[beginning of this thread was while I was on holiday] ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:10:17 +0200 Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p38.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p38.telia.com Message-ID: <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p38.telia.com GALLIANOJ wrote in message <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com>... >I agree, I dont believe you can learn astral projection in a week...especially >if it has never happened to you before. While I do feel that Robert Monroe is >an authentic astral traveler >and a very inspired man, I do however believe that The Monroe Inst.. is really >milking the cow now. And while the products may be impressive and the >catalogue well constructed, the principle that Robert Monroe was trying to >share is "Industry" now. I, personally, didn't have a good experience with >communicating with them. >Jean > His Hemi sync tapes really make our brain more active, and I think that his tapes really help. But they are quite expensive.... OBE is about staying conscious into the REM-stage. I guess you can do that faster with Hemi Sync tapes and the sound can keep you form falling asleep... If you take some B-vitamins too, then it should be that difficult. So I think that learning it in a week might be possible.... Regards, Lars ###### From: "Shane" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:55:14 +1000 Lines: 44 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.63.147 Message-ID: <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!139.130.250.2!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.63.147 Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com>... >OBE is about staying conscious into the REM-stage. >I guess you can do that faster with Hemi Sync tapes and the >sound can keep you form falling asleep... >If you take some B-vitamins too, then it should be that difficult. I'd have to disagree with that above statement. OBE's are not about staying conscious into REM stage sleep. Although there is not a great deal of research into it, what research there is shows that, whilst lucid dreams typically occur during REM whereas OBE's do not. If OBE's always occurred during REM then it would be fairly logical to argue that OBE's are nothing more than lucid dreams and, therefore are merely a product of people's imagination. Although you can use lucid dreams as a springboard for launching into an OBE, OBE's themselves are more about losing conscious awareness of the physical body so that you can then consciously focus on and manipulate your non-physical body / bodies. This could either happen accidently or delibrately. Shane ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:20:18 +0200 Lines: 126 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p13.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p13.telia.com Message-ID: <3591510b.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p13.telia.com Shane wrote in message <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33>... >Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com>... > >>OBE is about staying conscious into the REM-stage. >>I guess you can do that faster with Hemi Sync tapes and the >>sound can keep you form falling asleep... >>If you take some B-vitamins too, then it should be that difficult. > >I'd have to disagree with that above statement. OBE's are not about >staying conscious into REM stage sleep. Although there is not a >great deal of research into it, what research there is shows that, >whilst lucid dreams typically occur during REM whereas OBE's do not. >If OBE's always occurred during REM then it would be fairly logical >to argue that OBE's are nothing more than lucid dreams and, >therefore are merely a product of people's imagination. > >Although you can use lucid dreams as a springboard for launching >into an OBE, OBE's themselves are more about losing conscious >awareness of the physical body so that you can then consciously >focus on and manipulate your non-physical body / bodies. This could >either happen accidentally or deliberately. > >Shane > Hi Shane, I'd have again to disagree with you. I know I have support on this group, so I searched dejanews for an old post. It was a specific post I was trying to find. And could remember few words from the post. Entered the newsgroup alt.out-of-body and searched on "REM hours first complain". Got exactly one post as a hit. ;) It was discussed under the thread "To Lars And Others" ------------------- Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > There never goes a day by that I don't think of how it would be like > to have an OBE. I try to imagine how it will be, but it is difficult.. > I guess I will feel very liberated and free. And happy :)> > But I don't think I will feel fear. Most people feel fear for something that > they know little about. > Lars Lars, I see you post a bunch and I suspect if you stay at it you will attain the goal of projection. When I started, it took me about a month of hard effort, and for me the key was not giving up. It would take up to 3-4 hours of lying there waiting for something to happen before I even got close. I have read of some people who complain about no results after 5 minutes of effort, literally. That is not you, I can tell, and some people take longer than others, we are all individuals on this and definitions vary so much on the simplest of experience related to OBE ( such as the vibration) that it is hard to really know what to expect, what to read, or who to listen to. I finally got out and formed my own conclusion that it was the transition to REM that I was after as a take-off point. I would pass down into stage 1 and 2 sleep, alpha and broad band alpha, including what is called the hynagogic with much imagery and then finally the auditory and visual cues for REM would tell me OBE was possible. I have had those cues sitting in a chair and within minutes of lying down, was out. That is rare, and even now takes effort. Sorry for being for long winded, I have rarely posted in the last several years because I have a tendency to go on and on. The point I wanted to make before I got distracted is that you are right, there is NO need to have fear. Fear is caused by ignorance (meant in the true definition of the word), which is simple lack of knowledge. try to go forth with the best knowledge you can, and then trust in your own intuition rather than the beliefs of others. I have never had a negative experience while out, never met a negative entity. And I have never,never,never been afraid. Even while standing by a window about to leap out to fly away I was never afraid. I was liberated instead. The liberation produced by calculated efforts to project coupled with positive energy focus propels me in a way I can never experience on this "plane". ------------------- I have started reading a great book about the nature behind dreaming. I learned some things today. Will share what I find important. When you fall asleep you first enter stage 1, then stage 2 and then stage 3 and 4, then you enter stage 3 again, then 2, 1 and then you enter your first REM. This will normally take 90 minutes, depending on what you have learned that day, if you have been physically active and how many B-vitamins you have eaten.... Your physical body is paralyzed during REM-sleep. Your astral body is free to leave.... This is why sleep walking doesn't happen in REM-sleep. But keep in mind that much of what is possible during OBE is also possible during dreams/lucid dreams. You may find other dreamers in a lucid dream and share a dream. And you travel into the future in a lucid dream. This can also happen in a more uncontrolled way in a normal dream. And much of peoples OBE have a lot imagination in them.... The difference between a lucid dream and an OBE isn't huge. You can easily go from a lucid dream to and OBE and from an OBE to an lucid dream. There is being done some research on this. Think The Lucidity Institute is most active... www.lucidity.com Think you need more facts to convince me.... Regards, Lars ###### From: "mpfc" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 21:49:20 -0400 Lines: 37 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-7" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: chaosnet13.idirect.com Message-ID: <3591aea7.0@diana.idirect.com> Organization: "Usenet User" Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!island.idirect.com!diana.idirect.com!chaosnet13.idirect.com Shane wrote in message +ADw-359087e7.0+AEA-139.134.5.33+AD4-... +AD4-Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message +ADw-358fb6e7.0+AEA-d2o204.telia.com+AD4-... +AD4-I'd have to disagree with that above statement. OBE's are not about +AD4-staying conscious into REM stage sleep. Although there is not a +AD4-great deal of research into it, what research there is shows that, +AD4-whilst lucid dreams typically occur during REM whereas OBE's do not. +AD4-If OBE's always occurred during REM then it would be fairly logical +AD4-to argue that OBE's are nothing more than lucid dreams and, +AD4-therefore are merely a product of people's imagination. Im not sure about this REM stuff in terms of dreaming... according to dream researchers REM occurs around 2 to 3 hours into sleep and then dreaming begins... well.. I don't subscribe to that at all... I have started dreaming within 5 minutes of closing my eyes.. particularly lucid dreaming... +AD4-Although you can use lucid dreams as a springboard for launching +AD4-into an OBE, OBE's themselves are more about losing conscious +AD4-awareness of the physical body so that you can then consciously +AD4-focus on and manipulate your non-physical body / bodies. This could +AD4-either happen accidently or delibrately. +AD4- +AD4-Shane +AD4- I agree with you and think that lucid dreams can be one end of a contiuum that can lead to an OBE.. at least thats the angle I am working on in trying to go out-of-body.. I am pretty sure though, that lucid dreams are not imagination, at least not the ones that I have experienced.. I mean.. waking up in your own dream and realizing you are inside that dream and can do what you want to do, go where you want to with full conscious realization of what is occuring is much more than merely imagination ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:04:48 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 47 Message-ID: <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust52.tnt3.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D50C831008DBCDDD41908491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Shane wrote: > Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com>... > > >OBE is about staying conscious into the REM-stage. > >I guess you can do that faster with Hemi Sync tapes and the > >sound can keep you form falling asleep... > >If you take some B-vitamins too, then it should be that difficult. > > I'd have to disagree with that above statement. OBE's are not about > staying conscious into REM stage sleep. Although there is not a > great deal of research into it, what research there is shows that, > whilst lucid dreams typically occur during REM whereas OBE's do not. > If OBE's always occurred during REM then it would be fairly logical > to argue that OBE's are nothing more than lucid dreams and, > therefore are merely a product of people's imagination. > > Although you can use lucid dreams as a springboard for launching > into an OBE, OBE's themselves are more about losing conscious > awareness of the physical body so that you can then consciously > focus on and manipulate your non-physical body / bodies. This could > either happen accidently or delibrately. > > Shane Shane, I have to agree with you on this one. The Lucidity Institute has found that lucid dreams occur in REM sleep .. mostly 90 minutes into sleep and then with more frequency throughout the night. All of my OBEs have happened at the onset of sleep .. actually, I've never had one at a different time. To my knowledge, no one has ever determined a lucid dream to take place during non-REM sleep. This is not stating that an OBE can't occur during REM. Many do. But I believe if we are able to supress REM sleep while having an OBE, we'd be more likely to find the source behind the experience, without interference. Trish ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:13:54 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 70 Message-ID: <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust98.tnt3.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D50C854207DCCD8954CE8491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > How do you know that your eyes aren't moving while you are outside your > own body? > Do you have any research material on this? Well, Lars, I don't. I'm basing this solely on my experiences alone because mostof the people I've spoken with don't have OBEs at the onset of sleep. They have them later on into the night or early morning. I figure it this way .... They've done quite a bit of research (check out the Lucidity Institute) on REM sleep. And so far, I haven't come across anything that states contrary to the fact that the REM stage of sleep generally occurs after approximately 90 minutes of sleep (gaining in frequency throughout the night). The only time we will fall into REM sleep at the onset of sleep is if we have been deprived of sleep the night before. So .. If my OBEs occur at the onset of sleep, and I haven't been deprived of sleep the night before, then I can generally assume that the OBE is not starting during REM sleep. REM can begin sometime during the OBE though .. and for me, it usually does. I can say there is quite a bit of difference between an OBE with REM and one without. If you'd like, I can note them for you ... but take into consideration that these are my experiences only, and others may have contrary and justified beliefs. I think (hope) that if there were some way to supress REM sleep for even a short while .. I'd be able to examine the OBE environment in more detail, without dream images floating in, and undermining my concentration and attention. Supressing REM can be very dangerous though. Even though, I'd like to give it a shot. At one point I believed that only OBEs without REM were true OBEs. Any type of OBE that involved a dream was merely a lucid dream. Thanks to a few others in the newsgroup (especially Bart - who has some fantastic ideas) I've learned that my initial conclusion was wrong. > The thing we want to suppress is out subconscious need to let our > imagination run free... > I agree with you entirely here Lars. But I think it's a matter of opinion and taste. Some people love to just run free with an OBE. And there's a lot to be learned by just letting go. Scientific minded people gain a more technical knowledge by pulling the imagination together and supressing this need. It all depends on what you're looking for. Trish capuchin@gte.net silencexx@hotmail.com "There's never a problem, without a gift for you in it's hands ..." Richard Bach ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <3591aea7.0@diana.idirect.com> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:31:51 +0200 Lines: 37 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p22.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p22.telia.com Message-ID: <35925ef1.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p22.telia.com mpfc wrote in message +ADw-3591aea7.0+AEA-diana.idirect.com+AD4-... +AD4-Im not sure about this REM stuff in terms of dreaming... according to dream +AD4-researchers REM occurs around 2 to 3 hours into sleep and then dreaming +AD4-begins... well.. I don't subscribe to that at all... I have started dreaming +AD4-within 5 minutes of closing my eyes.. particularly lucid dreaming... +AD4- Your first REM-sleep happen mostly after 90 minutes. But note that this vary a lot from person to person. I'm taking everything I can't think of that might help me dream more (B-vitamins, chocolate, milk, eggs) and I have experienced a lot of REM-sleep lately. Even the dream book I'm reading says that you might have more REM-sleep with the right amino acid. So it all depends on what you are eating, and if you have learned anything new that day. REM-sleep is important to remember what you have learned. My own studies show that I start dreaming within minutes after I fall asleep. But I also drop down to deep sleep (stage 3 and 4) now and then, but just for 5 minutes or so, I start having REM-sleep after that again. So my nights are mostly REM-sleep. REM (Rapid Eye Movement) is a certain sign on dreaming, your eyes are moving just like they would in the dream... So if you have eye movements, then you are dreaming... Regards, Lars ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:42:04 +0200 Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p22.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t8o204p22.telia.com Message-ID: <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t8o204p22.telia.com Trish Pike wrote in message <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... >This is not stating that an OBE can't occur during REM. Many do. But I >believe if we are able to suppress REM sleep while having an OBE, we'd be >more likely to find the source behind the experience, without >interference. > >Trish > How do you know that your eyes aren't moving while you are outside your own body? Do you have any research material on this? People say they are paralyzed during OBE, this happen in REM-sleep too. But your eyes never rest. It is also said that you inner ear is highly active during REM-sleep. I don't know if it is producing the sound you hear or if it is just guarding.. The thing we want to suppress is out subconscious need to let our imagination run free... Cheers, Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.northeast.verio.net!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 23:37:52 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 76 Message-ID: <6mv4u1$pf7$1@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust135.tnt2.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D50C864116D9CD9E46978491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > I know you will read that most everywhere. But I have done my own research, > not to find out what is _normal_, but to find out how I can have as much REM > sleep as possible. And I seem to enter REM-sleep the second I fall asleep > and then enter down to stage 1, 2, 3 and 4. And then you go from stage 4 > to 3, 2, 1 and then REM. Perhaps for some reason, REM sleep differs on occasion from person to personfor reasons that have not been fully researched. Shortly, I'll be hitting the books and finding out as much as possible, in detail, on the subject. I'd be interested in knowing how you determine your sleep stages. Do you have a machine that monitors it? If so, how did you get it, and how does it work? > The amount of dreaming can be changed... > Most people have to wait at least 90 minutes before they can leave their > body, I don't know how long it takes for you to leave. But fact remains > that it is easiest to leave when you are close to REM. Where has this been stated as a fact and what are the details of the research onthis? Most scientific studies group OBEs with dreams and lucid dreams so I find that hard to be fact and not opinion. Most people out there do not have any type of monitoring device that shows what stage of sleep they are in when they OBE. So I make the assumption on what I've read, and what time during sleep my OBEs occur. > I will not suggest anyone to practice as they go to bed, it is much wiser > sleep 6 hours and then practice... Why? I've only had OBEs as I go to bed. I've never had any OBEs after6 hours of sleep .. ever. For some reason, I'm just not able to. If there are others out there like me, waiting 6 hours would defeat the purpose. > Well, I have never had an OBE so I don't know much about the environment. > But calling suppressing REM dangerous is maybe taking things a bit too > far, but suppressing it in the long run may be bad. Suppressing REM is dangerous. In the short term it can cause sluggishness,lack of attention, and depression, to name a few. In the long term, it has been known to cause death in studies they've done on animals. Not enough is known about the importance of REM. > It might be fun exploring you imagination, and it might be fun checking > out how New York looks like. I will try both. There is nothing more fun than > having full control... I agree. And I think we both may have work to do in researching sleep stages.It'll be fun, and informative at the same time. If I run across anything in my search I'll e-mail you .. and please do the same for me. If you come across any books, please refer them to me as well. > Stay tuned for the recipe for dreaming... Thanks Lars .. I will. : ) Take care, Trish capuchin@gte.net silencexx@hotmail.com P>S> ... I used to live in New York. The city is a great place to visit. I also had a lucid dream one time where I went back for a visit. Great fun. If I could meet you there I'd show you around. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 00:50:21 +0200 Lines: 116 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p1.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p1.telia.com Message-ID: <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p1.telia.com Trish Pike wrote in message <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... >Well, Lars, I don't. I'm basing this solely on my experiences alone because >mostof the people I've spoken with don't have OBEs at the onset of sleep. >They have >them later on into the night or early morning. > >I figure it this way .... >They've done quite a bit of research (check out the Lucidity Institute) on REM >sleep. And so far, I haven't come across anything that states contrary to the >fact that the REM stage of sleep generally occurs after approximately 90 >minutes of sleep (gaining in frequency throughout the night). The only time >we will fall into REM sleep at the onset of sleep is if we have been deprived >of sleep the night before. > I know you will read that most everywhere. But I have done my own research, not to find out what is _normal_, but to find out how I can have as much REM sleep as possible. And I seem to enter REM-sleep the second I fall asleep and then enter down to stage 1, 2, 3 and 4. And then you go from stage 4 to 3, 2, 1 and then REM. But I have a perfect health and I don't do much physical work during the day either, I have stopped growing too (I think, I'm already 183 cm), so I don't have to stay in stage 3 and 4 that much. And the lower I go, the less I dream. So I mostly dream during the whole night (REM). This is because I can, and my brain is getting enough nutrition's too. The amount of dreaming can be changed... Most people have to wait at least 90 minutes before they can leave their body, I don't know how long it takes for you to leave. But fact remains that it is easiest to leave when you are close to REM. I will not suggest anyone to practice as they go to bed, it is much wiser sleep 6 hours and then practice... You will maybe enter REM-sleep again instantly and can leave your body within minutes if you don't fall asleep. Drinking some Coca Cola or Coffee should help on that problem... > >So .. If my OBEs occur at the onset of sleep, and I haven't been deprived of >sleep >the night before, then I can generally assume that the OBE is not starting >during >REM sleep. REM can begin sometime during the OBE though .. and for me, it >usually does. I can say there is quite a bit of difference between an OBE >with >REM and one without. If you'd like, I can note them for you ... but take into >consideration that these are my experiences only, and others may have contrary >and justified beliefs. > >I think (hope) that if there were some way to suppress REM sleep for even a >short >while .. I'd be able to examine the OBE environment in more detail, without >dream >images floating in, and undermining my concentration and attention. >Suppressing >REM can be very dangerous though. Even though, I'd like to give it a shot. > Well, I have never had an OBE so I don't know much about the environment. But calling suppressing REM dangerous is maybe taking things a bit too far, but suppressing it in the long run may be bad. The is being conducting heavy proteinbuilding during REM, so REM is important for learning. But who says that this doesn't happen is a bona fide OBE, I just don't know if the brain is highly active during an OBE. I know it is during REM... I should check out the Monroe institute, maybe I will find the answer there... But suppressing your imagination shouldn't be dangerous... > >At one point I believed that only OBEs without REM were true OBEs. Any type >of OBE that involved a dream was merely a lucid dream. Thanks to a few others >in the newsgroup (especially Bart - who has some fantastic ideas) I've learned >that my initial conclusion was wrong. > >> The thing we want to suppress is out subconscious need to let our >> imagination run free... >> > >I agree with you entirely here Lars. But I think it's a matter of opinion and >taste. >Some people love to just run free with an OBE. And there's a lot to be >learned by just letting go. > >Scientific minded people gain a more technical knowledge by pulling the >imagination together and suppressing this need. > >It all depends on what you're looking for. > It might be fun exploring you imagination, and it might be fun checking out how New York looks like. I will try both. There is nothing more fun than having full control... Stay tuned for the recipe for dreaming... Regards, Lars P.S. Vitamin B17 makes 100% impossible to develop cancer and will kill existing cancer. Vitamin B17 is found in most fruit seeds. For more information check out this site: http://www.canceranswer.com/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.nacamar.de!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:15:28 GMT Organization: UUNET UK server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET UK) Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3593b98c.27648860@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> NNTP-Posting-Host: usern479.uk.uudial.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 "Shane" wrote: >Many studies have been done where the sleepers were allowed to sleep >their normal 8 hours (or whatever) but were woken as soon as REM >started. Then they were allowed to go back to sleep but were woken >again when they started REM'ing again. This process was repeated and >after their night's "sleep", it felt like they hadn't slept at all. >After a few days of this, they started hallucinating ie. they >started dreaming whilst awake. >Sleep deprivation is a known method of torture as nobody can hack it >without either breaking or going psychotic. And, all you people reading this, is why you must be exceptionally kind, patient and gentle to new mothers (and fathers, too, but not for as long...) for at least the first six months of their baby's life. My second baby woke every 45 minutes of the 24hours demanding milk for the first three months of his life. Then every two hours for a month, then every three hours, then at six months old he only woke up once a night and sanity was restored. The chemical imbalance causing 'Baby Blues' is definitely accentuated by sleep deprivation. Be kind to your mothers. All best wishes, Julia. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <3591aea7.0@diana.idirect.com> <3593b2ca.0@139.134.5.33> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:19:01 +0200 Lines: 41 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com Message-ID: <3593e5ac.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p48.telia.com Shane wrote in message <3593b2ca.0@139.134.5.33>... >Normally, the first REM activity occurs around 90 minutes after >falling asleep and REM is the signal that the sleeper is dreaming. A >few people may do it quicker than normal and if you've been deprived >of sleep for a while then you may go straight into REM when you fall >asleep. Although I said there wasn't a great deal of research on REM >and OBE's, there is a lot of research on REM and dreams. Researchers >have found that when a sleeper is woken up during REM a dream was >occurring. When the sleeper was woken during non-REM sleep, a dream >was not occurring, so REM is definitely a necessity for dreaming. > It says in my dream book that dreams can occur in NREM-sleep. But as you go lower in sleep, to stage 1 and 2, do also your eye movement slow down. You will move your eyes less and dream less vivid. You subconscious doesn't go as much wild.... Well, that was all I had to say, you don't need to be in REM to dream. >Lucid dreams are a product of the imagination in the sense that they >have no independent reality outside your own mind. This doesn't >mean that the dream has to be hazy and "dream-like" or that you >can't become conscious during the dream and control the scenery / >actions. It just means that what you're seeing is coming from your >sub-conscious mind. Sleep is an altered state of consciousness and >the sub-conscious mind is much more powerful than the conscious >mind - it's certainly capable of creating vivid images in your mind. >When I said "imagination" I was referring to the sub-conscious mind. > It certainly is! It can handle a whole ocean more of information than what our little conscious mind can... We can barely remember a 7 digit number. What is a shame is that we don't use our subconscious mind as much as we can. We are walking around with vast resources. The trick is to make us of these powers. Cheers, Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:49:14 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6n1fdl$dfq$3@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mv4u1$pf7$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3593f754.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust21.tnt1.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: 550FC11387844D0AC6510413 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > You have more and longer REM the more you sleep. And you fall in REM a lot > faster after 6 hours of sleep. But why can't you leave your body after 6 > hours? > You need to stay up and be a bit active for half an hour before you try. > Do you fall asleep right away, or can't you fall asleep or what? What is the > reason for why you can leave your body? Is it psychological reasons for it? > I have no idea why I can't OBE later into sleep. For the last 4 years I've been trying to induce OBEs after reading up on what had happened naturally to me as a child. During the last year, I've had a success ratio of 2-3 OBEs per month some of which inlude lucid dreams, some of which do not. I wake up several times throughout the night, and I have tried on many occasions to induce the experience during these times, and in the early morning hours. So far I have had no success at all. The only success I have is during the onset of sleep. And I believe my success rate has been very good ... from sporadic success, to 2-3 per month isn't too shabby. I have no idea why I'm not able to have them at other times, but what works, works. Trish ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:52:28 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 46 Message-ID: <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust21.tnt1.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D58FC19309064D0A46D10414 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Shane wrote: > Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com>... > > >Well, I have never had an OBE so I don't know much about the > environment. > >But calling suppressing REM dangerous is maybe taking things a bit > too > >far, but suppressing it in the long run may be bad. > > As Trish said, REM suppression is *very* dangerous. Without REM you > will have a mental breakdown and eventually die! In fact, it's a > well documented fact that REM is such a vital function that you will > begin hallucinating after a few days without it. This is basically > the body saying to you "well if you won't let me dream like I'm > suppose to then I'll bloody well start dreaming while you're awake > whether you like it or not." > > Many studies have been done where the sleepers were allowed to sleep > their normal 8 hours (or whatever) but were woken as soon as REM > started. Then they were allowed to go back to sleep but were woken > again when they started REM'ing again. This process was repeated and > after their night's "sleep", it felt like they hadn't slept at all. > After a few days of this, they started hallucinating ie. they > started dreaming whilst awake. > > Sleep deprivation is a known method of torture as nobody can hack it > without either breaking or going psychotic. > > Shane Hey Shane .. did you watch that program on the Discovery channel as well? Sounds like you're stating exactly what the program emphasized, and that's where I'm basing my contribution as well. It caught me by surprise, because although I knew that lack of sleep could be dangerous, I wasn't aware that a lack of REM could be just as dangerous as well. Trish ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mv4u1$pf7$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:34:21 +0200 Lines: 168 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com Message-ID: <3593f754.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!netnews.com!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p48.telia.com Trish Pike wrote in message <6mv4u1$pf7$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... >Perhaps for some reason, REM sleep differs on occasion from person to personfor >reasons that have not been fully researched. Shortly, I'll be hitting the books >and finding out as much as possible, in detail, on the subject. I'd be >interested in >knowing how you determine your sleep stages. Do you have a machine that >monitors it? If so, how did you get it, and how does it work? > I have a device that monitors my eye movement during the night. This device is highly programmable, since I can connect it to my computer. It has the ability to produce light and sound, not only to monitor my eye movements. So when it notice that my eyes are moving then it will give a certain numbers of red light flashes. The point is that I shall recognize these flashes in my dream and remember to become lucid. My problem is that I need to develop a better dream recall before I can start to recognize these red flashes. The device is called SuperNovaDreamer, it is a NovaDreamer with computer interface. If you download the supernova program from the lucidity institute can you be able to see my REM-pattern on your computer-screen. I have about 2 weeks of records now. This device can be used to achieve lucid dreams. But I'm having problems remembering my dream with this device, probably because I only use it the first 6 hours of the night. I wake up for some reason after 6 hours and use to take it off. I haven't tried taking naps with it yet. That is supposed to be the easiest way to achieve lucid dreams. I haven't had a nap since I was a little baby. So taking naps ain't my style, but I think I will have to start taking some soon. They are great for OBE and Lucid dreams. >> The amount of dreaming can be changed... >> Most people have to wait at least 90 minutes before they can leave their >> body, I don't know how long it takes for you to leave. But fact remains >> that it is easiest to leave when you are close to REM. > >Where has this been stated as a fact and what are the details of the research >onthis? Most scientific studies group OBEs with dreams and lucid dreams so I >find >that hard to be fact and not opinion. Most people out there do not have any >type >of monitoring device that shows what stage of sleep they are in when they OBE. >So I make the assumption on what I've read, and what time during sleep my >OBEs occur. > I base that opinion on when it is most likely to achieve OBE, what state of mind you are in and the fact that you body is paralyzed during REM. But astral projection is a psychic ability. It is an ability that can be practiced. With enough practice can you do it whenever you want. ¨But we are all normal people that want to figure out how we can do it in the most easiest way, and that is when you body is paralyzed. Have you heard of the WILD technique, this is just lying down trying to conscious fall asleep. People start seeing hypnagogic images, hearing buzz and then all of the sudden do they enter REM. Their body is paralyzed and your subconscious is highly active. But it doesn't have to be, our brain tries to do what we want. So if we want to leave our body, then we do, if we want to have a lucid dream, then that is no problem either. So it is possible to suppress our subconscious desire to imagine things with a little conscious effort. Our astral body is free when our physical body is paralyzed and is free to leave. So the goal is mainly to paralyze our physical body, not to enter REM, but our physical body is being paralyzed when we enter REM.... My research suggest that I dream for about 5-10 minutes before I go lower down. I don't know if my body is paralyzed, if I'm dreaming in stage one or REM. But this happen right after I drop unconscious. I have another REM after about an hour or so, it varies a lot.... This might explain why you can easily leave your body when you go to bed. This also explain why some people have to wait an hour or two before they might leave. The goal is to paralyze the body, leaving our astral body free. >> I will not suggest anyone to practice as they go to bed, it is much wiser >> sleep 6 hours and then practice... > >Why? I've only had OBEs as I go to bed. I've never had any OBEs after6 hours >of sleep .. ever. For some reason, I'm just not able to. If there are >others out there like me, waiting 6 hours would defeat the purpose. > You have more and longer REM the more you sleep. And you fall in REM a lot faster after 6 hours of sleep. But why can't you leave your body after 6 hours? You need to stay up and be a bit active for half an hour before you try. Do you fall asleep right away, or can't you fall asleep or what? What is the reason for why you can leave your body? Is it psychological reasons for it? >>> It might be fun exploring you imagination, and it might be fun checking >> out how New York looks like. I will try both. There is nothing more fun than >> having full control... > >I agree. And I think we both may have work to do in researching sleep >stages.It'll be fun, and informative at the same time. If I run across anything >in my search >I'll e-mail you .. and please do the same for me. If you come across any books, >please refer them to me as well. > Thanks, and I will try to post my findings on this group, or email it too you.... But we might just as well keep it here, I guess there are more people interested in this... The only book I'm reading at the moment is on Norwegian, but I guess it has been translated to English too. This guy has been in the business for a long time and has write many books on the subject, even paranormal dreams... So I will read a couple of his books and that book that Stephen LaBerge wrote: "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming". It came with the NovaDreamer. I got some hypnosis books I want to read and telepathic books, but by the time I get around to read those book will I be able to read 1 million words a minute. That way will I manage to read a book within a minute. That will be fun... But first do I need to get control over my dreams... >P>S> ... I used to live in New York. The city is a great place to visit. I >also had a >lucid dream one time where I went back for a visit. Great fun. If I could meet >you >there I'd show you around. > I guess I will see you out there sooner or later... :) StoneHedge maybe, but New York sounds good to me... Another interesting thought has crossed my mind. It is possible to stimulate our laughter by tiny charges of electricity to a certain place on our brain. The subject will start to giggle and laugh without any reason. Now, if we could find our consciousness, then we might be able to stimulate it during REM and we able to activate it with electricity. If this would work, then achieving lucid dreams would be as easy as hell.... Meaning that leaving your body should also be easy. Cheers, Lars ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:51:49 +0200 Lines: 26 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com Message-ID: <3593fb6b.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!naxos!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!peer.news-uk.wisper.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!uninett.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p48.telia.com Shane wrote in message <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33>... >As Trish said, REM suppression is *very* dangerous. Without REM you >will have a mental breakdown and eventually die! In fact, it's a >well documented fact that REM is such a vital function that you will >begin hallucinating after a few days without it. This is basically >the body saying to you "well if you won't let me dream like I'm >suppose to then I'll bloody well start dreaming while you're awake >whether you like it or not." > The book I'm reading discussed this issue, but it didn't go as far as saying that it is *very* dangerous. It only that that is results in anxiety, irritable, difficulties in concentration and heighten desire for food (Probably because the brain thinks it is not getting its right nutrition's). But alcohol is a medicament that reduces your REM-activity, and if you suddenly stop using alcohol, then you might experience hallucinations during the day. Regards, Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.giganews.com!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:34:34 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 22 Message-ID: <6n1p3k$981$1@news-1.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> <3594509c.0@d2o204.telia.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust6.tnt2.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D50FC1055083CDD718918491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Could some tell me what is going on on Discovery? > I'm one of those who don't have that channel... > > A summary of each program should do it... > > So they have told the whole world that a life without REM-sleep > is dangerous? > > Lars I don't understand why you would find this so hard to believe Lars. After all, half our lives are spent sleeping. We're not intentionally designed to sleep, just to waste time. Trish ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!naxos!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: rschnei578@aol.com (RSchnei578) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Lines: 8 Message-ID: <1998062623422300.TAA25205@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jun 1998 23:42:23 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <3593b2ca.0@139.134.5.33> I managed to lose a post I was reading and have looked through the newgroup listing to find it and I REALLY managed to lose it! Someone named Thich Van wrote what appeared to be a very comprehensive synopsis of the Monroe system (?) for OBE? Can someone help me either reconstruct it, repost it or help me figure out HOW I lost it and HOW to relocate it? Thank you. Gina Marguerite ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: rschnei578@aol.com (RSchnei578) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Lines: 5 Message-ID: <1998062623445100.TAA25513@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jun 1998 23:44:51 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <1998062018083400.OAA01662@ladder01.news.aol.com> ooopppsss. Sorry!!!!! I figured out what I did wrong.....and fixed it. Thanks and sorry for troubling anyone. Gina Marguerite ###### From: "Shane" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:19:05 +1000 Lines: 24 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.64.56 Message-ID: <3593b2c7.0@139.134.5.33> Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.64.56 Trish Pike wrote in message <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... >time. To my knowledge, no one has ever determined a lucid dream to take >place during non-REM sleep. >This is not stating that an OBE can't occur during REM. Many do. But I >believe if we are able to supress REM sleep while having an OBE, we'd be >more likely to find the source behind the experience, without >interference. Yep, if you start going into REM activity during an OBE, that's when dream images will start merging with your OBE environment. You're probably also in danger of falling totally into a dream and losing your clarity. At this point it may be best to try to come back to your body so you have the chance to imprint the OBE memory in your brain and / or record the experience. Then go back to sleep. Shane ###### From: "Shane" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:19:21 +1000 Lines: 33 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.64.56 Message-ID: <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.64.56 Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com>... >Well, I have never had an OBE so I don't know much about the environment. >But calling suppressing REM dangerous is maybe taking things a bit too >far, but suppressing it in the long run may be bad. As Trish said, REM suppression is *very* dangerous. Without REM you will have a mental breakdown and eventually die! In fact, it's a well documented fact that REM is such a vital function that you will begin hallucinating after a few days without it. This is basically the body saying to you "well if you won't let me dream like I'm suppose to then I'll bloody well start dreaming while you're awake whether you like it or not." Many studies have been done where the sleepers were allowed to sleep their normal 8 hours (or whatever) but were woken as soon as REM started. Then they were allowed to go back to sleep but were woken again when they started REM'ing again. This process was repeated and after their night's "sleep", it felt like they hadn't slept at all. After a few days of this, they started hallucinating ie. they started dreaming whilst awake. Sleep deprivation is a known method of torture as nobody can hack it without either breaking or going psychotic. Shane ###### From: "Shane" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <3591aea7.0@diana.idirect.com> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:32:27 +1000 Lines: 67 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.64.56 Message-ID: <3593b2ca.0@139.134.5.33> Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.64.56 mpfc wrote in message +ADw-3591aea7.0+AEA-diana.idirect.com+AD4-... >Im not sure about this REM stuff in terms of dreaming... according >to dream researchers REM occurs around 2 to 3 hours into sleep and >then dreaming begins... well.. I don't subscribe to that at all... I >have started dreaming within 5 minutes of closing my eyes.. >particularly lucid dreaming... I'm not necessarily doubting what you say here about your experiences, but I have to ask how do you know that you start dreaming 5 minutes into sleep if you're not conscious to notice the time? One's sense of time during sleep can be greatly distorted. Do you have one of those goggle gadgets that record your REM activity or did you wake up after only a few minutes sleep and recall a dream? Normally, the first REM activity occurs around 90 minutes after falling asleep and REM is the signal that the sleeper is dreaming. A few people may do it quicker than normal and if you've been deprived of sleep for a while then you may go straight into REM when you fall asleep. Although I said there wasn't a great deal of research on REM and OBE's, there is a lot of research on REM and dreams. Researchers have found that when a sleeper is woken up during REM a dream was occuring. When the sleeper was woken during non-REM sleep, a dream was not occuring, so REM is definitely a necessity for dreaming. >I agree with you and think that lucid dreams can be one end of a >contiuum that can lead to an OBE.. at least thats the angle I am >working on in trying to go out-of-body.. I am pretty sure though, >that lucid dreams are not imagination, at least not the ones that I >have experienced.. I mean.. waking up in your own dream and >realizing you are inside that dream and can do what you want to do, >go where you want to with full conscious realization of what is >occuring is much more than merely imagination Lucid dreams are a product of the imagination in the sense that they have no independent reality outside your own mind. This doesn't mean that the dream has to be hazy and "dream-like" or that you can't become conscious during the dream and control the scenery / actions. It just means that what you're seeing is coming from your sub-conscious mind. Sleep is an altered state of consciousness and the sub-conscious mind is much more powerful than the conscious mind - it's certainly capable of creating vivid images in your mind. When I said "imagination" I was referring to the sub-conscious mind. There's sometimes a fine line between LD's and OBE's and they can sometimes merge into each other if you're OBE during REM activity. However, one of the main differences between a LD and an OBE is that the environment in an OBE has an independent existence outside of your own mind. The environment in a LD is "created" from your mind. If you manage to use a LD as a springboard for an OBE, you'll probably see the dream scenery melt away to reveal the "real" scenery (if you're in a LD, you're probably already OBE - it's just that your focus is on the dream so you don't see it). Shane ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: 27 Jun 1998 03:47:39 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 49 Message-ID: <6n1q0r$lk7@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh41-37.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jun 26 10:47:39 PM CDT 1998 In <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> Trish Pike writes: > Hey Shane .. did you watch that program on the Discovery channel as >well? Sounds like you're stating exactly what the program emphasized, >and that's where I'm basing my contribution as well. > >It caught me by surprise, because although I knew that lack of sleep >could be dangerous, I wasn't aware that a lack of REM could be just as >dangerous as well. > >Trish I didn't see the program you mention - but I've known for a long time that the lack of REM sleep can result in severe mental illness. Didn't you have psychology 101? Maybe just a different teacher ;-) There is another part to this. Alcoholism... Heavy drinking will result in the person falling more into a coma-like state instead of natural sleep - no REM sleep. In my opinion, this leads to deeper mental illness if the alcoholic drinks every single night - because of the lack of REM sleep. I know this from personal experience... It's not necessarily the fact that alcohol kills brain cells that often causes violent behavior in alcoholics - but the lack of REM sleep. There was also an episode of Star Trek which depicted the crew members as becoming quite irrational after being deprived of REM sleep. (by the way, if anybody is wondering... I never hit my wife - but she struck me a few times. What a mess alcohol can make...) There is another curiosity about REM sleep. It seems that if you are deprived of it for one night, but permitted it on the next, you will have twice the duration of REMs. Deprive yourself of 2 nights... then you will have 3 times the normal amount of REM. So, there's a technique in itself. Deprive yourself of REM sleep for two nights - and on the third night, prepare for the fireworks by making certain you will have undisturbed time to explore. If you want to take it to extremes - deprive yourself for three nights and then go to bed and don't get out of bed until you've had an OBE. I don't care if it takes you two solid days of lying in bed - just keep trying. Of course... you probably shouldn't do it for more than two days. Just a couple of thoughts... Bart ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 03:55:13 +0200 Lines: 26 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p48.telia.com Message-ID: <3594509c.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p48.telia.com Trish Pike wrote in message <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net>... > Hey Shane .. did you watch that program on the Discovery channel as >well? >Sounds like you're stating exactly what the program emphasized, and >that's where >I'm basing my contribution as well. > >It caught me by surprise, because although I knew that lack of sleep >could be >dangerous, I wasn't aware that a lack of REM could be just as dangerous >as well. > >Trish > Could some tell me what is going on on Discovery? I'm one of those who don't have that channel... A summary of each program should do it... So they have told the whole world that a life without REM-sleep is dangerous? Lars ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!naxos!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!ix.netcom.com!news From: Zac Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:36:24 -0700 Organization: none Lines: 45 Message-ID: <359573E8.6745@geocities.com> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> <3594509c.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6n1p3k$981$1@news-1.news.gte.net> <359508be.0@d2o204.telia.com> Reply-To: psycho_dude@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ple-ca8-18.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sat Jun 27 3:32:57 PM PDT 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) Lars Rune Foleide wrote: > > Trish Pike wrote in message <6n1p3k$981$1@news-1.news.gte.net>... > > > > I don't understand why you would find this so hard to believe Lars. > After > >all, > >half our lives are spent sleeping. We're not intentionally designed to > >sleep, just > >to waste time. > > > >Trish > > > > Hi. > I think you have misunderstood some... > I do believe that it is dangerous to not have REM-sleep. > I also believe that REM-sleep is essential for learning. > > I just find it hard to believe that you only need to avoid REM-sleep > for 2-3 days before you start to hallucinate. Actually, I heard somewhere that after three days with no sleep you can be considered legally insane. > > I would think that it would take at least a week. > I base this on what I read in my Dream-book... > > Did you know that if you don't dream in REM, then you start to dream in > the other stages? > > Of course it is dangerous, I think don't think it is as dangerous as you > guys > want it to be... A couple of days just isn't enough... > > And half our life is a bit exaggeration, maybe one third... > > Cheers, > Lars -- -Zac I'm not insane... ....the voices in my head tell me so. ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> <3594509c.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6n1p3k$981$1@news-1.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:00:57 +0200 Lines: 37 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p34.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t7o204p34.telia.com Message-ID: <359508be.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!masternews.telia.net!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t7o204p34.telia.com Trish Pike wrote in message <6n1p3k$981$1@news-1.news.gte.net>... > > I don't understand why you would find this so hard to believe Lars. After >all, >half our lives are spent sleeping. We're not intentionally designed to >sleep, just >to waste time. > >Trish > Hi. I think you have misunderstood some... I do believe that it is dangerous to not have REM-sleep. I also believe that REM-sleep is essential for learning. I just find it hard to believe that you only need to avoid REM-sleep for 2-3 days before you start to hallucinate. I would think that it would take at least a week. I base this on what I read in my Dream-book... Did you know that if you don't dream in REM, then you start to dream in the other stages? Of course it is dangerous, I think don't think it is as dangerous as you guys want it to be... A couple of days just isn't enough... And half our life is a bit exaggeration, maybe one third... Cheers, Lars ###### From: "Shane" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:56:42 +1000 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.64.16 Message-ID: <3594d28e.0@139.134.5.33> Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.maz.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer!btnet!newsfeed.internetmci.com!139.130.250.2!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.64.16 Lines: 37 Trish Pike wrote in message <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net>... >Hey Shane .. did you watch that program on the Discovery channel as >well? Sounds like you're stating exactly what the program >emphasized, and that's where I'm basing my contribution as well. No, I don't have the Discovery channel unfortunately. I used to have it but our cable TV system works a bit differently here in Oz. There's only 2 cable TV companies here. Some of the channels are shared but most are exclusive to one or the other and you can't choose the channels you want - you get what you're given (although they have 3 different "plans" - useless, crap and too expensive). I was signed up with the one that has the Discovery channel, but that was costing $55 per month (for around 30 channels including retransmission of the 5 free to air networks). The free to air networks here are pretty good and they have a lot of shows that you'd need cable to see in the USA. There were only a few channels that I thought were worth watching on cable so I couldn't justify the cost. Anyway, I don't think the show you're talking about would have been on at the same time here. This is a bit off topic, but I'm curious. How much do you pay for cable in the USA? I've heard it's some ridiculously small amount compared to what we have to pay here. Shane ###### From: mpfc@hotmail.com (Steve) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 22:55:37 GMT Message-ID: <35957811.84846316@n3.idirect.com> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: omennet7.idirect.com X-Trace: 27 Jun 1998 23:04:27 GMT, omennet7.idirect.com Organization: "Usenet User" Lines: 27 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!naxos!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.136.80.163!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!omennet7.idirect.com On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:10:17 +0200, "Lars Rune Foleide" wrote: >GALLIANOJ wrote in message ><1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com>... >>I agree, I dont believe you can learn astral projection in a >week...especially >>if it has never happened to you before. While I do feel that Robert Monroe >is >>an authentic astral traveler >>and a very inspired man, I do however believe that The Monroe Inst.. is >really >>milking the cow now. And while the products may be impressive and the >>catalogue well constructed, the principle that Robert Monroe was trying to >>share is "Industry" now. I, personally, didn't have a good experience with >>communicating with them. >>Jean >> I was really turned off ot the Monroe Institute for that very reason.. seems to be a money- making venture now.. although I did enjoy the books by Robert Monroe. Regards, Steve ###### From: mpfc@hotmail.com (Steve) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:00:06 GMT Message-ID: <359578fd.85082319@n3.idirect.com> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 NNTP-Posting-Host: omennet7.idirect.com X-Trace: 27 Jun 1998 23:08:55 GMT, omennet7.idirect.com Organization: "Usenet User" Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!naxos!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news1.bellglobal.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!omennet7.idirect.com >> Lars Rune Foleide wrote in message <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com>... >> I'd have to disagree with that above statement. OBE's are not about >> staying conscious into REM stage sleep. Although there is not a >> great deal of research into it, what research there is shows that, >> whilst lucid dreams typically occur during REM whereas OBE's do not. >> If OBE's always occurred during REM then it would be fairly logical >> to argue that OBE's are nothing more than lucid dreams and, >> therefore are merely a product of people's imagination. Are you equating lucid dreaming with imagination... ouch!... perhaps what I experienced is an OBE then, not a lucid dream.. although I need a definition of lucid dreaming that you are using to understand your equation to it being "merely a product of people's imagination" >> Regards, Steve ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!worldfeed.gte.net!newsfeed.gte.net!newsfeed2.gte.net.MISMATCH!news.gte.net!not-for-mail From: Trish Pike Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:55:12 -0400 Organization: gte.net Lines: 35 Message-ID: <6n4em6$7hi$2@news-1.news.gte.net> References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> <3594d28e.0@139.134.5.33> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust28.tnt3.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: 550FC4900EDE4DD948490412 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Shane wrote: > Trish Pike wrote in message <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net>... > > >Hey Shane .. did you watch that program on the Discovery channel as > >well? Sounds like you're stating exactly what the program > >emphasized, and that's where I'm basing my contribution as well. > > No, I don't have the Discovery channel unfortunately. I used to have > it but our cable TV system works a bit differently here in Oz. > There's only 2 cable TV companies here. Some of the channels are > shared but most are exclusive to one or the other and you can't > choose the channels you want - you get what you're given (although > they have 3 different "plans" - useless, crap and too expensive). I > was signed up with the one that has the Discovery channel, but that > was costing $55 per month (for around 30 channels including > retransmission of the 5 free to air networks). The free to air > networks here are pretty good and they have a lot of shows that > you'd need cable to see in the USA. There were only a few channels > that I thought were worth watching on cable so I couldn't justify > the cost. Anyway, I don't think the show you're talking about would > have been on at the same time here. > > This is a bit off topic, but I'm curious. How much do you pay for > cable in the USA? I've heard it's some ridiculously small amount > compared to what we have to pay here. > > Shane I usually pay about $30 a month. Trish ###### From: "Shane" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6mu7d4$gtn$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <3592d3c8.0@d2o204.telia.com> <3593b2c8.0@139.134.5.33> <6n1fjn$dfq$4@news-2.news.gte.net> <3594d28e.0@139.134.5.33> <6n4em6$7hi$2@news-1.news.gte.net> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 18:44:27 +1000 Lines: 16 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 139.134.63.152 Message-ID: <35960a89.0@139.134.5.33> Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!news-nyc.telia.net!news.idt.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!139.134.5.33!139.134.63.152 Trish Pike wrote in message <6n4em6$7hi$2@news-1.news.gte.net>... > I usually pay about $30 a month. > >Trish Well I guess $55 a month isn't too bad then - it's about the same if you take into account the difference in currencies. I don't watch a lot of TV but I did enjoy the Discovery channel and a few other things. Most of the channels just had rubbish though. Shane ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: 01 Jul 1998 01:56:05 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com> <1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com> <358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33> <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "Lars Rune Foleide" writes: > Trish Pike wrote in message <6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net>... > >This is not stating that an OBE can't occur during REM. Many do. But I > >believe if we are able to suppress REM sleep while having an OBE, we'd be > >more likely to find the source behind the experience, without > >interference. > How do you know that your eyes aren't moving while you are outside your > own body? > Do you have any research material on this? Try http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe-faq.html (The Out of Body FAQ by Jouni A Smed) for sources. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### From: "Lars Rune Foleide" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <358c9e94.0@diana.idirect.com><1998062220535900.QAA24323@ladder01.news.aol.com><358fb6e7.0@d2o204.telia.com> <359087e7.0@139.134.5.33><6msek3$3a0$1@news-2.news.gte.net> <35926156.0@d2o204.telia.com> Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 03:13:49 +0200 Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3105.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3105.0 NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p46.telia.com X-NNTP-Posting-Host: t4o204p46.telia.com Message-ID: <359c2fdc.0@d2o204.telia.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@telia.no Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!newsfeed50.telia.com!d2o204.telia.com!t4o204p46.telia.com Neil Franklin wrote in message ... >Try http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe-faq.html (The Out of Body FAQ >by Jouni A Smed) for sources. > I took a quick survey of that FAQ, and concluded that it had some quite interesting info... So I will push it up on my priority-list. Have printed it out a month ago or so. My problem is that I have a couple of million words I'm planing to read. (At least) If I had Lucid dreams regularly could I read all that within minutes and let the info enter my conscious mind during a lucid dream... Oh well, there is a time and place for everything.... The time for that will eventually come. Just hope I will not drown in all the information in the meantime... I have huge time-problems.... time doesn't seem to be on my side lately. Have so much to do, and so little time to do it on... Have started working...(earned $75 in 5 hours) and I all this stuff I want to read, learn and discuss.... And experiment with, I got a lot of stuff I want to experiment with. But I can't seem to find the time... Cheers, Lars ###### From: gailpark2@aol.com (Gail Park2) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Monroe Institute Gateway Lines: 4 Message-ID: <1998070412511601.IAA28866@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 4 Jul 1998 12:51:16 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6mv4u1$pf7$1@news-2.news.gte.net> Path: ccw.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail All of my OBE's have been just after I've gone to bed too. I tell myself to signal me when my body has fallen asleep...then I roll out or use the rope technique. gailpark2@aol.com