Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: do u have to be asleep? From: mbosma@wkpowerlink.com (abosma) Organization: kmi X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.175.168.38 Message-ID: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:45:07 -0800 X-Trace: 24 Jun 1998 11:45:07 -0800, 199.175.168.38 Lines: 3 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!news.cs.utwente.nl!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!howland.erols.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.vphos.net!199.175.168.38 just wondering if you have to be asleep to have an OBE, or are you conscious during the experience. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: otep4500@aol.com (OTep4500) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Lines: 3 Message-ID: <1998062419030400.PAA16066@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jun 1998 19:03:04 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> Like a lot of people, my OBE's happen in that hypnagogic "twilight" state just *before* falling sleep. The only exception is when I find myself in a lucid dream and launch an OBE from there. - Leslie ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!europa.clark.net!194.162.162.196!newsfeed.nacamar.de!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:29:41 GMT Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 41 Message-ID: <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: usern896.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 >abosma wrote in message <35914933.0@news.vphos.net>... >>just wondering if you have to be asleep to have an OBE, or are you >>conscious during the experience. >> Lars wrote: >Your body should be asleep, >but you are still conscious.. Sorry to contradict your confident statement on this, Lars, but this is not true. My recent 'first' OBE occurred as I was walking around the house, but it didn't seem to be my my house, generating some newsgroup discussion about being 'partially stuck' inside the physical body. I was drowsy, but definitely awake. I remember the same thing happening at least three times previously, now I know what it was. On two of these occasions, I woke my husband, who the following day, asked me why I was muttering on about "Where am I?" and "Is this really our house?" in the middle of the night. So you can have OOBEs when your body is awake, although your mind may be clouded. The reports of OOBEs and NDEs prove that your body and mind can both be awake, albeit sedated, anaethesised or unconscious from pain. I am now frequently having Projection experiences straight from meditation, as when I was 'seen' as a flash of light passing through Tennessee. That one was related to remote viewing. Yesterday I had one during healing, which the healer was very aware of. My body is definitely awake and so is my mind, at these times, as I can 'snap out of it' instantly if uncomfortably, if necessary. These, for me, are the most interesting and powerful variety (at the moment! Things change fast!). But I am also having projections and OOBEs from lucid dreams, and also both from an 'edge of sleep' state and from a WILD (waking initiated lucid dream) state. My body is apparently asleep but my mind is either conscious or dreaming. So far, I have personally identified six (perhaps seven) states of consciousness falling under the 'out-of-body' heading. I am certain that there are many more. They do overlap, and yet there are striking differences between them. Did someone say that the Monroe Institute have numerically classified them? There are no rules, Lars, only experience. All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:42:48 +0200 Lines: 12 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p13.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p13.telia.com Message-ID: <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p13.telia.com abosma wrote in message <35914933.0@news.vphos.net>... >just wondering if you have to be asleep to have an OBE, or are you >conscious during the experience. > Your body should be asleep, but you are still conscious.. Regards, Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 From: 7@newsguy.com (7) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 00:11:42 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 11 Message-ID: <3592951b.3645187@enews.newsguy.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-373.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:29:41 GMT, hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > I am now frequently having Projection experiences straight from >meditation, as when I was 'seen' as a flash of light passing through >Tennessee. That one was related to remote viewing. Next time you pass through Tennessee stop by and maybe you can help me have my first OOBE. :) 7 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!howland.erols.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: 25 Jun 1998 00:33:50 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 23 Message-ID: <6ms5te$o6k@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-43.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jun 24 7:33:50 PM CDT 1998 In <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> mbosma@wkpowerlink.com (abosma) writes: > >just wondering if you have to be asleep to have an OBE, or are you >conscious during the experience. Usually conscious - but reclined. OBEs have been experienced in virtually every state - from walking, jogging, partying (blackmore), giving speaches, celebrating mass, twirling in circles, getting stabbed, having a heart attack, etc. Many religious groups disagree with each other as to whether one should perform meditation while sitting up (a more refined discipline) or lying down (so as not to hurt one's self should the practitioner become unconscious and fall over). Personally, I think lying down is best - but that's just because I'm use to doing it that way and too lazy to change my ways. Someday I would like to do it while sitting up without any back support because I think this results in a less cluttered experience - less dreamlike. Bart ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 02:13:46 +0200 Lines: 34 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t5o204p15.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t5o204p15.telia.com Message-ID: <359196e8.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t5o204p15.telia.com Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com>... >>Lars wrote: >>Your body should be asleep, >>but you are still conscious.. > > Sorry to contradict your confident statement on this, Lars, but >this is not true. >All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. It is good that you share your opinions on this issue Julia, but I said should, and I still mean it.. I didn't say it was impossible to do it while your body is awake, this is a power of the mind and when you can do it when your body are asleep, then it is possible to do it while fully awake too. But your brain is more active when your body is asleep, so it is more easy to do it then. I have to agree that my statement may be misinterpreted, it is of course possible to do both. I think your body is still awake during Remote Viewing... But we have various degree of Astral Projection, sometimes we are connected with our body through a cord. Other times do we send the information in packets.. And the most dangerous and rare is having your whole soul leaving your body. Think you physical body must be dead or asleep to do that... Regards, Lars ###### From: "R. Lee Swaim" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:46:32 -0500 Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 46 Message-ID: <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: sphynxx@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust51.tnt1.corpus-christi.tx.da.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!la-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!not-for-mail > There are no rules, Lars, only experience. > All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. It's commentaries like yours, Julia, that helps me to keep an open perspective on this phenomena. I have discussed various aspects of OBE with people and I myself often tend to follow along predictable lines. I do this whether I want to or not, and in reality want to I do not, because I realize that experience varies and thus the definitions that go along with them. I am a creature of habit and convention, and of my own experience, and as much as I try to avoid it, my discussion on OBE follows along the lines of my own experience. Years ago, I realized this. That it is impossible to truly discuss meaningfully what had happened to me in OBE's because the explanations were linear approaches to multi-dimensional phenom. More importantly, I knew that although I had glimpsed a more valid aspect of "truth", I realized even further no individual could contain truth and answer all the questions. Everyone has a different contribution. We all bring something to the table. I found it best to observe others contributions from afar until my personal experience validated them. Until I get that personal validation, I cannnot hold any belief as a truth for me. Then it only becomes my truth. I then adopted what is typically my approach. To attempt to help others to get out, to OBE for themselves, then let them make their own interpretations and explanations for it according to their own life elements and input variables. I tend to take this too far, have not found the balance I need, and thus do not regularly post my opinions. I get longwinded! But........ Lars did what I often wish I could do. Voice my opinion. I have a frail ego I guess. Lars is up to the challenge. I will simply continue to observe and make contributions when I can. I would have made the same statement as Lars, that the physical body needed to be asleep for OBE to be possible, because that has always been my experience. That is my truth, but is not necessarily the truth of others. It is so important to keep that in perspective. There has been a good steady bunch of regulars such as yourselves that give me a safety valve where I needed it the most, on the subject of OBE. For years, I never saw anything other than obscure books that would present studies of OBE phenom. from an objective vantagepoint. I thought with my OBE experience that I was truly an outcast. I was to hide what had happened to me and take it to the grave for fear of ridicule. With people such as yourselves, I realize I am not alone in the quest, and that gives me the strength, a second wind, to go on. I just love all the possibilities. ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 08:35:35 GMT Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 39 Message-ID: <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: userm425.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.72.7.126!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail "R. Lee Swaim" wrote: Snip) I then adopted what is typically my approach. To attempt to help others >to get out, to OBE for themselves, then let them make their own >interpretations and explanations for it according to their own life >elements and input variables. I tend to take this too far, have not >found the balance I need, and thus do not regularly post my opinions. > I get longwinded! But........ > Lars did what I often wish I could do. Voice my opinion. I have a frail >ego I guess. Lars is up to the challenge. I will simply continue to >observe and make contributions when I can. snip) > There has been a good steady bunch of regulars such as yourselves that >give me a safety valve where I needed it the most, on the subject of >OBE. For years, I never saw anything other than obscure books that would >present studies of OBE phenom. from an objective vantagepoint. I thought >with my OBE experience that I was truly an outcast. I was to hide what >had happened to me and take it to the grave for fear of ridicule. With >people such as yourselves, I realize I am not alone in the quest, and >that gives me the strength, a second wind, to go on. > I just love all the possibilities. Good for you. We all risk our delicate egos by daring to post (yes you, too, Dick Silk!) but happily, this is (99% of the time) the kindest place to post I have yet discovered (having just been flamed for contributing to a group discussing recreating historical costumes, of all things, I know the benefits of this one!). I am realising that it is important to post your thoughts, questions and experiences. Tangled though they may be in your mind, writing them down for others to read unravels the knots and twists. Others can then contribute important threads to the pattern. We are all weaving the fabric of space and time, and we all need help, so vast is our task. Thiat is the nature of the human grid. So do continue to post, please. It's good to hear from other people who are actually achieving the things we are all trying to reach. Plus, I am certain that someone is out there reading this newsgroup and fulfilling our wishes... So post away! All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. ###### From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 23:45:41 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 56 Message-ID: <6nevjs$fie$1@news-1.news.gte.net> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust201.tnt1.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D50F9503099BCD8849C58491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.giganews.com!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail R. Lee Swaim wrote: > > There are no rules, Lars, only experience. > > All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. > > It's commentaries like yours, Julia, that helps me to keep an open > perspective on this phenomena. I have discussed various aspects of OBE > with people and I myself often tend to follow along predictable lines. I > do this whether I want to or not, and in reality want to I do not, > because I realize that experience varies and thus the definitions that > go along with them. > I am a creature of habit and convention, and of my own experience, and > as much as I try to avoid it, my discussion on OBE follows along the > lines of my own experience. > Years ago, I realized this. That it is impossible to truly discuss > meaningfully what had happened to me in OBE's because the explanations > were linear approaches to multi-dimensional phenom. More importantly, I > knew that although I had glimpsed a more valid aspect of "truth", I > realized even further no individual could contain truth and answer all > the questions. Everyone has a different contribution. We all bring > something to the table. I found it best to observe others contributions > from afar until my personal experience validated them. Until I get that > personal validation, I cannnot hold any belief as a truth for me. Then > it only becomes my truth. > I then adopted what is typically my approach. To attempt to help others > to get out, to OBE for themselves, then let them make their own > interpretations and explanations for it according to their own life > elements and input variables. I tend to take this too far, have not > found the balance I need, and thus do not regularly post my opinions. > I get longwinded! But........ > Lars did what I often wish I could do. Voice my opinion. I have a frail > ego I guess. Lars is up to the challenge. I will simply continue to > observe and make contributions when I can. > I would have made the same statement as Lars, that the physical body > needed to be asleep for OBE to be possible, because that has always been > my experience. That is my truth, but is not necessarily the truth of > others. It is so important to keep that in perspective. > > There has been a good steady bunch of regulars such as yourselves that > give me a safety valve where I needed it the most, on the subject of > OBE. For years, I never saw anything other than obscure books that would > present studies of OBE phenom. from an objective vantagepoint. I thought > with my OBE experience that I was truly an outcast. I was to hide what > had happened to me and take it to the grave for fear of ridicule. With > people such as yourselves, I realize I am not alone in the quest, and > that gives me the strength, a second wind, to go on. > I just love all the possibilities. Frail ego or not, the above post seems presented by a thoughtful, introspective person with quite a bit to offer. Why don't you post a little more often, and allow us all to learn from you as well? Trish ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: 02 Jul 1998 00:53:29 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: > this is (99% of the time) the > kindest place to post I have yet discovered I have to second that. Bar SH or the a.p crowd this group has the lowes flame count I have ever seen. > (having just been flamed > for contributing to a group discussing recreating historical costumes, > of all things, I know the benefits of this one!). Ah another one interested in historical costumes. Was that [alt/rec].history.costuming? I can't remember flaming in either of them, just too much about periods I was not interested in. > Plus, I am certain that someone is out there reading this newsgroup > and fulfilling our wishes... So post away! www.prayer-office.god.heaven? -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 07:36:50 GMT Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 13 Message-ID: <359b3814.904614@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: userl825.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail wrote: >Ah another one interested in historical costumes. Was that >[alt/rec].history.costuming? I can't remember flaming in either of >them, just too much about periods I was not interested in. It was. So which periods do you like? >> Plus, I am certain that someone is out there reading this newsgroup >> and fulfilling our wishes... So post away! > >www.prayer-office.god.heaven? > Ha ha! That would really be distorting the barriers of unreality! JHM ###### From: J L Williams Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:04:36 +0100 Message-ID: <1998070210043675767@zetnet.co.uk> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <6nevjs$fie$1@news-1.news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Lines: 41 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!woodstock.news.demon.net!demon!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk!not-for-mail The message <6nevjs$fie$1@news-1.news.gte.net> from Trish Pike contains these words: > R. Lee Swaim wrote: > > > There are no rules, Lars, only experience. > > > All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. > > > > It's commentaries like yours, Julia, that helps me to keep an open > > perspective on this phenomena. I have discussed various aspects of OBE > people such as yourselves, I realize I am not alone in the quest, and > > that gives me the strength, a second wind, to go on. > > I just love all the possibilities. > Frail ego or not, the above post seems presented by a thoughtful, introspective > person with quite a bit to offer. Why don't you post a little more often, and > allow us all to learn from you as well? Jim (the mainly lurking learner) here. Yes please :-) I wish more would give accounts of how they get where they are go. How they decide what to do and why. There have been some very interesting accounts since all the dross of a certain poster of the last couple of weeks has been cleared from the in-tray :-) Please post more :-) Jim > Trish ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 03:32:12 +0200 Lines: 24 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p46.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p46.telia.com Message-ID: <359c342a.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-nyc.telia.net!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p46.telia.com Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com>... > So do continue to post, please. It's good to hear from other people >who are actually achieving the things we are all trying to reach. > Plus, I am certain that someone is out there reading this newsgroup >and fulfilling our wishes... So post away! > All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. > I also enjoy your posts Swaim... They are few, but good.... Anyway, I know I respond a lot to this newsgroup... I'm not a lurker, have never been one.... Just respond if there is someone I want to say or if I have a question. But I have also a time problem, a problem that makes it impossible for me to respond to everything I want... So you might say I'm forced to lurk sometimes... Back to lurkmode, Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: 04 Jul 1998 15:21:35 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> <359b3814.904614@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 > wrote: > >Ah another one interested in historical costumes. Was that > >[alt/rec].history.costuming? I can't remember flaming in either of > >them, just too much about periods I was not interested in. > > It was. So which periods do you like? Late Medieval, Renaissance, up to about mid 18th cent (both sexes), victorian (only womens, mens had become boring stuff by then). I found that [alt/rec].history.costuming was mainly American Civil War (a lot of that military), and lots of WW I / WW II, also a bit of buckskins . At least for the month I peeked into them. I suppose that is the stuff most reenactors actually do. The nearest to my interest were the (very) few English Civil War ones. > >www.prayer-office.god.heaven? > > > Ha ha! That would really be distorting the barriers of unreality! For heavens computerisation situation see: http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/Jokes_and_Fun/BG_goes_to_Heaven -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### computerisation situation moved to: http://neil.franklin.ch/Jokes_and_Fun/BG_goes_to_Heaven home page generally moded to: http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 23:31:14 GMT Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 8 Message-ID: <359eba61.55268940@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> <359b3814.904614@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: userm632.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: >Late Medieval, Renaissance, up to about mid 18th cent (both sexes), >victorian (only womens, mens had become boring stuff by then). Ha! Same preferences as me! Do you sew them or just wish for them? I used to do the dances... I made a few of the outfits.... If we OBE in time we can actually wear them... JHM ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: 05 Jul 1998 20:20:46 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 49 Message-ID: References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> <359b3814.904614@news.dial.pipex.com> <359eba61.55268940@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: > Neil Franklin wrote: > >Late Medieval, Renaissance, up to about mid 18th cent (both sexes), > >victorian (only womens, mens had become boring stuff by then). > > Ha! Same preferences as me! Same prefences in OBEing and history. Perhaps we are soultwins? :-) :-) > Do you sew them or just wish for them? At the moment just wishing. I have had an interest in history since childhood, discovered an interest in costume a few years ago, looked at them in museums (the one in Bath is excellent). As for making, that would really require some costume group to get involved with, to wear them. Unfortunately finding such has eluded me so far. Since getting on Web and Usenet I have been following up random paths but the nearest I have found is 2 guys interested in the same (also not active at the moment). And one group that does 1470..1490 Burgundy 100 miles away, which we may be visiting at the end of this month. > If we OBE in time we can actually wear them... Yet annother reason for me to get on with OBEing. Wearing interesting costume in the astral. Experience the past. Perhaps finding previous incarnations. Then all the normal reasons. The list keeps getting longer and longer. Now if I could just stop my thoughts wandering off into daydreams* and then sleep while trying to relax into the trance state I may stand a chance to go OBE. *the result of an very active imagination, since childhood, from being an foreigner here and not having much to do with other children. Complete introvert. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 21:23:09 GMT Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 77 Message-ID: <359fec2c.919005@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> <359b3814.904614@news.dial.pipex.com> <359eba61.55268940@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: userp183.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.maz.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!btnet-peer!btnet!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail wrote: >Same prefences in OBEing and history. Perhaps we are soultwins? :-) :-) Oh, no, not another one... That means I have soulquads :-) >I have had an interest in history since childhood, discovered an >interest in costume a few years ago, looked at them in museums (the >one in Bath is excellent). It certainly is. > >As for making, that would really require some costume group to get >involved with, to wear them. Unfortunately finding such has eluded me >so far. You dance? Then you could explore Renaissance, Baroque and Playford Dance groups. Joy, oh, joy. The costume is integral to the system of movement. All groups have annual Balls in various towns (I now assume you are in the UK. My husband dresses in a replica of a 1760s outfit (including tricorn hat) for Morris dancing. Very sexy. In fact, oh, what the hell... This is what I got flamed for in alt.history.costume: A friend of mine had a Renaissance dance troupe called 'Passamezzo', recreating the very complex historical courtly dances to music of the time. They wore a series of magnificent and accurate costumes mostly made by my friend. Hand sewn, fully corsetted, jewelled and ruffed, authentic materials, each one worth a month's salary. The corsetting was integral to performing the correct movements for the dance period. For her wedding my friend wore a replica of Queen Elizabeth 1's Coronation gown - stupendous! Once they learned a new dance for their 'Elizabethan' set, called the 'La Volta', which was considered very shocking at the time. A sketch survives of Elizabeth dancing it, and it was just as outrageous as the Waltz was in early Victorian times "Men putting their arms around women in public! Disgraceful!". The troupe practise in modern clothing, to protect the costumes. They agreed that the dance had been banned in many European Courts because in the 'galliarde' at the high point of the dance, the gentleman lifts the lady by gripping her waist with his hands and 'jumping' her up on his knee high into the air. Her full skirts (falling from the farthingale worn very low on the hips at this time) would leap up into the air, displaying her stockinged legs and lack of underwear. Very shocking! They explained this to their packed audience in an ancient church on the first public performance of the dance. The amused audience settled down to watch. When they reached the point of the galliarde, the four men gripped the bases of the ladies' rigid boned and wooden- stomachered corsets and hoisted them up onto their knees. The voluminous but short skirts duly flew up, and so, simultaneously, did the breasts of all four women, popping magnificently out over the bodices and into the gentlemen's beards as a splendid finale. Audience and troupe fell apart in uproarious laughter as the ladies 'shoehorned' their bosoms back in again! They only danced the 'La Volta' for 'private functions' after that! >Yet annother reason for me to get on with OBEing. Wearing interesting >costume in the astral. Experience the past. Perhaps finding previous >incarnations. Then all the normal reasons. The list keeps getting >longer and longer. >>Now if I could just stop my thoughts wandering off into daydreams* and >then sleep while trying to relax into the trance state I may stand a >chance to go OBE. >>*the result of an very active imagination, since childhood, from being >an foreigner here and not having much to do with other children. >Complete introvert. Except for wanting to dress up in flamboyant costumes and appear in public, that is... Seriously, try to target your daydreams instead of reprimanding them. All my best astral trips have been aimed at a specific purpose. Do your research into the clothing of a particular era. If you want to wear the costume, close your eyes and imagine the outfit you'd wear for, say, the Assembly Room Ball in Bath in 1766. Look around you and see what you can see.... That is an Astral Projection. It works for me! All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: do u have to be asleep? Date: 06 Jul 1998 22:35:48 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: <35914933.0@news.vphos.net> <35915650.0@d2o204.telia.com> <35916a33.58887619@news.dial.pipex.com> <3599B0E4.2912@earthlink.net> <3599f164.944545@news.dial.pipex.com> <359b3814.904614@news.dial.pipex.com> <359eba61.55268940@news.dial.pipex.com> <359fec2c.919005@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: > wrote: > >As for making, that would really require some costume group to get > >involved with, to wear them. Unfortunately finding such has eluded me > >so far. > You dance? Then you could explore Renaissance, Baroque and Playford > Dance groups. Joy, oh, joy. Actually I am not a dancer (that requires 2 (or more for such dances) and I am only 1) :-(. I am not just introvert but also shy (when not hiding behind a computer). > movement. All groups have annual Balls in various towns (I now assume > you are in the UK. Unfortunately not. As the .ch in my mail adress shows I am in Switzerland. The nearest thing here would be Volkstanz and Trachtengruppe. These are based on 17th/18th century folk dance and costume. But mangled by 19th century german Romanticism the same way the popular view of the middles ages were mangled by the victorians. > In fact, oh, what the hell... This is what I got flamed for in > alt.history.costume: LOL. Great story. I took a few minutes to recover. That flamer must be an serious looser. Sex is period, as the dance shows. > >>Now if I could just stop my thoughts wandering off into daydreams* and > >then sleep while trying to relax into the trance state I may stand a > >chance to go OBE. > >>*the result of an very active imagination, since childhood, from being > >an foreigner here and not having much to do with other children. > > >Complete introvert. > Except for wanting to dress up in flamboyant costumes and appear in > public, that is... Or more likely half-public of a few friends doing it. And anyway the desire for the nice stuff overpowers it. > Seriously, try to target your daydreams instead of reprimanding > them. All my best astral trips have been aimed at a specific purpose. > Do your research into the clothing of a particular era. If you want to > wear the costume, close your eyes and imagine the outfit you'd wear > for, say, the Assembly Room Ball in Bath in 1766. Look around you and > see what you can see.... That is an Astral Projection. It works for > me! Daydream = dream = AP. Yes. But it doesn't make an good Astral/OBE time machine to go and see what it was really like then (and not just what we can read in documents about then). Also that won't help for trying to do astral travel in the real world. Or for developing psychic abilities. (I told you the list was long :-)). -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you