Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: "David Burns" Subject: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ppp1 Message-ID: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> Sender: news@spuddy.mew.co.uk Organization: [no company] X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 21:01:25 GMT Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.dera.gov.uk!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!spuddy!news Has anyone managed, whilst oobe-ing to actually prove to themelves they're projecting close enough to the physical plane to, for instance, look at a large picture in a locked room near them that has been placed beforehand without you knowing what the picture was? -- Dave / [=- X -=] E-Mail: polaris@spuddy.mew.co.uk Fido: 2:257/145.6 ###### From: "Bandit450" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:11:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.137.163 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 19:11:30 EDT Organization: Bell Solutions Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail I've read words that I my friends put on their desks. Does that count? -- Bandit450---The official jazzed up, swinging nerd fool of ANO "Dammit, Jim, I'm a nerd not a doctor!!" http://bandit450.cjb.net David Burns wrote in message <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave>... >Has anyone managed, whilst oobe-ing to actually prove to themelves they're >projecting close enough to the physical plane to, for instance, look at a >large picture in a locked room near them that has been placed beforehand >without you knowing what the picture was? > >-- >Dave / [=- X -=] >E-Mail: polaris@spuddy.mew.co.uk >Fido: 2:257/145.6 ###### Message-ID: <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 00:13:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.85 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 19:13:56 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail David Burns wrote: > > Has anyone managed, whilst oobe-ing to actually prove to themelves they're > projecting close enough to the physical plane to, for instance, look at a > large picture in a locked room near them that has been placed beforehand > without you knowing what the picture was? > Thats one of the thing I will try once I get the hang of OBE. I am gonna PROOVE to myself (and myself only) that its not another state of countiousness like a dream (but a new one) and that it really is the contience moving out of the body. Cya Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 19:13:21 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 15 Message-ID: <74hrb1$d9b@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh42-58.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Dec 07 4:19:45 PM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news A Sceptic wrote in message <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com>... >I think it's a load of old tosh, this supposed OBE lark. There is no such >thing as an OBE. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that is being >spoken about here are dreams. Who do you guys think you are fooling? >Yourselves? We're just here to piss you off. Did it work? Bart ###### Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 19:31:32 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Message-ID: References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com, stupid people cant email me like that ;-) X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.63.215 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.63.215 X-Trace: 7 Dec 1998 19:31:30 GMT, 194.112.63.215 Lines: 31 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!diablo.theplanet.net!peer.news.th.u-net.net!u-net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!newsread3.dircon.co.uk!news.dircon.co.uk!asdfg > > Has anyone managed, whilst oobe-ing to actually prove to themelves they're > > projecting close enough to the physical plane to, for instance, look at a > > large picture in a locked room near them that has been placed beforehand > > without you knowing what the picture was? > Thats one of the thing I will try once I get the hang of OBE. I am gonna > PROOVE to myself (and myself only) that its not another state of > countiousness like a dream (but a new one) and that it really is the > contience moving out of the body. I said it already here before. its another reality with different laws of physics. The thing about the oobe realm is that all or most of what you experienced you know just as you know in the real world that it could exist without you and you certainlu did not create it and its not part of you. Just as you know this in the real world you should know it there. Its just another reality. reality being defined as something that can exist without you. it happens to correspond to this reality very closely often, but then with strange and big differences. i remember the road level outside my house was up to half way up my windows in my house, meaning I could see rock from half of my windows. I think you might find it hard to see the phsical world from the oobe realm. But perhaps the states of mind needed are similar. Perhaps you should make this a question. I think i did before and people didnt know, but... Do a web search for "remote viewing" or "clairvoyance", they are mostly the same thing, and mean what you said above. They dont describe looking at the oobe realm. ###### Message-ID: <366CB169.F5E3365C@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> <74hrb1$d9b@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 21:56:09 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.194 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 913093255 208.203.136.194 (Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:00:55 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 22:00:55 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail OK everybody, the sting worked. Time to tear down the sets and collect our pay. Ken Bart wrote: > > A Sceptic wrote in message <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com>... > >I think it's a load of old tosh, this supposed OBE lark. There is no such > >thing as an OBE. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that is > being > >spoken about here are dreams. Who do you guys think you are fooling? > >Yourselves? > > We're just here to piss you off. Did it work? > > Bart ###### From: do_not_panic@hotmail.com (A Sceptic) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Date: 8 Dec 1998 00:11:16 GMT Organization: none Lines: 5 Message-ID: <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host5-99-47-58.btinternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.freedom2surf.net!btnet-peer!btnet!neptunium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail I think it's a load of old tosh, this supposed OBE lark. There is no such thing as an OBE. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that is being spoken about here are dreams. Who do you guys think you are fooling? Yourselves? ###### Message-ID: <366CB1F8.CE12F631@visi.net> From: John Garrison Organization: SS Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 62 Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 06:44:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp14.ts1-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 01:44:20 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail A Sceptic wrote: > I think it's a load of old tosh, this supposed OBE lark. There is no such > thing as an OBE. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that is being > spoken about here are dreams. Who do you guys think you are fooling? > Yourselves? Dreams? There is no such thing as a dream. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that has ever been proven is that during sleep peoples eyes move really fast. So I'll hear no more of this Dream Hogwash, and don't give me none of that everybody says they've had dreams BS neither, they are all just fooling themselves too.:) But keeping to the subject of posting regarding if anybody has seen something that really exists even though they had no previous knowledge of it. One of the two or three times I've had a successful OBE I had came out of a Lucid dream, and I knew I was waking up, so I made sure to keep my eyes closed hoping to get back to the Lucid dream, but after laying there instead of returning to the dream I projected. This was one of the times that it wasn't intentional, which seem to be the only successful ones for me, so I didn't snap right back to my body. I walked around my room for a while and looked around and when I did snap back and wake up EVERYTHING was were I had seen it. I have a very messy room, but every magazine, sheets of paper, brushes, video game controllers, everthing was in the exact same position. This was enough to convince me because nothing was out of place and I didn't think that a dream would be that precise. That is when I bought a book on Astral Projection, I wanted to be able to do this on will. The method in the book didn't work for me though. So I laid the book down and ignored it for a while. Then a friend saw it and wanted to try it. His intrest brought back my interest, so we both tried it. I laid there for ever trying to get it to work. After what seems like an eternity my friend made a noise as if suddenly awakening from a bad dream, and all he said was "I'm never doing that again" According to him he had projected and walked out of my room and saw my mother working in the kitchen, then woke up. My guess is that realizing it worked sort of freaked him out and he snapped back. Anyhow, my mother really was in the kitchen. Maybe he heard her working then fell asleep really fast and instantly had the most realistic dream of his life, but I doubt it. ###### Message-ID: <366CF71A.7A0F629E@netparadise.no> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 10:53:30 +0100 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p27.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p27.telia.com Lines: 20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t2o204p27.telia.com You? No.... Come'on guys... We need to work harder on this guy. Shall we go to plan B? Or it looks like we might as well jump to plan C, this one looks like a hardcore skeptic... Regards, Lars A Sceptic wrote: > I think it's a load of old tosh, this supposed OBE lark. There is no such > thing as an OBE. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that is being > spoken about here are dreams. Who do you guys think you are fooling? > Yourselves? ###### Message-ID: <366D0118.C81CA721@netparadise.no> Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 11:36:08 +0100 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p27.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p27.telia.com Lines: 13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t2o204p27.telia.com A Sceptic wrote: > I think it's a load of old tosh, this supposed OBE lark. There is no such > thing as an OBE. There is no evidence of such a thing and all that is being > spoken about here are dreams. Who do you guys think you are fooling? > Yourselves? No REM is detected during OOBE, so sorry, it can't be a dream. Any other explanations? (Giving plan B a try...), Lars ###### Message-ID: <366DECCF.9F47A60D@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:21:51 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.192 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 913174057 208.203.136.192 (Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:27:37 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 20:27:37 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Don't lose heart Lan. Actually I did read your post and I thought it closely matched what I believe to be true as well. I just didn't think that posting a reply saying something like, "I couldn't have said it better myself" was all that original so I refrained. You don't want my title taken from me do you? For the benifit of those that may have missed it, here is the heart of what Lan wrote. It's an important statement because a lot of OBEers are still under the impression that just because they see their bedroom while OBE that it is actually their real bedroom that they are seeing. It's possible and even a fact according to some folks that it is the real bedroom, but you have to understand that while OBE you no longer have physical eyes. Don't expect to see reality in the traditional sense. What you are seeing while astral is most likely astral information forming in your mind as an image of your room and a damn good image at that. No eyes required. Ken Lan wrote: I said it already here before. its another reality with different laws of physics. The thing about the oobe realm is that all or most of what you experienced you know just as you know in the real world that it could exist without you and you certainlu did not create it and its not part of you. Just as you know this in the real world you should know it there. Its just another reality. reality being defined as something that can exist without you. it happens to correspond to this reality very closely often, but then with strange and big differences. i remember the road level outside my house was up to half way up my windows in my house, meaning I could see rock from half of my windows. I think you might find it hard to see the phsical world from the oobe realm. But perhaps the states of mind needed are similar. Perhaps you should make this a question. I think i did before and people didnt know, but... Lan wrote: > > oh well at least i know someone is reading my threads, even if no one else > actually ever replies to them :( ###### Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 01:58:56 +0000 From: asdfg@zxcv.net (Lan) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Message-ID: References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> Organization: collection60 at hotmail.com, stupid people cant email me like that ;-) X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.61.236 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.61.236 X-Trace: 9 Dec 1998 01:58:55 GMT, 194.112.61.236 Lines: 2 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.32.19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!newsread3.dircon.co.uk!news.dircon.co.uk!asdfg oh well at least i know someone is reading my threads, even if no one else actually ever replies to them :( ###### From: do_not_panic@hotmail.com (A Sceptic) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Date: 10 Dec 1998 04:42:02 GMT Organization: none Lines: 20 Message-ID: <74njeq$8bb$1@mendelevium.btinternet.com> References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> <366CB1F8.CE12F631@visi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: host5-99-52-55.btinternet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.93.11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!btnet-peer!btnet!neptunium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail And you wonder why I'm sceptical? I see a major contradiction here. First we have you, John Garrison, saying that you saw your untidy room just as it was in real life and your friend walking through a wall and seeing your mother in a different room. OK fine, I'll accept that as a possibility or not. But then we haveLan and Lars saying that you don't actually see the physical world when OOB but see a kind of etheric astral world. Well does that mean that in this astral world there's an untidy room exactly like John's and an astral mother working in an astral kitchen, all remarkably and by a most amazing coincidence, exactly the same as the real thing? Err, something's not quite right here. John, your friend either walked through a wall and saw your mother or didn't. Now I find that pretty impossible to believe but if it happened and was proven to be the case, I'd have to accept it. But a kind of parallel astral universe? Come on now... ###### Message-ID: <366F61BF.4481C1FC@visi.net> From: John Garrison Organization: SS Software X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.07 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.31 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> <366CB1F8.CE12F631@visi.net> <74njeq$8bb$1@mendelevium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 78 Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:38:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp10.ts2-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 02:38:57 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!out-1.nntp.visi.net.MISMATCH!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail I claim to be no expert. I am simply telling you what happened to me and to my friend. But you know what, if you want prove so bad, why don't you try it yourself. You've read the methods just like we have. Quit asking us to prove it to you and go out and prove it to yourself. I don't mean trying a method thinking "this isn't going to work" the whole time, because if you do that obviously it won't work. And nobody in this group is claiming that thier methods work for 100% of the people 100% of the time. Obviously this is something you are interested in so keep trying, try different methods, try them more than one time. Remember the ability to Astral Project is a skill, just like playing the guitar nobody can just pick up a guitar and start playing 'Voodoo Chile' It's going to take practice. Maybe you should pick up a book or two on the subject, these books often give you lots of baby-step exercises to build your visualization skills, get you in the right state of mind and learn you a little something about the astral realm. Besides, you talk about us contradicting ourselves, I think that most of these stories are pretty damn similar, everybody in this group seems to be able to relate to one aspect of anothers experiences. If it wasn't real, or if it was all in our head, then wouldn't all of our experiences depend soley on our own mindset and our own imaginations/pre-conceptions as to what OOBE was "supposed" to feel like? I'm pretty sure that a group of people didn't get together and decide to put together a newsgroup and visit it everyday to play some huge hoax on people who may or may not wander in. And even if they did, newbies to the group like myself wouldn't be in on this hoax and so the fact that we've had this stuff happen to us before we even knew the group existed would still lend credit to the Astral Projection concept even thought this massive group of extremely bored hoaxers thought they were making something up. Bottom line, I KNOW that it is real, do you KNOW that it isn't? A Sceptic wrote: > And you wonder why I'm sceptical? I see a major contradiction here. > First we have you, John Garrison, saying that you saw your untidy room > just as it was in real life and your friend walking through a wall and > seeing your mother in a different room. OK fine, I'll accept that as a > possibility or not. But then we haveLan and Lars saying that you don't > actually see the physical world when OOB but see a kind of etheric astral > world. > > Well does that mean that in this astral world there's an untidy room > exactly like John's and an astral mother working in an astral kitchen, > all remarkably and by a most amazing coincidence, exactly the same as the > real thing? > > Err, something's not quite right here. John, your friend either walked > through a wall and saw your mother or didn't. Now I find that pretty > impossible to believe but if it happened and was proven to be the case, > I'd have to accept it. > > But a kind of parallel astral universe? Come on now... ###### Message-ID: <366EE24B.9C93737D@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 07:49:15 +1100 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.19 X-Trace: 10 Dec 1998 09:23:23 +1000, 203.18.28.19 Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!easynet-fr!uunet!in1.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.19 David Burns wrote: > > Has anyone managed, whilst oobe-ing to actually prove to themelves they're > projecting close enough to the physical plane to, for instance, look at a > large picture in a locked room near them that has been placed beforehand > without you knowing what the picture was? > I wonder if anyone has ever got OOB and astrally moved their physical body somehow, like moved one leg or and arm into a different position, then come back to the physical to see if it had indeed moved. It may not prove the OBE as much as it would prove that we can be conscious, and somehow *view* ourselves remotely and interact with our physical as it slept, in such a way as to be able to prove it to ourselves afterwards. Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: clairity@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 16:25:05 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 20 Message-ID: <74oskt$i2l$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366EE24B.9C93737D@the.end.of.the.message> NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.97.110.72 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Dec 10 16:25:05 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.02 (OS/2; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x3.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 32.97.110.72 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.new-york.net!newspeer1.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail > I wonder if anyone has ever got OOB and astrally moved their physical > body somehow, like moved one leg or and arm into a different position, > then come back to the physical to see if it had indeed moved. It may not > prove the OBE as much as it would prove that we can be conscious, and > somehow *view* ourselves remotely and interact with our physical as it > slept, in such a way as to be able to prove it to ourselves afterwards. > > Craig Craig, I'm always afraid that if I even *look* directly at my physical body that I will be pulled back in (I doubt that I'll ever get up the nerve to actually move it around). You've got me curious though.. I wonder how your physical body would feel in your astral hands?? Clairity -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 22:43:56 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 29 Message-ID: <36724e12.8341368@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> <366CB1F8.CE12F631@visi.net> <74njeq$8bb$1@mendelevium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bilby15.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On 10 Dec 1998 04:42:02 GMT, do_not_panic@hotmail.com (A Sceptic) wrote: < snip > >Well does that mean that in this astral world there's an untidy room >exactly like John's and an astral mother working in an astral kitchen, >all remarkably and by a most amazing coincidence, exactly the same as the >real thing? >Err, something's not quite right here. < snip > Why ? If the astral body appears to be identical to the physical body then why cannot there be an "untidy" counterpart to an "untidy" room ? I am not saying the room exists BUT I am interested in why you imply it cannot exist. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk ("David Simpkiss") Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Message-ID: Organization: Compulink Information eXchange References: <366F61BF.4481C1FC@visi.net> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 04:02:55 GMT X-News-Software: Ameol Lines: 55 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news.fh-hannover.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!ayres.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!peernews.cix.co.uk!cix.compulink.co.uk!usenet Thanks for that thoughtful reply, John Garrison. I am "A Sceptic" but am posting from a different server which uses my real name (David Simpkiss). I don't know much about techniques of astral projection and I haven't read much of this newsgroup since I only found it the other day. But from what I've read here, some descriptions of OBEs are very similar to an experience I had several times back in 1984. I was suffering from sleep deprivation and would go to sleep at lunchtime for a while. To begin with< I started regularly experiencing sleep paralysis, i.e. half waking up and finding that I couldn't move my body. This wasn't an unpleasant experience and I quite enjoyed it. Then a few times I felt as if I was floating out of my body. I was in a semi-sleep state and I guess you could possibly call it a lucid dream state. I realised that I was not fully awake but at the same time I knew I was possibly in some sort of dream state. I felt that I was floating out of my body and after a while I experimented doing a few twists and turns. I tried to "see" if the room looked the same as it did in real life but this was difficult to do and things were a very hazy and unclear. The main sensation I got was one of weightlessness and I enjoyed this sensation. Finally I would relax completely and find myself floating backwards with my feet going up into the air and my head going down. This reverse somersalt felt great but it always ended by me floating back into my body. These are the sensations I experienced. It was not like a flying dream because I actually felt seperated from my body and hence, the floating back into it. It was only when I got the sensation of the backward somersalt into my body that I realised that I had appeared to have been seperate from it. So was this an OBE. Personally I doubt that it was. Perhaps it was a special kind of lucid dream. Perhaps I just FELT like I was out of my body. I wouldn't call this an OBE myself. My sister (now dead) did once have what could be described as a genuine OBE. She was having a difficult labour giving birth and then she remembered looking across the delivery room at a woman in labour and thinking, "That poor woman" and then she realised that the woman was herself. She saw a brilliant light that was very, very bright but didn't hurt her eyes (her words). She felt that she could easily just disappear into the light and leave this world but then she looked back at herself and saw that she had given birth to a daughter and so she decided to stay here. Perhaps this is a genuine OBE. Perhaps but we cannot know for sure. In my original post, using the name A. Sceptic I did say that I thought that OBEs are just dreams. I'll rephrase that. I think that what most people call OBEs are a special kind of lucid dream. But perhaps there really is an OBE where the person is half way between life and death. This is one area I have looked at quite alot, particularly in light of what happened to my sister. Thanks for your time. ¶ David Simpkiss ¶ (A. Sceptic.) djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <367036C8.42C72BC0@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:02:00 +1100 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366EE24B.9C93737D@the.end.of.the.message> <74oskt$i2l$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.15 X-Trace: 11 Dec 1998 09:30:26 +1000, 203.18.28.15 Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.news.gte.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.15 Clairity wrote: > Craig, I'm always afraid that if I even *look* directly at my physical > body that I will be pulled back in (I doubt that I'll ever get up the > nerve to actually move it around). You've got me curious though.. I > wonder how your physical body would feel in your astral hands?? The first few times I got OOB, the times where I just floated around the room, I had no problems looking at my body, for some reason. I guess I didn't even think it was strange at the time, so I wasn't jerked back. :-) I know there are times when I get half out and can go no further, for whatever reasons, so I'm going to try moving my physical body then. Robert Monroe had a real good time playing around with his physical body while he was astral. He said it felt exactly like what it should feel like. :-) That is, what it feels like physically. Actually, I think I have felt my body on top of me at one stage, but I'm not sure if it was me or some other entity. It just felt like a body. :-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:28:43 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 97 Message-ID: <74rf11$6o6@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> References: <366F61BF.4481C1FC@visi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh42-31.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Dec 11 7:50:57 AM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news "David Simpkiss" wrote in message ... >I was suffering from >sleep deprivation and would go to sleep at lunchtime for a while. Excellent time to practice. That's when I did it in the Navy. Of course, we had a 2 hour lunch break every day... >I felt that I was floating out of my body and after a while I >experimented doing a few twists and turns. I tried to "see" if the room >looked the same as it did in real life but this was difficult to do and >things were a very hazy and unclear. The main sensation I got was one of >weightlessness and I enjoyed this sensation. Finally I would relax >completely and find myself floating backwards with my feet going up into >the air and my head going down. This reverse somersalt felt great but it >always ended by me floating back into my body. > >These are the sensations I experienced. It was not like a flying dream >because I actually felt seperated from my body and hence, the floating >back into it. It was only when I got the sensation of the backward >somersalt into my body that I realised that I had appeared to have been >seperate from it. > >So was this an OBE. Personally I doubt that it was. Perhaps it was a >special kind of lucid dream. Perhaps I just FELT like I was out of my >body. I wouldn't call this an OBE myself. Many in this group would consider it an OBE. >My sister (now dead) did once >have what could be described as a genuine OBE. She was having a >difficult labour giving birth and then she remembered looking across the >delivery room at a woman in labour and thinking, "That poor woman" and >then she realised that the woman was herself. She saw a brilliant light >that was very, very bright but didn't hurt her eyes (her words). It's amazing how many women have an NDE during childbirth. >She felt that she could easily just disappear into the light and leave >this world but then she looked back at herself and saw that she had given >birth to a daughter and so she decided to stay here. Perhaps this is a >genuine OBE. Perhaps but we cannot know for sure. > >In my original post, using the name A. Sceptic I did say that I thought >that OBEs are just dreams. I'll rephrase that. I think that what most >people call OBEs are a special kind of lucid dream. But perhaps there >really is an OBE where the person is half way between life and death. >This is one area I have looked at quite alot, particularly in light of >what happened to my sister. Thanks for your time. > > ¶ David Simpkiss ¶ (A. Sceptic.) > djulian@cix.compulink.co.uk I have to agree that a lot of "OBEs" related in this newsgroup would be better classified as lucid dreams while discussing them in another newsgroup. They are so full of individual projections that it's difficult to find any reason to suspect something beyond a dream. But then, some people think that any separation of consciousness from the physical would fall under the category of OBE. To me, it's not all that important. They are all "out-of-physical" states of consciousness. Even a number of great mystics I've read about do not clearly indicate that they take a firm stand that one actually leaves the body. More than one has made the comment, "Whether in the body or out of the body, I do not know..." But they do make firm statements like, "Multiplied", and, "Elongated personality". They also seem to have a complete disregard for many of the physical laws of nature we all take for granted - as though they have an entirely different view of what reality is all about. Having a major focus on their image of God, this brings them to an understanding that, with God, anything is possible - within God, they are omnipresent. They live their life this way, and it becomes so... Time and space are no longer a limiting factor for them - so the body is not the creator of consciousness, but more like something that has grown around them - a visual effect. I think it is safest to look at the OBE as one of many various states of consciousness - which would include the physical. The shift in consciousness that your sister experienced was forced on her. It seems that when this happens, much of the personally projected imagery does not accompany the individual - but it does come along when a person intentionally shifts their consciousness via meditation and certain drugs. There is also the train of thought which finds us on various "planes" of existance. A lucid dream is not as clear as OBE. Some would say that, while lucid dreaming, we are subject to our immediate thoughts and emotions which spring up around us as visual imagery. But, while OBE, what we see is less personal thought-form and more universal for everyone. These could be viewed as two completely different states, or they could be closely related states, or even identical - differing only by the individual ability to see beyond one's own personal illusions. Bart ###### Message-ID: <3670E798.13DA6995@netparadise.no> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 10:36:25 +0100 From: Lars Foleide X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: oobe-ing close to the physical plane? References: <01be2062$cc38a220$0c0000c0@dave> <366B1D4A.2126@geocities.com> <74hqr4$k7m$1@uranium.btinternet.com> <366CB1F8.CE12F631@visi.net> <74njeq$8bb$1@mendelevium.btinternet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p5.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t2o204p5.telia.com Lines: 83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.online.no!uninett.no!newsfeed1.telia.no!d2o204.telia.com!t2o204p5.telia.com I HAVEN'T SAID THAT!!! In my opinion is a real out of body experience an experiences where you project into the physical world. Energy is leaving your body and stay in our very real physical reality. But such a projection is very difficult and needs good control over your mind and energy. You need enough energy and you need control over you mind so that you subconscious doesn't start playing around. Without this control does the projection quickly fall into a "normal" astral projection where things that are not suppose to be there pop up. And with too little energy will not the projection last that long either... The key is to _completely_ relax your body, without falling asleep, and do some energy work with your chakras. But that is not what astral projection is all about. You can also enter higher planes, see other world... like finding paradise or something... But once you leave the physical plane have you no way of knowing what is your imagination or not. Except in those cases where you visit another world that stayes the same each time you visit. It is difficult to keep the imagination at zero in such a state. I have recently been reading Robert Bruce (I can't bring myself to understand why I haven't done that before). But that guy is great, he is teaching real astral projection. Where you project into the physical realm and if something is not right, then you are loosing control over you mind. I did also start practicing OOBE 3 days ago, in combination with some new PSI training program I have started practicing. What Robert Bruce says makes a lot of sense to me, and I have realized that the key is relaxation. So 3 days I tried that tensing and relaxing of your muscles all over your body and I really became quite relaxed. When you reach that totally relaxed feeling can you start doing mental energy work. Wait for the vibrations and buzzing, and try not to fall asleep. Once I get control over my energy and hopefully manage to start seeing this energy will the ball start rolling. That is when the fun starts... Anyway, Robert Bruce is great... He has so many great theories on everything. And he has also managed to communicate with his physical body while out. It seems that they have both a mind of their own. I'm doing a lot of reading on OOBE right now before I start on the FAQ. Cheers, Lars A Sceptic wrote: > And you wonder why I'm sceptical? I see a major contradiction here. > First we have you, John Garrison, saying that you saw your untidy room > just as it was in real life and your friend walking through a wall and > seeing your mother in a different room. OK fine, I'll accept that as a > possibility or not. But then we haveLan and Lars saying that you don't > actually see the physical world when OOB but see a kind of etheric astral > world. > > Well does that mean that in this astral world there's an untidy room > exactly like John's and an astral mother working in an astral kitchen, > all remarkably and by a most amazing coincidence, exactly the same as the > real thing? > > Err, something's not quite right here. John, your friend either walked > through a wall and saw your mother or didn't. Now I find that pretty > impossible to believe but if it happened and was proven to be the case, > I'd have to accept it. > > But a kind of parallel astral universe? Come on now...