Message-ID: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: My opinion of the meaning of life Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:01:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.98 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:01:15 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail I recently though about something... which constructed itself even further while trying to understand more than just the movie (what dreams may come.) Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! (like: Hey! Lets got to the Internet cafe and Duke Match out little) something that could be like saying to your best spirit friend: "Hey! Lets have a life (trip) in autralia... its a cool place to live!" so the two spirit goes to australia and reincarnate there, moving all their previous memory to the subcountious(so the new born will not recall anything from past life (althow it can be recalled through other means later), and starting a new experiment... the subcountious will find the his friend, and the two will usually become best friends again... :)... or could it be that someone will reincarnate close to their old family, and the guy could BE his own greater grand-pa. just to stay close to his family?... if this is true, it could explain the meaning of destiny... and again, if a friend wants to go back, the other one can stay and watch his life... help him out a little ---> guardian angel I like this vision... its as if life was a big computer from the future... -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 15:30:32 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 73 Message-ID: <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> Reply-To: shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.70.133.9 To: teddimm@aol.com, (Michael Martin) X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Nov 19 15:30:32 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x8.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.70.133.9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <36535F71.1184@geocities.com>, life-saver@geocities.com wrote: > I recently though about something... which constructed itself even > further while trying to understand more than just the movie (what dreams > may come.) > > Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, > travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, > we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! It's partially like that, but not totally. Our desires will have an effect on the framework of our next life, but our karmas from this and past lives will have their effect, also. The Negative Power gives us the karmas to go through. We don't have a choice in the matter. We are prisoners of Satan, due to our own past actions. We must submit to a True Master to learn how to free ourselves from Satan and realize the Supreme Being. > (like: Hey! Lets got to the Internet cafe and Duke Match out little) > something that could be like saying to your best spirit friend: > "Hey! Lets have a life (trip) in autralia... its a cool place to live!" > so the two spirit goes to australia and reincarnate there, moving all > their previous memory to the subcountious(so the new born will not > recall anything from past life (althow it can be recalled through other > means later), and starting a new experiment... the subcountious will > find the his friend, and the two will usually become best friends > again... :)... It's not that simple. We are not free to decide anything. Our whole life is already planned out by Satan, due to the reactions of our past karmas. He has allotted us a certain lifespan, which we should use to clear our karmic debts, but unfortunately we usually increase our karmas rather than decrease them. We need to seek the shelter of a True Master, if we want to regain our spiritual freedom. > > or could it be that someone will reincarnate close to their old family, > and the guy could BE his own greater grand-pa. just to stay close to his > family?... if this is true, it could explain the meaning of destiny... This happens quite often, but what if we have killed someone in a past life. Then we would not only owe him, but we would owe all his family members as well. We have to look at the negative side of karma, rather than just the positive. We are dancing to the tune of all our karmas, both good and bad. > > and again, if a friend wants to go back, the other one can stay and > watch his life... help him out a little ---> guardian angel The possibilities are endless, but as I wrote above, the Negative Power or Satan, is the being who will decide what we must go through in life. We are in the hands of Satan, unless we take refuge with the True Master. If we do that, then the Master will be responsible for us, and Satan will have no authority over us as far as distributing to us our karmas. > > I like this vision... its as if life was a big computer from the > future... Your vision is like living in fantasy land, where you have control over your destiny. That is not the case. The Negative Power or Satan will have us dancing to his tune, according to our karmas. Michael Martin A Western World Spiritual Master > > -- > Life-Saver > life-saver@geocities.com > http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: clairity@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 18:25:47 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 79 Message-ID: <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.97.110.73 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Nov 19 18:25:47 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.02 (OS/2; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x2.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 32.97.110.73 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote: > > life-saver@geocities.com wrote: > > I recently though about something... which constructed itself even > > further while trying to understand more than just the movie (what dreams > > may come.) > > > > Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, > > travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, > > we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! > > It's partially like that, but not totally. Our desires will have an effect > on the framework of our next life, but our karmas from this and past lives > will have their effect, also. The Negative Power gives us the karmas to go > through. We don't have a choice in the matter. We are prisoners of Satan, > due to our own past actions. We must submit to a True Master to learn how to > free ourselves from Satan and realize the Supreme Being. > > > (like: Hey! Lets got to the Internet cafe and Duke Match out little) > > something that could be like saying to your best spirit friend: > > "Hey! Lets have a life (trip) in autralia... its a cool place to live!" > > so the two spirit goes to australia and reincarnate there, moving all > > their previous memory to the subcountious(so the new born will not > > recall anything from past life (althow it can be recalled through other > > means later), and starting a new experiment... the subcountious will > > find the his friend, and the two will usually become best friends > > again... :)... > > It's not that simple. We are not free to decide anything. Our whole life is > already planned out by Satan, due to the reactions of our past karmas. He > has allotted us a certain lifespan, which we should use to clear our karmic > debts, but unfortunately we usually increase our karmas rather than decrease > them. We need to seek the shelter of a True Master, if we want to regain our > spiritual freedom. > > > > > or could it be that someone will reincarnate close to their old family, > > and the guy could BE his own greater grand-pa. just to stay close to his > > family?... if this is true, it could explain the meaning of destiny... > > This happens quite often, but what if we have killed someone in a past life. > Then we would not only owe him, but we would owe all his family members as > well. We have to look at the negative side of karma, rather than just the > positive. We are dancing to the tune of all our karmas, both good and bad. > > > > > and again, if a friend wants to go back, the other one can stay and > > watch his life... help him out a little ---> guardian angel > > The possibilities are endless, but as I wrote above, the Negative Power or > Satan, is the being who will decide what we must go through in life. We are > in the hands of Satan, unless we take refuge with the True Master. If we do > that, then the Master will be responsible for us, and Satan will have no > authority over us as far as distributing to us our karmas. > > > > > I like this vision... its as if life was a big computer from the > > future... > > Your vision is like living in fantasy land, where you have control over your > destiny. That is not the case. The Negative Power or Satan will have us > dancing to his tune, according to our karmas. > > Michael Martin > A Western World Spiritual Master > > Well..now I'm depressed... Okay I'm back! *g* I believe that I have at least a *little* control over my destiny (or what's the point of living?) This is just my opinion. (Hey Life-saver, see you in fantasy land) ;-) Take care! Clairity -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### Message-ID: <3654C0C3.861@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:08:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.99 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:08:45 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!iol!iol.ie!spamkiller1.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > Your vision is like living in fantasy land, where you have control over your > destiny. That is not the case. The Negative Power or Satan will have us > dancing to his tune, according to our karmas. > eer! fantasy?... mine seems more realistic (to me) than yours and why didn't you just said GOD instead of the True Master... at least, you would seem 1) a bit more convincing, 2)a bit less like comming out of a sect... no hard feelings, just my thoughts Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 01:16:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.99 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 20:16:02 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Just thought about saying something else... > This happens quite often, but what if we have killed someone in a past life. > Then we would not only owe him, but we would owe all his family members as > well. a reason more to belive why "GOD" sent us the 10 commandemants, and why Jesus learned to us to be good with everybody, just not to scrap their life up, messing their attempt of aving a good life! but the words you say just don't have my trust... why is that? maybe because you use words like "Satan" and "True Master", or "Karma"... I don't feel like falling in a sect right now... kay? I rather find my OWN spiritual path. take care! Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:52:14 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 60 Message-ID: <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh38-23.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Nov 20 5:57:03 PM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Life-Saver wrote in message <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com>... >Just thought about saying something else... > > >> This happens quite often, but what if we have killed someone in a past life. >> Then we would not only owe him, but we would owe all his family members as >> well. Then... maybe we will know better not to kill in this life? Good lesson. I'm learning it. I'm not sure what point this is trying to make other than an attempt to skip town without paying the bills by using a "Master" card... >a reason more to belive why "GOD" sent us the 10 commandemants, and why >Jesus learned to us to be good with everybody, just not to scrap their >life up, messing their attempt of aving a good life! Amen, brother! ...er, sister? >but the words you say just don't have my trust... why is that? >maybe because you use words like "Satan" and "True Master", or >"Karma"... >I don't feel like falling in a sect right now... kay? >I rather find my OWN spiritual path. > >take care! >Life-Saver Don't say that too loudly, LS - someone may form a cult around you called, "LIFE-SAVERS". ;-) .... That's catchy... "LIFE-SAVERS". Sounds better than most others I've heard. I like orange. How do I join? Do I get to wear a uniform or anything? It's interesting... I've heard of SOOOOOOO many paths popping up that warn against taking up your own path. Each one of them were formed by an individual who took their own path... People have been referred to as "sheep" for centuries. Needing guidance and supplying something of benefit for the shepard and Master - while the sheep go in for a fleecing... Eventually, in some cases, slaughter. Martin would do better not to call himself a master. It's best for others to call him such a thing - if they ever see the qualities of a "Master" in him. The Master is in everyone - else they are not alive. Can't get much simpler than that. Look inward and be honest with yourself. That's how one finds the Master. Follow that Master and no other. ....of course... this is only an opinion.... Bart ###### From: shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:59:38 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 76 Message-ID: <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.70.133.9 To: teddimm@aol.com X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Nov 21 15:59:38 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x12.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.70.133.9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, "Bart" wrote: > > Life-Saver wrote in message <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com>... > >Just thought about saying something else... > > > > > >> This happens quite often, but what if we have killed someone in a past > life. > >> Then we would not only owe him, but we would owe all his family members > as > >> well. > > Then... maybe we will know better not to kill in this life? Good lesson. > I'm learning it. I'm not sure what point this is trying to make other than > an attempt to skip town without paying the bills by using a "Master" card... > > >a reason more to belive why "GOD" sent us the 10 commandemants, and why > >Jesus learned to us to be good with everybody, just not to scrap their > >life up, messing their attempt of aving a good life! > > Amen, brother! ...er, sister? > > >but the words you say just don't have my trust... why is that? > >maybe because you use words like "Satan" and "True Master", or > >"Karma"... > >I don't feel like falling in a sect right now... kay? > >I rather find my OWN spiritual path. > > > >take care! > >Life-Saver > > Don't say that too loudly, LS - someone may form a cult around you called, > "LIFE-SAVERS". ;-) > > .... That's catchy... "LIFE-SAVERS". Sounds better than most others I've > heard. I like orange. How do I join? Do I get to wear a uniform or > anything? > > It's interesting... I've heard of SOOOOOOO many paths popping up that warn > against taking up your own path. Each one of them were formed by an > individual who took their own path... > > People have been referred to as "sheep" for centuries. Needing guidance and > supplying something of benefit for the shepard and Master - while the sheep > go in for a fleecing... Eventually, in some cases, slaughter. > > Martin would do better not to call himself a master. It's best for others > to call him such a thing - if they ever see the qualities of a "Master" in > him. The Master is in everyone - else they are not alive. God is in us, and so is Satan. Can't get much > simpler than that. Look inward and be honest with yourself. That's how one > finds the Master. We can't look inward, unless we have a Master to teach us how to do it. Nobody has ever realized God without a Master. If you look inward, you might be staring down the throat of Satan. Follow that Master and no other. You would be following Satan, unless you had a True Master to quide you. > > ....of course... this is only an opinion.... Thanks for your opinion. I expressed mine, also. > > Bart > Michael Martin A Spiritual Master -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### From: shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 16:11:08 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 108 Message-ID: <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Reply-To: shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.70.133.8 To: teddimm@aol.com X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Nov 21 16:11:08 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; MSIE 3.02; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x1.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.70.133.8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, clairity@webtv.net wrote: > In article <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, > > shabd@hotmail.com (Michael Martin) wrote: > > > > life-saver@geocities.com wrote: > > > > I recently though about something... which constructed itself even > > > further while trying to understand more than just the movie (what dreams > > > may come.) > > > > > > Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, > > > travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, > > > we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! > > > > It's partially like that, but not totally. Our desires will have an effect > > on the framework of our next life, but our karmas from this and past lives > > will have their effect, also. The Negative Power gives us the karmas to go > > through. We don't have a choice in the matter. We are prisoners of Satan, > > due to our own past actions. We must submit to a True Master to learn how to > > free ourselves from Satan and realize the Supreme Being. > > > > > (like: Hey! Lets got to the Internet cafe and Duke Match out little) > > > something that could be like saying to your best spirit friend: > > > "Hey! Lets have a life (trip) in autralia... its a cool place to live!" > > > so the two spirit goes to australia and reincarnate there, moving all > > > their previous memory to the subcountious(so the new born will not > > > recall anything from past life (althow it can be recalled through other > > > means later), and starting a new experiment... the subcountious will > > > find the his friend, and the two will usually become best friends > > > again... :)... > > > > It's not that simple. We are not free to decide anything. Our whole life is > > already planned out by Satan, due to the reactions of our past karmas. He > > has allotted us a certain lifespan, which we should use to clear our karmic > > debts, but unfortunately we usually increase our karmas rather than decrease > > them. We need to seek the shelter of a True Master, if we want to regain our > > spiritual freedom. > > > > > > > > or could it be that someone will reincarnate close to their old family, > > > and the guy could BE his own greater grand-pa. just to stay close to his > > > family?... if this is true, it could explain the meaning of destiny... > > > > This happens quite often, but what if we have killed someone in a past life. > > Then we would not only owe him, but we would owe all his family members as > > well. We have to look at the negative side of karma, rather than just the > > positive. We are dancing to the tune of all our karmas, both good and bad. > > > > > > > > and again, if a friend wants to go back, the other one can stay and > > > watch his life... help him out a little ---> guardian angel > > > > The possibilities are endless, but as I wrote above, the Negative Power or > > Satan, is the being who will decide what we must go through in life. We are > > in the hands of Satan, unless we take refuge with the True Master. If we do > > that, then the Master will be responsible for us, and Satan will have no > > authority over us as far as distributing to us our karmas. > > > > > > > > I like this vision... its as if life was a big computer from the > > > future... > > > > Your vision is like living in fantasy land, where you have control over your > > destiny. That is not the case. The Negative Power or Satan will have us > > dancing to his tune, according to our karmas. > > > > Michael Martin > > A Western World Spiritual Master > > > > > Well..now I'm depressed... Okay I'm back! *g* I believe that I have at > least a *little* control over my destiny (or what's the point of living?) We have absolutely no control over our destiny. Christ said, "Even the hairs on our head are numbered." We are born with everything numbered. Our breaths, our steps, our heartbeats, our wealth, our children, our education, our morsels of food, etc, etc... We can't change our destiny. We are born with it and we will go through it, whether we like it or not. The point of living is to find a Master, and learn from him the way to achieve oneness with the Supreme Being. That is the purpose of life. We must learn how to do spiritual meditation, and realize the Lord by stages. Christ said, "Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit." We need to get out of our body by meditation under the guidance of the Master, and then we can start on the journey back to the Supreme Being in the company of the Master. We have to pass through eight spiritual stages to behold the Supreme Being in his most perfect form. We need a Master to reach there. The True Master has the keys to our True Home. > This is just my opinion. (Hey Life-saver, see you in fantasy land) ;-) That's my opinion. > Take care! > > Clairity Michael Martin A Spiritual Master > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own ###### Message-ID: <3656FDC4.57BC@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 75 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:53:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.1 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:53:37 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > >a reason more to belive why "GOD" sent us the 10 commandemants, and why > >Jesus learned to us to be good with everybody, just not to scrap their > >life up, messing their attempt of aving a good life! > > Amen, brother! ...er, sister? ... brother... but I am a non-believer Catholic (I have just set aside my faith in order to study more and more to make my own decision... if my studies lead me back in christianity, then I will...At this point, I thing of creating a mix of all religions, keeping theyre common facts... but I don't think about drifting into a Canibal Club for Eaten God-Cows... and ending my life by turning myself inside-out to receive the ultimate gift of purity from the great God-Cow... just wanna keep in touch with reality while studying :) ) > >but the words you say just don't have my trust... why is that? > >maybe because you use words like "Satan" and "True Master", or > >"Karma"... > >I don't feel like falling in a sect right now... kay? > >I rather find my OWN spiritual path. > > > >take care! > >Life-Saver > > Don't say that too loudly, LS - someone may form a cult around you called, > "LIFE-SAVERS". ;-) then, I'll sue them for copyrights! > > .... That's catchy... "LIFE-SAVERS". Sounds better than most others I've > heard. I like orange. How do I join? Do I get to wear a uniform or > anything? you must buy a pack of LIFESAVERS and dress into a giant Life-Saver. since Red Lifesavers are the best, only the leader can wear RED. every body starts to wear White, and as they become better, they can switch to a path of colors leading to thee Red Lifesavers. but challenging the leader is a hard task. in order to obtain his status, you must put him into your mough, and melt him into a sweet liquid, then swallow him. if you fail, he will do it to you, ending your attempt to becomming the new leader. whatever... No seriously... notice the difference between real Lifesavers, and me: Life-Saver... I got that nick from a friend which I shared my lunch with in Highschool.. he said: "Thank you! you're a Life-Saver" and I just kept it... I was looking for a decent nick at the time so... anyway. > It's interesting... I've heard of SOOOOOOO many paths popping up that warn > against taking up your own path. Each one of them were formed by an > individual who took their own path... maybe, but I am not considering creating a bunch of followers to my idea. My own path is mine... how can others have my OWN path? because then, it will not be their own path, and It wont be my own path. to them it will be mine, and to my to will be ours. so it will scrap the whole thing... thats why i don't think about creating a sect about it.... ... but if you believe in my path, you can make a variation of mine, and claim it to be your own... some money contribution will be nice!.. of lets say 100 buck / week of continious belief? > Eventually, in some cases, slaughter. Lets all go jump off a cliff! In case some of the readers are total feeble minds, This post was not serious... please don't go dress up in a big Round Red suit or somthin' ...but Money contributions will still be accepted. -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <3656FE9C.7FF6@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 17:57:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.1 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:57:12 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Michael Martin wrote: > You would be following Satan, unless you had a True Master to quide you. yeah but what if the guy who does it alone, and find himself following Satan, ends up with the same revelation than another had with a true master? would those two same revelation would be right even if a different path was taken? (ex: getting from Chicago to Mexico by plane, or getting from Chicago to Mexico by car) don't tell me this is impossible. -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <365701CB.6AB8@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 48 Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:10:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.1 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 13:10:48 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Michael Martin wrote: > We have absolutely no control over our destiny. Christ said, "Even the hairs > on our head are numbered." We are born with everything numbered. Our So does the ADN > breaths, our steps, our heartbeats, our wealth, our children, our education, > our morsels of food, etc, etc... your Quote doesn't support that! > We can't change our destiny. We are born > with it and we will go through it, whether we like it or not. ok.. so If I decided to suicide myself NOW. will it be because of destiny? and If I CHOOSE not to... this is still destiny? then it means, that time is only a straight line and canot be altered through individual choices? if My car didn't started because I hitted a rock which cutted the fuel gas, and I took another car and got an accident, it was still destiny? if the little rock wasn't there, would I have had the accident anyway? but in my own car instead of my mother's? (didn't happened... just an example) or the rock had the destiny to break my fuel line?... so then! Men was ment to Nuke down Iroshima, create a polluted planet, and destroy the balance of nature? nice destiny... Gos is a master of organisation. if you say yes to every question I asked, you must be a hard time Horoscope believer then. > Christ said, "Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit." We need to get out of > our body by meditation under the guidance of the Master, and then we can > start on the journey back to the Supreme Being in the company of the Master. > Again, your quote does not do any good in your sayings. > The True Master has the keys to our True Home. I always knew I should have lived in my neibors house... I'll go ask his key... I prever sticking to my current belief system. -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:27:56 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 55 Message-ID: <737t3d$f76@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <3656FDC4.57BC@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh42-15.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Nov 21 8:32:13 PM CST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news Life-Saver wrote in message <3656FDC4.57BC@geocities.com>... >> .... That's catchy... "LIFE-SAVERS". Sounds better than most others I've >> heard. I like orange. How do I join? Do I get to wear a uniform or >> anything? > >you must buy a pack of LIFESAVERS and dress into a giant Life-Saver. >since Red Lifesavers are the best, only the leader can wear RED. I like orange... >every >body starts to wear White, I like orange... >and as they become better, they can switch to >a path of colors leading to thee Red Lifesavers. I like orange... >but challenging the >leader is a hard task. in order to obtain his status, you must put him >into your mough, and melt him into a sweet liquid, then swallow him. I don't want to obtain his status because I like orange.... >if >you fail, he will do it to you, ending your attempt to becomming the new >leader. What a control freak... I never wanted his job in the first place. I like orange... >whatever... :-) >Lets all go jump off a cliff! Well, you're the leader... which cliff? >In case some of the readers are total feeble minds, This post was not >serious... please don't go dress up in a big Round Red suit or somthin' >...but Money contributions will still be accepted. What good will the money do once we hit the bottom of the cliff? Bart (joke, or no joke - there are certain truths to this in regard to cults) ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 21:56:58 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 106 Message-ID: <737ups$gl5@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh42-15.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Nov 21 9:01:16 PM CST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news Michael Martin wrote in message <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... >In article <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com>, > "Bart" wrote: >> It's interesting... I've heard of SOOOOOOO many paths popping up that >>warn against taking up your own path. Each one of them were formed by an >> individual who took their own path... >> >> People have been referred to as "sheep" for centuries. Needing guidance >>and supplying something of benefit for the shepard and Master - while the >>sheep go in for a fleecing... Eventually, in some cases, slaughter. >> >> Martin would do better not to call himself a master. It's best for >>others to call him such a thing - if they ever see the qualities of a "Master" >>in him. The Master is in everyone - else they are not alive. > >God is in us, and so is Satan. That's true, as far as I'm concerned. I've been around the "Light and Sound" paths long enough to understand the teaching that "Satan" is an aspect of "God" in the lower realms of duality. To grow beyond this nasty volley of "Satan" and "God" - we must learn to mate the two into the next level of consciousness. This being a spiritual realm without direct opposites. Knowing this does not make me a master. >>Look inward and be honest with yourself. That's how one >> finds the Master. >We can't look inward, unless we have a Master to teach us how to do it. Oh... silly me... >Nobody has ever realized God without a Master. Well, of course not. Spirit is The Master and lives inside each of us. There is no way to find The Master without involving The Master. >If you look inward, you might >be staring down the throat of Satan. Gee... I'd hope he'd brushed... We could also be looking up God's butt. In the land of dualities, it's all a point of view. "God" and "Satan" sit in equal thrones on a balance. At the fulcrum of the balance, "LOVE" reigns. LOVE supports them both in their equality. There is no battle, once you see the fulcrum. To see the fulcrum, one must go inside. Hint - if it looks like a throat or a butt - that's not the fulcrum... ;-) To enter the fulcrum of LOVE - one must be completely balanced - having no bitterness toward "Satan" nor intense addiction to righteousness - only a state of unconditional LOVE. > Follow that Master and no other. > >You would be following Satan, unless you had a True Master to quide you. Satan's on the left... God is on the right... Love is in the middle, being carried by a Light... (copyright 1998 by Bart Scott) >> ....of course... this is only an opinion.... > >Thanks for your opinion. I expressed mine, also. >> >> Bart >> >Michael Martin >A Spiritual Master Does "A Spiritual Master" have an "opinion"? Aren't they supposed to have the "Truth" - instead of just an "opinion"? I think I've met at least one. He didn't have an "opinion". But, then again, he didn't call himself a master either - I simply recognized him as being one. There are other spiritually talented individuals who I would say have mastered certain aspects of spirituality - but I would only identify them as a "Master" of a certain aspect of Spirit. Much as a martial arts expert is considered a Master of the specific craft. A "Spiritual Master" should be an expert in all levels of Spirituality. A "Spiritual Master" would know better than to add that title to their own signature because humility is one of the first things a person learns on their way to mastership - and it is one of the first things a seeker should look for as they begin their journey. Michael, I'm convinced you are an accomplished traveler. I've read some of your stuff in other circles. I think you could be of some benefit to this newsgroup. But I really must suggest that you drop the "A Spiritual Master" signature while you are here, because... the "up-turned nose" reveals boogers... If you want to save somebody in this newsgroup, you gotta show 'em you are not a twit. Get off the pedestal and get down in here where the crap is happening. You are not a master until someone else gives you that title. You cannot be a master until you serve the poor. Bart ###### From: Lucid Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: 21 Nov 1998 23:01:24 PST Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 56 Message-ID: <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts012d41.oak-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master > We have absolutely no control over our destiny. Christ said, "Even the hairs > on our head are numbered." We are born with everything numbered. Our > breaths, our steps, our heartbeats, our wealth, our children, our education, > our morsels of food, etc, etc... We can't change our destiny. We are born > with it and we will go through it, whether we like it or not. > > The point of living is to find a Master, and learn from him the way to > achieve oneness with the Supreme Being. That is the purpose of life. We > must learn how to do spiritual meditation, and realize the Lord by stages. > Christ said, "Flesh is flesh, and spirit is spirit." We need to get out of > our body by meditation under the guidance of the Master, and then we can > start on the journey back to the Supreme Being in the company of the Master. > > We have to pass through eight spiritual stages to behold the Supreme Being in > his most perfect form. We need a Master to reach there. The True Master has > the keys to our True Home. > > That's my opinion. > > > > Michael Martin > A Spiritual Master > > > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own > > > > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own Hey Master Mike, What's up with Christ this and Christ that? Don't you have any opinions of your own? Do you think everything that Christ said is right? How about this...in Mark 7:25-30, when a Greek woman approached Him and asked him to exorcise her daughter of the spirit that possessed her. Jesus told her that it was not right to give the bread of the children to dogs, meaning that His teachings and His help were not for 'Gentiles' (the Jewish term for non Jews). He also told his disciples that they should go forth and spread His message only to the Children of Israel, and not the Gentiles. These days, He would be accused of racism for talking like this! That's my opinion. In the black, there is some white; In the wrong, there is some right; In the dark, there is some light. -lucid- ###### Message-ID: <36586514.10E8@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <737ups$gl5@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:26:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.68 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 14:26:43 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news3.bellglobal.com!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > Satan's on the left... > God is on the right... > Love is in the middle, > being carried by a Light... > (copyright 1998 by Bart Scott) I am a lefty... am I a satanist?? oh! no wait! everything is inversed in the human body... left eye to right brain... than I am a Godist oh! no wait! I still make my deeds by using me left hand, therefor I am a disciple of satan!. oh! no wait! My left arm is controled by my right brain! so I am a disciple of God. oh! no wait! I am in the middle! like the yin and yang!, no good without bad! no bad without good!... a BALANCE of the two!... so thats what the BALANCE look like! the folcrom is not LOVE! its ME!!!! makes sense? Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Sun, 22 Nov 1998 17:58:49 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 9 Message-ID: <73a57e$51o@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <737ups$gl5@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <36586514.10E8@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-25.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Nov 22 5:03:10 PM CST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Life-Saver wrote in message <36586514.10E8@geocities.com>... >BALANCE look like! the folcrom is not LOVE! its ME!!!! What are you? ###### From: kevnjon@aol.comREMOVE (KevNJon) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Nov 1998 05:10:17 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> Message-ID: <19981123001017.28206.00001992@ng21.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article "My opinion of the meaning of life," Life-Saver writes: >Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, >travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, >we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! Yes, if you haven't reached a sort of spiritual purity. In my limited experience with OBEs (which though limited has been rather intense and enlightening), I've come to look upon corporeal existence as a test. The bright Elysian fields I've flown over, while appealing to the senses, have had a certain hollowness about them. The entities I've encountered there, upon questioning, have revealed themselves to be happy on the outside but tortured on the inside. My belief is that the souls who populate that realm haven't found a route to the Creator. So, yes, when we die, some of us become spirits who "live anywhere," "havin' fun and all," as you put it, but that's just the beginning, and a rather short-sighted one at that. In fact, in its own way, it's rather hellish. That scenario is what Dante portrayed in "The Purgatorio." The ultimate trip is to put all false re-creations of corpereal life behind oneself and to spend eternity--a time that seems to take no time and yet is timeless--in the brilliant white light and warm embrace of God. To do so requires . . . well, I don't yet quite know. I'm still trying to figure it out. Sound corny? Tough. This is a vision that has presented itself to me without my asking for it, and all I can do is pass it along. Kevin ###### Message-ID: <3659783A.825@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3654C278.3F4C@geocities.com> <7356lf$1qn@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> <736o15$tp2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <737ups$gl5@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <36586514.10E8@geocities.com> <73a57e$51o@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:00:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.79 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:00:38 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Bart wrote: > > Life-Saver wrote in message <36586514.10E8@geocities.com>... > > >BALANCE look like! the folcrom is not LOVE! its ME!!!! > > What are you? I don't know! ... ... ... ... I'm scared! (in a ralph wiggum voice) -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <36597871.56F6@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <19981123001017.28206.00001992@ng21.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:01:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.79 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:01:32 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail KevNJon wrote: > > In article "My opinion of the meaning of life," > Life-Saver writes: > > >Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, > >travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, > >we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! > > Yes, if you haven't reached a sort of spiritual purity. In my limited > experience with OBEs (which though limited has been rather intense and > enlightening), I've come to look upon corporeal existence as a test. The bright > Elysian fields I've flown over, while appealing to the senses, have had a > certain hollowness about them. The entities I've encountered there, upon > questioning, have revealed themselves to be happy on the outside but tortured > on the inside. My belief is that the souls who populate that realm haven't > found a route to the Creator. So, yes, when we die, some of us become spirits > who "live anywhere," "havin' fun and all," as you put it, but that's just the > beginning, and a rather short-sighted one at that. In fact, in its own way, > it's rather hellish. That scenario is what Dante portrayed in "The > Purgatorio." The ultimate trip is to put all false re-creations of corpereal > life behind oneself and to spend eternity--a time that seems to take no time > and yet is timeless--in the brilliant white light and warm embrace of God. To > do so requires . . . well, I don't yet quite know. I'm still trying to figure > it out. > > Sound corny? Tough. This is a vision that has presented itself to me without my > asking for it, and all I can do is pass it along. > > Kevin nice!... but I still wonder if one can seek enlightement only in physical state... can someone have "his revelation" as a spirit? -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: SweetVenom@usa.net (SweetVenom Bobby) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:59:11 GMT Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: 23 Nov 1998 15:59:13 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Mon Nov 23 08:05:27 1998 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Lines: 36 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: pool004-max1.covina-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net Message-ID: <365b8501.2965565@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.217.77.43!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail IF that were true how could one explain people being incarnated into situations which are not fun and inviting. People born to people who beat and molest kids. Someone born into starvation etc. One would have to be really bored to consider starvation as entertainment. Life-Saver wrote: >I recently though about something... which constructed itself even >further while trying to understand more than just the movie (what dreams >may come.) > >Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, >travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, >we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! >(like: Hey! Lets got to the Internet cafe and Duke Match out little) >something that could be like saying to your best spirit friend: >"Hey! Lets have a life (trip) in autralia... its a cool place to live!" >so the two spirit goes to australia and reincarnate there, moving all >their previous memory to the subcountious(so the new born will not >recall anything from past life (althow it can be recalled through other >means later), and starting a new experiment... the subcountious will >find the his friend, and the two will usually become best friends >again... :)... > >or could it be that someone will reincarnate close to their old family, >and the guy could BE his own greater grand-pa. just to stay close to his >family?... if this is true, it could explain the meaning of destiny... > >and again, if a friend wants to go back, the other one can stay and >watch his life... help him out a little ---> guardian angel > >I like this vision... its as if life was a big computer from the >future... Bob ###### From: null@void.void (Enigma) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 18:16:52 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.244.41 Lines: 42 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!relay.news.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!209.161.244.41 On 21 Nov 1998 23:01:24 PST, Lucid wrote: > Hey Master Mike, > >What's up with Christ this and Christ that? Don't you have any opinions of your >own? Do you think everything that Christ said is right? How about this...in Mark >7:25-30, when a Greek woman approached Him and asked him to exorcise her daughter of >the spirit that possessed her. Jesus told her that it was not right to give the >bread of the children to dogs, meaning that His teachings and His help were not for >'Gentiles' (the Jewish term for non Jews). He also told his disciples that they >should go forth and spread His message only to the Children of Israel, and not the >Gentiles. These days, He would be accused of racism for talking like this! > >That's my opinion. Hi Lucid, I must say I'm a bit surprised at your comments here. I'm not a Christian, nor have I studied the Bible, but I looked up the passage in Mark that you mentioned above and it seems your interpretation may not be entirely correct. (This isn't a Chritian or religious newsgroup so I'll keep this short.) In paragraph (verse?) 29 it says, "And he [Jesus] said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." From this it can be seen that Jesus apparently did heal the woman's daughter, so apparently he did have compassion for Gentiles as well. I don't know whether Jesus actually told his disciples to *only* spread his teachings to the Children of Israel, but maybe he had his reasons at the time. If Jesus truly was a sage, his motives for saying such things might not be readily apparent to the non-enlightened. At any rate, Jesus's teachings have survived to this day, so he must have done something right it seems to me. Many of the passages in the Bible appear cryptic enough to me that it seems there could be many interpretations of what was actually being said. I think we should all be careful about assuming that our particular interpretations of spiritual writings are the one true interpretation, unless of course we are enlightened. :-) Sorry, belief bashing never sits well with me. regards, Enigma ###### From: Lucid Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: 23 Nov 1998 21:43:17 PST Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 117 Message-ID: <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts007d10.oak-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master Enigma wrote: > On 21 Nov 1998 23:01:24 PST, Lucid wrote: > > > Hey Master Mike, > > > >What's up with Christ this and Christ that? Don't you have any opinions of your > >own? Do you think everything that Christ said is right? How about this...in Mark > >7:25-30, when a Greek woman approached Him and asked him to exorcise her daughter of > >the spirit that possessed her. Jesus told her that it was not right to give the > >bread of the children to dogs, meaning that His teachings and His help were not for > >'Gentiles' (the Jewish term for non Jews). He also told his disciples that they > >should go forth and spread His message only to the Children of Israel, and not the > >Gentiles. These days, He would be accused of racism for talking like this! > > > >That's my opinion. > > Hi Lucid, I must say I'm a bit surprised at your comments here. Hi Enigma, it suprised me too...and I'll tell you why. > I'm not a Christian, nor have I studied the Bible, but I looked up the > passage in Mark that you mentioned above and it seems your > interpretation may not be entirely correct. (This isn't a Chritian or > religious newsgroup so I'll keep this short.) I never said that my interpretation was correct...for all I know, it could be totally wrong. All I wanted to do was to bring up a point. One that is often overlooked from religious fanatics like Master Mike.But thanks for keeping it short...I know how these things can drag out. > In paragraph (verse?) 29 it says, "And he [Jesus] said unto her, For > this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." From > this it can be seen that Jesus apparently did heal the woman's > daughter, so apparently he did have compassion for Gentiles as well. That was my mistake, I didn't finish the rest of the story...I was trying to keep it short :-DShe had to persisted, and said that the dogs may eat the crumbs that fall from the table, at which, Jesus relented, and helped her. But why, if He was all compassionate and loving, should He have hesitated to helped her in the first place? Now, my original interpretation when I read this was that he must wanted the woman to have faith that the healing could work...so he pretend to give her a hard time. But then again, a woman with a sick child came to to you. in an emergency...wouldn't it be easier if He would just heal her daughter? Now, I wasn't there...and you wasn't there when this happened? So how can you tell who interpretation is right and who is wrong? In all honesty, I hoped that mine is wrong. I really suprise myself when I thought of this....but then I think to myself...how can I logically said that any such possibility couldn't exist? I am not saying this because I have something against Christians...I realized that a lot of good have came from this religion...just look at Mother Theresa for example. But a lot of bad stuff also came out of it because of misinterpretation. My point...IMO...is that Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, and all other dead religious leaders are just human beings. They were borned...by women by the way...and they died...like all human beings. They have bodily functions...they all have to go to the bathroom to get rid of their excretions like we do. Now, they may have reach a high peak of enlightenment...but they are still human...and human make mistake. Can you said that there is not one tiny once of possibility that they couldn't make any mistake whatsoever? Just look at Buddha and other leaders...they were humble and great, but what's with all the ridiculous rules that they make up to keep their followers together. What time to eat, what time to pray, how many times should ones pray during the day....it goes on and on. > I don't know whether Jesus actually told his disciples to *only* spread > his teachings to the Children of Israel, but maybe he had his reasons > at the time. Maybe, maybe not...since we were not there when he told them, how can you said that yours interpretation is anymore valid than mine? Lars, can you hurry up and finish that time machine of yours. > If Jesus truly was a sage, his motives for saying such > things might not be readily apparent to the non-enlightened. So you're saying that a "sage" is not a "human being"?...a sage never make any mistake? Whoa...I hope I'll never become a sage...because that's one hell of a pressure to put on somebody. Maybe we should call them "God" instead of "Sage". And I think this is how the "Son of God" came about. Jesus followers wanted him to be so perfect that they placed him up to this pinnacle ...but since there already is a "God"....he just have to settle for "Son of God" :-D...and you know "God" don't make mistake. > At any rate, Jesus's teachings have survived to this day, so he must have > done something right it seems to me. Hindu traditions of many Gods survived to this day...and they were much older then the Christian tradition. So does that make them automatically right? How about the buddhist?But I agreed with you. No doubt that they all did something right...but are they 100% right on everything? If they are, why then do we have so many different religions...and different fractions within a religion? That's my point. > Many of the passages in the Bible > appear cryptic enough to me that it seems there could be many > interpretations of what was actually being said. I think we should all > be careful about assuming that our particular interpretations of > spiritual writings are the one true interpretation, unless of course > we are enlightened. :-) I didn't assumed anything, and I'm not anywhere near any kind of enlightenment. And why should I be careful if I wanted to assume? How can we learn anything if we don't question and take everything at face value. In my post at the end...I did put in the line... "that's my opinion"...I didn't said that is was a true interpretation or anything....Just "my opinion" > Sorry, belief bashing never sits well with > me. And that's your prerogative ...and I respect that. > regards, > Enigma The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced. lucid ###### Message-ID: <365A093D.7ABE@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <365b8501.2965565@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:19:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.88 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:19:24 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail SweetVenom Bobby wrote: > > IF that were true how could one explain people being incarnated into > situations which are not fun and inviting. People born to people who beat > and molest kids. Someone born into starvation etc. One would have to be > really bored to consider starvation as entertainment. > think about it this way. Someone is having a baby, no one is claiming the life to be, so a new one is created... the one is having a pathetic life, and when he dies, he either go to another place, of if he has no idea of what is going on he gets back into another new born and does another life there. until someone come to show him the possibilities... this is because, no new born can come to life hollow, without a soul, so if no one claimed the place, a new one should be created... by God of whatever... :) my theory is still holding. -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### Message-ID: <365A0AD7.6DE7@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 49 Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:26:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.88 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:26:14 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news3.bellglobal.com!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Enigma wrote: > > On 21 Nov 1998 23:01:24 PST, Lucid wrote: > > > Hey Master Mike, > > > >What's up with Christ this and Christ that? Don't you have any opinions of your > >own? Do you think everything that Christ said is right? How about this...in Mark > >7:25-30, when a Greek woman approached Him and asked him to exorcise her daughter of > >the spirit that possessed her. Jesus told her that it was not right to give the > >bread of the children to dogs, meaning that His teachings and His help were not for > >'Gentiles' (the Jewish term for non Jews). He also told his disciples that they > >should go forth and spread His message only to the Children of Israel, and not the > >Gentiles. These days, He would be accused of racism for talking like this! > > > >That's my opinion. > > Hi Lucid, I must say I'm a bit surprised at your comments here. I'm > not a Christian, nor have I studied the Bible, but I looked up the > passage in Mark that you mentioned above and it seems your > interpretation may not be entirely correct. (This isn't a Chritian or > religious newsgroup so I'll keep this short.) > > In paragraph (verse?) 29 it says, "And he [Jesus] said unto her, For > this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." From > this it can be seen that Jesus apparently did heal the woman's > daughter, so apparently he did have compassion for Gentiles as well. I > don't know whether Jesus actually told his disciples to *only* spread > his teachings to the Children of Israel, but maybe he had his reasons > at the time. If Jesus truly was a sage, his motives for saying such > things might not be readily apparent to the non-enlightened. At any > rate, Jesus's teachings have survived to this day, so he must have > done something right it seems to me. Many of the passages in the Bible > appear cryptic enough to me that it seems there could be many > interpretations of what was actually being said. I think we should all true... i was told that the Bible was an extremely bad traduction of the real original Bible. written in hebrew i think... a language that was composed only of capital letters (or vowel) and that was though only orally... anyway. I was also told that at every 7 letters, (number of God) there was secret message and that they found some old scrools in India, that were the exact same text (once traducted) This was totaly unverified by me. One of my "God fanatical" friend told me all this. thinks I keep in memory, not to ignore, but not to believe either. Cya! Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: null@void.void (Enigma) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:24:42 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.242.146 Lines: 177 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!relay.news.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!209.161.242.146 On 23 Nov 1998 21:43:17 PST, Lucid wrote: >Enigma wrote: > >> On 21 Nov 1998 23:01:24 PST, Lucid wrote: >> > Hey Master Mike, >> > >> >What's up with Christ this and Christ that? Don't you have any opinions of your >> >own? Do you think everything that Christ said is right? How about this...in Mark >> >7:25-30, when a Greek woman approached Him and asked him to exorcise her daughter of >> >the spirit that possessed her. Jesus told her that it was not right to give the >> >bread of the children to dogs, meaning that His teachings and His help were not for >> >'Gentiles' (the Jewish term for non Jews). He also told his disciples that they >> >should go forth and spread His message only to the Children of Israel, and not the >> >Gentiles. These days, He would be accused of racism for talking like this! >> > >> >That's my opinion. >> >> Hi Lucid, I must say I'm a bit surprised at your comments here. > >Hi Enigma, it suprised me too...and I'll tell you why. Heheh, I guess I asked for it. :-) >> I'm not a Christian, nor have I studied the Bible, but I looked up the >> passage in Mark that you mentioned above and it seems your >> interpretation may not be entirely correct. (This isn't a Chritian or >> religious newsgroup so I'll keep this short.) > >I never said that my interpretation was correct...for all I know, it could be totally >wrong. All I wanted to do was to bring up a point. One that is often overlooked from >religious fanatics like Master Mike.But thanks for keeping it short...I know how these >things can drag out. Sorry, it sure seemed to me that you were stating your interpretation as if it were an accepted interpretation. >> In paragraph (verse?) 29 it says, "And he [Jesus] said unto her, For >> this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." From >> this it can be seen that Jesus apparently did heal the woman's >> daughter, so apparently he did have compassion for Gentiles as well. > >That was my mistake, I didn't finish the rest of the story...I was trying to keep it >short :-DShe had to persisted, and said that the dogs may eat the crumbs that fall from >the table, at which, Jesus relented, and helped her. But why, if He was all >compassionate and loving, should He have hesitated to helped her in the first place? That goes back to my point. I think it is difficult to know what his true motives were, especially if Jesus was an enlightened being. I think it would be a mistake to judge a true sage (allowing that they exist) by the same criteria that we judge an ordinary man. A sage may be working at levels that we can't even begin to understand at our ordinary level. Do you allow that this is possible? >Now, my original interpretation when I read this was that he must wanted the woman to >have faith that the healing could work...so he pretend to give her a hard time. But then >again, a woman with a sick child came to to you. in an emergency...wouldn't it be easier >if He would just heal her daughter? Maybe if Jesus were an ordinary man, but an ordinary man couldn't do all the things that were ascribed to Jesus, assuming the stories are accurate. >Now, I wasn't there...and you wasn't there when this happened? So how can you tell who >interpretation is right and who is wrong? In all honesty, I hoped that mine is wrong. I Well, I didn't give an interpretation. I only stated that Jesus was supposed to have cured the woman's daughter, which is what it said in the passage I quoted. I also pointed out that I think we can't really know for sure what Jesus's motives were. >My point...IMO...is that Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, and all other dead religious leaders >are just human beings. They were borned...by women by the way...and they died...like all >human beings. They have bodily functions...they all have to go to the bathroom to get >rid of their excretions like we do. Now, they may have reach a high peak of >enlightenment...but they are still human...and human make mistake. Can you said that >there is not one tiny once of possibility that they couldn't make any mistake whatsoever? No, I didn't say that and I didn't mean to imply that either. Some people might argue that a truly enlightened person would be above such things, but I wouldn't know for certain, one way or the other. I allow that it is possible though. >Just look at Buddha and other leaders...they were humble and great, but what's with all >the ridiculous rules that they make up to keep their followers together. What time to >eat, what time to pray, how many times should ones pray during the day....it goes on and >on. Here again I would hesistate to assume that these rules are necessarily ridiculous. Spiritual teachings may appear ridiculous or illogical when evaluated from the standpoint of things in the ordinary world. However, the possibility exists that in order to break out of the normal mental framework of the ordinary world that we may have to follow a completely different set of rules that are valid at deeper levels, but which don't appear to make a lot of sense when viewed from the perspective of the ordinary world. That is not to say that some or many of the spiritual practices that have come into practice over the years are not faulty, as spiritual teachings may well have become distorted from the original teachings over time. >> I don't know whether Jesus actually told his disciples to *only* spread >> his teachings to the Children of Israel, but maybe he had his reasons >> at the time. > >Maybe, maybe not...since we were not there when he told them, how can you said that yours >interpretation is anymore valid than mine? Lars, can you hurry up and finish that time >machine of yours. I think you missed the point. I didn't offer an interpretation, I was trying to say that we can't really know for sure what his motives were for doing what he did, especially if he was a true sage. You seemed to be concluding that Jesus was some kind of racist, which seems quite unfounded to me, hence my comments. :-) >> If Jesus truly was a sage, his motives for saying such >> things might not be readily apparent to the non-enlightened. > >So you're saying that a "sage" is not a "human being"?...a sage never make any mistake? I said nothing of the kind. I can't imagine how you read that into what I said above. If we allow that a sage is supposed to be able to operate at much deeper levels than an ordinary person, how can an ordinary person know for certain what the sage's true motives are? That is all I was saying. >Whoa...I hope I'll never become a sage...because that's one hell of a pressure to put on >somebody. Maybe we should call them "God" instead of "Sage". And I think this is how >the "Son of God" came about. Jesus followers wanted him to be so perfect that they >placed him up to this pinnacle ...but since there already is a "God"....he just have to >settle for "Son of God" :-D...and you know "God" don't make mistake. I really don't know. >> At any rate, Jesus's teachings have survived to this day, so he must have >> done something right it seems to me. > >Hindu traditions of many Gods survived to this day...and they were much older then the >Christian tradition. So does that make them automatically right? How about the You are reading things into my words that I didn't say. I didn't say that Jesus's teachings were right, I said Jesus must have done something right to have his teachings so widely spread. We were talking here about how Jesus wanted his disciples to spread his teachings, not whether Jesus's teachings were right or wrong. There is a world of difference there. >buddhist?But I agreed with you. No doubt that they all did something right...but are >they 100% right on everything? If they are, why then do we have so many different >religions...and different fractions within a religion? >That's my point. I understand that, but there is a big difference between saying that in your view, Jesus was not necessarily right about everything he did and saying Jesus was definitely wrong, because in your view he could be wrong. :-) >> Many of the passages in the Bible >> appear cryptic enough to me that it seems there could be many >> interpretations of what was actually being said. I think we should all >> be careful about assuming that our particular interpretations of >> spiritual writings are the one true interpretation, unless of course >> we are enlightened. :-) > >I didn't assumed anything, and I'm not anywhere near any kind of enlightenment. And why >should I be careful if I wanted to assume? How can we learn anything if we don't >question and take everything at face value. In my post at the end...I did put in the >line... "that's my opinion"...I didn't said that is was a true interpretation or >anything....Just "my opinion" Yes, but you seemed to be going beyond questioning and actually drawing conclusions. Hence my reply pointing out that I didn't think your conclusions were necessarily valid. :-) regards, Enigma ###### From: eric@e-phase.nl (E.C.G.) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 18:15:05 GMT Organization: XS4ALL, networking for the masses Lines: 62 Message-ID: <365be4e9.16590501@news.xs4all.nl> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A0AD7.6DE7@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dc2-modem966.dial.xs4all.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NNTP-Posting-Host: dc2-modem966.dial.xs4all.nl [194.109.131.198] X-XS4ALL-Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:15:14 CET X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.new-york.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!xs4all!not-for-mail On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:26:14 GMT, Life-Saver wrote: >Enigma wrote: >> >> On 21 Nov 1998 23:01:24 PST, Lucid wrote: >> >> > Hey Master Mike, >> > >> >What's up with Christ this and Christ that? Don't you have any opinions of your >> >own? Do you think everything that Christ said is right? How about this...in Mark >> >7:25-30, when a Greek woman approached Him and asked him to exorcise her daughter of >> >the spirit that possessed her. Jesus told her that it was not right to give the >> >bread of the children to dogs, meaning that His teachings and His help were not for >> >'Gentiles' (the Jewish term for non Jews). He also told his disciples that they >> >should go forth and spread His message only to the Children of Israel, and not the >> >Gentiles. These days, He would be accused of racism for talking like this! >> > >> >That's my opinion. >> >> Hi Lucid, I must say I'm a bit surprised at your comments here. I'm >> not a Christian, nor have I studied the Bible, but I looked up the >> passage in Mark that you mentioned above and it seems your >> interpretation may not be entirely correct. (This isn't a Chritian or >> religious newsgroup so I'll keep this short.) >> >> In paragraph (verse?) 29 it says, "And he [Jesus] said unto her, For >> this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter." From >> this it can be seen that Jesus apparently did heal the woman's >> daughter, so apparently he did have compassion for Gentiles as well. I >> don't know whether Jesus actually told his disciples to *only* spread >> his teachings to the Children of Israel, but maybe he had his reasons >> at the time. If Jesus truly was a sage, his motives for saying such >> things might not be readily apparent to the non-enlightened. At any >> rate, Jesus's teachings have survived to this day, so he must have >> done something right it seems to me. Many of the passages in the Bible >> appear cryptic enough to me that it seems there could be many >> interpretations of what was actually being said. I think we should all > >true... i was told that the Bible was an extremely bad traduction of the >real original Bible. written in hebrew i think... a language that was You mean the Old Testament. The New Testament is a collection of scriptures gathered and aproved by the early church fathers. Material like the Hag Namadi scriptures were left out because they were considered herretic scriptures.... Eric G. >composed only of capital letters (or vowel) and that was though only >orally... anyway. I was also told that at every 7 letters, (number of >God) there was secret message and that they found some old scrools in >India, that were the exact same text (once traducted) This was totaly >unverified by me. One of my "God fanatical" friend told me all this. >thinks I keep in memory, not to ignore, but not to believe either. > >Cya! >Life-Saver >life-saver@geocities.com >http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498 ###### From: Lucid Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: 24 Nov 1998 19:35:44 PST Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 40 Message-ID: <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts009d09.oak-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master > > > Yes, but you seemed to be going beyond questioning and actually > drawing conclusions. Hence my reply pointing out that I didn't think > your conclusions were necessarily valid. :-) > > regards, > Enigma Fair enough...let's assume that my conclusions were not valid? Now what? So what? Just a simple question before I go: Do you think that enlightenment men, sage, or God can make mistake? Remember...to thy self, be true. Ahh...I just couldn't leave yet :-D Now IMO again....that enlightenment people are the first one to admitted to you that they still and continue to make lots of mistake (just read stories about zen masters). It's only the deluded and egotistic that cannot admitted that they can make any mistake whatsoever; whether they are enlighten or not :-D It's just funny to me that these great Masters never professed to be perfect. Yet their followers will even kill others just to defend their Master's perfection. Don't you find that just a little bit odd? Again, these are just my opinions. "The most important of our duties, then, is to seek means by which we may destroy the delusions that can never do more then mislead us." "Let us try to inspire man with courage, with respect for his reason, with an inextinguishable love for truth, to the end that he may learn to consult his experience, and no longer be the dupe of an imagination led astray by authority ... that he may learn to found his morals on his nature, on his wants, on the real advantage of society; that he may dare to love himself; that he may become a virtuous and rational being, in which case he cannot fail to be happy." (d'Holbach, German philosopher, 1723-1789) lucid ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:23:32 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 32 Message-ID: <73g107$l9r@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh38-50.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Nov 24 8:27:51 PM PST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Lucid wrote in message <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com>... <>"The most important of our duties, then, is to seek means by which we may destroy the >delusions that can never do more then mislead us." >"Let us try to inspire man with courage, with respect for his reason, with an inextinguishable >love for truth, to the end that he may learn to consult his experience, and no longer be the >dupe of an imagination led astray by authority ... that he may learn to found his morals on >his nature, on his wants, on the real advantage of society; that he may dare to love himself; >that he may become a virtuous and rational being, in which case he cannot fail to be happy." >(d'Holbach, German philosopher, 1723-1789) > > >lucid "Virtuous and rational being"... What a goal... unattainable as a human... Nice to make an effort, though... Soul can do it - humans can't. Time for a change of view? Bart ###### From: Lucid Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: 25 Nov 1998 01:40:51 PST Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 62 Message-ID: <365BCDB6.8EC3A26F@hotmail.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> <365b8143.334529@usenet.idirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts003d14.oak-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master > Lucid, I haven't been trying to give you a hard time, although I guess > it might seem that way to you. I was just trying to express my views > on these things, and see what you thought about it. Sometimes people > come on pretty strong with their views like Michael M. did, but at > least he was fairly respectful of others in his reply. I see no > reason not to treat him back with respect. That is all I was really > trying to get at. :-) Ok, I admitted it...I was rude to the guy...like you said, there are things or people that "don't sit well with me"...I am not perfect and I admitted that. And you question that right away...and that's a good thing. I learned something about myself and hopefully you also got something out of it. But what if (and this is a big IF) I was deluded enough to call myself "full enlighten" or a Master...and if there are thousands of others that were also deluded enough to follow me...what then? According to your assumptions...would you have question me right away?...since you said that you don't really know what an "full enlighten" person would act or said? Maybe I have a different motive.... Isn't this scary? That's just my point. Granted that it may be easier to tell if the person is still alive...but what if they had died a couple of thousands years ago? And his followers throughout the centuries started making a religion out of it...started calling him a "living God"...what then? It become sacrilegious even to questions anything he said. Let me ask you enigma. How is your assumptions different from them? Granted it had a different twist...but it still based on a "concllusion"...a conclusions that there is such a being as an "enlighten being"...and this being can't be wrong whatsoever. This assumption is not new...Buddha followers had been using it for ages...don't get me wrong here, I am not trying to ditch Buddhism here...in fact I am a buddhist. But you don't know how many time I have heard it.before----don't questions, don't assume, don't jump to conclusions---you're just not enlighten--once your're enlighten--then you will "magically" know. Many buddhists monks I spoke to have a standard response....don't try oobe, this is not standard teaching of the Buddha...they always brought out the name "Buddha" to make sure that will make a strong impression...that's not the way to reach "enlightenment"...only sitting in meditation under a bodhi tree for 40 consecutive days will you reach "true enlightenment"...I am exaggerating a bit here :-D....Well? what about generations of monks who sat in meditations almost all their life...why are they not enlighten like the "Buddha"?...Again...did you hear that quiet alarm came on in the back of your mind? :-D....But gladly, these people have learned to put it out for you----Oh...Don't say that...how can you know...you're not enlighten...who are you to questions "Buddha's" method...Just stick to it...don't do anything rash like trying to go out of your body...you'll just be sorry! Can you see that assumptions like these can be use to trap followers in a mental (the spelling is correct...mental not metal...hehe) cage so that they will not be able to think for themselves? Enigma, you haven't given me a hard time at all. Because I have stop buying into these assumptions long ago...it seems that the more I oobe I have, the more I found that we are all spiritual beings...but we are not perfect..and neither are they...thus, I am not so quick to assume anything...even the most basic thing such as "enlightentment" So when I call Jesus a racist...I wasn't out to be rude to the guy...it's only rude if I share his( M mike) assumption...that Jesus is a "Supreme" beings, incapable of being wrong. But I do not...I am just expressing my "interpretation" of what Jesus said or might have said. It only seems rude to you because you share the same or almost the same assumptions that he had. But I will also stick to what I said in the beginning that I was in fact "rude" in that context...I cannot denied my prejudices there. > Happy journeys, > Enigma Thanks, lucid ###### From: null@void.void (Enigma) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 04:33:10 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <365b8143.334529@usenet.idirect.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.244.27 Lines: 73 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!relay.news.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!209.161.244.27 On 24 Nov 1998 19:35:44 PST, Lucid wrote: Enigma wrote: >> Yes, but you seemed to be going beyond questioning and actually >> drawing conclusions. Hence my reply pointing out that I didn't think >> your conclusions were necessarily valid. :-) >> >> regards, >> Enigma > > Fair enough...let's assume that my conclusions were not valid? Now what? So what? Nothing, I was just giving my point of view on your comments. That's all. :-) >Just a simple question before I go: Do you think that enlightenment men, sage, or God can >make mistake? Remember...to thy self, be true. I have no idea. I thought I had already expressed that but I guess I didn't make it very clear. I don't think that a person can really know the answer to such questions unless they reach full enlightenment themselves. Anything anyone else says is just hearsay. >Ahh...I just couldn't leave yet :-D > >Now IMO again....that enlightenment people are the first one to admitted to you that they >still and continue to make lots of mistake (just read stories about zen masters). It's only Perhaps there are many levels to enlightenment, but I don't really know one way or the other for certain. >the deluded and egotistic that cannot admitted that they can make any mistake whatsoever; >whether they are enlighten or not :-D I would sincerely doubt that an egotistical person could be enlightened. They are opposites in my view. I could be wrong of course. >It's just funny to me that these great Masters never professed to be perfect. Yet their >followers will even kill others just to defend their Master's perfection. Don't you find that >just a little bit odd? Again, these are just my opinions. Unenlightened people do all sorts of unenlightened things. To me, this goes without saying and does not surprise me at all. Unfortunately people often judge the teachings of an apparent master by the behaviour of the followers, which seems silly to me. If followers are fanatical or otherwise behave badly, that is the fault of each individual follower and not necessarily a result of the teachings which the followers may be misunderstanding, twisting, or ignoring. >"The most important of our duties, then, is to seek means by which we may destroy the >delusions that can never do more then mislead us." >"Let us try to inspire man with courage, with respect for his reason, with an inextinguishable >love for truth, to the end that he may learn to consult his experience, and no longer be the >dupe of an imagination led astray by authority ... that he may learn to found his morals on >his nature, on his wants, on the real advantage of society; that he may dare to love himself; >that he may become a virtuous and rational being, in which case he cannot fail to be happy." >(d'Holbach, German philosopher, 1723-1789) Yet our very rationally based society still has many problems. Perhaps something is still missing? Lucid, I haven't been trying to give you a hard time, although I guess it might seem that way to you. I was just trying to express my views on these things, and see what you thought about it. Sometimes people come on pretty strong with their views like Michael M. did, but at least he was fairly respectful of others in his reply. I see no reason not to treat him back with respect. That is all I was really trying to get at. :-) Happy journeys, Enigma ###### From: null@void.void (Enigma) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 17:04:07 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <365c26b1.1541915@usenet.idirect.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> <365b8143.334529@usenet.idirect.com> <365BCDB6.8EC3A26F@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.244.128 Lines: 80 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!relay.news.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!209.161.244.128 On 25 Nov 1998 01:40:51 PST, Lucid wrote: >But what if (and this is a big IF) I was deluded enough to call myself "full enlighten" or a >Master...and if there are thousands of others that were also deluded enough to follow me...what >then? According to your assumptions...would you have question me right away?...since you said that >you don't really know what an "full enlighten" person would act or said? Maybe I have a different >motive.... >Isn't this scary? That's just my point. This would probably not phase me in the slightest. As long as a person is not abusive, they can do as they like for all I care. I'm not sure what assumptions you are referring to here, as I think that I have made it clear that I try not to make any assumptions about what enlightenment is or isn't. I don't even know for certain if it is possible for a person to become enlightened, although I have an open mind about it. Maybe the "master" you hypothesize is enlightened, maybe he isn't. If other people find value in his words, that is their business. If someone wants to question things the "master" has said, that is their right as well. However, if a person starts jumping all over the "master" in a disrespectful or insulting way, then I have to wonder what that person's true motives are. Are they just trying to question what the "master" has said to see if his words hold up under scrutiny, or do they have a different motive? Think about it. If a person just wants to question what someone has said, is there any reason they can't do so in a calm and respectful way? I see no reason why not. If their questions carry an insulting tone or are emotionally charged, then it seems pretty likely to me that the person's true motives run much deeper than that. I suspect that in such a case the person is really just trying to protect their own belief system, as things the "master" is saying goes against their beliefs and this makes them feel very uncomfortable. Saying that they are concerned about the followers of the "master" being led astray, may really be just a way of trying to rationalize their feelings and behaviour. It is a different situation of course when it is known for certain that the "master" really is doing harm to his followers such as in some cults. However, many people use this as an excuse to really just try to put something down that goes against their beliefs and which makes them feel very uncomfortable How often have you seen people come into this or other newsgroups and start putting down other people and their ideas under the guise of just wanting to promote good science and rational thought? Do you think they are really just trying to promote good science, or are they trying to put things down that don't fit into their belief system? It could be either way, but if they are really just trying to promote rational thought, wouldn't it be much more effective for them to be respectful of the other person and calmly present their ideas? I think it is a very tell-tale sign when a peron's comments contain veiled insults and the like. Something else is motivating them.That's just my opinion, but it is based on years of observation. >Let me ask you enigma. How is your assumptions different from them? Granted it had a different >twist...but it still based on a "concllusion"...a conclusions that there is such a being as an >"enlighten being"...and this being can't be wrong whatsoever. This is really starting to make me wonder. I thought that I have previosuly stated fairly clearly to you that I don't know for sure if enlightenement is really possible and what it would be like if it is possible, yet you keep insisting that I am making assumptions about such things. I allow that such things might be possible, and made my comments based on that. If I didn't previously make that clear, then I hope it is clear now. :-) >It only seems rude >to you because you share the same or almost the same assumptions that he had. But I will also >stick to what I said in the beginning that I was in fact "rude" in that context...I cannot denied >my prejudices there. I'll try this one last time. :-) I make no assumptions about who Jesus was and what he did. I don't even assume that Jesus actually existed. I was just giving my views on some things you had said, which is what these newsgroups are about. Best regards, Enigma ###### From: tlin2@umbc.edu (lin tong) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: 25 Nov 1998 18:46:09 GMT Organization: University of Maryland, Baltimore County Lines: 37 Message-ID: <73hj9h$7kc$1@news.umbc.edu> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> <365b8143.334529@usenet.idirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: umbc9.umbc.edu X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!feeder.qis.net!news.umbc.edu!tlin2 Enigma (null@void.void) wrote: : >Just a simple question before I go: Do you think that enlightenment men, sage, or God can : >make mistake? Remember...to thy self, be true. : I have no idea. I thought I had already expressed that but I guess I : didn't make it very clear. I don't think that a person can really know : the answer to such questions unless they reach full enlightenment : themselves. Anything anyone else says is just hearsay. I heard that when you get enlightened, everything you do becomes right, though it might look right or wrong from unenlightened people's perspective. It's reasonable because everything is God's will, and everything is from the source - only unenlightened mind separates all this into duality - good/bad, right/wrong, etc. If you accept karma concept, everything thing is a perfect gear running in the karma machine. : I would sincerely doubt that an egotistical person could be : enlightened. They are opposites in my view. I could be wrong of : course. As I mentioned above, we can't judge an enlighened person from his outer appearance and behavior. : Unenlightened people do all sorts of unenlightened things. To me, this : goes without saying and does not surprise me at all. Unfortunately : people often judge the teachings of an apparent master by the : behaviour of the followers, which seems silly to me. If followers are : fanatical or otherwise behave badly, that is the fault of each : individual follower and not necessarily a result of the teachings : which the followers may be misunderstanding, twisting, or ignoring. Exactly. Jesus was a master full of love and wisdom. And you see what his so called followers did in the name of him. Tong ###### From: Lucid Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: 25 Nov 1998 20:50:16 PST Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 155 Message-ID: <365CDB13.20A4E6F1@hotmail.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> <365b8143.334529@usenet.idirect.com> <365BCDB6.8EC3A26F@hotmail.com> <365c26b1.1541915@usenet.idirect.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts012d39.oak-ca.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master Enigma wrote: > On 25 Nov 1998 01:40:51 PST, Lucid wrote: > > >But what if (and this is a big IF) I was deluded enough to call myself "full enlighten" or a > >Master...and if there are thousands of others that were also deluded enough to follow me...what > >then? According to your assumptions...would you have question me right away?...since you said that > >you don't really know what an "full enlighten" person would act or said? Maybe I have a different > >motive.... > >Isn't this scary? That's just my point. > > This would probably not phase me in the slightest. As long as a person > is not abusive, they can do as they like for all I care. I'm not sure > what assumptions you are referring to here, as I think that I have > made it clear that I try not to make any assumptions about what > enlightenment is or isn't. I don't even know for certain if it is > possible for a person to become enlightened, although I have an open > mind about it. Maybe the "master" you hypothesize is enlightened, > maybe he isn't. If other people find value in his words, that is their > business. What if he isn't enlightened and they use his word to promote a "superioriority" over others? > If someone wants to question things the "master" has said, that is > their right as well. However, if a person starts jumping all over the > "master" in a disrespectful or insulting way, then I have to wonder > what that person's true motives are. Are they just trying to question > what the "master" has said to see if his words hold up under scrutiny, > or do they have a different motive? Like I said, my motive is the same as yours...it just that it "didn't sit well with me"...so I just expressed my "views"...just like you...that's all. If that seems rude to you and M Mike then I apologized for that. > Think about it. If a person just > wants to question what someone has said, is there any reason they > can't do so in a calm and respectful way? What is it that was so unacceptable to you? Calling Jesus a racist? If that is the case...then let me restate me stand...I don't apologize for saying that...because that is my views right now (doesn't meant that it won't change in future)...and since either of us was there when he said these things to his followers (unless you have a time machine)...then it just my "view" and your "view"...why would that make it rude...because my "view" was different then yours? > I see no reason why not. If > their questions carry an insulting tone or are emotionally charged, > then it seems pretty likely to me that the person's true motives run > much deeper than that. If I try to know every motives that was in this ng, then I would be here all day :-D > I suspect that in such a case the person is really just trying to > protect their own belief system, That's most likely the case...as you are trying to protect yours. > as things the "master" is saying goes > against their beliefs and this makes them feel very uncomfortable. > Saying that they are concerned about the followers of the "master" > being led astray, may really be just a way of trying to rationalize > their feelings and behaviour. It is a different situation of course > when it is known for certain that the "master" really is doing harm to > his followers such as in some cults. However, many people use this as > an excuse to really just try to put something down that goes against > their beliefs and which makes them feel very uncomfortable So I am branded a bully because I expressed something that don't go well with what you're belief to be right? > How often have you seen people come into this or other newsgroups and > start putting down other people and their ideas under the guise of > just wanting to promote good science and rational thought? All the time. > Do you > think they are really just trying to promote good science, or are they > trying to put things down that don't fit into their belief system? Well, I didn't call Jesus a racist and leave it at that...that would be a put down. I try my best to explain to you how I arrived to such a painful conclusions...that as much as I wanted to believe that there is such a perfect goal such as "enlightenment"...but that is just not possible for me because of what I had experiences. As much as I wanted to...I can't say what I don't believe in. > It could be either way, but if they are really just trying to promote > rational thought, wouldn't it be much more effective for them to be > respectful of the other person and calmly present their ideas? I think > it is a very tell-tale sign when a peron's comments contain veiled > insults and the like. Something else is motivating them.That's just my > opinion, but it is based on years of observation. That is a good observation. Just because I asked a lots of questions and make some assumptions that went against the "norm"...does that make me "disrespectful"? My motivation is to say what I believe...or at least to have the courage to try. BTW...what did you think were Jesus's motives when he trashed the Scribes and Pharisees and cursed them as "hypocrites" and "vipers"? > >Let me ask you enigma. How is your assumptions different from them? Granted it had a different > >twist...but it still based on a "concllusion"...a conclusions that there is such a being as an > >"enlighten being"...and this being can't be wrong whatsoever. > > This is really starting to make me wonder. I thought that I have > previosuly stated fairly clearly to you that I don't know for sure if > enlightenement is really possible and what it would be like if it is > possible, yet you keep insisting that I am making assumptions about > such things. Forgive me, I am kind of slow here...so you are saying basically that you don't know. Ok then. I allow that such things might be possible, Oops, now you're saying that it's "may be possible"...correct me here...but am I hearing correctly what you're saying here? and made my comments based on that. So your comment is based on the assumptions that "such things might be possible"....tell me if I'm wrong here. If I didn't previously make that clear, then I > hope it is clear now. :-) Not really, but let me try to reinterate...first you saying that you don't know...but then you say that you "allow" for such a possibility...and that you based your asssumptions on the possibility that such things IS possible. Right? So what am I missing here? If you were to stick with your original assumption that you don't know...then I wouldn't have said anything...But then you start to "asssume" that there is "possibility" that it may be possible...I don't know now...I need some tylenol. > > > >It only seems rude > >to you because you share the same or almost the same assumptions that he had. But I will also > >stick to what I said in the beginning that I was in fact "rude" in that context...I cannot denied > >my prejudices there. > > I'll try this one last time. :-) I make no assumptions about who > Jesus was and what he did You're absolutely correct...but you did make some assumptions about the the state of being an enlighten person. Am I totally off here...please tell me if I am. > . I don't even assume that Jesus actually > existed. I was just giving my views on some things you had said, which > is what these newsgroups are about. And again, I appreciated your views tremendously...that's what ng are all about. I personally have learn a lot from them. But I also have my views...it might be different...but it's just my view. > Best regards, > Enigma ###### From: null@void.void (Enigma) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 06:09:51 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <365ce3d1.3767704@usenet.idirect.com> References: <36535F71.1184@geocities.com> <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <731nqm$opt$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <736oml$uh4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <3657B3E1.E046392D@hotmail.com> <3659a1b2.246513@usenet.idirect.com> <365A4485.7077D541@hotmail.com> <365a6d3f.5187145@usenet.idirect.com> <365B7821.17234172@hotmail.com> <365b8143.334529@usenet.idirect.com> <365BCDB6.8EC3A26F@hotmail.com> <365c26b1.1541915@usenet.idirect.com> <365CDB13.20A4E6F1@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.247.93 Lines: 46 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!relay.news.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!209.161.247.93 On 25 Nov 1998 20:50:16 PST, Lucid wrote: >Enigma wrote: >> This is really starting to make me wonder. I thought that I have >> previosuly stated fairly clearly to you that I don't know for sure if >> enlightenement is really possible and what it would be like if it is >> possible, yet you keep insisting that I am making assumptions about >> such things. > >Forgive me, I am kind of slow here...so you are saying basically that you don't know. Ok then. > >I allow that such things might be possible, > >Oops, now you're saying that it's "may be possible"...correct me here...but am I hearing correctly what >you're saying here? > >and made my comments based on that. > >So your comment is based on the assumptions that "such things might be possible"....tell me if I'm wrong >here. Hi Lucid, Saying I don't know if enlightenment exists and saying I allow it might be possible is not a contradiction. I could also say I don't know if there is other intelligent life in outer space but I allow that it is possible. I could then say for discussion purposes, "assuming there is intelligent life in outer space, could some of these beings be similar to Humans?" That would just be for discussion purposes, not a real assumption that intelligent life exists in outer space. Does that make any sense at all? Based on the rest of your reply, I see you seem to have concluded that I was trying to put you down. That was not my intention at all! I probably was not expressing myself clearly enough if that is what you think. I certainly wasn't trying to single you out, or anything else of the kind. If I thought you were a troll or whatever I would have never bothered to reply to you. My sincerest apologies if that is really what you thought I was trying to say. Based on that, I won't drag this out any further. I really must be a bonehead, because I thought I was just discussing some generalities of how people can react to things they don't accept, but you seem to have taken it as a personal attack. :-( Again, my apologies, Enigma ###### From: miisfiit@aol.com (MIISFIIT) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Nov 1998 19:43:37 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Message-ID: <19981126144337.13009.00000516@ng55.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail I dont agree with a thing Lifesaver said. Satan dosnt control any aspect of my life and It's up to me to make up my own destiny. ###### Message-ID: <365E0EC9.7434@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My opinion of the meaning of life References: <731dio$e3d$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <19981126144337.13009.00000516@ng55.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Fri, 27 Nov 1998 02:32:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.10 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 21:32:05 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news-nyc.telia.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail MIISFIIT wrote: > > I dont agree with a thing Lifesaver said. Satan dosnt control any aspect of my > life and It's up to me to make up my own destiny. Wooh!... I did NOT wrote that! the one who wrote about Satan controling our lives was another one! go read the FIRST message with the subject.. (if its still around...) dah! what the hey here is a copy of what I wrote: ------------------------------------------------------------------- ******************************************************************* I recently though about something... which constructed itself even further while trying to understand more than just the movie (what dreams may come.) Do you think that when we die, we become a spirit, and live anywhere, travelling through dimentions, havin fun and all, and when we get bored, we decide to go back to Earth (or else) to do a life! (like: Hey! Lets got to the Internet cafe and Duke Match out little) something that could be like saying to your best spirit friend: "Hey! Lets have a life (trip) in autralia... its a cool place to live!" so the two spirit goes to australia and reincarnate there, moving all their previous memory to the subcountious(so the new born will not recall anything from past life (althow it can be recalled through other means later), and starting a new experiment... the subcountious will find the his friend, and the two will usually become best friends again... :)... or could it be that someone will reincarnate close to their old family, and the guy could BE his own greater grand-pa. just to stay close to his family?... if this is true, it could explain the meaning of destiny... and again, if a friend wants to go back, the other one can stay and watch his life... help him out a little ---> guardian angel I like this vision... its as if life was a big computer from the future... - ******************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- hehe... see? completely the oposite! gnaha! -- Life-Saver life-saver@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/5498