Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: "David Burns" Subject: Astral Projection Points! X-Nntp-Posting-Host: ppp1 Message-ID: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> Sender: news@spuddy.mew.co.uk Organization: [no company] X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:14:16 GMT Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!158.43.192.17!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!server1.netnews.ja.net!warwick!spuddy!news I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a logical explanation. an oobe, by its very definition is not something you need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. ###### From: Dave Ritchie Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 11:11:12 -0800 Organization: Cadspec Lines: 53 Message-ID: <36643F50.26A1FDD3@pobox.com> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> <366411B5.1CFA@geocities.com> Reply-To: dritchie@pobox.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ws30b.cadspec.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.pbi.net!207.33.1.6!news.he.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!masters0.news.internex.net!usenet Just my two cents: I've been having OBEs for a couple years now. I usually have them in the middle of the night, at which point I 'wake up' and it just happens. I can't remember one time that this has happened that I have not had a lot of fear, or felt that something was wrong. Most of the time I ignore this fear and allow the OBE to occur. I have never had any trouble with any entities, energies, or whatever in the astral. That's just my experience. dave Life-Saver wrote: > David Burns wrote: > > > > I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales > > of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my > > body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and > > hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for > > these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my > > very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by > > me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a > > lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. > > It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of > > making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave > > your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. > > It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your > > life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just > > the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at > > it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a > > logical explanation. an oobe, by its very definition is not something you > > need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it > > is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with > > aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. > > it si common to think that OBEs are dangerous... never comming back, > getting lost... > but As I learned so far, these things are very rare! less than 1% of > OBErs... but there one thing thow. In many obe stories I read, there is > always that strange feeling of something is wrong, and then the one > having this feeling, goes back to his body immediately... some of you > all must have had these inquietude feeling... well you all listened to > it?... but what if you didn't? would you be one of the less than 1% > now? could the OBE be like playing with fire, but with a more carefull > approach? where if you fails listening to your gut feeling, you die? > > Please, someone, proove me wrong. next time you have that feeling in > OBE, don't listen to it! ... err... I bet nobody will listen to me... > I bet! I bet!.. >:D > > Cya! > Life-Saver > life-saver@geocities.com > http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <366411B5.1CFA@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 15:58:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.64 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 10:58:19 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!torn!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail David Burns wrote: > > I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales > of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my > body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and > hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for > these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my > very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by > me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a > lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. > It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of > making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave > your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. > It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your > life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just > the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at > it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a > logical explanation. an oobe, by its very definition is not something you > need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it > is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with > aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. it si common to think that OBEs are dangerous... never comming back, getting lost... but As I learned so far, these things are very rare! less than 1% of OBErs... but there one thing thow. In many obe stories I read, there is always that strange feeling of something is wrong, and then the one having this feeling, goes back to his body immediately... some of you all must have had these inquietude feeling... well you all listened to it?... but what if you didn't? would you be one of the less than 1% now? could the OBE be like playing with fire, but with a more carefull approach? where if you fails listening to your gut feeling, you die? Please, someone, proove me wrong. next time you have that feeling in OBE, don't listen to it! ... err... I bet nobody will listen to me... I bet! I bet!.. >:D Cya! Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 17:47:34 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 68 Message-ID: <7428l0$hs7$1@supernews.com> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.38 X-Trace: 912565728 I0G4.QBCE5F26CF30C usenet77.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail What you fear in OOBE just comes down to what you believe. In the beginning you have only the sensation and as I remember my own experiences a lot of fear. I did not attribute these fears to demons because I did not think at the time that OOBE was anything real. It was just part of a bad dream, or some brain disorder. That was what scared me in the beginning. I thought I was going to die from some sort of brain disfunction. But as time went on, I got used to the sensation. I knew I was not going to die. I grew to like the experience. Now 99.999% of the time I am totally fear free. The small amount of fear. . . maybe once in a great while I will just not be ready. I will not be in the right frame of mind when the OOBE starts. Some of the original fear of the unknown will creep in for a brief time. In my 35 some odd years of doing this, I have never had a bad time. Once I accepted that it was going to a part of my other life, it became a very enjoyable part. There does not have to be anything attached to it if you do not choose to attach anything to it. My advice I tell most new people. . . If this is happening to you spontaneously. . . it may be easier to get used to it than to fight it. If you are choosing to bring OOBE on yourself, be very sure you know what it is about before asking to get OOBE started. . . And do not expect your experience to be what everyone else describes. There can be similarities in sensations, but what you bring to the experience will color your own interpretation. Do not let someone else's interpretation of their experience cloud your own. As far as what OOBE actually is. . .While I agree it is open to interpretation, your interpretation that it may just be a conscious dream is limiting. (sounds more like a lucid dream than OOBE) I have had experiences that prove to me that OOBE is more than a conscious dream. But you will have to decide what is real for you. Good luck. . . -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#bigfoot.com David Burns wrote in message <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave>... >I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales >of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my >body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and >hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for >these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my >very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by >me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a >lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. >It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of >making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave >your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. > It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your >life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just >the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at >it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a >logical explanation. an oobe, by its very definition is not something you >need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it >is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with >aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. > ###### From: zyphrhart@aol.com (Zyphr Hart) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Lines: 58 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 1 Dec 1998 18:17:31 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <366411B5.1CFA@geocities.com> Message-ID: <19981201131731.26189.00000628@ng137.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> >> I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales >> of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my >> body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and >> hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for >> these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my >> very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by >> me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a >> lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. >> It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of >> making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave >> your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. >> It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your >> life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just >> the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at >> it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a >> logical explanation. an oobe, by its very definition is not something you >> need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it >> is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with >> aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. > >it si common to think that OBEs are dangerous... never comming back, >getting lost... >but As I learned so far, these things are very rare! less than 1% of >OBErs... but there one thing thow. In many obe stories I read, there is >always that strange feeling of something is wrong, and then the one >having this feeling, goes back to his body immediately... some of you >all must have had these inquietude feeling... well you all listened to >it?... but what if you didn't? would you be one of the less than 1% >now? could the OBE be like playing with fire, but with a more carefull >approach? where if you fails listening to your gut feeling, you die? > >Please, someone, proove me wrong. next time you have that feeling in >OBE, don't listen to it! ... err... I bet nobody will listen to me... >I bet! I bet!.. >:D > >Cya! >Life-Saver >life-saver@geocities.com >http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 > I think for many beginners, at least for me, there was a certian amount of fear with the OOBE process. Surely ones' mind can come up with many interpretations for that fear. For the longest time I had trouble with the fear, mostly because I had no knowledge of the OOBE process in the first place. However, after reading and learning, I discovered that the fear was coming from myself and no where else. After I faced that fact, I have not had any fear at all. Of course, I have, on a few occasions, seen a few evil looking creatures in my time. But I haven't been harmed by them, and I would probably have to say that they where figments of my imagination. muHahahahahaha.......... Zyphr ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:31:17 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 40 Message-ID: <7425i5$for@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> <3665abcd.30109665@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh40-14.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Dec 01 5:36:05 PM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!nntp.abs.net!netnews.com!ix.netcom.com!news Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <3665abcd.30109665@news.dial.pipex.com>... > I did come across an interesting theory recently, that the 'scary >thing' otherwise called the 'Lurker at the Threshold' is actually your >strongest and finest Guardian. So there is a name for it... 'Lurker at the Threshold', huh? Would have been nice to know about this common experience 20 years ago. >It is the embodiment of your own >personal worst fears (mine was dark and hairy with appalling toenails, >something I abhor!) and once you see it, you can recognise it as such. Mine seemed to take the shape of a cat with a nasty attitude and which "felt" somewhat evil because it seemed to have an intelligence beyond an average cat. Then it gradually shifted to having no form other than a voice which kept stopping me and telling me I wasn't ready - sometimes even grabbing hold of me and swinging me around until I gave up and woke up. >Recognised for what it is, it has no power to harm. Pass it by, >sending some love towards it, and it will guard your empty body from >harm whilst you are 'out'. I keep shoving my earlier experiences into the past. I really should pay more attention to them when I talk to beginners. As I think back, I had a major problem with "The Lurker at the Threshold" during the early days. Eventually, it stopped bothering me. But then it seemed to take on another characteristic - abdominal muscle cramps. These went on for years. They didn't happen EVERY time, but often enough to be a bother. They were still happening when I first came on this NG. I haven't had them for a couple of years though. Now... if you'll excuse me - I must go tidy up my toenails ;-) Bart ###### Message-ID: <366455C9.C5C7454B@the.end.of.the.message> Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 07:47:05 +1100 From: Craig Organization: Deja Vous X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.9 X-Trace: 2 Dec 1998 08:48:52 +1000, 203.18.28.9 Lines: 60 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl!uunet!in3.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.9 David Burns wrote: > > I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales > of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my > body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and > hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for > these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my > very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by > me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a > lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. Yes, that is correct David. You should take your own advise and 'NOT take it as others tell you it is'. :-) Really, don't go away from here because there may be elements of peoples experiences that scare you. We all have to face our fears, and these 'stories' for the most part are peoples interpretations of their fears, interpreted in such a way they can understand. I mean, if someone didn't believe in the devil, they would hardly convey a fear of the devil taking over their body, they would talk more of spirits or something. Really, you will have to face fears as well, so will I, it just boils down to our belief system and how we interpret what we see OOB. :-) > It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of > making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave > your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. > It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your > life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just > the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at > it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a > logical explanation. That is a logical explanation for those people. :-) > an oobe, by its very definition is not something you > need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it > is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with > aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. For some people, having a faith in something ties in with the OBE greatly, and if you take away their faith, you would take away their experience, IMO. I mean, we all believe in 'something' and we often go within ourselves to find out more about that something. So if by going deeper into ourselves we explore the OBE to have a greater understanding of our faith and /or what we believe in, then they are working hand in hand, so please don't belittle people by asking them not to refer to their experience using words that they can understand but you don't like. Just convert their words into words that are appropriate to your beliefs. :-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au -- ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 21:23:22 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3665abcd.30109665@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa210.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:14:16 GMT, "David Burns" wrote: >I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales >of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my >body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and >hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for >these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my >very soul with his claws o' death'. Fear? What is that? Curiosity overcomes fear or the human race would never have learned to eat fruit and vegetables. Don't leave the newsgroup, learn from it. I had one scary encounter once, or it would have been scary if I hadn't been warned about the possibility and taught how to deal with it. So it wasn't, in fact, scary at all, just an interesting event. I did come across an interesting theory recently, that the 'scary thing' otherwise called the 'Lurker at the Threshold' is actually your strongest and finest Guardian. It is the embodiment of your own personal worst fears (mine was dark and hairy with appalling toenails, something I abhor!) and once you see it, you can recognise it as such. Recognised for what it is, it has no power to harm. Pass it by, sending some love towards it, and it will guard your empty body from harm whilst you are 'out'. Weirdo New Agey stuff? Could be. But it works for me, along with homeopathy, osteopathy, self-confidence, meditation and all those other weirdo New Agey things that millions of people do every day all over the world. Drop the fear, the preconceptions and the judgements, and learn. All best wishes for your happy travels, Julia Hawkes-Moore. ###### From: "Frank" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Wed, 2 Dec 1998 20:46:44 +0100 Organization: Customer of Online Internet Lines: 48 Message-ID: <74460j$73h$1@trex.antw.online.be> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> NNTP-Posting-Host: t09-42.antw.online.be X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!diablo.theplanet.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.online.be!not-for-mail Hi, I'm still new to OOBE. In the OOBE that I had, nothing scared me, I only had fun. I can't tell you more about OOB experiences. But I can tell you this about dreams (maybe wrong placed here, but I just thought I should tell this): When I was a kid, I could wake myself up in my dreams whenever something scared me. Now, I don't know if I can still do that, because if something tries to scare me, instead of waking myself up, I scare away whatever tries to scare me, because I know that it is powerless against me. It's a matter of using the fearsomes own weapon. This has always worked for me! I can scare them away myself. I never have nightmares, unless they are symbolic and I do not understand what is scaring me. Don't feed the monster with your fear. When they see that they have no power over you, they will give up and disappear! I don't know if this works the same in OOBE's, I still have to find out. Frank David Burns heeft geschreven in bericht <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave>... >I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales >of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my >body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and >hinder my oobe progress. Please, can people provide other explanations for >these experiences, other than 'it was the devil himself trying to steal my >very soul with his claws o' death'. Being devoutly religious is okay by >me, but you have to remember that the whole idea of oobe-ing is open to a >lot of interpretation. You should NOT take it as others tell you it is. >It's sometihng to find out for yourself. It could be simply a way of >making yourself dream whilst still consious, so you never actually leave >your body. It could be a pure dream. It could be a type of strange sleep. > It doesn't necessariily have to be a demon trying to nick all your >life-energy. So before anyone gets all new-agey and 'I knew it was just >the devil trying to steal my energy, so I said prayer and threw bibles at >it and i managed to pacify it so i could escape', try and think of a >logical explanation. an oobe, by its very definition is not something you >need to have faith in to believe in its existance. It can be taken as it >is because you can experience it. it shouldn't be clouded over with >aspects of faith, which is NOT required to have an oobe. > ###### From: chester basshead Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 21:14:05 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> <366bc638.7357579@news.melbpc.org.au> <3665D03B.26B0@geocities.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 3 Dec 1998 05:08:34 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Wed Dec 2 21:15:08 1998 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 31 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust221.tnt5.lax1.da.uu.net Message-ID: <36661E1D.69A5459C@earthlink.nXXXet> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Life-Saver wrote: > John Fitzsimons wrote: > > It all depend on one's priorities I suppose. Which is more important ? > > To have an OOB or a *safe* OOB ? I prefer the latter. I also have no > > belief in demons or devils. I do however setup psychic protection to > > counter the effects of negative people who are OOB, or people who > > are negative and discarnate. > > and who do you do that? (I ask that because it seems easy to do, but > still incomprehensible yet for me...) > -- > Life-Saver > life-saver@geocities.com > http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 Hi. :-D Did you mean 'how'? ;-) I read at John's page about psychically protecting by visualizing a bright white light all around your body, as if you are glowing like the sun, etc.. but check out his page, it'll tell you all about it! Warmly, Brian ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:02:59 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 25 Message-ID: <366bc638.7357579@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> NNTP-Posting-Host: bilby9.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:14:16 GMT, "David Burns" wrote: >I'm considering to stop reading this newsgroup; There are too many tales >of 'i saw a shadowy figure that attacked me and tried to rip me out of my >body but i praised the lord and i was okay'. They're wayy tooo scary and >hinder my oobe progress. < snip > It all depend on one's priorities I suppose. Which is more important ? To have an OOB or a *safe* OOB ? I prefer the latter. I also have no belief in demons or devils. I do however setup psychic protection to counter the effects of negative people who are OOB, or people who are negative and discarnate. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Message-ID: <3665D03B.26B0@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> <366bc638.7357579@news.melbpc.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 23:43:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.36 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Dec 1998 18:43:30 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail John Fitzsimons wrote: > It all depend on one's priorities I suppose. Which is more important ? > To have an OOB or a *safe* OOB ? I prefer the latter. I also have no > belief in demons or devils. I do however setup psychic protection to > counter the effects of negative people who are OOB, or people who > are negative and discarnate. and who do you do that? (I ask that because it seems easy to do, but still incomprehensible yet for me...) -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection Points! Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 09:01:23 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Message-ID: <3667a294.1686307@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <01be1be8$248c7520$LocalHost@dave> <3665abcd.30109665@news.dial.pipex.com> <7425i5$for@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa210.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail On Tue, 1 Dec 1998 20:31:17 -0500, "Bart" wrote: >So there is a name for it... 'Lurker at the Threshold', huh? Would have >been nice to know about this common experience 20 years ago. Or now that I've been back and checked the book, 'The Terror at the Threshold' - 'Flying without a broom' by CD Conway, very good indeed. I keep re-reading it and I've even been trying all the exercises, with fascinating results. Unusual for me to get so absorbed into one particular book! >Mine seemed to take the shape of a cat with a nasty attitude and which >"felt" somewhat evil because it seemed to have an intelligence beyond an >average cat. Then it gradually shifted to having no form other than a voice >which kept stopping me and telling me I wasn't ready - sometimes even >grabbing hold of me and swinging me around until I gave up and woke up. Part of its duty seems to be preventing 'beginners' passing the threshold until they are ready. Mine let me through with no trouble, but other people have to deal with their own emotional problems before they are considered ready to travel. Perhaps you were not being kind to cats. >I keep shoving my earlier experiences into the past. I really should pay >more attention to them when I talk to beginners. As I think back, I had a >major problem with "The Lurker at the Threshold" during the early days. >Eventually, it stopped bothering me. But then it seemed to take on another >characteristic - abdominal muscle cramps. These went on for years. They >didn't happen EVERY time, but often enough to be a bother. They were still >happening when I first came on this NG. I haven't had them for a couple of >years though. Solar plexus chakra problems?= Personal identity and self-confidence issues. Also emotional problems, particularly with relationships with the mother and/or lover. I dunno, this chakra stuff makes more sense the more I investigate healing. It does work. > >Now... if you'll excuse me - I must go tidy up my toenails ;-) Oh, no, don't tell me you have bad toenails, that is so deeply unpleasant... And I had so much respect for you too, Bart. Good thing we are unlikely to meet in the physical. Still, here am I, happily married to a man with foul toenails... That's Karma for you, I suppose... All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore.