From: "Lee W" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Time Flow While Dreaming Lines: 14 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.90.184 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clara.net X-Trace: nnrp2.clara.net 916184018 195.8.90.184 (Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:38 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 23:33:38 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp2.clara.net!not-for-mail Hi Astral Travellers, Does time flow differently while dreaming? The reason I ask is that after I woke up this morning I dozed off again for about 1/2 an hour and I must of had about 4 long dreams which felt as though they had lasted for over an hour. When I woke up I was surprised that only about 30 minutes had passed. Also for the first time ever two days ago I think I had my first 2 Lucid Dreams. In one I deliberately looked in a mirror and found that I looked exactly the same as in real-life. I had expected to at least look like a sex symbol. :) Hopefully my first Dream Induced OOBE wont be long off. Lee. ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming Date: 13 Jan 1999 01:12:49 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 30 Message-ID: <01be3eaa$93dc3fc0$d5e555c6@default> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.85.229.213 X-Trace: 916189969 KESTV.NODE5D5C655C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.corridex.com!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail Lee W wrote in article ... > Hi Astral Travellers, > > Does time flow differently while dreaming? The reason I ask is that after I > woke up this morning I dozed off again for about 1/2 an hour and I must of > had about 4 long dreams which felt as though they had lasted for over an > hour. When I woke up I was surprised that only about 30 minutes had passed. > Also for the first time ever two days ago I think I had my first 2 Lucid > Dreams. In one I deliberately looked in a mirror and found that I looked > exactly the same as in real-life. I had expected to at least look like a > sex symbol. :) Hopefully my first Dream Induced OOBE wont be long off. > > Lee. Stephen Laberge did research that indicated dream time was the same as real time. However, I know what you mean about a dream taking up more time than in real life. I think his research focused on REM sleep when dreams are being processed whereas I believe, I'm not too certain this is true, that out-of-body experiences happen either in REM or a different state like theta or something. I'm not a sleep researcher so I wouldn't know. But, so far there's no scientific evidence that dreams can take longer than real life time, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. Claire ###### From: eh671@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael McCord) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming Date: 13 Jan 1999 05:28:57 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 15 Message-ID: <77haup$o74@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: Reply-To: eh671@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael McCord) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: eh671@freenet5.carleton.ca (Michael McCord) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!130.185.14.36!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!eh671 "Lee W" (joe@public.net) writes: > Hi Astral Travellers, > > Does time flow differently while dreaming? The reason I ask is that after I > yes. my favorite technique in guided visualization is, "you now have (x) minutes, which will expand to all the time you need, to....." and i'm sure someone will say, "'time is relative.' A.Einstein" -- ^ Michael /o\ --- ###### Message-ID: <369D7067.63F3D9CB@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming References: <01be3eaa$93dc3fc0$d5e555c6@default> <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 72 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:19:51 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.196 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 916287928 208.203.136.196 (Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:25:28 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:25:28 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!newsfeed.frii.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Lars Foleide wrote: > > First of all, I don't like your sentence: "So far there's no scientific evidence > that dreams > can take longer than real life time" Lars, there *is* no scientific evidence that dreams can take longer than real life time. This is a fact. There is only scientific evidence that dreams sometimes happen in real time by the eye signal method. If you can come up with even a *possible* experiment that can be performed to prove that dreams take longer, I would love to hear it! Oh wait, sorry, you just agreed it's impossible right here: > And it is impossible to scientifically prove that dream can take longer than real > life time. Thank you. Now then, where were we. > > P.S. And another thing, just because LaBerge found REM to match dream time, > doesn't > mean that in some cases can dream time last longer than real time.... > We have had people here that claim to have experienced 4 days in a short > realtime dream... As long as I'm in the middle of putting my two cents in I think I'll say a few things about this whole time thing. Time is measured in waking reality by physical objects such as clocks, the sun, the amount of time it takes to make a piece of toast and so on. One thing you can't use to measure time is the minds clock. I'm not referring to the biological clock or even our ability to say 1-thousand-1 using our mouth because these are physical as well. The mouth takes a certain amount of time to move up and down and we use this to tempo the words one-thousand-one. The mind's clock has no reference such as a moving mouth or a moving sun or a beating heart with which to count out time. When one sleeps for the night, one does not sense that the 8 unconsious hours happen in 8 hours, one only deduces that. It sometimes seems to me I've only been out 20 minutes. Physical reality tells us 8 hours has passed but our mind has a different opinion. During OBE it is possible to travel quickly, or slowly, or even teleport, to travel to places with possibly different times of day and so on so there is no external reference of time. In addition, when we teleport, have we traveled instantly or have we fallen asleep for 2 astral hours while we travel a million miles making it only seem like the travel was instantaneous? When we travel quickly are we really just traveling slowly but our minds time slows down for us making it seem like we are traveling very fast? Is time even stable on the astral plane as it is in waking life? We can deduce that sometimes time on the astral is the same as time on the physical by matching our experiences with a phys-clock. I have been out for 2 hours and it has seemed like 2 hours for example. There is also the question of time travel on the astral plane. If we travel quickly into the future while we are out, let's say 10 years, but the whole trip by the phys-clock shows 10 minutes, then that would mean that a year on the astral plane represents a minute on the physical plane. But then again if we suddenly change direction and travel into the past, then that would mean that time on the astral plane was the inverse to time on the physical plane. When a clock moves ahead on the physical plane, a clock will move backward on the astral plane. I think for the most part the astral mind uses the brain as a time piece which gives us a pretty normal sense of time, but there are still those times where time moves quite differently as well. Ken ###### Message-ID: <369D7067.63F3D9CB@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming References: <01be3eaa$93dc3fc0$d5e555c6@default> <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 72 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:19:51 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.196 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 916287928 208.203.136.196 (Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:25:28 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 21:25:28 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!newsfeed.frii.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Lars Foleide wrote: > > First of all, I don't like your sentence: "So far there's no scientific evidence > that dreams > can take longer than real life time" Lars, there *is* no scientific evidence that dreams can take longer than real life time. This is a fact. There is only scientific evidence that dreams sometimes happen in real time by the eye signal method. If you can come up with even a *possible* experiment that can be performed to prove that dreams take longer, I would love to hear it! Oh wait, sorry, you just agreed it's impossible right here: > And it is impossible to scientifically prove that dream can take longer than real > life time. Thank you. Now then, where were we. > > P.S. And another thing, just because LaBerge found REM to match dream time, > doesn't > mean that in some cases can dream time last longer than real time.... > We have had people here that claim to have experienced 4 days in a short > realtime dream... As long as I'm in the middle of putting my two cents in I think I'll say a few things about this whole time thing. Time is measured in waking reality by physical objects such as clocks, the sun, the amount of time it takes to make a piece of toast and so on. One thing you can't use to measure time is the minds clock. I'm not referring to the biological clock or even our ability to say 1-thousand-1 using our mouth because these are physical as well. The mouth takes a certain amount of time to move up and down and we use this to tempo the words one-thousand-one. The mind's clock has no reference such as a moving mouth or a moving sun or a beating heart with which to count out time. When one sleeps for the night, one does not sense that the 8 unconsious hours happen in 8 hours, one only deduces that. It sometimes seems to me I've only been out 20 minutes. Physical reality tells us 8 hours has passed but our mind has a different opinion. During OBE it is possible to travel quickly, or slowly, or even teleport, to travel to places with possibly different times of day and so on so there is no external reference of time. In addition, when we teleport, have we traveled instantly or have we fallen asleep for 2 astral hours while we travel a million miles making it only seem like the travel was instantaneous? When we travel quickly are we really just traveling slowly but our minds time slows down for us making it seem like we are traveling very fast? Is time even stable on the astral plane as it is in waking life? We can deduce that sometimes time on the astral is the same as time on the physical by matching our experiences with a phys-clock. I have been out for 2 hours and it has seemed like 2 hours for example. There is also the question of time travel on the astral plane. If we travel quickly into the future while we are out, let's say 10 years, but the whole trip by the phys-clock shows 10 minutes, then that would mean that a year on the astral plane represents a minute on the physical plane. But then again if we suddenly change direction and travel into the past, then that would mean that time on the astral plane was the inverse to time on the physical plane. When a clock moves ahead on the physical plane, a clock will move backward on the astral plane. I think for the most part the astral mind uses the brain as a time piece which gives us a pretty normal sense of time, but there are still those times where time moves quite differently as well. Ken ###### From: "claire" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming Date: 13 Jan 1999 23:32:42 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 92 Message-ID: <01be3f65$40e8d4c0$cbe555c6@default> References: <01be3eaa$93dc3fc0$d5e555c6@default> <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.85.229.203 X-Trace: 916270362 KESTV.NODE5CBC655C usenet78.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ69!not-for-mail Lars Foleide wrote in article <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no>... > claire wrote: > > > Stephen Laberge did research that indicated dream time was the same as > > real time. However, I know what you mean about a dream taking up more time > > than in real life. I think his research focused on REM sleep when dreams > > are being processed whereas I believe, I'm not too certain this is true, > > that out-of-body experiences happen either in REM or a different state like > > theta or something. I'm not a sleep researcher so I wouldn't know. But, so > > far there's no scientific evidence that dreams can take longer than real > > life time, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. > > > > Claire > > First of all, I don't like your sentence: "So far there's no scientific evidence > that dreams > can take longer than real life time" > Sorry Lars, I didn't know I was writing it for you. > In my opinion should it be: "As far as I know, there's no scientific evidence that > dreams can take longer than real life time" > > But it is human to make mistakes.... > You can re-phrase it however you like, but it's also human to try to be one up on someone else. > I'm not saying that there exist scientific evidence that dream can take longer > than real > life time. It is just that you don't know for sure that there isn't, so by that > reason should > you make that claim either... > That's why I ended it with: but that doesn't mean it's not possible. > > And it is impossible to scientifically prove that dream can take longer than real > life time. > Because the only evidence you can collect is REM. And if someone claim to have > experienced 1 hours when REM lasted for 30 minutes can just as well be a lie. > Not good enough for scientific evidence. > I didn't feel it necessary to go into the details of the experiment, but since you "asked?" it was actually quite easy to figure out how much time had passed. They took lucid dreamers who had control of their eye movements during REM and they were told to signal via a specific abnormal eye signal when they had gone lucid. Then they were told that in thier dreams they were to count 1, 1 thousand, 2, 1 thousand etc. until so much time had passed. Then they were to signal again. The sleep researchers recording the dream would take the time interval between the two signals and see how close it approached "real" time. The experiments were done in a sleep lab and the whole thing was very controlled. Lying would have only tilted the results towards inconclusive, not conclusively that dream time is real time. > Maybe a shared dream that lasted longer than real life time can scientifically > prove > the phenomenon.... > > > Cheers, > Lars > > P.S. And another thing, just because LaBerge found REM to match dream time, > doesn't > mean that in some cases can dream time last longer than real time.... > We have had people here that claim to have experienced 4 days in a short > realtime dream... > Again that's why I said: but that doesn't mean it's not possible. > > ###### From: LOKAS Hue Aethyrs Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 01:15:33 -0500 Organization: CyberGate, Inc. Lines: 41 Message-ID: References: <01be3eaa$93dc3fc0$d5e555c6@default> <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no> <369D7067.63F3D9CB@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tstpa1-116.gate.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: lokas@localhost.localdomain In-Reply-To: <369D7067.63F3D9CB@privatei.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!netnews.com!news.globix.net!news-pen-2.sprintlink.net!news-east1.sprintlink.net!news-peer1.sprintlink.net!news-in-east1.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.gate.net!tstpa1-116.gate.net!lokas >Is time even stable on the astral > plane as it is in waking life? > > We can deduce that sometimes time on the astral is the same as time on > the physical by matching our experiences with a phys-clock. I have been > out for 2 hours and it has seemed like 2 hours for example. > > There is also the question of time travel on the astral plane... I think that time is a property of the third dimension. I don't think that it takes time at all to travel through the astral plane or space either. I think that space is also only a property of the third dimension. I had a theory that this is why and how Remote Viewing works. You actually look *through* the astral plain which has no space, into another part of the physical. like a portal. Dream time may have something to do with what we expect and are conditioned to. We are used to having 120 degree vision and experiencing time and there for our subconscious let's us keep those properties in the *dream world* But I don't think it is nescessary to experience time in dreams, however we tend to think linearly. I don't know about, and hope to experiment with time travel of the third dimension by going through the astral. That is another thing. Even If we project to the physical plan, in dense etheric bodies, and spend a week in that state, could we not go into the astral and from there return to our bodies only moments after we left it. And therefor physically/linearly (time wise), we would be out of our bodies even after we have retuned to it. We parted from our bodies for mere seconds, yet our spirits were out for much longer. Just thinking of all the posibilities excites me. LOVE and LIGHT LOKAS ###### From: dromero@no.spam.roanoke.infi.net (Douglas J. Romero ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming Date: 14 Jan 1999 12:12:30 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 88 Message-ID: <77kmve$ak6$1@nw001t.infi.net> References: <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm7-222.roanoke.infi.net X-Newsreader: Ink Spot 1.18 for Newton Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!208.131.160.208!news.infi.net!not-for-mail In message <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no>, Lars Foleide wrote: > > claire wrote: > > > Stephen Laberge did research that indicated dream time was the same as > > real time. However, I know what you mean about a dream taking up more time > > than in real life. I think his research focused on REM sleep when dreams > > are being processed whereas I believe, I'm not too certain this is true, > > that out-of-body experiences happen either in REM or a different state like > > theta or something. I'm not a sleep researcher so I wouldn't know. But, so > > far there's no scientific evidence that dreams can take longer than real > > life time, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. > > > > Claire > > First of all, I don't like your sentence: "So far there's no scientific evidence > that dreams > can take longer than real life time" > > In my opinion should it be: "As far as I know, there's no scientific evidence that > dreams can take longer than real life time" > > But it is human to make mistakes.... > > I'm not saying that there exist scientific evidence that dream can take longer > than real > life time. It is just that you don't know for sure that there isn't, so by that > reason should > you make that claim either... > > > And it is impossible to scientifically prove that dream can take longer than real > life time. > Because the only evidence you can collect is REM. And if someone claim to have > experienced 1 hours when REM lasted for 30 minutes can just as well be a lie. > Not good enough for scientific evidence. > > Maybe a shared dream that lasted longer than real life time can scientifically > prove > the phenomenon.... > > > Cheers, > Lars > > P.S. And another thing, just because LaBerge found REM to match dream time, > doesn't > mean that in some cases can dream time last longer than real time.... > We have had people here that claim to have experienced 4 days in a short > realtime dream... > > If I'm not mistaken "as far as I know" ;) Laberge did offer an explanation of how one can subjectively experience more time that has actually passed in a dream. I believe he stated something along the lines of cutscenes to "simulate" time passing more quickly. This is indeed an interesting discussion since to begin with time can be very subjective in the "normal" states of consciousness. It is only fair game to see subjective time differences or distortions during the dream state. Figure into the equation that to begin with relativity tells us that time is relative and... well... Anyway since you people started the discussion I figure you deserve having to endure my hypothesis of how this works... >:) I believe it comes down to the brain wavelength frequency at the time of the subjective experience. If the brain frequency is higher (imagine an overclocked CPU) you will experience "more" time. A lower frequency would yield a "slower" experience. The DoggieMon -- Douglas J. Romero, MD University of Virginia Salem.-Roanoke Psychiatry Program ###### Message-ID: <369E0132.8E402E03@netparadise.no> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:37:38 +0100 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming References: <01be3eaa$93dc3fc0$d5e555c6@default> <369CB26D.2579D2EB@netparadise.no> <01be3f65$40e8d4c0$cbe555c6@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o204p53.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t1o204p53.telia.com Lines: 40 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t1o204p53.telia.com claire wrote: > > First of all, I don't like your sentence: "So far there's no scientific > evidence > > that dreams > > can take longer than real life time" > > > Sorry Lars, I didn't know I was writing it for you. Neither did I....But as far as I can tell do you need to be aware of every scientific studies done on this area to make such a statement... And you can never be sure of that you have read them all.... > That's why I ended it with: but that doesn't mean it's not possible. True, but you still claim to know every scientific studies done in the area... There still may be studies that show that dream time may take more time than real time. Many people are under the impression that paranormal phenomenon is not a scientific proven fact, when it in fact is.... > I didn't feel it necessary to go into the details of the experiment, but > since you "asked?" it was actually quite easy to figure out how much time > had passed. They took lucid dreamers who had control of their eye movements > during REM and they were told to signal via a specific abnormal eye signal > when they had gone lucid. Then they were told that in thier dreams they > were to count 1, 1 thousand, 2, 1 thousand etc. until so much time had > passed. Then they were to signal again. The sleep researchers recording the > dream would take the time interval between the two signals and see how > close it approached "real" time. The experiments were done in a sleep lab > and the whole thing was very controlled. Lying would have only tilted the > results towards inconclusive, not conclusively that dream time is real > time. Sure, that could work. Regards, Lars ###### From: dromero@no.spam.roanoke.infi.net (Douglas J. Romero ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Time Flow While Dreaming Date: 15 Jan 1999 11:01:00 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 43 Message-ID: <77n75c$e0q$2@nw001t.infi.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pm8-212.roanoke.infi.net X-Newsreader: Ink Spot 1.18 for Newton Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!208.131.160.208!news.infi.net!not-for-mail In message , LOKAS Hue Aethyrs wrote: > > I think that time is a property of the third dimension. I don't think > that it takes time at all to travel through the astral plane or space > either. I think that space is also only a property of the third dimension. > I had a theory that this is why and how Remote Viewing works. You > actually look *through* the astral plain which has no space, into another > part of the physical. like a portal. > I think you're correct in your general assumptions. However... some things require clarification. We typically live in a tetradimensional state of mind. Space itself occupies the first 3 dimensions with time being the 4th. You do raise an interesting question about the mechanics of remote Viewing since reportedly you Can not only view places but different times as well while RVing. I myself believe that OBEs and RV are basically the same phenomenon with different levels of brain involvement. > Dream time may have something to do with what we expect and are > conditioned to. We are used to having 120 degree vision and experiencing > time and there for our subconscious let's us keep those properties in the > *dream world* But I don't think it is nescessary to experience time in > dreams, however we tend to think linearly. Can only but agree. > Just thinking of all the posibilities excites me. > > > LOVE and LIGHT > LOKAS > Again we are on agreement ;^). The DoggieMon -- Douglas J. Romero, MD University of Virginia Salem.-Roanoke Psychiatry Program