From: "Gregg Blatz" Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: OBE Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:06:32 -0700 Organization: Telus Advanced Communications Lines: 4 Message-ID: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.185.3.120 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.172.150.11!news1.bellglobal.com!news.agtac.net!marcello.augustana.ab.ca!zeus.cable-lynx.net!199.185.3.214 Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:289 alt.out-of-body:389 Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when you are experienceing and out of body experience? ###### From: Darkusus de Persin Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:22 +0100 Organization: The World of the Light Lines: 12 Message-ID: <34C758B2.FA76967A@geocities.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> Reply-To: persinus@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp2-lj3.arnes.si Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.ecrc.net!newscore.univie.ac.at!cmir.arnes.si!kanja.arnes.si!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:292 alt.out-of-body:390 Gregg Blatz wrote: > Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > you are experienceing and out of body experience? I think it is possible. -- -=> Let the good spirits be with you. <=- http://www.i-rose.si/users/ddpersin/ -=> Darkusus de Persin <=- ###### From: "rbwalton" Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:02:57 -0800 Organization: Verio Northern California's Usenet News Service Lines: 27 Message-ID: <6a8tp3$8p0$1@news.ncal.verio.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C758B2.FA76967A@geocities.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: inakka20.dcsi.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.20.0.50!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!news.ncal.verio.com!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:299 alt.out-of-body:393 It may be possible, but after 30 years or so, I have not ever been concerned with it, and as far as I know it has not happened to me. . . . But maybe I am not the best judge of that. ;-) -- To respond, delete #nospam# rbwalton@#nospam#outrageous.net Or, visit web page for some useful links. . . www.angelfire.com/ca/onestepbeyond/ Darkusus de Persin wrote in message <34C758B2.FA76967A@geocities.com>... >Gregg Blatz wrote: > >> Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when >> you are experienceing and out of body experience? > >I think it is possible. > >-- >-=> Let the good spirits be with you. <=- >http://www.i-rose.si/users/ddpersin/ >-=> Darkusus de Persin <=- > ###### From: gerrit@auracom.com (Gerrit K Deppe) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:06:25 -0400 Organization: Auracom Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2b-16.hfx.auracom.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uunet.ca!news.auracom.net!ts2b-16.hfx.auracom.com!user Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:296 alt.out-of-body:392 In article <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net>, "Gregg Blatz" wrote: > Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > you are experienceing and out of body experience? If you are weak, then maybe. Weakness allows other spirits to enter your personal space. 1+1=0 On the other hand, sometimes its quite nice to have other spirits enter your persoanl space. 1+1=1 Gerrit "The Bavarian Illuminati does not exist" - brought to you by the Bavarian Illuminati ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:19:25 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 31 Message-ID: <34c8b612.2595456@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-28.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!newsxfer.visi.net!nntp.texas.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!ozemail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!news.netspace.net.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:295 alt.out-of-body:391 On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:06:32 -0700, "Gregg Blatz" wrote: >Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when >you are experienceing and out of body experience? Yep. You don't even need to be fully out of your body to have another entity partly in yours. The term for this is generally "obsession". If someone else takes total control of your body then you will probably have little/no knowledge of what they are doing. The term for that is generally "possession". You can reduce the likelihood of either situation occurring by ; (1) Reducing the drinking of alcohol as much as possible. (2) Reducing the taking of drugs as much as possible. (3) Having a positive attitude/thoughts. (4) Not messing around with psychic things one doesn't fully understand eg. ouija board. (5) Setting up "psychic protection" eg. before sleep. There is more on this topic on my vicnet pages. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: Shaun Case Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:17:52 -0700 Organization: Netcom Lines: 7 Message-ID: <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: den-co25-05.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jan 23 3:18:46 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.alt.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:309 alt.out-of-body:412 Gregg Blatz wrote: > > Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > you are experienceing and out of body experience? absolutely not. ###### From: Shaun Case Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:18:40 -0700 Organization: Netcom Lines: 35 Message-ID: <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34c8b612.2595456@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: den-co25-05.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jan 23 3:19:34 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.alt.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:308 alt.out-of-body:411 John Fitzsimons wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:06:32 -0700, "Gregg Blatz" > wrote: > > >Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > >you are experienceing and out of body experience? > > Yep. You don't even need to be fully out of your body to have another > entity partly in yours. The term for this is generally "obsession". If > someone else takes total control of your body then you will probably > have little/no knowledge of what they are doing. The term for that is > generally "possession". > > You can reduce the likelihood of either situation occurring by ; > > (1) Reducing the drinking of alcohol as much as possible. > (2) Reducing the taking of drugs as much as possible. > (3) Having a positive attitude/thoughts. > (4) Not messing around with psychic things one doesn't fully > understand eg. ouija board. > (5) Setting up "psychic protection" eg. before sleep. There is more > on this topic on my vicnet pages. > > Regards, John. > > **************************************************** > ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. > / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 > \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm > v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ > I'm sorry, Jon, but you are incorrect. ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 24 Jan 1998 03:11:47 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 83 Message-ID: <6abm5j$jch@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34c8b612.2595456@news.melbpc.org.au> <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh44-40.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jan 23 7:11:47 PM PST 1998 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.he.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:311 alt.out-of-body:413 In <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> Shaun Case writes: > >John Fitzsimons wrote: >> >> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:06:32 -0700, "Gregg Blatz" >> wrote: >> >> >Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another >>>spirit when you are experienceing and out of body experience? >> >> Yep. You don't even need to be fully out of your body to have >>another entity partly in yours. The term for this is generally >>"obsession". If someone else takes total control of your body then >>you will probably have little/no knowledge of what they are doing. >>The term for that is generally "possession". >> >> You can reduce the likelihood of either situation occurring by ; >> >> (1) Reducing the drinking of alcohol as much as possible. >> (2) Reducing the taking of drugs as much as possible. >> (3) Having a positive attitude/thoughts. >> (4) Not messing around with psychic things one doesn't fully >> understand eg. ouija board. >> (5) Setting up "psychic protection" eg. before sleep. There is more >> on this topic on my vicnet pages. >> >> Regards, John. > I'm sorry, Jon, but you are incorrect. So, um, Shaun, you mean you CAN'T reduce the likelihood of being possessed by: >> (1) Reducing the drinking of alcohol as much as possible. >> (2) Reducing the taking of drugs as much as possible. >> (3) Having a positive attitude/thoughts. >> (4) Not messing around with psychic things one doesn't fully >> understand eg. ouija board. >> (5) Setting up "psychic protection" ??? All of the above can be viewed as methods of avoiding mental illness. If someone wants to refer to mental illness as possession then I see nothing wrong with that. After all, a flu is, in reality, being possessed by/of a virus. You can't see it with the naked eye so it could be considered a spirit as well. (1) Alcohol is referred to as 'spirits'. An alcoholic could very easily be considered to be possessed by spirits. (2) Drugs are in pretty much the same catagory as alcohol. (3) Having positive attitude/thoughts is a proven spiritual method of reducing the impact of mental illness (as well as other illnesses). (4) Whether you (Shaun, personally) believe in spirits or not, a preoccupation with conjuring them up or ignorantly fooling around with your mental state can lead to certain forms of mental illness as it tends to split thought processes/patterns. (5) Setting up "psychic protection"? How about just saying your prayers before going to bed? Commonly taught to children, and though I've seen no actual studies done, I wouldn't be surprised to find that it helps to reduce the number of nightmares one may encounter. In this instance, Shaun, you might want to consider item #3. Avoid shitting on everything that sounds a bit out of your little world and you may just find it has some value. Here's another little hint. Those who deny the existance of spirits, with such a passion as you have shown, are most likely possessed by the nastiest of all evil spirits. Evil spirits are known to deny their own existance. Anybody got a match? :-) Bart ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:28:56 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 31 Message-ID: <34cc5ca8.2564075@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: b2-33.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!198.6.0.87!uunet!in4.uu.net!ozemail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!news.netspace.net.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:321 alt.out-of-body:435 On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:17:52 -0700, Shaun Case wrote: >Gregg Blatz wrote: >> Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when >> you are experienceing and out of body experience? > absolutely not. Always good to see these well reasoned, and detailed, replies to posts. Always gets people thinking. :-) For those having difficulty with "concepts" ; If *you* can get out of, and into, your own physical body then so can others. :-) You/others can get in/out of your (motor) vehicle. You/others can get in/out of your (physical) vehicle. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: coldblast Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:20:46 -0500 Organization: Netcom Lines: 10 Message-ID: <34CB584E.5C85@journalist.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> Reply-To: cathy@journalist.com NNTP-Posting-Host: nyc-ny67-44.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Sun Jan 25 7:21:02 AM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03GoldC-AcIS (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!204.186.0.13.MISMATCH!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!fastnet!news-xfer.netaxs.com!netnews.com!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:330 alt.out-of-body:475 Gregg Blatz wrote: > > Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > you are experienceing and out of body experience? My mother would often have out of body experiences and always felt a certain rush to get back to her body before it was too late. She always felt she couldn't stay too long or she wouldn't be able to go back. She said it might have been a warning for possible possession. She hasn't o-b-e in a long time, but is going to start back soon. Cat ###### From: Dave Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:50:41 -0700 Organization: inQuo Internet (801) 530-7160 Lines: 28 Distribution: world Message-ID: <34CCB0D0.54FB2316@ictnet.net> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34cc5ca8.2564075@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.179.26.195 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.0.56.122!news.eli.net!inquo!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:342 alt.out-of-body:505 John Fitzsimons wrote: > Always good to see these well reasoned, and detailed, replies to > posts. Always gets people thinking. :-) > > For those having difficulty with "concepts" ; > > If *you* can get out of, and into, your own physical body then so can > others. :-) > > You/others can get in/out of your (motor) vehicle. You/others can get > in/out of your (physical) vehicle. > > Regards, John. People can get in and out of your "vehicle". But that doesn't always mean they have the "keys" to start it. I wonder if invading spirits are capable of controlling and manipulating your body, or if they can only influence your thoughts once you return? Something to think about. Dave ###### From: Shaun Case Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:40:47 -0700 Organization: Netcom Lines: 43 Message-ID: <34CD10EF.66B2@nospam.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34cc5ca8.2564075@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: den-co28-42.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jan 26 2:41:44 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:350 alt.out-of-body:507 John Fitzsimons wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:17:52 -0700, Shaun Case > wrote: > > >Gregg Blatz wrote: > > >> Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > >> you are experienceing and out of body experience? > > > absolutely not. > > Always good to see these well reasoned, and detailed, replies to > posts. Always gets people thinking. :-) > > For those having difficulty with "concepts" ; > > If *you* can get out of, and into, your own physical body then so can > others. :-) > > You/others can get in/out of your (motor) vehicle. You/others can get > in/out of your (physical) vehicle. > > Regards, John. > > **************************************************** > ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. > / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 > \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm > v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ > Wrongo, John. My answer was simple and to the point because that's all there is to say. What you are discussing is nothing more than "popular myth" propogated by unwitting folks who don't have the understanding of the "after life" that some of us do. Much as people less than 300 years ago were sure that witches ran amuck and destroyed their lives, causing many people with "gifts" to be put to death, simply out of ignorance. If you wish to propogate ignorance, that is your right, but I will still tell others that you are wrong. Shaun. ###### From: Shaun Case Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:47:22 -0700 Organization: Netcom Lines: 104 Message-ID: <34CD127A.4BDE@nospam.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34c8b612.2595456@news.melbpc.org.au> <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> <6abm5j$jch@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: den-co28-42.ix.netcom.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jan 26 2:48:20 PM PST 1998 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (WinNT; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!204.186.0.13.MISMATCH!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:351 alt.out-of-body:508 Bart Scott wrote: > > In <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> Shaun Case > writes: > > > >John Fitzsimons wrote: > >> > >> On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:06:32 -0700, "Gregg Blatz" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another > >>>spirit when you are experienceing and out of body experience? > >> > >> Yep. You don't even need to be fully out of your body to have > >>another entity partly in yours. The term for this is generally > >>"obsession". If someone else takes total control of your body then > >>you will probably have little/no knowledge of what they are doing. > >>The term for that is generally "possession". > >> > >> You can reduce the likelihood of either situation occurring by ; > >> > >> (1) Reducing the drinking of alcohol as much as possible. > >> (2) Reducing the taking of drugs as much as possible. > >> (3) Having a positive attitude/thoughts. > >> (4) Not messing around with psychic things one doesn't fully > >> understand eg. ouija board. > >> (5) Setting up "psychic protection" eg. before sleep. There is more > >> on this topic on my vicnet pages. > >> > >> Regards, John. > > > I'm sorry, Jon, but you are incorrect. > > So, um, Shaun, you mean you CAN'T reduce the likelihood of being > possessed by: > > >> (1) Reducing the drinking of alcohol as much as possible. > >> (2) Reducing the taking of drugs as much as possible. > >> (3) Having a positive attitude/thoughts. > >> (4) Not messing around with psychic things one doesn't fully > >> understand eg. ouija board. > >> (5) Setting up "psychic protection" > > ??? > > All of the above can be viewed as methods of avoiding mental illness. > If someone wants to refer to mental illness as possession then I see > nothing wrong with that. After all, a flu is, in reality, being > possessed by/of a virus. You can't see it with the naked eye so it > could be considered a spirit as well. > > (1) Alcohol is referred to as 'spirits'. An alcoholic could very > easily be considered to be possessed by spirits. > > (2) Drugs are in pretty much the same catagory as alcohol. > > (3) Having positive attitude/thoughts is a proven spiritual method of > reducing the impact of mental illness (as well as other illnesses). > > (4) Whether you (Shaun, personally) believe in spirits or not, a > preoccupation with conjuring them up or ignorantly fooling around with > your mental state can lead to certain forms of mental illness as it > tends to split thought processes/patterns. > > (5) Setting up "psychic protection"? How about just saying your > prayers before going to bed? Commonly taught to children, and though > I've seen no actual studies done, I wouldn't be surprised to find that > it helps to reduce the number of nightmares one may encounter. > > In this instance, Shaun, you might want to consider item #3. Avoid > shitting on everything that sounds a bit out of your little world and > you may just find it has some value. > > Here's another little hint. Those who deny the existance of spirits, > with such a passion as you have shown, are most likely possessed by the > nastiest of all evil spirits. Evil spirits are known to deny their own > existance. > > Anybody got a match? > > :-) > > Bart Well, Bart, I see that you haven't been in this group long. If you had, or if you had paid attention to earlier posts, you'd know that I believe whole-heartedly in spirits. In fact I've been "dead" myself, happened about 7 years ago. My world is far from being little, Bart. On the contrary, I have experienced oneness with everything. I have heard the voices of billions of people all at once, I have seen the after life, Bart. I haven't "shat" on anything that the other person said, you have, you are the one who has demonstrated a lack of ability to grasp that, with which, you are unfamiliar, Bart. I have NOT demonstrated a denial of the existance of spirits, Bart, I in fact am proof that they do exist. Here's a hint for you: Make sure you have all the facts before you jump on your soapbox, to rattle off speaches about other people's motives and intentions. You are the one who has demonstrated a lack of understanding and a total lack of consideration toward new ideas. Here's another hint: Grow up. Shaun. ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:43:46 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 27 Message-ID: <34d90e85.6924856@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34cc5ca8.2564075@news.melbpc.org.au> <34CCB0D0.54FB2316@ictnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: b2-1.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news.he.net!Supernews60!supernews.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!ozemail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!news.netspace.net.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:346 alt.out-of-body:506 On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:50:41 -0700, Dave wrote: < snip > >I wonder if invading spirits are capable of controlling and manipulating your >body, Yep. They sure can. Next time you come across a drunk who behaved badly and "didn't know what got into him" then keep this in mind. >or if they can only influence your thoughts once you return? They can do either. It depends on the comparative strength of the mind of the invading/influencing entity compared to the strength of the mind of the owner of the physical body. Drinking/drug taking etc. make things easier for the invading entity. Drinkers/druggies are often partly out of their bodies. Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 27 Jan 1998 03:16:19 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 58 Message-ID: <6ajji3$hrt@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34c8b612.2595456@news.melbpc.org.au> <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> <6abm5j$jch@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com> <34CD127A.4BDE@nospam.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh44-05.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jan 26 7:16:19 PM PST 1998 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!newsfeed.wli.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.214.99.1!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:355 alt.out-of-body:509 In <34CD127A.4BDE@nospam.ix.netcom.com> Shaun Case writes: >> > I'm sorry, Jon, but you are incorrect. This is the one-liner I replied to. If you would care to back it up then I am quite capable of eating humble pie. I truly think that if you are going to tell someone that they are incorrect then you should back your statement up with a little more effort at enlightening that individual as well as others who will be reading your post looking for bits of gold. Otherwise people might misunderstand your attitude/experience (or lack of...) > Well, Bart, I see that you haven't been in this group long. I've avoided it for a while because I lost the groove AND had a lot of earthly mundane things to do. > My world is far from being little, Bart. How could I possibly know that from your little crossposted comment to John? >On the contrary, I have >experienced oneness with everything. How very special. >I haven't "shat" on anything that the other person said, you have, you >are the one who has demonstrated a lack of ability to grasp that, with >which, you are unfamiliar, Bart. I demonstrated a lack of understanding regarding a few one-liner pompous posts you made. I appreciate your extended response to my comments if only for the fact that it tells me a bit more of where you are coming from. >I have NOT demonstrated a denial of >the existance of spirits, Bart, I in fact am proof that they do exist. Aren't we all... > Here's a hint for you: Make sure you have all the facts before you >jump on your soapbox, to rattle off speaches about other people's >motives and intentions. You are the one who has demonstrated a lack >of understanding and a total lack of consideration toward new ideas. Perhaps you might consider looking in the archives. Or not... It's up to you. Sorry I returned a little late and missed your glorious arrival into the NDE NG. > Here's another hint: Grow up. I think I'm about as tall as I'm gonna get. Mind if I just expand? Bart ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 27 Jan 1998 03:48:52 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 51 Message-ID: <6ajlf4$83l@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34cc5ca8.2564075@news.melbpc.org.au> <34CD10EF.66B2@nospam.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh44-05.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Jan 26 9:48:52 PM CST 1998 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!131.103.1.116!news2.chicago.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newspump.sol.net!sol.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:357 alt.out-of-body:510 In <34CD10EF.66B2@nospam.ix.netcom.com> Shaun Case writes: > >John Fitzsimons wrote: >> >> On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:17:52 -0700, Shaun Case >> wrote: >> >> >Gregg Blatz wrote: >> >> >> Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another >>>>spirit when you are experienceing and out of body experience? >> > absolutely not. To me, Shaun, your answer here is simply that you do not know if your body is able to be 'possesed' by another spirit when you are experiencing an OBE. There is no explanation. You just make a two word statement and leave it to the reader to interpret it. It is very easy to see you don't want to help people understand what you think and that you have a negative attitude. It looks to me that you just want to tell them that either they are wrong or you don't have a clue. > Wrongo, John. My answer was simple and to the point because that's >all there is to say. Wrongo, Shaun. If you are going to tell someone they are wrong (and still remain a positive influence) you need to give some examples of what makes you right. To simply go up to someone and tell them they are wrong is a verdict without a trial. >What you are discussing is nothing more than >"popular myth" propogated by unwitting folks who don't have the >understanding of the "after life" that some of us do. Then add your boundless wisdom to the discussion. >If you wish to propogate ignorance, that is your >right, but I will still tell others that you are wrong. > > Shaun. You have a right to enlighten us as well. If you are just going to go around telling people that they are wrong without giving them and others the dignity of an explanation about where they were wrong then you only make yourself look like a snot. (ooops... excuse me Scott - I wasn't talking about you). Bart ###### From: "Evelyn" Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 27 Jan 1998 08:15:24 GMT Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 28 Message-ID: <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lash8-118.flash.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:358 alt.out-of-body:511 Shaun Case wrote in article <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com>... > Gregg Blatz wrote: > > > > Does anyone know if your body is able to be possesed by another spirit when > > you are experienceing and out of body experience? > > > absolutely not. > I can say that I have been out of body many times that I can remember, and in none of them did I ever have problems with hostile entities. When I was in High School, I knew several people who would discuss out of body trips regularly, and never did any of them have any such problems ever (and they went out a lot). They did say that on occasion they would allow someone else to take over their body. This would be a spirit they knew and recognized to be friendly. They would have the option of kicking out the entity at any time, like if Mom was knocking on the front door, etc. At the time, I was not sure if these people were entirely sane, although they seemed so in every other way. I only knew that they believed in what they were saying. Now that I have learned more about OOBEs, I believe what they told me. I also believe, and this is just my personal opinion, that hostile entities can only harm you if you allow them to by not demanding that they get out and stay out! -Evelyn ###### From: Trish Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:07:31 -0500 Organization: gte.net Lines: 63 Message-ID: <6amar9$s16$1@gte2.gte.net> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34c8b612.2595456@news.melbpc.org.au> <34C92550.41D@ix.netcom.com> <6abm5j$jch@sjx-ixn7.ix.netcom.com> <34CD127A.4BDE@nospam.ix.netcom.com> <6ajji3$hrt@sjx-ixn10.ix.netcom.com> Reply-To: capuchin@gte.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust99.tnt2.new-port-richey.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: D5009D1411D1CD9D11968491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.251.127.50!newsfeed.gte.net!news.gte.net!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:370 alt.out-of-body:552 Bart Scott wrote: > > In <34CD127A.4BDE@nospam.ix.netcom.com> Shaun Case > writes: > > >> > I'm sorry, Jon, but you are incorrect. > > This is the one-liner I replied to. If you would care to back it up > then I am quite capable of eating humble pie. > > I truly think that if you are going to tell someone that they are > incorrect then you should back your statement up with a little more > effort at enlightening that individual as well as others who will be > reading your post looking for bits of gold. Otherwise people might > misunderstand your attitude/experience (or lack of...) > > > Well, Bart, I see that you haven't been in this group long. > > I've avoided it for a while because I lost the groove AND had a lot of > earthly mundane things to do. > > > My world is far from being little, Bart. > > How could I possibly know that from your little crossposted comment to > John? > > >On the contrary, I have > >experienced oneness with everything. > > How very special. > > >I haven't "shat" on anything that the other person said, you have, you > >are the one who has demonstrated a lack of ability to grasp that, with > >which, you are unfamiliar, Bart. > > I demonstrated a lack of understanding regarding a few one-liner > pompous posts you made. I appreciate your extended response to my > comments if only for the fact that it tells me a bit more of where you > are coming from. > > >I have NOT demonstrated a denial of > >the existance of spirits, Bart, I in fact am proof that they do exist. > > Aren't we all... > > > Here's a hint for you: Make sure you have all the facts before you > >jump on your soapbox, to rattle off speaches about other people's > >motives and intentions. You are the one who has demonstrated a lack > >of understanding and a total lack of consideration toward new ideas. > > Perhaps you might consider looking in the archives. Or not... It's up > to you. Sorry I returned a little late and missed your glorious > arrival into the NDE NG. > > > Here's another hint: Grow up. > > I think I'm about as tall as I'm gonna get. Mind if I just expand? > > Bart Hahahahahahahaha. Gotta love ya, Bart. :D Trish ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:23:56 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 63 Message-ID: <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-57.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!Supernews60!supernews.com!uunet!in4.uu.net!ozemail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!news.netspace.net.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:376 alt.out-of-body:587 On 27 Jan 1998 08:15:24 GMT, "Evelyn" wrote: < snip > >I can say that I have been out of body many times that I can remember, and >in none of them did I ever have problems with hostile entities. I know people who do not lock their house up. They haven't had any burglaries either. I doubt that I could use their experience to prove that burglars don't exist. :-) > When I was >in High School, I knew several people who would discuss out of body trips There is a big difference about "discussing OOBs" and actually doing them. >regularly, and never did any of them have any such problems ever (and they >went out a lot). Plenty of people fantasise about consciously going OOB. What proof did you have that they were doing this ? >They did say that on occasion they would allow someone >else to take over their body. This would be a spirit they knew and >recognized to be friendly. Locking your house up doesn't mean that burglars don't exist. If someone has a guide of the light look after their body while they are gone then that doesn't negate the idea of negative entities either. Probably the opposite ! >They would have the option of kicking out the entity at any time, One doesn't "kick out" a guide. A polite request is all that is needed. >like if Mom was knocking on the front door, etc. At >the time, I was not sure if these people were entirely sane, although they >seemed so in every other way. I only knew that they believed in what they >were saying. Now that I have learned more about OOBEs, I believe what they >told me. I also believe, and this is just my personal opinion, that >hostile entities can only harm you if you allow them to by not demanding >that they get out and stay out! Why should a hostile entity follow your orders ? A "joke" right ? Most hostile entities would only react to your "orders" by laughing. I suppose if they are ROFL they might roll out of your physical body though. . < g > Your last comment is about as sensible as suggesting to a woman being raped that she should request her rapist to stop and never come near her again. Yea.......sure ! Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 28 Jan 1998 02:09:48 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 20 Message-ID: <6am41c$6t1@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh40-06.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Tue Jan 27 8:09:48 PM CST 1998 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news.he.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspump.sol.net!sol.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:368 alt.out-of-body:551 In <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) writes: > >On 27 Jan 1998 08:15:24 GMT, "Evelyn" wrote: > >< snip > > >>I can say that I have been out of body many times that I can >>remember, andin none of them did I ever have problems with hostile >>entities. >I know people who do not lock their house up. They haven't had any >burglaries either. Um... would you consider sending me their addresses? :-) Bart ###### From: Kopfjaeger Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:10:54 +0000 Organization: Heimdall Associates Lines: 13 Message-ID: <34CFAB9D.754C@yahoo.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> <01bd2ba0$dcb12300$5b4d1ed1@logmein.flash.net> Reply-To: heimdallassociates@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-215-140-3.sndg02.pacbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.02-C-PBM3 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!news-xfer.siscom.net!news.wgn.net!nntp.lsan03.pbi.net!news.pbi.net!news.pacbell.net!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:372 alt.out-of-body:585 Dearest Evelyn: Please do not be deterred by the ill-considered and rude retorts that have resulted from your postings. I, for one, value the contributions you make to the NG, and totally understand the spirit in which you make them. If any court-holders have a problem with your sincere and open-minded reports, it is a personality problem of theirs, not a shortcoming of yours. This is a forum, not a gladiatorial arena. Keep it coming, Gal! Greg ###### From: johnf@melbpc.org.au (John Fitzsimons) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:32:28 GMT Organization: Melbourne PC User Group Inc, Australia Lines: 140 Message-ID: <34cfa352.3074698@news.melbpc.org.au> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> <01bd2ba0$dcb12300$5b4d1ed1@logmein.flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: b1-9.melbpc.org.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xfer.kren.nm.kr!newsfeed.dacom.co.kr!innfeed.telstra.net!nsw.news.telstra.net!ozemail!news.mel.aone.net.au!newsfeed-in.aone.net.au!news.netspace.net.au!news2.melbpc.org.au!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:375 alt.out-of-body:586 On 28 Jan 1998 03:52:51 GMT, "Evelyn" wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote in article ><34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au>... < snip > >> One doesn't "kick out" a guide. A polite request is all that is >> needed. >They described the experience to me as having to put forth effort to remain >outside their body while the other person was inside. The visiting entity >would request entry Why would a "visiting entity" want to possess their body ? >and my friend would vacate the body, if they were not >out already. If something caused them to want back in, then they were >instantly back in, with little time to actually say, "Excuse me Mr. Guide >would you mind vacating at this time...." The thought is sufficient and can be instantaneous. :-) >Besides, they did not describe >the entities as guides, but as friends that they knew from before this >lifetime, Most guides are people one has known in prior lifetimes. >not necesarily more or less wise, but there to learn as well as >teach. Not every friendly entity one meets is necesarily a guide, there >only to help you. Yep. Some entities one meets are earthbound, or physical themselves. Some are negative and putting on a "friendly" approach as a means to get better entry to someone's physical body. >Some had lives in other dimensions. Monroe's example of >taking over the body of his "I/There" would be an example of something >similar. < snip > >> Why should a hostile entity follow your orders ? A "joke" right ? Most >> hostile entities would only react to your "orders" by laughing. I >> suppose if they are ROFL they might roll out of your physical >> body though. . < g > >I believe a hostile entity would follow my orders because they exist in a >dimension where thought is action and a demand is a thought. Yes, thoughts have power. That is correct, however they can be countered by thoughts of equal, or greater, power. That is how obsession and possession occur. The intruding entity overcomes the strength of the thoughts of the person who owns the physical body. > Also, my out >of body self is connected to my physical self, no matter where I go (ever >hear of the astral cord?) I think that bond to be stronger than the >desired of a hostile entity, especially when my desires are directly >opposed to it's. Just because one has an astral cord it doesn't follow one is in one's physical body. Someone who is OOB still have their cord but that doesn't guarantee possession of their body if a stronger willed entity is occupying it. > Beside, as I said, this is my OPINION. If you have a >differing opinion, I would like to hear YOUR evidence in support of it. Only a few decades in working with patients in obsessed/possessed situations. >Attempting to ridicule my opinion does not prove your opinion is the >correct alternative. Yep, you are right. However the notion that you can go around non-physically "giving orders" to people is very hard to accept as a "serious" statement. Had you explained why anyone should "follow your orders" then perhaps I would have looked at things differently. >Give me some evidence for your opinion and I will be >happy to consider it with an open mind. So far, all I am hearing from you >is rude comments and opinions. If you truly would like to have people >consider your opinions, you might want to show somematurity and logical >reasoning instead. Nobody here knows all the answers, so there is no >point acting like you do and that all other ideas are ridiculous. I do not consider other people's ideas as ridiculous. However if you imply that you are some sort of queen of the non-physical world able to "order people around" without giving any logical reasoning why you came to this notion then it is difficult to take such comments seriously. >> Your last comment is about as sensible as suggesting to a woman being >> raped that she should request her rapist to stop and never come near >> her again. Yea.......sure ! >You are trying to compare our physical dimension with a thought dimension, >which is a ridiculous comparison. If you have a differing opinion, I would like to hear YOUR evidence in support of it. There are many correlations between physical world situations and non-physical situations. If you truly would like to have people consider your opinions, you might want to show somematurity and logical reasoning instead of just saying something is "ridiculous". >Of course, I would not suggest that one >can think away an attacking Rottweiler or such attacker. Maybe you should >put a little more effort into your comparisons so that they actually make >some kind of sense. Perhaps a little less sarcasm, and more reading, would help you to understand points that are made in posts ? YOU were the one that was suggesting you can "think away" attackers. NOT me. My point was that one cannot "order" attackers away. In the physical world OR the non-physical world. A point you seem to want to ignore. One can however affect people when non-physical oneself by one's thoughts but whether one has any success depends on the strength of one's own thoughts compared to any countering thoughts. Someone who is physical can be overcome by someone who is stronger than themselves. Someone who is non-physical can be overcome by someone who is stronger than themselves. Is that clearer ? Regards, John. **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:632/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 29 Jan 1998 01:40:55 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6aomn7$30b@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> <01bd2ba0$dcb12300$5b4d1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34CFAB9D.754C@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh44-07.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Wed Jan 28 5:40:55 PM PST 1998 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!netnews.com!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:378 alt.out-of-body:588 In <34CFAB9D.754C@yahoo.com> Kopfjaeger writes: > >Dearest Evelyn: > >Please do not be deterred by the ill-considered and rude retorts that >have resulted from your postings. I remember reading Evelyn's post. Then I remember reading a response. I didn't think it to be rude. Then I remember reading Evelyn's response to the supposed rude post. I kept wanting to say, "No, Evelyn! He wasn't being rude. You just misread his post." But I never got around to it... His post was not mean. And he did apologize. I hope Evelyn saw that. Bart ###### From: "Evelyn" Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 29 Jan 1998 05:04:03 GMT Organization: Flashnet Communications, http://www.flash.net Lines: 23 Message-ID: <01bd2c74$0f599700$714c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <01bd2afc$4f4fd8c0$764c1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34d25ffd.4362099@news.melbpc.org.au> <01bd2ba0$dcb12300$5b4d1ed1@logmein.flash.net> <34CFAB9D.754C@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lash8-113.flash.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet News 4.70.1155 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.flash.net!excalibur.flash.net!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:381 alt.out-of-body:589 Thank you for your kind words. It is always refreshing to discover that one's existence is noted and appreciated. But don't worry, one combative responce is not enough to get rid of me! I have to learn not to let silly things bother me anyway. When I can read these types of personal attacks without a trace of anger, I will know that I am nearing my goal! -Evelyn Kopfjaeger wrote in article <34CFAB9D.754C@yahoo.com>... > Dearest Evelyn: > > Please do not be deterred by the ill-considered and rude retorts that > have resulted from your postings. I, for one, value the contributions > you make to the NG, and totally understand the spirit in which you make > them. > > If any court-holders have a problem with your sincere and open-minded > reports, it is a personality problem of theirs, not a shortcoming of > yours. This is a forum, not a gladiatorial arena. > > Keep it coming, Gal! > Greg > ###### From: Duane Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 20:33:43 -0800 Organization: Call America Internet Services +1 (800) 563-3271 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <34DBE426.879CDC4A@hotmail.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34cc5ca8.2564075@news.melbpc.org.au> <34CD10EF.66B2@nospam.ix.netcom.com> <0Ax47CAC4600Ewvl@LAWRI.DEMON.CO.UK> NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.1.204.82 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-west.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!199.74.141.7!zinger.callamer.com!not-for-mail Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:403 alt.out-of-body:624 >Does anyone know if your body is able to be possessed by another spirit when you are experiencing and out of body experience? Anything and everything is possible. As one who has OBEs very frequently, I have never been concerned with such ideas. But I do believe that we are such powerful beings that all is with the realm of possibility. I also believe that nothing occurs without consent of a greater part of each of us. I really don't see myself as my physical body so the idea of possession becomes irrelevant to me. I once heard William Buhlman say that if you are easily influenced by others in the life that you know, then you may find yourself similarly influenced while OBE. I agree. Fear is a great obstacle to most joy in the world that I see and in my own life. It's also something that can be overcome. We exist and don't seem to understand the very impossibility of that. I enjoyed the dialog about learning from each other by explaining our reasons for our beliefs. When we think that we know, we may find that we are slowing down the learning process. For those interested in learning about their own basic nature, the OBE is a wonderful tool. Life can be good, if we let it. Duane ###### From: bartma12@ix.netcom.com(Bart Scott) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Date: 7 Feb 1998 06:26:19 GMT Organization: Netcom Lines: 17 Message-ID: <6bguqb$nv1@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34DBE426.879CDC4A@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: clv-oh44-14.ix.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Feb 06 10:26:19 PM PST 1998 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.he.net!ix.netcom.com!news Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:405 alt.out-of-body:625 In <34DBE426.879CDC4A@hotmail.com> Duane writes: >When we think that we know, we may find that >we are slowing down the learning process. For those interested in >learning about their own basic nature, the OBE is a wonderful tool. >Life can be good, if we let it. > >Duane Dooo Daaahhh... :-) That about sums it all up. Bart ###### From: av037@chebucto.ns.ca (Seung-Won Yoon) Newsgroups: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: OBE Followup-To: alt.consciousness.near-death-exp,alt.out-of-body Date: 8 Feb 1998 03:24:38 GMT Organization: Chebucto Community Net Lines: 45 Message-ID: <6bj8hm$g4h$1@News.Dal.Ca> References: <34c6e1b3.0@zeus.cable-lynx.net> <34C92520.3AEB@ix.netcom.com> <34DBE426.879CDC4A@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chebucto.ns.ca X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.97.128.3!usenet.logical.net!news.dal.ca!chebucto.ns.ca!av037 Xref: ccw.ch alt.consciousness.near-death-exp:411 alt.out-of-body:628 Duane (DuaneYoung@hotmail.com) wrote: : >Does anyone know if your body is able to be possessed by another spirit : when you are experiencing and out of body experience? : Anything and everything is possible. As one who has OBEs very : frequently, I have never been concerned with such ideas. But I do : believe that we are such powerful beings that all is with the realm of : possibility. I also believe that nothing occurs without consent of a : greater part of each of us. I really don't see myself as my physical : body so the idea of possession becomes irrelevant to me. : I once heard William Buhlman say that if you are easily influenced by : others in the life that you know, then you may find yourself similarly : influenced while OBE. I agree. Fear is a great obstacle to most joy in : the world that I see and in my own life. It's also something that can : be overcome. We exist and don't seem to understand the very : impossibility of that. : I enjoyed the dialog about learning from each other by explaining our : reasons for our beliefs. When we think that we know, we may find that : we are slowing down the learning process. For those interested in : learning about their own basic nature, the OBE is a wonderful tool. : Life can be good, if we let it. : Duane -- great post duane! i think everyone here has something to learn from at least one other person who posts. a part of life is about learning/growing and sharing along the way to help others learn/grow. by reading others posts, it has helped my recall of dreams, and gave me a place to discuss the topics of oobe's and related things. my girlfriend is away for a few long months, and we usually talk about such things. we are trying to meet in the oobe setting (preferably)/dream state. hmm i don't like my choice of words; do you? about this whole astral/dream state/oobe... what are your beliefs about what exisits on the other side. i'll tell you mine if you tell me yours. :) good luck to all on the group. bill. (not seoung won yoon) :) .. yeah yeah.. i know what it says.. but things aren't always as they seem...