From: "Peter Davies" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 18:07:45 -0500 Organization: Interlog Internet Services Lines: 73 Message-ID: <71qmpo$4f7$1@news.interlog.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-20-9-156.dialin.interlog.com NNTP-Posting-Time: 4 Nov 1998 23:08:40 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed.interlog.com!news.interlog.com!not-for-mail I have followed a couple of threads which talk about Randi's challenge. After visiting his website, I decided to give him my own challenge. I thought that some of you guys here may be interested, so I have taken the liberty to post it below. I welcome any comments. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Right off the bat, let me say that I am not taking you up on your challenge. I have not had any of the experiences you do not believe to be genuine. I am also a skeptic but clearly not as dyed-in-the-wool as yourself. I am contacting you because I am really interested in your motivation for such a challenge. The downside for you would be having to fork out a million dollars. The upside is only, it seems to me, to confirm a belief you already have! Even if the downside has a very low probability it does not seem a reasonable wager to me. The people who claim such experiences fall into two categories, independent of the validity of such experiences: 1) Those who are con-artists, seeking money and/or fame. 2) Those who genuinely believe such experiences are valid. If your purpose is to expose those in category 1, then you are performing a public service. If it is (and your webpage seems to support this somewhat) simply to embarrass those in category 2, and so you can say to the world (and yourself) that you are right, then your challenge is unworthy. My own interest is in areas such as lucid dreaming (hardly a psychic phenomenon, since this simply means being aware one is dreaming) and out-of-body experiences (whatever they are). I am not particularly interested in whether the latter are "real" in any scientific sense. I am interested in the experience itself and whatever I can glean from it. I would strongly suggest, if you are at all open minded, that you read "Eye to Eye", by Ken Wilber. In fact, you only need read the first chapter. If you can take it in, I think you will see that the whole idea of scientific proof of spiritual experiences is an error (what Wilber calls a category error). It is the same error that scientists prior to Galileo, Kepler and Newton made when they attempted to use reasoning alone to evaluate physical theories. You are simply using empiricism to an inappropriate area, just as it is a mistake to use empiricism in areas such as mathematics, logic and philosophy. If you can handle it, Wilber goes further and demonstrates that there is a methodology which can be applied to spiritual matters which is as valid as the use of empiricism in the physical sciences and of reasoning where appropriate. This methodology, in fact, parallels the other two methodologies. So here is my challenge for you. Read the above mentioned chapter, with an open mind, and then respond with your comments. Looking forward to hearing from you. Peter Davies ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- ************************************************************************* To reply via e-mail, please remove the Monty Python "Viking" song from my address above. If you don't understand this reference, it's easy to figure out what to remove. ************************************************************************* ###### From: Joseph Buggy Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:53:46 +0000 Organization: AXYS Pharmaceuticals Lines: 16 Message-ID: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> Reply-To: Joseph_Buggy@axyspharm.com NNTP-Posting-Host: fw-sf.axyspharm.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-xfer.geo.net!geo.net!not-for-mail There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many sources) to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate this ability. Joe ###### From: "Peter Davies" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 13:51:05 -0500 Organization: Interlog Internet Services Lines: 26 Message-ID: <71vgf6$b2e$1@news.interlog.com> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-20-7-64.dialin.interlog.com NNTP-Posting-Time: 6 Nov 1998 18:51:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!newsfeed.interlog.com!news.interlog.com!not-for-mail Joseph Buggy wrote in message <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com>... > > >There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of >James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk >people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a >service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided >that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many >sources) to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if >such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize >might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate >this ability. > > I wish you were correct in your somewhat naive view of his motives. Try the following experiment. Second him an e-mail, asking for his motivation. I did just that and received in return verbal abuse for daring to ask. Peter Davies ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:05:21 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 55 Message-ID: <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.75 X-Trace: 910406600 I0G4.QBCE5F4BCF30C usenet53.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail I think it is important to note that randi takes pride in exposing people who are conning the innocent public. There is not a lot about OOB experiences that are conducive to a con. Well, maybe charging people for the information on how to do it. . . -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net Bob Powers wrote in message <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus>... >Hi Joe, > >I think we can nip this whole discussion right in the bud. >I'd like to suggest that the Traveller's next monthly full-moon >trip be taken to the back yard of Mr. Randi. Naturally, >we should get his permission for this. There's got to be >someone among us that can make enough noise to >convince the gentleman that OOBE is valid. Perhaps, >somebody coming in a high rate of speed and thumping >up against the side of the house? Joe, I guess you'd be >invited to come along too. Anyone up for it? > >Bob P. > > >Joseph Buggy wrote in article ><3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com>... >> >> >> There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of >> James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk >> people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a >> service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided >> that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many >> sources) to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if >> such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize >> might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate >> this ability. >> >> >> >> Joe >> >> ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 20:11:56 -0500 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 28 Message-ID: <72070g$nme@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-14.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Nov 06 7:16:00 PM CST 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.enteract.com!ix.netcom.com!news Bob Powers wrote in message <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus>... >Hi Joe, > >I think we can nip this whole discussion right in the bud. >I'd like to suggest that the Traveller's next monthly full-moon >trip be taken to the back yard of Mr. Randi. Naturally, >we should get his permission for this. There's got to be >someone among us that can make enough noise to >convince the gentleman that OOBE is valid. Perhaps, >somebody coming in a high rate of speed and thumping >up against the side of the house? Joe, I guess you'd be >invited to come along too. Anyone up for it? > >Bob P. HA! Picking on me again? :-) If you ARE referring to my, um, minor navigation problems... Then perhaps Randi should alert all of his neighbors as well. Ouch!! Bart ###### From: "Bob Powers" Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> Message-ID: <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 34 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 21:26:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.167.97.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shore.net X-Trace: news.shore.net 910387563 204.167.97.202 (Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:26:03 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 16:26:03 EDT Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.shore.net!not-for-mail Hi Joe, I think we can nip this whole discussion right in the bud. I'd like to suggest that the Traveller's next monthly full-moon trip be taken to the back yard of Mr. Randi. Naturally, we should get his permission for this. There's got to be someone among us that can make enough noise to convince the gentleman that OOBE is valid. Perhaps, somebody coming in a high rate of speed and thumping up against the side of the house? Joe, I guess you'd be invited to come along too. Anyone up for it? Bob P. Joseph Buggy wrote in article <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com>... > > > There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of > James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk > people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a > service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided > that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many > sources) to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if > such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize > might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate > this ability. > > > > Joe > > ###### From: chester basshead Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:10:54 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-ELN-Date: Fri Nov 6 23:15:04 1998 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 25 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust163.tnt5.lax1.da.uu.net Message-ID: <3643F27D.8B8377AD@earthlink.nXXXet> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail Joseph Buggy wrote: > There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of > James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk > people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a > service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided > that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many > sources) to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if > such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize > might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate > this ability. > > Joe intice, huh? never heard of that word.. where did you get your P.H.D. again? 'e' and 'i' are pretty far from one another on my keyboard, what about yours?? all in jest.. :-D -brian ###### From: "Bob Powers" Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <72070g$nme@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <01be0a04$9dc51b40$ca61a7cc@odysseus> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 39 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:10:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.167.97.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shore.net X-Trace: news.shore.net 910411846 204.167.97.202 (Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:10:46 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:10:46 EDT Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.shore.net!not-for-mail Bart wrote in article <72070g$nme@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>... > > Bob Powers wrote in message <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus>... > >Hi Joe, > > > >I think we can nip this whole discussion right in the bud. > >I'd like to suggest that the Traveller's next monthly full-moon > >trip be taken to the back yard of Mr. Randi. Naturally, > >we should get his permission for this. There's got to be > >someone among us that can make enough noise to > >convince the gentleman that OOBE is valid. Perhaps, > >somebody coming in a high rate of speed and thumping > >up against the side of the house? Joe, I guess you'd be > >invited to come along too. Anyone up for it? > > > >Bob P. > > > HA! Picking on me again? :-) > > If you ARE referring to my, um, minor navigation problems... Then perhaps > Randi should alert all of his neighbors as well. > > Ouch!! > > Bart > Bart, cross my heart and hope to OOBE, I would never think of that.... umm... well, okay, maybe it crossed my mind. But just imagine, the impression it would make :-)) ....... Bob P. ###### From: "Bob Powers" Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> Message-ID: <01be0a06$c3bbd120$ca61a7cc@odysseus> X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Lines: 27 Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 04:26:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.167.97.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shore.net X-Trace: news.shore.net 910412768 204.167.97.202 (Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:26:08 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 23:26:08 EDT Organization: Shore.Net/Eco Software, Inc; (info@shore.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!209.244.253.199!newsfeed.xcom.net!news.shore.net!not-for-mail To tell you the truth, Richard, I'm not very familiar with the gentleman and hadn't considered this as a possible motivation for his challenge. I guess I assumed he was seeking a demonstration of real psychic phenomenon. Bob P. Richard wrote in article <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com>... > I think it is important to note that randi takes pride in exposing people > who are conning the innocent public. There is not a lot about OOB > experiences that are conducive to a con. Well, maybe charging people for the > information on how to do it. . . > > -- > RBWalton > > Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . > www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ > > To respond, delete #nospam# > rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net > > ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Sat, 07 Nov 1998 21:23:39 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 48 Message-ID: <364a9df0.17610906@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b3-22.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:53:46 +0000, Joseph Buggy wrote: >There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of >James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk >people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a >service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided >that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many >sources) Your proof that Randi has $1,000,000 is ? Don't waste our time by referring us to a web page. Such an exercise is for gullible people too lazy to "check their facts". ALSO don't bother telling me how *I* can confirm he has $1,000,000. YOU are the one who says he has it. Prove it to us. >to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if >such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize >might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate >this ability. "He hopes" ? Since when have you become spokesperson for Randi ? Cannot he speak for himself ? He is on the internet so I doubt that he needs to have you speak for him. Anyone familiar with the challenge/Randi could just as easily say that "he hopes to get as much publicity for himself as he can and also to have the maximum opportunity to ridicule people whose beliefs he disagrees with." Obviously you know little about how the challenge and/or Randi work. Randi has the "right" to reject any challenger he likes. If someone looks like they might win then he can simply deny them the opportunity and keep his *supposed* money. >Joe Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Sun, 8 Nov 1998 12:42:32 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 46 Message-ID: <7250n9$clj$1@supernews.com> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> <01be0a06$c3bbd120$ca61a7cc@odysseus> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.81 X-Trace: 910558761 I0G4.QBCE5F51CF30C usenet78.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail He appears to be interested, but I think his underlying belief is that people who claim to do any thing out of the normal are fakes or frauds. -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net Bob Powers wrote in message <01be0a06$c3bbd120$ca61a7cc@odysseus>... >To tell you the truth, Richard, I'm not very familiar with the >gentleman and hadn't considered this as a possible motivation >for his challenge. I guess I assumed he was seeking a >demonstration of real psychic phenomenon. > >Bob P. > > >Richard wrote in article ><720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com>... >> I think it is important to note that randi takes pride in exposing people >> who are conning the innocent public. There is not a lot about OOB >> experiences that are conducive to a con. Well, maybe charging people for >the >> information on how to do it. . . >> >> -- >> RBWalton >> >> Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . >> www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ >> >> To respond, delete #nospam# >> rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net >> >> > ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 20:54:50 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 32 Message-ID: <364fe360.11579729@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b3-59.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:05:21 -0800, "Richard" wrote: >I think it is important to note that randi takes pride in exposing people >who are conning the innocent public. < snip > It could also be suggested that Randi takes pride in belittling people who do not think the same way that he does. As for your "community service" implication of his "motives" I would suggest you ask : (1) How much time/energy/money does Randi put into trying to make anyone with an interest/belief in the paranormal look like idiots ? (2) How much time/energy/money does Randi put into investigating whether there is anything suggesting "validity" to paranormal reports ? If the answer to (2) is greater than $0.00 I would be surprised. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Message-ID: <364689C2.3001@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:20:50 -0800 From: Jennifer Spengler {wooble} Reply-To: midigal@hotmail.com Organization: I'm not organized at all, thank you. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <3643F27D.8B8377AD@earthlink.nXXXet> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: cmp136.i-america.net Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!news4.his.com!cmp136.i-america.net chester basshead wrote: > > Joseph Buggy wrote: > > > There has been speculation on this site as to the true modivations of > > James Randi. They are two-fold. One is to expose con-artists who bilk > > people out of money using false psychic powers. Indeed, this is a > > service to mankind. The second is that he and many others have decided > > that it is worth one million dollars (the money was donated from many > > sources) to have scientific verification of a true paranormal event, if > > such a thing is possible, which it may not be. He hopes that the prize > > might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and demonstrate > > this ability. > > > > Joe > > intice, huh? never heard of that word.. where did you get your P.H.D. > again? 'e' and 'i' are pretty far from one another on my keyboard, what > about yours?? > > all in jest.. :-D Ahh, but there is truth in jest! ;P ~Jen -- * Knowledge may be power, but ignorance is bliss. * * --Jennifer Spengler =P * * http://www.i-america.net/homepages/hally2000/ * * Both Sides Of the Mood** * ###### Message-ID: <36468A38.6182@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 08 Nov 1998 22:22:48 -0800 From: Jennifer Spengler {wooble} Reply-To: midigal@hotmail.com Organization: I'm not organized at all, thank you. X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <364a9df0.17610906@news.melbpc.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: cmp136.i-america.net Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newshub.northeast.verio.net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!newsroute.bconnex.ca!news.lightlink.com!news4.his.com!cmp136.i-america.net John Fitzsimons wrote: > Your proof that Randi has $1,000,000 is ? Don't waste our time by > referring us to a web page. Such an exercise is for gullible people > too lazy to "check their facts". > > ALSO don't bother telling me how *I* can confirm he has $1,000,000. > YOU are the one who says he has it. Prove it to us. AMEN, JOHN! I think that was the best point in this argument yet. ~Jen -- * Knowledge may be power, but ignorance is bliss. * * --Jennifer Spengler =P * * http://www.i-america.net/homepages/hally2000/ * * Both Sides Of the Mood** * ###### Message-ID: <3647094C.1F81@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <3643F27D.8B8377AD@earthlink.nXXXet> <364689C2.3001@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 15:26:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.71 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 10:26:22 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.news.gtei.net!news1.bellglobal.com!news21.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > > > might intice at least one person somewhere to show up and > > > demonstrate this ability. > > intice, huh? never heard of that word.. where did you get your P.H.D. > > again? 'e' and 'i' are pretty far from one another on my keyboard, what > > about yours?? > > > > all in jest.. :-D > > Ahh, but there is truth in jest! ;P I think the word youre looking for here is "notice" (inversed "n" with a typo "i-o" ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:08:17 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com - Discussions start here! Lines: 57 Message-ID: <727i69$dqa$1@supernews.com> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> <364fe360.11579729@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.58 X-Trace: 910642185 I0G4.QBCE5F3ACF30C usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail John. . . good point. the most recent TV coverage of Randi I saw dealt with everything except OOBEs. The closest he got was to claim near death experiences were not valid because the sensation could be reproduced by subjecting fighter pilots to extreme g forces that drained the blood from their brains. I had to laugh. If they had not allowed the pilots to come out of the g force that was doing this, would they not have died? Just because the experiment did not go that far is no proof of anything. -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net John Fitzsimons wrote in message <364fe360.11579729@news.melbpc.org.au>... >On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 18:05:21 -0800, "Richard" > wrote: > >>I think it is important to note that randi takes pride in exposing people >>who are conning the innocent public. > >< snip > > >It could also be suggested that Randi takes pride in belittling people >who do not think the same way that he does. > >As for your "community service" implication of his "motives" I would >suggest you ask : > >(1) How much time/energy/money does Randi put into trying to make >anyone with an interest/belief in the paranormal look like idiots ? > >(2) How much time/energy/money does Randi put into investigating >whether there is anything suggesting "validity" to paranormal >reports ? > >If the answer to (2) is greater than $0.00 I would be surprised. > >Regards, John. > > **************************************************** > ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. > / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 > \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm > v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ > > ###### Message-ID: <36477458.7665@geocities.com> From: Life-Saver Reply-To: life-saver@geocities.com Organization: none X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> <364fe360.11579729@news.melbpc.org.au> <727i69$dqa$1@supernews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 2 Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:03:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.172.247.133 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 18:03:07 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.tele2.nl!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news3.bellglobal.com!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail James Randi... who is that guy anyway? some highly respected skeptical eediot or what? ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: A Challenge for James Randi Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:52:27 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 18 Message-ID: <364ec325.9466576@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <3642C729.ED6479F1@axyspharm.com> <01be09cc$12bbd2b0$ca61a7cc@odysseus> <720c48$p0t$1@supernews.com> <364fe360.11579729@news.melbpc.org.au> <727i69$dqa$1@supernews.com> <36477458.7665@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b3-12.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Mon, 09 Nov 1998 23:03:07 GMT, Life-Saver wrote: >James Randi... who is that guy anyway? >some highly respected skeptical eediot or what? A magician. Respected mainly by people who enjoy ridiculing other people's ideas/beliefs IMO. Debunkers tend to think he is great. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/