Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 22:45:16 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 61 Message-ID: <3554C05C.C69C293D@ccw.ch.remove> References: <6it1b5$62$1@kronos.crosslink.net> <3553acbb.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6j0ecp$rjv@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <3553D273.536E0B4A@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) [GhoST] wrote: > > Since this is the closes thread i could come to in asking this > quesiton, has anyone been able to/attemted to go into someone elses body > during an OBE? Or you could just give me your thoughts on this matter, > i tihnk it is a quite interesting prospect. Certainly interesting. See the world from out of someone elses eyes. Experience society from the way it treats sombody else (other sex, other race, other body size). > Instead of sex-change > operations you could do soul-change operations eh? Just that there is no operation, and the body cahnging it soul is the wrong way round to look at it, so the term doesn't work. What about calling it Change of Body Experience (COBE)? That would certainly be a lot better than the operations used for missfitting sex/gender (terrifically expensive, only partially successfull (specially woman->man), requiring castration so no children). Actually there was a few months ago in an sex change NG a discussion about the sex choice of souls when incarnating. So here some questions that discussion triggered in me. Does anyone here know: Do souls even have a gender or is this from the body they live in (sort of the body and the education it garners shaping them)? If they have gender, do souls chose the sex of the body they are going to incarnate in? If they chose, why do some end up in an missfitting body (accident, missspeculation, other)? Or is the sex given based on karma (as was argued in above discussion, male for not far developed, female for the more advanced, missfitting was regarded as coming from an border case developing while chidhood but staying in the given body)? Or is it that missmaching sex is chosen by some souls as an difficult challenge to force them to develop (say learn to accept the other sexes behaviour more)? > hmm... wierd stuff.. but hey, what isnt here? :-) As if sex missmach and sex change weren't wierd :-). OOBE weird? I thought that was normal. Isn't everyone doing or trying to do it :-)? -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 22:39:18 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 61 Message-ID: <355827bc.3102206@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <6it1b5$62$1@kronos.crosslink.net> <3553acbb.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6j0ecp$rjv@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <3553D273.536E0B4A@erols.com> <3554C05C.C69C293D@ccw.ch.remove> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-44.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On Sat, 09 May 1998 22:45:16 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: < snip > >Do souls even have a gender or is this from the body they live in (sort >of the body and the education it garners shaping them)? The soul has a gender in the sense that it has a predominant leaning. For example if your last 20 lives were as a male, and you were currently female, you would probably exhibit a "maleness" irrespective of your physical gender. >If they have gender, do souls chose the sex of the body they are going >to incarnate in? Yep. In the above example more female lives would be chosen to "balance" the soul's expression better. >If they chose, why do some end up in an missfitting body (accident, >missspeculation, other)? There is no missfitting. Everything is for a reason. >Or is the sex given based on karma (as was argued in above discussion, >male for not far developed, female for the more advanced, < ROFL > Female more advanced ? Wasn't a comment made by a female was it ? < he he > Karma DOES come into it but not in any "superiority" sense. The soul needs to develop a male/female balance. "Imagined" superiority can however come into things karmically. A male who thinks men are superior will need to experience lives as a female while a female who thinks females are superior will need to experience lives as a male. >missfitting >was regarded as coming from an border case developing while chidhood but >staying in the given body)? Sometimes one feeling "out of place" sexually can be the result eg. of making people feel "out of place". For example, making refugees unwelcome and/or being racist. >Or is it that missmaching sex is chosen by some souls as an difficult >challenge to force them to develop (say learn to accept the other sexes >behaviour more)? < snip > One doesn't need mismatching to learn about the opposite sex but mismatching has it's own set of "lessons" for one to learn from. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 11 May 1998 12:13:43 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: <1998051112134301.IAA01282@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <355827bc.3102206@news.melbpc.org.au> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <355827bc.3102206@news.melbpc.org.au>, johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) writes: >< ROFL > Female more advanced ? Wasn't a comment made by a female >was it ? < he he > Karma DOES come into it but not in any >"superiority" sense. The soul needs to develop a male/female balance. >"Imagined" superiority can however come into things karmically. A male >who thinks men are superior will need to experience lives as a female >while a female who thinks females are superior will need to experience >lives as a male. alright, so where does that leave the male who thinks females are superior, or the female who thinks males are superior???? Pleasant Dreams |-) Silk Richard.Silk@Juno.Com SilkDick@aol.com Pager #615-923-1696 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!not-for-mail From: "[GhoST]" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 20:18:56 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Lines: 34 Message-ID: <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com> References: <355827bc.3102206@news.melbpc.org.au> <1998051112134301.IAA01282@ladder01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: pickone@erols.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 207-172-89-252.s61.as5.grn.erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: winter.news.erols.com 894932327 14602 207.172.89.252 (12 May 1998 00:18:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Silk Dick wrote: > > In article <355827bc.3102206@news.melbpc.org.au>, johnf@melbpc.org.au (John > Fitzsimons) writes: > > >< ROFL > Female more advanced ? Wasn't a comment made by a female > >was it ? < he he > Karma DOES come into it but not in any > >"superiority" sense. The soul needs to develop a male/female balance. > >"Imagined" superiority can however come into things karmically. A male > >who thinks men are superior will need to experience lives as a female > >while a female who thinks females are superior will need to experience > >lives as a male. > > alright, so where does that leave the male who thinks females are superior, or > the female who thinks males are superior???? > > Pleasant Dreams |-) > Silk > > Richard.Silk@Juno.Com > SilkDick@aol.com > Pager #615-923-1696 That would mean that in their past lives they were mostly male, and though males were superior, so they are now in a Female body, still thinking that males are superior (still going throng the learning process?) does this sound plausible, or is it just me rambling unintelligibly? -- GhoST - pickone@erols.com My Exciting Home Page! http://www.erols.com/pickone ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 12 May 1998 23:47:09 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <6it1b5$62$1@kronos.crosslink.net> <3553acbb.0@d2o204.telia.com> <6j0ecp$rjv@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com> <3553D273.536E0B4A@erols.com> <3554C05C.C69C293D@ccw.ch.remove> <355827bc.3102206@news.melbpc.org.au> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) wrote: > On Sat, 09 May 1998 22:45:16 +0200, Neil Franklin > >Or is the sex given based on karma (as was argued in above discussion, > >male for not far developed, female for the more advanced, > > < ROFL > Female more advanced ? Wasn't a comment made by a female > was it ? < he he > It was made by an man, but one who identifies himself as an "woman in an mans body", i.e. as feminine gender but male body. This person saw himself as "growing out" of being an man into becoming an woman. If I understand you right, you would regard this as an case of an person with lately predominantly female lives who is now doing an male one, but is not yet at one with being male. > >missfitting > >was regarded as coming from an border case developing while chidhood but > >staying in the given body)? > > Sometimes one feeling "out of place" sexually can be the result eg. of > making people feel "out of place". For example, making refugees > unwelcome and/or being racist. I was not thinking of feelings motivated by others. Rather of above case of identifying as an "woman in an male body" and feeling "out of place" from this. -- private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 13 May 1998 04:13:50 GMT Lines: 30 Message-ID: <1998051304135000.AAA04750@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com>, "[GhoST]" writes: > >That would mean that in their past lives they were mostly male, and >though males were superior, so they are now in a Female body, still >thinking that males are superior (still going throng the learning >process?) does this sound plausible, or is it just me rambling >unintelligibly? > > sounds plausible. However: who here knows the definition of a body that is in a state of equilibrium? (Hint: what is the condition of a car battery when it's in a state of equilibrium?) Answer: death. (IE: you have a dead car battery if both the positive and negative charges are in equilibrium.) SOOOooooo... let's look at a marriage: a male and female in a NOT so equal state of existence, until DEATH (equilibrium) doth parts them. This leads us to the conclusion that male and female are NOT equal. In reality, it really depends upon who wears the "pants" in the family :-) Pleasant Dreams |-) Silk Richard.Silk@Juno.Com SilkDick@aol.com Pager #615-923-1696 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.217.77.43!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!usenet From: SweetVenom@usa.net (Bob) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:00:37 GMT Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Lines: 38 Message-ID: <355944bc.3072394@news.earthlink.net> References: <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com> <1998051304135000.AAA04750@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.217.135.127 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/16.451 silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) wrote: >In article <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com>, "[GhoST]" writes: > >> >>That would mean that in their past lives they were mostly male, and >>though males were superior, so they are now in a Female body, still >>thinking that males are superior (still going throng the learning >>process?) does this sound plausible, or is it just me rambling >>unintelligibly? >> >> > >sounds plausible. However: who here knows the definition of a body that is in >a state of equilibrium? (Hint: what is the condition of a car battery when >it's in a state of equilibrium?) > >Answer: death. (IE: you have a dead car battery if both the positive and >negative charges are in equilibrium.) > >SOOOooooo... let's look at a marriage: a male and female in a NOT so equal >state of existence, until DEATH (equilibrium) doth parts them. > >This leads us to the conclusion that male and female are NOT equal. In >reality, it really depends upon who wears the "pants" in the family :-) > >Pleasant Dreams |-) >Silk > >Richard.Silk@Juno.Com >SilkDick@aol.com >Pager #615-923-1696 > But people aren't car batteries. Nor are apples, oranges. Bob Mail from or to "hotmail", "yahoo" or "juno" not read, deleted immediately upon receipt. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 13 May 1998 16:06:48 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 30 Message-ID: <6jcgeo$t44@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com> References: <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com> <1998051304135000.AAA04750@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh38-73.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Wed May 13 9:06:48 AM PDT 1998 In <1998051304135000.AAA04750@ladder01.news.aol.com> silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) writes: > >In article <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com>, "[GhoST]" writes: > >sounds plausible. However: who here knows the definition of a body >that is in a state of equilibrium? (Hint: what is the condition of a >car battery when it's in a state of equilibrium?) > >Answer: death. (IE: you have a dead car battery if both the >positive and negative charges are in equilibrium.) > >SOOOooooo... let's look at a marriage: a male and female in a NOT so >equal state of existence, until DEATH (equilibrium) doth parts them. > >This leads us to the conclusion that male and female are NOT equal. >In reality, it really depends upon who wears the "pants" in the family >:-) Sooooo... if one is wearing the pants and the other suddenly decides they want to wear the pants, the battery shorts, there is a big flame, and death of the marriage results... Where am I... What year is this? Bart ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.clark.net!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 13 May 1998 20:13:42 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1998051320134200.QAA27689@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <355944bc.3072394@news.earthlink.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <355944bc.3072394@news.earthlink.net>, SweetVenom@usa.net (Bob) writes: >But people aren't car batteries. Nor are apples, oranges. machts nicht. >Mail from or to "hotmail", "yahoo" or "juno" not read, deleted immediately >upon receipt. oh? so what's YOUR problem? Pleasant Dreams |-) Silk Richard.Silk@Juno.Com SilkDick@aol.com Pager #615-923-1696 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 13 May 1998 20:13:44 GMT Lines: 25 Message-ID: <1998051320134400.QAA02038@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <6jcgeo$t44@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <6jcgeo$t44@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>, bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) writes: > >Sooooo... if one is wearing the pants and the other suddenly decides >they want to wear the pants, the battery shorts, there is a big flame, >and death of the marriage results... > >Where am I... What year is this? some of the BEST marriages have the BEST arguments on occasion :-) The real trick is for at least ONE of the couple to have a "cooler head" and find a workable solution to the discussion. And yes, if the situation is severe enough, yes: the death of the marriage may occur. too many shorts WILL kill a battery! (or one BIG one!) Pleasant Dreams |-) Silk Richard.Silk@Juno.Com SilkDick@aol.com Pager #615-923-1696 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.erols.com!erols!not-for-mail From: "[GhoST]" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:07:33 -0400 Organization: Erol's Internet Services Lines: 43 Message-ID: <355A5FF5.4C690ED6@erols.com> References: <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com> <1998051304135000.AAA04750@ladder01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: pickone@erols.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 207-172-220-76.s69.as1.grn.erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: winter.news.erols.com 895115247 24802 207.172.220.76 (14 May 1998 03:07:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@erols.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Silk Dick wrote: > > In article <35579570.D1FA1330@erols.com>, "[GhoST]" writes: > > > > >That would mean that in their past lives they were mostly male, and > >though males were superior, so they are now in a Female body, still > >thinking that males are superior (still going throng the learning > >process?) does this sound plausible, or is it just me rambling > >unintelligibly? > > > > > > sounds plausible. However: who here knows the definition of a body that is in > a state of equilibrium? (Hint: what is the condition of a car battery when > it's in a state of equilibrium?) > > Answer: death. (IE: you have a dead car battery if both the positive and > negative charges are in equilibrium.) > > SOOOooooo... let's look at a marriage: a male and female in a NOT so equal > state of existence, until DEATH (equilibrium) doth parts them. > > This leads us to the conclusion that male and female are NOT equal. In > reality, it really depends upon who wears the "pants" in the family :-) > > Pleasant Dreams |-) > Silk > > Richard.Silk@Juno.Com > SilkDick@aol.com > Pager #615-923-1696 Let us not forget that not equal does not imply one being superior to another. Just a thought :) -- GhoST - pickone@erols.com My Exciting Home Page! http://www.erols.com/pickone ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: silkdick@aol.com (Silk Dick) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: swaping bodies (was Re: N agreement w/frdpd) Date: 14 May 1998 20:14:30 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: <1998051420143000.QAA23154@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com References: <355A5FF5.4C690ED6@erols.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <355A5FF5.4C690ED6@erols.com>, "[GhoST]" writes: > >Let us not forget that not equal does not imply one being superior to >another. > >Just a thought :) > > Like I said, depends: male superior or female superior position(s) prefered? side / lateral, Kama Sutra variations... etc... Pleasant Dreams |-) Silk Richard.Silk@Juno.Com SilkDick@aol.com Pager #615-923-1696