From: "Luke Elson" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Teleportation Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 19:52:39 +0100 Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 14 Message-ID: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: userl368.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to another location, either accidentally or at will. -- Thanks Luke 'Space' Elson luke.elson@dial.pipex.com ICQ - 10287333 In for a penny, in for a pound. ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 17 Aug 1998 20:11:50 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6ra2q6$t10@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh41-01.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Aug 17 1:11:50 PM PDT 1998 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news In <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> "Luke Elson" writes: > >Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to >another location, either accidentally or at will. >-- > >Thanks > >Luke 'Space' Elson >luke.elson@dial.pipex.com ICQ - 10287333 >In for a penny, in for a pound. Anything is possible with THE FORCE, Luke ;-) I've heard only one story of teleportation, and it wasn't from a very reliable source. But bilocation (being physically seen in two places at the same time) has been reported by a number of mystics. Bart ###### From: "Luke Elson" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 22:03:47 +0100 Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 31 Message-ID: <6ra5u8$otb$1@plug.news.pipex.net> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6ra2q6$t10@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usero954.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Hey BART, do you walk around with a tee shirt saying 'underachiever and proud of it'? :) // Luke 'SkyWalker' Elson Bart Scott wrote in message 6ra2q6$t10@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com... >In <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> "Luke Elson" > writes: >> >>Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to >>another location, either accidentally or at will. > >>-- >> >>Thanks >> >>Luke 'Space' Elson >>luke.elson@dial.pipex.com ICQ - 10287333 >>In for a penny, in for a pound. > >Anything is possible with THE FORCE, Luke ;-) > >I've heard only one story of teleportation, and it wasn't from a very >reliable source. But bilocation (being physically seen in two places >at the same time) has been reported by a number of mystics. > >Bart > ###### From: gallianoj@aol.com (GALLIANOJ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Lines: 9 Message-ID: <1998081801062000.VAA15298@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 18 Aug 1998 01:06:20 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to another >location, either accidentally or at will. Havent you heard of 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? (check it out) Also, I hear that The Ascendant Masters' can do such things... as for us? We are doing what we can to send our counsciousness to various places and gather information, even compare it. But i speak mainly for myself, im sure there are some who would say they can. shhh...S.H. may still be lurking about. jean ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 01:20:27 +0200 Lines: 22 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p20.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p20.telia.com Message-ID: <35d8ba08.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p20.telia.com Luke Elson wrote in message <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net>... >Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to another >location, either accidentally or at will. > Yes. This was something I found in the OBE FAQ I posted here recently. It appears that you can use OBE for physical space/time travel. But this is mighty difficult if you are planing to only use your own personal orgone energy source.... It is so easy with a time machine that anyone can do it.... It is faster than a car, cheaper, and probably safer too. And you get a side effect, you can also travel in time.... Cheers, Lars ###### From: stonelvr@aol.com (StoneLvr) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1998081801242200.VAA08405@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 18 Aug 1998 01:24:22 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <1998081801062000.VAA15298@ladder03.news.aol.com> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Theres a cool novel out Called California Angel cept I can't mind the authors name!!! Any way she has the ability to project and also bilocate really cool story read it in 3 days and lent the book out to never see it again!! Her mission is to help children in the story. Irene ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6ra2q6$t10@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 01:25:59 +0200 Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p20.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p20.telia.com Message-ID: <35d8bb54.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!pln-e!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p20.telia.com Bart Scott wrote in message <6ra2q6$t10@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>... > >I've heard only one story of teleportation, and it wasn't from a very >reliable source. But bilocation (being physically seen in two places >at the same time) has been reported by a number of mystics. > >Bart > Do you mind sharing that story? And the Bilocation too? Both is mentioned in the FAQ, but no stories is mentioned.... Cheers, Lars ###### From: gallianoj@aol.com (GALLIANOJ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: RE: Teleportation Lines: 9 Message-ID: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 18 Aug 1998 01:52:00 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Has anyone ever heard about 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? Also, i have heard that the Ascendant Masters can do this...if you believe in them i dont know. i think we are doing our best to move our consciousness about from place to place, having astral gatherings , self experiments etc... I dont think anyone on this ng would say they could teleport themselves physically...but i do speak for myself, really... shhhh....S.H. may still be lurking about...he can do everything! jean ###### From: Nino Uziel - IT - Design Center Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 09:19:54 +0200 Organization: LSI Logic Corporation Lines: 8 Message-ID: <35D92B1A.DA3550CE@lsil.com> References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 155.62.57.190 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.lsil.com!not-for-mail GALLIANOJ wrote: > > Has anyone ever heard about 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? > Also, i have heard that the Ascendant Masters can do this...if you believe in What are Ascendant Masters ? N. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <1998081801062000.VAA15298@ladder03.news.aol.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 10:44:49 +0200 Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p6.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p6.telia.com Message-ID: <35d93e4f.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p6.telia.com GALLIANOJ wrote in message >>Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to another >>location, either accidentally or at will. > >Haven't you heard of 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? (check it out) Also, I >hear that The Ascendant Masters' can do such things... as for us? We are >doing what we can to send our consciousness to various places and gather >information, even compare it. But I speak mainly for myself, im sure there >are some who would say they can. shhh...S.H. may still be lurking about. >Jean There is also a more recent experiment called "The Montauk Project"... You should check out that one too.... And yes, those that lived in Atlantis could do such things... But they had powerful crystals to help them out.... hehe, maybe S.H. could do it if he tried.... :) Cheers, Lars ###### From: "Richard" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 18:11:02 -0700 Organization: http://www.supernews.com, The World's Usenet: Discussions Start Here Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6rd8pa$6uh$3@supernews.com> References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.48.95.94 X-Trace: 903489130 I0G4.QBCE5F5ECF30C usenet58.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wli.net!209.144.204.114!newsfeed.corridex.com!Supernews73!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail From the early days I have wondered if I could just hit the right frequency in the vibrations that maybe my physical body would dissolve and go with me to where I was projecting. No. . . never have had success. I wonder if clothing would also go at that point. . . This could be why I have not tried doing it too much. ;-) -- RBWalton Visit this web page for some useful OOB links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net GALLIANOJ wrote in message <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com>... >Has anyone ever heard about 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? >Also, i have heard that the Ascendant Masters can do this...if you believe in >them i dont know. >i think we are doing our best to move our consciousness about from place to >place, having astral gatherings , self experiments etc... >I dont think anyone on this ng would say they could teleport themselves >physically...but i do speak for myself, really... >shhhh....S.H. may still be lurking about...he can do everything! >jean ###### From: Jan Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 18 Aug 1998 21:42:48 GMT Organization: SpiritOne Internet 503-240-8200 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <35D9F3FB.5028C536@spiritone.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <1998081801062000.VAA15298@ladder03.news.aol.com> Reply-To: jan@tonkon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.139.108.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 903476568 CTYA.ZJBS6C02CD8BC usenet77.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: GALLIANOJ X-Trace-ISP: 903476886 22014 205.139.109.124 znk7/F20117:ryyvfba X-Complaints-To-ISP: abuse@spiritone.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail GALLIANOJ wrote: >Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to another location, either accidentally or at will. > Havent you heard of 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? (check it out) Also, I > hear that The Ascendant Masters' can do such things... Ah, yes. And it is spoken of in the New Testament too. . . one of the apostles. Those guys, they were always taking trips, teleporting, OBEs . . . Jan > But i speak mainly for myself, im sure there > are some who would say they can. shhh...S.H. may still be lurking about. > jean ###### From: Jan Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 18 Aug 1998 21:51:16 GMT Organization: SpiritOne Internet 503-240-8200 Lines: 27 Message-ID: <35D9F5F8.F7544F8C@spiritone.com> References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> Reply-To: jan@tonkon.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.139.108.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 903477076 CTYA.ZJBS6C02CD8BC usenet77.supernews.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) To: GALLIANOJ X-Trace-ISP: 903477395 22014 205.139.109.124 znk7/F20117:ryyvfba X-Complaints-To-ISP: abuse@spiritone.com Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!Supernews60!supernews.com!Supernews69!not-for-mail GALLIANOJ wrote: > Has anyone ever heard about 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? Yep! There is a movie you can rent by the same name. I haven't read the book, but suppose to be a true story and it's probably better than the movie. Wasn't this based on Tesla's coils where US govt. was trying to give a ship the ability to disappear (WWII) . . . they succeeded only to find when it came back, men had melded half body in and out of the cement & metal parts of the ship. The ones that survived ended up in mental institutions . . . kind of fried the brain. Two, survived to find themselves teleported into a different time (1950?). Art Bell interviewed the only one alive of the two survivors a few months ago. It was a very interesting show. Jan > Also, i have heard that the Ascendant Masters can do this...if you believe in > them i dont know. > i think we are doing our best to move our consciousness about from place to > place, having astral gatherings , self experiments etc... > I dont think anyone on this ng would say they could teleport themselves > physically...but i do speak for myself, really... > shhhh....S.H. may still be lurking about...he can do everything! > jean ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> <35D9F5F8.F7544F8C@spiritone.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:22:55 +0200 Lines: 36 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p29.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p29.telia.com Message-ID: <35daed1b.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p29.telia.com Jan wrote in message <35D9F5F8.F7544F8C@spiritone.com>... >GALLIANOJ wrote: > >> Has anyone ever heard about 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? > >Yep! There is a movie you can rent by the same name. I haven't read the book, >but suppose to be a true story and it's probably better than the movie. Wasn't >this based on Tesla's coils where US govt. was trying to give a ship the ability >to disappear (WWII) . . . they succeeded only to find when it came back, men had >melded half body in and out of the cement & metal parts of the ship. The ones >that survived ended up in mental institutions . . . kind of fried the brain. >Two, survived to find themselves teleported into a different time (1950?). Art >Bell interviewed the only one alive of the two survivors a few months ago. It >was a very interesting show. > >Jan > The government tried to make it invisible to radars.... I also heard that someone jumped of the boat and appeared in a different time... 1883 or 1983.... Cheers, Lars ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 19:51:23 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 35 Message-ID: <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du95-24.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!news.algonet.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Luke Elson wrote: > > Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to > another location, either accidentally or at will. Of course it is. Teleportation means moving between two places (instantaneously) without ever being in the space between. Sub-atomic particles do this all the time. It is called quantum leaps (quantum tunneling is another example), and is caused by the Uncertainty Principle. Now, the trick is: #1, to do it large distances. Very, very unlikely event. #2, to do it to a very large number of particles at the same time, and the same distance and direction. Very, very, very unlikely to happen. To do both at once: Probability so close to zero that you cannot discern them. Of course, this is the probabilty that it should happen by itself, by pure chance. Somehow you need a way to bend the odds your way, to influence the outcome of zillions of quantum events. Probably not easy, but whoīs to say it canīt be done. Research has shown conclusively that people *can* influence quantum events, probably thru some kind of psychokinesis. Then again, perhaps it can be done some other, easier way. > Thanks Youīre welcome. See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 22:57:25 +0200 Lines: 37 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p29.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p29.telia.com Message-ID: <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p29.telia.com Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote in message <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se>... > >Now, the trick is: > >#1, to do it large distances. Very, very unlikely event. >#2, to do it to a very large number of particles at the same time, and >the same distance and direction. Very, very, very unlikely to happen. >To do both at once: Probability so close to zero that you cannot >discern them. > >Of course, this is the probability that it should happen by itself, by >pure chance. Somehow you need a way to bend the odds your way, to >influence the outcome of zillions of quantum events. Probably not easy, >but whoīs to say it canīt be done. Research has shown conclusively that >people *can* influence quantum events, probably through some kind of >psychokinesis. > Teleportation does NOT happen the way you think it does. It is just like travel instantaneously while Out of Body. You chakras are orgone energy, and orgone energy can travel freely through the space/time dimension... When space travelling do your whole body and cloths and everything you want to come with you follow the orgone energy to your desired destination... Some will call this teleportation, but the right word for it is "true space travel". Cheers, Lars ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 19:39:33 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 32 Message-ID: <35DCCFD5.CCD22A40@soundsculpture.com> References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> <35D9F5F8.F7544F8C@spiritone.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-186.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Jan wrote: > > GALLIANOJ wrote: > > > Has anyone ever heard about 'The Philadelphia Experiment'? > > Yep! There is a movie you can rent by the same name. I haven't read the book, > but suppose to be a true story and it's probably better than the movie. Wasn't > this based on Tesla's coils where US govt. was trying to give a ship the ability > to disappear (WWII) . . . they succeeded only to find when it came back, men had > melded half body in and out of the cement & metal parts of the ship. Yes, it was based on Tesla's design. I suspect that what transpired was this. Two Tesla Coils were situated at the fore and aft of the ship (very high voltage, probably several tens of millions). A Tesla Coil works by emitting an oscillating voltage in the range of several megahertz (millions of polarity changes a second for those unfamiliar with the term). The two coils were adjusted to oscillate at nearly the same but not exactly the same frequency causing a Beat Frequency Oscillation very similar to the BFO created in the Hemi Sync or the Cool Edit program everyone here is familiar with. Due to the very high frequency and voltage of the Tesla Coil the BFO of the coils tears apart the space-time fabric and you get space-time teleportation. Don't try this at home. The government wouldn't like it. If any government agents are listening, honest, I don't mess with Tesla Coils. (That is unless you wanted to pay me and give me immunity.) Ken "Everything should be as simple as possible but not one bit simpler." -Albert Einstein ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:26:51 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 82 Message-ID: <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-186.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wli.net!204.71.60.1!newsfeed.frii.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > Luke Elson wrote: > > > > Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to > > another location, either accidentally or at will. > > Of course it is. Teleportation means moving between two places > (instantaneously) without ever being in the space between. Sub-atomic > particles do this all the time. It is called quantum leaps (quantum > tunneling is another example), and is caused by the Uncertainty > Principle. > > Now, the trick is: > > #1, to do it large distances. Very, very unlikely event. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that quantum leaps occur over much greater (stellar) distances than you might suspect. The Alan Aspect experiment shows that simultaneous spin changes on atomic particles occur between pairs at moderate distances. Assuming that communication between the two particles in question is due to teleportation (obviously something is teleporting, although it's anyones guess what this is) it seems teleportation over vast distances is possible as well. > #2, to do it to a very large number of particles at the same time, and > the same distance and direction. Very, very, very unlikely to happen. > To do both at once: Probability so close to zero that you cannot > discern them. I'm not so sure about this one either. What about entropy (the tendancy for things to fall to pieces and disorganize rather than the other way around). The popular belief has always been that entropy rules in the universe. Yet the same people that hold this belief are generally the same ones that insist that consciousness, and nature in general are things of nature that follow traditional (commonly known) rules. So if this is the case why aren't we all unaware particals of dust. Seems like a no-brainer to me. But to get back to your statement. If entropy is minimized for some reason or another (which seems to happen a lot in nature) then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring in the same direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly likely. Of course I don't see any evidence of this happening (on the surface) so I might be all wet here. > Of course, this is the probabilty that it should happen by itself, by > pure chance. Somehow you need a way to bend the odds your way, to > influence the outcome of zillions of quantum events. Probably not easy, > but whoīs to say it canīt be done. Research has shown conclusively that > people *can* influence quantum events, probably thru some kind of > psychokinesis. I wouldn't be surprised if quantum events occur *solely* due to our existential involvement. The more you think about things the more you have to conclude that our involvement is key in all that is happening. Here's an example. Thought: the odd arrangement of electrical activity occuring between neurons of the brain. There's no denying that this is a fact. Kill electrical activity in certain parts of the brain and your thoughts and outlook on reality change. Use drugs to clog receptors and you experience altered states of reality. Yet there is no logical reason to beleive than random occurances of electrical and chemical activity in the brain cause consiousness. The altered states of awareness can be totally written off as being nothing more than increased or decreased association between consiousness and the physical brain. It does indicate that how we think is determined by the brain, but it does not indicate that thought or consiousness is a product of the brain. My point. Seems to me than neuronic activity is a product of consciousness and not the other way around. Thought provokes millions of neurons and synapses into activity. It's a response not a cause. This being the case it seems thought has a great deal of influence on the state of reality in general including quantum leaps. Does anyone really belive that shooting off a bunch of sparks in the brain can cause us to exist? Seems to me that's like saying that gravity is caused by things falling to the ground. Just a thought. (hehe) Ken ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 21:48:18 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 57 Message-ID: <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du76-92.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-stkh.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Teleportation does NOT happen the way you think it does. It is quite possible that you are right, but it *could*. The known laws of physics allow this form of "teleportation", even though it is exceedingly unlikely to occur by chance. Then again, pehaps some as yet *unknown* physics allows for some other way to teleport. > It is just like travel instantaneously while Out of Body. > You chakras are orgone energy, and orgone energy > can travel freely through the space/time dimension... Admit it, Lars. No one has a good understanding of these things (if anyone has, they are very quiet about it). As I see it the above is just hypotheses of varying credibility. Chakras are a name given to supposed centers in a postulated etheric body. While I think it is very likely that something like chakras exists, I donīt believe just anything I hear about them. That doesnīt mean I disbelieve it entirely, just that I think that something is more or less likely to be true, in the light of my experience so far. Orgone energy is just a name given to some hypothetic energy that supposedly power the chakras, and even if this exists we have at this stage no idea of its qualities or characteristics. If someone tells you they know *exactly* how these things work, it is much more likely than not that he/she is fooling you, (and probably his/herself too). If there be people who *really* understand this, they are very silent about it. I can understand that. In their place, I would be too. > When space travelling do your whole body and cloths > and everything you want to come with you follow the > orgone energy to your desired destination... > > Some will call this teleportation, but the right word for > it is "true space travel". Even if the existence of a phenomenon X agreed to be proven, to state that it is caused by Y, which is powered by Z really doesnīt say anything at all, unless you have at least *some* evidence that Y and Z exist and function the way you say. I find it better not to be so sure about things we really have so very little understanding of. Thatīs why I often use terms like "seem", "possibly", or "probably" when speculating about the inner workings of these things, even when it concerns things I have experienced myself. Things are not always what they seem. > Cheers, > Lars See you out there... /Gunnar P.S BTW Lars, have you ever been to Ålfotbreen? ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 22:49:03 +0200 Lines: 107 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p24.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p24.telia.com Message-ID: <35dc8b0a.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t7o204p24.telia.com Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote in message <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se>... >Lars Rune Foleide wrote: >> >> Teleportation does NOT happen the way you think it does. > >It is quite possible that you are right, but it *could*. The known laws >of physics allow this form of "teleportation", even though it is >exceedingly unlikely to occur by chance. Then again, perhaps some as yet >*unknown* physics allows for some other way to teleport. > Of course it could.... But so far only at an atomic level.... That has experiments suggested..... >> It is just like travel instantaneously while Out of Body. >> You chakras are orgone energy, and orgone energy >> can travel freely through the space/time dimension... > >Admit it, Lars. No one has a good understanding of these things (if >anyone has, they are very quiet about it). As I see it the above is just >hypotheses of varying credibility. Chakras are a name given to supposed >centers in a postulated etheric body. While I think it is very likely >that something like chakras exists, I donīt believe just anything I hear >about them. That doesnīt mean I disbelieve it entirely, just that I >think that something is more or less likely to be true, in the light of >my experience so far. Nobody knows everything about orgonomy. But there are people out there that know fairly much about it. And yes, they are very quiet about it. Orgonomy is a so powerful and delicate field that going public about what you know may put you in trouble with NSA. Reich was put in jail because of his research and work, where he later died. Yes, it is very likely that these centers exists, they have even be measured by a number of people. Even photographed. And maybe even videotaped.... And I have to agree that you should be very skeptical about what you hear about these chakras. Only scientific research can give you solid answers. But not much research is found, so we just have to rely on others experiences so far... My "hypotheses" is a well solid theory that has been proven with experiments. It is what makes Time Travel, Astral Projection, Remote Viewing etc. possible.... > >Orgone energy is just a name given to some hypothetical energy that >supposedly power the chakras, and even if this exists we have at this >stage no idea of its qualities or characteristics. If someone tells you >they know *exactly* how these things work, it is much more likely than >not that he/she is fooling you, (and probably his/herself too). If there >be people who *really* understand this, they are very silent about it. I >can understand that. In their place, I would be too. Orgone energy can be created and measured. I have already told you about its characteristics.... As said, these people that understand orgonomy are quite silent about it. And how it works can be figured out with experiments.... You would maybe be too, I'm on the other hand isn't holding much back.... :) > >> When space travelling do your whole body and cloths >> and everything you want to come with you follow the >> orgone energy to your desired destination... >> >> Some will call this teleportation, but the right word for >> it is "true space travel". > >Even if the existence of a phenomenon X agreed to be proven, to state >that it is caused by Y, which is powered by Z really doesnīt say >anything at all, unless you have at least *some* evidence that Y and Z >exist and function the way you say. Z has been measured, and can be generated. Because of phenomenon X, must it has been caused by Y. Just because X didn't happen without Y being powered by Z. Do you follow? > >I find it better not to be so sure about things we really have so very >little understanding of. Thatīs why I often use terms like "seem", >"possibly", or "probably" when speculating about the inner workings of >these things, even when it concerns things I have experienced myself. > You have maybe very little understanding about this, but there are, as said, people out there with great understand about this. Have I used terms like "seem", "possibly" or "probably"? That is why it is so easy to understand what I have to say.... :) I hate politics... ;) >Things are not always what they seem. > No. But what else can they be? >P.S BTW Lars, have you ever been to Ålfotbreen? Not sure, but I have been to a few local glaciers... Like JostunBreen.... Kindest regards, Lars ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> <35D9F5F8.F7544F8C@spiritone.com> <35DCCFD5.CCD22A40@soundsculpture.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:13:02 +0200 Lines: 39 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t5o204p24.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t5o204p24.telia.com Message-ID: <35dd8dc8.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t5o204p24.telia.com Ken Czepelka wrote in message <35DCCFD5.CCD22A40@soundsculpture.com>... > >Yes, it was based on Tesla's design. I suspect that what transpired was >this. Two Tesla Coils were situated at the fore and aft of the ship >(very high voltage, probably several tens of millions). A Tesla Coil >works by emitting an oscillating voltage in the range of several >megahertz (millions of polarity changes a second for those unfamiliar >with the term). The two coils were adjusted to oscillate at nearly the >same but not exactly the same frequency causing a Beat Frequency >Oscillation very similar to the BFO created in the Hemi Sync or the Cool >Edit program everyone here is familiar with. Due to the very high >frequency and voltage of the Tesla Coil the BFO of the coils tears apart >the space-time fabric and you get space-time teleportation. Don't try >this at home. The government wouldn't like it. If any government >agents are listening, honest, I don't mess with Tesla Coils. (That is >unless you wanted to pay me and give me immunity.) > Interesting.... Was the frequency around 7.8 Hz? (The beat frequency?) (Because that is the time frequency, crystals and magnets oscillate at this frequency. And most good time machines use crystals and/or magnets.... Orgone Energy has a higher vibrating frequency than electricity. But a lot of the energy is found in electric and magnetic fields.... But it is a lot easier to use crystals or magnets than Tesla coils, since crystals and magnets send out pure orgone energy.... Cheers, Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 22 Aug 1998 00:09:07 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 94 Message-ID: References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Ken Czepelka writes: > > Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > > > particles do this all the time. It is called quantum leaps (quantum > > > > #1, to do it large distances. Very, very unlikely event. > > Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that quantum leaps occur over > much greater (stellar) distances than you might suspect. The Alan > Aspect experiment shows that simultaneous spin changes on atomic > particles occur between pairs at moderate distances. Assuming that > communication between the two particles in question is due to > teleportation (obviously something is teleporting, although it's anyones > guess what this is) it seems teleportation over vast distances is > possible as well. Hmmmm. IMHO there is no teleporting needed (I define that word as meaning: to transfer _matter_). Only transfer of information is needed. That is a lot easier. Just take this message. It it typed somewhere in Switzerland, it appears on your monitor somewhere else in the world. Something got transfered. But that was not matter, only information. Matter was slightly involved: some electrons in my computer nudged some in the phone line, they nudged them in the routers, news servers and ultimately your computer, an veritable avalanche of nudging. But my electrons are still here, moved perhaps a few millimeters, perhaps even back at their original place after vibrating for a while (Ethernet is known to do this, only woble, don't move). > > #2, to do it to a very large number of particles at the same time, and > > the same distance and direction. Very, very, very unlikely to happen. > > To do both at once: Probability so close to zero that you cannot > > discern them. > > I'm not so sure about this one either. What about entropy (the tendancy > for things to fall to pieces and disorganize rather than the other way > around). Tendency, but they don't allways do it, just mostly. > The popular belief has always been that entropy rules in the > universe. That is also the current scientific belief. > things of nature that follow traditional (commonly known) rules. So if > this is the case why aren't we all unaware particals of dust. Seems > like a no-brainer to me. But to get back to your statement. If > entropy is minimized for some reason or another (which seems to happen a > lot in nature) Actually it is transfered. For example a small decrease of entropy in your brain is offset by an larger increase in entropy in the food you are digesting. The entire entropy decrease of terran life is offset by an larger increase in the sun. In the whole (in physics this is called an closed system) it increases, but locally (open system) it decreases. > then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring in the same > direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly likely. The problem is one of coordination, not transportation. That is the crux of teleportation of multi-particle objects. That is what makes it unlikely. And AFAIK there is no way to get round that one. > > but whoīs to say it canīt be done. Research has shown conclusively that > > people *can* influence quantum events, probably thru some kind of > > psychokinesis. > > I wouldn't be surprised if quantum events occur *solely* due to our > existential involvement. The more you think about things the more you > have to conclude that our involvement is key in all that is happening. Standard occult theory. The physical world and all that goes on in it is the result of conciousness making and modifying it. Actually the base of pantheism of the type Bart believes in. > Just a thought. (he he) And not an particularly new one :-) -- home: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:53:03 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 136 Message-ID: <35DDC20F.9D84D554@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se> <35dc8b0a.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du250-93.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!194.106.32.13.MISMATCH!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!news.freedom2surf.net!diablo.theplanet.net!london-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!news.algonet.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Of course it could.... But so far only at an atomic level.... > That has experiments suggested..... Yes, so far. > Nobody knows everything about orgonomy. But there are people > out there that know fairly much about it. And yes, they are very quiet > about it. Orgonomy is a so powerful and delicate field that going > public about what you know may put you in trouble with NSA. Is that so? ;-) > Reich was put in jail because of his research and work, where he later > died. Yes, it is very likely that these centers exists, they have even > be measured by a number of people. Even photographed. And maybe even > videotaped.... And I have to agree that you should be very skeptical > about what you hear about these chakras. While certainly not wishing to be taken for a "Skeptic", I think one should be quite sceptical (in the true sense of the word) about things one hears or reads. Especially if someone claims to have *all* the answers. Then my bullshit-o-meter goes off scale. ;-) > Only scientific research can give you solid answers. But not much > research is found, so we just have to rely on others experiences so > far... I find it better to *rely* only on personal experience, and to *accept* (in the Fortean sense) other things with varying degrees of probability. After all, the only thing you really can *know* is (by definition) your own experience. > My "hypotheses" is a well solid theory that has been proven with > experiments. Has it now. > It is what makes Time Travel, Astral Projection, Remote Viewing etc. > possible.... Is it? Lars, donīt you think you are just a little bit naïve? Just because someone *says* that something functions a certain way, it doesnīt necessarily follow that it really is so. There are at least four possibilities: 1. The person is a liar, and is lying to you. 2. The person thinks he/she is right, but is in fact not. 3. The person is partly right, but also partly wrong. 4. The person is correct on all accounts. So far I havenīt seen a shred of said evidence for this Orgonomy. Donīt misunderstand me; Iīm not saying that it *is* wrong - just that I am not certain that it is right. > Orgone energy can be created and measured. > I have already told you about its characteristics.... > As said, these people that understand orgonomy are quite silent > about it. And how it works can be figured out with experiments.... As I recall the term "Orgone energy" isnīt new at all - correct me if Iīm wrong, Lars, but wasnīt the term introduced sometime in the 30s or 40s in... Czechoslovakia? You would think that if there was something of value in this it would have spread out a little more, wouldnīt you? > You would maybe be too, I'm on the other hand isn't holding much > back.... :) Indeed not. (Boy, this is surely the understatement of the year! ;-) > Z has been measured, and can be generated. Because of phenomenon X, > must it has been caused by Y. Just because X didn't happen without Y > being powered by Z. Do you follow? Not entirely, I must confess. ;-) > You have maybe very little understanding about this, but there are, as > said, people out there with great understand about this. But are there? There are certainly people who *claim* to possess great understanding of both these and other things, but are they telling the truth? Shouldnīt they then be able to display their understanding or power in some way, other than going Guru and collecting mindless followers and their money? I feel no shame in admitting that I indeed have a very small understanding of these things, but I very much doubt that many others know much more. As I said, if there really are people out there who *really* know these things, then they are *very* silent about it. If I encounter someone who claims to "know it all", as it were, then I immediately become *very* suspicious - especially if they want money! ;-) > Have I used terms like "seem", "possibly" or "probably"? I donīt think so, but perhaps you should. > That is why it is so easy to understand what I have to say.... :) And thatīs also why you are so very likely to be *dead wrong*, at least in some areas. Things are almost never so simple as originally thought. > I hate politics... ;) So what has politics got to do with this? > >Things are not always what they seem. > > > > No. But what else can they be? Why, perhaps something altogether different, that just *appears* to be what it seems to. (Simple example: The Sun *seems* to rise and set, but in reality it is the Earth that rotates.) > >P.S BTW Lars, have you ever been to Ålfotbreen? > > Not sure, but I have been to a few local glaciers... > Like JostunBreen.... You mean Jostedalsbreen? I seem to recall you writing somewhere that you were from the town of Nordfjordeid. Ålfotbreen is a small ice cap, that lies in the neighborhood - about 25 km to the SW of the town. The precipitation on this glacier is tremendous - ca 5500 mm/year in melted form. Snow depths of 12-15 m are not uncommon. (Glaciers is a special interest of mine, as you might have suspected.) > Kindest regards, > Lars See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se> <35dc8b0a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DDC20F.9D84D554@algonet.se> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 22:01:27 +0200 Lines: 223 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p47.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p47.telia.com Message-ID: <35ddd161.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p47.telia.com Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote in message <35DDC20F.9D84D554@algonet.se>... > >> Nobody knows everything about orgonomy. But there are people >> out there that know fairly much about it. And yes, they are very quiet >> about it. Orgonomy is a so powerful and delicate field that going >> public about what you know may put you in trouble with NSA. > >Is that so? ;-) > Some of my PSI friends have had some bad experience with NSA. Very bad... I don't like them either, in fact, there is nothing that I know about them that I can give them credit for..... > >While certainly not wishing to be taken for a "Skeptic", I think one >should be quite skeptical (in the true sense of the word) about things >one hears or reads. Especially if someone claims to have *all* the >answers. Then my bullshit-o-meter goes off scale. ;-) > Nobody has told be that they have *all* the answers.... It is more on the contrary... But the few I have talked with have many years of experience and have almost read everything on the subject they could get their hands on.... >> Only scientific research can give you solid answers. But not much >> research is found, so we just have to rely on others experiences so >> far... > >I find it better to *rely* only on personal experience, and to *accept* >(in the Fortean sense) other things with varying degrees of probability. >After all, the only thing you really can *know* is (by definition) your >own experience. > Quite right, nothing is better than personal experience... >> It is what makes Time Travel, Astral Projection, Remote Viewing etc. >> possible.... > >Is it? Lars, donīt you think you are just a little bit naïve? Just >because someone *says* that something functions a certain way, it >doesnīt necessarily follow that it really is so. There are at least four >possibilities: > >1. The person is a liar, and is lying to you. Highly unlikely, it is easy to tell a liar from one that is telling the truth after one month.... >2. The person thinks he/she is right, but is in fact not. It is only many experiments that has resulted in a theory. Based on the same experiments would I conclude with the same theory.... >3. The person is partly right, but also partly wrong. When you gather a lot of information and experiments to back up your theory does the likelihood of being wrong decrease... But we will never be able to exclude that possibility that the theory may be wrong. But the experiments will always remain the same.... >4. The person is correct on all accounts. Also possible, more experiments will most likely only back up the theory..... > >So far I havenīt seen a shred of said evidence for this Orgonomy. Donīt >misunderstand me; Iīm not saying that it *is* wrong - just that I am not >certain that it is right. Orgone experiments are easy to conduct with the right components, conductors, basic electronic knowledge and of course knowledge about orgonomy. I have still not shared any orgone devices. Want to do some experimenting myself first... Will get back to that later on.... A few interesting posts can be found at alt.orgonomy > >> Orgone energy can be created and measured. >> I have already told you about its characteristics.... >> As said, these people that understand orgonomy are quite silent >> about it. And how it works can be figured out with experiments.... > >As I recall the term "Orgone energy" isnīt new at all - correct me if >Iīm wrong, Lars, but wasnīt the term introduced sometime in the 30s or >40s in... Czechoslovakia? You would think that if there was something of >value in this it would have spread out a little more, wouldnīt you? Wasn't it Reich? I may be wrong on that, not that up'n'up on the history of orgonomy... My experience is that the great news is what you hear last.... So I wouldn't count of hearing it in the news... Not with the first anyway... And as said, not many people have tremendous success with orgonomy. Well, not many are into orgonomy at all.... And those who are, are usually rather quiet about it... They are more interested in conducting experiments than writing a book... > >> Z has been measured, and can be generated. Because of phenomenon X, >> must it has been caused by Y. Just because X didn't happen without Y >> being powered by Z. Do you follow? > >Not entirely, I must confess. ;-) Well, you had to bring X, Y and Z into this discussion.... :) I might add that: Because of Z doing Y, did X happen. X wouldn't have happened without Z doing Y. > >> You have maybe very little understanding about this, but there are, as >> said, people out there with great understand about this. > >But are there? There are certainly people who *claim* to possess great >understanding of both these and other things, but are they telling the >truth? Shouldnīt they then be able to display their understanding or >power in some way, other than going Guru and collecting mindless >followers and their money? > Nobody has claimed to know everything about Orgonomy, it is such a vast subject that having full understand of it will take many years (at least) of intense research. Well, a lot of research have been conducted already, so with the right contacts can you maybe cut it down to a year... I'm still not sure if I know the full spectrum of what orgone energy can do. But they have not collected my money, it is more the other way around... ;) >I feel no shame in admitting that I indeed have a very small >understanding of these things, but I very much doubt that many others >know much more. As I said, if there really are people out there who >*really* know these things, then they are *very* silent about it. If I >encounter someone who claims to "know it all", as it were, then I >immediately become *very* suspicious - especially if they want money! >;-) I would too if they wanted money, but such is certainly not the case... But you may know that I have a very open mind, so discussion this subject with me is rather liberating and easy.... I'm just glad of the little understand I have in the subject of orgonomy.... > >> Have I used terms like "seem", "possibly" or "probably"? > >I donīt think so, but perhaps you should. Maybe, but people are skeptical of nature, so I don't have to do that... :) > >> That is why it is so easy to understand what I have to say.... :) > >And thatīs also why you are so very likely to be *dead wrong*, at least >in some areas. Things are almost never so simple as originally thought. Yeah, and I hate being *dead wrong*... Hope that day will never come... > >> I hate politics... ;) > >So what has politics got to do with this? > Aren't these word usually used by politicians....? ("seem", "possibly", or "probably") Well, they promise everything and do nothing.... Or else they talking a lot about nothing..... >> >Things are not always what they seem. >> > >> >> No. But what else can they be? > >Why, perhaps something altogether different, that just *appears* to be >what it seems to. (Simple example: The Sun *seems* to rise and set, but >in reality it is the Earth that rotates.) I see your point.... But mistakes like that are less likely on a smaller scale... > >I seem to recall you writing somewhere that you were from the town of >Nordfjordeid. Ålfotbreen is a small ice cap, that lies in the >neighborhood - about 25 km to the SW of the town. The precipitation on >this glacier is tremendous - ca 5500 mm/year in melted form. Snow depths >of 12-15 m are not uncommon. (Glaciers is a special interest of mine, as >you might have suspected.) > I have a friend that frequently walks on glaciers.... I have still not done it... :) But I think there is something called Ålfotbreen over the bay, the 1000 meter mountain and over another bay.... It is not uncommon to hear on the radio that people have died in these glaciers... And yes, buy asking such a detailed question would suggest that you have some sort of interest in these glaciers... All the best.... Lars ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 20:50:22 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 166 Message-ID: <35DF12EE.76A162C6@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se> <35dc8b0a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DDC20F.9D84D554@algonet.se> <35ddd161.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du67-25.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!news.algonet.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Some of my PSI friends have had some bad experience with NSA. > Very bad... > I don't like them either, in fact, there is nothing that I know about > them that I can give them credit for..... What about protecting the security of the State? [snip] > >> Z has been measured, and can be generated. Because of phenomenon X, > >> must it has been caused by Y. Just because X didn't happen without > >> Y being powered by Z. Do you follow? > > > >Not entirely, I must confess. ;-) > > Well, you had to bring X, Y and Z into this discussion.... :) Yeah, mea culpa. ;-) > I might add that: Because of Z doing Y, did X happen. X wouldn't have > happened without Z doing Y. (But perhaps X also can be caused by Å, which in influenced by Ä and Ö - No, forget all the letters! Theyīre giving me a headache. ;-) Anyway, often things are not caused by a single thing, but instead of several different causes working in concert. Genes seem to work this way, for example. [snip] > >> That is why it is so easy to understand what I have to say.... :) > > > >And thatīs also why you are so very likely to be *dead wrong*, at > >least in some areas. Things are almost never so simple as originally > >thought. > > Yeah, and I hate being *dead wrong*... Hope that day will never > come... Unfortunately - and Iīm really trying to help you here, Lars - unless you develop at least some healthy scepticism, you are quite likely to be dead wrong at least at some time. You need not only to be a bit wary of othersī claims and intents, but also of your own beliefs. Sometimes ask yourself: This pet theory of mine, does it really, as seen objectively, explain the phenomenon well? Could there be some other explanation? Perhaps only a smaller revision is needed? Or maybe none at all. If you donīt believe anything at 100%, then you by simple logic simply cannot be 100% wrong. ;-) > >> I hate politics... ;) > > > >So what has politics got to do with this? > > > > Aren't these word usually used by politicians....? > ("seem", "possibly", or "probably") Not really. They mostly throw dirt on their opponents, make worthless promises and enrich themselves. :-( Scientists, on the other hand often use these words. Journalist donīt; they always want everything absolutely certain and black & white. > Well, they promise everything and do nothing.... > Or else they talking a lot about nothing..... That is certainly true. > >> >Things are not always what they seem. > >> > > >> > >> No. But what else can they be? > > > >Why, perhaps something altogether different, that just *appears* to > >be what it seems to. (Simple example: The Sun *seems* to rise and > >set, but in reality it is the Earth that rotates.) > > I see your point.... > But mistakes like that are less likely on a smaller scale... Not at all. The history of science is a history of mistakes. Take the matter of chemical combustion for example. Early on, people believed that there was an element called Fire, and this transformed e.g. wood (of the element Earth) to smoke (of the element Air). Quite elaborate theories were constructed around this. Later, a substance called Phlogiston was postulated. Combustion was supposed to happen by transference of Phlogiston. It was not until the discovery of oxygen and the structure of molecules that combustion really was understood. So, scientists construct a mathemathical model, which hopefully mimics the natural process with at least *some* accuracy, and which can be used to make predictions, which can be tested. Even if the theory is successful, some anomalies may remain. If they are persistent enough, the anomalies may force a whole reevaluation of the theory. Perhaps the earlier theory is only a special case of a wider, more general one. And so on. This is of course what has happened to Newtonīs laws of motion. They have been superseeded by, or rather included as a special case in, Einsteinīs Special theory of Relativity. Which itself is only a part of the General theory of Relativity. Which itself may only be a special case of some, as yet unknown, even wider and more complicated theory. Someone once said: - The Universe cannot be explained or described by something less intricate and complicated than itself. It is its own simplest description. This may very well be so. It is a hallmark of chaotic systems to be their own simplest descriptions, and the Universe is probably such. > >I seem to recall you writing somewhere that you were from the town of > >Nordfjordeid. Ålfotbreen is a small ice cap, that lies in the > >neighborhood - about 25 km to the SW of the town. The precipitation > >on this glacier is tremendous - ca 5500 mm/year in melted form. Snow > >depths of 12-15 m are not uncommon. (Glaciers is a special interest > >of mine, as you might have suspected.) > > > > I have a friend that frequently walks on glaciers.... > I have still not done it... :) It is really fun. (Not quite as much as being OOB, but still. ;-) Hmm, how about a glacier tour while OOB, now *that* would be something. > But I think there is something called Ålfotbreen over the bay, > the 1000 meter mountain and over another bay.... Indeed there is. > It is not uncommon to hear on the radio that people have died in these > glaciers... Well, we all gotta die sometime, isnīt that so? There are dangers to be sure; 20 m deep crevasses hidden under snow, even deeper moulins (up to a few m wide vertical shafts in the ice), unexpected ice avalanches et.c. I donīt recommend novices to get onto glaciers on their own without the right equipment and competent guides. But it is so gorgeous there: Ice with a color so blue it almost beggars description - even in bad weather, savagely crevassed icefalls with ice towers reminiscent of fantasy castles, meandering meltwater streams incised into the ice surface, cracking and creaking noises, vast gently undulating pristine snowfields in the upper parts - glaciers seem almost *alive*. Oh, excuse me - I got carried away. Happens sometimes when I write about glaciers. Anyway, itīs really nice there. > And yes, buy asking such a detailed question would suggest that you > have some sort of interest in these glaciers... > > All the best.... > Lars See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 20:54:14 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 132 Message-ID: <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du250-93.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!netnews.com!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!news.algonet.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Hi Ken. Ken Czepelka wrote: > > Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that quantum leaps occur > over much greater (stellar) distances than you might suspect. The > Alan Aspect experiment shows that simultaneous spin changes on atomic > particles occur between pairs at moderate distances. This is a very interesting experiment in its own right, but it has nothing to do with teleportation. This effect you are talking about is called "non-locality", and implies either FTL *information* exchange, or some kind of "connectedness" inherent in matter itself; take your pick! > Assuming that communication between the two particles in question is > due to teleportation (obviously something is teleporting, although > it's anyones guess what this is) it seems teleportation over vast > distances is possible as well. Assuming that yes, but I see no need for such assumption. What you have here is, from the beginning, 2 particles. Later, when they are distant from each other and you are measuring them, they are still the same 2 particles. No need to assume anything is teleporting. What *is* puzzling, is that one particle seems able to influence the other instantaneously (or at least much faster than light), even over great distances. > I'm not so sure about this one either. What about entropy (the > tendancy for things to fall to pieces and disorganize rather than the > other way around). The popular belief has always been that entropy > rules in the universe. Yet the same people that hold this belief are > generally the same ones that insist that consciousness, and nature in > general are things of nature that follow traditional (commonly known) > rules. So if this is the case why aren't we all unaware particals of > dust. Entropy must indeed, according to known physics, always increase *in a closed system*. This last part is often forgotten, and the law misunderstood. The Universe is a closed system by definition, so in the Universe *as a whole* entropy must always increase. However, the 2nd law of thermodynamics does allow entropy to *decrease* in open systems. These can do this because they "import" high-quality energy, and "export" low-quality energy, that is, heat. In practice an entropy decrease somewhere is "paid for" by a larger increase somewhere else. There is nothing mysterious about entropy decreases - it occurs spontaneously even in the non-living realms. When water freezes to ice, the water molecules get into a more ordered state than before. They can do this because they release heat (=entropy) to their surroundings. Another example is the Universe itself. Just after the Big Bang the Universe was very disordered indeed - a mind-bogglingly hot and dense soup of subatomic particles and pure energy. Then Gravity makes galaxies, stars and planets, the Strong force produces thermonuclear energy, the Weak force radioactivity, and the Electromagnetic force makes for electric and magnetic fields, as well as all chemistry. All because the Universe started with a lot of very high-quality energy (negative entropy). > Seems like a no-brainer to me. But to get back to your statement. > If entropy is minimized for some reason or another (which seems to > happen a lot in nature) then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring > in the same direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly > likely. Not necessarily. Local entropy decreases can be explained perfectly well without invoking synchronized quantum events en masse. > Of course I don't see any evidence of this happening (on the surface) > so I might be all wet here. > > I wouldn't be surprised if quantum events occur *solely* due to our > existential involvement. The more you think about things the more you > have to conclude that our involvement is key in all that is happening. > > Here's an example. Thought: the odd arrangement of electrical > activity occuring between neurons of the brain. There's no denying > that this is a fact. Kill electrical activity in certain parts of the > brain and your thoughts and outlook on reality change. Use drugs to > clog receptors and you experience altered states of reality. Yet > there is no logical reason to beleive than random occurances of > electrical and chemical activity in the brain cause consiousness. Indeed not. Many people in this NG have good reason to believe otherwise. ;-) > The altered states of awareness can be totally written off as being > nothing more than increased or decreased association between > consiousness and the physical brain. It does indicate that how we > think is determined by the brain, but it does not indicate that > thought or consiousness is a product of the brain. I couldnīt agree more! :-) > My point. Seems to me than neuronic activity is a product of > consciousness and not the other way around. Thought provokes millions > of neurons and synapses into activity. It's a response not a cause. > This being the case it seems thought has a great deal of influence on > the state of reality in general including quantum leaps. I think you are basically correct, with one exception (or rather omission): I think neuronic activity can *influence* thought, but not *cause* it. As follows: Motoric activity: As you said; thoughts cause neuronic activity, likely by influencing quantum events thru nano-psychokinesis. Result: the arm moves (or whatever). Sensoric activity: The eye absorbs a particular pattern of photons, which gives rise to some other pattern of neuronic activity. The consciousness senses this in some way (nano-clairvoyance?), and you see the cat (or whatever). I think the brain is basically an "interface" between the physical body and the non-physical consciousness; a biochemical structure that is exceedingly sensitive to the very elusive powers of nano-PK and nano-CV. > Does anyone really belive that shooting off a bunch of sparks in the > brain can cause us to exist? Seems to me that's like saying that > gravity is caused by things falling to the ground. :-) Ha ha ha ha ha!!! Great! ROTFLMAO! :-) > Just a thought. (hehe) > > Ken See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:40:07 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 168 Message-ID: <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-191.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > Ken Czepelka wrote: > > > > Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that quantum leaps occur > > over much greater (stellar) distances than you might suspect. The > > Alan Aspect experiment shows that simultaneous spin changes on atomic > > particles occur between pairs at moderate distances. > > This is a very interesting experiment in its own right, but it has > nothing to do with teleportation. This effect you are talking about is > called "non-locality", and implies either FTL *information* exchange, or > some kind of "connectedness" inherent in matter itself; take your pick! It may not, but then again it may. I think teleportation can be considered a third possible explaination to the two you give above if you consider in depth the mechanisms behind the first two. First take FTL information exchange. Since FTL implies communication using a different mechanism than electromagnetic communication through space one has to ask what form it could take. One possibility is communication through the use of the theorized Tachyon particals. But the theory states that Tachyons require larger amounts of energy as they slow down to the speed of light and therefore are most at home going much much faster, perhaps even attaining infinite speed at zero energy levels. If this is true, then zero energy Tachyons teleport by definition. True, it's not the original Aspect particals that teleported, but it shows the possibility that at least something can teleport over large distances. The second mechanism you offer is some kind of "connectedness" between the particals. This one is very interesting to me because you then have to consider what it is that does the connecting. If there is anything at all connecting two particals it would likely be a communication link which would put it under the first explaination. If it were some kind of etheric material "shaft" that connected the particles then the link wouldn't be instantaneous as implied by the experiment since conveying torque through a shaft is still a cause an effect type of action and has inherent delay. But if I read you right I suspect that you weren't talking about a link at all in this regard but rather a link void of space between the two particals. This to me seems highly plausable. It implies that the two particals are far apart in our reality but on some other level they occupy the same space and perhaps in some respects are even one in the same. The two particals spin together because they are in essence the same partical. This is similar to standing between two mirrors where all images turn together when the subject turns, but differ in that the particals aren't just reflections, but very much a dual occurance of the same partical. Very very interesting idea, don't you think? Now I have offered teleportation (other than tachyon teleportation) as a third explaination. It is essentially the same idea as offered in the last paragraph but without the simultaneous occurance of the two particals. In other words there is only one partical in two locations in our reality, and on an etheric level it is always just in one place at all times. So on the etheric level there is no teleportation or even any spacial movement at all, but the physical level the location of the two particals changes with at an infinitely rapid rate. Teleportation back and forth between two locations at an infinite rate of oscillation. The net effect would be the appearance of two particals, but in reality only one teleporting back and forth. > > I'm not so sure about this one either. What about entropy (the > > tendancy for things to fall to pieces and disorganize rather than the > > other way around). The popular belief has always been that entropy > > rules in the universe. Yet the same people that hold this belief are > > generally the same ones that insist that consciousness, and nature in > > general are things of nature that follow traditional (commonly known) > > rules. So if this is the case why aren't we all unaware particals of > > dust. > > Entropy must indeed, according to known physics, always increase *in a > closed system*. This last part is often forgotten, and the law > misunderstood. The Universe is a closed system by definition, so in the > Universe *as a whole* entropy must always increase. > > However, the 2nd law of thermodynamics does allow entropy to *decrease* > in open systems. These can do this because they "import" high-quality > energy, and "export" low-quality energy, that is, heat. In practice an > entropy decrease somewhere is "paid for" by a larger increase somewhere > else. Ah, I had forgotten about this. Thank's for pointing it out. All right then, taking this into account, can lowered entropy be used to explain quantum leaps of large quantities, in the same direction, at the same time. let's continue. > > There is nothing mysterious about entropy decreases - it occurs > spontaneously even in the non-living realms. When water freezes to ice, > the water molecules get into a more ordered state than before. They can > do this because they release heat (=entropy) to their surroundings. OK. > > Another example is the Universe itself. Just after the Big Bang the > Universe was very disordered indeed - a mind-bogglingly hot and dense > soup of subatomic particles and pure energy. Then Gravity makes > galaxies, stars and planets, the Strong force produces thermonuclear > energy, the Weak force radioactivity, and the Electromagnetic force > makes for electric and magnetic fields, as well as all chemistry. All > because the Universe started with a lot of very high-quality energy > (negative entropy). Was this negative entropy at the beginning paid for by positive entropy on the astral plane? Is that what you are saying? And if so then the astral plane must have suffered quite a shock of disarray. "Heaven destroyed by the big bang, news at 10" :) But getting back to teleportation.... > > If entropy is minimized for some reason or another (which seems to > > happen a lot in nature) then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring > > in the same direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly > > likely. > > Not necessarily. Local entropy decreases can be explained perfectly well > without invoking synchronized quantum events en masse. But synchornized quantum events en masse can be considered local (we are only talking about teleporting a body here, not the whole universe). And therefore can lose entropy at the expense of something else. Something like thought for example. Perhaps the definition of thought or more accurately "intent" is "an increase of entropy on an astral level causeing a decrease in entropy on a physical level producing action in life forms or in extreme cases quantum leaps of particals en masse". Perhaps the big bang (negative entropy) was caused by one big thought (positive entropy) on a non physical level. Hmmmmm.... > > I think you are basically correct, with one exception (or rather > omission): I think neuronic activity can *influence* thought, but not > *cause* it. As follows: > > Motoric activity: As you said; thoughts cause neuronic activity, likely > by influencing quantum events thru nano-psychokinesis. Result: the arm > moves (or whatever). > > Sensoric activity: The eye absorbs a particular pattern of photons, > which gives rise to some other pattern of neuronic activity. The > consciousness senses this in some way (nano-clairvoyance?), and you see > the cat (or whatever). Yes, excellent addition. It completes the picture nicely. > > I think the brain is basically an "interface" between the physical body > and the non-physical consciousness; a biochemical structure that is > exceedingly sensitive to the very elusive powers of nano-PK and nano-CV. I agree completely. > > > Does anyone really belive that shooting off a bunch of sparks in the > > brain can cause us to exist? Seems to me that's like saying that > > gravity is caused by things falling to the ground. > > :-) Ha ha ha ha ha!!! Great! ROTFLMAO! :-) Thanks for replying Gunnar. I always enjoy reading your posts. Ken "Everything should be as simple as possible but not one bit simpler." -Albert Einstein ###### From: Ken S. Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 21 Aug 1998 20:37:42 PDT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 22 Message-ID: <35de3c19.17129459@news.ke9nr.org> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts001d43.las-nv.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master Hi Neil and Ken - On 22 Aug 1998 00:09:07 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: >> then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring in the same >> direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly likely. > >The problem is one of coordination, not transportation. That is the >crux of teleportation of multi-particle objects. That is what makes it >unlikely. And AFAIK there is no way to get round that one. But is quantum leaps the only way for something to get from one place to another without traveling through the intervening space? Not necessarily. That one method of teleportation may be extremely unlikely, but that's not to say that there aren't other possibilities. "Beam me up, Scotty." "Very funny, now beam up my clothes!!!" The Other Ken http://www.ke9nr.org/ ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 13:42:49 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 133 Message-ID: <35DF1F39.7BC28F25@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-191.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!denver-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!coop.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > > Ken Czepelka writes: > > > > (snip).. Assuming that > > communication between the two particles in question is due to > > teleportation (obviously something is teleporting, although it's anyones > > guess what this is) it seems teleportation over vast distances is > > possible as well. > > Hmmmm. IMHO there is no teleporting needed (I define that word as > meaning: to transfer _matter_). Only transfer of information is > needed. That is a lot easier. Yes, transfer of matter is how I define teleportation as well. > > Just take this message. It it typed somewhere in Switzerland, it > appears on your monitor somewhere else in the world. Something got > transfered. But that was not matter, only information. At a macro level I agree, but at a subatomic level I think there is a finer line as you discuss below. > > Matter was slightly involved: some electrons in my computer nudged > some in the phone line, they nudged them in the routers, news servers > and ultimately your computer, an veritable avalanche of nudging. But > my electrons are still here, moved perhaps a few millimeters, perhaps > even back at their original place after vibrating for a while True, but there is slightly more than nudging going on. In fact at a data rate of 28k baud, electrons will move completely from your terminal to a terminal 6 miles away before returning at the next polarity change. At DC electrons will move from their source to their destination (negative to positive side of a battery for example) and never return. I do recognize that this is somewhat superficial since no one really knows if electrons "flow" like we were taught in school or if they somehow teleport following the Heisenberg uncertainty principle but my point is that it does seem like matter is really the carrier of information and that information can't be carried without it. So if information moves across distance instantaneiously, then to at least some degree so does matter, and that is teleportation. > > The popular belief has always been that entropy rules in the > > universe. > > That is also the current scientific belief. Right. > > (snip) then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring in the same > > direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly likely. > > The problem is one of coordination, not transportation. That is the > crux of teleportation of multi-particle objects. That is what makes it > unlikely. And AFAIK there is no way to get round that one. Yes, it is a tough problem. But there is hope. There has been an experiment done usin the Quantum Zeno effect that show that the location of photons created from collapsing probability waves can be influenced by a remote object by some clever use of optics. This might not lead to teleportation but in the least can lead to devices capable of remote viewing. One such device being thought about is an x-ray machine that can take x-rays of people or objects without the person or object being exposed to the radiation. The way it works is quite simple and quite clever. The person is positioned in one path of a split beam x-ray path with the intent of recombining the beam from the person with the second reference path creating a hologram of the persons guts. But then the magic begins. The beam that is suppose to go through the person is influenced by some clever optics so that the probability that it will is reduced to zero. Now all of the x-rays that might have gone through the person don't. The funny thing is the x-rays still think that some how they have since there was a probability that they should have. Kind of an x-ray mind game if you will. When the beams are recombined (actually, there is now only one beam, the reference beam since the other one no longer exists but the x-rays don't know that) then there is an interference pattern created on the film and Voila' you have a hologram of the persons inners without any x-rays actually passing through that person. Since the person was never near the x-rays, the x-rays somehow "remote viewed" the person. I know it all sounds like hocus pocus but it's one of the greatest scientific findings of the decade in my opinion. It was written up in Scientific American about 2 years ago and and can be read about here: http://p23.lanl.gov/Quantum/kwiat/ifm-folder/ifmtext.html > > > but whoīs to say it canīt be done. Research has shown conclusively that > > > people *can* influence quantum events, probably thru some kind of > > > psychokinesis. > > > > I wouldn't be surprised if quantum events occur *solely* due to our > > existential involvement. The more you think about things the more you > > have to conclude that our involvement is key in all that is happening. > > Standard occult theory. The physical world and all that goes on in it > is the result of conciousness making and modifying it. Actually the > base of pantheism of the type Bart believes in. But so many things indicate that this is the case. The most common is the single partical dual slit experiment. Where a single photon will interfere with itself or not influenced solely by whether or not we try to determine which slit is is traveling through. If that isn't an excellent demonstration of our awareness's affect on physical reality, then I don't know what is. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle clearly demonstrates that our awareness influences everything. Since we cannot both measure position and velocity of a subatomic partical simultaneously, this is pretty strong evidence that both do not exist simultaneously. Since a particles existance is defined by *both* its velocity and it's position, and since we know that we are living in a world of particles. We can conclude that our consious awareness of them define them. That is pretty darn strong evidence to me. > > > Just a thought. (he he) > > And not an particularly new one :-) Of course not, Descartes was thinking such thoughts hundreds of years ago. Thanks for responding, Ken "Everything should be as simple as possible but not one bit simpler." -Albert Einstein ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 23 Aug 1998 00:01:31 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 108 Message-ID: References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1F39.7BC28F25@soundsculpture.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Ken Czepelka writes: > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > > Just take this message. It it typed somewhere in Switzerland, it > > appears on your monitor somewhere else in the world. Something got > > transfered. But that was not matter, only information. > > At a macro level I agree, but at a subatomic level I think there is a > finer line as you discuss below. > > > > > Matter was slightly involved: some electrons in my computer nudged > > some in the phone line, they nudged them in the routers, news servers > > and ultimately your computer, an veritable avalanche of nudging. But > > my electrons are still here, moved perhaps a few millimeters, perhaps > > even back at their original place after vibrating for a while > > True, but there is slightly more than nudging going on. In fact at a > data rate of 28k baud, electrons will move completely from your terminal > to a terminal 6 miles away before returning at the next polarity change. > At DC electrons will move from their source to their destination > (negative to positive side of a battery for example) and never return. > I do recognize that this is somewhat superficial since no one really > knows if electrons "flow" like we were taught in school or if they > somehow teleport following the Heisenberg uncertainty principle Actually not. The information (signal) moves with ca 2/3 light speed (in copper), but the actual electrons making up the inpulse only move very slowly. Think of an ocean wave overtaking an swimmer who is actually moving faster then the water molecules. We once did this calculation when I was studying electrical engineer: 1 A current is 6.24*10^18 electrons/second. For a phone call (a few 100 mV on a few 100 ohm = ca 1 mA) and my 14400 modem (2400 Hz signalling) that is ca 3*10^12 electrons exiting/reentering the line for each pulse. 1 m of phone line (0.15 mm^2) is ca 150*7 mg = ca 1g of copper. That has about 10^25 free (conduction-usable) electrons.so we need to shift about 1/3*10^12 of our electrons of of the cable, so move all electrons 1/3*10^12 of our 1 m. That is 1/3 picometer = 300 angstroem, so less then the atom distance. That still fits with my definition of nudging. Yes, it is extremely small. > but my > point is that it does seem like matter is really the carrier of electrons 1/3*10^12 of our 1 m. That is 1/3 picometer = 300 angstroem, so less then the atom distance. That still fits with my definition of nudging. Yes, it is extremely small. > but my > point is that it does seem like matter is really the carrier of > information and that information can't be carried without it. So if > information moves across distance instantaneiously, then to at least > some degree so does matter, and that is teleportation. Matte ris the carrier of information, but it doesn't move woth the information, it just passes the signals on. Line a line of people passing along buckets. > > > (snip) then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring in the same > > > direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly likely. > > > > The problem is one of coordination, not transportation. That is the > > crux of teleportation of multi-particle objects. That is what makes it > > unlikely. And AFAIK there is no way to get round that one. [weird stuff snipped] > I know it all sounds like hocus pocus but it's one of the greatest > scientific findings of the decade in my opinion. It was written up in > Scientific American about 2 years ago and and can be read about here: > > http://p23.lanl.gov/Quantum/kwiat/ifm-folder/ifmtext.html Looks like an candidate for my "links to do" file. > > Standard occult theory. The physical world and all that goes on in it > > is the result of conciousness making and modifying it. Actually the > > base of pantheism of the type Bart believes in. > > But so many things indicate that this is the case. The most common is > the single partical dual slit experiment. Where a single photon will > interfere with itself or not influenced solely by whether or not we try > to determine which slit is is traveling through. If that isn't an > excellent demonstration of our awareness's affect on physical reality, > then I don't know what is. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle clearly > demonstrates that our awareness influences everything. Yes. > > > Just a thought. (he he) > > > > And not an particularly new one :-) > > Of course not, Descartes was thinking such thoughts hundreds of years > ago. Not to forget hindu and buddhist philosophers and adepts millennia ago. -- home: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35db3b8a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DC7D82.902C56D0@algonet.se> <35dc8b0a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DDC20F.9D84D554@algonet.se> <35ddd161.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35DF12EE.76A162C6@algonet.se> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:44:56 +0200 Lines: 95 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p39.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p39.telia.com Message-ID: <35df20e3.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p39.telia.com Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote in message <35DF12EE.76A162C6@algonet.se>... > > What about protecting the security of the State? > In a maybe overprotecting way.... >Anyway, often things are not caused by a single thing, but instead of >several different causes working in concert. Genes seem to work this >way, for example. > I'll keep my eyes and ears open for other possible explanations... But there are not many to choose from... :) >> Yeah, and I hate being *dead wrong*... Hope that day will never >> come... > >Unfortunately - and Iīm really trying to help you here, Lars - unless >you develop at least some healthy skepticism, you are quite likely to be >dead wrong at least at some time. You need not only to be a bit wary of >othersī claims and intents, but also of your own beliefs. If someone has done an interesting experiment, then I'm interested in duplicating that experiment. I always approach things with an interested and open mind. Not being able to believe will not bring me anywhere. If the experiment isn't to difficult to duplicate, and it rarely is, since normal people have been able to pull it together. Anyway, I just want to find my own answers instead of waiting for other to find them. Don't have much better things to do.... > >Sometimes ask yourself: This pet theory of mine, does it really, as seen >objectively, explain the phenomenon well? Could there be some other >explanation? Perhaps only a smaller revision is needed? Or maybe none at >all. -Yes -Not that I can think of right now -Maybe > >If you donīt believe anything at 100%, then you by simple logic simply >cannot be 100% wrong. ;-) > I don't believe something 100% before I experience it myself.... :) > >So, scientists construct a mathematical model, which hopefully mimics >the natural process with at least *some* accuracy, and which can be used >to make predictions, which can be tested. Even if the theory is >successful, some anomalies may remain. If they are persistent enough, >the anomalies may force a whole reevaluation of the theory. Perhaps the >earlier theory is only a special case of a wider, more general one. And >so on. > I need to make a detailed solid mathematical model, with maybe some help form todays best theory on relativity: Autodynamics May take some time... but it will be interesting... I'll put it on my project list.... >This is of course what has happened to Newtonīs laws of motion. They >have been superseeded by, or rather included as a special case in, >Einsteinīs Special theory of Relativity. Which itself is only a part of >the General theory of Relativity. Which itself may only be a special >case of some, as yet unknown, even wider and more complicated theory. Like AutoDyamics? Well, not much of Einstein Theories are kept in AD. Mainly just E = mc^2 You should join the chats one day. With a little discussion did we come up with a simple, but great perl script that solves most the problems there have been with earlier chats... > >It is really fun. (Not quite as much as being OOB, but still. ;-) Hmm, >how about a glacier tour while OOB, now *that* would be something. > Only bad weather has prevented me from going on those glaciers... There have been a few occasions where I had the possibility.... Maybe one day, or at least OOB.... :) Cheers, Lars ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 21:40:42 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 140 Message-ID: <35DF1EBA.16086093@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du56-25.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!masternews.telia.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Ken Czepelka wrote: > > It may not, but then again it may. I think teleportation can be > considered a third possible explaination to the two you give above if > you consider in depth the mechanisms behind the first two. > > First take FTL information exchange. Since FTL implies communication > using a different mechanism than electromagnetic communication through > space one has to ask what form it could take. One possibility is > communication through the use of the theorized Tachyon particals. But > the theory states that Tachyons require larger amounts of energy as > they slow down to the speed of light and therefore are most at home > going much much faster, perhaps even attaining infinite speed at zero > energy levels. If this is true, then zero energy Tachyons teleport by > definition. True, it's not the original Aspect particals that > teleported, but it shows the possibility that at least something can > teleport over large distances. Yes, but doesnīt this stretch the definition of teleportation a little too far? Usually it implies the instantaneous movement of *normal* matter. Tachyons, if at zero energy, would always teleport! Poor tachyons! What a sad fate. BTW, some hold that tachyons have *negative* energy and mass. > The second mechanism you offer is some kind of "connectedness" between > the particals. This one is very interesting to me because you then > have to consider what it is that does the connecting. If there is > anything at all connecting two particals it would likely be a > communication link which would put it under the first explaination. > If it were some kind of etheric material "shaft" that connected the > particles then the link wouldn't be instantaneous as implied by the > experiment since conveying torque through a shaft is still a cause an > effect type of action and has inherent delay. There are other possibilities; one has to do with warped spacetime. At extremely small scales (Planck length, 10E-35 m) the very structure of spacetime itself is thought not to be "smooth", but "foam-like", with innumerable wormholes. One school of thought holds that there are enough wormholes that every point in the Universe is connected to every other. This could be the connection. > But if I read you right I suspect that you weren't talking about a > link at all in this regard but rather a link void of space between the > two particals. This to me seems highly plausable. It implies that > the two particals are far apart in our reality but on some other level > they occupy the same space and perhaps in some respects are even one > in the same. The two particals spin together because they are in > essence the same partical. This is similar to standing between two > mirrors where all images turn together when the subject turns, but > differ in that the particals aren't just reflections, but very much a > dual occurance of the same partical. Very very interesting idea, > don't you think? Yes I do. Thru this kind of connectedness everything might indeed be an aspect of The Whole. And isnīt this also what quantum theory tells us? Since there really are no way of telling where a particle is, or how large it is, it can be thought to include other particles as well. There is no such thing as an isolated object or event in nature. This is just an abstraction used in scientific models for making the equations solvable. ;-) > Now I have offered teleportation (other than tachyon teleportation) as > a third explaination. It is essentially the same idea as offered in > the last paragraph but without the simultaneous occurance of the two > particals. In other words there is only one partical in two locations > in our reality, and on an etheric level it is always just in one place > at all times. So on the etheric level there is no teleportation or > even any spacial movement at all, but the physical level the location > of the two particals changes with at an infinitely rapid rate. > Teleportation back and forth between two locations at an infinite rate > of oscillation. The net effect would be the appearance of two > particals, but in reality only one teleporting back and forth. Interesting idea. [snip] > Was this negative entropy at the beginning paid for by positive > entropy on the astral plane? Is that what you are saying? Well, no. Iīm not sure the 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to non-physical planes of existence. ;-) I think some scientists say that since the Big Bang wasnīt only the start of matter and energy, space and time, but also the natural laws in themselves - the Universe just came into existence with a lot of negative entropy to begin with. Others speculate about multiple Universes spawned by quantum fluctuations from some Meta-Universe, having random energy and entropy. Only those with a lot of energy and negative entropy develop stars and planets, and therefore thinking beings that speculate about their origin. This is called the "Anthropic principle". > And if so then the astral plane must have suffered quite a shock of > disarray. "Heaven destroyed by the big bang, news at 10" :) Hilarious!!! :-) But if so, the increase of entropy in the physical Universe is mirrored by an equal decrease of entropy in the Astral. Terrible thought; a demonstration demand: "Rebuild Heaven - Destroy the Earth!" :-) > But getting back to teleportation.... > > But synchornized quantum events en masse can be considered local (we > are only talking about teleporting a body here, not the whole > universe). Since the Universe is a self-contained spacetime, and teleportation means moving *in* spacetime, the Universe cannot teleport, by definition. ;-) > And therefore can lose entropy at the expense of something else. > Something like thought for example. Perhaps the definition of thought > or more accurately "intent" is "an increase of entropy on an astral > level causeing a decrease in entropy on a physical level producing > action in life forms or in extreme cases quantum leaps of particals en > masse". Perhaps the big bang (negative entropy) was caused by one big > thought (positive entropy) on a non physical level. Hmmmmm.... Hmmmmmmmmm... [snip] > Thanks for replying Gunnar. I always enjoy reading your posts. > > Ken Thanks . I try to post only when I feel I have something valuable to say. Nice talking (well) to you Ken, and... See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: dromero@roanoke.infi.net (Douglas J. Romero) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 23 Aug 1998 09:01:39 GMT Organization: InfiNet Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6rolpj$u5c$1@nw003t.infi.net> References: <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm7-226.roanoke.infi.net X-Newsreader: Ink Spot 1.16 for Newton Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!208.131.160.208!news.infi.net!not-for-mail In message <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com>, Ken Czepelka wrote: > Was this negative entropy at the beginning paid for by positive entropy > on the astral plane? Is that what you are saying? And if so then the > astral plane must have suffered quite a shock of disarray. "Heaven > destroyed by the big bang, news at 10" :) > Well, not necessarily. By all accounts the astral plane shows all the characteristics of a singularity. Therefore our laws of physics would nH apply and use of energy would probably be completely different. And regarding tachyons... I believe their descriptions calls for them using imaginary energy, not negative one. I must confess I'm finding this threads one of the best ever. Many thanks to all of you who are contributing. Douglas J. Romero, MD Unirersity of Virginia Roanoke-Salem Psychiatry Program email: dromero@roanoke.infi.net ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 14:24:58 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 15 Message-ID: <35E07A9A.B2732FE7@soundsculpture.com> References: <1998081801520100.VAA24204@ladder03.news.aol.com> <35D9F5F8.F7544F8C@spiritone.com> <35DCCFD5.CCD22A40@soundsculpture.com> <35dd8dc8.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-189.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > > Interesting.... > > Was the frequency around 7.8 Hz? > (The beat frequency?) I wouldn't know what BFO they used. I suspect that they probably tried several frequencies in a laboratory environment to study the effects and came across one that resonated space-time. But what that frequency would be is anyone's guess. Could be a low one as you suggest or could be much higher, perhaps in the 100khz range. Ken ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:14:31 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 68 Message-ID: <35E08637.510329EC@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35de3c19.17129459@news.ke9nr.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-189.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news.freedom2surf.net!btnet-peer!btnet!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wli.net!204.71.60.1!newsfeed.frii.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Ken S. wrote: > > Hi Neil and Ken - Hey Ken, > > On 22 Aug 1998 00:09:07 +0200, Neil Franklin > wrote: > > >> then large numbers of quantum leaps occuring in the same > >> direction, the same distance, and the same time are fairly likely. > > > >The problem is one of coordination, not transportation. That is the > >crux of teleportation of multi-particle objects. That is what makes it > >unlikely. And AFAIK there is no way to get round that one. > > But is quantum leaps the only way for something to get from one place > to another without traveling through the intervening space? Not > necessarily. That one method of teleportation may be extremely > unlikely, but that's not to say that there aren't other possibilities. I can think of a few others. A deep warp in space-time can bring two distant locations in the known universe very close together, perhaps even touching. This is similar to talking a bookmark, the ends of which represent locations in the universe that are separated by a vast distance. Then fold the bookmark in half so the endpoints touch. This is what happens in extreme warps, those caused by black holes, wormholes, and other spacial anomalies. A wormhole can be thought of as a form of teleportation since a vast distance can be traveled in a seemingly FTL way. The interesting thing about wormholes is that you can move from one point in space to another without having to cross into an etheric realm. You can stay in this reality at all times. This differs from quantum leaps where a partical literally disappears out of this existance (enters an astral realm) and reappears in this realm in a different location. It doesn't necessarily move while in the astral plane but the action of going to the astral plane and returning causes it to reappear in this reality in a different location. Of course quantum leaps might be nothing more than miniature worm holes. I don't think anyone has really determined it to be one or the other. In fact the two ideas might be more closely related than one might suspect. If you want to leave FTL out of this and do something a little more Star Trek like, then there are even more possibilites. Conversion to probability waves, transmission of the waves and then conversion back to particles might be a possibility. Scan and reconstruction might be another. > > "Beam me up, Scotty." > "Very funny, now beam up my clothes!!!" Hahahaha, hadn't heard that one before. Very good! > > The Other Ken > http://www.ke9nr.org/ Ken "Everything should be as simple as possible but not one bit simpler." -Albert Einstein ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 15:44:33 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 146 Message-ID: <35E08D41.394C525D@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1EBA.16086093@algonet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-189.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > Ken Czepelka wrote: > > > > If this is true, then zero energy Tachyons teleport by > > definition. True, it's not the original Aspect particals that > > teleported, but it shows the possibility that at least something can > > teleport over large distances. > > Yes, but doesnīt this stretch the definition of teleportation a little > too far? Usually it implies the instantaneous movement of *normal* > matter. I'll go along with that. Let me revise. Perhaps tachyons are carriers of information or more specifically a converted state of matter. An electron disappears (begins a quantum leap) gets converted into a tacyon where it instantaneously travels to a new position, then converts back to an electron in a new location (ends quantum leap). This would be true teleportation. Tachyons, if at zero energy, would always teleport! Poor > tachyons! What a sad fate. BTW, some hold that tachyons have *negative* > energy and mass. If they have negative energy, this still doesn't contridict that they have an infinite amount of it when going the speed of light. At infinite speed they still have zero energy. Yes, poor tachyons. Like being in rush hour traffic all your life. > > > The second mechanism you offer is some kind of "connectedness" between > > the particals. This one is very interesting to me because you then > > have to consider what it is that does the connecting. If there is > > anything at all connecting two particals it would likely be a > > communication link which would put it under the first explaination. > > If it were some kind of etheric material "shaft" that connected the > > particles then the link wouldn't be instantaneous as implied by the > > experiment since conveying torque through a shaft is still a cause an > > effect type of action and has inherent delay. > > There are other possibilities; one has to do with warped spacetime. At > extremely small scales (Planck length, 10E-35 m) the very structure of > spacetime itself is thought not to be "smooth", but "foam-like", with > innumerable wormholes. One school of thought holds that there are enough > wormholes that every point in the Universe is connected to every other. > This could be the connection. Ah very good. miniature wormholes all connected to form another miniature wormhole that connects vast distances of space. Perhaps all of space. A singularity. This seems to make the idea of two particals in our reality as being in one location more realistic. The difference being that a separate reality is not needed. Since wormholes need only one reality in which to operate. > > > But if I read you right I suspect that you weren't talking about a > > link at all in this regard but rather a link void of space between the > > two particals. This to me seems highly plausable. It implies that > > the two particals are far apart in our reality but on some other level > > they occupy the same space and perhaps in some respects are even one > > in the same. The two particals spin together because they are in > > essence the same partical. This is similar to standing between two > > mirrors where all images turn together when the subject turns, but > > differ in that the particals aren't just reflections, but very much a > > dual occurance of the same partical. Very very interesting idea, > > don't you think? > > Yes I do. Thru this kind of connectedness everything might indeed be an > aspect of The Whole. And isnīt this also what quantum theory tells us? > Since there really are no way of telling where a particle is, or how > large it is, it can be thought to include other particles as well. > > There is no such thing as an isolated object or event in nature. This is > just an abstraction used in scientific models for making the equations > solvable. ;-) So the question remains are two particals in space a single partical on an astral level, or are they simply connected by a zero distance wormhole operating solely on this reality. Or is there something else entirely going on? > > Was this negative entropy at the beginning paid for by positive > > entropy on the astral plane? Is that what you are saying? > > Well, no. Iīm not sure the 2nd law of thermodynamics applies to > non-physical planes of existence. ;-) Are you sure entropy and thermodynamics are related? I was more under the impression that entropy was a measure of organization not of thermal energy. If you toss a deck of cards into the air and they land on the table as a house of cards, this would be a very low entropy situation and would need to be thought of in terms of non-physical planes of existence since the probability of something like this happening without an influence would be very low. > > I think some scientists say that since the Big Bang wasnīt only the > start of matter and energy, space and time, but also the natural laws in > themselves - the Universe just came into existence with a lot of > negative entropy to begin with. > > Others speculate about multiple Universes spawned by quantum > fluctuations from some Meta-Universe, having random energy and entropy. > Only those with a lot of energy and negative entropy develop stars and > planets, and therefore thinking beings that speculate about their > origin. This is called the "Anthropic principle". Interesting ideas. > > > And if so then the astral plane must have suffered quite a shock of > > disarray. "Heaven destroyed by the big bang, news at 10" :) > > Hilarious!!! :-) But if so, the increase of entropy in the physical > Universe is mirrored by an equal decrease of entropy in the Astral. > > Terrible thought; a demonstration demand: > > "Rebuild Heaven - Destroy the Earth!" :-) Hahaha, good one. Ken "Everything should be as simple as possible but not one bit simpler." -Albert Einstein ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 19:35:27 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 55 Message-ID: <35E1A45F.9EA98199@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1EBA.16086093@algonet.se> <35E08D41.394C525D@soundsculpture.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du188-93.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Ken Czepelka wrote: [snip] > Ah very good. miniature wormholes all connected to form another > miniature wormhole that connects vast distances of space. Perhaps all > of space. A singularity. This seems to make the idea of two > particals in our reality as being in one location more realistic. The > difference being that a separate reality is not needed. Since > wormholes need only one reality in which to operate. Exactly. > So the question remains are two particals in space a single partical > on an astral level, or are they simply connected by a zero distance > wormhole operating solely on this reality. Or both? > Or is there something else entirely going on? Quite possible too. - "The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine, it is weirder than we *can* imagine." > Are you sure entropy and thermodynamics are related? Oh yes. The 2nd law of thermodynamics explicitly says that in closed systems entropy must always increase. > I was more under the impression that entropy was a measure of > organization not of thermal energy. It is. (Or rather a measure of disorganization.) The reason why it is found in thermodynamics is that it the principle was discovered when late 18th and early 19th century scientists studied the workings of thermo-machines (more specifically the steam engine). > If you toss a deck of cards into the air and they land on the > table as a house of cards, this would be a very low entropy situation > and would need to be thought of in terms of non-physical planes of > existence since the probability of something like this happening > without an influence would be very low. Indeed. BTW, do you know the reason why disorder and entropy must always increase? [snip] > Ken See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 20:48:29 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 51 Message-ID: <35E225FD.B5444241@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1F39.7BC28F25@soundsculpture.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-184.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > > Actually not. The information (signal) moves with ca 2/3 light speed > (in copper), but the actual electrons making up the inpulse only move > very slowly. Think of an ocean wave overtaking an swimmer who is > actually moving faster then the water molecules. I don't agree. A better analogy is a line of pool balls evenly spaced stretching from one pocket to another across the table. When you strike the first ball in line it sucessively causes each ball down the line to nudge the next. The last ball in line falls in the pocket when it recieves the signal producted by hitting the first ball. The (sustained) rate at which the signal gets from one side of the table to the other cannot be faster than the average speed of the balls, even if the balls are all touching each other. It is for this very reason that (conventionally speaking) information cannot travel faster than light. The information can only travel as fast as the particles or fields of the carrier. > We once did this calculation when I was studying electrical engineer: >1 A current is 6.24*10^18 electrons/second. For a phone call (a few >100 mV on a few 100 ohm = ca 1 mA) and my 14400 modem (2400 Hz >signalling) that is ca 3*10^12 electrons exiting/reentering the line >1 m of phone line (0.15 mm^2) is ca 150*7 mg = ca 1g of copper. That >has about 10^25 free (conduction-usable) electrons.so we need to shift >about 1/3*10^12 of our electrons of of the cable, so move all >electrons 1/3*10^12 of our 1 m. That is 1/3 picometer = 300 angstroem, >so less then the atom distance. >That still fits with my definition of nudging. Your calculations are correct but you are making an incorrect assumption. You are assuming that the speed of electron flow is determined by the capacity of the wire. The larger the cross section, the more free electrons, and hence the smaller the distance the electrons have to travel in the time alloted by a single half cycle of the modem frequency (the slower the speed). This assumption cannot be made. The speed of electron flow is fixed and is related to the speed at which the signal transfers throught the wire. So what varies is not the speed, but how many electrons are mobilized withing a given cross section. The lower the current, the less electrons per unit volume of copper are mobilized. So my initial remark about the electron flow moving several miles still stands. Ken "Everything should be as simple as possible but not one bit simpler." -Albert Einstein ###### From: "Steven A.Richmond Sr." Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:22:27 -0400 Organization: Richmond Industrial Engineering Laboratories Inc. (R I E L) Lines: 76 Message-ID: <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> Reply-To: richmond@richmondlabs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-1-53.ringgold.catt.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news13.ispnews.com 904054957 21448 209.42.150.53 (25 Aug 1998 14:22:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Aug 1998 14:22:37 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!europa.clark.net!209.69.36.218!news1.ispnews.com!news11.ispnews.com!not-for-mail In reply to Ken Czepellka; Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > Here's an example. Thought: the odd arrangement of electrical > > activity occuring between neurons of the brain. There's no denying > > that this is a fact. Kill electrical activity in certain parts of the > > brain and your thoughts and outlook on reality change. Use drugs to > > clog receptors and you experience altered states of reality. Yet > > there is no logical reason to beleive than random occurances of > > electrical and chemical activity in the brain cause consiousness. > > > The altered states of awareness can be totally written off as being > > nothing more than increased or decreased association between > > consiousness and the physical brain. It does indicate that how we > > think is determined by the brain, but it does not indicate that > > thought or consiousness is a product of the brain. > > My point. Seems to me than neuronic activity is a product of > > consciousness and not the other way around. Thought provokes millions > > of neurons and synapses into activity. It's a response not a cause. > > This being the case it seems thought has a great deal of influence on > > the state of reality in general including quantum leaps. > > I think you are basically correct, with one exception (or rather > omission): I think neuronic activity can *influence* thought, but not > *cause* it. As follows: > > Motoric activity: As you said; thoughts cause neuronic activity, likely > by influencing quantum events thru nano-psychokinesis. Result: the arm > moves (or whatever). > > Sensoric activity: The eye absorbs a particular pattern of photons, > which gives rise to some other pattern of neuronic activity. The > consciousness senses this in some way (nano-clairvoyance?), and you see > the cat (or whatever). > > I think the brain is basically an "interface" between the physical body > and the non-physical consciousness; a biochemical structure that is > exceedingly sensitive to the very elusive powers of nano-PK and nano-CV. Gunnar, I've just been browsing through this group, and couldn't help being impressed by your posts (really). That doesn't mean that I am 100% in agreement with *all* your opinions, however, you seem quite thoughtful and intelligent by my estimation. Although it has nothing, well..., little to do with OBE (which also interests me), I have a question I'd like to put to you which is somewhat along the lines af the above quoted excerpt. I've asked this same question to several doctors, professors, and scientists, and have yet to receive a satisfactory answer. All textbooks I've read, state that all muscular movement and coordination is orchestrated by the brain, that there is no other "memory" in the body. If this is truly so, I've often wondered how a chicken after having it's head (brain) completely severed from it's body, can perform a difficult and continuous task, like running or even flying for as long as thirty seconds. Most authorities when asked, will say the nerves to all muscles are connected to the brain, and these are simply continuing to exercise the last command received. I would think a child could figure out that much. However there is much more happening in the way of muscle and nerve sensor coordination, than can be explained that simply. Obviously the elements involved must be interconnected, and interactive, -- before reaching the brain, and additionally there must be some method of *storing* the (rather complex) command sequence. Or, perhaps there is another explanation... If you care to speculate, -- what is your opinion? -- -=< Steven A. Richmond Sr.- RIEL inc. >=- ------=< richmond@richmondlabs.com >=------ --=< http://www.richmondlabs.com >=-- ###### From: Ken S. Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 25 Aug 1998 08:06:45 PDT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 23 Message-ID: <35e2d238.2890098@news.ke9nr.org> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts004d13.las-nv.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master Hi Steven - On Tue, 25 Aug 1998 10:22:27 -0400, "Steven A.Richmond Sr." wrote: > All textbooks I've read, state that all muscular movement and >coordination is orchestrated by the brain, that there is no other "memory" >in the body. If this is truly so, I've often wondered how a chicken after >having it's head (brain) completely severed from it's body, can perform a >difficult and continuous task, like running or even flying for as long as >thirty seconds. PMFJI ... I'm surprised that all of the textbooks say that it all happens in the brain. It has been known for years that a lot of reflex activity takes place in the spinal cord, so that by the time the brain even gets the message that something happened, the reflex action has already been initiated. I'm not a chickenologist, but I would guess that spinal cord activity is the cause for "chicken with its head cut off" behaviour. The Other Ken http://www.ke9nr.org/ ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 19:22:08 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 81 Message-ID: <35E2F2C0.5F29AA0E@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du209-93.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Steven A.Richmond Sr. wrote: > > Gunnar, I've just been browsing through this group, and couldn't > help being impressed by your posts (really). Why, thank you Steven! > That doesn't mean that I am 100% in agreement with *all* your > opinions, That is as it should be. New knowledge arises from controversy, only stagnation from perfect agreement. > however, you seem quite thoughtful and intelligent by my estimation. Thou art indeed very perceptive. ;-) > Although it has nothing, well..., little to do with OBE (which > also interests me), I have a question I'd like to put to you which is > somewhat along the lines af the above quoted excerpt. I've asked this > same question to several doctors, professors, and scientists, and have > yet to receive a satisfactory answer. > > All textbooks I've read, state that all muscular movement and > coordination is orchestrated by the brain, that there is no other > "memory" in the body. Actually, IMHO there is probably very little "memory" in the physical body at all, (excepting the purely genetic one in the genes). That is, AFAIK noone has been able to place (long-term) memory anywhere in the brain so far. It seems to reside nowhere (or everywhere). Since I know from personal experience that I have access to all my normal memory during OBEs, I conclude that it doesnīt reside in the physical body at all. To be sure, one could postulate that it still somehow does, and that I only *access* it thru some connection (e.g. the silver cord - which I BTW never have seen so far), but I discount that possibility with Occamīs Razor. > If this is truly so, I've often wondered how a chicken after having > it's head (brain) completely severed from it's body, can perform a > difficult and continuous task, like running or even flying for as long > as thirty seconds. Iīve never seen this (being a city guy). ;-) > Most authorities when asked, will say the nerves to all muscles > are connected to the brain, and these are simply continuing to > exercise the last command received. I would think a child could > figure out that much. However there is much more happening in the way > of muscle and nerve sensor coordination, than can be explained that > simply. Obviously the elements involved must be interconnected, and > interactive, -- before reaching the brain, and additionally there > must be some method of *storing* the (rather complex) command > sequence. > > Or, perhaps there is another explanation... If you care to > speculate, -- what is your opinion? Well Steven, I really must confess to not being very learned in this area, but the explanation Ken S. posits seems quite plausible to me. I donīt know what other explanation there could possibly be: Some other as yet undiscovered nerve-complex capable of complex motions and some information storage. or Chicken souls (if there be any) protesting their demise by animating their ex-bodies for as long as they can. (No, now Iīm being silly. ;-) > -=< Steven A. Richmond Sr.- RIEL inc. >=- Thanks for your input Steven, and... See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: "Suki" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 25 Aug 1998 20:07:09 GMT Organization: db Technology News Services Lines: 16 Message-ID: <01bdd063$adea6000$97b2d1d1@default> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> <35e2d238.2890098@news.ke9nr.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.209.178.151 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.nntp.acc.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!news.dbtech.net!not-for-mail I read somewhere that a chicken's brain is actually mostly in its neck, though I'm not sure of this... I do know that there was a farmer who kept a beheaded chicken alive for weeks by stuffing corn down its throat. Sorry, totally off-topic. (I think I'll put "I'm not stupid; I just have a command of thoroughly useless knowledge." at the end of my messages.) -Suki > PMFJI ... I'm surprised that all of the textbooks say that it all > happens in the brain. It has been known for years that a lot of > reflex activity takes place in the spinal cord, so that by the time > the brain even gets the message that something happened, the reflex > action has already been initiated. > > I'm not a chickenologist, but I would guess that spinal cord activity > is the cause for "chicken with its head cut off" behaviour. ###### From: mattbee Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 21:00:33 +0100 Organization: UKC Lines: 22 Message-ID: <35E317E1.4E6A@FAKEBITukc.ac.uk> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> <35e2d238.2890098@news.ke9nr.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: pcbios104.ukc.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02 (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!server2.netnews.ja.net!ukc!news > > All textbooks I've read, state that all muscular movement and > >coordination is orchestrated by the brain, that there is no other "memory" > >in the body. If this is truly so, I've often wondered how a chicken after > >having it's head (brain) completely severed from it's body, can perform a > >difficult and continuous task, like running or even flying for as long as > >thirty seconds. > PMFJI ... I'm surprised that all of the textbooks say that it all > happens in the brain. It has been known for years that a lot of > reflex activity takes place in the spinal cord, so that by the time > the brain even gets the message that something happened, the reflex > action has already been initiated. The spinal cord can definitely do coordinated movements. When you're walking down the street lost in thought, it's actually your spinal cord doing the walking. Decapitation creates the equivalent of an electrical surge in the spinal cord, which may result in it doing all its party tricks at once, like it seems to in chickens. Things like walking or flapping are basically repetitive movements requiring occasional modulation, something simple neural circuits are ideal for. mattbee ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 25 Aug 1998 22:37:29 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 116 Message-ID: References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1F39.7BC28F25@soundsculpture.com> <35E225FD.B5444241@soundsculpture.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Ken Czepelka writes: > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > > Actually not. The information (signal) moves with ca 2/3 light speed > > (in copper), but the actual electrons making up the inpulse only move > > very slowly. Think of an ocean wave overtaking an swimmer who is > > actually moving faster then the water molecules. > > I don't agree. A better analogy is a line of pool balls evenly spaced > stretching from one pocket to another across the table. When you strike > the first ball in line it sucessively causes each ball down the line to > nudge the next. The last ball in line falls in the pocket when it > recieves the signal producted by hitting the first ball. Now it is up to me to disagree. Because the analogy has an serious flaw: In you row of pool balls the impulse travelling via the balls is only passed from one to the next when they collide. (I am reading your "evenly spaced" to mean with distance in between, not a continuous line). But in the electrical world the impulse of an electron begins transfering to the next one as soon as the first one starts moving (and still hasn't recieved the full impulse from its predecessor). This is because the distances of electrons and protons are an dynamic equilibrium of attraction (e-p) and repulsion (e-e, p-p) and any external force moving one changes the distances and so the forces. Impulse is immediately passed on. The nearest mechanical analogy that comes to mind is an mechanical impulse (longitudinal wave) in elastic material. Here also all atoms are dynamicaly linked and the impulse travels a lot faster (supersonic) than the actual material (slight movement or returns to its place). Back to balls you may think of then line-of-balls-on-strings things you see in doctors or managers offices. Let the first ball strike the line and the last one bounces away. The impulse travels through steel at 3-5 (IIRC) times sound speed. But the balls all only move a fraction. Impulses are tricky things. > The > (sustained) rate at which the signal gets from one side of the table to > the other cannot be faster than the average speed of the balls, even if > the balls are all touching each other. With electric signals in copper at 2/3 light speed that would mean electrons doing at least 2/3 light speed. Clearly in relativistic effect territory. Latest at the first bend in the cable the radial forces would move the cables. That doesn't happen. So you must be wrong on this. And then having the electrons accelerate 2 times 2400 times per second to 2/3 c and back down to 0 would produce some serious forces which would shred the phone wire to bits. > >electrons 1/3*10^12 of our 1 m. That is 1/3 picometer = 300 angstroem, > >so less then the atom distance. > > >That still fits with my definition of nudging. > > Your calculations are correct but you are making an incorrect > assumption. You are assuming that the speed of electron flow is > determined by the capacity of the wire. The larger the cross section, > the more free electrons, and hence the smaller the distance the > electrons have to travel in the time alloted by a single half cycle of > the modem frequency (the slower the speed). Yes. There is less current density (A/m^2), so less speed. Higher speed is what makes energy loss (interacting more often with protons and other electrons, producing lateral vibrations (heat) = loss), which is why high currents require larger wires, to keep the max speed low enough. > This assumption cannot be > made. The speed of electron flow is fixed and is related to the speed > at which the signal transfers throught the wire. As shown above it is not. Actually if you looked at electrons attached to atoms being "knocked out" of orbit I would may agree with you (on second thought no, acceleration need force). But one of the feartures of electric conductors such as copper is exactly that they have free (i.e. not bound to an atom) electrons floating around. At least that is what the physics teacher at the electrical engineering shool I went to claimed. > So what varies is not > the speed, but how many electrons are mobilized withing a given cross > section. The lower the current, the less electrons per unit volume of > copper are mobilized. I don't think so. Why would some stay at rest while others are moving by? Rather they would also be displaced (note that this only applies to free/valence electrons, the others allways stay put). > So my initial remark about the electron flow > moving several miles still stands. Or not. Hmmm. What a case of topic drift. Solid body and electro physics in an parapsychology group. Just hope we are not boring all the others. -- Neil Franklin, Electrical Engineer, Programmer, System Admin home: neil@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~neil/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** ###### From: "Steven A.Richmond Sr." Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 00:09:33 -0400 Organization: Richmond Industrial Engineering Laboratories Inc. (R I E L) Lines: 51 Message-ID: <35E38A7D.D364FC49@richmondlabs.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> <35E2F2C0.5F29AA0E@algonet.se> Reply-To: richmond@richmondlabs.com NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-1-65.ringgold.catt.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news13.ispnews.com 904104611 14606 209.42.150.65 (26 Aug 1998 04:10:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 1998 04:10:11 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!news1.ispnews.com!news11.ispnews.com!not-for-mail Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > If this is truly so, I've often wondered how a chicken after having > > it's head (brain) completely severed from it's body, can perform a > > difficult and continuous task, like running or even flying for as long > > as thirty seconds. > > Iīve never seen this (being a city guy). ;-) Very interesting sight... It's been over thirty years since I've been a witness to the bloody display, but you'd never forget it if you'd ever seen it. They will sometimes fly up in a circular pattern to a height of 40 feet or more, then suddenly "run out of gas", and fall like a rock. Other times they will just run around on the ground, banging into whatever is in their way. > > Chicken souls (if there be any) protesting their demise by animating > > their ex-bodies for as long as they can. (No, now Iīm being silly. ;-) Now at least *there's* an idea I hadn't heard before! Thanks Gunnar, and thanks to the other respondents as well. On a different topic, albeit one better suited to this group; I'd appreciate a little input from the pros in the "house" as to what type of preparation and atmosphere they feel to be most conducive to OBE, or, "transcendental meditation" as I have always called it. I have been successful in actually "separating" at least three times, and one of these "trips" lasted for around 10 to 15 minutes. However these experiences took place over 10 years ago, and although I have tried several times since then, I just can't quite seem to "get over the hump" anymore (if you know what I mean). Also.., if I'm going to give the thing another serious try, I really need to discover a better control technique. The one thing I remember best about the longest (lasting) "journey", was a *terrifying* loss of control over what I was experiencing. -- -=< Steven A. Richmond Sr.- RIEL inc. >=- ------=< richmond@richmondlabs.com >=------ --=< http://www.richmondlabs.com >=-- ###### From: Ken Czepelka Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:16:09 -0600 Organization: Sound Sculpture Lines: 8 Message-ID: <35E426B9.C2B1566B@soundsculpture.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1EBA.16086093@algonet.se> <35E08D41.394C525D@soundsculpture.com> <35E1A45F.9EA98199@algonet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: pm1-ppp136-189.privatei.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.71.60.1!newsfeed.frii.net!beetle.privatei.com!not-for-mail Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > Indeed. BTW, do you know the reason why disorder and entropy must always > increase? No I don't. Do you? Ken ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:43:03 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 54 Message-ID: <35E44927.E23A574A@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35DF0277.D6796C20@soundsculpture.com> <35DF1EBA.16086093@algonet.se> <35E08D41.394C525D@soundsculpture.com> <35E1A45F.9EA98199@algonet.se> <35E426B9.C2B1566B@soundsculpture.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du150-91.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-stkh.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Ken Czepelka wrote: > > Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: > > > > Indeed. BTW, do you know the reason why disorder and entropy must > > always increase? > > No I don't. Do you? > > Ken Well Ken, I donīt really *know* it; but this is what I have read: First (and now Iīm contradicting myself ;-) Entropy really doesnīt always *have to* increase. It is "only" overwhelmingly likely to do so. The reason for this lies in statistics. It is basically this: All possible configurations of particles and energy quanta can (in principle) be divided into ordered and disordered states. The border is of course arbitrary, but letīs say we draw it where you no longer see any structure of any kind. Now, even if you are very liberal with your definition of "structure", the number of possible states that finds their way to the "disordered" box is incredibly larger than the number of "ordered" ones. So, whenever chance or chaotic events happen (and they happen a lot), they are tremendously more likely than not to reduce the amount of order and structure than to increase it. Thus, it *is* possible - in principle - for two glasses of lukewarm water to spontaneously turn into one hot and one cold. It is only so unlikely that it probably never will occur in the Universeīs lifetime. But, in the case of eternity, even entropy is defeated by this means. In an Universe with infinite time, matter and energy *must*, by chance alone, structure itself into a new, pristine Universe with abundant negative entropy, not only once but an infinite number of times! This of course applies only to truly infinite time, in the mathematical sense. Perhaps the Universe is much older than the Big Bang, and this is just one of an infinite number of short bright flashes of activity in an otherwise dark, cold and utterly empty eternity... Provokes thought, Iīd say. Anyway, See you out there... /Gunnar ###### From: Gunnar Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:43:13 +0200 Organization: Algonet/Tninet Lines: 74 Message-ID: <35E44931.3B28B6BA@algonet.se> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> <35E2F2C0.5F29AA0E@algonet.se> <35E38A7D.D364FC49@richmondlabs.com> Reply-To: dervak@algonet.se NNTP-Posting-Host: du150-91.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!ibm.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!howland.erols.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Steven A.Richmond Sr. wrote: [snip] > On a different topic, albeit one better suited to this group; I'd > appreciate a little input from the pros in the "house" as to what type > of preparation and atmosphere they feel to be most conducive to OBE, > or, "transcendental meditation" as I have always called it. I have > been successful in actually "separating" at least three times, and one > of these "trips" lasted for around 10 to 15 minutes. However these > experiences took place over 10 years ago, and although I have tried > several times since then, I just can't quite seem to "get over the > hump" anymore (if you know what I mean). What is your problem more exactly? In what way did you use to have them? Thru lucid dreams, meditation, constant awareness while body falls asleep? Is it that you canīt get into the "state" conductive to OBEs? Do you get the vibrations (or have you ever? not all get, or perceive, them.)? Is it that you are "stuck"? Since I only know general things I can only give the following general advice: Perhaps you are trying too hard. Before I managed to go OOB I spent about half a year practicing several different meditation and/or visualization techniques for about an hour almost every night. The result: None whatsoever (well, I managed to get into some states that was fairly interested in their own right, but no OBE). So I gradually gave it up. Not that I one day up and decided to stop, but I did them with longer and longer intervals. Then, three or four months after I quit it suddenly happened to me. Hadnīt even thought about it that day before. So, while still maintaining a strong desire to go OBE, perhaps you should just "take it easy" for a while and see what happens (or donīt). > Also.., if I'm going to give the thing another serious try, I > really need to discover a better control technique. The one thing I > remember best about the longest (lasting) "journey", was a > *terrifying* loss of control over what I was experiencing. Too little control - Iīm all too familiar with that :-( Also here I need a little more details to say anything specific. Things I have too little control over while OOB, in order of importance: 1. Duration of OBE. I *always* return (involuntarily) to my physical body too soon. 2. My own actions. Controlling myself and keeping all kinds of stray thoughts and impulses (especially erotic ones) from interfering with my intent is a real toughie! Emotions and desires of any kind are much more powerful in the Astral. 3. Location. Besides the "para-room" and its immediate surroundings there seems to be no pattern in where I find myself when OOB. "Willing" myself to various places has so far not worked at all, and flying there has failed due to navigation problems and point #1. 4. Movement. Sometimes I cannot fly very high and/or fast. A few times I have encountered an invisible "ceiling" up in the air. When moving thru solid objects the resistance also varies, as well as the gravity. Because you (usually) no longer are in the physical Universe, navigation problems is added. 5. Senses. Usually I have no sight at first, right after separation. I almost always get it within a minute or so. Even without sight I can "feel" my immediate surroundings with what I call *proxysense* - works at distances up to 10 or 20 m, gives you information about your orientation and velocity and distances and directions to larger objects. > -=< Steven A. Richmond Sr.- RIEL inc. >=- ###### From: Ken S. Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: 26 Aug 1998 15:46:34 PDT Organization: Concentric Internet Services Lines: 32 Message-ID: <35e58eb8.2209962@news.ke9nr.org> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <35DB109B.7416096D@algonet.se> <35DCDAEB.EA59F9D1@soundsculpture.com> <35DDC256.916B3222@algonet.se> <35E2C8A3.8C58EA9C@richmondlabs.com> <35E2F2C0.5F29AA0E@algonet.se> <35E38A7D.D364FC49@richmondlabs.com> <35E44931.3B28B6BA@algonet.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts004d37.las-nv.concentric.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!207.155.183.80.MISMATCH!global-news-master Hi Gunnar - On Wed, 26 Aug 1998 19:43:13 +0200, Gunnar Ljungstrand wrote: >So I gradually gave it up. Not that I one day up and decided to stop, >but I did them with longer and longer intervals. Then, three or four >months after I quit it suddenly happened to me. Hadnīt even thought >about it that day before. I've been working on it for about two months, which is not a long time, without having an actual OBE. Now I'm spending more working on my Inner Senses (a Seth term) and not worrying so much about OBEs specifically. I still haven't had an OBE, but the other day I had a couple of flashes of seeing the ceiling and the upper part of the walls of bedroom with my eyes closed. I was laying on my back on my bed in a trance. I know that my eyes did not open, however as best I can tell, I really did see my bedroom walls and ceiling with my eyes closed. Later in that same session I had a couple of flashes of seeing a meadow of green grass. All of these flashes were very short, probably about a second for the longest, so not much time to look, but I didn't notice anything but grass. I have no idea what I was seeing, but it was definitely more than just an image in my imagination. I consider these to be encouraging signs, but there hasn't been any more of it since then. The Other Ken http://www.ke9nr.org/ ###### From: mr-hankey@mailcity.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Fri, 04 Sep 1998 04:41:00 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 52 Message-ID: <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.50.130.104 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Sep 04 04:41:00 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.01KIT (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x4.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.50.130.104 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net>, "Luke Elson" wrote: > Is it possible? I mean teleportation of the entire physical body to another > location, either accidentally or at will. > > -- > > Thanks > > Luke 'Space' Elson Well, I wasn't about to read thru all those responses you received, but I read enough to give you another quality answer... References to the "Montauk Project" are good ones...research that one. "Ascendant Masters" are meant to read "Ascended Masters"...the person misheard this topic. It is hip in the "new age" type communities, most of which will make references to such in very juvenile and/or financially solititious type ways that are a waste of everyone's time who are seriously researching the topic. The "Ascended Masters" are a part of beliefs that subscribe to spiritual hierarchies within the universe. Nothing that I necessarily disagree with, I just don't agree with the way the topic is usually approached and handled. I was so pleased at how many folks acknowlege that physical teleportation is very obtainable, very very far from impossible...However, of course we'll always have the types that'll claim it to be impossible, (many posts), which is so unfortunate, for them as well as everyone else. I'm not far from accomplishing it myself...it has been a long term goal, and is finally right around the corner for me. However, my goal is not to teleport from California to Florida, it's to teleport from California (or where ever) into another dimension, to explore reality to it's fullest. I absolutely guarantee you...if you're very sincerely interested in anything that society calls "impossible", you will draw the possibility right to you. All the scientists at the very top know full well, and have known *for decades* that time travel, teleportation, anti-gravity saucer machines, etc. are absolutely real and exist NOW. Allrighty, enough said. Sincerely, Mr-Hankey, "Gee you smell nice'n'flowery!" (I know, I know...how the hell can you take a talking piece of shit seriously...well, we all do anyway, all the time, don't we.) -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 14:49:51 +0200 Lines: 51 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p23.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p23.telia.com Message-ID: <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t6o204p23.telia.com mr-hankey@mailcity.com wrote in message > >Both...I'm using scalar wave equipment developed by a scientist who >specializes in fourth-dimensional technology, and using meditation/breathing >exercises to gradually work my way in. I do believe it can be accomplished >without the tech, but it would require one be in very remote areas, (away >from electrical pollution, etc, that disrupts our bodies) and take much >longer. I have enough experience behind me (which admittedly isn't a real >lot) to know that it's possible, and I know of several people who've already >done it and do it regularly, and there's apparently a couple hundred people >worldwide who do it on a regular basis. It is said to be just about the >greatest experience one can have at this time in Earth's history, and that >it's to be a very standard part of living in the future. It's extremely >exciting. > >How about you? > I'm trying to build a time machine that will hopefully allow me to travel anywhere I want in space (teleportation) and also in time. But it can also be used for travel to the fourth dimension, the spiritual plane...whatever.... Mine will also use scalar waves, or maybe I should say an orgone field. But I will not have to do much meditation/breathing exercises, just need to mainly concentrate on the target while tuning the device.... I know this can be done without a device, maybe by being over a grid point, or using a powerful crystal. Or by using your own natural orgone source... But I don't quite understand when you say teleporting into another dimension. What do you mean by this? How does this other dimension look like? What is the point of physically travelling to this other dimension? Isn't spiritually just as well? I'm building a time machine for more practical reasons, than for exciting experiences.... But nice to know that you may use it for more exciting stuff too.... Kindest Regards, Lars ###### From: mr-hankey@mailcity.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sun, 06 Sep 1998 15:59:15 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 74 Message-ID: <6subgj$std$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.50.130.214 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Sep 06 15:59:15 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.01KIT (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x12.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.50.130.214 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com>, "Lars Rune Foleide" wrote: > mr-hankey@mailcity.com wrote in message > > > >Both...I'm using scalar wave equipment developed by a scientist who > >specializes in fourth-dimensional technology, and using > meditation/breathing > >exercises to gradually work my way in. I do believe it can be accomplished > >without the tech, but it would require one be in very remote areas, (away > >from electrical pollution, etc, that disrupts our bodies) and take much > >longer. I have enough experience behind me (which admittedly isn't a real > >lot) to know that it's possible, and I know of several people who've > already > >done it and do it regularly, and there's apparently a couple hundred people > >worldwide who do it on a regular basis. It is said to be just about the > >greatest experience one can have at this time in Earth's history, and that > >it's to be a very standard part of living in the future. It's extremely > >exciting. > > > >How about you? > > > > I'm trying to build a time machine that will hopefully allow me to travel > anywhere > I want in space (teleportation) and also in time. But it can also be used > for > travel to the fourth dimension, the spiritual plane...whatever.... > > Mine will also use scalar waves, or maybe I should say an orgone field. > > But I will not have to do much meditation/breathing exercises, just need to > mainly concentrate on the target while tuning the device.... > > I know this can be done without a device, maybe by being over a grid point, > or > using a powerful crystal. Or by using your own natural orgone source... > > But I don't quite understand when you say teleporting into another > dimension. > What do you mean by this? How does this other dimension look like? > What is the point of physically travelling to this other dimension? > Isn't spiritually just as well? > > I'm building a time machine for more practical reasons, than for exciting > experiences.... But nice to know that you may use it for more exciting stuff > too.... > > Kindest Regards, > Lars > > It's funny because your responses come so close to seemingly knowing what I'm doing that I'm kinda' suprised by your questions. You give me the impression you may've associated with some of the same people I have to get to where I am. I'll respond in more detail later, I'm pressed for time. I will comment on something now tho': Do you believe you will be able to travel into the future with your machine? The reason I ask is because the same scientist that developed my equipment built a time machine and used it successfully many years ago, and it sounds very similar to what you're doing. He said that in his future travel experiments, he simply went up into the astral plane where the "planning committee" is...meaning, the future doesn't exist until one is created out of all the potential possibilities, so a future journey would seem fruitless anyway. Comments? I'll write more later, Take Care... :> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6subgj$std$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Sun, 6 Sep 1998 18:43:28 +0200 Lines: 55 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p23.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p23.telia.com Message-ID: <35f2bbda.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-stkh.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t6o204p23.telia.com mr-hankey@mailcity.com wrote in message > >It's funny because your responses come so close to seemingly knowing what I'm >doing that I'm kinda' suprised by your questions. You give me the impression >you may've associated with some of the same people I have to get to where I >am. > >I'll respond in more detail later, I'm pressed for time. > >I will comment on something now tho': Do you believe you will be able to >travel into the future with your machine? The reason I ask is because the >same scientist that developed my equipment built a time machine and used it >successfully many years ago, and it sounds very similar to what you're doing. >He said that in his future travel experiments, he simply went up into the >astral plane where the "planning committee" is...meaning, the future doesn't >exist until one is created out of all the potential possibilities, so a >future journey would seem fruitless anyway. > >Comments? > >I'll write more later, Take Care... :> > The same people? I doubt it, but probably indirectly.... We are all connected some way or another.... Travel into the future?....yeah, sure... Why not... :) Interesting how this scientist of yours did it.... Though, I'm under the impression that the transfer happen instantaneously. Through the spiritual plane. No need to stay on the astral plane before travel to the future.... Anyway, that is just what I know.... :) I don't have a fully understanding of the various planes and dimensions. It would be great if you could give me more insight, what is so great with these dimensions, and why you find it so exciting... With the most pleasant, kindest, warmest, caring, tender, loving, sweetest regards you can ever imagine... (This is what I come up with when I'm upset, have a project going that I can't quite understand... when something lose its logic do I tend to get a little upset...) - Lars ###### From: mr-hankey@mailcity.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Mon, 07 Sep 1998 04:03:08 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 89 Message-ID: <6svltr$jlf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6subgj$std$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2bbda.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.157.153.251 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Sep 07 04:03:08 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/2.01KIT (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x9.dejanews.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 208.157.153.251 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!news-feeds.jump.net!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail In article <35f2bbda.0@d2o204.telia.com>, "Lars Rune Foleide" wrote: > The same people? > I doubt it, but probably indirectly.... > We are all connected some way or another.... > > Travel into the future?....yeah, sure... Why not... :) > Interesting how this scientist of yours did it.... > Though, I'm under the impression that the transfer happen > instantaneously. Through the spiritual plane. > No need to stay on the astral plane before travel to > the future.... > > Anyway, that is just what I know.... :) > > I don't have a fully understanding of the various planes and dimensions. > It would be great if you could give me more insight, what is so great with > these dimensions, and why you find it so exciting... > > With the most pleasant, kindest, warmest, caring, tender, loving, sweetest > regards you can ever imagine... > (This is what I come up with when I'm upset, have a project going that I > can't > quite understand... when something lose its logic do I tend to get a little > upset...) > - Lars > > Goodness sakes. You Norweigen's certainly are passionate ones, huh! (Bein' silly. I probably even have your location, or at least the spelling of it wrong, huh!) ;p Anyway...I can't give you a better idea about "demensions" and all that, as I only have ideas that I'm using right now, working with to get to where I'm going. Everything always comes down to whatever it is YOU yourself believe. I could sit here and explain my understanding of the ethers, the astral plane, the 4th dimension, and how quantum physics ties into it all. But not only would it take me forever, I certainly won't sit here and pretend to understand it fully myself. I only have my own working ideas, and those concepts will likely change as time progresses. Maybe over the course of time I can elaborate more on my understandings of it all, and we'll go from there. I sure as hell am not any expert. On top of this, we'd need to get all our definitions straight first; you mention "spiritual plane", and "astral plane", and your definitions of those things would need to be collaborated with mine. Especially "spiritual"...it's vague to me, I don't know exactly what you're referring to. I use that word to describe myself very often, and it simply means that I'm oriented towards self-growth and awareness. That basically sums it up anyway. As far as why it's so incredibly exciting...I'm of the belief, as are many others, that it's the ultimate in our evolution at this point in time, and will be a normal part of our future existance, to co-exist in more than one dimension. The 4th dimension offers incredible expansion on human perceptions (I'll go into more as I experience more, which will take time). One aspect of all this that blew my mind was when the book "The Celestine Prophecy" was released a few years ago; the last chapter, "Emerging Culture" made direct reference to this transition. The incredible part was how much publicity this book generated...I really feel this was on purpose, to help get us all prepared for what we have coming if we want it. I'm so extremely excited, because I know I'll be one of the pioneers in this field, and that it's my life purpose, which I've also known for a long time. It's my life. So many people worldwide use drugs to change their consciousness...they know there's something more out there, and drugs help them get closer to what they are trying to find. Making a conscious shift into another dimension, much like the dream state, is something many many people really desire. So many folks simply don't find all the fulfillment they seek here in the 3rd dimension. It's a natural transition to seek more as human beings, and that's what I'm doing. Very exciting to me, anyway. ;> Tell me more about "orgone"...much of the tech I use utilizes "orgone plating/layering", and I use lots of quartz crystal. Tell me about the construction of your machine if you can...also the costs involved. The scientist that had his cost him somewhere in the six-figure range. His was also a machine that precluded an anti-gravity saucer ship, as the point intially was to get the machine off the ground via the ship (to avoid geographical changes experienced as one shifted in time), then utilize the time device to go back/forward. Take Care. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6subgj$std$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2bbda.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6svltr$jlf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Mon, 7 Sep 1998 23:01:44 +0200 Lines: 111 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p21.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p21.telia.com Message-ID: <35f449ea.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!uninett.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t7o204p21.telia.com mr-hankey@mailcity.com wrote in message > >Goodness sakes. You Norweigen's certainly are passionate ones, huh! Was doing some testing on alt.test and I just couldn't find the logic in my project. So to get the feelings out of my system did I write a lot of in a message. Replayed to yours in moments later.... Anyway, I finally found the logic.... not usually that passionate... > >(Bein' silly. I probably even have your location, or at least the spelling of >it wrong, huh!) ;p > Wouldn't call every Norwegian's passionate, well, maybe when they're drunk... :) >Anyway...I can't give you a better idea about "dimensions" and all that, as I >only have ideas that I'm using right now, working with to get to where I'm >going. Everything always comes down to whatever it is YOU yourself believe. >I could sit here and explain my understanding of the ethers, the astral >plane, the 4th dimension, and how quantum physics ties into it all. But not >only would it take me forever, I certainly won't sit here and pretend to >understand it fully myself. I only have my own working ideas, and those >concepts will likely change as time progresses. Maybe over the course of >time I can elaborate more on my understandings of it all, and we'll go from >there. I sure as hell am not any expert. > >On top of this, we'd need to get all our definitions straight first; you >mention "spiritual plane", and "astral plane", and your definitions of those >things would need to be collaborated with mine. Especially >"spiritual"...it's vague to me, I don't know exactly what you're referring >to. I use that word to describe myself very often, and it simply means that >I'm oriented towards self-growth and awareness. That basically sums it up >anyway. I normally don't use terms like the "spiritual plane". Maybe just a word for what is out there...somewhere... :) Don't like the term "astral plane" either as astral mean: "Being or relating to or resembling or emanating from stars" Terms I like is the "physical plane" and the "mental plane" My understanding is that the physical plane is the plane you enter when you leave your body. Like finding yourself in the bedroom. You are in the physical world. The world we are in when awake. The mental plane is where our dreams take place. In a lucid dream are you in the mental plane. These two planes may of course merge, like finding things that aren't suppose to be in the physical world in the physical plane. We may call such experience the astral plane. Don't know much about higher planes than the mental... While in the physical plane can you also travel in time, to the future and the past... As you may understand doesn't any 4th dimension, or stuff I think you may be referring to fit into my current understanding... Let alone physically travelling to these planes I have just elaborated on. The physical plane can of course be done, but I can't imagine a way to physically travel to the mental plane. So a short description of your understanding of the 4th dimension would be great.... (Maybe my understanding of the planes will change when I get some personal experience....) But I normally use the term astral plane when I mean the physical plane. > >So many people worldwide use drugs to change their consciousness...they know >there's something more out there, and drugs help them get closer to what they >are trying to find. Making a conscious shift into another dimension, much >like the dream state, is something many many people really desire. So many >folks simply don't find all the fulfillment they seek here in the 3rd >dimension. It's a natural transition to seek more as human beings, and >that's what I'm doing. I can certainly see the fulfillment that can be found in consciously control your dream. Being free of the limitations you have here in the physical world... > >Tell me more about "orgone"...much of the tech I use utilizes "orgone >plating/layering", and I use lots of quartz crystal. Yeah, I too use quartz crystals..... Orgone.... well, I know there is a strong connection between scalar waves and orgone energy, but I'm not 100% sure if orgone energy and scalar waves at the same thing. A lot suggest it to be, but I'm still not sure... Orgone energy, from what I know is it a energy that can easily cross the time/space dimension. All mass sends it out. The body sends it out. And especially crystals and magnets. Cheers, Lars ###### From: Hegedus Jozsef Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 22:11:45 -0700 Organization: IIF Lines: 14 Message-ID: <35F60E11.1F5D1D85@freemail.c3.hu> References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6subgj$std$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2bbda.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: belugy.dial.iif.hu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; I) X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!news Hi ! Time mashine ? and what about Einstein's relativity theory ? Anyway i read that if you could send some info faster than light-speed then you could send info in the past... If you mind this time-mashine thing seriously then i would be glad to hear about the scientific base of your time-mashine .... really , exactly how you do this ? Thanx, Jocco .... ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ra0j4$jtj$1@plug.news.pipex.net> <6snr0s$bt9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f07f1d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6srk7p$b7i$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2851a.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6subgj$std$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <35f2bbda.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35F60E11.1F5D1D85@freemail.c3.hu> Subject: Re: Teleportation Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 23:47:59 +0200 Lines: 46 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p57.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p57.telia.com Message-ID: <35f5a643.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p57.telia.com Hegedus Jozsef wrote in message <35F60E11.1F5D1D85@freemail.c3.hu>... >Hi ! > >Time machine ? and what about Einstein's relativity theory ? >Anyway I read that if you could send some info faster than light-speed >then you >could send info in the past... > >If you mind this time-machine thing seriously then I would be glad to >hear about >the scientific base of your time-machine .... really , exactly how you >do this ? > >Thanx, Jocco .... > Einstein has nothing to do with it. And travelling faster than light will not send info into the past.... A flaw in Einstein's Special Relativity has made people believe that. This flaw has been found and a new theory of relativity will give you the right answers. Check out www.AutoDynamics.org if you want to know more about the "correct" theory of relativity.... It says among a few things that the speed of light is NOT the upper limit. Neutrinos doesn't exist, and more.... Did you know the pico-gravitons travel at 27 times the speed of light? The time machine works by using the orgone energy coming from crystals and magnets. It is conducted, amplified, directed, concentrated, tuned, and creates a field that makes time travel possible (hopefully). It is dealing with energies, not speed..... Cheers, Lars