Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!chico.franken.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!digex!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!tpgi.com.au!not-for-mail From: Darryl Peacock Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Next AP meeting Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:51:17 -0700 Organization: A Customer of TPG Internet Pty Ltd Lines: 216 Message-ID: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lak-ppp-034.tpgi.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------369B35A41DB0" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------369B35A41DB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, I'm new to Ap and haven't yet got out. I'm hoping i'll get out on the day of the Sphinx meeting thing- hoping it will be easier, from everyone doing it at the same time. Anyway, I have the best idea! The next time we arange for a meeting would should go to the face on mars! Unreal hey. I don't know if anyone knows but there's a face on mars that looks like a pharoh, a couple of 5 sided pyramids and a temple\city situated near the face. This place is collectively called Cydonia. Anyway, The Ancient egyptians based alot of their religion on AP (kinda) so what if there's a connection. Has nayone every projected there before? Well it just an idea but i think it's a good one. I have included a crappy picture but i will post a pic of all of cydonia later. rukus --------------369B35A41DB0 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="FACE.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="FACE.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgAAAQABAAD/4AnUSkZYWAAQ/9j//gAMQXBwbGVNYXJrDf/bAIQAAwIC AgICAwICAgMDAwMEBgQEBAQEBwUGBQYJCAkJCAgICAkKDQsJCg0KCAgMEAwNDg4PDw8JCxAR [snipped] UUHqKAGjqaKB1NFAFrT+SfrUNx/r3qbTup+tQ3H+vegCCSrcH3D9KqSVbg+4fpQBq2H3Pwq/ adPxNULD7n4VftOn4mgCd+1V5Cdx5qw/aq0n3jQB//4AAv/Z --------------369B35A41DB0-- ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Next AP meeting Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 16:09:33 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 34 Message-ID: <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> References: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Darryl Peacock wrote: > > I have included a crappy picture but i will post a pic of all of cydonia > later. *** No !!! *** Don't !!! *** Put the picture on an Webseite and post the URL of it. People intereted will fetch it by Web, others won't have to get angered for recieving unwanted stuff. Remember: every time you press the "post" button you are making 10'000s or 100'000 of copies of your message, some of them payed for by the recipients, who may not want them. This is not an binaries newsgroup where all readers have agreed to accept pictures and the data volume they cause. Oh: and sending posts as HTML (even without pictures) makes them unreadable for quite a few people on the net. Big volume + unreadable makes them even more angered. -- private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Next AP meeting Date: 8 Apr 1998 18:34:24 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 56 Message-ID: <6ggfvg$839@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> References: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh41-24.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Apr 08 1:34:24 PM CDT 1998 In <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch writes: > >Remember: every time you press the "post" button you are making >10'000s or 100'000 of copies of your message, some of them payed for >by the recipients, who may not want them. > >This is not an binaries newsgroup where all readers have agreed to >accept pictures and the data volume they cause. Hi Neil, I've heard this arguement before. I agree with it to an extent, but for the most part, I don't. I don't mean to shoot for your bad side so please don't think I'm getting on your case. I have a very simple news reader, but it gives me an opportunity to see all the messages before I download them so I can choose to do so or not. Other newsreaders are more advanced and not only allow viewing the size of the article, but can be made to filter binaries out if the post is marked with .jpg, bmp, etc... I don't see an occasional binary as being a problem. Personally, I would rather have the opportunity to view an 'on topic' picture right here instead of having to get out of my regular browser, load up netscape, find a webpage, and search for one single little picture... I only have a 386 20mhz with a 14,4 modem. Web pages are e-x-t-r-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-m-l-y s-l-o-w... Now, you can say, "Well, Bart, if you aren't happy with the fact that you've got a dinosaur for a computer - then upgrade." But then I will just say, "Well, Neil, if people are angered by long posts of things they aren't interested in, then they should look at what they are downloading and if they can't filter it out with their present equipment, then THEY should upgrade. This IS an .alt group and you are liable to run into just about anything here, so an occasional binary or some other huge file is probably going to cost someone money if they just download everything without looking at the file first. You are correct in bringing it to the attention of a poster that it is against usenet etiquette to post a binary to a non-binary group. But the ultimate responsibility for one's wallet lies with the person who owns that wallet. In my case, if I were paying for every minute of online time, I would go broke fooling around with websites - but that's my problem... Usenet etiquette has not really been changed for many years - but the equipment available to access it has improved dramatically and very few people are affected by an occassional binary nowadays. If someone's machine is so ancient that they are seriously affected by such a post, then they can't get into a website to view the picture either. Just some thoughts. Obviously you hit a soft spot for me :-) I hope you don't take offense at my attitude. I assure you, I do not take offense at yours and did what I could to avoid making this sound like a flame. Bart ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!205.237.233.10!wesley.videotron.net!Pollux.Teleglobe.net!orion.cst.tpsa.pl!news.icm.edu.pl!lublin.pl!not-for-mail From: figurap@kki.net.pl (Przemek Figura) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Next AP meeting Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 20:16:37 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <352bc158.4317209@news.lublin.pl> References: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp4-133.warszawa.tpnet.pl X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 18:51:17 -0700, Darryl Peacock wrote: >Hi, I'm new to Ap and haven't yet got out. I'm hoping i'll get out on >the day of the Sphinx meeting thing- hoping it will be easier, from >everyone doing it at the same time. Anyway, I have the best idea! The >next time we arange for a meeting would should go to the face on mars! >Unreal hey. >I don't know if anyone knows but there's a face on mars that looks like >a pharoh, a couple of 5 sided pyramids and a temple\city situated near >the face. This place is collectively called Cydonia. Anyway, The Ancient >egyptians based alot of their religion on AP (kinda) so what if there's >a connection. Has nayone every projected there before? Well it just an >idea but i think it's a good one. >I have included a crappy picture but i will post a pic of all of cydonia >later. >rukus Have You seen the newest photos form Mars, Cydonia, Face? If not, then better do it. The "face" is NOT face. There is no any face on Mars. Sad but true... Przemek Figura e-mail: figurap@kki.net.pl ICQ UIN: 8572481 ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Next AP meeting Date: Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:22:09 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 112 Message-ID: <352D2DF1.6B5A1051@ccw.ch> References: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> <6ggfvg$839@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.27 i486) Bart Scott wrote: > > In <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch writes: > > > >Remember: every time you press the "post" button you are making > >10'000s or 100'000 of copies of your message, some of them payed for > >by the recipients, who may not want them. > > > >This is not an binaries newsgroup where all readers have agreed to > >accept pictures and the data volume they cause. > > please don't think I'm getting on your case. I don't think you are doing so. Just that you may want to reconsider after reading the rest of this. > I have a very simple news > reader, but it gives me an opportunity to see all the messages before I > download them so I can choose to do so or not. Other newsreaders are > more advanced and not only allow viewing the size of the article, but > can be made to filter binaries out if the post is marked with .jpg, > bmp, etc... Well I actually use an nice and new one which can also show headers and then selectively download. BUT: To save phone costs I use an batch downloader (we are talking here 3-7 min a day at $0.60 per min, so that is avg $90 a month!). This is a program that snarfs all messages of the 6 NGs I read, as fast as possible. The time online saved, that I would need to scan all headers and selectively download, far outways the occasional binary that comes (I should add that I drop any NG that I read less than 50% of, a.oob has lasted 3 months). The program I use can only filter on size (it is set to kill anything larger than 1000 lines). I know of no other one with better controls that will still run on my ancient system. Guess why I can't wait until the CaTV people start their Internet offer in about 1/2 year. They are talking $50 for modem rental + ISP + connection. > I don't see an occasional binary as being a problem. Actually I fear the runaway copycat effect. 1, then few, then more, soon it is too much. > Personally, I would rather have the opportunity to view an 'on topic' > picture right here instead of having to get out of my regular browser, > load up netscape, find a webpage, and search for one single little > picture... Well I read news in Netscape, so it is more dial-up and click :-) I agree on that being a problem for those using separate programs. May I suggest the creation of an new newsgroup alt.out-of-body.binaries as an proper solution? > I only have a 386 20mhz with a 14,4 modem. Web pages are > e-x-t-r-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-m-l-y s-l-o-w... Me an 486, with also an 14.4 modem. > This IS an .alt group and you are liable to run into just about > anything here An alt.* but not an *.binaries.* > so an occasional binary or some other huge file is > probably going to cost someone money if they just download everything > without looking at the file first. Which is unfortunately the only payable variant. > Usenet etiquette has not really been changed for many years - but the > equipment available to access it has improved dramatically and very few > people are affected by an occassional binary nowadays. Unfortunately it most likely will not stay occasional. Combat the beginnings, as we say over here. > If someone's > machine is so ancient that they are seriously affected by such a post, > then they can't get into a website to view the picture either. They most likely wouldn't go to the website (or only to a few that really interest them). The web would be for those with better equipment or deeper pockets. > Just some thoughts. Obviously you hit a soft spot for me :-) I hope > you don't take offense at my attitude. I assure you, I do not take > offense at yours and did what I could to avoid making this sound like a > flame. No offense taken. Just a soft spot to defend :-) -- private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ office: franklin.remove.this@arch.ethz.ch http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/ Can a Microsoft allergy be claimed on job health insurence? ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!newsfeed2.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!203.12.176.153!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!news.netspace.net.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Next AP meeting Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 23:09:58 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 118 Message-ID: <3535b0e1.8437457@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> <6ggfvg$839@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-8.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On 8 Apr 1998 18:34:24 GMT, bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) wrote: >In <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch writes: >>Remember: every time you press the "post" button you are making >>10'000s or 100'000 of copies of your message, some of them payed for >>by the recipients, who may not want them. >>This is not an binaries newsgroup where all readers have agreed to >>accept pictures and the data volume they cause. >Hi Neil, >I've heard this arguement before. Good. It is a sound argument. Fortunately Neil made his post, so now those who didn't know these things will be informed. >I agree with it to an extent, but >for the most part, I don't. I don't mean to shoot for your bad side so >please don't think I'm getting on your case. I have a very simple news >reader, but it gives me an opportunity to see all the messages before I >download them so I can choose to do so or not. Fine, but there are a very large number of people who download both bodies and headers together. >Other newsreaders are >more advanced and not only allow viewing the size of the article, but >can be made to filter binaries out if the post is marked with .jpg, >bmp, etc... I don't see an occasional binary as being a problem. Binary newsgroups are made for binaries. Why do you have a problem with that idea ? >Personally, I would rather have the opportunity to view an 'on topic' >picture right here instead of having to get out of my regular browser, >load up netscape, find a webpage, and search for one single little >picture... I only have a 386 20mhz with a 14,4 modem. Web pages are >e-x-t-r-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-m-l-y s-l-o-w... Fine. You have a slow computer so thousands of people have to download binaries to accommodate you ? >Now, you can say, "Well, Bart, if you aren't happy with the fact that >you've got a dinosaur for a computer - then upgrade." Good idea. > But then I will >just say, "Well, Neil, if people are angered by long posts of things >they aren't interested in, then they should look at what they are >downloading and if they can't filter it out with their present >equipment, then THEY should upgrade. No, binary newsgroups were established so that people didn't need to spend the time/cost of downloading binaries in non-binary newsgroups. If you believe that the world bodies who established usenet protocols have "got it all wrong" then why not join one of these bodies and argue for a change ? >This IS an .alt group and you are liable to run into just about >anything here, so an occasional binary or some other huge file is >probably going to cost someone money if they just download everything >without looking at the file first. Yes, quite correct. Some people are very inconsiderate of others. >You are correct in bringing it to >the attention of a poster that it is against usenet etiquette to post a >binary to a non-binary group. But the ultimate responsibility for >one's wallet lies with the person who owns that wallet. In my case, if >I were paying for every minute of online time, I would go broke fooling >around with websites - but that's my problem... If everyone "did their own thing" then we would have many binaries in non-binary newsgroups. Even if one only downloads headers it takes time to sort out what not to download. By following established practice in non-binary newsgroups everyone is saved from this exercise. >Usenet etiquette has not really been changed for many years - Why should a system that works fairly well need to be changed ? The reasons for established practises being setup are still valid. It is still faster to download a newsgroup if it has no binaries in. > but the >equipment available to access it has improved dramatically and very few >people are affected by an occassional binary nowadays. If someone's >machine is so ancient that they are seriously affected by such a post, >then they can't get into a website to view the picture either. Incorrect. Many newsreaders do NOT have newsgroup killfiles. Unless things have changed recently I believe that none of the Netscapes will filter out newsgroup binary downloads. I think Explorer is the same. These people are all affected by binaries unless they waste heaps of time getting headers and then sorting out what to get/not get. >Just some thoughts. Obviously you hit a soft spot for me :-) I hope >you don't take offense at my attitude. I assure you, I do not take >offense at yours and did what I could to avoid making this sound like a >flame. Depends how you define "flame". Some people consider any "alternative" opinion to be a "flame". Take this one any way you like. Suggesting people ignore established/well considered ways of doing things is not useful IMO. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nntp.telstra.net!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Next AP meeting Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:35:56 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 53 Message-ID: <35340963.9068344@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <352AD815.6C45@tpgi.com.au> <352B851D.4DE466CF@ccw.ch> <6ggfvg$839@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> <352D2DF1.6B5A1051@ccw.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-8.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 On Thu, 09 Apr 1998 22:22:09 +0200, Neil Franklin wrote: >Bart Scott wrote: < snip > >> I don't see an occasional binary as being a problem. >Actually I fear the runaway copycat effect. 1, then few, then more, soon >it is too much. Yep. These things start with JUST one binary. Then another. Then another etc. < snip > >I agree on that being a problem for those using separate programs. I doubt that many people who visit newsgroups don't have browsers so visiting a web site to see a binary shouldn't be difficult for most people. >May I >suggest the creation of an new newsgroup alt.out-of-body.binaries as an >proper solution? Creating a newsgroup can take some time. Why bother ? There are already newsgroups created that are specifically for miscellaneous binaries. One just needs to put their binary there and tell people where to look. < snip > >> This IS an .alt group and you are liable to run into just about >> anything here >An alt.* but not an *.binaries.* Exactly. Binary newsgroups were created so that people could..... put binaries in them ! :-) :-) < snip > Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/