good as 19th century stagecoaches fit the 20th century freeways ###### Message-ID: <371A829F.17C2@cwcom.spammeanddie.net> Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:10:55 -0700 From: Philip Potter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RV Question References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> <37190617.136611657@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed.ecrc.net!arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!nntp-nih2naaf.prod2.compuserve.com > Parapsychology offers physicists the best chances of opening their > locked minds. To understand how a wave becomes a particle when you > look at it is comprehensible through obeing; incomprehensible without. Not really. Just remember, in Galileo's time, the thought of the Earth going round the Sun was so controversial that the Church persecuted and killed him. Just because it may be difficult to comprehend now, doesn't mean in 5, 10, 50, 5000 years time it will still be just as hard. > Even that really famous American physicist agreed that reincarnation, > 'lost limb' sensation in amputees and telepathy do exist and were > deserving of major scientific study (um... his surname began with S, > not Sartre, died recently, last book was a powerful denounciation of > New Age anti-scientific attitudes, well except that all us woolly > thinkers might actually be right if you allowed that reincarnation etc > could be of genuine scientific value....Oh, you know his name...Tip of > my tongue...). > All best wishes, Julia HM. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> <1999041423092175767@zetnet.co.uk> <3716ED97.2786D930@netparadise.no> <1999041610283475767@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: RV Question Lines: 64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:37:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.204.238.217 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no X-Trace: news.telia.no 924464232 195.204.238.217 (Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:37:12 CEST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 21:37:12 CEST Organization: Telia Internet Public Access Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news.algonet.se!algonet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.telia.no!news.telia.no!not-for-mail J L Williams wrote in message > > > > > But I guess you didn't notice that LI have renamed they Lucidity Institute FAQ > > > > to > > > > Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing to being the Official > > > > alt.dreams.lucid.FAQ. > > I didn't mention this before but wasn't your FAQ so named initially? Nope, it was named "Lucid Dreaming FAQ" then changed to "Lars' Lucid Dreaming FAQ".... > > Not that I'm saying that the LI FAQ is any way > > the official FAQ. It is just that it was one of many arguments that was brought up > > in the discussion on what name my FAQ should have. A title like > > "alt.dreams.lucid FAQ" is more like an official FAQ. > > Problem is that I couldn't find any apparnent reason for why the LI would rename > > their FAQ. > > Why not ask them? I would be interested in the reply......if you got one ;) Hmm... worth a try... Maybe I'll ask'em and find out why they renamed their FAQ when it has a lot to do about The Lucidity Institute, not just Lucid Dreaming. > > Are you saying that your server does not have have kill-file limit on 50 Kb? > > Actually it is 80 Kb so I have read. It also wont let binaries > in.....not that I need them but it is a bone of contention within the > group. Lots are now going to a freeserve ISP to overcome this. That is too bad, had it been 10-11 Kb more then have to download it every week... > > Well I'm not likely to....my computer is locking up with Exceptional > Errors and the dreaded blue screen is requiring a reboot every 30 > mins or so. I feel that the HDD I put in 15 months ago is on the > blink by the noise it makes. Sounds like a problem I have had myself... I think I also though it was the HD when it in fact was the fan that made such noise. Fans don't live that long, if they start running slow will your CPU overheat and start making errors, causing the system to crash. I lived for several months with my computer crashing after it being on for a while. Just bought a new fan, and the problem was solved... But if you are sure it is your HD, then run a scandisk on it, if it find a a lot of errors, then it might be the problem. But since your system is crashing so often would I think it is the fan... Regards, Lars ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:39:00 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 16 Message-ID: <371a3497.42413139@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> <37190617.136611657@news.dial.pipex.com> <6u90bp26yo.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa210.du.pipex.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 924461540 21816 193.130.240.210 (18 Apr 1999 18:52:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Apr 1999 18:52:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On 18 Apr 1999 19:07:11 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: >hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: >>>> (um... his surname began with S, >> not Sartre, died recently, last book was a powerful denounciation of >> New Age anti-scientific attitudes, well except that all us woolly >> thinkers might actually be right if you allowed that reincarnation etc >> could be of genuine scientific value....Oh, you know his name...Tip of >> my tongue...). > >Looks like you are thinking of Carl Sagan. Thank you, Neil. Now, for a further ten points, can you name the Victorian scientist referred to in my post? :) All the best, Julia. ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Sun, 18 Apr 1999 19:42:15 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 16 Message-ID: <371a3500.42518980@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> <37190617.136611657@news.dial.pipex.com> <371A829F.17C2@cwcom.spammeanddie.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa163.du.pipex.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 924461735 22123 193.130.240.163 (18 Apr 1999 18:55:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Apr 1999 18:55:35 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:10:55 -0700, Philip Potter wrote: Julia: >> Parapsychology offers physicists the best chances of opening their >> locked minds. To understand how a wave becomes a particle when you >> look at it is comprehensible through obeing; incomprehensible without. > >Not really. Just remember, in Galileo's time, the thought of the Earth >going round the Sun was so controversial that the Church persecuted and >killed him. Just because it may be difficult to comprehend now, doesn't >mean in 5, 10, 50, 5000 years time it will still be just as hard. Exactly. Same thing happened to Socrates for asking questions about the society he lived in. We obers have it easy in comparison! All the best, Julia. ###### From: gfostel@aol.com (GFostel) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Apr 1999 03:40:23 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: Message-ID: <19990418234023.26031.00002463@ng32.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Someone complained of having a flaky system and someone else posted: Sounds like a problem I have had myself... I think I also though it was the HD when it in fact was the fan that made such noise. Fans don't live that long, if they start running slow will your CPU overheat and start making errors, causing the system to crash Very true. Beware also simple dustballs inside you system. They can cause improper airflow and heat or the air currents through them can induce static charge causing errors. You should open it up and blow out dust with a can of compressed air every year or so. ---GaryFostel--- ###### From: gfostel@aol.com (GFostel) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Apr 1999 03:47:08 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <371A829F.17C2@cwcom.spammeanddie.net> Message-ID: <19990418234708.26031.00002466@ng32.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!europa.clark.net!europa.netcrusader.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Someone wrote: Parapsychology offers physicists the best chances of opening their locked minds. To understand how a wave becomes a particle when you look at it is comprehensible through obeing; incomprehensible without. Physics is not about comprehending reality, but modeling and predicting its observed behavior. It's not that a phenomenon changes from a wave to a partical, but rather in response to certain stimulus, the best model for the phenomenon changes from a wave model to a partical model. It aint epistomology. ---GaryFostel--- ###### From: J L Williams Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 09:38:11 +0100 Lines: 50 Message-ID: <1999041909381175767@zetnet.co.uk> References: <19990411191220.23915.00000994@ng-fv1.aol.com> <1999041200375375767@zetnet.co.uk> <3711B85D.54D02AE4@the.end.of.the.message> <3714FDF0.8E07E8C8@netparadise.no> <1999041423092175767@zetnet.co.uk> <3716ED97.2786D930@netparadise.no> <1999041610283475767@zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.arcor-ip.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail The message from "Lars Rune Foleide" contains these words: > > > > > Lucid Dreaming FAQ, like if they where proposing to being the > Official > > > > > alt.dreams.lucid.FAQ. > > > > I didn't mention this before but wasn't your FAQ so named initially? > Nope, it was named "Lucid Dreaming FAQ" then changed to "Lars' Lucid > Dreaming FAQ".... Er...ummmm I did actually mean Lucid dreaming faq......apologies for the ambiguity:) > > > > Well I'm not likely to....my computer is locking up with Exceptional > > Errors and the dreaded blue screen is requiring a reboot every 30 > > mins or so. I feel that the HDD I put in 15 months ago is on the > > blink by the noise it makes. > Sounds like a problem I have had myself... I think I also though it was > the HD when it in fact was the fan that made such noise. Fans > don't live that long, if they start running slow will your CPU overheat > and start making errors, causing the system to crash. I lived for > several months with my computer crashing after it being on for a > while. Just bought a new fan, and the problem was solved... > But if you are sure it is your HD, then run a scandisk on it, if it find a > a lot of errors, then it might be the problem. But since your system > is crashing so often would I think it is the fan... Yes, that is what it was, the fan! I opened it up and thought "I will check the vibration and see if it is the HDD" before I take the HDD back to the shop. The noise came and the fan went to half speed. Well one new fan at £4.99 and I'm back in business-thank goodness. What a fright;-) Cheers Jim > Regards, > Lars ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <19990418234023.26031.00002463@ng32.aol.com> Subject: Re: RV Question Lines: 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:52:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.81.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: mors.clara.net 924547952 195.8.81.25 (Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:52:32 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 19:52:32 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!212.63.192.161.MISMATCH!newshub.bart.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!mors.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi, > You should open it up and blow out dust with a can of compressed air every year or so. Or even use a straw and blow around inside if you dont have any compressed air. -- Remember, to fly is not to walk, and to walk is not to fly. Lee. ###### Message-ID: <371BF845.2582@cwcom.spammeanddie.net> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 20:45:09 -0700 From: Philip Potter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RV Question References: <3714e965.4564981@news.dial.pipex.com> <7f8dku$r8f$2@nw003t.infi.net> <37190617.136611657@news.dial.pipex.com> <371A829F.17C2@cwcom.spammeanddie.net> <371a3500.42518980@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.ecrc.net!arl-news-svc-3.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!nntp-nih2naac.compuserve.com Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > On Sun, 18 Apr 1999 18:10:55 -0700, Philip Potter > wrote: > > Julia: > >> Parapsychology offers physicists the best chances of opening their > >> locked minds. To understand how a wave becomes a particle when you > >> look at it is comprehensible through obeing; incomprehensible without. > > > >Not really. Just remember, in Galileo's time, the thought of the Earth > >going round the Sun was so controversial that the Church persecuted and > >killed him. Just because it may be difficult to comprehend now, doesn't > >mean in 5, 10, 50, 5000 years time it will still be just as hard. > > Exactly. Same thing happened to Socrates for asking questions about > the society he lived in. We obers have it easy in comparison! > All the best, Julia. And so comes the rhyme: Said Aristotle unto Plato, "Have another sweet potato," Said Plato unto Aristotle, "Thanks but I prefer the bottle!" But the point I was trying to make is that it's not just OBErs that can comprehend quantum theory, which (or so it seemed to me) was what you were saying (though I could be wrong) Philip ###### From: "MagicMan" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Search and prove Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 17:12:50 +0100 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <7ffkqs$3gt$1@duke.telepac.pt> NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.65.190.134 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!brown.telepac.pt!news.telepac.pt!duke.telepac.pt!news.telepac.pt!not-for-mail Hi again ppl After reading and checking Jerry's web site I found firstly that he mistyped its in fact : www.oesi.com/searchandprove/ unfortunatly I found that the site doesn't contain much information on the subject. That's just too bad if he is THE expert on the matter we are all missing valuable knowledge becaue the site puts a price on his knowledge ! Of course there is the discussion forum but things aren't quite the same has some clean documents shearing wizdom . That leaves me with one question : Hey Jerry how about some free of charge information ? Dont take my comments the wrong way ....I just want to bring knowledge to the people trough the experts cya ppl Keep projecting ###### From: rlyb@webtv.net (Rhonda Bollen) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: RV Question Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:13:17 -0500 (CDT) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 2 Message-ID: <29749-372136CD-61@newsd-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <371b8998.10207259@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRSH27iBr1ueEKIDtGBjDZBf/Bw0gIVAK9nCPR8vqNPEClbKYYbsUfbwPkd Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail What is RV? Thanks ###### Message-ID: <3723E033.2E6F@cwcom.spammeanddie.net> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1999 20:40:35 -0700 From: Philip Potter X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: RV Question References: <371b8998.10207259@news.melbpc.org.au> <29749-372136CD-61@newsd-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!158.205.228.2!news.idc.ad.jp!nspixp2!newsgate1.web.ad.jp!arl-news-svc-4.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!nntp-ntdwwaaw.compuserve.com Rhonda Bollen wrote: > > What is RV? Thanks Er, it's complicated. But basically, it's where you "see" something somewhere where you aren't - such as seeing what, say, your sister is doing right now without being there. But it's not the same as OBE, because (apparently, this is still of shaky and "not sure" status) the astral body does not leave the physical. Philip