From: sterno@bigbrother.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 10:07:03 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 45 Message-ID: <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.68.128.31 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Dec 04 10:07:03 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x2.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 206.68.128.31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!feeder.qis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail > It's really not the sleep issue. The sleep issue is the side-effect of this > happening to me. It's not that I don't want to have an obe because I'd > rather sleep....it's that I don't want to have an obe and so I'm not > sleeping due to fighting it. I am fighting obe for other reasons, it's just > the lack of sleep is the toll the fight is taking on me. Well, I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. It seems that your lifestyle, and general health aren't having a whole lot of effect on this. You just seem to have an inate ability to do this. Okay, I've got a couple ideas left but I will admit I'm rather a bit stumped (of course I'm fairly new to this so some others may be able to provide more insight). The first thought I have is that maybe using brain wave manipulation techniques might help. There is a piece of software out there called "cool wave" which can help you generate certain brain wave patterns. The way it works is pretty nifty but the end result is that you can develop programs to help you accomplish certain mental states which might be more difficult to reach ordinarily. There are four primary brain wave states, alpha, beta, theta, and delta. Beta is awake and alert, alpha and theta are in the transition between beta and delta, and delta is deep sleep. Most people here that use the software are trying to attain alpha and theta states, but it could just as easily be used to try to get to a delta state quickly. So what you might want to try doing is putting on a pair of headphones when you go to bed and use cool wave and see if you can get some results. My second suggestion is that you try to do some research on grounding techniques. I don't know enough about the subject to be of much use to you, but some others on the group, or possibly some books, could provide more useful info. Other than that I can't think of very much else you can do. I would like to ask, but feel free not to answer if its personal, but why are you so against the idea of having an OBE? That would be the only other option I can think of; to deal with your reasons for not having an OBE, and then having one. Well, good luck to you! And our irony moment for the day is that I'm writing this at 4 am, just having woken up to try to have an OBE myself :) ---Steve -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 17:54:20 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 98 Message-ID: <74a5d4$mol$2@supernews.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.121 X-Trace: 912824549 I0G4.QBCE5F79CF30C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!SupernewsUK!supernews.com!SnNA!Supernews69!not-for-mail Dave if you are still there. . . I have heard a Acupuncturist claim that she could stop OOBE from happening. She claims to be able to effect the levels of a certain chemical in the brain that will inhibit the effects of the experience. Not sure if you have access to acupuncturists. Maybe there are some on the web that could advise you on how to stop this. What ever your reasons, I understand that this certainly is not for everybody. Good luck. . -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >Thanks for all of that advise. I will look into trying to discover more >about grounding techniques. hehehe I may hit the library soon and see what >turns up. >As far as why I don't want to have an OBE... it is not a personal question, >but I refrain from answering only because I didn't seek this group out to >start a debate on the pros and cons of OBE. I just have my personal reasons >for not wanting to do so. I have just seen so many ng's on a variety of >subjects....and one question leads to another and another and then before >long everyone in the ng is arguing over something that is so completely off >base from its origination that everyone is frustrated. So I don't want to >be responsible for this type of "off-subject" threading :))) >Thanks again for all of your help :)) >David > >-- >David Orcutt >http://www.theballroomco.com >sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >> >>Well, I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. It seems that your >>lifestyle, and general health aren't having a whole lot of effect on this. >>You just seem to have an inate ability to do this. Okay, I've got a couple >>ideas left but I will admit I'm rather a bit stumped (of course I'm fairly >>new to this so some others may be able to provide more insight). >> >>The first thought I have is that maybe using brain wave manipulation >>techniques might help. There is a piece of software out there called "cool >>wave" which can help you generate certain brain wave patterns. The way it >>works is pretty nifty but the end result is that you can develop programs >to >>help you accomplish certain mental states which might be more difficult to >>reach ordinarily. >> >>There are four primary brain wave states, alpha, beta, theta, and delta. >>Beta is awake and alert, alpha and theta are in the transition between beta >>and delta, and delta is deep sleep. Most people here that use the software >>are trying to attain alpha and theta states, but it could just as easily be >>used to try to get to a delta state quickly. So what you might want to try >>doing is putting on a pair of headphones when you go to bed and use cool >wave >>and see if you can get some results. >> >>My second suggestion is that you try to do some research on grounding >>techniques. I don't know enough about the subject to be of much use to >you, >>but some others on the group, or possibly some books, could provide more >>useful info. >> >>Other than that I can't think of very much else you can do. I would like >to >>ask, but feel free not to answer if its personal, but why are you so >against >>the idea of having an OBE? That would be the only other option I can think >>of; to deal with your reasons for not having an OBE, and then having one. >> >>Well, good luck to you! And our irony moment for the day is that I'm >writing >>this at 4 am, just having woken up to try to have an OBE myself :) >> >>---Steve >> >>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > > ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 65 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.49 X-Trace: news12.ispnews.com 912813673 207.40.100.49 (Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:21:13 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 18:21:13 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Fri, 4 Dec 1998 18:25:34 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.44.33.119!hub1.ispnews.com!news12.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Thanks for all of that advise. I will look into trying to discover more about grounding techniques. hehehe I may hit the library soon and see what turns up. As far as why I don't want to have an OBE... it is not a personal question, but I refrain from answering only because I didn't seek this group out to start a debate on the pros and cons of OBE. I just have my personal reasons for not wanting to do so. I have just seen so many ng's on a variety of subjects....and one question leads to another and another and then before long everyone in the ng is arguing over something that is so completely off base from its origination that everyone is frustrated. So I don't want to be responsible for this type of "off-subject" threading :))) Thanks again for all of your help :)) David -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > >Well, I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. It seems that your >lifestyle, and general health aren't having a whole lot of effect on this. >You just seem to have an inate ability to do this. Okay, I've got a couple >ideas left but I will admit I'm rather a bit stumped (of course I'm fairly >new to this so some others may be able to provide more insight). > >The first thought I have is that maybe using brain wave manipulation >techniques might help. There is a piece of software out there called "cool >wave" which can help you generate certain brain wave patterns. The way it >works is pretty nifty but the end result is that you can develop programs to >help you accomplish certain mental states which might be more difficult to >reach ordinarily. > >There are four primary brain wave states, alpha, beta, theta, and delta. >Beta is awake and alert, alpha and theta are in the transition between beta >and delta, and delta is deep sleep. Most people here that use the software >are trying to attain alpha and theta states, but it could just as easily be >used to try to get to a delta state quickly. So what you might want to try >doing is putting on a pair of headphones when you go to bed and use cool wave >and see if you can get some results. > >My second suggestion is that you try to do some research on grounding >techniques. I don't know enough about the subject to be of much use to you, >but some others on the group, or possibly some books, could provide more >useful info. > >Other than that I can't think of very much else you can do. I would like to >ask, but feel free not to answer if its personal, but why are you so against >the idea of having an OBE? That would be the only other option I can think >of; to deal with your reasons for not having an OBE, and then having one. > >Well, good luck to you! And our irony moment for the day is that I'm writing >this at 4 am, just having woken up to try to have an OBE myself :) > >---Steve > >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74a5d4$mol$2@supernews.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 116 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: <8b3a2.615$04.948@news15.ispnews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.64 X-Trace: news15.ispnews.com 912834372 207.40.100.64 (Sat, 05 Dec 1998 00:06:12 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 00:06:12 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 00:10:30 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!news15.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Thank you Richard :))) I will definately keep that in mind! You guys have all been so great with offering advice to me :)))) I really really do appreciate it :) David -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com Richard wrote in message <74a5d4$mol$2@supernews.com>... >Dave if you are still there. . . I have heard a Acupuncturist claim that she >could stop OOBE from happening. She claims to be able to effect the levels >of a certain chemical in the brain that will inhibit the effects of the >experience. Not sure if you have access to acupuncturists. Maybe there are >some on the web that could advise you on how to stop this. What ever your >reasons, I understand that this certainly is not for everybody. >Good luck. . > >-- >RBWalton > >Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ > >To respond, delete #nospam# >rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com > > > > > >David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >>Thanks for all of that advise. I will look into trying to discover more >>about grounding techniques. hehehe I may hit the library soon and see >what >>turns up. >>As far as why I don't want to have an OBE... it is not a personal >question, >>but I refrain from answering only because I didn't seek this group out to >>start a debate on the pros and cons of OBE. I just have my personal >reasons >>for not wanting to do so. I have just seen so many ng's on a variety of >>subjects....and one question leads to another and another and then before >>long everyone in the ng is arguing over something that is so completely off >>base from its origination that everyone is frustrated. So I don't want to >>be responsible for this type of "off-subject" threading :))) >>Thanks again for all of your help :)) >>David >> >>-- >>David Orcutt >>http://www.theballroomco.com >>sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >>> >>>Well, I'm not sure what to tell you at this point. It seems that your >>>lifestyle, and general health aren't having a whole lot of effect on this. >>>You just seem to have an inate ability to do this. Okay, I've got a >couple >>>ideas left but I will admit I'm rather a bit stumped (of course I'm fairly >>>new to this so some others may be able to provide more insight). >>> >>>The first thought I have is that maybe using brain wave manipulation >>>techniques might help. There is a piece of software out there called "cool >>>wave" which can help you generate certain brain wave patterns. The way it >>>works is pretty nifty but the end result is that you can develop programs >>to >>>help you accomplish certain mental states which might be more difficult to >>>reach ordinarily. >>> >>>There are four primary brain wave states, alpha, beta, theta, and delta. >>>Beta is awake and alert, alpha and theta are in the transition between >beta >>>and delta, and delta is deep sleep. Most people here that use the >software >>>are trying to attain alpha and theta states, but it could just as easily >be >>>used to try to get to a delta state quickly. So what you might want to >try >>>doing is putting on a pair of headphones when you go to bed and use cool >>wave >>>and see if you can get some results. >>> >>>My second suggestion is that you try to do some research on grounding >>>techniques. I don't know enough about the subject to be of much use to >>you, >>>but some others on the group, or possibly some books, could provide more >>>useful info. >>> >>>Other than that I can't think of very much else you can do. I would like >>to >>>ask, but feel free not to answer if its personal, but why are you so >>against >>>the idea of having an OBE? That would be the only other option I can >think >>>of; to deal with your reasons for not having an OBE, and then having one. >>> >>>Well, good luck to you! And our irony moment for the day is that I'm >>writing >>>this at 4 am, just having woken up to try to have an OBE myself :) >>> >>>---Steve >>> >>>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >>>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own >> >> > > ###### From: sterno@bigbrother.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 17:20:16 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 18 Message-ID: <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.68.128.31 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Dec 05 17:20:16 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x11.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 206.68.128.31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail > As far as why I don't want to have an OBE... it is not a personal question, > but I refrain from answering only because I didn't seek this group out to > start a debate on the pros and cons of OBE. I just have my personal reasons > for not wanting to do so. I have just seen so many ng's on a variety of > subjects....and one question leads to another and another and then before > long everyone in the ng is arguing over something that is so completely off > base from its origination that everyone is frustrated. So I don't want to > be responsible for this type of "off-subject" threading :))) > Thanks again for all of your help :)) But isn't that what newsgroups are for??? :) Well, I hope you get things worked out! ---Steve -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 34 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.35 X-Trace: news3.ispnews.com 912913384 207.40.100.35 (Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:03:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:03:04 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Sat, 5 Dec 1998 22:07:25 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.44.33.119!hub1.ispnews.com!news3.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to me, I really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no purpose except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread :))) David :) -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > >> As far as why I don't want to have an OBE... it is not a personal question, >> but I refrain from answering only because I didn't seek this group out to >> start a debate on the pros and cons of OBE. I just have my personal reasons >> for not wanting to do so. I have just seen so many ng's on a variety of >> subjects....and one question leads to another and another and then before >> long everyone in the ng is arguing over something that is so completely off >> base from its origination that everyone is frustrated. So I don't want to >> be responsible for this type of "off-subject" threading :))) >> Thanks again for all of your help :)) > >But isn't that what newsgroups are for??? :) Well, I hope you get things >worked out! > >---Steve > >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### Message-ID: <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> From: The Original Ken Organization: As disorganized as possible X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:50:49 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.203.136.195 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 913010078 208.203.136.195 (Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:54:38 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Dec 1998 22:54:38 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail David, Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you want to see happen, then your are entitled :) I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave you alone (more or less). Good luck Ken David J. Orcutt wrote: > > LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to me, I > really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no purpose > except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my > appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread :))) > David :) > > -- > David Orcutt > http://www.theballroomco.com > sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 67 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.35 X-Trace: news3.ispnews.com 913016874 207.40.100.35 (Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:47:54 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 02:47:54 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 02:52:17 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!hub1.ispnews.com!news3.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Well, if you must know it is in accordance with my faith that I do not want to have OBE. But remember, I specifically tried to avoid this thread....and will not participate in a defense of the things I believe. I do not believe OBE's are spiritually healthy, yet I did not come in here and start telling ppl that I think they should avoid them. What everyone does is of course their own choice, just as my desire to avoid OBE is mine :) So, I thank you for your advice on how to prevent them, however, the 2nd choice is not an option for me :))) I will just have to continue fighting it until I win :) So please, in case anyone wants to start a discussion on different beliefs, it is my own choice not to have it, but it is not my intention to stop anyone else who is perfectly content with it :) Thanks for the advice :) David -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >David, > >Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not >wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you >want to see happen, then your are entitled :) > >I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop >this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for >good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. > >The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >you alone (more or less). > >Good luck > >Ken > >David J. Orcutt wrote: >> >> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to me, I >> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no purpose >> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread :))) >> David :) >> >> -- >> David Orcutt >> http://www.theballroomco.com >> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: 08 Dec 1998 00:14:09 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 59 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "David J. Orcutt" writes: > > Well, if you must know it is in accordance with my faith that I do not want > to have OBE. So you are in an tight situation. It is always good to know such constraints when answering someones question. If only to avoid giving useless advice. > But remember, I specifically tried to avoid this thread.... Sure. But even if you had stated that there is an belief problem, this would have had no adverse effect. In the worst case your post would have simply been ignored. It takes an actual assault on OBE (such as the "crazy" posts to get people to flame you. > ppl that I think they should avoid them. What everyone does is of course > their own choice, just as my desire to avoid OBE is mine :) And with that point of voew you are entirely safe here. > So, I thank you for your advice on how to prevent them, however, the 2nd > choice is not an option for me :))) May I suggest an most likely useless advice: change your belief system. I wa up to about 3 years ago an complete skeptic and regarded all this parapsychic stuff as crap and delusion. After reading more about it I had to change my beliefs to fit it in. The critical ingredient in successfully changing beliefs was to analyse where beliefs come from, how different people arrive at theirs and to recognize, that it is largly just historical accident, and as such the particular case any person has can not be logically defended. So I dropped my then rigid beliefs and adopted an wait and see approch. So far that has been an full success. > I will just have to continue fighting it until I win :) Or loose. Perhaps by breaking on the contradictions. > So please, in case anyone wants to start a discussion on > different beliefs, it is my own choice not to have it, but it is not my > intention to stop anyone else who is perfectly content with it :) Or an discussion of where people derive their beliefs from. We have not had that one yet. -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ "No, it was a JOKE! You can't RUN this!" Ken Thompson ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 18:32:21 -0800 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 86 Message-ID: <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.87 X-Trace: 913085659 I0G4.QBCE5F57CF30C usenet76.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!SupernewsUK!supernews.com!SnNA!Supernews69!not-for-mail I agree. The intensity of this experience was very strong in the beginning for me too. Looking back on it it does seem that in the early going , the more I fought it the stronger it tried to get me to give in. An acupuncturist told me OOBE is caused by imbalance of some type of dopamine in the brain. Maybe having OOBE causes the production of a stabilizer for the out of balance amounts of dopamine naturally. That might account for the long dry spells followed by brief flurries of OOB activity. An aside. . . off topic follows. . . (This is not to imply that I believe OOBE is not a real thing. I sometimes wonder at how real it is. . . But I have had enough experiences that validate it for me. And coming from a person with no religious upbringing or beliefs *before* this started happening to me, it is interesting how the experience can alter your view of life in a good way. ) What if all this is the result of a chemical imbalance trying to "right" itself? Same arguments I have seen and had since early study of physiology. . . Does a chemical reaction cause the thought? or does the thought cause the chemical reaction? Does the OOBE cause the imbalance of dopamine, or the imbalance of dopamine cause the OOBE? -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >David, > >Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not >wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you >want to see happen, then your are entitled :) > >I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop >this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for >good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. > >The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >you alone (more or less). > >Good luck > >Ken > >David J. Orcutt wrote: >> >> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to me, I >> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no purpose >> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread :))) >> David :) >> >> -- >> David Orcutt >> http://www.theballroomco.com >> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 78 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.64 X-Trace: news13.ispnews.com 913186871 207.40.100.64 (Wed, 09 Dec 1998 02:01:11 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 02:01:11 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:05:29 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!news13.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Sorry it took me so long to respond... I just got out of the hospital tonight :( Anyway, in regards to your post.... if I just simply chose to change my beliefs, then my beliefs would have no conviction. But you see? Even though I have not flamed anyone, I am already being called rigid. This is the thread I sought to avoid, and will :) As far as thinking this stuff is crap, I have never thought parapsychology to be be crap. If I did then there would be no reason for me to want to avoid it. I do not need a "Wait and see what happens" belief because I believe that parapsychology is all that ppl say it is. But it isn't for me :) And won't be, and I won't change my beliefs so that I can fit it in. -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com Neil Franklin wrote in message ... >"David J. Orcutt" writes: >> >> Well, if you must know it is in accordance with my faith that I do not want >> to have OBE. > >So you are in an tight situation. It is always good to know such >constraints when answering someones question. If only to avoid giving >useless advice. > > >> But remember, I specifically tried to avoid this thread.... > >Sure. But even if you had stated that there is an belief problem, this >would have had no adverse effect. In the worst case your post would >have simply been ignored. It takes an actual assault on OBE (such as >the "crazy" posts to get people to flame you. > > >> ppl that I think they should avoid them. What everyone does is of course >> their own choice, just as my desire to avoid OBE is mine :) > >And with that point of voew you are entirely safe here. > > >> So, I thank you for your advice on how to prevent them, however, the 2nd >> choice is not an option for me :))) > >May I suggest an most likely useless advice: change your belief system. > >I wa up to about 3 years ago an complete skeptic and regarded all this >parapsychic stuff as crap and delusion. After reading more about it I >had to change my beliefs to fit it in. > >The critical ingredient in successfully changing beliefs was to >analyse where beliefs come from, how different people arrive at theirs >and to recognize, that it is largly just historical accident, and as >such the particular case any person has can not be logically defended. > >So I dropped my then rigid beliefs and adopted an wait and see >approch. So far that has been an full success. > > >> I will just have to continue fighting it until I win :) > >Or loose. Perhaps by breaking on the contradictions. > > >> So please, in case anyone wants to start a discussion on >> different beliefs, it is my own choice not to have it, but it is not my >> intention to stop anyone else who is perfectly content with it :) > >Or an discussion of where people derive their beliefs from. We have >not had that one yet. > > >-- >Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Guru, Hacker, Mystic >neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ >"No, it was a JOKE! You can't RUN this!" Ken Thompson ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 103 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.64 X-Trace: news13.ispnews.com 913187110 207.40.100.64 (Wed, 09 Dec 1998 02:05:10 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 02:05:10 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 02:09:13 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!howland.erols.net!hub1.ispnews.com!news13.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com Richard wrote in message <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com>... >I agree. The intensity of this experience was very strong in the beginning >for me too. Looking back on it it does seem that in the early going , the >more I fought it the stronger it tried to get me to give in. An >acupuncturist told me OOBE is caused by imbalance of some type of dopamine >in the brain. Maybe having OOBE causes the production of a stabilizer for >the out of balance amounts of dopamine naturally. That might account for >the long dry spells followed by brief flurries of OOB activity. > >An aside. . . off topic follows. . . >(This is not to imply that I believe OOBE is not a real thing. I sometimes >wonder at how real it is. . . But I have had enough experiences that >validate it for me. And coming from a person with no religious upbringing >or beliefs *before* this started happening to me, it is interesting how the >experience can alter your view of life in a good way. ) Don't get me wrong Richard, I'm not saying that OOBE is not a real thing. I happen to believe it is very very real, otherwise I would not be trying so hard not to have it. I however do have a system of beliefs, and my family has a history of spiritual struggles that have, most often, not been positive confrontations with the spiritual realm. Again, adding more fuel to why I avoid such situations. > >What if all this is the result of a chemical imbalance trying to "right" >itself? Same arguments I have seen and had since early study of physiology. >. . Does a chemical reaction cause the thought? or does the thought cause >the chemical reaction? Does the OOBE cause the imbalance of dopamine, or >the imbalance of dopamine cause the OOBE? > > > >-- >RBWalton > >Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ > >To respond, delete #nospam# >rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com > > > > > >The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >>David, >> >>Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not >>wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >>all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >>Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >>the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you >>want to see happen, then your are entitled :) >> >>I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop >>this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >>time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >>only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >>experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >>ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for >>good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >>years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >>returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >>haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. >> >>The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >>Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >>couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >>occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >>something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >>not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >>you alone (more or less). >> >>Good luck >> >>Ken >> >>David J. Orcutt wrote: >>> >>> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to me, >I >>> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no purpose >>> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >>> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread >:))) >>> David :) >>> >>> -- >>> David Orcutt >>> http://www.theballroomco.com >>> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message ><74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > > ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 13:01:53 -0800 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 135 Message-ID: <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.42 X-Trace: 913237027 I0G4.QBCE5F2ACF30C usenet54.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!btnet-peer!btnet!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!SupernewsUK!supernews.com!SnNA!Supernews69!not-for-mail Dave. .. It was not a shot toward you. There are other posters around who have asked before why we go through this. . . I have been thinking a lot about that recently. This comment was just meant as what it was in general. When it gets down to it, I doubt many here would go for everything I believe about OOBEs. I do not intend to change any of that. I just wonder sometimes why anyone would want this experience. It was not my favorite thing in the beginning. -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... > > >-- >David Orcutt >http://www.theballroomco.com >Richard wrote in message <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com>... >>I agree. The intensity of this experience was very strong in the beginning >>for me too. Looking back on it it does seem that in the early going , the >>more I fought it the stronger it tried to get me to give in. An >>acupuncturist told me OOBE is caused by imbalance of some type of dopamine >>in the brain. Maybe having OOBE causes the production of a stabilizer for >>the out of balance amounts of dopamine naturally. That might account for >>the long dry spells followed by brief flurries of OOB activity. >> >>An aside. . . off topic follows. . . >>(This is not to imply that I believe OOBE is not a real thing. I sometimes >>wonder at how real it is. . . But I have had enough experiences that >>validate it for me. And coming from a person with no religious upbringing >>or beliefs *before* this started happening to me, it is interesting how the >>experience can alter your view of life in a good way. ) > >Don't get me wrong Richard, I'm not saying that OOBE is not a real thing. I >happen to believe it is very very real, otherwise I would not be trying so >hard not to have it. I however do have a system of beliefs, and my family >has a history of spiritual struggles that have, most often, not been >positive confrontations with the spiritual realm. Again, adding more fuel to >why I avoid such situations. >> >>What if all this is the result of a chemical imbalance trying to "right" >>itself? Same arguments I have seen and had since early study of >physiology. >>. . Does a chemical reaction cause the thought? or does the thought cause >>the chemical reaction? Does the OOBE cause the imbalance of dopamine, or >>the imbalance of dopamine cause the OOBE? >> >> >> >>-- >>RBWalton >> >>Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >>www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >> >>To respond, delete #nospam# >>rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com >> >> >> >> >> >>The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >>>David, >>> >>>Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not >>>wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >>>all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >>>Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >>>the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you >>>want to see happen, then your are entitled :) >>> >>>I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop >>>this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >>>time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >>>only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >>>experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >>>ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for >>>good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >>>years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >>>returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >>>haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. >>> >>>The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >>>Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >>>couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >>>occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >>>something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >>>not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >>>you alone (more or less). >>> >>>Good luck >>> >>>Ken >>> >>>David J. Orcutt wrote: >>>> >>>> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to me, >>I >>>> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no >purpose >>>> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >>>> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread >>:))) >>>> David :) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> David Orcutt >>>> http://www.theballroomco.com >>>> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message >><74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >> >> > > ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 154 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.21 X-Trace: news15.ispnews.com 913239796 207.40.100.21 (Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:43:16 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 16:43:16 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 16:47:39 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.nyu.edu!nntp.flash.net!hub1.ispnews.com!news15.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Hi Richard, I understand completely what you meant.... I did not mean to put you in the defensive :) I did not take anything you said as a shot against me, was only just elaborating on what you said in case you suspected that I did not believe OBE was real. Was just re-iterating how real I believe it is :) I'm with you though - it's not the most pleasant of experiences, for me at least :) David -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com Richard wrote in message <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com>... >Dave. .. >It was not a shot toward you. There are other posters around who have asked >before why we go through this. . . I have been thinking a lot about that >recently. This comment was just meant as what it was in general. When it >gets down to it, I doubt many here would go for everything I believe about >OOBEs. I do not intend to change any of that. I just wonder sometimes why >anyone would want this experience. It was not my favorite thing in the >beginning. > >-- >RBWalton > >Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ > >To respond, delete #nospam# >rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com > > > > > >David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >> >> >>-- >>David Orcutt >>http://www.theballroomco.com >>Richard wrote in message <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com>... >>>I agree. The intensity of this experience was very strong in the >beginning >>>for me too. Looking back on it it does seem that in the early going , the >>>more I fought it the stronger it tried to get me to give in. An >>>acupuncturist told me OOBE is caused by imbalance of some type of dopamine >>>in the brain. Maybe having OOBE causes the production of a stabilizer for >>>the out of balance amounts of dopamine naturally. That might account for >>>the long dry spells followed by brief flurries of OOB activity. >>> >>>An aside. . . off topic follows. . . >>>(This is not to imply that I believe OOBE is not a real thing. I >sometimes >>>wonder at how real it is. . . But I have had enough experiences that >>>validate it for me. And coming from a person with no religious >upbringing >>>or beliefs *before* this started happening to me, it is interesting how >the >>>experience can alter your view of life in a good way. ) >> >>Don't get me wrong Richard, I'm not saying that OOBE is not a real thing. >I >>happen to believe it is very very real, otherwise I would not be trying so >>hard not to have it. I however do have a system of beliefs, and my family >>has a history of spiritual struggles that have, most often, not been >>positive confrontations with the spiritual realm. Again, adding more fuel >to >>why I avoid such situations. >>> >>>What if all this is the result of a chemical imbalance trying to "right" >>>itself? Same arguments I have seen and had since early study of >>physiology. >>>. . Does a chemical reaction cause the thought? or does the thought cause >>>the chemical reaction? Does the OOBE cause the imbalance of dopamine, or >>>the imbalance of dopamine cause the OOBE? >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>RBWalton >>> >>>Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >>>www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >>> >>>To respond, delete #nospam# >>>rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >>>>David, >>>> >>>>Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not >>>>wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >>>>all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >>>>Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >>>>the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you >>>>want to see happen, then your are entitled :) >>>> >>>>I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop >>>>this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >>>>time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >>>>only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >>>>experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >>>>ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for >>>>good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >>>>years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >>>>returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >>>>haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. >>>> >>>>The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >>>>Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >>>>couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >>>>occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >>>>something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >>>>not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >>>>you alone (more or less). >>>> >>>>Good luck >>>> >>>>Ken >>>> >>>>David J. Orcutt wrote: >>>>> >>>>> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to >me, >>>I >>>>> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no >>purpose >>>>> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >>>>> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic thread >>>:))) >>>>> David :) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> David Orcutt >>>>> http://www.theballroomco.com >>>>> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message >>><74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >>> >>> >> >> > > ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 17:58:53 -0800 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 204 Message-ID: <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.48 X-Trace: 913257090 I0G4.QBCE5F30CF30C usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed-east.supernews.com!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Dave, and others and lurkers. . . (I did not mean to jump to a defensive stance so soon. . . Sometimes I write without my editor plugged in :-) ) I agree about it not being the most pleasant experience. . . In the beginning I had nights I would just lay there awake instead of trying to get back to sleep. Since then, things are fine. But this was a choice I made to explore what was happening to me. And it took me a long time to get to the point it was not a bad experience. I did not have the benefit of talking to people who were also going through the same thing. You do. But for those thinking OOB experiences might be a neat thing to try. .. . Just be sure you really want this before you get too far into it. Once you start it may not be easy to stop. You have a choice. And I believe it is a very serious choice. Some of us did not have the choice. What ever this really is. . . Read about it. . . Talk to people about how it felt in the beginning. It may not be for you. I am thinking now a days if someone tells you it is no real big deal, maybe what they are experiencing is different. . . at least different from what I, and a few others I have met out here describe. It can shake the foundation of your belief system. It took me most of my life to fully come to accept what it means to me. If you are in a rush to do this. . . maybe you do not have the time it will take you. -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >Hi Richard, >I understand completely what you meant.... I did not mean to put you in the >defensive :) I did not take anything you said as a shot against me, was >only just elaborating on what you said in case you suspected that I did not >believe OBE was real. Was just re-iterating how real I believe it is :) >I'm with you though - it's not the most pleasant of experiences, for me at >least :) >David > >-- >David Orcutt >http://www.theballroomco.com >Richard wrote in message <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com>... >>Dave. .. >>It was not a shot toward you. There are other posters around who have >asked >>before why we go through this. . . I have been thinking a lot about that >>recently. This comment was just meant as what it was in general. When it >>gets down to it, I doubt many here would go for everything I believe about >>OOBEs. I do not intend to change any of that. I just wonder sometimes why >>anyone would want this experience. It was not my favorite thing in the >>beginning. >> >>-- >>RBWalton >> >>Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >>www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >> >>To respond, delete #nospam# >>rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com >> >> >> >> >> >>David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >>> >>> >>>-- >>>David Orcutt >>>http://www.theballroomco.com >>>Richard wrote in message <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com>... >>>>I agree. The intensity of this experience was very strong in the >>beginning >>>>for me too. Looking back on it it does seem that in the early going , the >>>>more I fought it the stronger it tried to get me to give in. An >>>>acupuncturist told me OOBE is caused by imbalance of some type of >dopamine >>>>in the brain. Maybe having OOBE causes the production of a stabilizer >for >>>>the out of balance amounts of dopamine naturally. That might account for >>>>the long dry spells followed by brief flurries of OOB activity. >>>> >>>>An aside. . . off topic follows. . . >>>>(This is not to imply that I believe OOBE is not a real thing. I >>sometimes >>>>wonder at how real it is. . . But I have had enough experiences that >>>>validate it for me. And coming from a person with no religious >>upbringing >>>>or beliefs *before* this started happening to me, it is interesting how >>the >>>>experience can alter your view of life in a good way. ) >>> >>>Don't get me wrong Richard, I'm not saying that OOBE is not a real thing. >>I >>>happen to believe it is very very real, otherwise I would not be trying so >>>hard not to have it. I however do have a system of beliefs, and my family >>>has a history of spiritual struggles that have, most often, not been >>>positive confrontations with the spiritual realm. Again, adding more fuel >>to >>>why I avoid such situations. >>>> >>>>What if all this is the result of a chemical imbalance trying to "right" >>>>itself? Same arguments I have seen and had since early study of >>>physiology. >>>>. . Does a chemical reaction cause the thought? or does the thought cause >>>>the chemical reaction? Does the OOBE cause the imbalance of dopamine, or >>>>the imbalance of dopamine cause the OOBE? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>RBWalton >>>> >>>>Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >>>>www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >>>> >>>>To respond, delete #nospam# >>>>rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >>>>>David, >>>>> >>>>>Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for not >>>>>wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >>>>>all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >>>>>Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >>>>>the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what you >>>>>want to see happen, then your are entitled :) >>>>> >>>>>I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to stop >>>>>this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >>>>>time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >>>>>only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >>>>>experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >>>>>ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up for >>>>>good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >>>>>years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >>>>>returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >>>>>haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. >>>>> >>>>>The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >>>>>Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >>>>>couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >>>>>occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >>>>>something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >>>>>not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >>>>>you alone (more or less). >>>>> >>>>>Good luck >>>>> >>>>>Ken >>>>> >>>>>David J. Orcutt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to >>me, >>>>I >>>>>> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no >>>purpose >>>>>> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >>>>>> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic >thread >>>>:))) >>>>>> David :) >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> David Orcutt >>>>>> http://www.theballroomco.com >>>>>> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message >>>><74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ###### From: "David J. Orcutt" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Lines: 227 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.40.100.65 X-Trace: news15.ispnews.com 913268426 207.40.100.65 (Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:40:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:40:26 EDT Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 00:44:51 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!news15.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail An excellent statement on all counts! Bravo! :) -- David Orcutt http://www.theballroomco.com Richard wrote in message <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com>... >Dave, and others and lurkers. . . >(I did not mean to jump to a defensive stance so soon. . . Sometimes I write >without my editor plugged in :-) ) > > I agree about it not being the most pleasant experience. . . In the >beginning I had nights I would just lay there awake instead of trying to get >back to sleep. Since then, things are fine. But this was a choice I made >to explore what was happening to me. And it took me a long time to get to >the point it was not a bad experience. I did not have the benefit of >talking to people who were also going through the same thing. You do. > But for those thinking OOB experiences might be a neat thing to try. .. . >Just be sure you really want this before you get too far into it. Once you >start it may not be easy to stop. You have a choice. And I believe it is a >very serious choice. Some of us did not have the choice. What ever this >really is. . . Read about it. . . Talk to people about how it felt in the >beginning. It may not be for you. I am thinking now a days if someone >tells you it is no real big deal, maybe what they are experiencing is >different. . . at least different from what I, and a few others I have met >out here describe. It can shake the foundation of your belief system. It >took me most of my life to fully come to accept what it means to me. If you >are in a rush to do this. . . maybe you do not have the time it will take >you. > >-- >RBWalton > >Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ > >To respond, delete #nospam# >rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com > > > > > >David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >>Hi Richard, >>I understand completely what you meant.... I did not mean to put you in the >>defensive :) I did not take anything you said as a shot against me, was >>only just elaborating on what you said in case you suspected that I did not >>believe OBE was real. Was just re-iterating how real I believe it is :) >>I'm with you though - it's not the most pleasant of experiences, for me at >>least :) >>David >> >>-- >>David Orcutt >>http://www.theballroomco.com >>Richard wrote in message <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com>... >>>Dave. .. >>>It was not a shot toward you. There are other posters around who have >>asked >>>before why we go through this. . . I have been thinking a lot about that >>>recently. This comment was just meant as what it was in general. When it >>>gets down to it, I doubt many here would go for everything I believe about >>>OOBEs. I do not intend to change any of that. I just wonder sometimes >why >>>anyone would want this experience. It was not my favorite thing in the >>>beginning. >>> >>>-- >>>RBWalton >>> >>>Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >>>www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >>> >>>To respond, delete #nospam# >>>rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>David J. Orcutt wrote in message ... >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>David Orcutt >>>>http://www.theballroomco.com >>>>Richard wrote in message <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com>... >>>>>I agree. The intensity of this experience was very strong in the >>>beginning >>>>>for me too. Looking back on it it does seem that in the early going , >the >>>>>more I fought it the stronger it tried to get me to give in. An >>>>>acupuncturist told me OOBE is caused by imbalance of some type of >>dopamine >>>>>in the brain. Maybe having OOBE causes the production of a stabilizer >>for >>>>>the out of balance amounts of dopamine naturally. That might account >for >>>>>the long dry spells followed by brief flurries of OOB activity. >>>>> >>>>>An aside. . . off topic follows. . . >>>>>(This is not to imply that I believe OOBE is not a real thing. I >>>sometimes >>>>>wonder at how real it is. . . But I have had enough experiences that >>>>>validate it for me. And coming from a person with no religious >>>upbringing >>>>>or beliefs *before* this started happening to me, it is interesting how >>>the >>>>>experience can alter your view of life in a good way. ) >>>> >>>>Don't get me wrong Richard, I'm not saying that OOBE is not a real thing. >>>I >>>>happen to believe it is very very real, otherwise I would not be trying >so >>>>hard not to have it. I however do have a system of beliefs, and my >family >>>>has a history of spiritual struggles that have, most often, not been >>>>positive confrontations with the spiritual realm. Again, adding more fuel >>>to >>>>why I avoid such situations. >>>>> >>>>>What if all this is the result of a chemical imbalance trying to "right" >>>>>itself? Same arguments I have seen and had since early study of >>>>physiology. >>>>>. . Does a chemical reaction cause the thought? or does the thought >cause >>>>>the chemical reaction? Does the OOBE cause the imbalance of dopamine, >or >>>>>the imbalance of dopamine cause the OOBE? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>RBWalton >>>>> >>>>>Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >>>>>www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >>>>> >>>>>To respond, delete #nospam# >>>>>rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The Original Ken wrote in message <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com>... >>>>>>David, >>>>>> >>>>>>Really wish you would just dive and and tell us all your reasons for >not >>>>>>wanting an OBE. The suspense is killing us all and soon we will just >>>>>>all shut off our monitors and do something more relaxing like watch Die >>>>>>Hard on the boob tube all over again. This of course would result in >>>>>>the NG drying up like a puddle in the desert, but hey if that's what >you >>>>>>want to see happen, then your are entitled :) >>>>>> >>>>>>I am really posting just to let you know that there are two ways to >stop >>>>>>this thing for you. One is to keep fighting it as you have been. Over >>>>>>time the frequency will die out and eventually (about 2 years) you will >>>>>>only have 1 or 2 episode a year if that. I am telling you this from >>>>>>experience because that is exactly what I did for a few years some time >>>>>>ago. I had a bad OBE experience one time and I wanted to give it up >for >>>>>>good. So I just fought the sensations and it took a good couple of >>>>>>years to get it out of my blood. Fortunately my sense of adventure >>>>>>returned and I got back into it again and I'm happy to say that I >>>>>>haven't had a bummer trip since. It's all been quite pleasant. >>>>>> >>>>>>The second method is to go ahead and have yourself a full blown OBE. >>>>>>Pull all the stops. You may have to have a few OBE's in the first >>>>>>couple of weeks, but then it will probably settle in to a once a month >>>>>>occurance instead of this nightly fight. It seems that an OBE is >>>>>>something that your mind demands you experience whether you want it or >>>>>>not, and if you submit, then it will be quite happy and it will leave >>>>>>you alone (more or less). >>>>>> >>>>>>Good luck >>>>>> >>>>>>Ken >>>>>> >>>>>>David J. Orcutt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> LOL, I guess so....it's just that as helpful as you all have been to >>>me, >>>>>I >>>>>>> really don't want to start an off-topic thread that will serve no >>>>purpose >>>>>>> except to agitate opinions. Seen it so many times. So in showing my >>>>>>> appreciation for your help, I refrain from starting an off-topic >>thread >>>>>:))) >>>>>>> David :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> David Orcutt >>>>>>> http://www.theballroomco.com >>>>>>> sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message >>>>><74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> > > ###### From: chester basshead Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 01:18:07 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 16 Dec 1998 09:11:28 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Wed Dec 16 01:15:05 1998 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 34 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust153.tnt7.lax1.da.uu.net Message-ID: <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Richard wrote: > But for those thinking OOB experiences might be a neat thing to try. .. . > Just be sure you really want this before you get too far into it. Once you > start it may not be easy to stop. You have a choice. And I believe it is a > very serious choice. Some of us did not have the choice. What ever this > really is. . . Read about it. . . Talk to people about how it felt in the > beginning. It may not be for you. I am thinking now a days if someone > tells you it is no real big deal, maybe what they are experiencing is > different. . . at least different from what I, and a few others I have met > out here describe. It can shake the foundation of your belief system. It > took me most of my life to fully come to accept what it means to me. If you > are in a rush to do this. . . maybe you do not have the time it will take > you. > Hi Richard. I would just like to say that I completely agree with your statement and don't feel it is mentioned enough at this NG. Although I had spontaneous activity as a child and have always had a pretty open mind about paranormal topics, I was still completely traumatized when I began experiencing such things again a few years ago. I have learned the power of 'experiential belief' and how it *really* compares to what are cute little conscious ego's think about the world... I viewed my mind as completly open, yet my belief system was still turned upside down and I will never be the same. There are many friends and relatives in my life upon whom I would never wish such experiences. Many of them question my sanity. Warmly, Brian ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:39:16 -0800 Organization: Posted via RemarQ, http://www.remarQ.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 44 Message-ID: <759om6$bu6$1@remarQ.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> <36783456.1447@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.31 X-Trace: 913860102 I0G4.QBCE5F1FCF30C usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!SupernewsUK!supernews.com!SnNA!Supernews69!not-for-mail Life-Saver wrote in message <36783456.1447@geocities.com>... >What I am scared of, if OBE would one day become an approved way of >thinking, is that the suicide rate would rise up A LOT! cause every >body would know there is a better place... (anyway) I was very depressed >once, and considered suicide... and now, I don't have a problem with >that anymore, but knowing there is a whole new world out there would be >a big "helper" to suicide (for a very depressed man) > >then again, it would maybe stop them from trying to cease to exist, >since they'd still be there after... anyway > >just a though >Life-Saver >life-saver@geocities.com >http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 It seems to me *knowing* there is another place beyond would be an inducement to stay *here* in this life. When I am there, sure it is beautiful and peaceful. I sometimes cry when I know I have to come back. But I also know at that point that I am here in this body to accomplish certain things. Suicide just is not a viable answer to a problem. I would be interested if there is any depression in regular OOBErs. . . In my own case I have been a lot more stable emotionally since starting this path of internal exploration. . . or where ever it is we really go. -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ Join the search for Intelligent Life in the Universe at home http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com ###### Message-ID: <36783456.1447@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 22:30:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.172 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 17:30:58 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!198.235.216.4.POSTED!not-for-mail chester basshead wrote: > > Richard wrote: > > > But for those thinking OOB experiences might be a neat thing to try. .. . > > Just be sure you really want this before you get too far into it. Once you > > start it may not be easy to stop. You have a choice. And I believe it is a > > very serious choice. Some of us did not have the choice. What ever this > > really is. . . Read about it. . . Talk to people about how it felt in the > > beginning. It may not be for you. I am thinking now a days if someone > > tells you it is no real big deal, maybe what they are experiencing is > > different. . . at least different from what I, and a few others I have met > > out here describe. It can shake the foundation of your belief system. It > > took me most of my life to fully come to accept what it means to me. If you > > are in a rush to do this. . . maybe you do not have the time it will take > > you. > > > > Hi Richard. I would just like to say that I completely agree with your statement > and don't feel it is mentioned enough at this NG. Although I had spontaneous > activity as a child and have always had a pretty open mind about paranormal > topics, I was still completely traumatized when I began experiencing such things > again a few years ago. I have learned the power of 'experiential belief' and how > it *really* compares to what are cute little conscious ego's think about the > world... I viewed my mind as completly open, yet my belief system was still > turned upside down and I will never be the same. There are many friends and > relatives in my life upon whom I would never wish such experiences. Many of them > question my sanity. > > Warmly, > > Brian What I am scared of, if OBE would one day become an approved way of thinking, is that the suicide rate would rise up A LOT! cause every body would know there is a better place... (anyway) I was very depressed once, and considered suicide... and now, I don't have a problem with that anymore, but knowing there is a whole new world out there would be a big "helper" to suicide (for a very depressed man) then again, it would maybe stop them from trying to cease to exist, since they'd still be there after... anyway just a though Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: stian@eunet.no (Stian Strandem) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 16:51:49 GMT Lines: 15 Message-ID: <36793678.15617171@news.eunet.no> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> <36783456.1447@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.71.2.24 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.online.no!Norway.EU.net!not-for-mail >What I am scared of, if OBE would one day become an approved way of >thinking, is that the suicide rate would rise up A LOT! cause every >body would know there is a better place... (anyway) I was very depressed >once, and considered suicide... and now, I don't have a problem with >that anymore, but knowing there is a whole new world out there would be >a big "helper" to suicide (for a very depressed man) > >then again, it would maybe stop them from trying to cease to exist, >since they'd still be there after... anyway What make you think that that's the state that you would permanently exist in after a death? ###### From: clairity@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:26:28 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 37 Message-ID: <75bes0$2n$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> <36783456.1447@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.97.110.70 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Dec 17 17:26:28 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.02 (OS/2; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x8.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 32.97.110.70 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <36783456.1447@geocities.com>, > life-saver@geocities.com wrote: > What I am scared of, if OBE would one day become an approved way of > thinking, is that the suicide rate would rise up A LOT! cause every > body would know there is a better place... (anyway) I was very depressed > once, and considered suicide... and now, I don't have a problem with > that anymore, but knowing there is a whole new world out there would be > a big "helper" to suicide (for a very depressed man) > > then again, it would maybe stop them from trying to cease to exist, > since they'd still be there after... anyway > > just a thought > Life-Saver > life-saver@geocities.com > http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 > Life-Saver, what is striking to me is how MANY people have remarked that they have actually thought of suicide as a solution. A couple of days ago, I just posted about my own desperate attempt at "assisted suicide" so to speak to someone in alt.dreams.lucid who was talking of killing himself and who hoped that the afterlife would be a cool lucid dream. His post is entitled "Lucid Dreaming at Will" should you care to read it.. but what I will repost here is that there is a saying that "suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" and I have to agree. Most problems, no matter how dark, normally do not last forever. From my own experiences, and from those who have written about having had such thoughts, things do get better (ya just gotta hang in there)! ;-) Take care! Clairity -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### Message-ID: <36798B5B.3A05@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> <36783456.1447@geocities.com> <36793678.15617171@news.eunet.no> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:54:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.159 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 17:54:30 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!198.235.216.4.POSTED!not-for-mail Stian Strandem wrote: > > >What I am scared of, if OBE would one day become an approved way of > >thinking, is that the suicide rate would rise up A LOT! cause every > >body would know there is a better place... (anyway) I was very depressed > >once, and considered suicide... and now, I don't have a problem with > >that anymore, but knowing there is a whole new world out there would be > >a big "helper" to suicide (for a very depressed man) > > > >then again, it would maybe stop them from trying to cease to exist, > >since they'd still be there after... anyway > > What make you think that that's the state that you would permanently > exist in after a death? don't ask about details, it was just a though! -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <36798D2B.5ECB@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How to prevent OBE's (Was: Interested in opinions) References: <744upt$t62$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <746kqh$aum$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <748c86$ptf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <74bq0f$kd0$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <366B6CB9.D1129797@privatei.com> <74i4cr$dfu$1@remarQ.com> <74mo73$nvk$1@remarQ.com> <74nbq2$jvs$1@remarQ.com> <36777ACF.2CA02301@earthlink.nXXXet> <36783456.1447@geocities.com> <75bes0$2n$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:02:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.159 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 18:02:15 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!nntp.abs.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!news1.bellglobal.com!198.235.216.4.POSTED!not-for-mail clairity@webtv.net wrote: > > In article <36783456.1447@geocities.com>, > > life-saver@geocities.com wrote: > > > What I am scared of, if OBE would one day become an approved way of > > thinking, is that the suicide rate would rise up A LOT! cause every > > body would know there is a better place... (anyway) I was very depressed > > once, and considered suicide... and now, I don't have a problem with > > that anymore, but knowing there is a whole new world out there would be > > a big "helper" to suicide (for a very depressed man) > > > > then again, it would maybe stop them from trying to cease to exist, > > since they'd still be there after... anyway > > > > just a thought > > Life-Saver > > life-saver@geocities.com > > http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 > > > > Life-Saver, what is striking to me is how MANY people have remarked that > they have actually thought of suicide as a solution. A couple of days > ago, I just posted about my own desperate attempt at "assisted suicide" > so to speak to someone in alt.dreams.lucid who was talking of killing > himself and who hoped that the afterlife would be a cool lucid dream. > His post is entitled "Lucid Dreaming at Will" should you care to read > it.. but what I will repost here is that there is a saying that "suicide > is a permanent solution to a temporary problem" and I have to agree. > Most problems, no matter how dark, normally do not last forever. > From my own experiences, and from those who have written about having had > such thoughts, things do get better (ya just gotta hang in there)! ;-) I understand completely, and I also agree with you! I have had many depression, and CONSIDERED suicide.. but never attempted... each time I come to think about it i think: ok so If I stop it now, I won't be able to see the Next NIN concert, nor the new album, never drive a BMW (taht I plan to be my next car :) ) abbandon the hope to start my company, and many other dreams. those dreams are keeping me very alive! and even then, when I'll have them all, there will be new ones... if not, I will be very happy anyway, so I won't be tempted by suicide. even now, since a friend of mine did it(suicide) about 3 years ago, I told myself to explore all kind of new feelings, including depression (ie: getting very depressed, but savouring it instead of being afraid) I have a such positive way of thinking, that I scare my friends who see me as a broken single boy who is failing many courses... but I know I have the time to succeed, so I don't care! money is a problem thow... but I can manage it.. anyway. -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498