From: sterno@bigbrother.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: The Religion of OBE Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:09:09 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 34 Message-ID: <73fea8$djc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.151.179.190 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Nov 24 23:09:09 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.06 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x6.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 206.151.179.190 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.207.0.26!nntp.giganews.com!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail I've been reading this group for some time now and I have seen dozens of posts that have questioned the existence of OBE's. I have also seen dozens of replies saying something to the effect of "I believe in them and I don't need to proove they exist". To me this all sounds like a discussion that would happen on a religious newsgroup with a slightly different format. Instead of somebody asking others to proove the existence of OBE's, they ask to proove the existence of God. And of course the response is the same: I believe in God and I don't need to proove he/she/it/they exist(s). I've also noticed several interesting parallels between OBE experiences and traditional religious doctrines. I've read many articles and books which have described the astral world in much the same way as the traditional christian heaven. I've read that in the astral world, there are several levels of existence and that to attain higher levels, one must purify one's sould of fear and evil. This has hints of christian and possibly buddist aspects (I'm not well read on buddhism but that's my impression at least). I've also noted that many people that believe in OBE's also believe in reincarnation which is from several sources, most notably, hindu. Having said that, I'm not sure what exactly this conclusion means. Personally I'm somewhat of a relativist, and my thought is that whether these things exist or not is really irrelevant. If a person believes something and it brings some meaning to their life, then that is a good thing, whether or not it is real. The concept of "real" is pretty flaky anyhow :) Personally I believe that there is more to existence than what we see in the physical world. That's why I have been attempting to have an OBE, to find what else is out there. ---Steve -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Religion of OBE Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:23:04 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 83 Message-ID: <73ftfq$1ne@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <73fea8$djc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh38-14.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 24 9:27:54 PM CST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news sterno@bigbrother.net wrote in message <73fea8$djc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >I've been reading this group for some time now and I have seen dozens of >posts that have questioned the existence of OBE's. I have also seen dozens >of replies saying something to the effect of "I believe in them and I don't >need to proove they exist". To me this all sounds like a discussion that >would happen on a religious newsgroup with a slightly different format. >Instead of somebody asking others to proove the existence of OBE's, they ask >to proove the existence of God. And of course the response is the same: I >believe in God and I don't need to proove he/she/it/they exist(s). > >I've also noticed several interesting parallels between OBE experiences and >traditional religious doctrines. I've read many articles and books which >have described the astral world in much the same way as the traditional >christian heaven. I've read that in the astral world, there are several >levels of existence and that to attain higher levels, one must purify one's >sould of fear and evil. This has hints of christian and possibly buddist >aspects (I'm not well read on buddhism but that's my impression at least). >I've also noted that many people that believe in OBE's also believe in >reincarnation which is from several sources, most notably, hindu. > >Having said that, I'm not sure what exactly this conclusion means. >Personally I'm somewhat of a relativist, and my thought is that whether these >things exist or not is really irrelevant. If a person believes something and >it brings some meaning to their life, then that is a good thing, whether or >not it is real. The concept of "real" is pretty flaky anyhow :) > >Personally I believe that there is more to existence than what we see in the >physical world. That's why I have been attempting to have an OBE, to find >what else is out there. > >---Steve Well said. OBE and religion go hand in hand because they are both internal studies. Religion, no matter which one it may be, isn't a lie - it's just an incomplete maze formed by physical words necessary to communicate internal phenomena to the physical consciousness. When you go beyond physical consciousness, the experiences are very similar - regardless of the religion in which you find your base. Why? Because everyone is made of the same thing... My opinion on why this type of travel is possible? Because we are made of the same thing as everything else - and we know this. We've already learned how to travel and communicate over trivial distances by using various laws of physics. Yet we've hardly even begun to study the physics of consciousness itself. We've been told, by a number of Spiritual Giants, how to operate this type of physics - but we largely ignore them because it doesn't involve anything physical. Yet, we gradually find more understanding - then it becomes science and the whole religious thing comes back into play for the next question. Then we make another breakthrough, and again, it becomes science - no mystery - non-religious situation... Spirit consistantly demands a breakthrough - and then science makes it, and then claims Spirit is non-existant... How contrary... But... this is the way Spirit works in the physical. All is right in Spirit. :-) The religious energy has always fueled science - else there would be no need to question ourselves out of the mud puddle from which we arose. Without conflict, change would not happen - growth would not happen. Such is the way of the dualistic nature of Spirit as it approaches the physical level of reality. The confusion is intense for our physical little minds. But when we move into Spirit, we begin to recognize larger truths. Science is there for that part of reality which Spirit has proven Itself to Itself. Welcome to the newsgroup, Steve. Bart