From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Lines: 16 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:12:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.90.142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp3.clara.net 919195949 195.8.90.142 (Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:12:29 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:12:29 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp3.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi, I was listening to an article on the radio today (Radio 2 over here in the UK) about Lucid Dreams. The lady was called Rita (forgot her second name) and she has wrote a book on the subject. During the conversation she added that OOBE's and Lucid Dreaming are exactly the same experience and that nobody really travels out of their body at all, even though the experience still feels like waking reality, it all happens in the brain. She also said she tried a test once to see if OOBE's took place in the physical world by placing a card on top of her wardrobe wiithout looking, then to have the OOBE and see what the card was. She said she had the OOBE but the card wasn't the same. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether LD's and OOBE's are the same etc. Lee. ###### From: Lucid Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: 16 Feb 1999 20:22:38 PST Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 58 Message-ID: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ts010d09.oak-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!global-news-master Lee W wrote: > Hi, > I was listening to an article on the radio today (Radio 2 over here in the > UK) about Lucid Dreams. The lady was called Rita (forgot her second name) > and she has wrote a book on the subject. During the conversation she added > that OOBE's and Lucid Dreaming are exactly the same experience and that > nobody really travels out of their body at all, even though the experience > still feels like waking reality, it all happens in the brain. She also said > she tried a test once to see if OOBE's took place in the physical world by > placing a card on top of her wardrobe wiithout looking, then to have the > OOBE and see what the card was. She said she had the OOBE but the card > wasn't the same. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether LD's and OOBE's > are the same etc. > > Lee. Lee, I tried the same experience that she had, and got the same result. So that led me to believe that her experience was sound. But don't jump to conclusion...just because she can't see the same thing in the physical world when she oobed doesn't meant that it's all in her brain. Maybe she shouldn't jump to this conclusions so fast and tried first to experiment oobe with a partner instead. Yes, I tried the card experience in the physical world, and yes, it never turn out to be the same card, most of the time it was just a mumble jumble drawings on the card, sometime it's not even there. But I also tried this experiment with a partner. We arrange to oobe and meet together a my apartment at the same time and tried to look at the card, and guess what, one time the card wasn't there, but there was a big tunnel on the east side of my apartment which was not in the physical. We both went through the tunnel and found a beautiful fountain. I called her the next morning, without any word from me she started to describe the tunnel and the fountain that we went to down to the minute details. Now you tell me, if it's all in "my" brain, then how is this possible, did she somehow got in my brain also? I wish that people would stop thinking that when you go oobe, you would actually end up in the physical world...the things it that it's not( according to my own experiences). I don't know where it is but from my experience, it's not all in the brain either. I think that these people would stop jumping into these conclusions and take the time instead to do further experimenting before coming on radio shows and writing books about subject that need further experimentation. Further more from what I gather from your post, you said that Rita tried the test "once"...ONE time, and she came up with a conclusion. Don't you need to experiment at least more that once to jump into any kind of conclusion? I doubted that you can take this as "fact". Don't believe all you read or heard, try these things out for yourself and arrive at your own conclusions. OOBE/LD is something I believe that "Everybody" can do, it just take some time and effort. So there shouldn't be any reason to accept anyone's word for it unless you wanted to :-) One other thing is that I don't think that Rita have a real oobe yet, with a clear oobe, you will never doubt that it's the same as LD. The tremendous vibrations, and the ripping sense of separation from the physical body, it's just too much to leave any doubt. lucid ###### Message-ID: <36CA3E11.6F051C7D@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 67 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:57:05 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.194 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 919223846 208.203.136.194 (Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:57:26 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 20:57:26 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Craig, Wasn't it you awhile back that posted some differences between LDs and OBEs? If you can dig that up I think it would be a cool thing to see posted again. I thought it was very accurate. Ken Craig wrote: > > Lee W wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I was listening to an article on the radio today (Radio 2 over here in the > > UK) about Lucid Dreams. The lady was called Rita (forgot her second name) > > and she has wrote a book on the subject. During the conversation she added > > that OOBE's and Lucid Dreaming are exactly the same experience and that > > nobody really travels out of their body at all, even though the experience > > still feels like waking reality, it all happens in the brain. She also said > > she tried a test once to see if OOBE's took place in the physical world by > > placing a card on top of her wardrobe wiithout looking, then to have the > > OOBE and see what the card was. She said she had the OOBE but the card > > wasn't the same. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether LD's and OOBE's > > are the same etc. > > > > Lee. > > Hi Lee. > > Hmmmm, this question again eh. And the old card on top of the wardrobe > trick. ;-) Really, IMO, in a LD you know you are dreaming, in an OBE you > know you are not. :-) Really. I'm not even going to get into the ol' > card on the wardrobe thingy. ;-) I'll suggest just one thing, if someone > tells you OBE's only take place on the physical, or that OBE's don't > take place on the physical, I would say they are pretty narrow minded. > > All the best > Craig > -- > The sure way to make a thing impossible- > -is to think it so. --- Franklin > > To respond, delete _nospam_ > scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au > -- > > OBE Explanation, Guides and FAQ: > http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe.html > > Robert Bruce Treatise > http://www.tower.net.au/~rsb/ > > Astral Projection Homepage > http://www.tanega.com/astral/astral.html > > Mind Travel Plus Homepage > http://www.execpc.com/~mholmes/ > > alt.out-of-body Homepage > http://www.xsite.ltd.uk/astral/noframes/index.html > > Mind Travellers Homepage > http://www.xsite.ltd.uk/astral/noframes/projects.html > > NewsGroup Sign in List > http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/1630/signin.html > -- ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Lines: 12 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:28:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.84.95 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp3.clara.net 919211312 195.8.84.95 (Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:28:32 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 00:28:32 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp3.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi, I agree with what you say, and also that some people (usually scientists, doctors ;) ) are usually always narrow-minded about such things like OOBE's (they could be corect you never know) and they wont accept the possibility that OOBE's could take place on a physical level as well as an astral level. I saw somewhere on the Internet an article which tries to tell difference between OOBE's and LD's by differentiating their features so they can't be the same experience. Lee. ###### Message-ID: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 08:55:30 +1100 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.18 X-Trace: 17 Feb 1999 10:46:51 +1000, 203.18.28.18 Lines: 60 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in2.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.18 Lee W wrote: > > Hi, > I was listening to an article on the radio today (Radio 2 over here in the > UK) about Lucid Dreams. The lady was called Rita (forgot her second name) > and she has wrote a book on the subject. During the conversation she added > that OOBE's and Lucid Dreaming are exactly the same experience and that > nobody really travels out of their body at all, even though the experience > still feels like waking reality, it all happens in the brain. She also said > she tried a test once to see if OOBE's took place in the physical world by > placing a card on top of her wardrobe wiithout looking, then to have the > OOBE and see what the card was. She said she had the OOBE but the card > wasn't the same. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether LD's and OOBE's > are the same etc. > > Lee. Hi Lee. Hmmmm, this question again eh. And the old card on top of the wardrobe trick. ;-) Really, IMO, in a LD you know you are dreaming, in an OBE you know you are not. :-) Really. I'm not even going to get into the ol' card on the wardrobe thingy. ;-) I'll suggest just one thing, if someone tells you OBE's only take place on the physical, or that OBE's don't take place on the physical, I would say they are pretty narrow minded. All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- OBE Explanation, Guides and FAQ: http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe.html Robert Bruce Treatise http://www.tower.net.au/~rsb/ Astral Projection Homepage http://www.tanega.com/astral/astral.html Mind Travel Plus Homepage http://www.execpc.com/~mholmes/ alt.out-of-body Homepage http://www.xsite.ltd.uk/astral/noframes/index.html Mind Travellers Homepage http://www.xsite.ltd.uk/astral/noframes/projects.html NewsGroup Sign in List http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/1630/signin.html -- ###### Message-ID: <36CBA76E.461E8751@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> <36CA3E11.6F051C7D@privatei.com> <36CB2E95.F6B5B3F@the.end.of.the.message> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 3 Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:38:54 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.196 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 919316359 208.203.136.196 (Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:39:19 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 22:39:19 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!nntp.abs.net!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail I think you're right. It may have been Gunnar. Ken ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Lines: 14 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: <_3Iy2.10961$cQ5.5340@nnrp2.clara.net> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:15:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.84.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp2.clara.net 919293306 195.8.84.151 (Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:15:06 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:15:06 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.ecrc.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp2.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi Lucid, Thanks for your excellent reply. I agree with everything you say and that too many people dont experiment enough before coming to conclusions (then they write a book hehe). Also, while I'm here I think I had a cool LD last night (my 4th in the last six months since I started to read this newsgroup), where I was flying with some friends, I could feel the wind (it was brilliant) and we arrived at a cricket ground, I think it may of been Australia; then I went back into a normal dream. If thats how good LD's can be I cant wait for my first OOBE. Thanks, Lee. ###### Message-ID: <36CB2E95.F6B5B3F@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:03:17 +1100 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> <36CA3E11.6F051C7D@privatei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.14 X-Trace: 18 Feb 1999 08:06:27 +1000, 203.18.28.14 Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.ecrc.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in2.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.14 Hi Ken. > > Wasn't it you awhile back that posted some differences between LDs and > OBEs? If you can dig that up I think it would be a cool thing to see > posted again. I thought it was very accurate. Hmmm, there was a few things I said a while ago about what I considered to be the differences between LD's and OBE's, but I really think you may have thought it was I, by mistake. Maybe you are thinking of Bart, he also wrote a little about the differences, or Wolfy. I dunno, I searched my archived posts and couldn't really find anything that said much more than what I have already stated. "(OBE)I am fully aware that I am not dreaming. That is different to being fully aware that you are dreaming." "A LD is where you become conscious than you are dreaming, while you are dreaming. An OBE is where your physical body rests while you remain conscious and separate all thought from the physical." Those are a couple I did find, but nothing spectacular, or nothing new. I'm sure you have me confused with someone else. :-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: "Lone Wolf" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:07:46 +1000 Organization: Customer of OzEmail/Access One Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 35 Message-ID: <7ag9kg$jcm$1@news.mel.aone.net.au> References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> <36CA3E11.6F051C7D@privatei.com> <36CB2E95.F6B5B3F@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: d205-1.cpe.townsville.aone.net.au X-Trace: news.mel.aone.net.au 919316944 19862 203.61.32.205 (18 Feb 1999 05:49:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Feb 1999 05:49:04 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.new-york.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!in1.uu.net!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!not-for-mail Craig wrote in message <36CB2E95.F6B5B3F@the.end.of.the.message>... >Maybe you are thinking of Bart, he >also wrote a little about the differences, or Wolfy. I dunno, I searched >my archived posts and couldn't really find anything that said much more >than what I have already stated. I did say something.... But I'm stuffed as to what I said. Bart said the following: 2. A lucid dream is a dream in which you know you are dreaming. The distinguishing factor of a lucid dream below the others is that one tends to become involved with the scenery. 3. Astral Projection is a state of consciousness that is one step beyond lucid dreaming in that the individual having such an experience is beyond the play of thoughtforms common to Lucid dreams - yet, still subject to thoughtforms generated by the traveler as a tool. Guides are usually methere. 4. OBE is a state of consciousness where one has no loss of consciousness from the awakened state and the altered state - resulting in a seperation leading to the experience of shifting directly into the immediate surroundings associated with the practitioner. OBE often shifts to AP and LD due to sex and other focuses that draw one away from the exceptional level of consciousness that one has reached. END BART_____________ Bart, I'm very sorry if I have oversteped my bounds by posting this. But I had some spare time so I looked it up in Deja news. From Wolfy ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:45:33 +0100 Organization: Telenordia Lines: 29 Message-ID: <36CC51BD.9552D44D@algonet.se> References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> <36CA3E11.6F051C7D@privatei.com> <36CB2E95.F6B5B3F@the.end.of.the.message> <36CBA76E.461E8751@privatei.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du119-26.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: cubacola.tninet.se 919359893 18747 195.100.26.119 (18 Feb 1999 17:44:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Feb 1999 17:44:53 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: sv,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!isdnet!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail The Original Ken wrote: > > I think you're right. It may have been Gunnar. > > Ken Right you are Ken. Here it is: Characteristic Dreams OBEs ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Starting location Anywhere Usually in bedroom Start Abrupt Consciously separates from body Lucidity Low (varies) Crystal clear State of mind Often confused Confident and curious Memory of waking life Faint Excellent Remembrance afterward Weak Varies (Fair-Excellent) Consciousness Many breaks No breaks Scenario Powerful None Environment Subjective Fairly objective Paranormal abilities Rare Powerful (that is: flight, passing thru solid objects etc.) See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:48:47 -0800 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 36 Message-ID: <7aijg8$lg4$2@remarQ.com> References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> <36d26444.1577698@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.212.205.54 X-Trace: 919392584 I0G4.QBCECD36CFD4C usenet87.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail moon-shine@earthling.net wrote in message <36d26444.1577698@news.demon.co.uk>... >i'm sorry, but anyone who says lucid stuff is the same as obe hasnt >had obe, i wish i had heard that woman on radio 2. i was thrown out of >my body a lot when i was really little and dreaded vibrations ever >since. now i want to experiment more i only seem to be able to have >lucid dreams of obes and they are definitely dreams Moon-shine They definitely are different. If you have a OOB start from the waking state it really feels different from one that starts from a lucid dream. Even if you are lucid in your dream, you are not fully conscious. On a certain level I think it is easier to accept this type of experience because it is easier to take it if you feel it can be a dream. The other kind. . . You know you are awake. There is no doubt. This kind is a direct assault on what you believe reality is. This is why this is so scary until you get convinced you will be OK. Your lucid dreams of OOBE might help you get this under control. RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ Join the search for Intelligent Life in the Universe at home http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com ###### From: moon-shine@earthling.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 19:09:54 GMT Message-ID: <36d26444.1577698@news.demon.co.uk> References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: mosaic.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mosaic.demon.co.uk:194.222.69.238 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 919361364 nnrp-01:15292 NO-IDENT mosaic.demon.co.uk:194.222.69.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mosaic.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail i'm sorry, but anyone who says lucid stuff is the same as obe hasnt had obe, i wish i had heard that woman on radio 2. i was thrown out of my body a lot when i was really little and dreaded vibrations ever since. now i want to experiment more i only seem to be able to have lucid dreams of obes and they are definitely dreams... i also believe you can see the infamous wardrobe card, even if you don't see it as you would see it were you awake... i just havent quite cracked it yet... i guess i dont get to spend enough time in bed. ###### Message-ID: <36CCDA39.605B18AB@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: <36C9E952.F956B0EE@the.end.of.the.message> <36CA3E11.6F051C7D@privatei.com> <36CB2E95.F6B5B3F@the.end.of.the.message> <36CBA76E.461E8751@privatei.com> <36CC51BD.9552D44D@algonet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:27:53 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.196 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 919394897 208.203.136.196 (Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:28:17 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:28:17 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Cool!!!! Thanks Gunnar. Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > The Original Ken wrote: > > > > I think you're right. It may have been Gunnar. > > > > Ken > > Right you are Ken. > > Here it is: > > Characteristic Dreams OBEs > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Starting location Anywhere Usually in bedroom > Start Abrupt Consciously separates from body > Lucidity Low (varies) Crystal clear > State of mind Often confused Confident and curious > Memory of waking life Faint Excellent > Remembrance afterward Weak Varies (Fair-Excellent) > Consciousness Many breaks No breaks > Scenario Powerful None > Environment Subjective Fairly objective > Paranormal abilities Rare Powerful > (that is: flight, passing thru solid objects etc.) > > See you out there... > > /Gunnar ###### Message-ID: <36CCDC1D.A61DF0BE@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:35:57 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.196 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 919395380 208.203.136.196 (Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:36:20 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:36:20 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail I *love* Susan Blackmore. Don't know why. Just one of those silly crushes I guess. Her book "Beyond the Body" is fabulous. I've read it 3 times now and still get an OBE everytime I pick it up. (I didn't really mean that the way it sounded ;-D) She may have said a "priviledged peak into our brains" but I would be more inclined to say a priviledged peak into our mind, which is an entirely different thing. Nothing like a good disagreement to keep the love alive eh? Oh and peeking into the mind *is* an OBE since the mind does not reside in the brain. Ken Lee W wrote: > > Hi, > I have seen the researcher Susan Blackmore mentioned a few times and have > heard her say that OOBE's are a privilidged peek into our brains but nothing > more (not out of body at all). What does anyone think about her research. > > Lee. ###### From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:51:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.90.8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp2.clara.net 919381912 195.8.90.8 (Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:51:52 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:51:52 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp2.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi, I have seen the researcher Susan Blackmore mentioned a few times and have heard her say that OOBE's are a privilidged peek into our brains but nothing more (not out of body at all). What does anyone think about her research. Lee. ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: 19 Feb 1999 01:41:28 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 20 Message-ID: <01be5bc1$442d7c80$cae555c6@default> References: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.85.229.202 X-Trace: 919388488 KESTV.NODE5CAC655C usenet77.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail Lee W wrote in article ... > Hi, > I have seen the researcher Susan Blackmore mentioned a few times and have > heard her say that OOBE's are a privilidged peek into our brains but nothing > more (not out of body at all). What does anyone think about her research. > > Lee. I wouldn't know, except it's hard to explain instances of shared dreams and OOBE's, especially if one person is awake, another asleep or supposedly miles away. If it's a "peek into our brains" then it might be a "peek" into a share brain, like the oversoul concept I prefer. Claire ###### Message-ID: <36CD609E.53A9@SYR.EDU> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:01:39 +0000 From: trickster <@SYR.EDU> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? References: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> <36CCDC1D.A61DF0BE@privatei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: syru82-245.syr.edu X-Trace: 19 Feb 1999 11:09:02 -0500, syru82-245.syr.edu Lines: 5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.syr.edu!syru82-245.syr.edu Is this the same Susan Blackmore who is an avowed sceptic? I've seen someone with that name on TV doing the sceptical thing. The woman I saw is a pyschologist. Once I saw her with a conservative bob-like hairstyle. And then sometime later I see her with spiked green and pink hair! ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 22:58:50 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 21 Message-ID: <36d3ea0a.6424728@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <36CA3FAB.F79B224@hotmail.com> <36CCDC1D.A61DF0BE@privatei.com> <36CD609E.53A9@SYR.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: bilby16.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:01:39 +0000, trickster <@SYR.EDU> wrote: >Is this the same Susan Blackmore who is an avowed sceptic? I've seen >someone with that name on TV doing the sceptical thing. < snip > I thought she was supposed to be a debunker. :-) In theory a skeptic can change his/her mind. Debunkers don't generally do that. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: ageofself@aol.com (AgeofSelf) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OOBE's and Lucid Dreams are the same? Lines: 42 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Feb 1999 16:17:55 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: Message-ID: <19990223111755.07020.00000301@ng-fy1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >Hi, >I was listening to an article on the radio today (Radio 2 over here in the >UK) about Lucid Dreams. The lady was called Rita (forgot her second name) >and she has wrote a book on the subject. During the conversation she added >that OOBE's and Lucid Dreaming are exactly the same experience and that >nobody really travels out of their body at all, even though the experience >still feels like waking reality, it all happens in the brain. She also said >she tried a test once to see if OOBE's took place in the physical world by >placing a card on top of her wardrobe wiithout looking, then to have the >OOBE and see what the card was. She said she had the OOBE but the card >wasn't the same. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether LD's and OOBE's >are the same etc. > > Lee. > Too bad you lost this ladie's name...any way, after 20+ years of research and over 5 years of practical experience, and just lately understanding the meaning of Lucid dreams, I can truthfully say, that Lucid Dreams and OOBE's are DEFINITELY not the same, in the strictest sense. Unfortunately, to complicate things, there are OOBE's that are Lucid dreams (!!)...HOWEVER, this state of being is only the tip of the iceberg(!); it is the stepping stone of the more complete OOBE...once Lucid dreaming is understood by the practioner, the Lucid Dream state can be bypassed directly into an OOBE state. This simply means that 'more' of the consciousness is brought along for the ride...the trick is to pull it back when you are done so you will remember the dream (or OOBE). At any rate, there are more states of being outside of the full OOBE state...you can 'astral project' out of the OOBE state to enter more defined planes of existence...I am leaning to believe that planetary gravitation effects this process, and that these events will increase in frequency on an approximate 11-12 year cycle that does not coincide with the sunspot cycle...we have til the end of the year 2000 to gain knowledge I feel. we then must wait 11-12 more years...all of this is subjective, even leaving the Physical; but tests are ongoing... www.angelfire.com/de/greatexpedition