From: jcpeters@saber.towson.edu Subject: underwear Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:12:06 -0600 Reply-To: jcpeters@saber.towson.edu Message-ID: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Organization: Deja News Posting Service X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Dec 12 02:05:55 1997 GMT X-Authenticated-Sender: jcpeters@saber.towson.edu X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.01 [en] (Win95; I) X-Originating-IP-Addr: 204.62.32.172 () Lines: 11 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!grunt.dejanews.com!not-for-mail Can anyone tell if women of the Middle Ages wore any type of underpants? I would like to construct an outfit from the skin outwards, and I am also rather curious. So far, none of the books I've read have mentioned the covering of what can be called "the naughty bits" for women. Thanks Jill -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet ###### From: christian.folini@unifr.ch (Christian Folini) Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Subject: Re: underwear Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:12:53 GMT Organization: SWITCH, Swiss Academic & Research Network Lines: 30 Message-ID: <3490ff10.626989@news.unifr.ch> References: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: siufuxsun02.unifr.ch X-Trace: bromo.switch.ch 881917997 5779 (None) 134.21.1.145 X-Complaints-To: news@bromo.switch.ch X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/32.230 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!siufuxsun02.unifr.ch!histoirepc18.unifr.ch On Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:12:06 -0600, jcpeters@saber.towson.edu wrote: > Can anyone tell if women of the Middle Ages wore any type >of underpants? I would like to construct an outfit from >the skin outwards, and I am also rather curious. So far, >none of the books I've read have mentioned the covering of >what can be called "the naughty bits" for women. >Thanks > >Jill No, the did not. At least not as far as I know - certainly not on the continent. The underpants have been one of the prime symbols of man's power. The take one's underpants would mean to say he is no man anymore. If you speak German, you might want to read Jaritz Gerhard, Die Bruoch, in: Blaschnitz Gertrud (Ed.) et al., Symbole des Alltags. Alltag der Symbole, Graz 1992, p. 395 - 416 (Bruoch means underpants in ancient German.) Best regards Christian Folini 'Two plus two equals five for sufficiently large values of two.' mailto:christian.folini@unifr.ch http://www.grfn.org/~folini Institute for Medieval Studies at the University of Fribourg i.Ue. ###### From: "P. et V. CHELIUS" Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Subject: Re: underwear Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:48:17 +0100 Organization: Grolier Interactive Europe Lines: 29 Message-ID: <66r8fa$4q9$1@newsfeeds.grolier.fr> References: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-134-157.grenoble.club-internet.fr X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.algonet.se!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!194.51.3.225!rain.fr!grolier!not-for-mail jcpeters@saber.towson.edu a écrit dans le message <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com>... > Can anyone tell if women of the Middle Ages wore any type >of underpants? I would like to construct an outfit from >the skin outwards, and I am also rather curious. So far, >none of the books I've read have mentioned the covering of >what can be called "the naughty bits" for women. >Thanks > >Jill > >-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet There's a series of images about underwears : the battle for the pants (or something like that in frech it's called cispute pour la culotte) A woman in sitting, her dress on her knee and she's putting on his husband's pants. Funny isn'it? In the same time the woman strike his husband with her distaff! (poor man!) Theses pictures are very famous in medieval iconography. I've found some of them from the 13th to the 15th century. Vero ###### From: Freistatt@compuserve.com (Martina Walter) Subject: Re: underwear Date: Fri, 12 Dec 1997 21:00:08 GMT Message-ID: <3493a5d2.1892949@news.compuserve.com> References: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> <66r8fa$4q9$1@newsfeeds.grolier.fr> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Lines: 47 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.ecrc.net!arl-news-svc-8.compuserve.com!news-nih2naab.compuserve.com On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:48:17 +0100, "P. et V. CHELIUS" wrote: > >jcpeters@saber.towson.edu a écrit dans le message ><881892355.925827081@dejanews.com>... >> Can anyone tell if women of the Middle Ages wore any type >>of underpants? I would like to construct an outfit from >>the skin outwards, and I am also rather curious. So far, >>none of the books I've read have mentioned the covering of >>what can be called "the naughty bits" for women. >>Thanks >> >>Jill >> >>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====----------------------- >> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet > >There's a series of images about underwears : the battle for the pants (or >something like that in frech it's called cispute pour la culotte) >A woman in sitting, her dress on her knee and she's putting on his husband's >pants. Funny isn'it? >In the same time the woman strike his husband with her distaff! (poor man!) > >Theses pictures are very famous in medieval iconography. I've found some of >them from the 13th to the 15th century. > >Vero > Pardon me if I jump in . I am quite new to this group, but I did some research on the subject. If I recall correctly, for most of the Middle Ages women wore no underpants at all. Of course this depends on which period you call Middle Ages. In the late 14th and early 15th century, period sources report of British women wearing "breeches" (I hope I have translated this one correctly, the source is German and the word is "Bruch" , meaning some kind of leggins). The "battle for the pants" reminds me of the German proverb "Wer hat die Hosen an?" (translatied roughly "who is wearing the pants?"). The one with the pants on is the one in power. Since medieval pictures often referred to proverbs this could be the meaning of the pictures Vero describes. Please excuse my poor English, I am out of practise Martina (from Berlin, Germany) ###### From: iseultnel@aol.com (Iseultnel) Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Subject: Re: underwear Date: 13 Dec 1997 00:04:47 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: <19971213000401.TAA17711@ladder02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.datasync.com!news.datalytics.com!news-out.internetmci.com!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail > Can anyone tell if women of the Middle Ages wore any type >of underpants? I would like to construct an outfit from >the skin outwards, and I am also rather curious. So far, >none of the books I've read have mentioned the covering of >what can be called "the naughty bits" for women. >Thanks > > It depends, somewhat, on the place, as well as the portion of the middle ages you are concerned with. While it is true that most medieval women wore no kind of underpants, in certain times and places, they did. A case in point would be cortesans of Italy during the early to late Renaissance. (OK, technically, Not the "middle ages", but I'm making a point here!) Curiously, to modern sensibilities anyway, these women were the only ones in their culture to wear "undies". It was a Bloomer-type affair, and was usually displayed (discreetly, sort of) to advertise the vocation of the wearer. Teri Pope Teri Pope "Its what you learn after you know it all that counts." -Jimmy Williams ###### From: sasnakbear@aol.com (SasnakBear) Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Subject: Re: underwear Date: 13 Dec 1997 18:39:05 GMT Lines: 8 Message-ID: <19971213183901.NAA15086@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Jill, Don't know about middle ages underwear, but can tell you that as of the 18th century the only real "underwear" used was the chemise (in the case of women). They did not appear to have "panties" or other things which we consider part of the "underwear" today. Logic would say that they probably did not use it before then as well....as I don't think it's one of those things once introduced that fall out of favour like outerwear. ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.history.costuming Subject: Re: underwear Date: 13 Dec 1997 22:13:45 +0100 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 <881892355.925827081@dejanews.com>... > Can anyone tell if women of the Middle Ages wore any type >of underpants? This question has been posted many times (starting in 1994) in rec.org.sca Those posts and their answers were archived at: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/underwear-msg.html Read that, I am sure it will help you a lot. -- Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Any computer, that is running optimally, is outdated; including my Cx486