Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail From: xahein@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Proving obe is difficult and not important... Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 05:56:27 -0600 Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion Lines: 9 Message-ID: <6gktsr$uk4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.104.144.151 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Apr 10 10:56:27 1998 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) Why is it difficult to prove obe? Because this is a pragmatical concept that is irreductible to scientifical theory. How prove that i'm not alone in the world? How prove that the world is real? How prove that God exists? We can't prove this, we can only feel it. I was also sceptic when I was only 12 when I began studying this state of consciousness... But when I decorporate myself, I don't need clues. I know that is real. -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: speshialk@aol.com (SpeshialK) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Proving obe is difficult and not important... Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1998041016153800.MAA00849@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 10 Apr 1998 16:15:38 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6gktsr$uk4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> That argument is apples and oranges. When saying real or not real, some mean, objective or subjective, or can the experience be shared. This indeed can be proven scientifically, as many people claim, and many people try to do. ---------- Keith I smile, but I don't know why... : 0) ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: gallianoj@aol.com (GALLIANOJ) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Proving obe is difficult and not important... Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1998041215475801.LAA06356@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 12 Apr 1998 15:47:58 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6gktsr$uk4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> i dont think proving anything is important at this time. what is important is developing our skills... we have a talent that seems unbelievable to the majority of people but nonetheless we are experiencing it and so it is up to us what we are going to focus on; our own development or the forever controversy that we are "just dreaming" it doesnt matter what anyone thinks, we know what is happening to us. then let us focus on that and leave out the null and humdrum of the skeptics. eventually we will develop our skills ubtil non-disputable. if its not now, so be it... lets consentrate on our work. jean ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.gte.net!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail From: Pete Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Proving obe is difficult and not important... Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:36:09 -0500 Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 27 Message-ID: <354E8929.E9B6359C@flash.net> References: <6gktsr$uk4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlshiva4-28.flash.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) I agree with your subject. It's funny, I am returning to this newsgroup for the first time in three or four years. The same arguments are still going on. I have found that you can always tell the folks who have experienced OOBEs because they do not feel any compulsion to prove it to anyone. Yes, I have had OOBE's; about two dozen. Do I care if anyone believes me? No. I figure that if I can do it, there are others who can as well and I can communicate with them in an effort to better understand the phenomenon. As far as the doubters, I say let them doubt. They don't get it. I don't care if they say OOBEs are not real because I KNOW they are wrong. They might say that I dreamed it, imagined it, or that I am crazy. So what? Again, I know they are wrong because I have done it myself. xahein@hotmail.com wrote: > Why is it difficult to prove obe? Because this is a pragmatical concept that > is irreductible to scientifical theory. How prove that i'm not alone in the > world? How prove that the world is real? How prove that God exists? We can't > prove this, we can only feel it. I was also sceptic when I was only 12 when I > began studying this state of consciousness... But when I decorporate myself, > I don't need clues. I know that is real. > > -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading ###### Message-ID: <354FF8C7.BF8851AB@digital-ventures.com> Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:45:20 -0700 From: linda Reply-To: linda@digital-ventures.com Organization: Digital Ventures X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Proving obe is difficult and not important... References: <6gktsr$uk4$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> <354E8929.E9B6359C@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.225.107.244 X-Trace: 5 May 1998 23:30:21 +0500, 207.225.107.244 Lines: 12 X-Report: Report abuse to abuse@uswest.net. Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wli.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!207.225.107.244 Pete wrote: >I have found that you can always tell the folks who have experienced OOBEs >because they do not feel any compulsion to prove it to anyone. There was one person that I had to prove it to and that was myself. I know that we are at the mercy of our perceptions. Linda ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: zyphrhart@aol.com (Zyphr Hart) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Proving obe is difficult and not important... Lines: 27 Message-ID: <1998050617464900.NAA22284@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 06 May 1998 17:46:49 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <354FF8C7.BF8851AB@digital-ventures.com> >
>>I have found that you can always tell the folks who have experienced >OOBEs
>>because they do not feel any compulsion to prove it to anyone.
>
>There was one person that I had to prove it to and that was myself. I know >that we
>are at the mercy of our perceptions.
>
>Linda
I have begun to think that any need to prove the experience is counter productive. Both to ourselves and to others. Projection is not something new. It has been a part of us, probably, since the beginning of mankind. (I would quess.) Maybe people who don't believe have to maintain that position due to spiritual reasons? Perhaps that is a road that they don't need to travel at this moment? One thing is sure, it causes a lot of problems when the subject is brought up. I think it is wiser to simply avoid the conflict. I will gladly talk about it here, but I've learned to keep my mouth shut elsewhere. Zyphr Hart