From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Precepts Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 Lines: 67 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-128.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 20 Jul 2004 14:02:40 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-128.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!surfnet.nl!teleglobe.net!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-128.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17935 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com... : On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:21:11 +0000 (UTC) : "Hilary Starke" wrote: : : > Enjoy! : > : > I am having a splendid day - and if someone would like to start a sensible : > thread on precepts and what they are and mean and, if brave, whether they : > can ever be ignored, I look forward to contributing with a will and a way : > and main force if necessary, all for the highest good of all concerned - : > lovingly and compassionately too. : : hi Hils, : been there done that, but without much success at drawing many out to speak their mind. Sorry to say, not many believers here it would seem. i love the precepts of reiki and know that if practiced faithfully and pondered on throughout the day, will induce an *exteremely* deep healing process that once begun. . . well, it's one hell of a ride:). i enjoy discussing them and look forward to your views! ~Kevin, Believers in what? In the validity of the principles? The practice of the principles? Is it necessary to belief in them or will they work their "magic" even if someone repeats them without believing them to be special in any way? Are they more effective if pondered at every possible moment, or do the beneficial effects carry on even if we are engrossed with other things? Are there possibly different ways of using them, practicing them, which could reconcile some of the apparent conflicts in the previous questions? E.g if you use them in this way then (something) and if you use them in that way then (something else) ? Would the two ever meet? Let's take something from what Alex posted, all referring to the same principle: Just for today, I will do my work honestly. Earn your living honestly. Work hard today. Be fair and honest with myself Devote yourself to your work. What work? The inner or the outer? If I work "to rule" am I still doing the work honestly, earn my living honestly, or is there something more required than the bare minimum? What does "work hard" mean when my job is quite intellectual, "thinking a lot? Only think about work?" If I am addicted to work am I devoting myself to work? Does it mean to only have positive thoughts about my work, eliminating or igoring the negative ones? If I am tired at 16:00 and take a nap, and work ethic says to work until 17:00, am I not living according to the precept anymore? There certainly seem to be plenty to discuss. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:56:21 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 140 Message-ID: <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du58.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090328356 11633 65.19.43.58 (20 Jul 2004 12:59:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:59:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!atl-c02.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!news.usenetserver.com!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17936 On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Kevin" wrote in message > news:20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com... > : On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 05:21:11 +0000 (UTC) > : "Hilary Starke" wrote: > : > : > Enjoy! > : > > : > I am having a splendid day - and if someone would like to start a > sensible > : > thread on precepts and what they are and mean and, if brave, whether > they > : > can ever be ignored, I look forward to contributing with a will and a > way > : > and main force if necessary, all for the highest good of all concerned - > : > lovingly and compassionately too. > : > : hi Hils, > : been there done that, but without much success at drawing many out to > speak their mind. Sorry to say, not many believers here it would seem. i > love the precepts of reiki and know that if practiced faithfully and > pondered on throughout the day, will induce an *exteremely* deep healing > process that once begun. . . well, it's one hell of a ride:). i enjoy > discussing them and look forward to your views! > > ~Kevin, > > Believers in what? In the validity of the principles? The practice of the > principles? yes, both pr. > Is it necessary to belief in them or will they work their "magic" even if > someone repeats them without believing them to be special in any way? The point of repeating them is to make them a part of your belief system.. . . part of your daily life. If you repeat them without the intention of 'becoming' them.. what is the point? . . . the words in themselves are not "magic". > Are they more effective if pondered at every possible moment, yes, the more they are kept in mind (practiced!) the more benificial. > or do the > beneficial effects carry on even if we are engrossed with other things? what it takes is a momentum of thought word and action . . . The only way to gain this momentum(through the precepts) is to *participate* in the precepts. . . and this is done by keeping them in mind as you go about your daily affairs. > Are there possibly different ways of using them, practicing them, which > could reconcile some of the apparent conflicts in the previous questions? *how else* could you 'practice' them?! > E.g if you use them in this way then (something) and if you use them in > that way then (something else) ? Would the two ever meet? yes, exactly. If you use them the way they are outlined you get results. . , if not, you don't:) > Let's take something from what Alex posted, all referring to the same > principle: > > Just for today, I will do my work honestly. > Earn your living honestly. > Work hard today. > Be fair and honest with myself > Devote yourself to your work. > > What work? Your work. >The inner or the outer? is *your* work inner or outer?. . or both? >If I work "to rule" am I still doing > the work honestly, earn my living honestly, or is there something > more required than the bare minimum? Do you not know what *your work* is peter? > What does "work hard" mean > when my job is quite intellectual, "thinking a lot? hmmm. .. if your work is intellectual and the precept says 'work hard' what should you do? >Only think about > work?" was that the directive of the precept? Why do you think this precept is present amongs the rest? > If I am addicted to work am I devoting myself to work? Does it > mean to only have positive thoughts about my work, eliminating > or igoring the negative ones? >If I am tired at 16:00 and take a nap, > and work ethic says to work until 17:00, am I not living according > to the precept anymore? In your case peter the author of the precepts couldn't have written enough, no? i think you enjoy being the devils advocate but in reality have no real interest in participating in the precepts. If you enjoyed the benifits of the precepts we wouldn't be having this conversation but rather rejoicing together.. . instead, you split hairs. If i really felt your interest i might be more enthusiastic about sharing with you but at this point i don't feel the need to hash out moot points. > There certainly seem to be plenty to discuss. The proof of the precepts is in the doing. love is .. . > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 21:49:00 +0200 Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-203-181.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40fdebc4.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 21 Jul 2004 06:06:28 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-203-181.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!elk.ncren.net!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-203-181.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17957 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com... : On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 : "pr" wrote: : : The point of repeating them is to make them a part of your belief system.. . . part of your daily life. If you repeat them without the intention of 'becoming' them.. what is the point? . . . the words in themselves are not "magic". Words are "magic" in that they are as much a reflection of our perceptions as they are creating it. They reflect as well as simultaneously create our temporal reality. The point of repeating them without intention to become them may simply be to see what happens when you repeat them. I know, to most people this is an absolutely revolutionary idea, one so absurd that they would never think of doing it. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:04:17 +0200 Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-203-181.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 21 Jul 2004 06:06:30 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-203-181.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-203-181.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17956 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com... : On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 : "pr" wrote: : : > Let's take something from what Alex posted, all referring to the same : > principle: : > : > Just for today, I will do my work honestly. : > Earn your living honestly. : > Work hard today. : > Be fair and honest with myself : > Devote yourself to your work. : > : > What work? : : Your work. : Do you not know what *your work* is peter? : was that the directive of the precept? : Why do you think this precept is present amongs the rest? : In your case peter the author of the precepts couldn't have written enough, no? : i think you enjoy being the devils advocate but in reality have no real interest in participating in the precepts. If you enjoyed the benifits of the precepts we wouldn't be having this conversation but rather rejoicing together.. . instead, you split hairs. : If i really felt your interest i might be more enthusiastic about sharing with you but at this point i don't feel the need to hash out moot points. You complain that many people take the precepts as moral guidelines only and not as healing tools. When I try to draw attention to the fact that all the English versions of the line about work really have no spiritual content and therefore do not point towards healing in themselves you respond to me as if I am an idiot. I bet that if you take the lines above and ask the man in the street what they mean then only a tiny minority would make a connection to "inner" work and the healing of self. The words themselves are missing the "magic" that creates the healing, but in a spiritually dead world you cannot expect that to imbue them with this quality would be a natural thing and thus they become mere moral guidelines. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "Hilary Starke" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:05:04 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 19 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-156-25-41.range81-156.btcentralplus.com X-Trace: hercules.btinternet.com 1090400704 11866 81.156.25.41 (21 Jul 2004 09:05:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:05:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!zen.net.uk!demorgan.zen.co.uk!194.72.9.35.MISMATCH!news-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17966 I am so sorry that I haven't caught up with this yet - I have been reading the posts with great interest. I am a bit of a stickler myself for the traditional Usui view - and I can't help but notice no-one has mentioned "Honour your Father AND Mother" yet. I may have missed this, but I thought I'd mention it. Have a great day now!!!!!!!!! Love and hugs Hils Unity Living: We are all one Hilary Starke Pastor, Universal Life Church, Reiki Master, Practitioner and Teacher Reiki in Girvan 1 South Park Avenue Girvan South Ayrshire Scotland KA26 0ER hilary.starke@btinternet.com tel: (44) 1465 714308 Signature powered by Plaxo Want a signature like this? Add me to your address book... ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:23:29 +0200 Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-105.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40fe56ae.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 21 Jul 2004 13:42:38 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-105.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!209.11.36.156.MISMATCH!nntp-server.pubsub.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.netscape.com!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-105.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17971 "Hilary Starke" wrote in message news:cdlbk0$biq$1@hercules.btinternet.com... : I am so sorry that I haven't caught up with this yet - I have been reading : the posts with great interest. I am a bit of a stickler myself for the : traditional Usui view - and I can't help but notice no-one has mentioned : "Honour your Father AND Mother" yet. I may have missed this, but I thought : I'd mention it. I see that as a sort of a combination of "Be grateful" and "be kind to others". And now to be controversial (or is that my usual state?), with the surfacing of the extent of child abuse within the family it may be understandable that at least some people would have extreme difficulty to "honour their father" and in many cases their mother too. Is to be honoured something that they unconditionally deserve or will it have to be earned? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:03:36 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 78 Message-ID: <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du37.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090411590 27893 65.19.43.37 (21 Jul 2004 12:06:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:06:30 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!atl-c02.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!news.usenetserver.com!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17973 On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:04:17 +0200 "pr" wrote: > "Kevin" wrote in message > news:20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com... > : On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 > : "pr" wrote: > : > : > Let's take something from what Alex posted, all referring to the same > : > principle: > : > > : > Just for today, I will do my work honestly. > : > Earn your living honestly. > : > Work hard today. > : > Be fair and honest with myself > : > Devote yourself to your work. > : > > : > What work? > : > : Your work. > : Do you not know what *your work* is peter? > : was that the directive of the precept? > : Why do you think this precept is present amongs the rest? > : In your case peter the author of the precepts couldn't have written > enough, no? > : i think you enjoy being the devils advocate but in reality have no real > interest in participating in the precepts. If you enjoyed the benifits of > the precepts we wouldn't be having this conversation but rather rejoicing > together.. . instead, you split hairs. > : If i really felt your interest i might be more enthusiastic about sharing > with you but at this point i don't feel the need to hash out moot points. > > You complain that many people take the precepts as > moral guidelines only and not as healing tools. When > I try to draw attention to the fact that all the English > versions of the line about work really have no spiritual > content and therefore do not point towards healing in > themselves you respond to me as if I am an idiot. i think anyone interested in healing *themselves* realizes they are not "in kansas anymore" once they make the committment. This committment is an agreement and sets ones feet firmly on the path. There is no mistake what "work" we are talking about. Only the uncommitted would mistake this "work" for another. > I bet that if you take the lines above and ask the man > in the street what they mean then only a tiny minority > would make a connection to "inner" work and the > healing of self. i am certain you are correct in this assumption. . . but as i've said, This "work" becomes very apparent very soon. There is something about working without the safety net of the medical profession that hones ones purposes very quickly and at the same time empowers your commitment to pay attention to your inner world for guidance. Some people get to this point after they have been abandoned by allopathic medicine for lack of an effective treatment. When one must rely on ones own knowing for guidance just to remain alive, the accuteness of ones attention to this delema becomes paramount as does the absolute need for confidence in ones ability to listen. > The words themselves are missing the "magic" that > creates the healing, The words are meant, i believe, to simply point you in the direction of finding the magic where it has always resided.. . within. And what if "work" only meant the labor one does physically? Wouldn't the other precepts be enough to guide one within?. . .after all, staying on this steep path takes much awareness of ones footing, no? >but in a spiritually dead world > you cannot expect that to imbue them with this > quality would be a natural thing and thus they > become mere moral guidelines. You can believe in the spiritual deadness of the world my friend but what does it benifit you? love is. . . > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### From: "Hilary Starke" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <40fe56ae.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-156-25-41.range81-156.btcentralplus.com X-Trace: titan.btinternet.com 1090411873 26663 81.156.25.41 (21 Jul 2004 12:11:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:11:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsfeed.utanet.at!news-hub.siol.net!newsfeed1.eu.ignite.net!newsr1.ipcore.viaginterkom.de!news-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17974 Earned "pr" wrote in message news:40fe56ae.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "Hilary Starke" wrote in message > news:cdlbk0$biq$1@hercules.btinternet.com... > : I am so sorry that I haven't caught up with this yet - I have been reading > : the posts with great interest. I am a bit of a stickler myself for the > : traditional Usui view - and I can't help but notice no-one has mentioned > : "Honour your Father AND Mother" yet. I may have missed this, but I > thought > : I'd mention it. > > I see that as a sort of a combination of "Be grateful" and > "be kind to others". > > And now to be controversial (or is that my usual state?), > with the surfacing of the extent of child abuse within the > family it may be understandable that at least some people > would have extreme difficulty to "honour their father" and in > many cases their mother too. > > Is to be honoured something that they unconditionally > deserve or will it have to be earned? > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### From: "Hilary Starke" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:13:09 +0000 (UTC) Organization: BT Openworld Lines: 114 Message-ID: References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host81-156-25-41.range81-156.btcentralplus.com X-Trace: titan.btinternet.com 1090411989 26795 81.156.25.41 (21 Jul 2004 12:13:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-complaints@lists.btinternet.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:13:09 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.zanker.org!dedekind.zen.co.uk!zen.net.uk!demorgan.zen.co.uk!194.72.9.35.MISMATCH!news-peer1!btnet-feed5!btnet!news.btopenworld.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17976 This is profoundly interesting. The attitude I take to the medical profession - god bless them all - is that sometimes they need stirring up a bit and keeping up to the mark. I have done this this morning. I await the outcome with a fair degree of interest. Love and hugs Hils "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com... > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:04:17 +0200 > "pr" wrote: > > > "Kevin" wrote in message > > news:20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com... > > : On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 > > : "pr" wrote: > > : > > : > Let's take something from what Alex posted, all referring to the same > > : > principle: > > : > > > : > Just for today, I will do my work honestly. > > : > Earn your living honestly. > > : > Work hard today. > > : > Be fair and honest with myself > > : > Devote yourself to your work. > > : > > > : > What work? > > : > > : Your work. > > : Do you not know what *your work* is peter? > > : was that the directive of the precept? > > : Why do you think this precept is present amongs the rest? > > : In your case peter the author of the precepts couldn't have written > > enough, no? > > : i think you enjoy being the devils advocate but in reality have no real > > interest in participating in the precepts. If you enjoyed the benifits of > > the precepts we wouldn't be having this conversation but rather rejoicing > > together.. . instead, you split hairs. > > : If i really felt your interest i might be more enthusiastic about sharing > > with you but at this point i don't feel the need to hash out moot points. > > > > You complain that many people take the precepts as > > moral guidelines only and not as healing tools. When > > I try to draw attention to the fact that all the English > > versions of the line about work really have no spiritual > > content and therefore do not point towards healing in > > themselves you respond to me as if I am an idiot. > > > i think anyone interested in healing *themselves* realizes they are not "in kansas anymore" once they make the committment. This committment is an agreement and sets ones feet firmly on the path. There is no mistake what "work" we are talking about. Only the uncommitted would mistake this "work" for another. > > > > > I bet that if you take the lines above and ask the man > > in the street what they mean then only a tiny minority > > would make a connection to "inner" work and the > > healing of self. > > > > i am certain you are correct in this assumption. . . but as i've said, This "work" becomes very apparent very soon. There is something about working without the safety net of the medical profession that hones ones purposes very quickly and at the same time empowers your commitment to pay attention to your inner world for guidance. > Some people get to this point after they have been abandoned by allopathic medicine for lack of an effective treatment. When one must rely on ones own knowing for guidance just to remain alive, the accuteness of ones attention to this delema becomes paramount as does the absolute need for confidence in ones ability to listen. > > > > The words themselves are missing the "magic" that > > creates the healing, > > > The words are meant, i believe, to simply point you in the direction of finding the magic where it has always resided.. . within. And what if "work" only meant the labor one does physically? Wouldn't the other precepts be enough to guide one within?. . .after all, staying on this steep path takes much awareness of ones footing, no? > > > >but in a spiritually dead world > > you cannot expect that to imbue them with this > > quality would be a natural thing and thus they > > become mere moral guidelines. > > You can believe in the spiritual deadness of the world my friend but what does it benifit you? > love is. . . > > > > > -- > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:22:25 GMT Lines: 77 Message-ID: <40fef81e.885959@news.Individual.NET> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de Dpff4BrwPy/paLYP0HVKSQbZGmA/oCMi5JqgSJW4tFY4sPVBXd X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17992 On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 06:04:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: >"Kevin" wrote in message >news:20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com... >: On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:24:00 +0200 >: "pr" wrote: >: >: > Let's take something from what Alex posted, all referring to the same >: > principle: >: > >: > Just for today, I will do my work honestly. >: > Earn your living honestly. >: > Work hard today. >: > Be fair and honest with myself >: > Devote yourself to your work. >: > >: > What work? >: >: Your work. >: Do you not know what *your work* is peter? >: was that the directive of the precept? >: Why do you think this precept is present amongs the rest? >: In your case peter the author of the precepts couldn't have written >enough, no? >: i think you enjoy being the devils advocate but in reality have no real >interest in participating in the precepts. If you enjoyed the benifits of >the precepts we wouldn't be having this conversation but rather rejoicing >together.. . instead, you split hairs. >: If i really felt your interest i might be more enthusiastic about sharing >with you but at this point i don't feel the need to hash out moot points. > >You complain that many people take the precepts as >moral guidelines only and not as healing tools. When >I try to draw attention to the fact that all the English >versions of the line about work really have no spiritual >content and therefore do not point towards healing in >themselves you respond to me as if I am an idiot. I will *not* rise to the bait of that last remark. I won't! :-) Seriously though, no words have any spiritual content except the content the speaker or hearer or thinker gives them. They are, after all, just words, symbols of some idea or ideas, and always subject to interpretation from one person to another. >I bet that if you take the lines above and ask the man >in the street what they mean then only a tiny minority >would make a connection to "inner" work and the >healing of self. This is true. And if you were to show your post to the man in the street, he would probably say that that PR person is some kind of New Age Nitwit since he's talking about that ray-key stuff with a bunch of other New Age Nitwits as if it were something serious. Does that make it true that PR is a New Age Nitwit? This is why we have Reiki teachers, to point out what is meant by the precepts, to help the student make that connection to inner work and the healing of self. >The words themselves are missing the "magic" that >creates the healing, but in a spiritually dead world >you cannot expect that to imbue them with this >quality would be a natural thing and thus they >become mere moral guidelines. The words themselves do indeed have "the magic"; what is missing in your example is the context of learning them from a Reiki teacher that understands what they mean. What's more, even if you simply try to follow them without having anyone explain them to you, by thinking on them on a daily basis, their true meaning will percolate through sooner or later. A teacher simply facilitates faster learning. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 23:26:12 GMT Lines: 24 Message-ID: <40fefad9.1585059@news.Individual.NET> References: Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de BfCT4XE97N7RzrEP44hWHQQj9QO1hW05kH1TWUxVSnwAvCY2Ir X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17993 On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:05:04 +0000 (UTC), "Hilary Starke" wrote: >I am so sorry that I haven't caught up with this yet - I have been reading >the posts with great interest. I am a bit of a stickler myself for the >traditional Usui view - and I can't help but notice no-one has mentioned >"Honour your Father AND Mother" yet. I may have missed this, but I thought >I'd mention it. While there are plenty of versions of the precepts floating around, one should perhaps keep in mind that we now have them from Usui's memorial stone, and it doesn't specifically state "honor your father and mother". Not that that is a bad thing to do, and I think that would be subsumed under "be grateful" and "be kind to others", which phrases *are* on the memorial stone. >Have a great day now!!!!!!!!! Ditto Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200 Lines: 58 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-97.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 22 Jul 2004 05:27:00 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-97.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!surfnet.nl!teleglobe.net!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-97.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17999 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com... : i think anyone interested in healing *themselves* realizes they are not "in kansas anymore" once they make the committment. This committment is an agreement and sets ones feet firmly on the path. There is no mistake what "work" we are talking about. Only the uncommitted would mistake this "work" for another. : : : : > I bet that if you take the lines above and ask the man : > in the street what they mean then only a tiny minority : > would make a connection to "inner" work and the : > healing of self. : : : : i am certain you are correct in this assumption. . . but as i've said, This "work" becomes very apparent very soon. There is something about working without the safety net of the medical profession that hones ones purposes very quickly and at the same time empowers your commitment to pay attention to your inner world for guidance. : Some people get to this point after they have been abandoned by allopathic medicine for lack of an effective treatment. When one must rely on ones own knowing for guidance just to remain alive, the accuteness of ones attention to this delema becomes paramount as does the absolute need for confidence in ones ability to listen. : : : > The words themselves are missing the "magic" that : > creates the healing, : : : The words are meant, i believe, to simply point you in the direction of finding the magic where it has always resided.. . within. And what if "work" only meant the labor one does physically? Wouldn't the other precepts be enough to guide one within?. . .after all, staying on this steep path takes much awareness of ones footing, no? So what you are saying is that something other than reiki should awaken them to this "work" and then we hit them with the real stuff, which is reiki? The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:48:10 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 76 Message-ID: <20040721224810.58cdcc8a.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du127.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090471791 16506 65.19.43.127 (22 Jul 2004 04:49:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 04:49:51 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.glorb.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18000 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Kevin" wrote in message > news:20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com... > > : i think anyone interested in healing *themselves* realizes they are not > "in kansas anymore" once they make the committment. This committment is an > agreement and sets ones feet firmly on the path. There is no mistake what > "work" we are talking about. Only the uncommitted would mistake this "work" > for another. > : > : > : > : > I bet that if you take the lines above and ask the man > : > in the street what they mean then only a tiny minority > : > would make a connection to "inner" work and the > : > healing of self. > : > : > : > : i am certain you are correct in this assumption. . . but as i've said, > This "work" becomes very apparent very soon. There is something about > working without the safety net of the medical profession that hones ones > purposes very quickly and at the same time empowers your commitment to pay > attention to your inner world for guidance. > : Some people get to this point after they have been abandoned by > allopathic medicine for lack of an effective treatment. When one must rely > on ones own knowing for guidance just to remain alive, the accuteness of > ones attention to this delema becomes paramount as does the absolute need > for confidence in ones ability to listen. > : > : > : > The words themselves are missing the "magic" that > : > creates the healing, > : > : > : The words are meant, i believe, to simply point you in the direction of > finding the magic where it has always resided.. . within. And what if "work" > only meant the labor one does physically? Wouldn't the other precepts be > enough to guide one within?. . .after all, staying on this steep path takes > much awareness of ones footing, no? > > > So what you are saying is that something other than reiki > should awaken them to this "work" and then we hit them > with the real stuff, which is reiki? i'm trying to follow you pr so please continue to be patient. i think the precepts *do* guide one within! i don't understand where else " Be humble, honest in work, compationate to all including self", etc. . . . would take you? Wouldn't these things in themselves when kept in mind keep one self centered? (and i mean this in the literal sense). *The precepts keep one centered on self*. It is this "self centering" that enables one to envoke the healing entity within. It is purely intentional. It is not unlike fasting the body to invoke a cleansing crisis. . . . **the precepts fast the mind, spirit and intention**. After an extended physical fast, the food you used to eat becomes nearly intolerable to your system. Similarly, after a time of watching what thoughts you become audience to. . ..the old ways of thinking become taxing and heavy and soon you begin to realize how unbeneficial these old ways of thinking can be to your well-being. > The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is > just this pointing into the right direction. Any of the precepts when *used*, forces one to reflect on their own state of mind by the very degree of difficuty it takes to maintain the application of the precept at all times. i assume you have tried to maintain them for at least a short stretch of time. . . did it not force you to become aware of your own state of being? love is. ... This applies not > only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:55:41 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de nj5Gl0NZHEbhpelNWnx5dA42loy6J5UzPQu056znmRd9d0fIEb X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18003 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the precepts starts out with: "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine for all diseases...." and finishes up with: "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out loud and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled into one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go with that is within, where the work needs to be done. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:59:10 +0200 Organization: The South African Internet Exchange Lines: 43 Message-ID: References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: wbs-218-243.telkomadsl.co.za X-Trace: ctb-nnrp2.saix.net 1090589420 10457 165.165.218.243 (23 Jul 2004 13:30:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@saix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 2004 13:30:20 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!ctb-nntp1.saix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18028 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: : : >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is : >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not : >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. : : I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the precepts : starts out with: : : "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine for : all diseases...." : : and finishes up with: : : "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out loud : and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." : : That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled into : one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go with that : is within, where the work needs to be done. Agreed, but when do you get the full story? Even it the selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books nothing of what you write above is included. It looks as if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then wonder why we have lost the essence. Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the spiritual content and direction? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:00:46 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 51 Message-ID: <20040723080046.0c9f0978.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du102.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090591073 14724 65.19.43.102 (23 Jul 2004 13:57:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 13:57:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!news-out.octanews.net!petbe.visi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18030 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:59:10 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... > : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: > : > : >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is > : >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not > : >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. > : > : I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the precepts > : starts out with: > : > : "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine for > : all diseases...." > : > : and finishes up with: > : > : "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out loud > : and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." > : > : That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled into > : one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go with that > : is within, where the work needs to be done. > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? Even it the > selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books > nothing of what you write above is included. It looks as > if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like > a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real > stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then > wonder why we have lost the essence. > Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the > spiritual content and direction? the spiritual content is in the application. love is.. . . > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 08:15:47 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 52 Message-ID: <20040723081547.3fda7349.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du102.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090591973 14724 65.19.43.102 (23 Jul 2004 14:12:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 14:12:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!atl-c02.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!news.usenetserver.com!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18031 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:59:10 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... > : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: > : > : >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is > : >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not > : >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. > : > : I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the precepts > : starts out with: > : > : "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine for > : all diseases...." > : > : and finishes up with: > : > : "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out loud > : and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." > : > : That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled into > : one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go with that > : is within, where the work needs to be done. > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? Even it the > selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books > nothing of what you write above is included. It looks as > if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like > a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real > stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then > wonder why we have lost the essence. > Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the > spiritual content and direction? > think about it peter. . . how could the founder have possibly been farsighted enough to counter even all of your own doubts. .. .let alone the rest of the planet? love is. . . > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > ###### Message-ID: <41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 86 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1090598051 65.30.225.94 (Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:54:11 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:54:11 CDT Organization: RoadRunner Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18035 Hi Peter, pr wrote: > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... > : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: > : > : >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is > : >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not > : >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. > : > : I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the > : precepts starts out with: > : > : "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine > : for all diseases...." > : > : and finishes up with: > : > : "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out > : loud and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." > : > : That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled > : into one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go > : with that is within, where the work needs to be done. > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? That is a good question. If you goto http://www.google.com/ & do a search on reiki+precepts & you will be given links to 2,350 sites that offer the precepts of the 2,780,000 sites that offer information on Reiki. It sure doesn't look like the precepts are important to the vast majority of people that have Reiki web sites. > Even it the > selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books > nothing of what you write above is included. I saved that post by "margaret gamez" because it was the first time I had heard of the precepts. A google search lead me to the 2,350 sites that many of do, include the information given by Garry above. > It looks as > if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like > a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real > stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then > wonder why we have lost the essence. Or they change them to fit the personal belief system of the person presenting them. > Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the > spiritual content and direction? IMO, it is a lack of real information on what Usui actually taught. Anyone is able to call a system Reiki & present it anyway they want. > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- :) Sending Good Thoughts, GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. No endorsement is implied or intended. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:56:36 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 98 Message-ID: <20040723105636.0b7e951f.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> <41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du206.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090601688 19059 65.19.43.206 (23 Jul 2004 16:54:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:54:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!c01.usenetserver.com!c03.atl99!news.usenetserver.com!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18036 On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:11 GMT Alex Barna wrote: > Hi Peter, > > pr wrote: > > > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > > news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... > > : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > : > > : >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is > > : >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not > > : >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. > > : > > : I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the > > : precepts starts out with: > > : > > : "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine > > : for all diseases...." > > : > > : and finishes up with: > > : > > : "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out > > : loud and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." > > : > > : That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled > > : into one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go > > : with that is within, where the work needs to be done. > > > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? > > That is a good question. If you goto http://www.google.com/ > & do a search on reiki+precepts & you will be given links to 2,350 sites that > offer the precepts of the 2,780,000 sites that offer information on Reiki. It > sure doesn't look like the precepts are important to the vast majority of people > that have Reiki web sites. > hi alex, what you say is true.. . .but it doesn't make it the most benificial thing to do. in my opinion, people especially in western cultures don't want to do the down and dirty part of the philosophy.. . the real work involved in healing self, which to me is taking a hard look within and making the appropriate changes. Sure doesn't look like peace is important to the vast majority of people in the U.S. either but is that a good reason to not be peacefull yourself? > > Even it the > > selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books > > nothing of what you write above is included. > > I saved that post by "margaret gamez" because it was the first time I had heard > of the precepts. A google search lead me to the 2,350 sites that many of do, > include the information given by Garry above. > > > It looks as > > if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like > > a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real > > stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then > > wonder why we have lost the essence. > > Or they change them to fit the personal belief system of the person presenting > them. > > > Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the > > spiritual content and direction? > > IMO, it is a lack of real information on what Usui actually taught. Anyone is > able to call a system Reiki & present it anyway they want. People are also able to (because of their lack of understanding, laziness, doubt, skepticism, etc) not follow the incredibly simple and direct information contained within the precepts. There are myriads of reasons *not* to do a thing that seem to counter the one reason that would benifit you. love is. . . > > -- > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > -- > :) > > Sending Good Thoughts, > > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > No endorsement is implied or intended. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.0.126 From: "Rich" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> <41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Precepts Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 17:06:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1090602380 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:06:20 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 11:06:20 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18037 Hi Alex, Having gone around the circuit with this topic, and not about to do it again, I would like to just put in a penny's worth of another perspective. And for all you die-hard fundamentalists, this is not my belief! Just another thought! We need to distinguish between 'doing the precepts' as a kind of spiritual exercise for those so inclined, and following what the precepts allude to because it is simply what works in our lives and has no spiritual implications at all. For example....types of anger may upset the body's immune system, so I say alert to them so that I live a healthy life. Working together honestly (my words) is just the best way to be co-operative and therefore it benefits everyone and isn't spiritual or non-spiritual. It's just appropriate. Assisting my fellow worker in planting the corn has no spiritual implications unless we make them up. It just means we have a better chance of survival than if we didn't co-operate. So, it might be interesting to note where each person is coming from in his remarks. I would expect a different perspective from the religious, spiritual, ethnic, democratic, etc. folks on the group. This would indicate that what is being defended is not Usui's precepts but one's fundamental beliefs about everything! And Usui spoke what was appropriate for him, at that time in his life. Cheers Rich "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com... > Hi Peter, > > pr wrote: > > ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.0.126 Message-ID: <4101B7FB.90B3CEBE@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> <41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:17:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1090631840 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:17:20 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2004 19:17:20 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18039 Ooops! I didn't mean for my comments to swipe at anything you said, Alex. Was just making a general observation to the whole group. Rich Rich wrote: > > Hi Alex, > Having gone around the circuit with this topic, and not about to do it > again, ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za><20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com><40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za><40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> <20040723081547.3fda7349.arthealer@newmexico.com> Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 06:57:51 +0200 Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-162.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4101f4db.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Jul 2004 07:34:19 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-162.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-162.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18045 "Kevin" wrote in message news:20040723081547.3fda7349.arthealer@newmexico.com... : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:59:10 +0200 : "pr" wrote: : : > : > "Garry Williams" wrote in message : > news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... : > : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: : > : : > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? Even it the : > selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books : > nothing of what you write above is included. It looks as : > if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like : > a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real : > stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then : > wonder why we have lost the essence. : > Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the : > spiritual content and direction? : > : : think about it peter. . . how could the founder have possibly been farsighted enough to counter even all of your own doubts. .. .let alone the rest of the planet? How does the founder make it into this discussion? Who sees NOW? Who lists and interprets the precepts now? It has little to do with Usui or how farsighted he was but everything to do with us as practitioners. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" . ###### Message-ID: <4102928D.5AF34BC0@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> <41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com> <20040723105636.0b7e951f.arthealer@newmexico.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 59 Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:47:09 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1090687683 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:48:03 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:48:03 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217.77.102!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18065 Kevin wrote: > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:11 GMT > Alex Barna wrote: > > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? > > > > That is a good question. If you goto http://www.google.com/ > > & do a search on reiki+precepts & you will be given links to > > 2,350 sites that offer the precepts of the 2,780,000 sites > > that offer information on Reiki. It sure doesn't look like > > the precepts are important to the vast majority of people > > that have Reiki web sites. > > hi alex, > what you say is true.. . .but it doesn't make it the most benificial thing to do. What? A google search isn't beneficial to someone that doesn't have access to a teacher for what ever reason? Don't tell google that. :) > in my opinion, people especially in western cultures don't want to do the down and dirty part of the philosophy.. . the real work involved in healing self, which to me is taking a hard look within and making the appropriate changes. True, just walk into most libraries & look in the Self help section. There are thousands of books, but most people keep looking for the easy was. > Sure doesn't look like peace is important to the vast majority of people in the U.S. either but is that a good reason to not be peacefull yourself? That is because the opinion of the "vast majority" isn't publicized, only the opinion of the popular minority gets publicized. > :) > > > > IMO, it is a lack of real information on what Usui actually taught. Anyone is > > able to call a system Reiki & present it anyway they want. > > People are also able to (because of their lack of understanding, laziness, doubt, skepticism, etc) not follow the incredibly simple and direct information contained within the precepts. There are myriads of reasons *not* to do a thing that seem to counter the one reason that would benifit you. > love is. . . > Agreed. GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:22:11 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 33 Message-ID: <20040724112211.52719b9a.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> <41013612.FEE95DE1@mn.rr.com> <20040723105636.0b7e951f.arthealer@newmexico.com> <4102928D.5AF34BC0@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du18.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090689569 27074 65.19.43.18 (24 Jul 2004 17:19:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:19:29 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!usenet.INS.cwru.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18068 On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:47:09 -0500 Alex Barna wrote: > > > Kevin wrote: > > > > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 15:54:11 GMT > > Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? > > > > > > That is a good question. If you goto http://www.google.com/ > > > & do a search on reiki+precepts & you will be given links to > > > 2,350 sites that offer the precepts of the 2,780,000 sites > > > that offer information on Reiki. It sure doesn't look like > > > the precepts are important to the vast majority of people > > > that have Reiki web sites. > > > > hi alex, > > what you say is true.. . .but it doesn't make it the most benificial thing to do. > > What? A google search isn't beneficial to someone that doesn't have access to a > teacher for what ever reason? Don't tell google that. :) > alex, my response,"it doesn't look like the most benificial thing to do " was to this that you wrote, . . . "It sure doesn't look like > > > the precepts are important to the vast majority of people > > > that have Reiki web sites. love is. . ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Precepts Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:43:03 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 52 Message-ID: <20040724114303.1487b1df.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <20040719053519.2d1bebed.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fd09e0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040720065621.2ece993b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40fdebc6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <20040721060336.0c77956b.arthealer@newmexico.com> <40ff3404.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du108.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1090690817 27444 65.19.43.108 (24 Jul 2004 17:40:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:40:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:18070 On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:59:10 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:40ff8d7b.697106@news.Individual.NET... > : On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:24:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: > : > : >The point I make is that what is lacking in the precept is > : >just this pointing into the right direction. This applies not > : >only the work part, but the other 4 precepts as well. > : > : I'm not sure I follow you there, Peter. The full quote of the precepts > : starts out with: > : > : "The secret method of inviting happiness, the spiritual medicine for > : all diseases...." > : > : and finishes up with: > : > : "Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho and repeat these words out loud > : and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul." > : > : That looks pretty much to me like a how-to and a why all rolled into > : one. If practiced as stated, the only direction you can go with that > : is within, where the work needs to be done. > > Agreed, but when do you get the full story? Even it the > selection of Alex's quoted principles from various books > nothing of what you write above is included. It looks as > if it is NOT seen as part of the principles but more like > a wrapper that can be discarded after we have the real > stuff. We reduce them to the bare minimum and then > wonder why we have lost the essence. > Is this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the > spiritual content and direction? You said in another post that it had nothing to do with the founder. . .only the interpretation of the precepts by practicioners. If this is true for you, then what does it matter to you if this an oversight or is it a deliberate exclusion of the spiritual content and direction? You are aware of what spiritual content *you* need to make the precepts work for you. . .this is enough. i attempted to converse with you about this in another post. Now, you are feeling as though your integrity is in question and it never was. i attempt to discuss things with you for exactly the opposite reason, *your opinion is respected*. Intent, Intent, Intent. . . love is. . .. > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > >