Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:12:01 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: That Koos person.... Message-ID: Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com, stupid people cant email me like that ;-) X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: -uI=^t'c79&*}GsO[+#~ob*f:li95-4'/u29o.:JI*gMJCC~dA]P^wo]xmY1h nvj<6x$%`G&HuD?C:xQ9'2|zf)!/q2wKh=bSx%(Lk<+f{9/wE,\#'ZSDA.cR5Z(ps#i> (*,fKx'[pl[oGoYk+1VYTnL:s_ZN'J|k(V#_Iq$2Yd!F#:&!QiYHle{}q<7?9 Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19990123070037.11834.00000607@ngol08.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article , asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) writes: >He is just some insane guy with agendas, as far as I am concerned L B R H >Rubhard, and Mrs Reekh and Mr Koos and Frutta and I dont know who else are >all evil. So there. I think the point which is commonly overlooked here, is that Koos is trying to SELL LRH's material via "negative publicity." It works like this: If you use the newsgroup to try to SELL material, you get canned for spamming. If you use the newsgroup to CRITICISE someone's material, it's called "free speech." Here's the catch: Every sales marketer knows that even bad publicity IS publicity. People who are told "this is BAD, EVIL STUFF" will FLOCK to go buy it and read it, just to see what all the hub-bub is about. Hence, by saying that LRH is evil and by explicitly spelling out all his views in order to do this, KOOKS is SPAMMING the newsgroups and getting away with it! IF Koos TRULY wanted people to STOP buying LRH's material, then Koos would simply SHUT THE F_CK UP! No comments = no publicity = no sales. See? Dick Silk, The Computer Tutor www.citysearch.com/nas/computertutor SilkDick@aol.com 615-895-7608 (my spam block = putrtutr) ###### Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:43:10 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Message-ID: References: <19990123070037.11834.00000607@ngol08.aol.com> Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com, stupid people cant email me like that ;-) X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: -uI=^t'c79&*}GsO[+#~ob*f:li95-4'/u29o.:JI*gMJCC~dA]P^wo]xmY1h nvj<6x$%`G&HuD?C:xQ9'2|zf)!/q2wKh=bSx%(Lk<+f{9/wE,\#'ZSDA.cR5Z(ps#i> (*,fKx'[pl[oGoYk+1VYTnL:s_ZN'J|k(V#_Iq$2Yd!F#:&!QiYHle{}q<7?9Hence, by saying that LRH is evil and by >explicitly spelling out all his views in order to do this, KOOKS is SPAMMING >the newsgroups and getting away with it! He is spamming. People should come to information, not have it forced on them. of course i can appreciate having it "given" to me. but really his posting to loads of newsgroups is a bit too much. alt.love, alt.mindcontrol, alt.out-of-body, etc etc spammer. For a start he has to take out alt.love, I mean everything might be to do with love. even "love for computer gaming" could be posted there, but there are more applicable groups than the mis-standardised choice of meaning-connections that he makes in his choice of groups to post to. -- For all the things you tried to make us forget, and for all the things you did to me to stop me from getting where I am now. Truth is a monster. -- http://falcon.nji.com/~vera interesting site by someone else. To email me work out the opposite of chaos. ICQ: 26027485 ###### From: silkdick@aol.computrtutr (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jan 1999 16:30:49 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article , asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) writes: >>Hence, by saying that LRH is evil and by >>explicitly spelling out all his views in order to do this, KOOKS is SPAMMING >>the newsgroups and getting away with it! > >He is spamming. People should come to information, not have it forced on >them. of course i can appreciate having it "given" to me. but really his >posting to loads of newsgroups is a bit too much. alt.love, >alt.mindcontrol, alt.out-of-body, etc etc I wasn't aware of the excessive crossposting. Yes, he certainly qualifies as a spammer. There's a place in usenet to report this guy to in order to have his access taken away, but I'm not sure where it is... Dick Silk, The Computer Tutor www.citysearch.com/nas/computertutor SilkDick@aol.com 615-895-7608 (my spam block = putrtutr) ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Date: 23 Jan 1999 21:10:48 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 157 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: References: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 silkdick@aol.computrtutr (Silk Dick) writes: > > In article , > asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) writes: > > >>Hence, by saying that LRH is evil and by > >>explicitly spelling out all his views in order to do this, KOOKS is SPAMMING > >>the newsgroups and getting away with it! To be called spamming there is no need for Koos to be either helping or harming Scientology. Posts become spam as soon as they are: - off topic without having drifted from an on topic post - sent to many unrelated group (and therefore off topic in many) - repetitively the same post (or variations of the same) Generally spam is any posting _behaviour_ that (if engaged in by enough people) drowns out the on topic posting the readers come to the group for. Note that spam is named after an Monthy Pytons sketch in which a group of Vikings repedetly drowns out the conversations of other people with loud chanting of "spam, spam, spam, ..." and hammering spoons on the table. > >He is spamming. People should come to information, not have it forced on > >them. That is why there exist multiple news groups with thematic names such as alt.out-of-body. > >of course i can appreciate having it "given" to me. But even then, if you want to discuss pro/contra Scientology the right place would be alt.scientology. It has no being in an other group, as anyone interested can add that group to their list. > > but really his > >posting to loads of newsgroups is a bit too much. alt.love, > >alt.mindcontrol, alt.out-of-body, etc etc > > I wasn't aware of the excessive crossposting. The last Koos post I still got (I have killfiled him since over an 1/2 year) went to 18 groups. > There's a place in usenet to report this guy to in order to have his > access taken away, but I'm not sure where it is... You don't know where it is, because it is nowhere. This place simply does not exist. It is a myth. Usenet has no central authority. Neither the Web, nor the Internet as an whole. The nearest thing you can do to get an spammer off is to complain to the operator of the news server which lets Kooses posts in to the net. If they get enough complaints they may block his access. To find that operator you must analyse the headers of his posts. As I have no Koos posts present (killfile prevents downloading them) I will uses Silks post to demonstrate the technique. 1. Look for an line like this one (most newer servers provide them): NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com That is the "post office stamp" of the first news server to get Silks post on its way to me. If that line is missing (old server) try this: 1.a. Look for the Path: line: Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail This one shows the entire path Silks post took until my copy arrived here. chonsp.franklin.ch is my local news server, pfaff.ethz.ch is where I fetch from, news-zh.switch.ch where they fetch from, and so on. At the other end: not-for-mail means there was not an local user that made this post (normal for posts sent from an PC newsreader, audrey01.news.aol.com was the first news server, portc01.blue.aol.com the second. As audrey01.news.aol.com and ladder01.news.aol.com differ but are similar I would assume them to be 2 names for the same machine (both AOL newsservers). 2. check if the first news server belongs to the culprint, as say with my posts: Path: ...!chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet That is the end of the path for posts from me. As you can see the news server chonsp.franklin.ch most likely belongs to me. If you see this then complaining to the server owner will fail, instead complain to the owner of the next server (second server) on the Path list, which in my case I assume will be pfaff.ethz.ch (check the Path: of this post to see how it grew on the way to you). IIRC Koos also uses his own first news server. So you will have to do this. 3. See if the server has an official complaint address, anything such as: X-Abuse: xxx@domain or X-Admin: news@aol.com If so, that is where the complaints belong to go. Else: 3a. Extract the Domain from the news server name: For Silk that is aol.com, for me franklin.ch. This one can be a bit tricky, generally an organisational name (aol) belongs in, an hostname (audrey01) belongs deleted. Subdepartments (news) I delete, some others leave them in. 3b. After doing this add postmaster@ to it: postmaster@domain-from-3a, note that some large organisations also have an abuse@domain address. So you may get an "send it there" email back (AOL is actually one of these). 4. Then send your complaint written as follows: - Note that postmsters are often overworked, so be brief. - Put "Usenet Spam" in the Subject, so it can be fastly sent to the News Admin for dealing with. - Include the _full_ header of the spam so they can see it is their problem. - Include enough of the message for the spamminess to be obvious, but limit the size if it was an large spam. If your complaints are good enough (perhaps together with others also complaining) the offender will be barred from access. He may then reappear through an other news server, complain there and so drive up the spammers costs. He may get the point after a while. Neil Franklin, postmaster@arch.ethz.ch in professional life -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Programming: when you stop hammering around on the computer as if it were a piece of dumb matter and instead tell it what to do for you ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:14:36 -0800 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 49 Message-ID: <78ddsm$bp8$1@remarQ.com> References: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.212.205.131 X-Trace: 917125846 I0G4.QBCECD83CFD4C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail It has been forever since I have even see a posting from this person. And people still talk about him. . Maybe I should up-date my filter to include if the name is in the subject. :-) -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ Join the search for Intelligent Life in the Universe at home http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com Silk Dick wrote in message <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com>... > >In article , >asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) writes: > >>>Hence, by saying that LRH is evil and by >>>explicitly spelling out all his views in order to do this, KOOKS is SPAMMING >>>the newsgroups and getting away with it! >> >>He is spamming. People should come to information, not have it forced on >>them. of course i can appreciate having it "given" to me. but really his >>posting to loads of newsgroups is a bit too much. alt.love, >>alt.mindcontrol, alt.out-of-body, etc etc > >I wasn't aware of the excessive crossposting. Yes, he certainly qualifies as a >spammer. There's a place in usenet to report this guy to in order to have his >access taken away, but I'm not sure where it is... > > > >Dick Silk, >The Computer Tutor >www.citysearch.com/nas/computertutor >SilkDick@aol.com >615-895-7608 (my spam block = putrtutr) ###### Message-ID: <36AA1CCF.A210585@netparadise.no> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 19:02:39 +0000 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... References: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o204p55.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o204p55.telia.com Lines: 23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!tfl450.tfl.hk-r.se!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t1o204p55.telia.com Silk Dick wrote: > I wasn't aware of the excessive crossposting. Yes, he certainly qualifies as a > spammer. There's a place in usenet to report this guy to in order to have his > access taken away, but I'm not sure where it is... > This is the biggest cross poster ever.... For those who want to pay him a visit, here is his address: Art Organisation Trenite House Gaiganz, 91090 DE Found with www.alexa.com Think he lives in Germany.... Bye, Lars ###### From: silkdick@aol.computrtutr (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jan 1999 20:36:18 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19990123153618.19505.00000801@ngol01.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail thanks for the data, Neil... :-) hope someone who detests Koos enough will follow thru with it. I'm not here enough anymore to bother... Dick Silk, The Computer Tutor www.citysearch.com/nas/computertutor SilkDick@aol.com 615-895-7608 (my spam block = putrtutr) ###### Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:09:17 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Message-ID: References: <19990123153618.19505.00000801@ngol01.aol.com> Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com, stupid people cant email me like that ;-) X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: -uI=^t'c79&*}GsO[+#~ob*f:li95-4'/u29o.:JI*gMJCC~dA]P^wo]xmY1h nvj<6x$%`G&HuD?C:xQ9'2|zf)!/q2wKh=bSx%(Lk<+f{9/wE,\#'ZSDA.cR5Z(ps#i> (*,fKx'[pl[oGoYk+1VYTnL:s_ZN'J|k(V#_Iq$2Yd!F#:&!QiYHle{}q<7?9thanks for the data, Neil... :-) >hope someone who detests Koos enough will follow thru with it. >I'm not here enough anymore to bother... WEll I think going over the top with complaining aggression wasnt QUITE what I had in mind. Still..... Perhaps he could just use more judicion in his choice of groups. After all the internet belongs to no one, he doesnt quite "drown out" others. Just crossposts too much. And as for the content it sucks. But then thats not a crime in internet terms. I just wanted people to know that it doesnt make sense, and also the reason why it doesnt make sense. s ###### From: "Lone Wolf" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:21:14 +1000 Organization: Customer of OzEmail/Access One Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia Lines: 15 Message-ID: <78dvpt$nam$1@news.mel.aone.net.au> References: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> <78ddsm$bp8$1@remarQ.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d107-1.cpe.ingham.aone.net.au X-Trace: news.mel.aone.net.au 917144189 23894 203.61.34.107 (24 Jan 1999 02:16:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 1999 02:16:29 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!not-for-mail Richard wrote in message <78ddsm$bp8$1@remarQ.com>... >It has been forever since I have even see a posting from this person. And >people still talk about him. . Maybe I should up-date my filter to include >if the name is in the subject. :-) I have never received a post from this Koos person, not that I'm complaining. The only time I hear of him is from people complaining about him. And I never killfile anyone. From Wolfy ###### Message-ID: <36AB16DF.E900DDD5@netparadise.no> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 12:49:35 +0000 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... References: <19990123153618.19505.00000801@ngol01.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o204p17.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o204p17.telia.com Lines: 26 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t1o204p17.telia.com Silk Dick wrote: > thanks for the data, Neil... :-) > hope someone who detests Koos enough will follow thru with it. > I'm not here enough anymore to bother... I found another address for this guy: easynet DV GmbH Naegelsbachstr. 26 D-91052 Erlangen Germany Phone: +49 9131 8967 0 (And even a phone number...) But I think complaining to this address should work...: Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net If many enough complain, maybe I will drop a line as well... Good day, Lars ###### Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:02:29 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Message-ID: References: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> <36AA1CCF.A210585@netparadise.no> Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: -uI=^t'c79&*}GsO[+#~ob*f:li95-4'/u29o.:JI*gMJCC~dA]P^wo]xmY1h nvj<6x$%`G&HuD?C:xQ9'2|zf)!/q2wKh=bSx%(Lk<+f{9/wE,\#'ZSDA.cR5Z(ps#i> (*,fKx'[pl[oGoYk+1VYTnL:s_ZN'J|k(V#_Iq$2Yd!F#:&!QiYHle{}q<7?9 wrote: >Silk Dick wrote: > >> I wasn't aware of the excessive crossposting. Yes, he certainly qualifies as a >> spammer. There's a place in usenet to report this guy to in order to have his >> access taken away, but I'm not sure where it is... >> > >This is the biggest cross poster ever.... > >For those who want to pay him a visit, here is his address: > >Art Organisation >Trenite House >Gaiganz, 91090 >DE > >Found with www.alexa.com > >Think he lives in Germany.... I think that is over the top. I only wanted to "bring the message" thats all. Do what you like its nothing to do with me. I just wanted to say he was probably as bad as his grutta and greya and he cross posts too much. Give someone a chance before you start taking action will you? Well its nothing to do with me whatever you say anymore. -- For all the things you tried to make us forget, and for all the things you did to me to stop me from getting where I am now. Truth is a monster. -- http://falcon.nji.com/~vera interesting site by someone else. Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ: 26027485 ###### Message-ID: <36AB35E8.8D26D5AA@netparadise.no> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:02:01 +0000 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... References: <19990123113049.11240.00000707@ngol06.aol.com> <36AA1CCF.A210585@netparadise.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p22.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p22.telia.com Lines: 32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t2o204p22.telia.com Lan wrote: > I think that is over the top. I only wanted to "bring the message" thats > all. Do what you like its nothing to do with me. I just wanted to say he > was probably as bad as his grutta and greya and he cross posts too much. > Give someone a chance before you start taking action will you? > > Well its nothing to do with me whatever you say anymore. Just want you to know that this is the worst kind of spammer you can get. (Though he could maybe be posting a bit more frequently...) Anyway, he cross posts to about 18 newsgroups, his posts are huge, taking up a lot of bandwidth.... The layout is terrible and virtually nobody reads his posts.... Just think I have read one of all the posts he have been posting during the last few years, and was something about an E-meter.... But I just speed-readed it and couldn't find much interesting... And he is using an anonymous mail2news poster.... Reasoning with this guy is hopeless.... But I don't care much, I guess I spent more time on this thread than the seconds I have used to skip his posts... Goodby, Lars ###### Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 19:37:28 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: That Koos person.... Message-ID: References: <19990123153618.19505.00000801@ngol01.aol.com> <36AB16DF.E900DDD5@netparadise.no> Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 X-Face: -uI=^t'c79&*}GsO[+#~ob*f:li95-4'/u29o.:JI*gMJCC~dA]P^wo]xmY1h nvj<6x$%`G&HuD?C:xQ9'2|zf)!/q2wKh=bSx%(Lk<+f{9/wE,\#'ZSDA.cR5Z(ps#i> (*,fKx'[pl[oGoYk+1VYTnL:s_ZN'J|k(V#_Iq$2Yd!F#:&!QiYHle{}q<7?9 wrote: >Silk Dick wrote: > >> thanks for the data, Neil... :-) >> hope someone who detests Koos enough will follow thru with it. >> I'm not here enough anymore to bother... > >I found another address for this guy: > >easynet DV GmbH >Naegelsbachstr. 26 >D-91052 Erlangen >Germany >Phone: +49 9131 8967 0 > >(And even a phone number...) > > >But I think complaining to this address should work...: >Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net > > >If many enough complain, maybe I will drop a line as well... Couldnt you try reasoning with him first??? ok he might be evil but I'd rather see him try to be more agreeable from his own accord anyway. he's only annoying people really, nothing too bad. Sometimes I really worry about the kind of people that are around. And perhaps I should be more careful with what I say considering the kind of people around. -- For all the things you tried to make us forget, and for all the things you did to me to stop me from getting where I am now. Truth is a monster. -- http://falcon.nji.com/~vera interesting site by someone else. Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ: 26027485