NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2005 22:46:02 -0600 X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 196.23.216.85 From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <42291176.1396106@news.east.earthlink.net> <71a9b2a820f898ff27336463f5c534a2@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38u7r7F5r4l5hU1@uni-berlin.de> <38ujk8F5p4hcoU1@uni-berlin.de> <2fbb8ec82e7a29443d482ae56a6b9697@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38vs99F5s2vo4U1@uni-berlin.de> <3912abF5u4kvjU1@individual.net> <637b85957550b0dee390be0d50a7e33c@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <393td8F5u8a4qU1@uni-berlin.de> <15aEdBRDXMLCFwPE@blueyonder.co.uk> <393vdaF5t7mo5U1@uni-berlin.de> <8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Permission [Re: Can Reiki Cause Harm?] Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 06:43:34 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Message-ID: Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.209.98.66 X-Trace: sv3-dptS81XUaB5HKgPgokFpf5Q+JRfbLWsSAKJjfCCLVaos/LdMCGcdeFhIFZhaK8h+Vks8VClMHqvsePq!DqZKK2xKxt1xuQJkcbJaXPcLFuaxH3QZsQ4D0hxpjdev0RDRARZdDi3dRGDv4FiKECE= X-Complaints-To: abuse@is.co.za X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@is.co.za X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.31 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.is.co.za!news.is.co.za.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:23222 "Judy" wrote in message news:8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk... | | No. We're not stirring air. As I said, I am in complete agreement with | telulah's point of view that "this whole subject is a matter of respect | and humility. Do I respect the rights, privacy, and wishes of another | concerning themselves, or do I assert my idea of what they need or what | I think may be necessary to alleviate my perception of their suffering. | No is no, it doesn't matter if it is said softly or with a shout. My | mother always said 'put yourself in their position and tell me how you | would feel'. When I do that I understand that I would feel disrespected, | violated, that being the case I have no option but to respect their | wishes. " | | I think that causing someone to feel disrespected & violated is harmful. | Is all :) Asking for permission is simply a matter of social convention and courtesy. It is not a holy cow that cannot be touched. All rights come with limitations and we need to recognise where we can an should step over the boundary and then have the courage to do so. There are a multitude of situations where the person cannot be asked, or is not in a state of mind to make a decision, or is so uninformed or misinformed that no valid decision can be made in terms of rationality. Probably 99.9% of humanity has never heard of reiki. Are you excluding all these people from the benefits they might get because not even knowing about reiki they clearly cannot ask for it or give permission? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "Gabriel" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Permission Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:37:48 +0100 Organization: T-Online Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <42291176.1396106@news.east.earthlink.net> <71a9b2a820f898ff27336463f5c534a2@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38u7r7F5r4l5hU1@uni-berlin.de> <38ujk8F5p4hcoU1@uni-berlin.de> <2fbb8ec82e7a29443d482ae56a6b9697@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38vs99F5s2vo4U1@uni-berlin.de> <3912abF5u4kvjU1@individual.net> <637b85957550b0dee390be0d50a7e33c@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <393td8F5u8a4qU1@uni-berlin.de> <15aEdBRDXMLCFwPE@blueyonder.co.uk> <393vdaF5t7mo5U1@uni-berlin.de> <8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: "Gabriel" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1110271741 01 26649 tuSArCdr1Vut6qD 050308 08:49:01 X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@t-online.de X-ID: Z2EUVUZXreuQEbfxCeWIC2+hRPKu7xW2yjo8-+UhH6ZahuD4O2Gac1 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!news.tu-darmstadt.de!tsicnews.teliasonera.com!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:23232 The question of Reiki Ethics is always very tricky. I wonder if we will ever all see eye to eye in this. Maybe all these discussions come from the fact, that we understand "Reiki" differently. Do we mean the *method* of directing Q'i flow with or without using hands? Do we mean an atittude in life for improving one's emotional and physical health? (Usui's Precepts, the gokai) Do we mean a set system of procedures taught in various ways by different schools? (the gakkai) Do we mean the definition of the basic force of being-ness, inherent in all that is? Which is the first definition we know of so far, some 3000 years old by some chinese guy, whose name I can't recall now. I think it was Huei Q'i (Wei Ch'i) but I wouldn't vouch for it. (Does anyone remember? Goddess, in which one of my folders is that article??? Anyway that's the first evidence we have in written form of this word.) Whatever else? ###### From: "Gabriel" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Permission [Re: Can Reiki Cause Harm?] Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:26:16 +0100 Organization: T-Online Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <42291176.1396106@news.east.earthlink.net> <71a9b2a820f898ff27336463f5c534a2@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38u7r7F5r4l5hU1@uni-berlin.de> <38ujk8F5p4hcoU1@uni-berlin.de> <2fbb8ec82e7a29443d482ae56a6b9697@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38vs99F5s2vo4U1@uni-berlin.de> <3912abF5u4kvjU1@individual.net> <637b85957550b0dee390be0d50a7e33c@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <393td8F5u8a4qU1@uni-berlin.de> <15aEdBRDXMLCFwPE@blueyonder.co.uk> <393vdaF5t7mo5U1@uni-berlin.de> <8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: "Gabriel" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1110271741 01 26649 TuSArCdrLVL7v77 050308 08:49:01 X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@t-online.de X-ID: buN8SeZDwejTKNY8Ovfo2wtdW+JYRNaGgm4sKZ4T7K9FZdQTNGXB0O X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!80.239.136.22.MISMATCH!tsicnews.teliasonera.com!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:23231 Peter Reber wrote: < Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Permission [Re: Can Reiki Cause Harm?] Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 09:27:03 +0100 Organization: T-Online Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <42291176.1396106@news.east.earthlink.net> <71a9b2a820f898ff27336463f5c534a2@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38u7r7F5r4l5hU1@uni-berlin.de> <38ujk8F5p4hcoU1@uni-berlin.de> <2fbb8ec82e7a29443d482ae56a6b9697@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38vs99F5s2vo4U1@uni-berlin.de> <3912abF5u4kvjU1@individual.net> <637b85957550b0dee390be0d50a7e33c@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <393td8F5u8a4qU1@uni-berlin.de> <15aEdBRDXMLCFwPE@blueyonder.co.uk> <393vdaF5t7mo5U1@uni-berlin.de> <8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: "Gabriel" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1110271741 01 26649 tuSArCdr6V2XSnNC 050308 08:49:01 X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@t-online.de X-ID: E6ROFoZQwecSDbSXsvKp5Lxyof4muz5m6SScsrRvGF2E1G9Cnh-M6j X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!80.239.136.22.MISMATCH!tsicnews.teliasonera.com!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:23233 Reiki is a form of working on a situation with love. Love must be gentle. All forms of love(making) involve a gentle question. We don't go around kissing people randomly either, even if it *would* be good for them. Actively turning on the "Reiki Beams" and aiming them at others like the lightsabre in Star Wars, this is something deliberate and intimate as well, innit? As Reiki Practitioners we should approach our clients with utmost respect and deference. They call the shots. We only offer. But some people will ask, others won't. That's just that, I guess. In the "olden" days we have related many experiences or encounters with people who sent us Reiki where we clearly said "no! I don't want that." Or they didn't ask but thought they knew better than we did and sent masses of energy to whatever purpose *they* had decided was the "highest good". We found out later, brought two and two together and realised why had been much worse all of a sudden. The results of such behaviour can simply be very unpleasant. ###### Message-ID: From: Judy Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Permission [Re: Can Reiki Cause Harm?] References: <42291176.1396106@news.east.earthlink.net> <71a9b2a820f898ff27336463f5c534a2@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38u7r7F5r4l5hU1@uni-berlin.de> <38ujk8F5p4hcoU1@uni-berlin.de> <2fbb8ec82e7a29443d482ae56a6b9697@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38vs99F5s2vo4U1@uni-berlin.de> <3912abF5u4kvjU1@individual.net> <637b85957550b0dee390be0d50a7e33c@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <393td8F5u8a4qU1@uni-berlin.de> <15aEdBRDXMLCFwPE@blueyonder.co.uk> <393vdaF5t7mo5U1@uni-berlin.de> <8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk> Lines: 26 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U () Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 08:40:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.35.153.131 X-Trace: fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1110271252 82.35.153.131 (Tue, 08 Mar 2005 08:40:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 08:40:52 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:23230 In message , pr writes > >Asking for permission is simply a matter of social convention and courtesy. >It is not a holy cow that cannot be touched. All rights come with >limitations and we need to recognise where we can an should step >over the boundary and then have the courage to do so. >There are a multitude of situations where the person cannot be asked, >or is not in a state of mind to make a decision, or is so uninformed >or misinformed that no valid decision can be made in terms of >rationality. >Probably 99.9% of humanity has never heard of reiki. Are you excluding >all these people from the benefits they might get because not even >knowing about reiki they clearly cannot ask for it or give permission? > Never say "never", Peter :) Once we "over"stand a principle ... we can see where it applies ... and where it doesn't and we can make a sensibly informed decision as to how we are to act (or not-act). If we never take the trouble to do the work and learn to feel in our hearts honestly the difference between when we are acting with selfless courage and when we are acting with personal gratification in mind, then we'll never get anywhere, will we ? -- Judy ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Permission [Re: Can Reiki Cause Harm?] Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 11:50:45 +0100 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <395eb8F5v8l5bU1@uni-berlin.de> References: <42291176.1396106@news.east.earthlink.net> <71a9b2a820f898ff27336463f5c534a2@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38u7r7F5r4l5hU1@uni-berlin.de> <38ujk8F5p4hcoU1@uni-berlin.de> <2fbb8ec82e7a29443d482ae56a6b9697@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <38vs99F5s2vo4U1@uni-berlin.de> <3912abF5u4kvjU1@individual.net> <637b85957550b0dee390be0d50a7e33c@localhost.talkaboutrecovery.com> <393td8F5u8a4qU1@uni-berlin.de> <15aEdBRDXMLCFwPE@blueyonder.co.uk> <393vdaF5t7mo5U1@uni-berlin.de> <8ZOGVUVRbNLCFwcs@blueyonder.co.uk> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de t2QJLVDcYt1ZTxDMiKi6JAKVE9PA8GLHtqahvd7bx1Yx7zQYJOqmmt User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:23238 Hi Gabriel Gabriel wrote: Snip We > found out later, brought two and two together and realised why had > been much worse all of a sudden. The results of such behaviour can > simply be very unpleasant. you talked several times in few mais yesterday abouto something you had to pay yourself or regret or bad experience linked with Reiki as as in the lines above could you explain more in concrete or with good examples what you mean by that ? thanks Theo Theo778@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : Theo@ch.inter.net «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»