Message-ID: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> From: kbird X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: OBEs and Languages Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:34:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.202.170.82 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:34:25 PDT Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.teleport.com!news.teleport.com!not-for-mail I posted this issue several months ago, but was hoping with all of our newbies there was some new insights to be shared. My daughter (12) has been experiencing lots of OBEs, sometimes two or three times a night. While sleeping, she has been speaking in another language. As soon as I can afford a recorder, I am going to record her talking and send it to my wonderful friend (hi, T ;-) ) who speaks many languages. In the mean time, have any of you noticed during OBEs you are speaking another language or understanding another language? Darbi still asks about it and is trying to understand all of the things going on in her life right now. She is very open minded, but looking for answers to questions that I can't answer for her. Any posts would be great. She (okay, me too!) wants a few answers and I just can't produce. Thanks! Kbird ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 17:53:36 -0700 Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 46 Message-ID: <6tv01c$ohj$2@supernews.com> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.54 X-Trace: 906167148 I0G4.QBCE5F36CF30C usenet76.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail Generally I "hear" what is said to me in English. The only times I have been aware of other languages being spoken were during times when it appeared I was reliving a part of a prior life of mine where the "I" at that time spoke a different language. During these experiences I know that the language I hear belongs to that past life, but I can not understand it. But at the same time I know exactly what the "I" there is feeling, so in a way the language does not matter. This probably does not help much. The only time I remember someone hearing me during a OOBE, I was speaking English. . . talking about the people who were there to help me. (I was sick at that time.) -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net kbird wrote in message <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com>... >I posted this issue several months ago, but was hoping with all of our >newbies there was some new insights to be shared. > >My daughter (12) has been experiencing lots of OBEs, sometimes two or >three times a night. While sleeping, she has been speaking in another >language. As soon as I can afford a recorder, I am going to record her >talking and send it to my wonderful friend (hi, T ;-) ) who speaks many >languages. In the mean time, have any of you noticed during OBEs you are >speaking another language or understanding another language? Darbi still >asks about it and is trying to understand all of the things going on in >her life right now. She is very open minded, but looking for answers to >questions that I can't answer for her. > >Any posts would be great. She (okay, me too!) wants a few answers and I >just can't produce. > >Thanks! >Kbird > ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 23:34:24 -0400 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 38 Message-ID: <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh38-58.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Sep 18 8:37:38 PM PDT 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news kbird wrote in message <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com>... >I posted this issue several months ago, but was hoping with all of our >newbies there was some new insights to be shared. > >My daughter (12) has been experiencing lots of OBEs, sometimes two or >three times a night. While sleeping, she has been speaking in another >language. As soon as I can afford a recorder, I am going to record her >talking and send it to my wonderful friend (hi, T ;-) ) who speaks many >languages. In the mean time, have any of you noticed during OBEs you are >speaking another language or understanding another language? Darbi still >asks about it and is trying to understand all of the things going on in >her life right now. She is very open minded, but looking for answers to >questions that I can't answer for her. > >Any posts would be great. She (okay, me too!) wants a few answers and I >just can't produce. > >Thanks! >Kbird I find this very interesting. I hope you post your results. But, um, you can afford a computer, but not a $10 recorder? Oh, never mind... One thing I'd be interested in is if you could check your family tree and find out which languages your ancestors spoke. I accept reincarnation, but I also believe in DNA memory. For instance - If I started speaking German or Norwegian in my sleep, then I would believe it came from DNA training. Bart ###### From: gallianoj@aol.com (GALLIANOJ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Sep 1998 21:10:03 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> Message-ID: <19980919171003.08821.00001798@ng-fb2.aol.com> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail kbird, I am very interested in what is happening to your daughter, as a child these occuraces happened to me but my family was in denial about it. I will send you a recorder to record your daughter tounges if you will send me copies of the tapes that i might try to decipher them. i have extensive experience with OB/ Rv and LD for some 20 years now. Your daught needs help and guidance with these forces and energies talking thru her, it should not be encouraged until you find out "Who" is talking as there ar many entities in the astral realms. Im sure your daughter has a guardian protecting her because of these special talents but please be ware, there is much misunderstood about the astral realms and we are only now developing the skills and talents needed to explore them. A child of 12? I was 11 and my energy to access other realms became dangerous to my well being and confused and confounded me for years. Send me you snail mail address and i will see to it that you get a recorder pronto. jean ###### From: rgross6162@aol.com (RGross6162) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Sep 1998 15:52:34 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> Message-ID: <19980920115234.00162.00002251@ng86.aol.com> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail When you are out of the body, your subconscious is in charge again, not your conscious. The subconscious knows all; hence maybe the foreign language is not so strange. I have been teaching about out of body experiences, because I've been doing it consciously all my life. I give workshops and lectures on this across the country and would be happy to send you some information. You can contact me at Rgross6162@aol.com, or writge to Search and Prove, Box 311, St.Paul Park, MN 55071. Hope to hear from you. Jerry Gross ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: Pyle S E A Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Sender: news@news.uwindsor.ca (Usenet) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 15:11:07 GMT X-Nntp-Posting-Host: server.uwindsor.ca Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Organization: University of Windsor, Ontario, Canada Lines: 172 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.221.240.3!beaker.tor.sfl.net!news!server.uwindsor.ca!pyle On Fri, 18 Sep 1998, Bart wrote: > Date: Fri, 18 SEP 1998 23:34:24 -0400 > From: Bart > Newgroups: alt.out-of-body > Subject: Kbird, languages etc..I ope this helps (long, though) > > > kbird wrote in message <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com>... > >I posted this issue several months ago, but was hoping with all of our > >newbies there was some new insights to be shared. > > > >My daughter (12) has been experiencing lots of OBEs, sometimes two or > >three times a night. While sleeping, she has been speaking in another > >language. As soon as I can afford a recorder, I am going to record her > >talking and send it to my wonderful friend (hi, T ;-) ) who speaks many > >languages. In the mean time, have any of you noticed during OBEs you are > >speaking another language or understanding another language? Darbi still > >asks about it and is trying to understand all of the things going on in > >her life right now. She is very open minded, but looking for answers to > >questions that I can't answer for her. > > > >Any posts would be great. She (okay, me too!) wants a few answers and I > >just can't produce. > > > >Thanks! > >Kbird HERE, KBIRD!! Hey, Kbird!!!I am a newbie, as you put it, to this news group. I hope my insights may offer you a few! It seems to me tat there are three major possibilities. I will list them and then expalin each one. I. Genetic Memory II. Past-Life Memory/Regression III. Universal Conciousness I. Genetic Memory is based on the belief that every cell in one's body has the ability to retain every memory. When someone is concieved they are given half of the father's and half of the mother's genes and thus, following this belief pattern, half of each of the parents' memory. Note, also, that each of the parents were given half of each of their parents' memory and so the tree extends. This sort of belief may, at first, sound crazy but if one looks at differences of cultural Identity it makes sense. I am, genetically speaking, French-Canadian and Irish-Canadian. My dad, though (When I say 'Dad', I refer to what many would call my step-father but he has been the only dad I have ever known and he has been around almost as long as me.), is Trinidadian. A Black man from a different place. He is genetically African-Carib and Indo/Chinese-African. Very different genetic make-ups. My siblings are all genetically related to him and my mother. We have all been raised in the same manner with the same values and beliefs. I have though, for a long time before even knowing my genetic background, had an affinity with the Irish. I listened to the music, looked at pictures. It somehow felt like home to me. My siblings have had no such desire but they have had the desire to, especially my brother, live in the tropics, live a life that is land based (such as a costal fisherman, in the case of my brother) and these, like my Irish desires are quite illogical and are not glorified at all by the media so I discount those as possible reasons. Your daughter may be reliving the history of her family tree through her dreams. Q. Is she concious? Does she remember? Ask her about her dreams and see if you can match them up with some family history. They say the sins of the father are the sins of the son. I do not believe in the traditional definition of 'sin' but the message is the same. The memory carries as will guilt and fear and dreams and struggles......so will languages. II. Past Life Memory/Regression Like Genetic Memory, but unique to her and her many lives and those experiences, she may be remembering her own life-tree in her sleep. Your acceptance of this as a possibility, of course, depend upon whether or not you believe in Reincarnation. I do. But that is just me. I was going through a particular stuggle with my parent's when I was living with them regarding our differences in religious and spiritual beliefs. I had a dream in which I re-lived several lifetimes really quickly. I was both male, female I had several different stations in life, I was of many different cultures and languages etc.. Several of my previous lifetimes have had similar stuggle against religion, or beliefs of the day, or politics or whatever and it was always my place to fight tooth and claw against my oppression. Each time I didthis, though, I failed. I usually died still in the struggle. Then I saw a glimpse of this life and I saw that If I did not fight aggresively, but passively allowed others to do as they would while I quietly did my own thing then the situation could be resolved. I did. I did not argue with my parents or criticize them and slowly they stopped criticizing me. Now they understand that I do not believe the same things that they do but we leave it be. Your daughter may be living out past-Lives as I have. Again question her about her experiences and be gentle about it. Never criticize or else she may feel judged and hide from you her experiences. III. Universal Conciousness. We are all connected. For us to say otherwise is a product of the ego that was, in our earlier development and evolution, necessary, but is no longer needed. To say we are not all connected and from the same source is like a sun-beam saying it is seperate from the sun. Psychics and clarivoyants etc. use this connectedness to gain info. on a given subject. They think with the universal-mind. First we have consious, then sub-consious, then the 'super-concious' (universal mind) and be conciously tapping into this we are able to do anything. Speak other languages, draw maps of places we have never seen, describe, in detail, people we have never met. All memory is stored here. It is called by some "The Akashic Records". I have used the Akashic records to explore some of my past lives in greater detail, to learn about why personal problems exist between me and some others, etc. It could be that in sleep, your daughter is exploring these venues. Questioning her may bring to light more truths. At any rate, who knows? I have offered that which I can. Drawn from books I read, discussions I have had, and experiences I have lived. I hope all of this typing has not been in vain. Best of luck to ya' Kbird! Shawn Pyle Pyle@uwindsor.ca > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*LOVE*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ /////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ /////////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\/////////////////////////////////////// ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ May your day be filled with the blessings and joys of all the ages. May you conquer your every fear in this day by being filled with the love that is Eternal. May you smile more and bring more smiles to those you meet and greet on this day. May happiness permeate your being and may you glow in your own glorious radiance that is God. Remember that we are all connected together and that what you think is what shall be and in so doing may you think more and more positive thoughts with each and every passing day. As it harmeth none, blessed be. Gratitude, happiness, strength and love. May courage of heart, clarity of mind and peace of spirit be with you now and always, my friend. - Shawn Pyle ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ /////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ /////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*LOVE*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:03:31 -0400 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 58 Message-ID: <6u7bad$gc6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-04.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Sep 22 12:07:25 AM CDT 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Pyle S E A wrote in message ... >I hope all of this typing has not been in vain. > Me too. You put out a lot of information. I read it. I agree with it. Now what? Sometimes the stuff one puts up on the net gets absorbed by folks who really have no comment. They learn from it - and that's it. Nothing else to say... Thanks for taking the time to make your post on this topic. Reincarnation has been a subject that I've had very little interest in. I mean... I'm alive now - why bother with the past. I understand the need to learn from the past, but the curiosity with reincarnation and past lives basically indicates an 'attachment' to a past life. I would like to live in the present because the pain of the past drags me down. If I have a problem that originated in a past life, then the problem is still in the present. I should deal with it in the present - not the past. Death is a gracious seperation from our past deeds and attachments to the bitterness of what deeds were done to us by others. If we continue to look at past lives, then we remain attached to them - but if we look forward, away from these experiences of pain, we see the light of freedom I've been stuck in a seemingly never-ending circle of blame between myself and my ex-wife. I can see that there is the possibility that this pattern may have been going on for a couple of lifetimes. I know now, that if I continue to seek a personal resolution to the problems that we have between us, the situation will continue on into another life - and probably into another beyond that. This is the lesson I've begun to learn from my belief in reincarnation - Life is "here/now". Not "What was" or "What could have been", but "What is". I have no use for a focus on reincarnation - but that doesn't mean I don't believe in it. A final note on the subject of reincarnation... It is mentioned in Revelations that all of the "dead" will come to life - I accept this as all of those who are living will remember their past lives and all will recognize each other as living before. Death will have never actually existed. No decayed bodies will rise from the graves - but memories will prevail in the beings that use bodies to walk in the physical existance. You and I have all been in graves before. No way will our previous bodies jump out of the the ground - but we will understand that we never died in the first place and the history of our experiences together will be known to all. Does this make sense to anyone? Bart ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: 22 Sep 1998 21:45:42 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> <6u7bad$gc6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "Bart" writes: > > A final note on the subject of reincarnation... It is mentioned in > Revelations that all of the "dead" will come to life - I accept this as all > of those who are living will remember their past lives and all will > recognize each other as living before. Death will have never actually > existed. No decayed bodies will rise from the graves - but memories will > prevail in the beings that use bodies to walk in the physical existance. > You and I have all been in graves before. No way will our previous bodies > jump out of the the ground - but we will understand that we never died in > the first place and the history of our experiences together will be known to > all. > > Does this make sense to anyone? Yes. Absolutely clear. In fact this interpretation makes a lot more sense than the literal one. After all, how can decomposed bodies reappear? What with "recycled" atoms that were in multiple bodies? But rediscovering that all lives are still running that goes. Yet annother bible text that looks like crap until you find the right interpretation. That is certainly an non-user-friendly book :-). -- home: neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Microsoft is Software Communism, Fight for GNU Freedom! ####### Message-ID: <360940F5.9E933743@teleport.com> From: kbird X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 18:39:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.202.165.156 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:39:22 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp.teleport.com!news.teleport.com!not-for-mail No, Bart, can't afford a computer. My parents gave me their old one for home and my work takes care of this one, but thanks for asking :-) On the subject, I too believe in retention of previous life memories. Now that I want to see what is going on, my daughter has been so exhausted from school and sports, her OBEs have ceased for the time being (figures). When she starts back up, I will keep you posted. kbird Bart wrote: > I find this very interesting. I hope you post your results. > > But, um, you can afford a computer, but not a $10 recorder? Oh, never > mind... > > One thing I'd be interested in is if you could check your family tree and > find out which languages your ancestors spoke. I accept reincarnation, but > I also believe in DNA memory. > > For instance - If I started speaking German or Norwegian in my sleep, then I > would believe it came from DNA training. > > Bart ###### Message-ID: <3609472B.9E3485D4@teleport.com> From: kbird X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 19:05:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.202.165.156 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:05:50 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp.teleport.com!news.teleport.com!not-for-mail Shawn, Thank you so much for the insights. Don't worry, I never pass judgement on my children's beliefs! My daughter has been so worn out from school and sports that the OBEs have ceased for now. She is greatful. She isn't afraid when they happen, she was just very tired! I have printed out your response and will share it with Darbi tonight. We talk about the OBE experience quite a bit since I have them regularly and she will like reading your inputs. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again! Kbird! ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:45:41 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 94 Message-ID: <36107b58.5407674@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> <6u7bad$gc6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-20.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:03:31 -0400, "Bart" wrote: < snip > >Reincarnation has been a subject that I've had very little interest in. I >mean... I'm alive now - why bother with the past. To better know what "lessons" we are meant to be learning in our current life. > I understand the need to >learn from the past, but the curiosity with reincarnation and past lives >basically indicates an 'attachment' to a past life. You *today* are a result of your past life experiences. In a sense everyone is attached to their past lives. Most phobias for example have past life origins. > I would like to live in >the present because the pain of the past drags me down. If I have a problem >that originated in a past life, then the problem is still in the present. I >should deal with it in the present - not the past. Correct, but remembering how/why you got a problem, and/or how you dealt with it in the past, helps one now. Sometimes people make the same mistake life after life after.... >Death is a gracious >seperation from our past deeds and attachments to the bitterness of what >deeds were done to us by others. If we continue to look at past lives, then >we remain attached to them - but if we look forward, away from these >experiences of pain, we see the light of freedom Suppressing past experiences generally prevents them being "cleared" currently. For example a person with a current life phobia about heights can often totally clear such a phobia by remembering a possible past life death from a great height. >I've been stuck in a seemingly never-ending circle of blame between myself >and my ex-wife. I can see that there is the possibility that this pattern >may have been going on for a couple of lifetimes. I know now, that if I >continue to seek a personal resolution to the problems that we have between >us, the situation will continue on into another life - and probably into >another beyond that. Many situations spread over a number of lives. When one looks at one's past life mistakes then one is less likely to repeat them in the present, or future. >This is the lesson I've begun to learn from my belief in reincarnation - >Life is "here/now". Not "What was" or "What could have been", but "What >is". What "is" is the result of what "was". Knowing what "was" makes changing what "is" easier. >I have no use for a focus on reincarnation - but that doesn't mean I don't >believe in it. Many people aren't interested in learning from their past life experiences. This is the main reason so many people repeat their mistakes life after life. Many wars for example are the same people fighting the same opponents. The only things changing are the calendar and the uniforms. >A final note on the subject of reincarnation... It is mentioned in >Revelations that all of the "dead" will come to life - I accept this as all >of those who are living will remember their past lives and all will >recognize each other as living before. More like : Those who are "spiritually" dead will come to life. >Death will have never actually >existed. No decayed bodies will rise from the graves - but memories will >prevail in the beings that use bodies to walk in the physical existance. >You and I have all been in graves before. No way will our previous bodies >jump out of the the ground - but we will understand that we never died in >the first place and the history of our experiences together will be known to >all. Anyone who has proper awareness of past lives knows that they outlast their physical containers. One doesn't need Revelation to tell us that. :-) Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 00:45:42 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 52 Message-ID: <36118038.6656099@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-20.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:34:25 GMT, kbird wrote: >I posted this issue several months ago, but was hoping with all of our >newbies there was some new insights to be shared. >My daughter (12) has been experiencing lots of OBEs, sometimes two or >three times a night. While sleeping, she has been speaking in another >language. As soon as I can afford a recorder, I am going to record her >talking and send it to my wonderful friend (hi, T ;-) ) who speaks many >languages. In the mean time, have any of you noticed during OBEs you are >speaking another language or understanding another language? Darbi still >asks about it and is trying to understand all of the things going on in >her life right now. She is very open minded, but looking for answers to >questions that I can't answer for her. As has been pointed out by others there are a number of possibilities. Some of them are ; (1) Speaking a past life language during reliving a past life recall. (2) Speaking a past life language during a present time discussion with someone. Someone who may be alive and OOB, or discarnate. (3) Being a channel for a spirit guide of the light. (4) As 3 but for the opposition. (5) Being a channel for someone of another language who is earthbound. There are a number of ways to work out which option is most likely. One would need to see whether she remembers anything during the time that you hear her speaking. If so then what ? If she doesn't ask for psychic protection by the forces of light before sleep then she should do. This should increase her ability to get positive guidance/ direction as well as make (4) harder to happen. Next time you are around when she is speaking you should ask your own guides of the light to help you to flood her with love and light on non-physical levels. Depending on what happens next you would have an idea of which option is looking more likely. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: ".Nisaba Merrieweather" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: 25 Sep 1998 12:27:59 GMT Organization: Terry Anthony Computers Lines: 72 Message-ID: <01bde840$a4391fc0$LocalHost@default> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> <6u7bad$gc6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <36107b58.5407674@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.102.210.3 X-Trace: news.mel.aone.net.au 906726479 29315 203.102.210.3 (25 Sep 1998 12:27:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Sep 1998 12:27:59 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Cache-Post-Path: slave.tac.com.au!unknown@diale87.gos.tac.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.2.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.concentric.net!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!not-for-mail Hello, John. John Fitzsimons wrote in article <36107b58.5407674@news.melbpc.org.au>... > >Reincarnation has been a subject that I've had very little interest in. I > >mean... I'm alive now - why bother with the past. > > To better know what "lessons" we are meant to be learning in our > current life. If we have properly dealt with a lesson, issue or relationship in a past life, then it should not crop up again in a present life. Ie, it should be difficult to recall. For that reason, people who are deeply in love (or lust) and claim that ion order to have such a great relationship with someone they must have been together before in many lives, worry me. Why would they repeat such a perfect past life? Is it because it wasn't perfect at all? Is it because they still have a lot to learn? Are they simply making the same mistakes over and over? Or is it because of having made a foolish promise (like one in a handfasting I witnessed once), vowing in front of their gods to stay together "for all time"? Dangerous, that. What if one partner evolves and the other doesn't, or their evolution takes them on a different course? They will be manacled through the centuries, neither of them quite able to reach their individual potential. > You *today* are a result of your past life experiences. In a sense > everyone is attached to their past lives. Most phobias for example > have past life origins. So deal with it now, instead of using your past-life problems as a crutch to be able to say "well, it's due to a past life where I was hung, so I can't do anything about it". > >that originated in a past life, then the problem is still in the present. I > >should deal with it in the present - not the past. > > Correct, but remembering how/why you got a problem, and/or how you > dealt with it in the past, helps one now. Sometimes people make the > same mistake life after life after.... People make the assumption that knowing how the problem starts helps to deal with it. It doesn't. Theraputically, knowing your starting-point is only that: a starting-point. Then much hard work has to be undertaken. Knowing that a compound fracture of the femur occurred as a result of a fall whilst rock-climbing rather than being inflicted with a cricket bat, only tells you what work is appropriate: that the bone should be set but legal proceedings need not be taking place. It doesn't actually deal with the bone injury. Ditto phychological work on psychological injury. > >...if we continue to look at past lives, then > >we remain attached to them - but if we look forward, away from these > >experiences of pain, we see the light of freedom > > Suppressing past experiences generally prevents them being "cleared" > currently. For example a person with a current life phobia about > heights can often totally clear such a phobia by remembering a > possible past life death from a great height. Or give themselves an excuse to avoid heights forever by saying to their family and friends "it's past-life and there's nothing I can do about it), which happens in about 71% of all recorded theraputic past-life recalls. Projecting into the future and exploring new paths opens potentials, and is not necessarily "suppressing the past". -- .Nisaba Merrieweather nisaba@tac.com.au ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 04:16:31 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 154 Message-ID: <3616fb51.20189331@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> <6u7bad$gc6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <36107b58.5407674@news.melbpc.org.au> <01bde840$a4391fc0$LocalHost@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-6.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail On 25 Sep 1998 12:27:59 GMT, ".Nisaba Merrieweather" wrote: Hello, Nisaba, >John Fitzsimons wrote in article ><36107b58.5407674@news.melbpc.org.au>... >> >Reincarnation has been a subject that I've had very little interest in. >> >mean... I'm alive now - why bother with the past. >> To better know what "lessons" we are meant to be learning in our >> current life. >If we have properly dealt with a lesson, issue or relationship in a past >life, then it should not crop up again in a present life. Yep. > Ie, it should be difficult to recall. Nope. One can remember lives where we HAVE done things well AS WELL AS lives where we haven't done things well. >For that reason, people who are deeply in love (or >lust) and claim that ion order to have such a great relationship with >someone they must have been together before in many lives, worry me. Why >would they repeat such a perfect past life? If you have a good experience with someone in THIS life then do you ever seek to repeat it ? > Is it because it wasn't perfect at all? Sometimes. >Is it because they still have a lot to learn? Sometimes. >Are they simply making the same mistakes over and over? Sometimes. >Or is it because of having made a >foolish promise (like one in a handfasting I witnessed once), vowing in >front of their gods to stay together "for all time"? Sometimes. Don't know why you use the word "or". > Dangerous, that. What >if one partner evolves and the other doesn't, or their evolution takes them >on a different course? If people take different courses and/or evolve at different rates then they are silly to stay together. Otherwise the slow person will need to go faster than they prefer OR the faster person will need to go slower. Both are poor choices. >They will be manacled through the centuries, neither >of them quite able to reach their individual potential. Agreed. When people appreciate that everyone should choose their own future and decide for themselves how fast/slow they go then there may be less of this unhealthy/unrealistic "bonding". > >> You *today* are a result of your past life experiences. In a sense >> everyone is attached to their past lives. Most phobias for example >> have past life origins. >So deal with it now, instead of using your past-life problems as a crutch >to be able to say "well, it's due to a past life where I was hung, so I >can't do anything about it". What rubbish, why would people be dopey enough to say that ? The point of going to the cause of a past life problem is to reduce, or totally clear, that problem in the here and now. Let's see. Someone has a fear of flying. There are two choices. Your way is to ignore why they have this fear i.e. the past life cause (assuming it is past life related), or to go to the reason for the phobia. Have you bothered to do any "past life" therapy or research it ? It seems not. Otherwise you would know that going to the cause of the phobia is the fastest/easiest way to reduce/clear it. >> >that originated in a past life, then the problem is still in the >>>present. I should deal with it in the present - not the past. >> Correct, but remembering how/why you got a problem, and/or how you >> dealt with it in the past, helps one now. Sometimes people make the >> same mistake life after life after.... >People make the assumption that knowing how the problem starts helps to >deal with it. It doesn't. Theraputically, knowing your starting-point is >only that: a starting-point. Then much hard work has to be undertaken. Just how much "past life therapy" experience do you have ? It sounds like none to me. I have been involved in this work for decades and have not found that "much hard work has to be undertaken". If people find this so "hard" then they probably don't know what they are doing. >Knowing that a compound fracture of the femur occurred as a result of a >fall whilst rock-climbing rather than being inflicted with a cricket bat, >only tells you what work is appropriate: that the bone should be set but >legal proceedings need not be taking place. It doesn't actually deal with >the bone injury. Ditto phychological work on psychological injury. Not the case with past life recall. Depending on the phobia past life recall nearly always results in an immediate improvement. The only exception is where a large number of past life experiences are contributing to a current problem. >> >...if we continue to look at past lives, then >> >we remain attached to them - but if we look forward, away from these >> >experiences of pain, we see the light of freedom >> Suppressing past experiences generally prevents them being "cleared" >> currently. For example a person with a current life phobia about >> heights can often totally clear such a phobia by remembering a >> possible past life death from a great height. >Or give themselves an excuse to avoid heights forever by saying to their >family and friends "it's past-life and there's nothing I can do about it), This would be a particularly stupid thing to say IMO. Do you really know people with such a silly point of view ? >which happens in about 71% of all recorded theraputic past-life recalls. From my experience it would be more like .7% Where did you get that figure from ? >Projecting into the future and exploring new paths opens potentials, and is >not necessarily "suppressing the past". Ignoring the causes of problems simply because they might be in a past life/lives is a pretty valid hint that "suppression" of some sort is being practised. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: ".Nisaba Merrieweather" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBEs and Languages Date: 2 Oct 1998 12:02:15 GMT Organization: Terry Anthony Computers Lines: 190 Message-ID: <01bdedda$db4f4260$LocalHost@default> References: <3602D28C.F372E094@teleport.com> <6tv8u2$85@sjx-ixn1.ix.netcom.com> <6u7bad$gc6@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <36107b58.5407674@news.melbpc.org.au> <01bde840$a4391fc0$LocalHost@default> <3616fb51.20189331@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.102.210.3 X-Trace: news.mel.aone.net.au 907329735 14689 203.102.210.3 (2 Oct 1998 12:02:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Oct 1998 12:02:15 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Cache-Post-Path: slave.tac.com.au!unknown@diale67.gos.tac.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.2.1 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!not-for-mail Hi there. John Fitzsimons wrote in article <3616fb51.20189331@news.melbpc.org.au>... > >If we have properly dealt with a lesson, issue or relationship in a past > >life, then it should not crop up again in a present life. > > Yep. > > > Ie, it should be difficult to recall. > > Nope. One can remember lives where we HAVE done things well AS WELL AS > lives where we haven't done things well. One *can*, yes. but often one simply doesn't. Just as remembering a good day at work when you might have had dozens or hundreds of them, doesn't usually stand out when remembering a bad day at work. Human nature, I suppose, we tend to put more emphasis on the negatives. I'm noticing that here, not advocating it. > >For that reason, people who are deeply in love (or > >lust) and claim that ion order to have such a great relationship with > >someone they must have been together before in many lives, worry me. Why > >would they repeat such a perfect past life? > > If you have a good experience with someone in THIS life then do you > ever seek to repeat it ? Not once it's over, no. I tend to look to the future. One can cry an awful lot of bitter tears trying to recapture feelings about a formerly happy love when the partner has moved on. Some twears are healing, but there comes a time to face the present. > > Is it because it wasn't perfect at all? > > Sometimes. > > >Is it because they still have a lot to learn? > > Sometimes. > > >Are they simply making the same mistakes over and over? > > Sometimes. > > >Or is it because of having made a > >foolish promise (like one in a handfasting I witnessed once), vowing in > >front of their gods to stay together "for all time"? > > Sometimes. > > Don't know why you use the word "or". Grammatical necessity. It is customary when you offer a list of alternatives. > > Dangerous, that. What > >if one partner evolves and the other doesn't, or their evolution takes them > >on a different course? > > If people take different courses and/or evolve at different rates then > they are silly to stay together. Otherwise the slow person will need > to go faster than they prefer OR the faster person will need to go > slower. Both are poor choices. That's exactly my point. > >They will be manacled through the centuries, neither > >of them quite able to reach their individual potential. > > Agreed. When people appreciate that everyone should choose their own > future and decide for themselves how fast/slow they go then there may > be less of this unhealthy/unrealistic "bonding". Yes, but what amazes me is how many supposedly "aware" people claim that this is a healthy thing, and are proud of it! > >So deal with it now, instead of using your past-life problems as a crutch > >to be able to say "well, it's due to a past life where I was hung, so I > >can't do anything about it". > > What rubbish, why would people be dopey enough to say that ? Not many people are particularly intelligent, if that is a sign of dopiness. It happens in clinical practice with nearly all patients - very few are self-aware enough to be more positive. I suppose those that are, don't need to seek professional help as often. > The point > of going to the cause of a past life problem is to reduce, or totally > clear, that problem in the here and now. Yes, that's why it frustrates me when I see individuals who use it as an excuse. And most of them seem to feel so smug when tey find their little pet excuse! Oh, it's so frustrating! > Let's see. Someone has a fear of flying. There are two choices. Your > way is to ignore why they have this fear i.e. the past life cause > (assuming it is past life related), or to go to the reason for the > phobia. Have you bothered to do any "past life" therapy or research > it ? E-mail with personal details on way. > It seems not. Otherwise you would know that going to the cause of > the phobia is the fastest/easiest way to reduce/clear it. If that is followed up with a little work on resolving the past situation, yes. > >People make the assumption that knowing how the problem starts helps to > >deal with it. It doesn't. Theraputically, knowing your starting-point is > >only that: a starting-point. Then much hard work has to be undertaken. > > Just how much "past life therapy" experience do you have ? It sounds > like none to me. See E-mail. > I have been involved in this work for decades and > have not found that "much hard work has to be undertaken". What sort of follow-up programme do you have after resolution? And what do you mean by "not much"? I wasn't implying that one had to slave through three sessions per week for a decade or anything, just that something constructive has to be done to resolve the accessed memories and integrate them. > If people > find this so "hard" then they probably don't know what they are doing. The majority of clients do. But they all agree after resolution that it's worth it. > >> >...if we continue to look at past lives, then > >> >we remain attached to them - but if we look forward, away from these > >> >experiences of pain, we see the light of freedom > > >> Suppressing past experiences generally prevents them being "cleared" > >> currently. I'm in complete agreement with you. But I fail to see how that can be considered an answer to the comment of mine that you quoted - they are two different issues. > >Or give themselves an excuse to avoid heights forever by saying to their > >family and friends "it's past-life and there's nothing I can do about it), > > This would be a particularly stupid thing to say IMO. Do you really > know people with such a silly point of view ? No therapists, no. Plenty of patients. They have to be educated into a healthier attitude. > >which happens in about 71% of all recorded theraputic past-life recalls. > > From my experience it would be more like .7% Where did you get that > figure from ? In E-mail. I'm not going to supply you with confidential patient details, though. > >Projecting into the future and exploring new paths opens potentials, and is > >not necessarily "suppressing the past". > > Ignoring the causes of problems simply because they might be in a past > life/lives is a pretty valid hint that "suppression" of some sort is > being practised. Yes, agreed. But if they are not the only or primary cause but more a contributing factor, they can be easily dealt with and attention must be given to other contributing factors commensurate with their input into the problem. Dwelling on something that was a part of a problem once, or maybe even all of a problem once but is no more, is self-defeating and brings back the problem from resolution into drama again. -- .Nisaba Merrieweather nisaba@tac.com.au