From: "Peter Fellows" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 12:36:57 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 57 Message-ID: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-207-205-163-48.nwrk.grid.net X-Server-Date: 26 Jul 1998 16:34:30 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Many times when we "leave" the physical body we seem to have a second body. Occultists have given this second body many names (astral, etheric, subtle, light, energy, star, spirit, soul). But, as you have more and more experiences out of body, you begin to wonder if the real situation is as simple as that. When you are out of body you may perceive your environment in bodily terms, weight, temperature, air touching your "skin," seeing things, hearing things, feeling things, smelling things and so forth. This supports the notion of a second body similar to the physical one but able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, or even go through them. I suspect though, that the experience of a second body in the Dreamtime is simply a comforting hallucination that we use when Dreamwalking. I certainly find it comforting. The trick though, is NOT to let the hallucination limit you. If we believe we have a second body then we begin to define it and definitions usually include limitations. What properties does the second body have? What can it do or not do? Can it be damaged? How does it get back in the physical body? What if some other person beats us back to our physical body? And so on. Of course, if psychologists are correct and the OBE is essentially just a mental event, a form of Lucid Dreaming, then those questions are immaterial. If the occultists are correct, then they are quite pertinent. For the purposes of coaching people to get out of body, the model of a second body is very useful. I use it all the time. Once you have learnt to get out with some regularity though, you may want to change your model to allow yourself more freedom. What if consciousness has no form? What if you can just perceive locations or persons by focusing upon them? The reason I bring this up is that it might give us clues to understanding how to navigate better in the Dreamtime. Sometimes when I am having an "out of body experience" I will be looking at, say, the front of my house. I will see the house as if I am "X" number of feet from it, but interspersed with that I will see aspects of it that I could not perceive physically from my vantage point at "X" feet away. I suspect the reason for this is that my intent to examine the house triggers my consciousness to "move" to a perspective that will allow that, but there is no sensation of "physical" movement. I can simultaneously view the house from many perspectives as if my awareness is not limited to the vantage point of my second body. Understanding that consciousness in the Dreamtime may be far more flexible than the second body model suggests, helps us begin to understand the complexities of perception in the Dreamtime. It is important that we not automatically assign physical limitations to our Dreamwalking experience. Cheers, Peter, www.pipeline.com/~aislinn ###### From: Zac Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:14:34 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 22 Message-ID: <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: psycho_dude@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ple-ca15-01.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 26 8:07:48 PM CDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Trish wrote in message <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > > > >That was a real nice comment Lars. I'm glad to see that one of us in here > >has all the answers. > > > > Yup, a results of two months with heavy research.... > Collecting info from different sources.... > > I'm creating a site now, so I can share my knowledge... > > Have fun, > Lars After two months, you think you have the answers to all of the problems that have plagued mankind for milenia? -- -Zac I have great faith in fools, self-confidence my friends call it. --Edgar Allen Poe ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:23:44 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust250.tnt3.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net X-Auth: D511971D51D1CD8649C18491 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.giganews.com!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com>... > >Interesting thoughts you have, though I mostly know everything. > >But it is nice discussing them anyway. > That was a real nice comment Lars. I'm glad to see that one of us in here has all the answers. Greetings from Florida .................... Trish capuchin@gte.net silencexx@hotmail.com ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 20:31:19 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 82 Message-ID: <6pghgg$9p8$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust250.tnt3.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net X-Auth: D511971D048FCDD750988491 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.251.127.50!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail Peter Fellows wrote in message <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com>... > Many times when we "leave" the physical body we seem to have a second >body. Occultists have given this second body many names (astral, etheric, >subtle, light, energy, star, spirit, soul). But, as you have more and more >experiences out of body, you begin to wonder if the real situation is as >simple as that. > > When you are out of body you may perceive your environment in bodily >terms, weight, temperature, air touching your "skin," seeing things, hearing >things, feeling things, smelling things and so forth. This supports the >notion of a second body similar to the physical one but able to leap tall >buildings in a single bound, or even go through them. > > I suspect though, that the experience of a second body in the Dreamtime >is simply a comforting hallucination that we use when Dreamwalking. I >certainly find it comforting. The trick though, is NOT to let the >hallucination limit you. > > If we believe we have a second body then we begin to define it and >definitions usually include limitations. What properties does the second >body have? What can it do or not do? Can it be damaged? How does it get back >in the physical body? What if some other person beats us back to our >physical body? And so on. > >Of course, if psychologists are correct and the OBE is essentially just a >mental event, a form of Lucid Dreaming, then those questions are immaterial. >If the occultists are correct, then they are quite pertinent. > > For the purposes of coaching people to get out of body, the model of a >second body is very useful. I use it all the time. Once you have learnt to >get out with some regularity though, you may want to change your model to >allow yourself more freedom. > > What if consciousness has no form? What if you can just perceive >locations or persons by focusing upon them? > > The reason I bring this up is that it might give us clues to >understanding how to navigate better in the Dreamtime. Sometimes when I am >having an "out of body experience" I will be looking at, say, the front of >my house. I will see the house as if I am "X" number of feet from it, but >interspersed with that I will see aspects of it that I could not perceive >physically from my vantage point at "X" feet away. > > I suspect the reason for this is that my intent to examine the house >triggers my consciousness to "move" to a perspective that will allow that, >but there is no sensation of "physical" movement. I can simultaneously view >the house from many perspectives as if my awareness is not limited to the >vantage point of my second body. > > Understanding that consciousness in the Dreamtime may be far more >flexible than the second body model suggests, helps us begin to understand >the complexities of perception in the Dreamtime. It is important that we not >automatically assign physical limitations to our Dreamwalking experience. > >Cheers, Peter, www.pipeline.com/~aislinn I see what you're saying here Peter. A lot of what we experience while out of body is based on our expectations, and our habits of physical perception. It's fascinating when we come across something that exemplifies details of perception that we thought were not available ... such as your different vantage points while inspecting the house. Other similarities would be a kind of x-ray vision .. or seeing into objects .. or magnifying them to see their molecular structure. Color is different as well. Almost seems like the color spectrum isn't as limited as it is in the physical. I've seen colors in the astral that have no physical counterpart. Greetings from Florida .................... Trish capuchin@gte.net silencexx@hotmail.com ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:41:09 +0200 Lines: 104 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p57.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p57.telia.com Message-ID: <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!news-nyc.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p57.telia.com Peter Fellows wrote in message <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com>... > Many times when we "leave" the physical body we seem to have a second >body. Occultists have given this second body many names (astral, etheric, >subtle, light, energy, star, spirit, soul). But, as you have more and more >experiences out of body, you begin to wonder if the real situation is as >simple as that. > > When you are out of body you may perceive your environment in bodily >terms, weight, temperature, air touching your "skin," seeing things, hearing >things, feeling things, smelling things and so forth. This supports the >notion of a second body similar to the physical one but able to leap tall >buildings in a single bound, or even go through them. > > I suspect though, that the experience of a second body in the Dreamtime >is simply a comforting hallucination that we use when Dreamwalking. I >certainly find it comforting. The trick though, is NOT to let the >hallucination limit you. > > If we believe we have a second body then we begin to define it and >definitions usually include limitations. What properties does the second >body have? What can it do or not do? Can it be damaged? How does it get back >in the physical body? What if some other person beats us back to our >physical body? And so on. > >Of course, if psychologists are correct and the OBE is essentially just a >mental event, a form of Lucid Dreaming, then those questions are immaterial. >If the occultists are correct, then they are quite pertinent. > > For the purposes of coaching people to get out of body, the model of a >second body is very useful. I use it all the time. Once you have learnt to >get out with some regularity though, you may want to change your model to >allow yourself more freedom. > > What if consciousness has no form? What if you can just perceive >locations or persons by focusing upon them? > > The reason I bring this up is that it might give us clues to >understanding how to navigate better in the Dreamtime. Sometimes when I am >having an "out of body experience" I will be looking at, say, the front of >my house. I will see the house as if I am "X" number of feet from it, but >interspersed with that I will see aspects of it that I could not perceive >physically from my vantage point at "X" feet away. > > I suspect the reason for this is that my intent to examine the house >triggers my consciousness to "move" to a perspective that will allow that, >but there is no sensation of "physical" movement. I can simultaneously view >the house from many perspectives as if my awareness is not limited to the >vantage point of my second body. > > Understanding that consciousness in the Dreamtime may be far more >flexible than the second body model suggests, helps us begin to understand >the complexities of perception in the Dreamtime. It is important that we not >automatically assign physical limitations to our Dreamwalking experience. > >Cheers, Peter, www.pipeline.com/~aislinn > Interesting thoughts you have, though I mostly know everything. But it is nice discussing them anyway. When we leave our body isn't it a body that leaves, it is pure energy. But not energy that we normally deal with. It is something called orgone energy or scalar waves. Now, this energy can take any form it wants, it can get every information from the past, present and future from the whole universe. That is a fact, and by working on that can we start finding out what we can do when out of body. It was interesting that you could see many views of the house.... Note that when I say every information, do I mean everything that has happened in the physical world and spiritual world. Every thought, impression, feeling, you name it. Not to mention everything will happen in the future. So if you want to find to find an answer to something you don't have a clue about, then that can be done. All you need is intent. So there is no limits. What is interesting is that if you have enough orgone energy can everything be done. Even everything that can be done on the astral plane can be done in the physical plane. Interesting that Scott used to find a lightning when he was OOB. Those lightning contains A LOT of orgone energy. But I not sure about different planes, what are your views on that Peter? They may be vibrating on a higher level. And there should be a reason to why the occultists have named several planes... The problem is that I don't have much info on it.... There are no limit, you just create them... Lars ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:01:12 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 47 Message-ID: <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust29.tnt1.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net X-Auth: D51197045A80CDDB16C78491 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com>... >Zac wrote in message <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com>... >> >>After two months, you think you have the answers to all of the problems >>that have plagued mankind for milenia? >> > >Yup, with good help from others.... > >An open mind has sure brought me far.... > >But then I have done nothing else those two months... >Just sitting here any clicking, searching and digging.... > >Hehe, one of our dog is in REM right now!! >Amazing, I think it is running.... :) > >And it has only slept for 5 minutes....(!) > >I have pictures of my dog on my site if anyone care to take a look... > >http://www.vestdata.no/~larsrune > >My dog just woke up... >A short REM... > >Interesting research object... > > >Lars Oh my God. I'm sorry Zac. I can't even comment. I'm completely speechless. Well .. no, not speechless, but I've had enough. I'll try refrain from any further comments. I've been in enough battles, and I grow weary of it. Greetings from Florida .................... Trish capuchin@gte.net silencexx@hotmail.com ###### From: Zac Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 23:19:10 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 20 Message-ID: <35BC1BDD.2404@geocities.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bc036d.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: psycho_dude@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ple-ca10-11.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jul 26 11:12:21 PM PDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news2.ais.net!jamie!ais.net!ix.netcom.com!news Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Trish wrote in message <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > > > >Oh my God. I'm sorry Zac. I can't even comment. I'm completely > >speechless. Well .. no, not speechless, but I've had enough. I'll try > >refrain from any further comments. I've been in enough battles, and I > >grow weary of it. > > > > You lost me on this one.... > > Lars Ditto -- -Zac I have great faith in fools, self-confidence my friends call it. --Edgar Allen Poe ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:49:49 +0200 Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p42.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p42.telia.com Message-ID: <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p42.telia.com Trish wrote in message <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > >That was a real nice comment Lars. I'm glad to see that one of us in here >has all the answers. > Yup, a results of two months with heavy research.... Collecting info from different sources.... I'm creating a site now, so I can share my knowledge... Have fun, Lars ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 03:38:13 +0200 Lines: 31 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p42.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p42.telia.com Message-ID: <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p42.telia.com Zac wrote in message <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com>... > >After two months, you think you have the answers to all of the problems >that have plagued mankind for milenia? > Yup, with good help from others.... An open mind has sure brought me far.... But then I have done nothing else those two months... Just sitting here any clicking, searching and digging.... Hehe, one of our dog is in REM right now!! Amazing, I think it is running.... :) And it has only slept for 5 minutes....(!) I have pictures of my dog on my site if anyone care to take a look... http://www.vestdata.no/~larsrune My dog just woke up... A short REM... Interesting research object... Lars ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 06:33:15 +0200 Lines: 14 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p42.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p42.telia.com Message-ID: <35bc036d.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.nacamar.de!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p42.telia.com Trish wrote in message <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > >Oh my God. I'm sorry Zac. I can't even comment. I'm completely >speechless. Well .. no, not speechless, but I've had enough. I'll try >refrain from any further comments. I've been in enough battles, and I >grow weary of it. > You lost me on this one.... Lars ###### From: Zac Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:06:32 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 37 Message-ID: <35BD5C58.1F1F@geocities.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> Reply-To: psycho_dude@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ple-ca17-24.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 27 9:59:28 PM PDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.pop.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news Enigma wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:49:49 +0200, "Lars Rune Foleide" > wrote: > > >Trish wrote in message <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > >> > >>That was a real nice comment Lars. I'm glad to see that one of us in here > >>has all the answers. > > > >Yup, a results of two months with heavy research.... > >Collecting info from different sources.... > > > >I'm creating a site now, so I can share my knowledge... > > Lars, no offense but I think it might be helpful for you to consider > what the difference is between knowledge and belief. > If you really start thinking about it, you might find that much of > what you think you "know" is really based on faith or belief. > > I look at it this way. Through direct experience we may gain insight > and possibly some wisdom if we are lucky. As we gain more insight > and wisdom, we realize more and more how little we really do > "know". Well, something like that anyway. Just a thought > wave directed your way, not knowledge... ;-) > > regards, > Enigma Well said Enigma, a famous person said once true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing or something to that effect, I guess if that was true then I would be the wisest person ever :-) Hell, most people already think I'm a wise ass, same thing right :-) -- -Zac I have great faith in fools, self-confidence my friends call it. --Edgar Allen Poe ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: 27 Jul 1998 22:37:31 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6pivfb$c8q@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-18.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jul 27 3:37:31 PM PDT 1998 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news In <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> "Lars Rune Foleide" writes: > >Hehe, one of our dog is in REM right now!! >Amazing, I think it is running.... :) Maybe he's dreaming that Timmy fell in the well again. >And it has only slept for 5 minutes....(!) > >I have pictures of my dog on my site if anyone care to take a look... > >http://www.vestdata.no/~larsrune > >My dog just woke up... >A short REM... Does your dog keep a dream journal? Bart ###### From: Enigma Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 03:43:50 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts6-46t-8.idirect.com Lines: 28 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!island.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!ts6-46t-8.idirect.com On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 02:49:49 +0200, "Lars Rune Foleide" wrote: >Trish wrote in message <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... >> >>That was a real nice comment Lars. I'm glad to see that one of us in here >>has all the answers. > >Yup, a results of two months with heavy research.... >Collecting info from different sources.... > >I'm creating a site now, so I can share my knowledge... Lars, no offense but I think it might be helpful for you to consider what the difference is between knowledge and belief. If you really start thinking about it, you might find that much of what you think you "know" is really based on faith or belief. I look at it this way. Through direct experience we may gain insight and possibly some wisdom if we are lucky. As we gain more insight and wisdom, we realize more and more how little we really do "know". Well, something like that anyway. Just a thought wave directed your way, not knowledge... ;-) regards, Enigma ###### From: stonelvr@aol.com (StoneLvr) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Lines: 12 Message-ID: <1998072804105000.AAA17591@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 28 Jul 1998 04:10:50 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Lars wrote: >> Yup, a results of two months with heavy research.... >> Collecting info from different sources.... >> >> I'm creating a site now, so I can share my knowledge... When the teacher no longer learns wonder how long before death? Pondering, Irene ###### From: jadamdavis@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:50:14 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 79 Message-ID: <6pkad6$di9$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.35.207.183 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jul 28 10:50:14 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.03 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail I will just say that OBE's are a basic start. Moving your consciousness as Soul and separating from your body is the important and worthwhile direction. Please respond to me directly should you be interested. Regards Adam jadamdavis@hotmail.com In article <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com>, "Peter Fellows" wrote: > Many times when we "leave" the physical body we seem to have a second > body. Occultists have given this second body many names (astral, etheric, > subtle, light, energy, star, spirit, soul). But, as you have more and more > experiences out of body, you begin to wonder if the real situation is as > simple as that. > > When you are out of body you may perceive your environment in bodily > terms, weight, temperature, air touching your "skin," seeing things, hearing > things, feeling things, smelling things and so forth. This supports the > notion of a second body similar to the physical one but able to leap tall > buildings in a single bound, or even go through them. > > I suspect though, that the experience of a second body in the Dreamtime > is simply a comforting hallucination that we use when Dreamwalking. I > certainly find it comforting. The trick though, is NOT to let the > hallucination limit you. > > If we believe we have a second body then we begin to define it and > definitions usually include limitations. What properties does the second > body have? What can it do or not do? Can it be damaged? How does it get back > in the physical body? What if some other person beats us back to our > physical body? And so on. > > Of course, if psychologists are correct and the OBE is essentially just a > mental event, a form of Lucid Dreaming, then those questions are immaterial. > If the occultists are correct, then they are quite pertinent. > > For the purposes of coaching people to get out of body, the model of a > second body is very useful. I use it all the time. Once you have learnt to > get out with some regularity though, you may want to change your model to > allow yourself more freedom. > > What if consciousness has no form? What if you can just perceive > locations or persons by focusing upon them? > > The reason I bring this up is that it might give us clues to > understanding how to navigate better in the Dreamtime. Sometimes when I am > having an "out of body experience" I will be looking at, say, the front of > my house. I will see the house as if I am "X" number of feet from it, but > interspersed with that I will see aspects of it that I could not perceive > physically from my vantage point at "X" feet away. > > I suspect the reason for this is that my intent to examine the house > triggers my consciousness to "move" to a perspective that will allow that, > but there is no sensation of "physical" movement. I can simultaneously view > the house from many perspectives as if my awareness is not limited to the > vantage point of my second body. > > Understanding that consciousness in the Dreamtime may be far more > flexible than the second body model suggests, helps us begin to understand > the complexities of perception in the Dreamtime. It is important that we not > automatically assign physical limitations to our Dreamwalking experience. > > Cheers, Peter, www.pipeline.com/~aislinn > > I will just say that OBE's are a basic start. Moving your consciousness as Soul and separating from your body is the important and worthwhile direction. Please respond to me directly should you be interested. Regards Adam jadamdavis@hotmail.com -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:38:49 +0200 Lines: 22 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p3.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p3.telia.com Message-ID: <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t6o204p3.telia.com Enigma wrote in message <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com>... > >Lars, no offense but I think it might be helpful for you to consider >what the difference is between knowledge and belief. >If you really start thinking about it, you might find that much of >what you think you "know" is really based on faith or belief. > Anyway, what I have to say make sense, and further investigation will strengthen that.... And people might have a lot to learn from my belief/knowledge, not to mention the new worlds that will open.... That is the main goal. To experience all the wonderful things a few of us are. Lars ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> <1998072804105000.AAA17591@ladder03.news.aol.com> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:40:29 +0200 Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p3.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p3.telia.com Message-ID: <35bdc623.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t6o204p3.telia.com StoneLvr wrote in message > >When the teacher no longer learns wonder how long before death? > Oh, I will still be learning.... My problem is that I will develop techniques that will make it so easy to learn that I'm starting to wonder if I'm learning too fast.... Well, I might start exploring with time... That is fun too. Lars ###### From: Zac Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 15:38:00 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 34 Message-ID: <35BE52C8.2DCA@geocities.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: psycho_dude@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ple-ca23-40.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 28 5:31:05 PM CDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > I have been in this business so long that I can pretty much tell a fact > from a fake. I feel I'm in control and that what I know is true. > It is all based on what I have read and learned. So I can't be > 100 % sure that it is true. I'll say 98-99 %..... > Lars, you can't be in any business long enough to be able to tell fact from fiction. Self confidence is one thing, but you carry it too far sometimes. > It can't exclude that they may change... > My opinions on the astral plane may change, or I might find out that it > doesn't exist. > And they may change when I get more personal experience... > > Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my posts, that what I say my not be > correct, and that I'm not responsible for any consequences that might > occur? > Just find ways to be more subtle, instead of saying that things are facts, state them as your opinions or ideas. I don't think that I have ever really seen anything that is a fact, because it can be looked at in a different way and be false. There is truth in everything, as there are lies in everything. > > Cheers, > Lars -- -Zac I have great faith in fools, self-confidence my friends call it. --Edgar Allen Poe ###### From: Enigma Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 16:41:05 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <35bdfe86.954120@usenet.idirect.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35BD5C58.1F1F@geocities.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-6t-2.idirect.com Lines: 16 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!island.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!ts7-6t-2.idirect.com On Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:06:32 -0700, Zac wrote: >Well said Enigma, a famous person said once true wisdom is knowing that >you know nothing or something to that effect, I guess if that was true >then I would be the wisest person ever :-) >Hell, most people already think I'm a wise ass, same thing right :-) >-- > -Zac Heheh, good one Zac! :-D regards, Enigma ###### From: Zac Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:14:56 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 48 Message-ID: <35BE6980.1E0@geocities.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35BD5C58.1F1F@geocities.com> Reply-To: psycho_dude@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ple-ca6-02.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jul 28 7:08:00 PM CDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news Neil Franklin wrote: > > Zac writes: > > > > Enigma wrote: > > > > > > If you really start thinking about it, you might find that much of > > > what you think you "know" is really based on faith or belief. > > > > > > I look at it this way. Through direct experience we may gain insight > > > and possibly some wisdom if we are lucky. As we gain more insight > > > and wisdom, we realize more and more how little we really do > > > "know". Well, something like that anyway. Just a thought > > > wave directed your way, not knowledge... ;-) > > If you want a nice example of knowledge vs belief to give to Lars > then try this one: > > You see an Apple drop. You think of gravitation. > > But all that you know is: that it dropped. Gravitation is already > an belief. Derived from seeing many things dropping, noticing it > happen when nothing is stopping them, experiencing a force when > holding one to prevent it. > > Don't believe that? Have you ever seen/heard/felt gravity? > > Note: feeling an force "downwards" is not the same as feeling gravity, > which consists of an belief in everything having an an atribute > called mass and any 2 things attracting with an force of g*m1*m1/d^2. > > > Well said Enigma, a famous person said once true wisdom is knowing that > > you know nothing or something to that effect > > "I know I do not know anything" - Socrates, or so the UL claims it. I think that is the quote I was looking for, seems like I remember it being from one of those ancient Greek philosophers :-) > > -- > home: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ > work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ > *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** The words Lars lives by :-) -- -Zac I have great faith in fools, self-confidence my friends call it. --Edgar Allen Poe ###### From: Enigma Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:48:18 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-25t-5.idirect.com Lines: 51 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!island.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!ts7-25t-5.idirect.com On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:38:49 +0200, "Lars Rune Foleide" wrote: >Anyway, what I have to say make sense, and further investigation >will strengthen that.... Maybe, maybe not. Much of what you are presenting here as making sense and being facts is really just things you have read or heard somewhere. Your opinion on many of these things may change over time as you gain more experience and insight and gain more exposure to others poionts of view as well. What I am suggesting is that when you are expressing an opinion, you would do well to present it as an opinion rather than as fact. If you present something as a fact it might be a good idea to give a reference to the source of your information so people have some way of evaluating the information. BTW, just because something is in writing somewhere, it doesn't mean that it is necessarily true. You do realize that? Let me give you a concrete example of what I am trying to say. Shortly after you first joined this newsgroup you began stating that lucid dreams and OBE's were exactly the same thing, even though you had never had either type of experience. You were basing your *opinion* on one text you had read about OBE's and then passing it off as if it were *fact*, rather than just someone's opinion. (BTW, Don DeGracia was careful to state in his course on astral projection that much of what he was saying was his opinion and that he was open to being questioned on his opinions.) Now that you have had a couple of lucid dreams yourself, are you still so absolutely certain that lucid dreams and OBE's are exactly the same thing? As I recall, you now seem to be of the opinion that lucid dreams can be used to launch OBE's and that there may well be some difference between the two. Whether there really is a difference between lucid dreams and OBE's is not my point here, my point is that what you once were insisting in this newsgroup was fact and made sense seems now to have changed. If it really was fact, how come you seem to have a different *opinion* about it now? Do you now think that your current opinion about this is fact and makes sense, or do you realize that your current view is just your current view and may change again a little further down the road? See my point? (No, not the point on the top of my head... :-) ) >That is the main goal. To experience all the wonderful things a few of >us are. I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, can you reiterate that? regards, Enigma ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:58:03 +0200 Lines: 105 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p18.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p18.telia.com Message-ID: <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t7o204p18.telia.com Enigma wrote in message <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com>... > >Maybe, maybe not. Much of what you are presenting here as making sense >and being facts is really just things you have read or heard >somewhere. Your opinion on many of these things may change over time >as you gain more experience and insight and gain more exposure to >others points of view as well. What I am suggesting is that when you >are expressing an opinion, you would do well to present it as an >opinion rather than as fact. If you present something as a fact it >might be a good idea to give a reference to the source of your >information so people have some way of evaluating the information. >BTW, just because something is in writing somewhere, it doesn't mean >that it is necessarily true. You do realize that? > I have been in this business so long that I can pretty much tell a fact from a fake. I feel I'm in control and that what I know is true. It is all based on what I have read and learned. So I can't be 100 % sure that it is true. I'll say 98-99 %..... >Let me give you a concrete example of what I am >trying to say. Shortly after you first joined this newsgroup you began >stating that lucid dreams and OBE's were exactly the same thing, even >though you had never had either type of experience. You were basing >your *opinion* on one text you had read about OBE's and then passing >it off as if it were *fact*, rather than just someone's opinion. (BTW, >Don DeGracia was careful to state in his course on astral projection >that much of what he was saying was his opinion and that he was open >to being questioned on his opinions.) Now that you have had a couple >of lucid dreams yourself, are you still so absolutely certain that >lucid dreams and OBE's are exactly the same thing? As I recall, you >now seem to be of the opinion that lucid dreams can be used to launch >OBE's and that there may well be some difference between the two. > I remember that, I had only known about OBE for a week or two. And quite eager was reading everything I could find. But my opinions haven't changed much. Lucid Dreaming takes place on the mental plane and OBE on the physical plane. The astral plane is a bad projection. A mixture between both those planes.... This is my way of talking. I state everything as a fact, and I not anyone disagree with me, then it will remain a fact in my views... But I want to point out that I have a lot more knowledge now, than what I did when I first got here.... > Whether there really is a difference between lucid dreams and OBE's >is not my point here, my point is that what you once were insisting >in this newsgroup was fact and made sense seems now to have >changed. If it really was fact, how come you seem to have a different >*opinion* about it now? Do you now think that your current opinion >about this is fact and makes sense, or do you realize that your >current view is just your current view and may change again a little >further down the road? See my point? (No, not the point on the top >of my head... :-) ) > It can't exclude that they may change... My opinions on the astral plane may change, or I might find out that it doesn't exist. And they may change when I get more personal experience... Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my posts, that what I say my not be correct, and that I'm not responsible for any consequences that might occur? >>That is the main goal. To experience all the wonderful things a few of >>us are. > >I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, can you reiterate that? > How many know about OBE and even Lucid dreaming... Just ask around... ask them if they know that they can control their dream. Ask them if they know they can share a dream, view distant locations. See into the future, and even have astral sex. If they know they can read 1 million words per minutes, that they can naturally improve their vision, not matter how bad, or what disease they have. If they know that they can change their life through hypnosis, or increase their IQ through ImageStreaming. If they know if they can improve their psychic abilities, or travel in time and space? Or create objects with orgone energy. See my point? Not many people know about this. My goal is to radically change the world in a few months... Or at least give the public the opportunity to know what I know... I want to share all this information. And by taking paid will people think that I'm only after money. And it will also radically slow down the progress.... It is just that I'm on a strict time program.... Well, when I build my time/space machine is that not a big problem anymore. Cheers, Lars ###### From: Enigma Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 00:48:10 GMT Organization: the void that is not void Message-ID: <35be6d7f.2247668@usenet.idirect.com> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-11t-24.idirect.com Lines: 80 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!island.idirect.com!oasis.idirect.com!ts7-11t-24.idirect.com On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 23:58:03 +0200, "Lars Rune Foleide" wrote: >I have been in this business so long that I can pretty much tell a fact >from a fake. I feel I'm in control and that what I know is true. >It is all based on what I have read and learned. So I can't be >100 % sure that it is true. I'll say 98-99 %..... I thought you previously said that you have only started reading about these subjects a few months ago? Anyway, maybe with more experience you will lower your confidence level a bit more. :-) >This is my way of talking. I state everything as a fact, and I not anyone >disagree with me, then it will remain a fact in my views... That is not reliable. People don't always respond to posts that they disagree with. I certainly don't. Whether I respond to posts or not has more to do with how much free time I have at any particular time. >It can't exclude that they may change... >My opinions on the astral plane may change, or I might find out that it >doesn't exist. >And they may change when I get more personal experience... > >Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my posts, that what I say my not be >correct, and that I'm not responsible for any consequences that might >occur? Well that's probably not necessary. It's just how you present what you say. Anyway it was just a suggestion based on how I see some people reacting to your posts. :-) >>>That is the main goal. To experience all the wonderful things a few of >>>us are. >> >>I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, can you reiterate that? >> > >How many know about OBE and even Lucid dreaming... >Just ask around... ask them if they know that they can control their dream. >Ask them if they know they can share a dream, >view distant locations. >See into the future, >and even have astral sex. >If they know they can read 1 million words per minutes, >that they can naturally improve their vision, not matter how bad, or what >disease they have. >If they know that they can change their life through hypnosis, >or increase their IQ through ImageStreaming. >If they know if they can improve their psychic abilities, >or travel in time and space? >Or create objects with orgone energy. > >See my point? >Not many people know about this. >My goal is to radically change the world in a few months... > >Or at least give the public the opportunity to know what I know... >I want to share all this information. And by taking paid will people >think that I'm only after money. And it will also radically slow down >the progress.... > >It is just that I'm on a strict time program.... >Well, when I build my time/space machine is that not a big problem anymore. Ah ok, I see what you are saying now. It is highly commendable of you to want to do this. Your site will probably be taken more seriously though if you make it clear what stuff is yours or someone else's opinion. Having references to original sources of the information you are presenting will also be quite helpful too for people to further evaluate the information you are presenting. Good luck with your projects! regards, Enigma ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: 29 Jul 1998 01:26:58 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35BD5C58.1F1F@geocities.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Zac writes: > > Enigma wrote: > > > > If you really start thinking about it, you might find that much of > > what you think you "know" is really based on faith or belief. > > > > I look at it this way. Through direct experience we may gain insight > > and possibly some wisdom if we are lucky. As we gain more insight > > and wisdom, we realize more and more how little we really do > > "know". Well, something like that anyway. Just a thought > > wave directed your way, not knowledge... ;-) If you want a nice example of knowledge vs belief to give to Lars then try this one: You see an Apple drop. You think of gravitation. But all that you know is: that it dropped. Gravitation is already an belief. Derived from seeing many things dropping, noticing it happen when nothing is stopping them, experiencing a force when holding one to prevent it. Don't believe that? Have you ever seen/heard/felt gravity? Note: feeling an force "downwards" is not the same as feeling gravity, which consists of an belief in everything having an an atribute called mass and any 2 things attracting with an force of g*m1*m1/d^2. > Well said Enigma, a famous person said once true wisdom is knowing that > you know nothing or something to that effect "I know I do not know anything" - Socrates, or so the UL claims it. -- home: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ work: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ *** It's true ! I read it on Usenet and the Web ! *** ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be6d7f.2247668@usenet.idirect.com> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 04:18:32 +0200 Lines: 47 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p32.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t6o204p32.telia.com Message-ID: <35be876e.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t6o204p32.telia.com Enigma wrote in message <35be6d7f.2247668@usenet.idirect.com>... > >I thought you previously said that you have only started reading >about these subjects a few months ago? Anyway, maybe with >more experience you will lower your confidence level a bit more. :-) > That is correct. But I'm on vacation. Having 24 hours a day to do what ever I want. It is not like I have been reading a couple of pages a few times a week. No. I have asked myself questions and found answers... But some experience could also come handy.... > >That is not reliable. People don't always respond to posts that >they disagree with. I certainly don't. Whether I respond to >posts or not has more to do with how much free time I have >at any particular time. > I know.... I have been responding to most of what I disagree with lately, but I have discovered that I don't have time for that anymore. I need to slow down a bit and try focusing on other things. Like my site or my projects... > >Ah ok, I see what you are saying now. It is highly commendable >of you to want to do this. Your site will probably be taken more >seriously though if you make it clear what stuff is yours or someone >else's opinion. Having references to original sources of the >information you are presenting will also be quite helpful too >for people to further evaluate the information you are presenting. >Good luck with your projects! > Oh, I will have a bunch of links and references on that site too. But I will also make each topics as easy as possible to accomplish. So that people may make their own opinions if it is correct or not. Hypnosis can speed up most every process, so I think I will make a few hypnotic mp3-files too.... Cheers, Lars ###### Message-ID: <35BEBDCF.286C3C04@the.end.of.message> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 16:14:39 +1000 From: Craig X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.54 X-Trace: 29 Jul 1998 16:21:28 +1000, 203.18.28.54 Lines: 20 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-raspail.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.quebectel.com!Pollux.Teleglobe.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.54 [Lars wrote] > It can't exclude that they may change... > My opinions on the astral plane may change, or I might find out that it > doesn't exist. > And they may change when I get more personal experience... > > Maybe I should add a disclaimer to my posts, that what I say my not be > correct, and that I'm not responsible for any consequences that might > occur? Are we all watching Lars growing into a man or what! ;-) -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au ####### Message-ID: <35BF1DEC.CCBC15A4@the.end.of.message> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:04:44 +1000 From: Craig X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be6d7f.2247668@usenet.idirect.com> <35be876e.0@d2o204.telia.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.18.28.50 X-Trace: 29 Jul 1998 23:23:11 +1000, 203.18.28.50 Lines: 22 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!news.megsinet.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!nap-ns1!203.18.28.50 [Lars wrote] > Oh, I will have a bunch of links and references on that site too. > But I will also make each topics as easy as possible to accomplish. > So that people may make their own opinions if it is correct or not. > Hypnosis can speed up most every process, so I think I will make > a few hypnotic mp3-files too.... How about mov, avi or plain mpg files Lars. :-) I know I can't read mp3 files, so if you want more people to see what you have to offer, make it more available. :-) All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin To respond, delete _nospam_ scrappy@_nospam_netconnect.com.au ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35bd43ac.2564386@usenet.idirect.com> <35bdc622.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be02df.2066958@usenet.idirect.com> <35be48d0.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35be6d7f.2247668@usenet.idirect.com> <35be876e.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BF1DEC.CCBC15A4@the.end.of.message> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:31:33 +0200 Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p24.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p24.telia.com Message-ID: <35bfb03a.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p24.telia.com Craig wrote in message > >How about mov, avi or plain mpg files Lars. :-) I know I can't read mp3 >files, so if you want more people to see what you have to offer, make it >more available. :-) > Download winamp.... http://www.winamp.com I'm not making a movie, just sound files, and the best format for that is mp3. If you have w95, then that shouldn't be any problem.... Cheers, Lars ###### From: Linda Stead Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:02:50 -0700 Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 18 Message-ID: <35C2855A.21AE@jeffnet.org> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35bb85be.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgh29$hia$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bbce15.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35BBD47A.3205@geocities.com> <35bbd96d.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35bc036d.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jeffnet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter.cosy.sbg.ac.at!news.cs.utwente.nl!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!not-for-mail Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Trish wrote in message <6pgq9h$56g$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > > > >Oh my God. I'm sorry Zac. I can't even comment. I'm completely > >speechless. Well .. no, not speechless, but I've had enough. I'll try > >refrain from any further comments. I've been in enough battles, and I > >grow weary of it. > > > > You lost me on this one.... > > Lars It's just funny how far a thread can get off course after only a few posts . . . ls ###### From: Linda Stead Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:15:01 -0700 Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 26 Message-ID: <35C28835.14A6@jeffnet.org> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: jeffnet.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news2.ais.net!jamie!ais.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!not-for-mail Peter Fellows wrote: > > Many times when we "leave" the physical body we seem to have a second > body. Occultists have given this second body many names (astral, etheric, > subtle, light, energy, star, spirit, soul). But, as you have more and more > experiences out of body, you begin to wonder if the real situation is as > simple as that. > I tend to agree with all that you said in your statement about "the" second body but I also had a very interesting experience . . . I was working with a psychic woman who was teaching me to see auras among other things. As I sat across from her in a deep meditative state and watched her aura which was almost like white/blue fire all around her, I also saw on the wall behind her a person-shaped shadow. It was standing about 2 or 3 feet away from her and floated back and forth a bit. There was no one else in the small room and we were both sitting on the floor. After we came back to regular consciousness I asked her about what I'd seen. She indicated that it was her second body. I knew instinctively that this was true. It seemed quite real as did the beautiful aura around her. I am a very down to earth person and not given to hallucinations. I still see auras given the right lighting and meditative state though none so far have compared to hers. with smiles, linda ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35C28835.14A6@jeffnet.org> Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 22:08:31 +0200 Lines: 26 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p3.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p3.telia.com Message-ID: <35cb5edc.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!newsfeed2.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p3.telia.com Linda Stead wrote in message <35C28835.14A6@jeffnet.org>... > >I was working with a psychic woman who was teaching me to see auras >among other things. As I sat across from her in a deep meditative state >and watched her aura which was almost like white/blue fire all around >her, I also saw on the wall behind her a person-shaped shadow. It was >standing about 2 or 3 feet away from her and floated back and forth a >bit. There was no one else in the small room and we were both sitting >on the floor. After we came back to regular consciousness I asked her >about what I'd seen. She indicated that it was her second body. I knew >instinctively that this was true. It seemed quite real as did the >beautiful aura around her. I am a very down to earth person and not >given to hallucinations. I still see auras given the right lighting and >meditative state though none so far have compared to hers. > Interesting... Could you also include how the rest of us should proceed in other to see auras....? Lars ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The Nature of the Second Body Date: Sun, 09 Aug 1998 00:57:50 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 26 Message-ID: <35ccf2de.9520980@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <6pflqm$g3a$1@camel25.mindspring.com> <35C28835.14A6@jeffnet.org> <35cb5edc.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-1.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.melbpc.org.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail >Linda Stead wrote in message <35C28835.14A6@jeffnet.org>... >>I was working with a psychic woman who was teaching me to see auras >>among other things. As I sat across from her in a deep meditative state >>and watched her aura which was almost like white/blue fire all around >>her, I also saw on the wall behind her a person-shaped shadow. It was >>standing about 2 or 3 feet away from her and floated back and forth a >>bit. There was no one else in the small room and we were both sitting >>on the floor. After we came back to regular consciousness I asked her >>about what I'd seen. She indicated that it was her second body. < snip > If she was out of her physical body then that may have been correct, however in many cases the shadow of light behind a person is generally one, or more, of their spirit guides or helpers. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/