$From: clairity@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Newbies - Vibrations! Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 20:18:35 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 50 Message-ID: <7dtvuh$eql$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36FEAFAC.48A4CC5B@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.37.27.235 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Mar 31 20:18:35 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.01 (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x9.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 129.37.27.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!howland.erols.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!solomon.io.com!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <36FEAFAC.48A4CC5B@the.end.of.the.message>, Craig wrote: > I would like to take a little time and extend my concern over the recent > trend in the ng from a lot of new comers thinking that they NEED to feel > the vibrations in order to be on 'the right path' for a successful > separation. > > It is a known fact, that within this ng, and indeed on reading many > other accounts of OBE travellers, that vibrations are felt by a great > many people. But I think it needs to be stressed that there are also a > great many people who DO NOT feel the vibrations and do not feel they > need to and still have successful separations. > > It alarms me that so many people now feel they are doing something wrong > within their attempts at becoming astral, based merely on the fact that > they cannot get to a vibrational stage. I would suggest, that if we > continue on a path where we are expecting something to happen and never > finding that to be the case, we may be placing ourselves in a pattern > where we can no longer advance onwards or inwards with any success. > > In order to continue, IMO, we must set ourselves in a position of > letting things just take their course, not where we are waiting for > something specific to happen. We need to be able to see without looking, > not search for something that may not be there. > > Keeping in mind that the OBE is something very personal, one soon > realizes that even though alot of us share the same ideals and feelings, > we still remain very individual, the experience is still, essentially, > our very own personal inner journey. Let yourself go, give in to > anything that you feel and don't expect the expected to happen for you. > > All the best > Craig Craig, I couldn't agree more. I too had vibrations and the loud *fingernails on the chalkboard* sound when I had my first few OOBEs, but now I no longer feel vibrations nor hear sounds. What I experience now is a subtle but distinctive *shift* in my consciousness. When this shift occurs, I simply wait until I know that I can roll out. The knowing of when I can roll out is something that has come from practice and from trial and error. I do know that I have missed many opportunities to go OOB due to waiting around for vibrations or sounds to either start or grow stronger. Thanks for this post.. I wish I had seen one like it when I first started! Take care! Clairity -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Does Christianity approve OBE? Date: 02 Apr 1999 23:00:21 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 90 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uk8vu7n6i.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <7cpcf2$gos$1@winter.news.rcn.net> <19990317210534.00742.00000394@ng-fi1.aol.com> <36F6A336.4597D7CC@alaska.net> <36F86045.3034@cwcom.net_NOSPAM_> <36FC82C1.D40484DC@alaska.net> <7dk8ik$eh9@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <36FEA8EC.2BAD1D83@alaska.net> <7dmubv$8o5@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> <37003A52.A38709A@alaska.net> <7dpp18$9db@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> <6uzp4t7lrf.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <370405E3.DCF78742@alaska.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 nwgirr1@alaska.net writes: > > > I now regard it as one > > interpretation of some spirit events. On reason to want an OBE is to > > see the spirit world and then be able to decide whether to believe it. > > This is an interest of mine to ask whether faith comes through a simple > choice to believe, as in 'a leap of faith', or after seeing sufficient > evidence and becoming "convinced." IMHO while an child, it comes from an trusted authorities (such as parents, near family, shool teacher, minister) simply telling you so. But later on, after one has learned that authorities can err like any other human, only those beliefs survive, that either never collide(*) with one experiences of reality or can prove themselves enough to take a few hits without desintegrating (usually modifying themselves to eliminate the contradictions). To this add then the beliefs derived from ones own experiences (science goes into this category) and from people who one regards as trustworthy (for me today parapsychology, NDE and spirits go into this, god (**) not yet). (*) God (the old man) definitely went into the "collide and die" category. (**) allthough the problem here is more that I have yet to settle on what meaning I am going to attribute to the word "god". It is simply used for too many conflicting thing. Some of the definitions I have seen look like crap (old man), some like obviousities (the force that created the universe), some I simply dispute whether they fit the word (both the "creating force" (too banal) and the "universal conciousness" (not all-knowing)). > Here you seem to be taking this on as a fact finding > expedition. LEt us know how you make out? Yes, and I will. > > playing back an mental videotape of the > > experience, without adding ones model-of-world interpretations of > > the meaning of it all, would help a lot to make words more useful > > Thanks that is a very good suggestion. I hope to see more such descriptions here on the NG in the future. > I really am curious, because > While there is abundant help, will you find it if you have too much > doubt to start with? Sure I have more chance in finding something if I search, than if I did nothing. So that sets the course... > > In my case rejecting it (or rather what I had be taught about it) > > A particularly important point to note: you were rejecting what you were > taught, as in men's ideas. Be very careful to not equate men's ideas > with the actual truth about who and what God is. The problem is, that the actual truth is not available to me (at least at the moment). All I have is something which may have been the truth (but could have been delusion), handed down through an chain of teachers who have definitely lost track on the way. So I can either reuse what is definitely corrupted and possible was never the truth, or I can go and look for the truth myself. With the later method I can also make use of the help of others who have made experiences I have not, such as this NG, people who have had NDEs, channelers, parapsychologists (just read McMoneagle) etc. People giving their direct experiences, and so I can estimate who of them to take serious. While the second method will be difficult and may miss target, I think it will be more successfull, even if trying to understand what the others are trying to say is difficult (that was the reason for the mental videotape analogy). -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ 20th century record companies fit the 21st century data highways as good as 19th century stagecoaches fit the 20th century freeways