Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!158.43.192.17!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail From: burns.david@usa.net (David Burns) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:58:11 +0100 Organization: Polaris Software Lines: 17 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: aa110.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.940 All this 60s 'Chakra' rubbish. Sorry to say this, but isn't it invented? I never knew anything about them, but don't need to focus on anything like it to attempt projection. 'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u'- some people talk of this.... :-/ As i see it, i'm either experiancing a 'dream' consiousley, hence why weird things can happen and why it feels real. also u could argue u see your body in your bed BECAUSE you think u are out of your body, when you're just dreaming. Either that, or i'm actually leaving my body with the 'magic' part of myself, the 'thing' that makes a human consious, that most can't atrribute to the brain alone. Any thoughts? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.nacamar.de!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 19:20:34 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Lines: 55 Message-ID: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ag242.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 David Burns) wrote: >All this 60s 'Chakra' rubbish. Sorry to say this, but isn't it invented? >I never knew anything about them, but don't need to focus on anything >like it to attempt projection. Invented by whom? The chakra system seems to have worked for people meditating in Asia for 5,000 years. There is some evidence that chakra systems were taught to Jesus and other people searching for 'enlightenment'. It has been taught in the western world for at least 100 years. It works for me, and for many other people I meet. It may not work for you, but perhaps something else does. I won't rubbish your techniques; I am interested in learning, and so I listen to new information. I try not to dismiss other people's ideas as rubbish, because I respect what other people think, and I hope that they would do the same towards me. > >'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u'- some people >talk of this.... :-/ Because it works for them, and they offer their experience to those who may be interested. > >As i see it, i'm either experiancing a 'dream' consiousley, hence why >weird things can happen and why it feels real. also u could argue u see >your body in your bed BECAUSE you think u are out of your body, when >you're just dreaming. Not me. I know that there is a difference between dreaming and being awake. I tried it. > >Either that, or i'm actually leaving my body with the 'magic' part of >myself, the 'thing' that makes a human consious, that most can't >atrribute to the brain alone. Possibly. Now isn't that an interesting idea? Now, if you listened to the experience of other people who have considered the same question for the last 5,000 years, you might discover that there was something worth learning about? It might even include the physical and mental energies which you dismiss as 'chakra rubbish'. What then? Sir Isaac Newton (discovered gravity etc, remember him?) was a dedicated student of astrology, which even in the early 1700s was considered a bit weird by some people. One chap, who fancied himself as a leading scientist of the day, asked him, very pompously, why he continued to study "this rubbish?" Newton looked at him directly , and replied, "Sir, because I have studied it, and you have not." > >Any thoughts? Just this: There is so much to learn about out there, that it would take more than a single lifetime to learn it all. How many lifetimes can I have? All best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail From: burns.david@usa.net (David Burns) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 23:59:16 +0100 Organization: Polaris Software Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa098.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.940 In article <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com>, hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com says... > David Burns) wrote: > > >All this 60s 'Chakra' rubbish. Sorry to say this, but isn't it invented? > >I never knew anything about them, but don't need to focus on anything > >like it to attempt projection. > > Invented by whom? The chakra system seems to have worked for people Someone must have devised it, to explain some of the phenomena of astral projection in a way they could understand. > >'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u'- some people > >talk of this.... :-/ > > Because it works for them, and they offer their experience to > those who may be interested. I realise Astral Projection is a bit of an inexact 'science' for want of a better word, but it /does/ put people off when you hear things like that. That's what makes people laugh at you when u tell them about astral projection - they read about it and put you with all the 'hippies' of the world. Also, when people say you can die if you touch your asleep body when you're projecting. And if u leave a chakra open, you'll become ill and die And when people recommend performing a wiccan ritual while projecting, casting spells etc... that really destroys what in effect is a very _real_ thing. > Not me. I know that there is a difference between dreaming and > being awake. I tried it. No, i mean if you were fully consious, yet your brain was still producing dreams. that would give the same effect. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 09:31:00 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom) Lines: 64 Message-ID: <3565403a.56236389@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: aa184.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 David Burns wrote: That's what makes people laugh at you when u tell them about >astral projection - they read about it and put you with all the 'hippies' >of the world. JHM; So what is the problem with that? This is the alt.out-of-body newsgroup, after all. I am sorry that you did not fully read my previous replies to your questions, but if you want to laugh, go ahead. Laughter is good for the soul. I enjoy making people laugh. DB; >Also, when people say you can die if you touch your asleep body when you're projecting. JHM; How do they know? DB:>And if u leave a chakra open, you'll become ill and die JHM: Which particular chakra would that be, then? I have previously heard people coming out with this panicky fear of the unknown, generally those who have still got a lot of work to do on developing their own personalities. This sounds like plain old superstition to me! For me, opening the chakras increases my interaction with and acceptance of the world. This increases my understanding of the world and of my part in it. Closing down chakras would lock my inner self away from the world. Now, I can understand some people would consider that to be a good state to be in. Personally, I have plenty of confidence in my self, so I am trying to move onwards towards self-abnegation. To be unbothered and relaxed about the trivial daily concerns so many other people are locked into seems like a good thing for me. I can already fulfill all my responsibilities to my society and to my family. I am working on fulfilling my responsibility to myself now; to be happy. If I constantly struggle to close down, say, my heart chakra, then I am refusing to permit my love for the world and for my friends and family to emerge and be shared. I try to open the heart chakra and keep the love flowing! The petty concerns and exhaustions of the day do enough chakra-closing without my help, I find. I have been ill for ten years and I have nearly died of various physical problems four times. I don't get scared by illness or death any more. I want to live life to the fullest. I am happy that that idea amuses you. David Burns wrote: >And when people recommend performing a wiccan ritual while projecting, >casting spells etc... that really destroys what in effect is a very >_real_ thing. JHM: Does it? You obviously know a lot about this, then. Why not share that knowledge with us? JHM previously wrote>> Not me. I know that there is a difference between dreaming and being awake. I tried it. > David Burns wrote:>No, i mean if you were fully consious, yet your brain was still producing >dreams. that would give the same effect. Would it? How do you know? I am glad that you have such confidence in your opinions. I like to change mine regularly, as I find that they get stale and boring after a while. With all best wishes, Julia Hawkes-Moore. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.indigo.ie!not-for-mail From: "P" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: 22 May 1998 17:54:14 GMT Organization: Indigo Lines: 5 Message-ID: <01bd85aa$3ebab580$65947dc2@default> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ts03-091.dublin.indigo.ie X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1161 Whatever, concentrating on chakras can help people whether they are real or not because when they stimulate them they feel the have internal power etc.. Oh and by the way chakras 60's I don't think so try 2000 BC at least. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: 22 May 1998 23:13:18 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 35 Message-ID: <1ztm3t75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <3565403a.56236389@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) asked: > JHM; How do they know? > DB:>And if u leave a chakra open, you'll become ill and die > > JHM: Which particular chakra would that be, then? I have previously > heard people coming out with this panicky fear of the unknown, > generally those who have still got a lot of work to do on developing > their own personalities. This sounds like plain old superstition to > me! Here an example of this: Robert Bruce (rsb@tower.net.au) Treatise On Projection http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/projection.html Chapter 4 http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/projection-04.html#Closing The Chakras After any chakras work, it is VERY important to close them, unless you are going to use them, as in projection. This closing is especially important if you FEEL strong activity in them. If you leave chakras open during normal day to day activity you will bleed energy. This can cause fatigue and even health problems. It can also attract the unwanted attention of undesirable astral entities. The potential danger of not properly closing them has put me entirely off trying any chakra based method up to now. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ WinCE car, crashing soon on a road near you ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!news-lond.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ais.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: 23 May 1998 02:47:38 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 73 Message-ID: <6k5dca$kbt@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-27.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri May 22 7:47:38 PM PDT 1998 Sorry... trying to catch up on an important thread. In burns.david@usa.net (David Burns) writes: > >All this 60s 'Chakra' rubbish. Sorry to say this, but isn't it >invented? I never knew anything about them, but don't need to focus on >anything like it to attempt projection. You are right - you don't *NEED* to focus on anything like that. Chakra meditation is more advanced. To tell you the truth, I understand exactly where you are coming from. I don't like the words either. They sound so foreign - or just plain weird. But there *ARE* locations in your physical body which control the different areas of your body. And there *IS* a general flow through them which can be brought to peak efficiency for the task at hand - any task - through meditation. It is the 'Autonomous System' or 'Involuntary System' or both - as the glands, nerves, and certain muscles don't require our conscious input to function. In fact, our conscious input seems to be denied access to these areas - they are the robot of our bodies. But with Chakra meditation, I feel you can gain access to these ports and clean up the program to maintain health. Interestingly enough - these actual physical locations along the spine which control the different areas of the body, closely conform to the suggested Chakras within the inner body (which have been identified for centuries). The more conscious you become of these areas, the more conscious control you have over them - and if you want them to work in a balanced fashion during OBE then it is not a bad idea to get to know them well. I just don't like the word, but I have none other right now other than getting to know your gonads, adrenal, thymus, thyroid, pituitary, pineal, and, what's on top... In this case... I think I prefer the term "Chakra". But words are a pain. I just look for certain areas along my spine for activity - then I get into that activity and try to make it feel really good (giving and taking - back and forth until it reaches a stable 'flow') - then I move up my spine to the next area of activity and do the same thing there - I continue the process until I reach the center of visualization. When I do that, my body reports less crazy info to my brain and I become aligned and balanced - OBE is easy and quite clear from that point. I'm not good at it at all, but it is a very intriguing technique. Though, I wouldn't necessarily call it an 'easy' out for the beginner. >'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u'- some people >talk of this.... :-/ It's an inner exercise. So? Why would somebody want to do something weird like lift dumb weights when that action doesn't really directly affect the outside world? Personally, I think learning how to handle light internally is very important - no matter what your method or immediate reason. >As i see it, i'm either experiancing a 'dream' consiousley, hence why >weird things can happen and why it feels real. also u could argue u >see your body in your bed BECAUSE you think u are out of your body, >when you're just dreaming. > >Either that, or i'm actually leaving my body with the 'magic' part of >myself, the 'thing' that makes a human consious, that most can't >atrribute to the brain alone. > >Any thoughts? Sounds like you are not quite convinced either way. Doesn't matter. If you do it - just learn to do it better. Sooner or later you will have to use some weird words to describe your experiences and you will also learn who you can talk to and who you can't. It goes with the territory. Bart ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ix.netcom.com!news From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: 23 May 1998 03:07:39 GMT Organization: ICGNetcom Lines: 26 Message-ID: <6k5ehr$12g@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <3565403a.56236389@news.dial.pipex.com> <1ztm3t75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh39-27.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri May 22 10:07:39 PM CDT 1998 In <1ztm3t75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> Neil Franklin >Robert Bruce (rsb@tower.net.au) >Treatise On Projection >http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/projection.html >Chapter 4 >http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/projection-04.html#Closing The Chakras > >After any chakras work, it is VERY important to close them, >unless you are going to use them, as in projection. This closing >is especially important if you FEEL strong activity in them. If >you leave chakras open during normal day to day activity you >will bleed energy. This can cause fatigue and even health >problems. It can also attract the unwanted attention of >undesirable astral entities. >The potential danger of not properly closing them has put me entirely >off trying any chakra based method up to now. Hmmm... "Getting to know you. Getting to know ALL about you..." It's just a song that popped into my head... :) Bart ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!worldfeed.gte.net!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail From: "Evelyn" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: 23 May 1998 04:13:58 GMT Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 112 Message-ID: <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lash8-138.flash.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 David Burns wrote in article ... > In article <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com>, > hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com says... > > David Burns) wrote: > > > > >All this 60s 'Chakra' rubbish. Sorry to say this, but isn't it invented? > > >I never knew anything about them, but don't need to focus on anything > > >like it to attempt projection. Nope it is definitely not integral to projection. But I use my legs everyday to walk, even though I may not know about muscles flexing and blood flow and nerves, etc. Point is you may be using it automatically without knowing it. > > > > Invented by whom? The chakra system seems to have worked for people > > Someone must have devised it, to explain some of the phenomena of astral > projection in a way they could understand. That argument can be used for anything we say in this ng. We are all just trying to find a way of understanding what is happening to us. I would imagine all theories are just constructs of varying accuracies. > > > >'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u'- some people > > >talk of this.... :-/ My bet is placebo effect. Just like when a ball player does a certain stomp before going to bat. ITs a ritual to get yourself in the right frame of mind. Seems like a harmless enough crutch if you ask me. > > > > Because it works for them, and they offer their experience to > > those who may be interested. > > I realise Astral Projection is a bit of an inexact 'science' for want of > a better word, but it /does/ put people off when you hear things like > that. That's what makes people laugh at you when u tell them about > astral projection - they read about it and put you with all the 'hippies' > of the world. Well I for one have long ago given up trying to make astral projection sound scientific and logical to the world at large. The whole thing just sounds crazy, even if you leave the chakra stuff out. > Also, when people say you can die if you touch your asleep body when > you're projecting. > And if u leave a chakra open, you'll become ill and die I didn't used to believe in the chakra thing at all. But eventually, I decided to try a few chakra exercises just to check it out. I did get some interesting results and have had some interesting experiences with it. I don't know if the whole chakra concept is exactly accurate, but I do think there is something to it, at least. Seeing is believing as they say. > And when people recommend performing a wiccan ritual while projecting, > casting spells etc... that really destroys what in effect is a very > _real_ thing. Again, a ritual to help get the mind in the right place. I don't think the ritual is so important as the fact that you believe it will work. People perform these things because they personally want to have an OBE, not necesarily because they want to convince the world. The world will just have to deal with that fact. Besides, like I said, I don't think the world will believe until it is the right time. I speak from experience. I was your typical skeptic. I don't think there would have been any way I would have ever really believed that even this basic OBE stuff was other than a dream unless one of two things took place. ONe was that scientific study revealed significant evidence to that effect and was published in news and magazine for me to see. Or two that I experienced it for myself. And that is in fact what happened. I began having spontaneous OBEs and later found that others described very similar experiences. This caused me to change my perceptions. Before that, I had not completely ruled out the possibility of astral projection but had simply thought it was just much more likely to be dreams and bs than reality. Face it, astral projection as a reality simply sounds unlikely based on general knowledge of the world population. The only way to change that general knowledge is to gain evidence to the contrary. That is simply one of the disadvantages of astral projection. People may think you are crazy if you tell them. I figure that will change very slowly, so don't hold your breath. > > > Not me. I know that there is a difference between dreaming and > > being awake. I tried it. > > No, i mean if you were fully consious, yet your brain was still producing > dreams. that would give the same effect. When I first began astral projection, I assumed that there was simply astral projection as a reality and that all other paranormal stuff was dreams and BS. But as I had more and more OBEs, I slowly began to change my mind about it and now think it is not so cut and dry. I don't suggest that one should throw the skeptical side out the window, but I do think it is a good idea to consider the possibility that there might be connections and other experiences that we do not understand yet. Just as a year ago, I did not understand the reality of OBEs. I think we cannot so simply say that only OBEs are real paranormal phenomena and that there is nothing else out there besides that. Especially since we do not even understand how or what OBEs are, but can only hypothesize. -- Trust in Allah, but tie up your camel. -Evelyn ###### Message-ID: <3566F81B.E237C41C@pop.slkc.uswest.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 09:23:55 -0700 From: oberoberts@pop.slkc.uswest.net Reply-To: oberoberts@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. References: <1998052313413400.JAA04213@ladder01.news.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.224.201.76 X-Trace: 23 May 1998 10:15:43 +0500, 207.224.201.76 Lines: 32 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!207.224.201.76 GALLIANOJ wrote: > david burns > ....perhaps you do not need to focus on any of these methods > utilized by lucid dreamers or obe'ers but dont mock or judge those who do. we > all need some kind of focus or intention and we are all in the same boat, so to > speak. we should try to create an alliance, share experiences etc... believe > it or not there are still some of those dinosaur people from the 60's still > kickin around and hey! why mock something that has worked, unless you can > improve on it, why say anything about it? different people require different > modes and methods... we are all for what works for you and commend you in your > advanced state of consciousness. but as we try, we do need encouragement > and not scorn. so i say to you, david burns, dont tell us what we are > doing wrong, rather enlighten us to how to do better. > thank you, > jean Ditto ! When as travelers have enough negativity from others who think we are a little odd, we certainly don't need fellow travelers criticizing our techniques. Just as each of us are unique and individualistic, so are our techniques. Our group is here for support and encouragement, not to be mocked or ridiculed. I for one am glad I happened upon this group, it has given me what I needed, to know I am not alone in my travelers. Thank you all. Beth ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: gallianoj@aol.com (GALLIANOJ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <1998052313413400.JAA04213@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 May 1998 13:41:33 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: david burns ....perhaps you do not need to focus on any of these methods utilized by lucid dreamers or obe'ers but dont mock or judge those who do. we all need some kind of focus or intention and we are all in the same boat, so to speak. we should try to create an alliance, share experiences etc... believe it or not there are still some of those dinosaur people from the 60's still kickin around and hey! why mock something that has worked, unless you can improve on it, why say anything about it? different people require different modes and methods... we are all for what works for you and commend you in your advanced state of consciousness. but as we try, we do need encouragement and not scorn. so i say to you, david burns, dont tell us what we are doing wrong, rather enlighten us to how to do better. thank you, jean ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: earlcurley@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:02:21 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 68 Message-ID: <6k6odt$8ng$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <3565403a.56236389@news.dial.pipex.com> <1ztm3t75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.90.135.205 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat May 23 15:02:21 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.04Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) In article < 1ztm3t75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > > hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) asked: > > JHM; How do they know? > > DB:>And if u leave a chakra open, you'll become ill and die > > > > JHM: Which particular chakra would that be, then? I have previously > > heard people coming out with this panicky fear of the unknown, > > generally those who have still got a lot of work to do on developing > > their own personalities. This sounds like plain old superstition to > > me! > > Here an example of this: > > Robert Bruce (rsb@tower.net.au) > Treatise On Projection > http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/projection.html > Chapter 4 > http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/projection-04.html#Closing The Chakras > > After any chakras work, it is VERY important to close them, > unless you are going to use them, as in projection. This closing > is especially important if you FEEL strong activity in them. If > you leave chakras open during normal day to day activity you > will bleed energy. This can cause fatigue and even health > problems. It can also attract the unwanted attention of > undesirable astral entities. > > The potential danger of not properly closing them has put me entirely > off trying any chakra based method up to now. Eastern philosphy has had it's good points but the problem we seem to be experiencing here is that far too many times, some people convulute the true meanings of subjects. As far as chalkras are concerned, if those of you who are more interested in really learning how to astral project would simply leave the fallacies to those who know no better, and simply learn to relax, concentrate on what you are trying to do, without a doubt, you'll find your success rate substantially increased. In other words, far too many people get caught up with the anomalies other's present as fact (which in most cases is not) and by doing so establish the fears and road blocks in their minds, that eliminates them from proceeding any further. I have learned over all these years that whenever I read so and so claims that items such as chalkras, evil entities, etc. play a role in astral projection, I know without a doubt they have never accomplished a true astral projection state. Why? Because they can not function in a non- contaminated mental state. Earl Curley webdesignca@hotmail.com http://www.webdesign.ca/emotions/ -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Message-ID: <35674BD7.F3B5BB46@pop.slkc.uswest.net> Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:21:11 -0700 From: oberoberts@pop.slkc.uswest.net Reply-To: oberoberts@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. References: <1998052313413400.JAA04213@ladder01.news.aol.com> <3566F81B.E237C41C@pop.slkc.uswest.net> <6k78mt$3k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.224.201.108 X-Trace: 23 May 1998 16:12:59 +0500, 207.224.201.108 Lines: 69 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!gulfsouth.verio.net!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!newsfeed2.uswest.net!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!207.224.201.108 Maybe I was not clear about what I suggested. That is that I don't believe anyone should judge anyone else about how they do or do not project, that is left up to the individual. All I am saying is that we should ALL be supportive of each other's abilities in their own right and share and answer questions but not criticize one person or a person's way of doing things. Everyone is different. I believe we support each other not tear each other down. Beth earlcurley@hotmail.com wrote: > In article < > 3566F81B.E237C41C@pop.slkc.uswest.net>, > oberoberts@uswest.net wrote: > > > > > > GALLIANOJ wrote: > > > > > david burns > > > ....perhaps you do not need to focus on any of these methods > > > utilized by lucid dreamers or obe'ers but dont mock or judge those who do. we > > > all need some kind of focus or intention and we are all in the same boat, so to > > > speak. we should try to create an alliance, share experiences etc... believe > > > it or not there are still some of those dinosaur people from the 60's still > > > kickin around and hey! why mock something that has worked, unless you can > > > improve on it, why say anything about it? different people require different > > > modes and methods... we are all for what works for you and commend you in your > > > advanced state of consciousness. but as we try, we do need encouragement > > > and not scorn. so i say to you, david burns, dont tell us what we are > > > doing wrong, rather enlighten us to how to do better. > > > thank you, > > > jean > > > > Ditto ! When as travelers have enough negativity from others who think we are a > > little odd, we certainly don't need fellow travelers criticizing our techniques. > > Just as each of us are unique and individualistic, so are our techniques. > > > > Our group is here for support and encouragement, not to be mocked or ridiculed. I > > for one am glad I happened upon this group, it has given me what I needed, to know > > I am not alone in my travelers. > > > > Thank you all. > > > > Beth > > First and foremost, Beth and Jean, just because > others do not wish to accept all the trappings that > many spew in this news group does not mean that > they are attacking and/or do not believe. David > had some very valid points and more important he > stated those convictions realistically. > > Fine, go on with your failures if you so desire, > but the Davids of this world are spreading their > wings and seeking legitimate answers. All the > trappings some would profess are a hinderence to > astral projection and always will be. David, don't > let the objections sway you. You are more on > track than most could ever imagine. > > Earl Curley > webdesignca@hotmail.com > http://www.webdesign.ca/emotions/ > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: earlcurley@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:40:13 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 56 Message-ID: <6k78mt$3k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <1998052313413400.JAA04213@ladder01.news.aol.com> <3566F81B.E237C41C@pop.slkc.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.90.137.151 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat May 23 19:40:13 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/3.04Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) In article < 3566F81B.E237C41C@pop.slkc.uswest.net>, oberoberts@uswest.net wrote: > > > GALLIANOJ wrote: > > > david burns > > ....perhaps you do not need to focus on any of these methods > > utilized by lucid dreamers or obe'ers but dont mock or judge those who do. we > > all need some kind of focus or intention and we are all in the same boat, so to > > speak. we should try to create an alliance, share experiences etc... believe > > it or not there are still some of those dinosaur people from the 60's still > > kickin around and hey! why mock something that has worked, unless you can > > improve on it, why say anything about it? different people require different > > modes and methods... we are all for what works for you and commend you in your > > advanced state of consciousness. but as we try, we do need encouragement > > and not scorn. so i say to you, david burns, dont tell us what we are > > doing wrong, rather enlighten us to how to do better. > > thank you, > > jean > > Ditto ! When as travelers have enough negativity from others who think we are a > little odd, we certainly don't need fellow travelers criticizing our techniques. > Just as each of us are unique and individualistic, so are our techniques. > > Our group is here for support and encouragement, not to be mocked or ridiculed. I > for one am glad I happened upon this group, it has given me what I needed, to know > I am not alone in my travelers. > > Thank you all. > > Beth First and foremost, Beth and Jean, just because others do not wish to accept all the trappings that many spew in this news group does not mean that they are attacking and/or do not believe. David had some very valid points and more important he stated those convictions realistically. Fine, go on with your failures if you so desire, but the Davids of this world are spreading their wings and seeking legitimate answers. All the trappings some would profess are a hinderence to astral projection and always will be. David, don't let the objections sway you. You are more on track than most could ever imagine. Earl Curley webdesignca@hotmail.com http://www.webdesign.ca/emotions/ -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!fci-se!fci!fu-berlin.de!cijadra.dialup.fu-berlin.DE!not-for-mail From: cijadra@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Cijadrachon) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Sun, 31 May 1998 11:47:54 GMT Organization: Freie Universitaet Berlin Lines: 3 Message-ID: <35714346.18856136@news.zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cijadra.dialup.fu-berlin.de (130.133.216.34) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Access: 16 17 18 X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 896702448 13322 (none) 130.133.216.34 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 >> > >'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u' How does that work? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.idt.net!newsin.iconnet.net!news.mcleodusa.net!news From: themissinglink Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 18:31:53 -0500 Organization: By Divine Design Lines: 8 Message-ID: <35748B69.B49@mcleodusa.net> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <35714346.18856136@news.zedat.fu-berlin.de> <357ccd32.19566547@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 211-A-36-175.ppp.mcleodusa.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I) John Fitzsimons wrote: Such shielding can be created by our own thought processes > and/or with the help of spirit guides of the light. > > Regards, John. > > **************************************************** thankyou for confirming that! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 22:17:40 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 23 Message-ID: <357ccd32.19566547@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <35714346.18856136@news.zedat.fu-berlin.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: b2-24.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On Sun, 31 May 1998 11:47:54 GMT, cijadra@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Cijadrachon) wrote: >>> > >'Casting a shield of white light around you to protect u' >How does that work? Creating a white light shield around oneself has the effect of discouraging negative people (incarnate and discarnate) from getting close. If one imagines this shield glowing (eg. like a flame) then this can have the added effect of dissolving negative thought -forms. Such shielding can be created by our own thought processes and/or with the help of spirit guides of the light. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!131.216.1.86!news.nevada.edu!scs.unr.edu!surfer2.surf.scs.unr.edu!williama From: The March Hare Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:50:43 -0700 Organization: University & Community College System of Nevada Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <35714346.18856136@news.zedat.fu-berlin.de> <357ccd32.19566547@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: surfer2.surf.scs.unr.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Sender: williama@surfer2.surf.scs.unr.edu In-Reply-To: <357ccd32.19566547@news.melbpc.org.au> On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, John Fitzsimons wrote: > > Creating a white light shield around oneself has the effect of > discouraging negative people (incarnate and discarnate) from > getting close. If one imagines this shield glowing (eg. like a flame) > then this can have the added effect of dissolving negative thought > -forms. Such shielding can be created by our own thought processes > and/or with the help of spirit guides of the light. > > Regards, John. Sorry for barging in, but what if the person attempting to create this shield with "the effect of discouraging negative people" is, himself, a negative person? Would there be severe consequences, or would the person in question just get really, really discouraged? Selah, --Will ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!ix.netcom.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 04:35:56 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 48 Message-ID: <357b223f.4360492@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <35714346.18856136@news.zedat.fu-berlin.de> <357ccd32.19566547@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-11.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On Wed, 3 Jun 1998 00:50:43 -0700, The March Hare wrote: >On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Will, >> Creating a white light shield around oneself has the effect of >> discouraging negative people (incarnate and discarnate) from >> getting close. If one imagines this shield glowing (eg. like a flame) >> then this can have the added effect of dissolving negative thought >> -forms. Such shielding can be created by our own thought processes >> and/or with the help of spirit guides of the light. >> Regards, John. >Sorry for barging in, but what if the person attempting to create this >shield with "the effect of discouraging negative people" is, himself, a >negative person? Very good question ! :-) > Would there be severe consequences, or would the person >in question just get really, really discouraged? The white light acts as a deterrent to negative people and helps dissolve negative energies. If someone who is normally negative thinks of eg. a hot, bright, white light surrounding them, and/or radiating outwards from inside themselves, then this will work against external people AND themselves being negative. In other words they will feel more positive/happy. This is why this idea can be so useful for people who have negative energies/influences around them BUT don't want to be negative eg. someone living in a negative environment. Not only should the person sleep better and be more positive/confident but he/she should also have less mental/emotional/physical problems. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: GreenOak@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Astral Projection > what puts me and others off. Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 07:21:28 GMT Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 35 Message-ID: <6l5hto$2lq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> References: <35647978.5362162@news.dial.pipex.com> <01bd8602$57bb6f40$8a4c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <35714346.18856136@news.zedat.fu-berlin.de> <357ccd32.19566547@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.19.63.146 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jun 04 07:21:28 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; U) In article , The March Hare wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Jun 1998, John Fitzsimons wrote: > > > > > Creating a white light shield around oneself has the effect of > > discouraging negative people (incarnate and discarnate) from > > getting close. If one imagines this shield glowing (eg. like a flame) > > then this can have the added effect of dissolving negative thought > > -forms. Such shielding can be created by our own thought processes > > and/or with the help of spirit guides of the light. > > > > Regards, John. > > Sorry for barging in, but what if the person attempting to create this > shield with "the effect of discouraging negative people" is, himself, a > negative person? Would there be severe consequences, or would the person > in question just get really, really discouraged? > > Selah, > --Will > > Well, a shield of light around Mr. Negative will help prevent negativity from flowing to other people around him, and it will also protect any more negativity from pouring into him. Isn't that wonderful? :) Love, GreenOak -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading