From: "Mr X" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Life After Death Date: 10 Sep 1998 17:58:14 GMT Organization: N/A Lines: 9 Message-ID: <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.8.78.109 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1162 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!demeter.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp1.clara.net!not-for-mail Hi, I know this is a little off-topic and a little morbid but have any of you had a Near Death Experience and, if so, was it different than a OBE. Also on the same line how many of you believe that OBE's are evidence that there is a possibility of Life After Death. I would be very grateful for any opinion. Regards, Lee. ###### Message-ID: <35F884A5.2DF4D20@pop.slkc.uswest.net> Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 19:02:14 -0700 From: Beth Reply-To: oberoberts@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Life After Death References: <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.224.201.73 X-Trace: 10 Sep 1998 20:01:51 +0500, 207.224.201.73 Lines: 25 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!207.224.201.73 > have any of you had a Near Death Experience and, if so, was it different than > a OBE. Also > on the same line how many of you believe that OBE's are evidence that there > is a possibility of Life After Death. > I would be very grateful for any opinion. Ok, ok . . . I swore I would write this up and keep a copy of it so that when people asked I would not have to retype it. Yes, I have had an NDE. Last December. I feel it is different than an OOBE only in that I was dead instead of alive while out of my body. Also, getting back into my body during the NDE was a very painful experience. I don't have this type of painful experience while OOBE'ing. A couple of times I did have similar feelings while returning to my body from OOBE, but it wasn't painful, more of an ache like pressure. My NDE, was the personal experience that set me on the enlightenment phase of my life. I "know" that I exist even if my body quits existing. From there I have learned many great and fascinating things about life, death and other planes of existence. This is my experience, I cannot speak for others or based on science. However, there are many great books that discuss this experience, you can pick them up from most any library or book store. Beth ###### From: J L Williams Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Life After Death Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 00:13:25 +0100 Message-ID: <1998091100132575767@zetnet.co.uk> References: <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Lines: 49 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!btnet-peer!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail The message <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> from "Mr X" contains these words: > Hi, Hello Lee > I know this is a little off-topic and a little morbid but have any of you > had a Near Death Experience and, if so, was it different than a OBE. Well I have had 3 NDEs at different times in my life and many years apart. My first was when I was 12 yo and I had pneumonia, it was out of the blue, no vibrations or nothing. There I was floating around the ceiling wondering what mother was doing shouting to me down below. The same happened when I had a very bad bout of flue or something some ten or twelve years later. Again it was in real time and at an appropriate time of the day. I had two of these at this time. > on the same line how many of you believe that OBE's are evidence that there > is a possibility of Life After Death. With hind sight I would say that this has proved to me that there is an existance of the concious after bad health, but I did not die. In each case I was fully aware of what was happening around me and beyond my immediate physical surroundings in that position. This would be similar to anyone who had the freedom to move about in those circumstances. I have had an oobe just recently and was so excited that I just went flying when I could have been more analytical and studied the situation. I have always said that if you have an out of body experience you will know exactly what it is as it is so different to a ld and a dream. BUT in my experience I could not tell the difference between an OOB and an NDE. In the last (OOB) I did have the vibrations but that was all-------oh, it was not so real-time as were the NDEs. > I would be very grateful for any opinion. Your welcome Jim > Regards, > Lee. ###### From: J L Williams Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Life After Death Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 11:02:55 +0100 Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1998091111025575767@zetnet.co.uk> References: <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> <35F884A5.2DF4D20@pop.slkc.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet-feed1!btnet!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail The message <35F884A5.2DF4D20@pop.slkc.uswest.net> from Beth contains these words: <> Also, getting back into my body during the NDE > was a very painful experience. I don't have this type of painful experience > while OOBE'ing. I ommitted to tell you this in my reply. I also hurt when I went back into my body in the ndes. It was one h**l of a zzzzzzzzzzzonk and like a great big thump in the chest. In the oobe I just gently wafted back and awoke fully refreshed and revitalised-feeling great Jim > Beth ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Life After Death Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:35:13 -0400 Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 62 Message-ID: <6tfb6r$atb@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> References: <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh40-14.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Sep 12 9:38:19 PM CDT 1998 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!ix.netcom.com!news Mr X wrote in message <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default>... >Hi, >I know this is a little off-topic and a little morbid but have any of you >had a Near Death Experience and, if so, was it different than a OBE. Also >on the same line how many of you believe that OBE's are evidence that there >is a possibility of Life After Death. >I would be very grateful for any opinion. > > Regards, > Lee. I have not had an NDE, but I have had experiences with many different levels of consciousness. I would say that at least one of them far surpassed the experience that I would call a basic OBE and matches almost word for word with some descriptions of NDE. I would say it was quite different than the descriptions of 99% of the OBEs you will find on this NG. With all the times that I've been able to change my state of consciousness, I must admit, I believe they are all related - even that one particular experience. Why? Because it is still an experience of consciousness - just like the physical - which, to me, is also a state of consciousness. To me, the importance of all of this is to practice travelling within so that when physical death occurs, it is no surprise in the experience. There are other important things, of course... those being the ability to help others on their journey and avoiding the illusions that are constantly arising before us. These illusions are what make the OBE more dream-like than what a NDE might produce. You see, with an NDE, very little of the body and brain are functioning. While, in an OBE, the body and brain are functioning normally - hence - many more illusions come before the traveller than would appear for a person having a NDE. Most of us in this NG are dealing with a lot of illusion. But we *ARE* at least trying to get beyond this. Just because most of our descriptions (and possibly even your own experiences with OBE) may seem identical with a Lucid Dream, it does not mean that is all there is to OBE or life in general. It only means that we are travelling in an area which is saturated with personal projection. I'm convinced, by a few of my own experiences, that there is much more to this than what I experience with an average "OBE". I'll try to describe it one other way... A person attempting OBE must travel through a certain area of consciousness that is largely hallucinatory in order to keep themelves from joining their body in sleep and unconscious dreaming. With NDE, the person does not have to go through that state. Their body has been instantly shut down. Hallucinations still happen - but the intensity of the situation at hand pops them beyond the dream-like segment of the journey that most induced OBEs are subject to. Clear as mud? ;-) Bart Bart ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Life After Death Date: 14 Sep 1998 00:05:56 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <01bddce1$97963d80$0100007f@default> <6tfb6r$atb@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "Bart" writes: > > functioning. While, in an OBE, the body and brain are functioning > normally - hence - many more illusions come before the traveller than would > appear for a person having a NDE. Most of us in this NG are dealing with a > > I'll try to describe it one other way... A person attempting OBE must > travel through a certain area of consciousness that is largely hallucinatory > in order to keep themelves from joining their body in sleep and unconscious > dreaming. With NDE, the person does not have to go through that state. > Their body has been instantly shut down. Hallucinations still happen - but > the intensity of the situation at hand pops them beyond the dream-like > segment of the journey that most induced OBEs are subject to. > > Clear as mud? ;-) No mud. Clear as light! The dreaming brain "infecting" the OBE. I like that explanation a lot more than the etherical/astral planes explanation. Thanks for it. Actually that reverses the situation. Further away from normal conciousness is clearer "real world" perception, not nearer. Any more such revelations? -- home: neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Microsoft is Software Communism, Fight for GNU Freedom!