From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:55:04 +0200 Lines: 143 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-72.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 31 Jul 2004 08:24:53 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-72.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-72.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18276 "Woody James" wrote In responding to "none": : You said that you made it part of your healing process to : warn people of Reiki. And with every warning and recounting of the experience the grooves of that experience grow deeper and makes it more difficult to to get out of it. He himself wrote "The more I talked about it, the more the voices talked to me." How much can this contribute to the healing, if anything at all? : You have stumbled into a group of people that already : have experience, MUCH more experience with Reiki than you do. Yes, but nobody has his experience! Is that not all that counts? As "none" points out in his OP many responses have been along the level of "reiki can only do good and so your experience could not possible exist or be true". : You cannot : convince anyone here that because of your experiences, "expertise", or : opinions, that Reiki is a bad thing. But could it be applied in a "bad" way? Just like the ... :Next, you will be trying to convince : the Pope that God is evil. By the way, the Pope won't be convinced that God : is bad, either. ... crusades and inquisition? : You have stated your "opinion" and shared your "warning" numerous times. : You have only recieved offereings of help, and possibly a few humerous : comments sparked by responses others have given. If his reports of what happens are true then the humour is probably not funny at all to him and only serves to fuel hi anger and disappointment directed at reiki. There must be some concern about his reluctance to engage in some more in-depth exploration of his difficulties, but considering the posts of disbelief which seem to surface very quickly this may be understandable. : I do : suggest that you either take someone up on the offering of help, seek your : own help, or just learn to live with the voices...the rest of us have! I hear NO voices! Did my attunement not work, I wonder? : I do believe that it is time that you cease any future "complaints" of Reiki : on this newsground. It is getting old, and you ARE becoming a Troll. Tao-te-ching, chapter 71: Only by being sick of our sickness Are we not sick. alternative translation: You can only be healed of the sickness by becoming sick of the sickness. Question: Are we prepared to let other get to that point? :I am : sure that you can find others not tainted by the power of Reiki to warn. : Tell them your story. Warn them of the dangers that can happen when things : go bad. There is no point in that. His gripe is with the reiki people. As he sees it, rightly or wrongly, his troubles started with the treatments and attunements, he states that his teacher could not help, nor the reiki group he contacted. In his mind reiki started this whole thing and it is up to reiki people to fix it. He essentially says that we are dealing with something we do not have a clue about, and so when things go wrong, or are perceived to have gone wrong, we don't know what to do .... : But, it would be appreciated if you would halt any complaints. ... and enter a state of denial. Go away, leave us in peace! : Respect the ideas of others. Without us respecting his idea? Whatever our opinion is about them, that is what is there for him, and that is where we need to start. : Understand that YOU are becoming that voice inside your : head. You are becoming the voice in our heads. It isn't harming us, but it : is annoying. Oh yes, just imagine how annoying they must be for *him*! : I enjoy listening and relating to how you fell. I, as well as many others, : would like to help. You appear to have no want to be helped. You have : become just one voice in a mob of screaming voices inside your head. Help : yourself silence them. Maybe, but how? We seem to have difficulty to determine what reiki actually is. It might be easier to talk about something which is a bit more graspable. That is why I change the subject heading. And while you answer the question bear this in mind: "We are often asked to give when we are least capable of giving it." -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" : "LH" wrote in message : news:LR8Oc.2026$9Y6.1341@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... : > Assuming you're not a Troll: : > : > Tell the voices to go away. If they are coming from outside of your mind : > they must leave via the law of free will. If they don't go away, than : they : > are coming from your OWN mind... If they are still there after you tell : > them to go away, ask them what it is they are trying to communicate to : you. : > Carry on a conversation with them and see what they want or need. A GOOD : > Hypnotherapist (they need to be trained in "Parts" therapy) would be able : to : > help you find out what they are trying to get across to you. Good luck, : > Lonnie : > : > : : ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:55:04 +0200 Lines: 143 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-213.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410b4d70.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 31 Jul 2004 09:42:40 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-213.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-213.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18278 "Woody James" wrote In responding to "none": : You said that you made it part of your healing process to : warn people of Reiki. And with every warning and recounting of the experience the grooves of that experience grow deeper and makes it more difficult to to get out of it. He himself wrote "The more I talked about it, the more the voices talked to me." How much can this contribute to the healing, if anything at all? : You have stumbled into a group of people that already : have experience, MUCH more experience with Reiki than you do. Yes, but nobody has his experience! Is that not all that counts? As "none" points out in his OP many responses have been along the level of "reiki can only do good and so your experience could not possible exist or be true". : You cannot : convince anyone here that because of your experiences, "expertise", or : opinions, that Reiki is a bad thing. But could it be applied in a "bad" way? Just like the ... :Next, you will be trying to convince : the Pope that God is evil. By the way, the Pope won't be convinced that God : is bad, either. ... crusades and inquisition? : You have stated your "opinion" and shared your "warning" numerous times. : You have only recieved offereings of help, and possibly a few humerous : comments sparked by responses others have given. If his reports of what happens are true then the humour is probably not funny at all to him and only serves to fuel hi anger and disappointment directed at reiki. There must be some concern about his reluctance to engage in some more in-depth exploration of his difficulties, but considering the posts of disbelief which seem to surface very quickly this may be understandable. : I do : suggest that you either take someone up on the offering of help, seek your : own help, or just learn to live with the voices...the rest of us have! I hear NO voices! Did my attunement not work, I wonder? : I do believe that it is time that you cease any future "complaints" of Reiki : on this newsground. It is getting old, and you ARE becoming a Troll. Tao-te-ching, chapter 71: Only by being sick of our sickness Are we not sick. alternative translation: You can only be healed of the sickness by becoming sick of the sickness. Question: Are we prepared to let other get to that point? :I am : sure that you can find others not tainted by the power of Reiki to warn. : Tell them your story. Warn them of the dangers that can happen when things : go bad. There is no point in that. His gripe is with the reiki people. As he sees it, rightly or wrongly, his troubles started with the treatments and attunements, he states that his teacher could not help, nor the reiki group he contacted. In his mind reiki started this whole thing and it is up to reiki people to fix it. He essentially says that we are dealing with something we do not have a clue about, and so when things go wrong, or are perceived to have gone wrong, we don't know what to do .... : But, it would be appreciated if you would halt any complaints. ... and enter a state of denial. Go away, leave us in peace! : Respect the ideas of others. Without us respecting his idea? Whatever our opinion is about them, that is what is there for him, and that is where we need to start. : Understand that YOU are becoming that voice inside your : head. You are becoming the voice in our heads. It isn't harming us, but it : is annoying. Oh yes, just imagine how annoying they must be for *him*! : I enjoy listening and relating to how you fell. I, as well as many others, : would like to help. You appear to have no want to be helped. You have : become just one voice in a mob of screaming voices inside your head. Help : yourself silence them. Maybe, but how? We seem to have difficulty to determine what reiki actually is. It might be easier to talk about something which is a bit more graspable. That is why I change the subject heading. And while you answer the question bear this in mind: "We are often asked to give when we are least capable of giving it." -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" : "LH" wrote in message : news:LR8Oc.2026$9Y6.1341@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net... : > Assuming you're not a Troll: : > : > Tell the voices to go away. If they are coming from outside of your mind : > they must leave via the law of free will. If they don't go away, than : they : > are coming from your OWN mind... If they are still there after you tell : > them to go away, ask them what it is they are trying to communicate to : you. : > Carry on a conversation with them and see what they want or need. A GOOD : > Hypnotherapist (they need to be trained in "Parts" therapy) would be able : to : > help you find out what they are trying to get across to you. Good luck, : > Lonnie : > : > : : ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s01 1091292487 67.169.57.204 (Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:48:07 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:48:07 GMT Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 16:48:07 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!news.glorb.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s01.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18290 "pr" did speak forth on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 07:55:04 +0200: > >There is no point in that. His gripe is with the reiki people. >As he sees it, rightly or wrongly, his troubles started >with the treatments and attunements, he states that his >teacher could not help, nor the reiki group he contacted. >In his mind reiki started this whole thing and it is up to >reiki people to fix it. >He essentially says that we are dealing with something >we do not have a clue about, and so when things go wrong, >or are perceived to have gone wrong, we don't know what >to do .... My take on this is that he went into a situation where he needed healing, quite possibly a schizo personality issue from what he said, and a situation in which he should also be seeking professional psychiatric care. Reiki can be of use here with emotional calming and protection, but the core issues are far more complex, calling for a multiphasic treatment of traditional and nontraditional techniques. What he attributes to the results of Reiki, in my opinion, are actually the results of the original disorder which is causing severe problems in his life -- not Reiki related at all. My assertion is a nit on another part of your post, and I don't think I quoted it (apologies), but Reiki can only do good because by definition it is a "light" energy. It does not employ shadow energy at all. Dark wave types can't even function around it. They simply do not work. --- To send email,remove the shadow. http://www.MEGA.bz ###### Message-ID: <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:55:43 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091300072 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:54:32 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:54:32 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!peer01.cox.net!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18296 Hi Seven, Seven wrote: > :) > > What he attributes to the results of Reiki, in my opinion, are > actually the results of the original disorder which is causing severe > problems in his life -- not Reiki related at all. You are probably correct, But being treated & attuned to what he was told was Reiki caused those problems to grow worse for him. > My assertion is a nit on another part of your post, and I don't think > I quoted it (apologies), but Reiki can only do good because by > definition it is a "light" energy. It does not employ shadow energy > at all. Dark wave types can't even function around it. They simply > do not work. That would be true if there was a world/universal law that said that *---* is Reiki & anything more or less than *---* can't be called Reiki. All you need to do is look at some of the 2,860,000 Reiki sites that google has listed & what some of those sites say Reiki, is to see that ghost, spirits, aliens, ascended master & many other possibly dark entities are being called on under the cover of Reiki. By definition 'Reiki the practice' is a method of accessing UE (Universal Energy) to aid in healing, *But* that same UE can be used for other than altruistic purposes, so to say that "Reiki can only do good" isn't exactly correct unless it is pointed out that the original Usui Reiki is what is being talked about. GramPaHugs, Alex, > --- > To send email,remove the shadow. > http://www.MEGA.bz -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:00 +0100 (BST) Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Tm7UG/NVuT/9a9oM1CwJvwOTKcC725xWDrft/nS0F2YCmjPAw= X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18298 (Alex Barna) wrote: > By definition 'Reiki the practice' is a method of accessing UE > (Universal Energy) to aid in healing, *But* that same UE can be > used for other than altruistic purposes, so to say that "Reiki > can only do good" isn't exactly correct unless it is pointed > out that the original Usui Reiki is what is being talked about. In a nutshell ... but UE doesn't give a damn about the corporeal likes of you and I, which is why it can be used for ill, but as you say, within the Usui Reiki paradigm, can only do good .. I think I just said what you just said .. :) Stuart ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:08:14 GMT Lines: 29 Message-ID: <410bfae8.1557081@news.Individual.NET> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de OUmmYxeLCaQKB3DVFrG09A9eXuVE0t1gmTCp4+UftkjTpfa9Bq X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18297 On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:55:43 -0500, Alex Barna wrote: >Hi Seven, > >Seven wrote: >> > :) >> >> What he attributes to the results of Reiki, in my opinion, are >> actually the results of the original disorder which is causing severe >> problems in his life -- not Reiki related at all. > >You are probably correct, But being treated & attuned to what he was told was >Reiki caused those problems to grow worse for him. Sorry to nitpick, but to be totally, technically accurate, being treated and attuned to what he was told was Reiki is what he claims to have caused, *according to his testimony* (we have no other data at this time except what he has chosen to supply us in a few posts), those problems to grow worse for him. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but don't want to jump to any false conclusions based on rash, unfounded assumptions. namaste, Garry ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 22:35:09 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 202 Message-ID: <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1384P006.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091305515 newsreader02.highway.telekom.at 31850 80.121.44.230 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed01.chello.at!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader02.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18299 Dear Alex (and everybody who is interested), you are very correct in what you suggest about different energies and the possibility of getting attuned to them, depending on the quality of the teacher and the resonance of the student to different types of energies. A student who is not spiritual enough and energetically prepared to channel the highest level energies would probably "burn out" his energy system and physical body if it were possible to attune him to the highest energies. I would also like to add that energy (also the Usui energy) in itself is neutral and gets it's direction from the intent of the healer/practitioner (or whatever). It is a very complex topic and interestingly, I have covered that in one of my postings as answer to a question about environmental influences affecting Reiki healing treaments. I would like to share this posting with you and everyone who is interested. If you (the readers) do not agree with what I share about my own experienices, then please disregard it. There is no point in starting an argument that only hardens controversial points of view and further down the road may create hard feelings in you up to the point of hostility. With love, Elisabeth http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html --------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Rosemary and Everybody, especially in the West, it is the simplified and standard assumption that the (Usui-, Tera Mai- and other) Reiki energies have an intelligence on their own, and work only for the highest good of everybody involved, etc. While I agree that Reiki energies are an expression or an aspect of the Universal Life force (or God' energies as everything in the Universe is created by them including us) I would not go so far as to say that the Reiki practitioner is not having influence on the quality of the energies transmitted. The Universal Life force or what we call the Reiki energy is a neutral energy that is directed by our intent to help and heal. Even if it means to just ask for the highest good of the person involved or the situation. If the intent is not too clear and we ask for God's or angelic assistance, or the help of the Higher Self of the person, then we activate this supporting/helpful energies or give permission to this entities/angels to help (as you know, they usually need an invitation to interfere, otherwise it would be against the free will of the persons involved). Every body has a genetic programming that is meant to keep the body functional and healthy. The chromosomes (DNA) also have a self-repair function. If a person is energy-depleted or has the wrong kind of energy (low frequent, "dark" energy of whatever personal or outside origin) stored, then that causes dis-ease by either depletion of the higher frequent energies or blocks the natural flow of this higher frequent energies. Now, if we remove this blockages either by energy surgery (for example the MPRUE techniques) or we add so much Reiki energy that is charged with the intent to repair and heal that the "negative" energies are being "pushed out" and the pathways are getting cleared that way, or the energy depletion is overcome by adding the necessary quantity of "positive" energies to achiece a natural and optimum energy flow in the meridians, then the person has the necessary quality and quantity of higher frequent energies in his aura, etheric layer and body to heal. Also, as you know, the energetic quality of the "channel" also influences the quality and quantity of the Reiki energies that flow through her/him. It can vary from total and strong flow (when the "channel" is highly spiritual and her/his personal energies are compatible so that they can stand the highest frequent channeled energies) to no flow at all (if the "channel" is blocked for some reason, or even closed). One could write a book about this very complex and multi-faceted topic. We might want to see the energetic quality of the practitioner as one of the environmental factors that influence the transmission of the Reiki energies. Also, the energetic condition and openness of the recipient (client, patient) influences how much energies s/he draws through the channel of the helping practitioner. If the client is blocked or not really welcoming the energetic help then the usual Usui method by just letting the energies flow through the channel is not enough. Especially, if the Higher Self of the client does not agree. I know such cases even in my own family. Other energetic influences like low frequent "negative" energies in the room influence the aura of the recipient (and the practitioner) and might cause a slower or impaired absorption of the Reiki energies in the body and aura of the recipient. That is why a natural high vibrant environment is better for healing. I encourage everybody to either do healings in nature or - if that is not possible - to prepare the room in which you practise in a way that is excluding low frequent energies as much as possible. Use MPRUE Release and Balance, the Usui symbols, give Reiki to the room first and use MPRUE Empower to make this positive energies stronger. Put salt (seasalt) into the corners of your treatment room, and ask for angelic assistance. Practise personal energy hygiene, clean your chakras regularly, and ask for protection etc especially during treatments. There is no automatic protection from stirred-up negative energies coming from your client, while or after you channel Reiki energies. Being "immune" to opportunistic low frequent energy attachments just because you channel higher frequent energies, is another quite irresponsible "business-promoter" fairy tale in the West. And: the brighter the light, the more gnats get attracted, unfortunately. I see that everyday and putting the head into the sand pretending that only love and light exists in this world does not help in the long run. We are here in this world to learn and eventually find back to the Divine, that is the main purpose of our incarnation. If everything would be positive then we would be unable to move forward, we would be stagnant and would have no reason or stimulation to experiment and learn. So, whatever happens and we experience, both the outcome and the path to it, is eventually for our highest good and we should be grateful to the Divine for everything. We will have enough opportunity to rest and be in a state of happiness in the astral or higher worlds after we leave this body, and before we incarnate again to continue our learning path. Ok, that was another channeling from Spirit paired or filtered by my own experiences as matrix. Hope it made sense to you and I am looking forward to talking with you about everything. With love and MPRUE blessings, Elisabeth PS: Yes, I agree that Reiki energies are able to penetrate substances that X-rays can't. Reiki energies that we use for healings are higher frequent than low-frequent material/physical matter and the corresponding lower-frequent "physical" energies. Also, X-Rays are - compared to Reiki energies - very low frequent imbalanced "Yin" energies (they destroy matter and other energy structures, and can even facilitate the development of cancer cells in the long run.). http://www.magnussa.com/cancer.html ------------------------------------ Rev. Elisabeth Frauendorfer, Founder and GGM MPRUE http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html Magnussa Phoenix Reiki Universal Energies system http://www.magnussa.com/institute.html Magnussa Phoenix Institute "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com... > Hi Seven, > > Seven wrote: > > > :) > > > > What he attributes to the results of Reiki, in my opinion, are > > actually the results of the original disorder which is causing severe > > problems in his life -- not Reiki related at all. > > You are probably correct, But being treated & attuned to what he was told was > Reiki caused those problems to grow worse for him. > > > My assertion is a nit on another part of your post, and I don't think > > I quoted it (apologies), but Reiki can only do good because by > > definition it is a "light" energy. It does not employ shadow energy > > at all. Dark wave types can't even function around it. They simply > > do not work. > > That would be true if there was a world/universal law that said that *---* is > Reiki & anything more or less than *---* can't be called Reiki. > > All you need to do is look at some of the 2,860,000 Reiki sites that google has > listed & what some of those sites say Reiki, is to see that ghost, spirits, > aliens, ascended master & many other possibly dark entities are being called on > under the cover of Reiki. > > By definition 'Reiki the practice' is a method of accessing UE (Universal > Energy) to aid in healing, *But* that same UE can be used for other than > altruistic purposes, so to say that "Reiki can only do good" isn't exactly > correct unless it is pointed out that the original Usui Reiki is what is being > talked about. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > --- > > To send email,remove the shadow. > > http://www.MEGA.bz > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > **************************************************** --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s52 1091310479 67.169.57.204 (Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:47:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:47:59 GMT Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:47:59 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!209.11.36.156.MISMATCH!nntp-server.pubsub.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s52.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18302 Alex Barna did speak forth on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 13:55:43 -0500: >You are probably correct, But being treated & attuned to what he was told was >Reiki caused those problems to grow worse for him. > >> My assertion is a nit on another part of your post, and I don't think >> I quoted it (apologies), but Reiki can only do good because by >> definition it is a "light" energy. It does not employ shadow energy >> at all. Dark wave types can't even function around it. They simply >> do not work. > >That would be true if there was a world/universal law that said that *---* is >Reiki & anything more or less than *---* can't be called Reiki. Reiki isn't a new term. Before Usui, the word existed to mean healing of other more varied sorts, but always related to healing. > >All you need to do is look at some of the 2,860,000 Reiki sites that google has >listed & what some of those sites say Reiki, is to see that ghost, spirits, >aliens, ascended master & many other possibly dark entities are being called on >under the cover of Reiki. Ya that's true. There are a zillion "Reiki" sites that really aren't anything to do with Reiki, IMHO. I guess by internet logic, I could buy a Ford Fiesta, put a BMW sticker on it, and then sell it for a lot more than it is worth... calling it something other than it is doesn't make it so.... but then I suspect I am "preaching to the choir" on this point. > >By definition 'Reiki the practice' is a method of accessing UE (Universal >Energy) to aid in healing, *But* that same UE can be used for other than >altruistic purposes, so to say that "Reiki can only do good" isn't exactly >correct unless it is pointed out that the original Usui Reiki is what is being >talked about. Universal (life-force) energy - it is by definition only a conduit of the grid, yes? What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? --- To send email,remove the shadow. http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410bfae8.1557081@news.Individual.NET> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s52 1091310688 67.169.57.204 (Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:51:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:51:28 GMT Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 21:51:28 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!209.11.36.156.MISMATCH!nntp-server.pubsub.com!news.glorb.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s52.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18303 gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) did speak forth on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 20:08:14 GMT: >Sorry to nitpick, but to be totally, technically accurate, being >treated and attuned to what he was told was Reiki is what he claims to >have caused, *according to his testimony* (we have no other data at >this time except what he has chosen to supply us in a few posts), >those problems to grow worse for him. I no longer have the orignal post to refer back, but I recall him saying that he had problems going into it. That he was told attunement would be of benefit, and this was after initial treatments were of little benefit. Revisionist or not, it seems to me that expectations and intent were not applied here. There was no time or concerted effort with the Spirit Within to allow a healing to take place. To this end, "Reiki" per se, was misrepresented. Happens all the time I am sure. --- To send email,remove the shadow. http://www.MEGA.bz ###### Message-ID: <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 56 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:23:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091319825 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:23:45 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2004 19:23:45 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!peer01.cox.net!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18306 Seven wrote: > > Alex Barna did speak forth on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 > 13:55:43 -0500: :) > > Ya that's true. There are a zillion "Reiki" sites that really aren't > anything to do with Reiki, IMHO. I guess by internet logic, I could > buy a Ford Fiesta, put a BMW sticker on it, and then sell it for a lot > more than it is worth... calling it something other than it is doesn't > make it so.... but then I suspect I am "preaching to the choir" on > this point. Actually your preaching to the preacher. ^_^ > >By definition 'Reiki the practice' is a method of accessing UE > >(Universal Energy) to aid in healing, *But* that same UE can be used > >for other than altruistic purposes, so to say that "Reiki can only do > >good" isn't exactly correct unless it is pointed out that the original > >Usui Reiki is what is being talked about. > > Universal (life-force) energy - it is by definition only a conduit of > the grid, yes? That depends on what you mean by " the grid,". The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to visually perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden Mist that is everywhere in & around everything living & not living. It varies only in color & brightness & never moves though there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. > What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed > from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* the light & the darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. GramPaHugs, Alex, > --- > To send email,remove the shadow. > http://www.MEGA.bz -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 07:19:01 +0200 Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-58.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 1 Aug 2004 07:30:41 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-58.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-58.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18310 "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote in message news:410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at... : I would also like to add that energy (also the Usui energy) in itself is : neutral and gets it's direction from the intent of the healer/practitioner : (or whatever). It is a very complex topic and interestingly, I have covered : that in one of my postings as answer to a question about environmental : influences affecting Reiki healing treaments. I would like to share this : posting with you and everyone who is interested. If you (the readers) do : not agree with what I share about my own experienices, then please disregard : it. A good post that recognises that there are many factors that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. How different it reads to other posts which essentially say -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not matter) -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) To me, who, where, what, when and how all matter. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 07:22:31 +0200 Lines: 21 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-58.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410c8002.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 1 Aug 2004 07:30:42 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-58.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-58.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18311 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com... : : Seven wrote: : > : > What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed : > from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? : : That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* the light & the : darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. With special emphasis on the &. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s53 1091340949 67.169.57.204 (Sun, 01 Aug 2004 06:15:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 06:15:49 GMT Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 06:15:49 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s53.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18312 Alex Barna did speak forth on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 00:23:45 GMT: >The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to visually >perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden Mist that is everywhere >in & around everything living & not living. It varies only in color & brightness >& never moves though there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. > >> What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed >> from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? > >That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* the light & the >darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. I guess we see it differently. This is not a bad thing. --- To send email,remove the shadow. http://www.MEGA.bz ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 78 Message-ID: <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1388P014.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091358863 newsreader02.highway.telekom.at 13242 80.121.45.110 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!nntpfeed.zonnet.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader02.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18317 Hi Peter, thanks for your input. :-))) > A good post that recognises that there are many factors > that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. > How different it reads to other posts which essentially say > -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not matter) > -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) > -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) > > To me, who, where, what, when and how all matter. IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning fast $$$. Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That is - in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I postpone the attunement and training. Elisabeth "pr" wrote in message news:410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote in message > news:410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at... > > : I would also like to add that energy (also the Usui energy) in itself is > : neutral and gets it's direction from the intent of the healer/practitioner > : (or whatever). It is a very complex topic and interestingly, I have > covered > : that in one of my postings as answer to a question about environmental > : influences affecting Reiki healing treaments. I would like to share this > : posting with you and everyone who is interested. If you (the readers) do > : not agree with what I share about my own experienices, then please > disregard > : it. > > A good post that recognises that there are many factors > that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. > How different it reads to other posts which essentially say > -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not matter) > -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) > -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) > > To me, who, where, what, when and how all matter. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 13:44:10 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1091360636 13126 212.59.133.44 (1 Aug 2004 11:43:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!eusc.inter.net!news.eusc.inter.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18321 Hi Alex Alex Barna wrote: > The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to visually > perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden Mist that is everywhere > in & around everything living & not living. not living ...what do you mean .. stones , a pottery. a handcraft or a dead corpse ? >> It varies only in color & brightness > & never moves though there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. **things**? could you say more about? intensities you mean veins of color intensity ? thanks Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ###### Message-ID: <410D0083.E9856673@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 55 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:33:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091370780 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:33:00 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:33:00 CDT Organization: RoadRunner Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18327 Hi Theo, Theo wrote: > > Hi Alex > > Alex Barna wrote: > > > The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to > > visually perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden Mist > > that is everywhere in & around everything living & not living. > > not living ...what do you mean .. stones , a pottery. a handcraft Yes. > or a dead corpse ? Actually a dead corpse is very much alive with bacterial life. > > It varies only in color & brightness > > & never moves though there are 'things' & intensities that move > > through it. > > **things**? could you say more about? Balls of light like fire flies, some are formerly alive entities & some have never been alive & some are life forms that exist & live in the UE. > intensities you mean veins of color intensity ? Yes, sort of like the sun light on the surface of a pond. > thanks You are welcome. Hope I answered your questions. > Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 > > «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:50:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091371822 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:50:22 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 09:50:22 CDT Organization: RoadRunner Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!209.11.36.156.MISMATCH!nntp-server.pubsub.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!63.223.4.70!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18330 Seven wrote: > > Alex Barna did speak forth on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 > 00:23:45 GMT: > > >The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to > >visually perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden > >Mist that is everywhere in & around everything living & not > >living. It varies only in color & brightness & never moves though > >there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. > > > >> What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed > >> from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? > > > >That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* > >the light & the darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. > > I guess we see it differently. That is called individual perception. The spice of discussion. ^_^ > This is not a bad thing. It is a good thing. Life would be so boring if everyone saw things the same way & thought the same way & liked the same things. GramPaHugs, Alex, > --- > To send email,remove the shadow. > http://www.MEGA.bz -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:47:57 GMT Lines: 35 Message-ID: <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 74srE4Pu2msarxmT/JVTvQ+djIWfoL5r0W7QO9i8574wtGpvpp X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18347 On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: >IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners >who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" >and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any >responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about >metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open >minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning >fast $$$. Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite of ourselves. >Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's >best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising >Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth >of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often >observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point >of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That is - >in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such >tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I >postpone the attunement and training. Good thing you're in charge to do all that wonderful policing of the Lightworker community. I'm reminded of another well-policed organization that you might have learned about in school, if not at your grandparents' knees. Ah, how soon hard-won lessons are forgotten! namaste, Garry ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: <4berg09fvdmme28k5d93vubgak4q7o55r4@4ax.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s04 1091418315 67.169.57.204 (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:45:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:45:15 GMT Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:45:15 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s04.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18357 "pr" did speak forth on Sun, 1 Aug 2004 07:19:01 +0200: >How different it reads to other posts which essentially say >-what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not matter) I've never heard anyone say that. Perhaps I wasn't paying attention. Every teacher I have known has always stressed that while intent of the practitioner is very important, healing comes from within the recipient. >-Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) >-nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) Nope... never heard of that technique. Nice ideal though. All Automagical and stuff ;-) --- http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200 Lines: 70 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-112.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 2 Aug 2004 08:19:50 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-112.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!surfnet.nl!teleglobe.net!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-112.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18358 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET... : On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" : wrote: : : >IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners : >who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" : >and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any : >responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about : >metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open : >minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning : >fast $$$. : : Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you : superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite : of ourselves. Why don't *you* get off your high horse and realize that there are people who ARE SUPERIOR in what they are doing. How come I am not in Athens, running around an oval track, jumping over high bars or throwing things like spears or iron balls around? Because there are people who are superior to me in doing that. They may all be on drugs today, but even without any drugs, their results will most likely remain superior to mine. Of course, these things are defined by the rule of the game and we could invent one about how often you can shoot yourself into the foot before no foot is left anymore. But that would not be much fun, nor would it be repeatable.. : >Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's : >best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising : >Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth : >of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often : >observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point : >of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That is - : >in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such : >tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I : >postpone the attunement and training. : : Good thing you're in charge to do all that wonderful policing of the : Lightworker community. I'm reminded of another well-policed : organization that you might have learned about in school, if not at : your grandparents' knees. Ah, how soon hard-won lessons are forgotten! It is not about policing but about having standards. If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we should talk about such things, otherwise it will always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, not because the world is populated by lunatics, but because we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are lunatics. Healing is a serious business and dabblers who have their own agendas, have no place in it. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:11:32 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 73 Message-ID: <410df4dd$0$14172$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1380P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091433693 newsreader02.highway.telekom.at 14172 80.121.44.112 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader02.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18362 Hi Garry, > Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you > superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite > of ourselves. why do you react that sarcastic and negative? Did I push any sore buttons? I am not putting ALL the Reiki practitioners into one big imaginary pot. There are many who really want to help others and whose primary concern is not money. Who said that I am superior? Do you feel like that? I certainly dont. To me, everybody is the same as everybody has a Divine soul. Love and warm regards, Elisabeth http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" > wrote: > > >IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners > >who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" > >and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any > >responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about > >metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > >minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning > >fast $$$. > > Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you > superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite > of ourselves. > > >Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's > >best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising > >Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth > >of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often > >observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point > >of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That is - > >in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such > >tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > >postpone the attunement and training. > > Good thing you're in charge to do all that wonderful policing of the > Lightworker community. I'm reminded of another well-policed > organization that you might have learned about in school, if not at > your grandparents' knees. Ah, how soon hard-won lessons are forgotten! > > > namaste, > > Garry > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:31:03 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 110 Message-ID: <410df96f$0$9866$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1380P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091434864 newsreader01.highway.telekom.at 9866 80.121.44.112 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!news.cs.univ-paris8.fr!news.zanker.org!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!newsfeeder1.noc.eunet-ag.at!news.eunet.at!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader01.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18363 Hi dear Peter, > It is not about policing but about having standards. > If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we > should talk about such things, otherwise it will > always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, not because > the world is populated by lunatics, but because > we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are > lunatics. > Healing is a serious business and dabblers who > have their own agendas, have no place in it. I agree with that, there need to be certain standards and guidelines. There are much too many frauds and psychopaths around who make Reiki and other healing modalities look ridiculous in the eyes of the public and otherwise open-minded medical professionals. And all that works against the Reiki practitoners and other alternative healers who are really serious with healing and wanting to help others. Love and warm regards, Elisabeth http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html "pr" wrote in message news:410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET... > : On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" > : wrote: > : > : >IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners > : >who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" > : >and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid > any > : >responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much > about > : >metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > : >minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning > : >fast $$$. > : > : Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you > : superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite > : of ourselves. > > Why don't *you* get off your high horse and realize > that there are people who ARE SUPERIOR in what > they are doing. > How come I am not in Athens, running around an > oval track, jumping over high bars or throwing things > like spears or iron balls around? Because there are > people who are superior to me in doing that. They may > all be on drugs today, but even without any drugs, their > results will most likely remain superior to mine. > Of course, these things are defined by the rule of the > game and we could invent one about how often you can > shoot yourself into the foot before no foot is left anymore. > But that would not be much fun, nor would it be repeatable.. > > : >Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one > like's > : >best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising > : >Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the > warmth > : >of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often > : >observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the > point > : >of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That > is - > : >in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise > such > : >tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > : >postpone the attunement and training. > : > : Good thing you're in charge to do all that wonderful policing of the > : Lightworker community. I'm reminded of another well-policed > : organization that you might have learned about in school, if not at > : your grandparents' knees. Ah, how soon hard-won lessons are forgotten! > > It is not about policing but about having standards. > If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we > should talk about such things, otherwise it will > always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, not because > the world is populated by lunatics, but because > we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are > lunatics. > Healing is a serious business and dabblers who > have their own agendas, have no place in it. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:27:10 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: <410e23cd.2663870@news.Individual.NET> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410df96f$0$9866$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de wad2M1NNflWppNlCpgWfwgrQwtFgce5WNhbUqh48STJGQTXK/T X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18367 On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:31:03 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: >I agree with that, there need to be certain standards and guidelines. There >are much too many frauds and psychopaths around who make Reiki and other >healing modalities look ridiculous in the eyes of the public and otherwise >open-minded medical professionals. And all that works against the Reiki >practitoners and other alternative healers who are really serious with >healing and wanting to help others. Yes, Elisabeth, of course. But does littering one's explanations with one's personal brand of New Age metaphysics help that cause or hurt it? Just something to keep in mind when presenting to the public and the scientific establishment. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 11:59:40 GMT Lines: 84 Message-ID: <410e2568.3075359@news.Individual.NET> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410df4dd$0$14172$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de x3wHBCuOXPwL2lZ10rGaVQf9Cb8auDWwE2v7UBh23TjKDyAM9q X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18368 On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:11:32 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: >Hi Garry, > >> Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you >> superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite >> of ourselves. > >why do you react that sarcastic and negative? Did I push any sore buttons? See below! >I am not putting ALL the Reiki practitioners into one big imaginary pot. >There are many who really want to help others and whose primary concern is >not money. Obviously you weren't putting ALL Reiki practitioners in one big imaginary pot. Only certain ones: >> A good post that recognises that there are many factors >> that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. >> How different it reads to other posts which essentially say >> -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not >> matter) >> -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) >> -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) >> >> To me, who, where, what, when and how all matter. > IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any > responsibility and deeper thinking. Does this mean that you think I avoid any responsibility or deep thinking and put my head in the sand because in my experience it is not only less effective, but not the point of doing Reiki, for the practitioner to try to direct Reiki in ways much as an allopathic doctor would make a diagnosis and prescribe a specific course of therapy? >They generally do not know much about > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning > fast $$$. I will admit to having never studied Theosophy, Magick, Freemasonry or any such thing if that's what you mean by metaphysics and energy dynamics. I'm from Missouri (look it up if you don't know what it means) and attended the School of Hard Knox. I also make no claims to being clairvoyant. But how do you leap to the conclusion that I am not open minded/experienced and am mainly interested in earning fast $$$ just because I happen to disagree with you and Peter on certain philosophical aspects of our art? > Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's > best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising > Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth > of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often > observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point > of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That is - Okay so far, but... > in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such > tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > postpone the attunement and training. You may, of course, do as you wish, but it just seems to me that putting oneself in the position of judging others to see if they are worthy of receiving healing (and I'm speaking of a student becoming attuned, not just a client receiving a session) is a slippery slope that may start, ostensibly, with wanting to maintain control of the purity of the art, or being for the student's "own good" but may quickly slide down to issues of ego and power. Of course, YMMV. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:13:27 GMT Lines: 59 Message-ID: <410e2cb3.4942654@news.Individual.NET> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de ln/0UV5THlRe2Ccz6wUupAv/U3g+YwN3G+94vqidAbmBknSfYa X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18369 On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET... >: On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" >: wrote: >: >: >IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners >: >who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" >: >and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid >any >: >responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much >about >: >metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open >: >minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning >: >fast $$$. >: >: Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you >: superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite >: of ourselves. > >Why don't *you* get off your high horse and realize >that there are people who ARE SUPERIOR in what >they are doing. Because if I get off of my high horse, I won't be tall enough to reach up and touch your stirrup. :-) >It is not about policing but about having standards. >If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we >should talk about such things, otherwise it will >always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, not because >the world is populated by lunatics, but because >we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are >lunatics. Sure! Who would disagree with that? But what's that got to do with what I was saying to Elisabeth? I was pointing out that she was overgeneralizing just a wee bit much and casting aspersions where she probably didn't intend to. Now you're off on a tirade about standards. Focus, Peter, focus! >Healing is a serious business and dabblers who >have their own agendas, have no place in it. Must you leave so soon? :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410e2cb3.4942654@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:27:19 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 25 Message-ID: <410e30ce$0$17624$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1380P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091449038 newsreader01.highway.telekom.at 17624 80.121.44.112 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed01.chello.at!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader01.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18370 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:410e2cb3.4942654@news.Individual.NET... > On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200, "pr" wrote: > I was pointing out that she was > overgeneralizing just a wee bit much and casting aspersions where she > probably didn't intend to. ASPERSIONS??? No, dear Garry. I was pointing out my own observations about the behaviour of many so-called Lightworkers that I made during the years, not more or less than that. I am a very honest and frank person, and I never say something that I do not feel in my heart to be true. Elisabeth --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 06:39:00 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 65 Message-ID: <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du42.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091450195 20796 65.19.43.42 (2 Aug 2004 12:36:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:36:35 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.glorb.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18372 On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200 "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: > Hi Peter, > thanks for your input. :-))) > > > A good post that recognises that there are many factors > > that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. > > How different it reads to other posts which essentially say > > -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not > matter) > > -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) > > -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) Elisabeth wrote: > IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any > responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning > fast $$$. > Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's > best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising > Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth > of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often > observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point > of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients." You mean like the statements below? Elisabeth wrote: " IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open minded/experienced, (unlike yourself) and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning fast $$$." Elisabeth wrote: " That is - in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I postpone the attunement and training." " Who said that I am superior?. . . " love is.. . . ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410df96f$0$9866$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> <410e23cd.2663870@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:21:00 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 86 Message-ID: <410e3d63$0$32592$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1380P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091452259 newsreader01.highway.telekom.at 32592 80.121.44.112 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed01.chello.at!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader01.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18374 HI again, Garry. :-) > Yes, Elisabeth, of course. But does littering one's explanations with > one's personal brand of New Age metaphysics help that cause or hurt > it? Just something to keep in mind when presenting to the public and > the scientific establishment. 1) I am not "littering" a "personal brand of New Age metaphysics". There are certain universal truths that exist since the beginning of time, and if one wants to understand energy dynamics then it is impossible to avoid learning or channeling about them. 2) MPRUE is an advanced energy healing system and it's practitioners already have many years of experience in energy healing (some have up to 35 years of experience with Reiki and other energy healing systems) and got interested in exploring deeper, before they joined and got attuned to the MPRUE energies, and learned the MPRUE methods. 3) While the basic and "passive" Usui system is just an "laying on of hands and channeling the energies" with as much detachment of the practitioner as possible - making her or him just a "conduit", MPRUE uses in addition to the channeled energies certain highly effective techniques that require the active participation of the practitioner, for example energy surgery (active removal of "negative" energy structures, the golden light meditation, removal of opportunistic attachments, chakra balancing, removal of blockages, grounding techniques, manifestation techniques, etc.). 4) I am not making active advertisement for MPRUE but trust that whoever resonates with it and is open-minded enough to explore other methods, will step out of the "general Western mainstream" to learn advanced techniques, will find her/his ways to either MPRUE or to another system, like Pranic Healing, Nei Gong, Yellow Bamboo, Tai Chi, etc. There are many systems but the universal truths are the same, if you boil them down to their basic essence. 5) Several of our MPRUE initiates are medical doctors and professional scientists. They have no problems accepting the universal truths and the MPRUE methods which are based on them. Also, neither Reiki nor MPRUE nor any other serious system is a sect or religion. Spiritual development happens at an individual speed and everybody has their own path, including you. One can only offer knowledge, how far the student assimilates and integrates that into her or his own belief-system is their own decision. Eventually, we all will reach Home, even the bone-dry opponents of Reiki and alternative healing methods. They just take longer, maybe even several incarnations. With love and warm regards, Elisabeth http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:410e23cd.2663870@news.Individual.NET... > On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:31:03 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" > wrote: > > >I agree with that, there need to be certain standards and guidelines. There > >are much too many frauds and psychopaths around who make Reiki and other > >healing modalities look ridiculous in the eyes of the public and otherwise > >open-minded medical professionals. And all that works against the Reiki > >practitoners and other alternative healers who are really serious with > >healing and wanting to help others. > > Yes, Elisabeth, of course. But does littering one's explanations with > one's personal brand of New Age metaphysics help that cause or hurt > it? Just something to keep in mind when presenting to the public and > the scientific establishment. > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za><410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com><410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at><410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za><410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:28:03 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 97 Message-ID: <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1380P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091452682 newsreader02.highway.telekom.at 23664 80.121.44.112 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader02.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18377 HI Kevin, I am just talking about my observations. I am not happy about them, and there is no point in putting one's head into the sand and pretending that everything is ok in the Reiki world. If others verbalize their opinion and talk about their experiences in the newsgroup then I am certainly allowed to do so, too. Love, Elisabeth "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com... > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200 > "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: > > > Hi Peter, > > thanks for your input. :-))) > > > > > A good post that recognises that there are many factors > > > that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. > > > How different it reads to other posts which essentially say > > > -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not > > matter) > > > -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) > > > -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) > > Elisabeth wrote: > > > IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners > > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" > > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any > > responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much about > > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > > minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning > > fast $$$. > > Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's > > best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising > > Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth > > of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often > > observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point > > of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients." > > > You mean like the statements below? > > Elisabeth wrote: > " IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki > practitioners > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very > "comfortable" > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid > any > responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much > about > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > minded/experienced, > > (unlike yourself) > > and - at the worst - are mainly interested in > earning > fast $$$." > > > Elisabeth wrote: > " That is - > in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such > tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > postpone the attunement and training." > > " Who said that I am superior?. . . " > > love is.. . . > > > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:35:13 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 114 Message-ID: <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du119.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091457178 24230 65.19.43.119 (2 Aug 2004 14:32:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 14:32:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newshub.sdsu.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18381 On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:28:03 +0200 "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: > HI Kevin, > I am just talking about my observations. I am not happy about them, and > there is no point in putting one's head into the sand and pretending that > everything is ok in the Reiki world. > If others verbalize their opinion and talk about their experiences in the > newsgroup then I am certainly allowed to do so, too. > Love, > Elisabeth Hello Elisabeth, Your observations just seem a bit on the judgemental side. Yes, of course you have a right to verbalize your opinions but of course you may be taken to task over them as well:) What isn't ok in the reiki world? > "Kevin" wrote in message > news:20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com... > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 13:24:20 +0200 > > "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: > > > > > Hi Peter, > > > thanks for your input. :-))) > > > > > > > A good post that recognises that there are many factors > > > > that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. > > > > How different it reads to other posts which essentially say > > > > -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not > > > matter) > > > > -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) > > > > -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't > matter) > > > > Elisabeth wrote: > > > > > IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki > practitioners > > > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very > "comfortable" > > > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid > any > > > responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much > about > > > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > > > minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in > earning > > > fast $$$. > > > Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one > like's > > > best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for > practising > > > Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the > warmth > > > of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I > often > > > observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the > point > > > of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients." > > > > > > You mean like the statements below? > > > > Elisabeth wrote: > > " IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki > > practitioners > > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very > > "comfortable" > > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid > > any > > responsibility and deeper thinking. They generally do not know much > > about > > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > > minded/experienced, > > > > (unlike yourself) > > > > and - at the worst - are mainly interested in > > earning > > fast $$$." > > > > > > Elisabeth wrote: > > " That is - > > in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise > such > > tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > > postpone the attunement and training." > > > > " Who said that I am superior?. . . " > > > > love is.. . . > > > > > > > > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 > > ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410df4dd$0$14172$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410e2568.3075359@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 16:52:38 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 187 Message-ID: <410e52db$0$12432$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1390P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091457756 newsreader02.highway.telekom.at 12432 80.121.45.187 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader02.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18382 HI again Garry, > Does this mean that you think I avoid any responsibility or deep > thinking and put my head in the sand because in my experience it is > not only less effective, but not the point of doing Reiki, for the > practitioner to try to direct Reiki in ways much as an allopathic > doctor would make a diagnosis and prescribe a specific course of > therapy? Your personal experience is your personal experience and forms your personal opinion. This does not mean that others can not get a different type of experience with Reiki and related universal energies, and that others are wrong just because they do not share your opinion. Everybody is on her/his personal path. I have done basic Usui Reiki up to Master/Teacher level and helped many people heal with just the basic Usui Reiki. But then Spirit and my own intuition guided me to do more specific energy work in addition to the basic Usui method of just letting the energies flow where they are being drawn to. I found the combination of both much more effective, and slowly the MPRUE methods developed. But that is just my own experience, and the experience of many MPRUE initiates who use the MPRUE methods for healing and in their daily life. ---------------------------------- > I will admit to having never studied Theosophy, Magick, Freemasonry or > any such thing if that's what you mean by metaphysics and energy > dynamics. I'm from Missouri (look it up if you don't know what it > means) and attended the School of Hard Knox. I also make no claims to > being clairvoyant. But how do you leap to the conclusion that I am not > open minded/experienced and am mainly interested in earning fast $$$ > just because I happen to disagree with you and Peter on certain > philosophical aspects of our art? What is the "School of Hard Knox"? I never heard of it. What do they teach? I do not know you in person and did not say that you are not open minded/experienced and that you are mainly interested in earning fast $$$. But it makes me wonder why you feel targetted and what buttons I pushed in you that you react that defensive??? ---------------------- > > in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such > > tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > > postpone the attunement and training. > > You may, of course, do as you wish, but it just seems to me that > putting oneself in the position of judging others to see if they are > worthy of receiving healing (and I'm speaking of a student becoming > attuned, not just a client receiving a session) is a slippery slope > that may start, ostensibly, with wanting to maintain control of the > purity of the art, or being for the student's "own good" but may > quickly slide down to issues of ego and power. I have founded the MPRUE system and we have certain minimum standards about the character and spirituality and seriousity of our initiates. If we foresake our standards then the system is in danger to deteriorate and go the way other systems went. Quality is better than quantity. I would rather prefer to have 10 serious students who actually use their brains and are willing to discuss at an equal level, than to have 1000 "students" who are just "flock of sheep" interested in titles and certificates, but have no real interest and depth, and just say "yes" and "amen". Issues of ego and power: I agree, the danger is always there if one is in a managerial position anywhere. I had a difficult life so far both at the personal and professional level, and believe that I am by now mature enough not to fall trap to seductions. In fact, I have asked a few of the senior MPRUE students to point such tendencies out to me should they ever get the impression that I "slide down the issues of ego and power". I am known by my students as Elisabeth and asked them not to use titles within the system. There are students - mainly Asians - who called me "Guru", it was a cultural thing for them and they had a hard time adjusting to "Elisabeth", but they eventually did. MPRUE is a big family and all our initiates are family members for each other. With love, Elisabeth "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:410e2568.3075359@news.Individual.NET... > On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 10:11:32 +0200, "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" > wrote: > > >Hi Garry, > > > >> Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you > >> superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite > >> of ourselves. > > > >why do you react that sarcastic and negative? Did I push any sore buttons? > > See below! > > >I am not putting ALL the Reiki practitioners into one big imaginary pot. > >There are many who really want to help others and whose primary concern is > >not money. > > Obviously you weren't putting ALL Reiki practitioners in one big > imaginary pot. Only certain ones: > > >> A good post that recognises that there are many factors > >> that influence our life and therefore our healing practice. > >> How different it reads to other posts which essentially say > >> -what counts is only the healer's intention (so the client does not > >> matter) > >> -Reki knows what to do (both client and therapist don't matter) > >> -nothing can go wrong (so Reiki, the client and therapist don't matter) > >> > >> To me, who, where, what, when and how all matter. > > > IMO, the above statements are usually done by Western Reiki practitioners > > who took them over from their attuning "teachers" as a very "comfortable" > > and simplified, suiting way to "put their heads into the sand" and avoid any > > responsibility and deeper thinking. > > Does this mean that you think I avoid any responsibility or deep > thinking and put my head in the sand because in my experience it is > not only less effective, but not the point of doing Reiki, for the > practitioner to try to direct Reiki in ways much as an allopathic > doctor would make a diagnosis and prescribe a specific course of > therapy? > > >They generally do not know much about > > metaphysics and energy dynamics, are not (very) clairvoyant and open > > minded/experienced, and - at the worst - are mainly interested in earning > > fast $$$. > > I will admit to having never studied Theosophy, Magick, Freemasonry or > any such thing if that's what you mean by metaphysics and energy > dynamics. I'm from Missouri (look it up if you don't know what it > means) and attended the School of Hard Knox. I also make no claims to > being clairvoyant. But how do you leap to the conclusion that I am not > open minded/experienced and am mainly interested in earning fast $$$ > just because I happen to disagree with you and Peter on certain > philosophical aspects of our art? > > > Now, there is nothing wrong in earning one's living by doing what one like's > > best and feels most comfortable with, but the main purpose for practising > > Reiki and energy healing should be to help others out of love and the warmth > > of one's heart, not out of greed or worse. Also, I feel sad when I often > > observe how one Reiki practitioner competes with the other up to the point > > of badmouthing or even creating a fight for students and clients. That is - > > Okay so far, but... > > > in my opinion - not the sign of a real Lightworker and when I recognise such > > tendencies in a Reiki Master who is a prospective MPRUE student then I > > postpone the attunement and training. > > You may, of course, do as you wish, but it just seems to me that > putting oneself in the position of judging others to see if they are > worthy of receiving healing (and I'm speaking of a student becoming > attuned, not just a client receiving a session) is a slippery slope > that may start, ostensibly, with wanting to maintain control of the > purity of the art, or being for the student's "own good" but may > quickly slide down to issues of ego and power. > > Of course, YMMV. > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:09:58 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 47 Message-ID: <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du174.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091459323 24885 65.19.43.174 (2 Aug 2004 15:08:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:08:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.visi.com!news-out.octanews.net!petbe.visi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18384 On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200 "pr" wrote: pr wrote: > It is not about policing but about having standards. > If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we > should talk about such things, otherwise it will > always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, What lurks at the lunitic fringe also, are those who label it as such. . . .and you cannot control what others think and feel. As many times as not, *standards create mediocrity*. > not because > the world is populated by lunatics, but because > we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are > lunatics. Alway one integrates the new with the old. There will always be as many "brands" of reiki as there are practitioners and whatever you try to do to control that *is* policing. > Healing is a serious business The "business" of healing *is* serious. > and dabblers who > have their own agendas, have no place in it. Then, we are *all* dabblers. Love is... > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > ###### Message-ID: <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 57 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:13:16 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091473925 65.30.225.94 (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:12:05 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:12:05 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.giganews.com.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18388 Hi Kevin, Kevin wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:28:03 +0200 > "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: > > > HI Kevin, > > I am just talking about my observations. I am not happy > > about them, and there is no point in putting one's head into > > the sand and pretending that everything is ok in the Reiki > > world. If others verbalize their opinion and talk about their > > experiences in the newsgroup then I am certainly allowed to > > do so, too. > > Love, > > Elisabeth > > Hello Elisabeth, > Your observations just seem a bit on the judgemental side. > Yes, of course you have a right to verbalize your opinions > but of course you may be taken to task over them as well:) > What isn't ok in the reiki world? If your linux news reader shows the messages as threads go back to Elisabeth's reply to my message where I commented to Seven about the 2,860,000 Reiki sites that google has listed & how many of them call what they are selling Reiki but actually have very little, if anything, to do with Usui Reiki. Elisabeth & Peter were replying to & stating their POV to statements I made in this post. "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com... > Hi Seven, So if you wish to take someone to task, keep in mind that I am the person that originally made the statements that are being discussed. All I ask of you is go & look at a few thousand of the pages that google has listed first then come back & we can discuss what some people are calling Reiki. GramPaHugs, Alex, :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410e2cb3.4942654@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 01:09:16 +0200 Lines: 48 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-145.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410f9175.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 3 Aug 2004 15:21:57 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-145.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-145.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18419 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:410e2cb3.4942654@news.Individual.NET... : On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200, "pr" wrote: : > : >"Garry Williams" wrote in message : >news:410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET... : >: Really? Is that what we're all about? Thank goodness we have you : >: superior people to reveal our true selves and look out for us in spite : >: of ourselves. : > : >Why don't *you* get off your high horse and realize : >that there are people who ARE SUPERIOR in what : >they are doing. : What is off-topic about an example that in the real world there are differences between people's abilities and that judging such abilities is something that is useful, often appropriate, and in these cases not something to be avoided? The "judge not" command applies to what a person IS but not to what they DO. When JC said "go and sin no more" he clearly made a judgement about that person's actions, although it is rarely portrayed as such. : >It is not about policing but about having standards. : Sure! Who would disagree with that? But what's that got to do with : what I was saying to Elisabeth? I was pointing out that she was : overgeneralizing just a wee bit much and casting aspersions where she : probably didn't intend to. Now you're off on a tirade about standards. : Focus, Peter, focus! You referred to policing and with it to control. I suggested that a discussion about standards would be beneficial. However, that would require a bit of self-evaluation and I get the sense that most of us would avoid this as long as we possibly can. The confusion and mystification of what Reiki is, is created to assist in that avoidance. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za><410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com><410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at><410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za><410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at><410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET><410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 02:27:55 +0200 Lines: 59 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-145.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 3 Aug 2004 15:22:01 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-145.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.moat.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-145.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18420 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com... : On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200 : "pr" wrote: : : pr wrote: : > It is not about policing but about having standards. : > If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we : > should talk about such things, otherwise it will : > always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, : : What lurks at the lunitic fringe also, are those who label : it as such. . . .and you cannot control what others : think and feel. As many times as not, *standards create : mediocrity*. We cannot control others, but we can influence them. Are you saying we should not even attempt that? Standards do not create mediocrity but highlights it. The remedy for this is not the abandonning of standards but the raising of them and uplifting the people so that they can achieve them. : > not because : > the world is populated by lunatics, but because : > we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are : > lunatics. : : Alway one integrates the new with the old. There will always : be as many "brands" of reiki as there are practitioners and : whatever you try to do to control that *is* policing. This shows the mindset that seem to be prevalent in this group and probably further afield. The formula seems to be: standards = control = policing This policing action is usually applied to others. Rarely do I read that this whole chain may be applicable to oneself, that the standards/control is not something that is forced upon me, but something that I *accept voluntarily* as a guiding mechanism to become a "better" person/practitioner. To put it differently, the control I am talking about is not something to restrict your healing practice, on the contrary, it sets the necessary pre-conditions for a healing practitioner to develop and hopefully flourish. We are so paranoid about controlling others or being controlled by others, so set on doing "our thing", that we cannot even see that there are beneficial elements in aligning ourselves with "control(s)" anymore. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 18:43:39 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 70 Message-ID: <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du80.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091493683 16089 65.19.43.80 (3 Aug 2004 00:41:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:41:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18407 On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:13:16 -0500 Alex Barna wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > Kevin wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:28:03 +0200 > > "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" wrote: > > > > > HI Kevin, > > > I am just talking about my observations. I am not happy > > > about them, and there is no point in putting one's head into > > > the sand and pretending that everything is ok in the Reiki > > > world. If others verbalize their opinion and talk about their > > > experiences in the newsgroup then I am certainly allowed to > > do so, too. > > > Love, > > > Elisabeth > > > > Hello Elisabeth, > > Your observations just seem a bit on the judgemental side. > > Yes, of course you have a right to verbalize your opinions > > but of course you may be taken to task over them as well:) > > What isn't ok in the reiki world? > > If your linux news reader shows the messages as threads go back to Elisabeth's > reply to my message where I commented to Seven about the 2,860,000 Reiki sites > that google has listed & how many of them call what they are selling Reiki but > actually have very little, if anything, to do with Usui Reiki. > > Elisabeth & Peter were replying to & stating their POV to statements I made in > this post. > hey alex, i am aware of the post you mention, and it is true . . . many things considered reiki by many people. Just as you have incorporated reiki into your belief about the UE. Others do the same with theirs. Do you agree with Elisabeth about this being what is "wrong" with reiki? love is. . . > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com... > > Hi Seven, > > So if you wish to take someone to task, keep in mind that I am the person that > originally made the statements that are being discussed. > > All I ask of you is go & look at a few thousand of the pages that google has > listed first then come back & we can discuss what some people are calling > Reiki. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > :) > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > **************************************************** ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: <5fjsg09qkocdpk4fau35ljpvuob86enakt@4ax.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410df1c9$0$20152$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s04 1091456476 67.169.57.204 (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:21:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:21:16 GMT Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 14:21:16 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!209.11.36.156.MISMATCH!nntp-server.pubsub.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s04.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18380 "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" did speak forth on Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:58:24 +0200: >So, IMHO, if one says that Reiki caused her/him to get out of emotional >balance then I really ask myself under which influence they got, or what >they really got attuned to. I think that was what I was implying previously, that it was something other than Reiki. You have an interesting site, by the way. I bookmarked it for later reading. (I have to get ready for the day-job now ... I like it and am happy to have it, but there are days when I would prefer to just relax. Oddly, they seem to fall especially on Mondays ;-) --- http://www.MEGA.bz ###### Message-ID: <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 137 Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:59:06 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091462275 65.30.225.94 (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:57:55 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:57:55 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18385 Seven wrote: > > Alex Barna did speak forth on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 > 14:50:22 GMT: > > >> >The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to > >> >visually perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden > >> >Mist that is everywhere in & around everything living & not > >> >living. It varies only in color & brightness & never moves though > >> >there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. > >> > > >> >> What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed > >> >> from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? > >> > > >> >That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* > >> >the light & the darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. > >> > >> I guess we see it differently. > > > >That is called individual perception. The spice of discussion. ^_^ > > > >> This is not a bad thing. > > > >It is a good thing. Life would be so boring if everyone saw things > >the same way & thought the same way & liked the same things. > > I am glad you feel that way. I do think that the "big picture" can be > subjective to our own experiences. The little picture also. ^_^ > It's not that I don't believe "dark currents," so to speak, do not > exist - I do, I didn't say that what may be called "dark currents" don't exist. They do, but even darkness contains UE. > but I believe they operate on an old energy, UE is the oldest energy. It existed before time & space & if you believe in the big bang, UE is where it would have taken place. > and are not part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier Can you explain what you mean by "the grid". >(of which reiki is a part). I have observed that the energy referred to by the term reiki is UE. > I believe that as the people of Earth become more centered as > a people, as a whole, that the dark wave energies cease to be as > functional as they were in the past. Nice thought but not very realistic in view of the world news. > That is one of the prime reasons I feel that the work that > Lightworkers do is so very important. Lightworkers, Energyworkers have been around on this earth as long as there have been compassionate thinking lifeforms. > The reason I feel this way is based on many things -- partly to do > with my teachers, certainly, but also my own experiences. Were we to > be sitting together in a coffee shop, this is one of those discussions > that could probably go well past closing time, but I will share one > small experience at least -- I have always had a psychic gift. Before > I studied meditation, it was very unfocused. I would have dreams, > often horrible dreams and visions, of things I could do nothing about I grew up during WW II, the Cold war & the Korean war when the horrible dreams were real, but I understand what you mean. > - because I did not know the source, or the destination. When I > started to study meditation, this changed. As I became more focused, > I found I could know more. When I started to study reiki - and > especially after my first attunement, even more so. To orders of > magnitude moreso. It has been an interesting path. And I trust my > intuition more than I ever did. I have had over 65 years experience working & playing with UE (I call it my Golden Mist) & only became aware of the practice of Reiki about 4 years ago. I have only been attuned to Reiki for 8 months. > It's still not as focused as it could be, but this form of > enlightenment is something to which I strive. Focus & practice. There is actually no limit to what any individual can accomplish. > I can recall last year, when at a restaurant with one of my teachers, > the waiter was interested in talking with us because we were working > with some Tarot there in the restaurant -- just parlor style really, > giving each other general readings and such. We invited him to join > us, and when I shook his hand upon introductions... I saw, I am sorry > to say, his final demise. My teacher also focused in on this, and we > looked at each other but did not speak of it. I gave him his > reading. And although the cards showed some intense change in his > life, including a Tower card placement that was not favorable, I > chose to focus on the positive aspects - encouraging him to seek > counsel in meditations and "healthful" activities. All I know about Tarot is that they are a tool that has been developed to interpret/visualize subconsciously received messages that come through UE. > Not to get off the track of where I started too much here, where I am > going with this is that I believe we can change the energies. As > individuals and as A People. (surely I made that point in there > somewhere ;-) I've tried to make that point here often by relating how I have *seen* people that had never heard of Reiki & wouldn't believe in energy healing increase the brilliance of the UE to a blinding Yellow Gold as bright as the Sun. UE always returns to what I *see* as it's normal state. GramPaHugs, Alex, > /seven > > --- > http://www.MEGA.bz -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <410EF1BF.DB048995@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 57 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 02:02:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091498559 65.30.225.94 (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:02:39 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 21:02:39 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!atl-c02.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18409 Kevin wrote: > > > Elisabeth & Peter were replying to & stating their POV to statements I > > made in this post. > > > > hey alex, > i am aware of the post you mention, and it is true . . . many things considered reiki by many people. Just as you have incorporated reiki > into your belief about the UE. Others do the same with theirs. > Do you agree with Elisabeth about this being what is "wrong" with > reiki? > love is. . . Hi Kevin, In the context that we were talking about Reiki practices that are barely recognizable as Reiki, Yes I agree with her because she was agreeing with me. I don't call Golden Mist or Grampahugs, Reiki & I try to keep the difference understandable. IMO I would be wrong if I did just so I could sell classes or books that had very little to do with the actual practice of Reiki which is what we were discussing. GramPaHugs, Alex, > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com... > > > Hi Seven, > > > > So if you wish to take someone to task, keep in mind that I am the person that > > originally made the statements that are being discussed. > > > > All I ask of you is go & look at a few thousand of the pages that google has > > listed first then come back & we can discuss what some people are calling > > Reiki. > > > > GramPaHugs, > > Alex, :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 07:40 +0100 (BST) Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <20040803004712.518f6b1a.arthealer@newmexico.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de toMF7S9Xul4fKBX2OP0JRQ+B4OGh/5P3t9zeNTw8v2vkFrUxI= X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18413 (Kevin) wrote: > because i would bet there isn't two of you in this group > that view or share reiki the same way. That's probably a truism .. Stuart ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 00:47:12 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 82 Message-ID: <20040803004712.518f6b1a.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410EF1BF.DB048995@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du174.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091515557 22788 65.19.43.174 (3 Aug 2004 06:45:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 06:45:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!nntpfeed.zonnet.nl!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!c03.atl99!news.usenetserver.com!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18412 On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 02:02:39 GMT Alex Barna wrote: > > > Kevin wrote: > > > > > > Elisabeth & Peter were replying to & stating their POV to statements I > > > made in this post. > > > > > > > hey alex, > > i am aware of the post you mention, and it is true . . . many things considered reiki by many people. Just as you have incorporated reiki > > into your belief about the UE. Others do the same with theirs. > > Do you agree with Elisabeth about this being what is "wrong" with > > reiki? > > love is. . . > > Hi Kevin, > > In the context that we were talking about Reiki practices that are barely > recognizable as Reiki, Yes I agree with her because she was agreeing with me. > I don't call Golden Mist or Grampahugs, Reiki & I try to keep the difference > understandable. i believe you make the claim that the UE you see is indeed the same energy that reiki employs, no? You talk of it as though it is the same and i have witnessed you correcting people about it.. . . because you claim to see it and therefore feel you have a better understanding of it . Where should the line be drawn? IMO I would be wrong if I did just so I could sell classes or > books that had very little to do with the actual practice of Reiki which is what > we were discussing. i think there are endless varying degrees of what you are discussing, and the point i make is who gets to make the judgement call? We all incorporate new ideas and concepts into our current ones. i believe the term "policing" came up in the conversation. If standards is what y'all want for reiki, in order for more people to view it as a credible healing art, you would need to incorperate some serious thought police, because i would bet there isn't two of you in this group that view or share reiki the same way. love is. . . > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > > news:410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com... > > > > Hi Seven, > > > > > > So if you wish to take someone to task, keep in mind that I am the person that > > > originally made the statements that are being discussed. > > > > > > All I ask of you is go & look at a few thousand of the pages that google has > > > listed first then come back & we can discuss what some people are calling > > > Reiki. > > > > > > GramPaHugs, > > > Alex, > > :) > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > **************************************************** ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 10:50:29 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 113 Message-ID: <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du104.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091551698 864 65.19.43.104 (3 Aug 2004 16:48:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:48:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18427 On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 02:27:55 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Kevin" wrote in message > news:20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com... > : On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 07:27:59 +0200 > : "pr" wrote: > : > : pr wrote: > : > It is not about policing but about having standards. > : > If we aim for a wider acceptance of Reiki then we > : > should talk about such things, otherwise it will > : > always be lurking at the lunatic fringe, > : > : What lurks at the lunitic fringe also, are those who label > : it as such. . . .and you cannot control what others > : think and feel. As many times as not, *standards create > : mediocrity*. > > We cannot control others, but we can influence them. > Are you saying we should not even attempt that? > Standards do not create mediocrity but highlights it. > The remedy for this is not the abandonning of standards > but the raising of them and uplifting the people so that > they can achieve them. peter, i play old-time square dance music. In the early sixties, traditional fiddle tunes became popular to the main stream here in the U.S. Becoming more popular became a problem because people wanted to play together and there were all these weird old fiddle players out there with different versions of the same tune. Ecclecticity, was one of the strong points of this genre of music. However, it came about that in order for people to be able to play the same tune together, the tune had to become what we term as "festivalized". . .which just means they standardized the tunes to pay at fesivals. This standardization is becoming the norm now, and when one goes back to some of the original recordings, the same tune is barely recognizable. In retrospect, it was a trade off; we can all call a particular tune by the same name and play it together but not only is it not the same tune as the original, it's potencey and beauty stemming from it's uniqueness was lost. In essence, the power of the tune was lost for the sake of popularity. i would hate to see this happen to reiki. Standardization does create mediocrity. oh, and if you were to standardize reiki, would it become manditory and standard practice for practitioners to utilize the precepts of reiki? > > : > not because > : > the world is populated by lunatics, but because > : > we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are > : > lunatics. > : > : Alway one integrates the new with the old. There will always > : be as many "brands" of reiki as there are practitioners and > : whatever you try to do to control that *is* policing. > > This shows the mindset that seem to be prevalent in this > group and probably further afield. The formula seems to be: > standards = control = policing standards=control=policing=mediocrity=mayaswellgotothefuckingdoctor This policing action is usually applied to others. Rarely do > I read that this whole chain may be applicable to oneself, > that the standards/control is not something that is forced > upon me, but something that I *accept voluntarily* as a > guiding mechanism to become a "better" person/practitioner. The very good reason it is usually applied to others is for the same reason you want standards. . .because you think your ways are right! > To put it differently, the control I am talking about is not > something to restrict your healing practice, on the contrary, > it sets the necessary pre-conditions for a healing practitioner > to develop and hopefully flourish. Tell me how "controls" don't "restrict"? The "pre-condition" is precicely what your are wanting to restrict. > We are so paranoid about controlling others or being controlled > by others, so set on doing "our thing", that we cannot even see > that there are beneficial elements in aligning ourselves with > "control(s)" anymore. yeah.. . it used to be so wonderful that an intire movement away from wonderfulness came into being. . i think they call it the sixties. love is. . . > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 97 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s53 1091544178 67.169.57.204 (Tue, 03 Aug 2004 14:42:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 14:42:58 GMT Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 14:42:58 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s53.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18421 Alex Barna did speak forth on Mon, 02 Aug 2004 10:59:06 -0500: >> but I believe they operate on an old energy, > >UE is the oldest energy. It existed before time & space & if you believe in the >big bang, UE is where it would have taken place. In part, I don't agree with this. But then neither of us are seeking validation, so this is also fine. Perhaps they are different pieces of the same puzzle. I see the energies that are available to us in the now to be something that has come about as a strengthening of will... of karmic lesson that we, as individuals, have been born into... that is to say, that while the energies may have existed, we were not able to see them. In such it is both old and new. > >> and are not part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier > >Can you explain what you mean by "the grid". Just trendy-speak, we are speaking of the same thing. > >Lightworkers, Energyworkers have been around on this earth as long as there have >been compassionate thinking lifeforms. Yes~! :-) > >> The reason I feel this way is based on many things -- partly to do >> with my teachers, certainly, but also my own experiences. Were we to >> be sitting together in a coffee shop, this is one of those discussions >> that could probably go well past closing time, but I will share one >> small experience at least -- I have always had a psychic gift. Before >> I studied meditation, it was very unfocused. I would have dreams, >> often horrible dreams and visions, of things I could do nothing about > >I grew up during WW II, the Cold war & the Korean war when the horrible dreams >were real, but I understand what you mean. I am a child of the 80's, thus what you saw to come about, I grew up as part of my past. There was never any doubt about the potential of global annihilation. We never had atom bomb drills, because we knew the potential of the warheads were so strong that hiding under a desk would never quite do it. There was no sexual revolution in my adult life, for we knew that human immunodeficiency syndrome (HIV) was all too like the result. But the visions to which I referred had more to do with people than world events... One of my earliest visions, I saw a plan skip off a runway and break apart over water. I felt the release of souls. I told my sister about it, and she of course scoffed. Six hours later the scene replayed in real-life over Boston's Logan Airport. s >> life, including a Tower card placement that was not favorable, I >> chose to focus on the positive aspects - encouraging him to seek >> counsel in meditations and "healthful" activities. > >All I know about Tarot is that they are a tool that has been developed to >interpret/visualize subconsciously received messages that come through UE. I am not so sure about why it works. I do think it involves more the interconnectivity of humans, of spiritual beings, inner knowledge, and the transmission of that into a form that can be read through both symbols and through general psychic awareness. > >> Not to get off the track of where I started too much here, where I am >> going with this is that I believe we can change the energies. As >> individuals and as A People. (surely I made that point in there >> somewhere ;-) > >I've tried to make that point here often by relating how I have *seen* people >that had never heard of Reiki & wouldn't believe in energy healing increase the >brilliance of the UE to a blinding Yellow Gold as bright as the Sun. UE always >returns to what I *see* as it's normal state. And that is beauty, yes? :-) Do you also see the individual rivens? Indigos and also the highest forms of platinum energies? It's a most impressive rainbow! > >GramPaHugs, >Alex, Back to you, with the hugs. Seven --- http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:25:54 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Lines: 59 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1091557529 28295 212.59.169.85 (3 Aug 2004 18:25:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!eusc.inter.net!news.eusc.inter.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18428 Seven wrote: > Alex Barna did speak forth on Mon, 02 Aug 2004 > 10:59:06 -0500: > >>>but I believe they operate on an old energy, >> >>UE is the oldest energy. It existed before time & space & if you believe in the >>big bang, UE is where it would have taken place. uh--- energy cannot be OLD energy is endless and everlasting Big bang never existed .. in fact exists brand new galaxies and suns and OLD and DEAD ones... the universe is like the cycle of season here on earth like water cyclelike stones cycles ... in the melting magma, as in the deposits in the oceans beds that become stone and become mountaisn again universe is.. transforming at differente pace end renewing itself endlessly.. when I was touring in the Monument valley and fromn Zion to Brice canyon , and when watching teh deppe colorady canyon with izs Shiva obsidiane melted rocks I realized how old and endless this universe is The big bang implies en end and a beginning as for us mortals , so we axtend that concept to universe as well... and it is wrong , it was a possible answerin the 30' not now.. The energy is motioning this universe and is creating and renewing by itself in this act I think that the yin and yang symbols express this concept of fusion and transformation of the energies in a bi dimensional image the energy is created by converstion from a polarity into the other from negative to positive it is the whole universe is a moto perpetuo machinery .. it extends itself in a dimensional space that creates itself at the same time while expamding .. quite mad concepts but maybe not so much .... but I always said .. when one cannot solve a problem think different and turn it upside down >>> and are not part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier >> >> Can you explain what you mean by "the grid". the grid ? we are within the grid we are part of it and the grid is within us .. > Seven the seventh Day God rested Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ###### Message-ID: <410FF195.B90A5A8@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 146 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:12:05 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091563852 65.30.225.94 (Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:10:52 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:10:52 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18432 Seven wrote: > > Alex Barna did speak forth on Mon, 02 Aug 2004 > 10:59:06 -0500: > > >> but I believe they operate on an old energy, > > > >UE is the oldest energy. It existed before time & space & if you > >believe in the big bang, UE is where it would have taken place. > > In part, I don't agree with this. But then neither of us are seeking > validation, so this is also fine. Perhaps they are different pieces > of the same puzzle. Or just different ways of thinking about the same thing from our different points of view. > I see the energies that are available to us in the now to be something > that has come about as a strengthening of will... of karmic lesson > that we, as individuals, have been born into... that is to say, that > while the energies may have existed, we were not able to see them. In > such it is both old and new. Well someone must have been able to perceive them in some way because their existence has been mentioned through history & have been the basis of many religions & civilizations. I used to think I was the only person to ever have seen UE as Golden. > >> and are not part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier > > > >Can you explain what you mean by "the grid". > > Just trendy-speak, we are speaking of the same thing. OK, I'm not very trendy. ^_^ > >Lightworkers, Energyworkers have been around on this earth as long as > >there have been compassionate thinking lifeforms. > > Yes~! :-) > > > > >> The reason I feel this way is based on many things -- partly to do > >> with my teachers, certainly, but also my own experiences. Were we > >> to be sitting together in a coffee shop, this is one of those > >> discussions that could probably go well past closing time, but I > >> will share one small experience at least -- I have always had a > >> psychic gift. Before I studied meditation, it was very unfocused. > >> I would have dreams, often horrible dreams and visions, of things I > >> could do nothing about > >I grew up during WW II, the Cold war & the Korean war when the > >horrible dreams were real, but I understand what you mean. > > I am a child of the 80's, thus what you saw to come about, I grew up > as part of my past. There was never any doubt about the potential of > global annihilation. We never had atom bomb drills, because we knew > the potential of the warheads were so strong that hiding under a desk > would never quite do it. There was no sexual revolution in my adult > life, for we knew that human immunodeficiency syndrome (HIV) was all > too like the result. > > But the visions to which I referred had more to do with people than > world events... One of my earliest visions, I saw a plan skip off a > runway and break apart over water. I felt the release of souls. I > told my sister about it, and she of course scoffed. Six hours later > the scene replayed in real-life over Boston's Logan Airport. That is what I meant by " but I understand what you mean." I had to many of that type of nightmare which I believe are an example of the type of information that some people can retrieve from UE. > >> life, including a Tower card placement that was not favorable, I > >> chose to focus on the positive aspects - encouraging him to seek > >> counsel in meditations and "healthful" activities. > > > >All I know about Tarot is that they are a tool that has been > >developed to interpret/visualize subconsciously received messages > >that come through UE. I should have said that this is my belief, based on what little I have learned about using items to make predications. > I am not so sure about why it works. I do think it involves more the > interconnectivity of humans, of spiritual beings, inner knowledge, and > the transmission of that into a form that can be read through both > symbols and through general psychic awareness. I guess the 'why' isn't really important. I'm just one of those people that naturally has to analyze everything. > >> Not to get off the track of where I started too much here, where I am > >> going with this is that I believe we can change the energies. As > >> individuals and as A People. (surely I made that point in there > >> somewhere ;-) > > > >I've tried to make that point here often by relating how I have > >*seen* people that had never heard of Reiki & wouldn't believe in > >energy healing increase the brilliance of the UE to a blinding Yellow > >Gold as bright as the Sun. UE always returns to what I *see* as it's > > normal state. > > And that is beauty, yes? :-) There have been times when I have prayed to have the ability taken away. > Do you also see the individual rivens? I see a blank Golden Mist (for want of a better word) with ripples of differing color & intensity like the ripples on the still, clear water of a sun lit lake. There are occasional bright waves & ripples & spots of brightness but never a rip or brake in the Mist. > Indigos and also the highest forms of platinum energies? I have never seen colors other than varing shades of Gold, ranging from a dull coppery gold to a briliant yellow gold. I've never *seen* silvers or grays or dark places in the Golden Mist except while I was dead in Oct. 1958. > It's a most impressive rainbow! What I *see* is dull compared to a rainbow. > Back to you, with the hugs. > > Seven > > --- > http://www.MEGA.bz GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 76 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s04 1091417921 67.169.57.204 (Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:38:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:38:41 GMT Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:38:41 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.moat.net!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s04.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18356 Alex Barna did speak forth on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 14:50:22 GMT: >> >The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to >> >visually perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden >> >Mist that is everywhere in & around everything living & not >> >living. It varies only in color & brightness & never moves though >> >there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. >> > >> >> What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed >> >> from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? >> > >> >That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* >> >the light & the darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. >> >> I guess we see it differently. > >That is called individual perception. The spice of discussion. ^_^ > >> This is not a bad thing. > >It is a good thing. Life would be so boring if everyone saw things the same way >& thought the same way & liked the same things. I am glad you feel that way. I do think that the "big picture" can be subjective to our own experiences. It's not that I don't believe "dark currents," so to speak, do not exist - I do, but I believe they operate on an old energy, and are not part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier (of which reiki is a part). I believe that as the people of Earth become more centered as a people, as a whole, that the dark wave energies cease to be as functional as they were in the past. That is one of the prime reasons I feel that the work that Lightworkers do is so very important. The reason I feel this way is based on many things -- partly to do with my teachers, certainly, but also my own experiences. Were we to be sitting together in a coffee shop, this is one of those discussions that could probably go well past closing time, but I will share one small experience at least -- I have always had a psychic gift. Before I studied meditation, it was very unfocused. I would have dreams, often horrible dreams and visions, of things I could do nothing about - because I did not know the source, or the destination. When I started to study meditation, this changed. As I became more focused, I found I could know more. When I started to study reiki - and especially after my first attunement, even more so. To orders of magnitude moreso. It has been an interesting path. And I trust my intuition more than I ever did. It's still not as focused as it could be, but this form of enlightenment is something to which I strive. I can recall last year, when at a restaurant with one of my teachers, the waiter was interested in talking with us because we were working with some Tarot there in the restaurant -- just parlor style really, giving each other general readings and such. We invited him to join us, and when I shook his hand upon introductions... I saw, I am sorry to say, his final demise. My teacher also focused in on this, and we looked at each other but did not speak of it. I gave him his reading. And although the cards showed some intense change in his life, including a Tower card placement that was not favorable, I chose to focus on the positive aspects - encouraging him to seek counsel in meditations and "healthful" activities. Not to get off the track of where I started too much here, where I am going with this is that I believe we can change the energies. As individuals and as A People. (surely I made that point in there somewhere ;-) /seven --- http://www.MEGA.bz ###### Reply-To: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" From: "Elisabeth Frauendorfer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:58:24 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 134 Message-ID: <410df1c9$0$20152$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: M1380P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1091432906 newsreader01.highway.telekom.at 20152 80.121.44.112 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.zanker.org!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!newsfeeder1.noc.eunet-ag.at!news.eunet.at!newsfeed.utanet.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader01.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18360 Hi "Seven", > It's not that I don't believe "dark currents," so to speak, do not > exist - I do, but I believe they operate on an old energy, and are not > part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier (of which reiki is a > part). I believe that as the people of Earth become more centered as > a people, as a whole, that the dark wave energies cease to be as > functional as they were in the past. > > That is one of the prime reasons I feel that the work that > Lightworkers do is so very important. I agree with that. But we still have a long way to go...... And the "dark waves" are not easy to get rid off, they are a real challenge. > Before I studied meditation, it was very unfocused. I would have dreams, > often horrible dreams and visions, of things I could do nothing about > - because I did not know the source, or the destination. When I > started to study meditation, this changed. As I became more focused, > I found I could know more. When I started to study reiki - and > especially after my first attunement, even more so. To orders of > magnitude moreso. It has been an interesting path. And I trust my > intuition more than I ever did. I experienced something similar. Before I got my first attunement to Reiki, I was a bit stressed out due to difficulties in the family and tensions at work. A little fight was enough for me to "explode" and if that was not possible due to circumstances, I "imploded" and had bad thoughts and "inner conversations" up to several hours. After the first attunement to Reiki, all that was gone and the next day I was on cloud nine, then for months on cloud seven, and now I am almost permanently on cloud five. If I ever get upset (it must be a real major thing to put me out of balance like that now!) I am under tensions for a few minutes or so and then I am again on my "cloud". So, IMHO, if one says that Reiki caused her/him to get out of emotional balance then I really ask myself under which influence they got, or what they really got attuned to. With warm regards, Elisabeth http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html "Seven" wrote in message news:aucrg0hpdrab0hnc8o3ftopu301hle801q@4ax.com... > Alex Barna did speak forth on Sun, 01 Aug 2004 > 14:50:22 GMT: > > >> >The way I *see* it. I was born blessed/cursed with the ability to > >> >visually perceive UE. UE/ULF is everything. I see it as a Golden > >> >Mist that is everywhere in & around everything living & not > >> >living. It varies only in color & brightness & never moves though > >> >there are 'things' & intensities that move through it. > >> > > >> >> What happens when you expose a shadow to light beamed > >> >> from the opposite direction. Does it not cancel? > >> > > >> >That is a human centric perception of the eye & mind. UE is *in* > >> >the light & the darkness & it *is* the light & darkness. > >> > >> I guess we see it differently. > > > >That is called individual perception. The spice of discussion. ^_^ > > > >> This is not a bad thing. > > > >It is a good thing. Life would be so boring if everyone saw things the same way > >& thought the same way & liked the same things. > > I am glad you feel that way. I do think that the "big picture" can be > subjective to our own experiences. > > It's not that I don't believe "dark currents," so to speak, do not > exist - I do, but I believe they operate on an old energy, and are not > part of "the grid" that I referred to earlier (of which reiki is a > part). I believe that as the people of Earth become more centered as > a people, as a whole, that the dark wave energies cease to be as > functional as they were in the past. > > That is one of the prime reasons I feel that the work that > Lightworkers do is so very important. > > The reason I feel this way is based on many things -- partly to do > with my teachers, certainly, but also my own experiences. Were we to > be sitting together in a coffee shop, this is one of those discussions > that could probably go well past closing time, but I will share one > small experience at least -- I have always had a psychic gift. Before > I studied meditation, it was very unfocused. I would have dreams, > often horrible dreams and visions, of things I could do nothing about > - because I did not know the source, or the destination. When I > started to study meditation, this changed. As I became more focused, > I found I could know more. When I started to study reiki - and > especially after my first attunement, even more so. To orders of > magnitude moreso. It has been an interesting path. And I trust my > intuition more than I ever did. > > It's still not as focused as it could be, but this form of > enlightenment is something to which I strive. > > I can recall last year, when at a restaurant with one of my teachers, > the waiter was interested in talking with us because we were working > with some Tarot there in the restaurant -- just parlor style really, > giving each other general readings and such. We invited him to join > us, and when I shook his hand upon introductions... I saw, I am sorry > to say, his final demise. My teacher also focused in on this, and we > looked at each other but did not speak of it. I gave him his > reading. And although the cards showed some intense change in his > life, including a Tower card placement that was not favorable, I > chose to focus on the positive aspects - encouraging him to seek > counsel in meditations and "healthful" activities. > > Not to get off the track of where I started too much here, where I am > going with this is that I believe we can change the energies. As > individuals and as A People. (surely I made that point in there > somewhere ;-) > > /seven > > > --- > http://www.MEGA.bz --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.727 / Virus Database: 482 - Release Date: 26.07.04 ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:37:52 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Lines: 44 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1091558247 3748 212.59.169.85 (3 Aug 2004 18:37:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.eusc.inter.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18429 Kevin wrote: > oh, and if you were to standardize reiki, would it become > manditory and standard practice for practitioners to utilize the > precepts of reiki? > tre precepts are useful just if you have assimilated them otehrwise are just plain sounds and anything else 10 Comandments are precepts and are not Reiki's precepts and if you follow them you are a Reiki person as well.. and if we use them as words without having assimilated teh concept tehy carry , teh comandments and precepts are just sounds and are meaningless and useless not even a magic spell >>: > not because >>: > the world is populated by lunatics, but because >>: > we, the reiki practitioners without standards, are >>: > lunatics. >>: >>: Alway one integrates the new with the old. There will always >>: be as many "brands" of reiki as there are practitioners and >>: whatever you try to do to control that *is* policing. >> >>This shows the mindset that seem to be prevalent in this >>group and probably further afield. The formula seems to be: >>standards = control = policing the point is that with philosophies ( religions) one can manipulate mobs and that means power .. so each person that wants to reach for power will create his own way of thinking his new dogma this is why and how one religion transformed into anothe religion and are stil splitting in sub religions and sects ... but there is just nothing underlying behind few thousands of years of religious history, just dust, just that ! Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ###### Message-ID: <410FDE27.58DF9C57@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410EF1BF.DB048995@mn.rr.com> <20040803004712.518f6b1a.arthealer@newmexico.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 126 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:51:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091559078 65.30.225.94 (Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:51:18 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 13:51:18 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!prodigy.com!atl-c02.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!c01.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18430 Hi Kevin, Kevin wrote: > > On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 02:02:39 GMT > Alex Barna wrote: > > > Kevin wrote: > > > > > > > > > Elisabeth & Peter were replying to & stating their POV to statements I > > > > made in this post. > > > > > > > > > > hey alex, > > > i am aware of the post you mention, and it is true . . . many things considered reiki by many people. Just as you have incorporated reiki > > > into your belief about the UE. Others do the same with theirs. > > > Do you agree with Elisabeth about this being what is "wrong" with > > > reiki? > > > love is. . . > > > > Hi Kevin, > > > > In the context that we were talking about Reiki practices that are barely > > recognizable as Reiki, Yes I agree with her because she was agreeing with > > me. > > > I don't call Golden Mist or Grampahugs, Reiki & I try to keep the > > difference understandable. > > i believe you make the claim that the UE you see is indeed the > same energy that reiki employs, no? Yes I do, I also close every post where I make any statement with; * Any information is included for informational * or entertainment purposes only, is based on my * personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. It's my opinion & that is all I have ever claimed it is. > You talk of it as though it is > the same and i have witnessed you correcting people about it.. . . If I came across as correcting anyone I apologize. I'm sure I always say it is the way I *see* UE. I have also stated often that others may experience UE differently. Newsgroups are intended for the Free exchange of opinions & information aren't they. > because you claim to see it and therefore feel you have a better understanding of it . Where should the line be drawn? I'm offering my POV, my opinion, my perception of how I perceive UE works. I'm not inventing a new type or version of energy healing that has little or nothing to do with Usui Reiki & claiming it is the newest, latest & greatest Reiki which is what was the point of the discussion, not taking Usui Reiki & adding a different POV to it. IMO, Reiki is Reiki anything else may be energy healing or use UE, but IMO it shouldn't be called Reiki unless it incorporates Reiki as the main component & anything added should be disclosed as not part of the original Usui Reiki. > IMO I would be wrong if I did just so I could sell classes or > > books that had very little to do with the actual practice of Reiki which is > > what we were discussing. > > i think there are endless varying degrees of what you are discussing, and > the point i make is who gets to make the judgement call? That is/was the main point of the original discussion. There are no standards or standards establishing body as there are with most healing professions so anyone can sell anything & call it Reiki. > We all incorporate > new ideas and concepts into our current ones. i believe the term "policing" > came up in the conversation. Not in the posts from Elisabeth, Peter, or me. We were discussing a lack of standards & accountability in relation to the claims, real or not, made by the poster identified as (none) That term was introduced by Garry. > > "Garry Williams" <---> wrote in message > > Good thing you're in charge to do all that wonderful policing of the > > Lightworker community. I'm reminded of another well-policed > > organization that you might have learned about in school, if not at > > your grandparents' knees. Ah, how soon hard-won lessons are forgotten! > > > > namaste, > > > > Garry > > If standards is what y'all want for reiki, > in order for more people to view it as a credible healing art, you would > need to incorperate some serious thought police, because i would bet there > isn't two of you in this group that view or share reiki the same way. > love is. . . " thought police " I guess someone might think of the WHO, AMA, ADA & all the other associations around the world that set rules & standards for their health care members that way. There are standards for most professions & if those standards of practice or education aren't met a person can't legally claim to be practicing that profession. If Reiki practitioners aren't willing to organize & at least set minimum standards of what can be called Reiki don't be suprised when some government does. I believe there already was an attempt to license & set standards to practice Reiki in England. GramPaHugs, Alex, :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 20:31 +0100 (BST) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <410FDE27.58DF9C57@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de qe1ATyDzr+Gb1H5EnrqzQw0VLQ+DcvpB6S2CxdPlw1Fat6+Kk= X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18431 (Alex Barna) wrote: > I believe there already was an attempt to license & set standards to > practice Reiki in England. That was the UK Reiki Federation ... http://www.reikifed.co.uk/ Stuart ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 22:23:24 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0083.E9856673@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1091564578 21877 212.59.169.85 (3 Aug 2004 20:22:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: <410D0083.E9856673@mn.rr.com> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!eusc.inter.net!news.eusc.inter.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18434 Hi Alex Alex Barna wrote: >>or a dead corpse ? > Actually a dead corpse is very much alive with bacterial life. :-) true but the main machinery has collapsed .. so I was thinking a difference would be detectacble.. in books I have read some *holy* persons had a sort of light still sorrounding them a little while hors after their physical death > You are welcome. Hope I answered your questions. yes partially, as we try to describe in human standards what you feel and it is not as easy as that .. I had an experience when 18 .. a sort of OBE while sleeping.. and i was floating in a golden mist a complicate dream , I was supposed to be dead ... the sensation linked to this experience and the feelings I experienced in dream are hard to describe as is hard to describe what love for our kids is Thanks again Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:55:59 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 152 Message-ID: <20040803155559.7da672db.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410EF1BF.DB048995@mn.rr.com> <20040803004712.518f6b1a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410FDE27.58DF9C57@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du235.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091570086 17065 65.19.43.235 (3 Aug 2004 21:54:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 21:54:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18436 On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:51:18 GMT Alex Barna wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > Kevin wrote: > > > > On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 02:02:39 GMT > > Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > Kevin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Elisabeth & Peter were replying to & stating their POV to statements I > > > > > made in this post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > hey alex, > > > > i am aware of the post you mention, and it is true . . . many things considered reiki by many people. Just as you have incorporated reiki > > > > into your belief about the UE. Others do the same with theirs. > > > > Do you agree with Elisabeth about this being what is "wrong" with > > > > reiki? > > > > love is. . . > > > > > > Hi Kevin, > > > > > > In the context that we were talking about Reiki practices that are barely > > > recognizable as Reiki, Yes I agree with her because she was agreeing with > > > me. > > > > > I don't call Golden Mist or Grampahugs, Reiki & I try to keep the > > > difference understandable. > > > > i believe you make the claim that the UE you see is indeed the > > same energy that reiki employs, no? > > Yes I do, I also close every post where I make any statement with; > * Any information is included for informational > * or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > * personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > It's my opinion & that is all I have ever claimed it is. > > > You talk of it as though it is > > the same and i have witnessed you correcting people about it.. . . > > If I came across as correcting anyone I apologize. I'm sure I always say it is > the way I *see* UE. I have also stated often that others may experience UE > differently. Newsgroups are intended for the Free exchange of opinions & > information aren't they. > > > because you claim to see it and therefore feel you have a better understanding of it . Where should the line be drawn? > > I'm offering my POV, my opinion, my perception of how I perceive UE works. I'm > not inventing a new type or version of energy healing that has little or nothing > to do with Usui Reiki & claiming it is the newest, latest & greatest Reiki which > is what was the point of the discussion, not taking Usui Reiki & adding a > different POV to it. hey again alex, now that the "point" of the discussion has beeen made, it has raised yet another sticky little issue which garry pointed out about "policing". Who gets to decide for everyone else where the line is drawn in the sand. . . "this is reiki, and that isn't? > IMO, Reiki is Reiki anything else may be energy healing or use UE, but IMO it > shouldn't be called Reiki unless it incorporates Reiki as the main component & > anything added should be disclosed as not part of the original Usui Reiki. Do you mean the precepts as the main component of reiki? Do you mean the intention that accompanies a session? Do you mean the symbols used and how? Do you mean hand positions? Do you mean any thought that happens that may influence a session? If something is excluded, then is it reiki? > > IMO I would be wrong if I did just so I could sell classes or > > > books that had very little to do with the actual practice of Reiki which is > > > what we were discussing. > > > > i think there are endless varying degrees of what you are discussing, and > > the point i make is who gets to make the judgement call? > > That is/was the main point of the original discussion. There are no standards or > standards establishing body as there are with most healing professions so anyone > can sell anything & call it Reiki. The problem alex lies in the fact that with the exception of a few like yourself, nobody can see the product. Results are the focus of any healing practice as peter has pointed out before. > > We all incorporate > > new ideas and concepts into our current ones. i believe the term "policing" > > came up in the conversation. > > Not in the posts from Elisabeth, Peter, or me. We were discussing a lack of > standards & accountability in relation to the claims, real or not, made by the > poster identified as (none) > "policing" is the term garry gave to y'all's position. i agreed. > > If standards is what y'all want for reiki, > > in order for more people to view it as a credible healing art, you would > > need to incorperate some serious thought police, because i would bet there > > isn't two of you in this group that view or share reiki the same way. > > love is. . . > > " thought police " I guess someone might think of the WHO, AMA, ADA & all the > other associations around the world that set rules & standards for their health > care members that way. There are standards for most professions & if those > standards of practice or education aren't met a person can't legally claim to be > practicing that profession. We are definately in the realm of "who's accountable for healing or not". Would reiki therapists need to carry mal-practice insurance? How about making the client carry it for creating their own illness and wasting the therapist's energy by refusing to release it? love is. . . > If Reiki practitioners aren't willing to organize & at least set minimum > standards of what can be called Reiki don't be suprised when some government > does. I believe there already was an attempt to license & set standards to > practice Reiki in England. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > :) > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <411031FE.F9E9F440@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0083.E9856673@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 68 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:46:54 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091580341 65.30.225.94 (Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:45:41 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 19:45:41 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18440 Hi Theo, Theo wrote: > > Hi Alex > > Alex Barna wrote: > > >>or a dead corpse ? > > > > > > Actually a dead corpse is very much alive with bacterial life. > :-) true > but the main machinery has collapsed .. so I was thinking a > difference would be detectacble.. > in books I have read some *holy* persons had a sort of light still > sorrounding them a little while hors after their physical death > > > You are welcome. Hope I answered your questions. > yes partially, as we try to describe in human standards what you feel > and it is not as easy as that .. I don't think you asked the question you would have liked answered, So I will answer the question I think you wanted an answer to. or a dead corpse ? As a Catholic Alter Boy I served many funeral Masses & often saw the energy image of the dead person standing near the coffin looking scared or confused (it is difficult for me to read the facial expressions of an energy being). Usually by the end of the Funeral mass they would realize they were really dead (that is what I thought) & they would rise up into the Golden Mist & sort of dissolve into a fuzzy ball of light that would often vanish before it reached the ceiling of the Church. I *see* basically the same thing when I *see* any living thing die. If this what you wanted to know? > I had an experience when 18 .. a sort of OBE while sleeping.. and i > was floating in a golden mist a complicate dream , I was supposed to > be dead ... the sensation linked to this experience and the feelings > I experienced in dream are hard to describe as is hard to describe > what love for our kids is That is the feeling I get when activating UE. That is the feeling I sent when we had the group attunement. > Thanks again > > Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 > > «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <411039E5.8FC89CF0@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410EF1BF.DB048995@mn.rr.com> <20040803004712.518f6b1a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410FDE27.58DF9C57@mn.rr.com> <20040803155559.7da672db.arthealer@newmexico.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 94 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:14:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091582077 65.30.225.94 (Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:14:37 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:14:37 CDT Organization: RoadRunner Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18443 Hi Kevin, Kevin wrote: > > On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:51:18 GMT > Alex Barna wrote: > > > hey again alex, > now that the "point" of the discussion has beeen made, it has raised > yet another sticky little issue which garry pointed out about > "policing". Who gets to decide for everyone else where the line is > drawn in the sand. . . "this is reiki, and that isn't? Well if a group of Reiki practitioners don't, eventually some government agency will unless it can be shown that the practice of Reiki falls under the Freedom of Religion. > > IMO, Reiki is Reiki anything else may be energy healing or use UE, > > but IMO it shouldn't be called Reiki unless it incorporates Reiki as > > the main component & anything added should be disclosed as not part > > of the original Usui Reiki. > > Do you mean the precepts as the main component of reiki? Can they be called a main component when fewer than 10% of the web pages mention them & few of those agree about what they are. > Do you mean the intention that accompanies a session? > Do you mean the symbols used and how? > Do you mean hand positions? Do you mean any thought > that happens that may influence a session? If something is > excluded, then is it reiki? You tell me. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about Usui Reiki. I talked to a few local teachers & got a different flavor from each of them. I have looked at hundreds of web sites & found hundreds of different flavors. Even the web sites suggested for the FAQ don't all agree on what the main components of Usui Reiki are. > > That is/was the main point of the original discussion. There are no > > standards or standards establishing body as there are with most > > healing professions so anyone can sell anything & call it Reiki. > > The problem alex lies in the fact that with the exception of a few > like yourself, nobody can see the product. Results are the focus > of any healing practice as peter has pointed out before. As you know we can't measure results in the USA. If a claim of healing is made that AMA is going to get upset & have the practitioner charged with practicing medicine with out a license. > > > > We all incorporate > > > new ideas and concepts into our current ones. i believe the term > > > "policing" came up in the conversation. > > > > Not in the posts from Elisabeth, Peter, or me. We were discussing a > > lack of standards & accountability in relation to the claims, real or > > not, made by the poster identified as (none) > > > > "policing" is the term garry gave to y'all's position. i agreed. > < bigger snip> > We are definately in the realm of "who's accountable > for healing or not". Would reiki therapists need > to carry mal-practice insurance? How about making > the client carry it for creating their own > illness and wasting the therapist's energy by > refusing to release it? > love is. . . How about some real answers, instead of how bad standards would be. :) GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 08:23:08 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0083.E9856673@mn.rr.com> <411031FE.F9E9F440@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1091600561 2411 212.59.132.244 (4 Aug 2004 06:22:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: <411031FE.F9E9F440@mn.rr.com> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!feed.news.tiscali.de!eusc.inter.net!news.eusc.inter.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18446 Alex Barna wrote: > As a Catholic Alter Boy I served many funeral Masses & often saw the energy > image of the dead person standing near the coffin looking scared or confused (it > is difficult for me to read the facial expressions of an energy > being). Usually by the end of the Funeral mass they would realize > they were really dead > (that is what I thought) & they would rise up into the Golden Mist & sort of > dissolve into a fuzzy ball of light that would often vanish before it reached > the ceiling of the Church. I *see* basically the same thing when I *see* any > living thing die. > If this what you wanted to know? NOt exactly I thought that maybe UE energy was enveloping alive bodies like Aura and that was sometimes still attached to a dead body few ours after death before vanishing .. What you say about the energy * image* standing by the coffin is very interesting I never sow it but often thought it could be like that > That is the feeling I get when activating UE. That is the feeling I > sent when we > had the group attunement. great one more step in understanding about this energy .. I neve sow it as you say but I have this feeling when I use/receive it but we all have different sensibilities .. and must accept that Thanks again Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 06:03:21 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 120 Message-ID: <20040804060321.4f3ba321.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802063900.6125b63c.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410e3f09$0$23664$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <20040802083513.5d85cd22.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410E924C.86C11096@mn.rr.com> <20040802184339.1ce2d976.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410EF1BF.DB048995@mn.rr.com> <20040803004712.518f6b1a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410FDE27.58DF9C57@mn.rr.com> <20040803155559.7da672db.arthealer@newmexico.com> <411039E5.8FC89CF0@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du39.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091620930 31151 65.19.43.39 (4 Aug 2004 12:02:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 12:02:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!sienna.impulse.net!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18454 On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:14:37 GMT Alex Barna wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > Kevin wrote: > > > > On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 18:51:18 GMT > > Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > > > hey again alex, > > now that the "point" of the discussion has beeen made, it has raised > > yet another sticky little issue which garry pointed out about > > "policing". Who gets to decide for everyone else where the line is > > drawn in the sand. . . "this is reiki, and that isn't? > > Well if a group of Reiki practitioners don't, eventually some government agency > will unless it can be shown that the practice of Reiki falls under the Freedom > of Religion. > > > > IMO, Reiki is Reiki anything else may be energy healing or use UE, > > > but IMO it shouldn't be called Reiki unless it incorporates Reiki as > > > the main component & anything added should be disclosed as not part > > > of the original Usui Reiki. > > > > Do you mean the precepts as the main component of reiki? > > Can they be called a main component when fewer than 10% of the web pages mention them & few of those agree about what they are. my point exactly alex. . . .who gets to decide which of Usui's teachings will be omitted for what appears to be lack of interest (or understanding) and which ones are deemed important. Either one may be altering the original intent. > > Do you mean the intention that accompanies a session? > > Do you mean the symbols used and how? > > Do you mean hand positions? Do you mean any thought > > that happens that may influence a session? If something is > > excluded, then is it reiki? > > You tell me. I'm trying to learn as much as I can about Usui Reiki. I talked to > a few local teachers & got a different flavor from each of them. I have looked > at hundreds of web sites & found hundreds of different flavors. Even the web > sites suggested for the FAQ don't all agree on what the main components of Usui > Reiki are. that being the case, would you want someone to decide for you? > > > > That is/was the main point of the original discussion. There are no > > > standards or standards establishing body as there are with most > > > healing professions so anyone can sell anything & call it Reiki. > > > > The problem alex lies in the fact that with the exception of a few > > like yourself, nobody can see the product. Results are the focus > > of any healing practice as peter has pointed out before. > > As you know we can't measure results in the USA. If a claim of healing is made > that AMA is going to get upset & have the practitioner charged with practicing > medicine with out a license. ok, then how do we 'standardize' reiki? . . . .because if you do, along with it will come some accountability. > > > > > > We all incorporate > > > > new ideas and concepts into our current ones. i believe the term > > > > "policing" came up in the conversation. > > > > > > Not in the posts from Elisabeth, Peter, or me. We were discussing a > > > lack of standards & accountability in relation to the claims, real or > > > not, made by the poster identified as (none) > > > > > > > "policing" is the term garry gave to y'all's position. i agreed. > > > > < bigger snip> > > We are definately in the realm of "who's accountable > > for healing or not". Would reiki therapists need > > to carry mal-practice insurance? How about making > > the client carry it for creating their own > > illness and wasting the therapist's energy by > > refusing to release it? > > love is. . . > > How about some real answers, instead of how bad standards would be. i'm listening.. . . love is > :) > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > **************************************************** ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> <410FF195.B90A5A8@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s01 1091683185 67.169.57.204 (Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:19:45 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:19:45 GMT Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:19:49 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s01.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18502 Alex Barna did speak forth on Tue, 03 Aug 2004 15:12:05 -0500: >I have never seen colors other than varing shades of Gold, ranging from a dull >coppery gold to a briliant yellow gold. I've never *seen* silvers or grays or >dark places in the Golden Mist except while I was dead in Oct. 1958. > >> It's a most impressive rainbow! > >What I *see* is dull compared to a rainbow. I really don't have time (tonight) to write a decent response. I just wanted to know I read your response and you made me smile. so.... thanks :-) /seven --- http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s02 1091683315 67.169.57.204 (Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:21:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:21:55 GMT Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:21:55 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s02.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18503 Theo did speak forth on Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:25:54 +0200: > > The big bang implies en end and a beginning as for us mortals , so >we axtend that concept to universe as well... and it is wrong , it was a >possible answerin the 30' not now.. Well there's a reason they call it a "theory" and not a "law".... has good grounding, but there's still so much we do not yet understand. I believe it is not as widely regarded as would have been implied by the media coverage when it was first making the world symposiums. (I am no expert on this, however) ###### From: Seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410C3793.A62FFA2B@mn.rr.com> <410D0494.2F44302F@mn.rr.com> <410E64CA.1DB87E9B@mn.rr.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s03 1091683469 67.169.57.204 (Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:24:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:24:29 GMT Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 05:24:29 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s03.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18504 Theo did speak forth on Tue, 03 Aug 2004 20:25:54 +0200: >> Seven > the seventh Day God rested Right on ;-) Seven Gods (and seven mortal sins), seven original planets, seven chakra... seven is the number of the mystic ;-)... that's why my friends started calling me that. heh... not that I didn't encourage them. gotta run... in ... er... 7 seconds. --- http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:05:46 +0200 Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-236.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <411227a8.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 5 Aug 2004 14:27:20 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-236.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!skynet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-236.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18514 "Theo" wrote in message news:ceom16$3l4$1@news.eusc.inter.net... : : the point is that with philosophies ( religions) one can manipulate : mobs and that means power .. so each person that wants to reach for : power will create his own way of thinking his new dogma this is why and : how one religion transformed into anothe religion and are stil : splitting in sub religions and sects ... but there is just nothing : underlying behind few thousands of years of religious history, just : dust, just that ! Thousands of years of spiritiual experiences, although formalized into a system - just dust, nothing underlying it. What then is the significance and validity of the spiritual experiences of the people living today? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za><410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com><410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at><410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za><410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at><410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET><410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com><410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:05:57 +0200 Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1209 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-236.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <411227aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 5 Aug 2004 14:27:22 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-236.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-236.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18515 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com... : On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 02:27:55 +0200 : "pr" wrote: : : > This shows the mindset that seem to be prevalent in this : > group and probably further afield. The formula seems to be: : > standards = control = policing : : : standards=control=policing=mediocrity=mayaswellgotothefuckingdoctor Thank you for showing us your mindset through the choice of your words. : The very good reason it is usually applied to others is : for the same reason you want standards. . .because : you think your ways are right! Because I think it might be useful. Thank you again for showing us your mindset through the choice of your words. : > To put it differently, the control I am talking about is not : > something to restrict your healing practice, on the contrary, : > it sets the necessary pre-conditions for a healing practitioner : > to develop and hopefully flourish. : : Tell me how "controls" don't "restrict"? The : "pre-condition" is precicely what your are : wanting to restrict. No, the pre-conditions is what I want to create! SInce things DO matter, there are always good and not so good conditions for something to happen. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:47:17 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 68 Message-ID: <20040805104717.07312e23.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <411227aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du186.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091724310 3913 65.19.43.186 (5 Aug 2004 16:45:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:45:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18524 On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 14:05:57 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Kevin" wrote in message > news:20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com... > : On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 02:27:55 +0200 > : "pr" wrote: > : > : > This shows the mindset that seem to be prevalent in this > : > group and probably further afield. The formula seems to be: > : > standards = control = policing > : > : > : standards=control=policing=mediocrity=mayaswellgotothefuckingdoctor > > Thank you for showing us your mindset through the > choice of your words. you are welcome peter, but then you knew that anyway. . . just as i know you have little faith in reiki to heal larger problems than a bit of stress. > : The very good reason it is usually applied to others is > : for the same reason you want standards. . .because > : you think your ways are right! > > Because I think it might be useful. > Thank you again for showing us your mindset through the > choice of your words. again peter, you are welcome but "useful" in this case means control. > : > To put it differently, the control I am talking about is not > : > something to restrict your healing practice, on the contrary, > : > it sets the necessary pre-conditions for a healing practitioner > : > to develop and hopefully flourish. > : > : Tell me how "controls" don't "restrict"? The > : "pre-condition" is precicely what your are > : wanting to restrict. > > No, the pre-conditions is what I want to create! SInce > things DO matter, there are always good and not so > good conditions for something to happen. So, if it were decided that to be a legitimate reiki practitioner one must first practice the precepts for an entire year. . . would you accept that as a pre-condition? . . .or then would you view it more as a control? love is.. . > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### Message-ID: <41127C54.AE5AB848@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <411227aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040805104717.07312e23.arthealer@newmexico.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:28:36 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1091730439 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:27:19 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:27:19 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18527 Hi Kevin, Kevin wrote: > > > So, if it were decided that to be a legitimate reiki > practitioner one must first practice the precepts > for an entire year. . . would you accept that as > a pre-condition? . . .or then would you view it > more as a control? > love is.. . You are the only person talking about control. Everyone else is talking about the 'minimum requirements' for a energy practice to be considered a Reiki practice. Your posts sound like you want anyone to be able to say they are a Reiki practitioner & even if they don't have a clue about the basics of Reiki. This thread started with a poster saying Reiki had harmed him & a few people saying Reiki can't do anyone any harm & that he is either mentally ill or a troll. I brought up the possibility that he had been treated by & attuned by someone that called what they do Reiki. Because there are no minimum standards, 'anything' can be called Reiki. There is no way to say a energy practice can do no harm just because it is can be called called Reiki, even if it isn't based on Reiki. GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:19:45 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 83 Message-ID: <20040805151945.6c96b8eb.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <411227aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040805104717.07312e23.arthealer@newmexico.com> <41127C54.AE5AB848@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du69.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1091740716 15357 65.19.43.69 (5 Aug 2004 21:18:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:18:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.glorb.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18530 On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 13:28:36 -0500 Alex Barna wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > Kevin wrote: > > > > > > > So, if it were decided that to be a legitimate reiki > > practitioner one must first practice the precepts > > for an entire year. . . would you accept that as > > a pre-condition? . . .or then would you view it > > more as a control? > > love is.. . > > You are the only person talking about control. no, y'all started it but just by a cuter name. >Everyone else is talking about > the 'minimum requirements' for a energy practice to be considered a Reiki > practice. Standards are controls. Who are these minimum requirements meant to benefit? What are the "minimum" requirements in your opinion? What's to keep someone from doing what appears to be the minimum but thinking other things and therefore not doing reiki? > Your posts sound like you want anyone to be able to say they are a Reiki > practitioner & even if they don't have a clue about the basics of Reiki. "anyone" *does* say they are a Reiki practitioner. How will standards hinder this behavior? > This thread started with a poster saying Reiki had harmed him & a few people > saying Reiki can't do anyone any harm & that he is either mentally ill or a > troll. > > I brought up the possibility that he had been treated by & attuned by someone > that called what they do Reiki. i don't buy that energies "happen" to someone without permission.. . so your claim doesn't hold water for me. > Because there are no minimum standards, 'anything' can be called Reiki. alex, can you give me an idea of what minimum standards may involve? > There is no way to say a energy practice can do no harm just because it is can > be called called Reiki, even if it isn't based on Reiki. i really don't think they can do any harm either way. . .but that's another topic. . . and another opinion:) love is . .. . > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > **************************************************** ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 17:21:07 -0500 From: "Joseph M. Kim" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 18:21:04 -0400 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.158.159.31 X-Trace: sv3-iKUuc7/vt6I0J8GliAm7BFEusULvCL/8XnS2jYTmOYpUGQ+jhs256/oPgKanPtUGvrS02a7uqoM2nDb!mzfNVAXto9CK2Q2I27FCDADjeIEvY3VaIL1DQgXtgHCRja4T3HcwuJNBVoJB8jc0f7JW0t05E7Nf X-Complaints-To: abuse@b2b2c.ca X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@b2b2c.ca X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.13 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.b2b2c.ca!news.b2b2c.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18538 Well maybe he was not ready for a reiki attunement. Maybe some people are not mentally ready to experience that kind of thing. I also believe that there are bad and good side to everything. He may have been the unlucky one. Jo. -- Hundreds of attunements http://www.1automationwiz.com/app/aftrack.asp?afid=157006 "Seven" a écrit dans le message de news:e3jng0p88l3gdda4oudhtmvaupd4hdgm3r@4ax.com... > "pr" did speak forth on Sat, 31 Jul 2004 > 07:55:04 +0200: > > > > >There is no point in that. His gripe is with the reiki people. > >As he sees it, rightly or wrongly, his troubles started > >with the treatments and attunements, he states that his > >teacher could not help, nor the reiki group he contacted. > >In his mind reiki started this whole thing and it is up to > >reiki people to fix it. > >He essentially says that we are dealing with something > >we do not have a clue about, and so when things go wrong, > >or are perceived to have gone wrong, we don't know what > >to do .... > > My take on this is that he went into a situation where he needed > healing, quite possibly a schizo personality issue from what he said, > and a situation in which he should also be seeking professional > psychiatric care. > > Reiki can be of use here with emotional calming and protection, but > the core issues are far more complex, calling for a multiphasic > treatment of traditional and nontraditional techniques. > > What he attributes to the results of Reiki, in my opinion, are > actually the results of the original disorder which is causing severe > problems in his life -- not Reiki related at all. > > My assertion is a nit on another part of your post, and I don't think > I quoted it (apologies), but Reiki can only do good because by > definition it is a "light" energy. It does not employ shadow energy > at all. Dark wave types can't even function around it. They simply > do not work. > > > --- > To send email,remove the shadow. > http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: b0b Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 15:15:00 +0200 Organization: Dis Lines: 51 Message-ID: <2nheilFve49U1@uni-berlin.de> References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410df96f$0$9866$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> <410e23cd.2663870@news.Individual.NET> <410e3d63$0$32592$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> Reply-To: hummelsr@yahoo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de coY1V6HznevkvkgpGetU7AfVcWm3DMvz7SzgjEgSzCMXId55ei User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: <410e3d63$0$32592$91cee783@newsreader01.highway.telekom.at> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18545 Elisabeth Frauendorfer wrote: > 3) While the basic and "passive" Usui system is just an "laying on of hands > and channeling the energies" with as much detachment of the practitioner as > possible - making her or him just a "conduit", MPRUE uses in addition to the > channeled energies certain highly effective techniques that require the > active participation of the practitioner, for example energy surgery (active > removal of "negative" energy structures, the golden light meditation, > removal of opportunistic attachments, chakra balancing, removal of > blockages, grounding techniques, manifestation techniques, etc.). Many of these techniques are taught as "Advanced Reiki" in several Reiki schools. > 4) I am not making active advertisement for MPRUE but trust that whoever > resonates with it and is open-minded enough to explore other methods, will > step out of the "general Western mainstream" to learn advanced techniques, > will find her/his ways to either MPRUE or to another system, like Pranic > Healing, Nei Gong, Yellow Bamboo, Tai Chi, etc. There are many systems but > the universal truths are the same, if you boil them down to their basic > essence. > 5) Several of our MPRUE initiates are medical doctors and professional > scientists. They have no problems accepting the universal truths and the > MPRUE methods which are based on them. > Also, neither Reiki nor MPRUE nor any other serious system is a sect or > religion. Spiritual development happens at an individual speed and > everybody has their own path, including you. One can only offer knowledge, > how far the student assimilates and integrates that into her or his own > belief-system is their own decision. Eventually, we all will reach Home, > even the bone-dry opponents of Reiki and alternative healing methods. They > just take longer, maybe even several incarnations. The same holds true for regular Usui Reiki Practitioners. I have found that each new system I learn brings enhanced ability to my basic Reiki channeling. Perhaps my view is lopsided having received Reiki before learning any of these other methods...but I see tham all as parts of the whole. Just as most religions of this world seem to share central themes, the same holds true with energy and light work. b0b > With love and warm regards, > Elisabeth > http://www.magnussa.com/mprue.html ###### From: Theo Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:17:04 +0200 Organization: [Posted via] Inter.net Germany GmbH Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410BEB2F.363E6D0A@mn.rr.com> <410c002a$0$31850$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410c8001.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <410cd08e$0$13242$91cee783@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at> <410d6f9b.5314810@news.Individual.NET> <410ddd06.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040802090958.178880d9.arthealer@newmexico.com> <410f9179.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040803105029.09967d5a.arthealer@newmexico.com> <411227aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040805104717.07312e23.arthealer@newmexico.com> <41127C54.AE5AB848@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: byjoke@ch.inter.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.eusc.inter.net 1091812620 16223 212.59.169.6 (6 Aug 2004 17:17:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eusc.inter.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it In-Reply-To: <41127C54.AE5AB848@mn.rr.com> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!eusc.inter.net!news.eusc.inter.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18551 Alex Barna wrote: > Because there are no minimum standards, 'anything' can be called > Reiki. There is no way to say a energy practice can do no harm just > because it is can > be called called Reiki, even if it isn't based on Reiki. > GramPaHugs, > Alex, well said unless if the Reiki pratictioneer keeps the patient away from medication.. but in this case is not a Reiki pratictioneer is juast mumbo jumbo witch doctor Theo_694@hotmail.com MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4 Private Mail : Theo@ch.inter.net «»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«» ###### From: "Steel Dragon" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Are reiki people loving? [was reiki is * NOT * loving] Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 14:59:55 +0200 Organization: Nerim -- xDSL Internet Provider Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <410b3b35.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: chorand.net1.nerim.net X-Trace: biggoron.nerim.net 1092142732 47001 213.41.139.75 (10 Aug 2004 12:58:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@nerim.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:58:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!proxad.net!nerim.net!biggoron.nerim.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18675 Hi Joseph, > Well maybe he was not ready for a reiki attunement. Maybe > some people are not mentally ready to experience that kind > of thing. I also believe that there are bad and good side to > everything. He may have been the unlucky one. I can admit that, even if it might scare the newbies around... in a sense that he would have been a latent "psycho-something", and the attunement would have woken up the whole thing. But I'm at a loss to understand how Reiki, a so intelligent energy, could be involved in real nasties. Which is why, up to now, I still can't see Reiki (genuine or close enough) as part of the story. I remember I've been amongst the first ones to suspect trolling. I'm not ruling your option out, but, I'd rather believe that if his story is true [not fake], he's either nuts (psycho-something), or the victim of a most unpleasant "black whitchcraft" sort of thing (possibly labelled Reiki, of course). Well, this is really a "my 2 cents" post... Henri