Message-ID: <36896AF1.9EB383B0@sympatico.ca> From: Michel Ranger Reply-To: gm.ranger@sympatico.ca X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: self healing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 3 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:51:13 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.163.14 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 914975492 206.172.163.14 (Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:51:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:51:32 EDT Organization: Bell Solutions Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail who knows about self healing??? let me know. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <36896AF1.9EB383B0@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: self healing Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 02:03:23 +0100 Lines: 10 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p35.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p35.telia.com Message-ID: <36897b85.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!aconews.univie.ac.at!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p35.telia.com Try lucid dreaming... Lars Michel Ranger wrote in message <36896AF1.9EB383B0@sympatico.ca>... > who knows about self healing??? >let me know. > ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: self healing Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:37:00 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Lines: 23 Message-ID: <368a005b.64358808@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <36896AF1.9EB383B0@sympatico.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa185.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news-out.news.pipex.net.MISMATCH!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:51:13 -0500, Michel Ranger wrote: > who knows about self healing??? >let me know. The person who knows most about healing yourself is your Self. Start with reading Louis Proto's book 'Healing Your Self' and attend meditation classes. Practice meditation daily, visit a homeopath every month, read about and visit spiritual healers, and most importantly, reassess and learn how to enjoy your life. Give yourself a year to achieve this. I did all these things over the last year. Previously, I had suffered from M.E. (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) for the past ten years. I am not fully healed yet, but I am greatly recovered, and much happier. Certainly I have recently had a heart attack, but the big difference is that now I know WHY. I also know what to do about it. The world is much clearer to me now than it was a year ago, and I have much more energy to appreciate it with. I wish you a voyage of self-discovery as fascinating and rewarding as mine has been. All best wishes, Julia HM. ###### From: chester basshead Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: self healing Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 11:25:23 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <368a005b.64358808@news.dial.pipex.com> <76ecpd$1od$1@nw001t.infi.net> <368ad30a.118280108@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 2 Jan 1999 07:26:39 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Fri Jan 1 23:35:02 1999 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 67 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: pool040-max5.ds15-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net Message-ID: <368E72A3.531B5E95@earthlink.nXXXet> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!worldfeed.news.gte.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > On 30 Dec 1998 23:25:33 GMT, dromero@no.spam.roanoke.infi.bet (Douglas > J. Romero ) wrote: > >And of course a visit to your primary care physician wouldn't hurt. If you > >feel depressed there are a myriad of new medical studies showing a STRONG > >connection between depression and poor outcome for many different diseases. > > Only of any use if your General Practitioner ever read the latest > research. That would be a rare thing amongst many of the doctors > I have encountered. I agree that a positive attitude is vital to > recovery. But I also feel (through experience) that a depressed person > needs rather more help than just being told to 'cheer up and pull > yourself together'! Or just being told to pop a series of heavy-duty > pills, either, come to that. > After ten years' worth of monthly visits to various consultants > and specialists, and to my doctor (a lovely man, who just said "Oh, > poor you, I wish I could suggest something which might help,") > I got fed up with the general medical approach to whole-body illness. > So, as ever when you want a thing done properly, you have to do it > yourself. So I tried all the available alternatives, having decided > that I was expecting no miracle cure. But I was expecting to discover > why this illness had happened to me, and what I could do about it. > The miraculous thing which happened was learning about myself, and > how to change my mind in many and fascinating ways. > Miracle cures do happen, they just take a little longer than you > expect... > All best wishes, JHM. Hi Julia. :) It was nice reading more about your journey! Your post reminds me of a cool book I am reading called "Space, Time and Medicine" written by Larry Dossey, M.D. He discusses the lack of an understanding and recognition of consciousness and it's effect on healing in Modern Medicine as well how little of the picture modern physics is continuing to paint of 'reality' it accepts. Much of medicine seems to lie on a foundation of Cartesian mechanistic approaches to understanding the human body where man is a clockwork of moving parts which can be dissected completely (to the molecular level) and understood rationally. It's interesting (to me at least) to think about the profound impact Descartes and Newton had on our view of reality as a whole and its comparison to modern views in which aspects of consciousness can only be understood as some sort of interconnected web linking everyone and everything(and every moment in time), through which healing energy somehow manifests, guided by thought. Dossey seems to feel that modern western medicine has a great deal of catching up to do and needs a model which correlates with modern physics and accepts the *primacy* of consciousness, a model which allows non local healing and miracle stories. Unfortunately (IMO) many doctors still have their heads buried in the sand and are as terrified of ambandoning the safety of their clockwork view as anyone else (or even more so!) But then again, there are physicists who are still deathly afraid of discussing the Aspect experiments... they act as if you are inquiring about their marital infidelity or something.. ha ha. I'd say it's safe to say we are in a transition.. but luckily there are some loud voices, like Larry Dossey, Jeffrey Mishlove, Frijof Capra, etc.. and even Moneybags Weil! ;-) May your future years be full of happiness and good health! Warmly, Brian ###### From: dromero@no.spam.roanoke.infi.bet (Douglas J. Romero ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: self healing Date: 2 Jan 1999 12:12:50 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 56 Message-ID: <76l2g2$6a2$1@nw001t.infi.net> References: <368ad30a.118280108@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm7-212.roanoke.infi.net X-Newsreader: Ink Spot 1.18 for Newton Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!208.131.160.208!news.infi.net!not-for-mail In message <368ad30a.118280108@news.dial.pipex.com>, hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > > On 30 Dec 1998 23:25:33 GMT, dromero@no.spam.roanoke.infi.bet (Douglas > J. Romero ) wrote: > >And of course a visit to your primary care physician wouldn't hurt. If you > >feel depressed there are a myriad of new medical studies showing a STRONG > >connection between depression and poor outcome for many different diseases. > > Only of any use if your General Practitioner ever read the latest > research. That would be a rare thing amongst many of the doctors > I have encountered. I agree that a positive attitude is vital to > recovery. But I also feel (through experience) that a depressed person > needs rather more help than just being told to 'cheer up and pull > yourself together'! Or just being told to pop a series of heavy-duty > pills, either, come to that. > After ten years' worth of monthly visits to various consultants > and specialists, and to my doctor (a lovely man, who just said "Oh, > poor you, I wish I could suggest something which might help,") > I got fed up with the general medical approach to whole-body illness. > So, as ever when you want a thing done properly, you have to do it > yourself. So I tried all the available alternatives, having decided > that I was expecting no miracle cure. But I was expecting to discover > why this illness had happened to me, and what I could do about it. > The miraculous thing which happened was learning about myself, and > how to change my mind in many and fascinating ways. > Miracle cures do happen, they just take a little longer than you > expect... > All best wishes, JHM. This is getting a little bit off topic but here it goes anyway. Remember that the move medical science knows about a disease process the better it gets at treating it. If I remember correctly I think you mentioned suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome... a disease process of which we know little. As such our therapeutic offerings are limited. It is conceivable to recur to More esoteric cures. Think of HIV 10 years ago, when we thought the virus was almost invincible. At present most experts agree that HIV infection is reaching the point of becoming a chronically manageable Iondition. Much like diabetes. A cure is in the horizon. About reading the latest... you're right. But as data accumulates some things become too evident to be ignored. Some cardiologist have begun to advocate giving anti-depressants to ALL persons suffering from a heart attack. The theoretical standard of care remains something very similar to holistic medicine. In reality unfortunately most of the time that doesn't happen. sorry for the rant, The DoggieMon -- Douglas J. Romero, MD University of Virginia Salem-Roanoke Psychiatry Program ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: self healing Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 14:21:21 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Message-ID: <368e17c4.15408110@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <368ad30a.118280108@news.dial.pipex.com> <76l2g2$6a2$1@nw001t.infi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa168.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Lines: 61 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On 2 Jan 1999 12:12:50 GMT, dromero@no.spam.roanoke.infi.bet (Douglas J. Romero ) wrote: >This is getting a little bit off topic but here it goes anyway. Remember >that the move medical science knows about a disease process the better it >gets at treating it. If I remember correctly I think you mentioned suffering >from chronic fatigue syndrome... a disease process of which we know little. Correct (for 11 years) and correct. However, my Homeopath knows a lot about it and has improved my condition dramatically. My Healers and she work together to reinforce the improvements. My Doctor just expresses pleasure that I am improving at last. >As such our therapeutic offerings are limited. It is conceivable to recur >to More esoteric cures. Think of HIV 10 years ago, when we thought the virus >was almost invincible. At present most experts agree that HIV infection is >reaching the point of becoming a chronically manageable Iondition. Much like >diabetes. A cure is in the horizon. Whilst Tubercolosis is escalating out of control in some Western inner city areas, along with childhood 'glue ear', due to abuse of prescribed antibiotics. Asthma affects 1 in 3 children in our small town, 1 in 6 five years ago, 1 in 20 ten years ago, and is generally treated with powerful steroids. The cures can become the sickness if the whole body is not treated. >About reading the latest... you're right. But as data accumulates some things >become too evident to be ignored. Some cardiologist have begun to advocate >giving anti-depressants to ALL persons suffering from a heart attack. Having just had a heart attack, no thanks. Stress caused it, certainly, but stress is not the same thing as depression. I know. Stress is what makes you jump out of bed to begin another challenging and invigorating day. Teachers get ill during the school holidays, as they relax and idle away their time. Depression is what makes you hide under the covers in the morning unwilling to risk more struggle and defeat. Entirely different. A recent UK survey suggested that 70% of GPs' patients are suffering from unmanaged stress. GP Surgeries increasingly include a Counsellor, Asthma Nurse and a Dietician. Some now include an Osteopath, Homeopath, and Spiritual Healers. Things are changing because the patients demand that they do so. Doctors used to be considered to be the most wise, powerful and respectable members of society (as opposed to the local witch who was wise, powerful and disrespectful!). Today they are seen as overworked and out of touch, often with drug and drink problems (among the top five professional groups most likely to experience alchohol abuse). Prescribing yet more anti-depressants does nothing to get to the root cause of stress. >The >theoretical standard of care remains something very similar to holistic >medicine. In reality unfortunately most of the time that doesn't happen. And holistic medicine practitioners are increasing and expanding their practices at an extraordinary pace, because they are providing the treatment and support which actually cures people instead of deferring and creating ever more severe illnesses. >sorry for the rant, Rant on! All best wishes, JHM. ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: self healing Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999 17:52:49 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Lines: 9 Message-ID: <368e5c6f.32982627@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <368a005b.64358808@news.dial.pipex.com> <76ecpd$1od$1@nw001t.infi.net> <368ad30a.118280108@news.dial.pipex.com> <368E72A3.531B5E95@earthlink.nXXXet> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa202.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Sat, 02 Jan 1999 11:25:23 -0800, chester basshead wrote: (Interesting and optimistic post with which I entirely agree snipped) >May your future years be full of happiness and good health! >>Warmly, >>Brian And yours, too! All best wishes, Julia HM.