From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Transitions Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:43:17 +0200 Lines: 74 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-97.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 4 Jul 2004 12:13:14 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-97.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-97.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17363 The Bardot Todol, AKA The Great Book of Natural Liberation Through Understanding the In-Between, AKA The Tibetan Book of the Dead speaks of the the numerous transition stages a human being encounters, focusing on the bardo in-between, i.e. between physical death and the next rebirth. Broadly speaking it follows this course: The first stage is where we encounter the pure clear white light of reality. Most people are overwhelmed by the intensity of the unfamiliar experience, withdraw from it, and faint. At the next stage, we encounter the six mild deities, with their consorts, each one with their own color light and characteristics. They are trying to awaken us to the Buddha Body of Truth. Alas, we remain frightened by the "clear, piercing, brilliant, frightening, supreme wisdom clear light". If the mild deities are not able to awaken us, we will encounter the six fierce deities, in the hope that where the mild deities failed, the fierce ones might succeed. We may still fail to recognise the true nature of the deities and the book says that "you will cling to superficial reality, feel fear and hate, and flee these deities. You will go down again in excessive misery!" You will perceive the deities as Lords of Death, you will hate them, you will panic, you will faint. "Your own visions having become devils, you will wander in the life cycle!" While the book focuses on the in-between bardo, there are a total of four the bardo of birth the bardo of life the bardo of death the bardo in-between To put it into simplistic terms, a bardo is a stage where there is a heightened possibility of liberation from the cycle of birth and death. I present the above as a reminder that no matter what somebody writes, no matter how they write it, no matter whether you find their posts cute and lovable, or abrupt and abrasive, they may just contribute a little towards our awakening, but this can only happen if we do not hate them, and do not faint, or whatever the preferred method of withdrawal is. And when we find that something is upsetting us let us be aware that "... these four Door Yoginis will emerge from within your brain and appear before you!" "If you do not recognize your own visions, though you become expert in all scriptures of sutra and Tantra, though you practice the Dharma for an eon, you will not become a Buddha! If you recognise your own visions, with one key, one word, you will become a Buddha!" I think there is more than enough to ponder for a few days, and I do not consider this to be off-topic. [quoted texts from Robert A.F. Thurman's translation of "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"] -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Transitions Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 11:35:48 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: <40e7ea17.3176112@news.Individual.NET> References: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de TM0gYh3AB1ANh/EWYG4zQwYEI8TFFypSSisa9jbV8ojJiAlKjd X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17368 On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:43:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I think there is more than enough to ponder for a few >days, and I do not consider this to be off-topic. Thanks for the interesting post, Peter! BTW, I don't think it's off-topic, either. There will be those that disagree with me, but the point of Reiki is enlightenment, and is the reason for practicing the Reiki Precepts. So anything that helps one in that respect is most definitely on-topic. I now retire to await the deluge of disapproval. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Transitions Organization: http://www.ascesis.net Reply-To: steven@ascesis.net Message-ID: References: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 133 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.116.151.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr25.news.prodigy.com 1088964437 ST000 67.116.151.230 (Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:07:17 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 14:07:17 EDT X-UserInfo1: Q[OQRWKEPZRAR_H]]RKB_UDAZZ\DPCPDLXUNNHLHEQR@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 18:07:17 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr25.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!e700f050!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17396 Rather than present this as an answer to justify your posts and your implied enlightenment, why not present it as a group discussion? Why not use your skills to lead a discussion that will allow readers/participants to experience realizations as the discussion occurs rather than just providing an answer when you feel it is appropriate? Is not there a cliché about leading a horse to water which could apply to many of your posts? Will presenting the answers you have with a "?" awaken buddhahood in the reader? Can one suppose the founders/moderators of Grassroots Reiki had similar experiences with other group as have you? I find your posts rude because you have an answer and seem to expect that by posting it with a question mark will awaken buddhaood in the reader (particularly me). "If you see the Buddha on the Road, Kill Him." Of course you get the sense I don't like you - after all I've taken aim and placed you in my sights.... };-) I find your posts insulting because in spite of your advanced noetic capacity and all of your valuable realizations, you have not been able to communicate that enlightenment in a way that is easily accepted by others. "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Personally, I haven't even seen you attempt to take my reins - rather you have brought the ("your") bucket of water directly to my mouth (just because you like the way your water quenches your thirst doesn't mean I will). Reading your excerpt and opinion below, which is undoubtedly inspired by the "conversation can be dangerous" thread, I don't know if you are presenting it to give readers something to think about or simply to not listen to others and be smug about your own enlightenment. I would like to make a suggestion that may or may not be realistic (or even desired here on AHR). My cumulative opinion of your actions based on your posts is that you have essentially been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. The two can only fit when both are sized properly... so my suggestion is for you to select a book and start a thread discussing that book. Your overall interest seems to be the psychology of Buddhism, and I'm certainly open to reading about that. If you could propose a title that is easy to obtain (through a library or a resource such as Amazon.com), then give me (and others who are willing to participate) a week to 10 days to obtain the title. Once (we?) have the book, begin leading a discussion one section at a time. I would not be interested in reading a book and simply posting a quote or two supporting my opinion and leaving it as "the answer," but rather explore it in order from beginning to end and see what I discover before, during and after. What can I expect to realize/learn from the book by reading the preface and foreword? Is there a phrase or concept in the first chapter that is relevant to my life now? What can I realize from the second chapter? and so on. I understand that you are trying to be helpful in your posts, but I do not see them as effective as you are capable of making them. I think the best way I could summarize my opinion of your posts is as follows: "You know that we are going to die someday, why eat?" I think that your leading a discussion with the intent of allowing the participant(s) to "awaken" and find his/her own answers would be more beneficial than the way you have been utilizing your skills thus far. Starting your own group isn't a bad idea either. On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:43:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: >The Bardot Todol, AKA >The Great Book of Natural Liberation Through Understanding the In-Between, >AKA >The Tibetan Book of the Dead > >speaks of the the numerous transition stages a human being >encounters, focusing on the bardo in-between, i.e. between >physical death and the next rebirth. Broadly speaking it >follows this course: > >The first stage is where we encounter the pure clear white >light of reality. Most people are overwhelmed by the intensity >of the unfamiliar experience, withdraw from it, and faint. > >At the next stage, we encounter the six mild deities, with their >consorts, each one with their own color light and characteristics. >They are trying to awaken us to the Buddha Body of Truth. >Alas, we remain frightened by the "clear, piercing, brilliant, >frightening, supreme wisdom clear light". > >If the mild deities are not able to awaken us, we will >encounter the six fierce deities, in the hope that where >the mild deities failed, the fierce ones might succeed. > >We may still fail to recognise the true nature of the deities >and the book says that "you will cling to superficial reality, >feel fear and hate, and flee these deities. You will go down >again in excessive misery!" You will perceive the deities as >Lords of Death, you will hate them, you will panic, you will >faint. "Your own visions having become devils, you will >wander in the life cycle!" > >While the book focuses on the in-between bardo, there >are a total of four >the bardo of birth >the bardo of life >the bardo of death >the bardo in-between > >To put it into simplistic terms, a bardo is a stage where >there is a heightened possibility of liberation from the >cycle of birth and death. > >I present the above as a reminder that no matter what >somebody writes, no matter how they write it, no >matter whether you find their posts cute and lovable, >or abrupt and abrasive, they may just contribute a little >towards our awakening, but this can only happen if we >do not hate them, and do not faint, or whatever the >preferred method of withdrawal is. >And when we find that something is upsetting us let >us be aware that "... these four Door Yoginis will emerge >from within your brain and appear before you!" > >"If you do not recognize your own visions, though you >become expert in all scriptures of sutra and Tantra, >though you practice the Dharma for an eon, you will >not become a Buddha! If you recognise your own >visions, with one key, one word, you will become a >Buddha!" > >I think there is more than enough to ponder for a few >days, and I do not consider this to be off-topic. > >[quoted texts from Robert A.F. Thurman's translation >of "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"] Steven Buck, CMT San Francisco, CA ###### Message-ID: <40E8AD0F.5D85FEB4@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Transitions References: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 92 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 01:15:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1088990130 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:15:30 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 20:15:30 CDT Organization: RoadRunner Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17415 Hi Peter, Interesting, but the ideas presented don't fit into my belief system developed through examining my personal experiences. GramPaHugs, Alex, pr wrote: > > The Bardot Todol, AKA > The Great Book of Natural Liberation Through Understanding the In-Between, > AKA > The Tibetan Book of the Dead > > speaks of the the numerous transition stages a human being > encounters, focusing on the bardo in-between, i.e. between > physical death and the next rebirth. Broadly speaking it > follows this course: > > The first stage is where we encounter the pure clear white > light of reality. Most people are overwhelmed by the intensity > of the unfamiliar experience, withdraw from it, and faint. > > At the next stage, we encounter the six mild deities, with their > consorts, each one with their own color light and characteristics. > They are trying to awaken us to the Buddha Body of Truth. > Alas, we remain frightened by the "clear, piercing, brilliant, > frightening, supreme wisdom clear light". > > If the mild deities are not able to awaken us, we will > encounter the six fierce deities, in the hope that where > the mild deities failed, the fierce ones might succeed. > > We may still fail to recognise the true nature of the deities > and the book says that "you will cling to superficial reality, > feel fear and hate, and flee these deities. You will go down > again in excessive misery!" You will perceive the deities as > Lords of Death, you will hate them, you will panic, you will > faint. "Your own visions having become devils, you will > wander in the life cycle!" > > While the book focuses on the in-between bardo, there > are a total of four > the bardo of birth > the bardo of life > the bardo of death > the bardo in-between > > To put it into simplistic terms, a bardo is a stage where > there is a heightened possibility of liberation from the > cycle of birth and death. > > I present the above as a reminder that no matter what > somebody writes, no matter how they write it, no > matter whether you find their posts cute and lovable, > or abrupt and abrasive, they may just contribute a little > towards our awakening, but this can only happen if we > do not hate them, and do not faint, or whatever the > preferred method of withdrawal is. > And when we find that something is upsetting us let > us be aware that "... these four Door Yoginis will emerge > from within your brain and appear before you!" > > "If you do not recognize your own visions, though you > become expert in all scriptures of sutra and Tantra, > though you practice the Dharma for an eon, you will > not become a Buddha! If you recognise your own > visions, with one key, one word, you will become a > Buddha!" > > I think there is more than enough to ponder for a few > days, and I do not consider this to be off-topic. > > [quoted texts from Robert A.F. Thurman's translation > of "The Tibetan Book of the Dead"] > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40E98D75.11808D9D@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Transitions References: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:20:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1089048040 24.71.223.147 (Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:20:40 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 11:20:40 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17442 Hi Peter, Some of the writings in the TBD are interesting in that there seems to be some kind of overlap when I explore some of my Russian/Ukrainian ancestors and their beliefs. Although I am not a student of that history, it is kind of neat to think that it might have been a part of my cultural background. Who knows what might be in these genes? Ha! Cheers Rich pr wrote: > > The Bardot Todol, AKA > The Great Book of Natural Liberation Through Understanding the In-Between, > AKA > The Tibetan Book of the Dead > > speaks of the the numerous transition stages a human being > encounters, focusing on the bardo in-between, i.e. between > physical death and the next rebirth. ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Transitions Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:14:37 +0200 Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-27-202.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40ebcd53.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 7 Jul 2004 12:15:47 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-27-202.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-27-202.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17518 "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote in message news:ldege0do9v4l6v2pgia4j569o4284oe3gb@4ax.com... : I find your posts rude because you have an answer and seem to expect : that by posting it with a question mark will awaken buddhaood in the : reader (particularly me). Thank you. I am not aware of having singled you out except for a response to one of your recent posts. : I find your posts insulting because in spite of your advanced noetic : capacity and all of your valuable realizations, you have not been able : to communicate that enlightenment in a way that is easily accepted by : others. Thank you. : Reading your excerpt and opinion below, which is : undoubtedly inspired by the "conversation can be dangerous" thread, I : don't know if you are presenting it to give readers something to think : about or simply to not listen to others and be smug about your own : enlightenment. You are right that it is a sort of follow on to the thread you refer to. What was foremost in my mind were the posters of the past who had the "Reiki Prick" award bestowed upon them, something I now consider to be a badge of honor. There were a few others who did not last long enough to qualify but who apparently found the environment in AHR too hostile to their ideas. I always expressed regret at them leaving and I think that anyone leaving is a loss for the group. I also think that it contains some good psychological insights on how we make up things, our own visions arising, and then take them as being a true image of reality. : Starting your own group isn't a bad idea either. Once I have access to broadband and bit more time I will give this some serious considerations. Thank you for giving some honest feedback. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Kevin Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Transitions Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 21:46:31 -0600 Organization: NMIX Reader Lines: 61 Message-ID: <20040711214631.3f5bfa82.arthealer@newmexico.com> References: <40e7d83a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40ebcd53.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: albcmcs1-du227.cybermesa.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader2.nmix.net 1089604072 18164 65.19.43.227 (12 Jul 2004 03:47:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nmix.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 03:47:52 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.8.8 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!usenet.INS.cwru.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!feeder.nmix.net!reader2.nmix.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17695 On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 12:14:37 +0200 "pr" wrote: > > "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote in message > news:ldege0do9v4l6v2pgia4j569o4284oe3gb@4ax.com... > > : I find your posts rude because you have an answer and seem to expect > : that by posting it with a question mark will awaken buddhaood in the > : reader (particularly me). > > Thank you. I am not aware of having singled you out except > for a response to one of your recent posts. > > : I find your posts insulting because in spite of your advanced noetic > : capacity and all of your valuable realizations, you have not been able > : to communicate that enlightenment in a way that is easily accepted by > : others. > > Thank you. > > : Reading your excerpt and opinion below, which is > : undoubtedly inspired by the "conversation can be dangerous" thread, I > : don't know if you are presenting it to give readers something to think > : about or simply to not listen to others and be smug about your own > : enlightenment. > > You are right that it is a sort of follow on to the thread you refer to. > What was foremost in my mind were the posters of the past who > had the "Reiki Prick" award bestowed upon them, something I > now consider to be a badge of honor. There were a few others who > did not last long enough to qualify but who apparently found the > environment in AHR too hostile to their ideas. > I always expressed regret at them leaving and I think that anyone > leaving is a loss for the group. > I also think that it contains some good psychological insights > on how we make up things, our own visions arising, and then > take them as being a true image of reality. it is for them and anyone else peter but then we've probably had this conversation. what reality do you speak of? love is. . . > : Starting your own group isn't a bad idea either. > > Once I have access to broadband and bit more time I will > give this some serious considerations. > > Thank you for giving some honest feedback. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > >