From: kdc Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s03 1088049953 67.169.57.204 (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:05:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:05:53 GMT Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:05:53 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.glorb.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s03.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:16994 On 23 Jun 2004 13:58:15 -0700, amico3@hotmail.com (none) wrote: >I highly urge anyone who considers a Reiki attunement OR TREATMENT to >give it a deep second thought before initiating it. Brother - to understand what Reiki is, then you understand it can have no such effect as you describe. This is not to say you aren't suffering, as clearly you are. I would encourage you to listen to what Garry posted - the quiet between and betwixt - there is solace for you. --- spamtrap: remove the shadow to send an e-mail. http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200 Lines: 36 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-39.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Jun 2004 10:32:59 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-39.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-39.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:16997 "kdc" wrote in message news:nkkkd0hvqiiiftp8u4eh6r9hmu0pgstqdq@4ax.com... : On 23 Jun 2004 13:58:15 -0700, amico3@hotmail.com (none) wrote: : : >I highly urge anyone who considers a Reiki attunement OR TREATMENT to : >give it a deep second thought before initiating it. : : Brother - to understand what Reiki is, then you understand it can have : no such effect as you describe. I disagree with you because when you open yourself up to other dimensions you do it for more than one kind of energy. You cannot restrict yourself and say "I want reiki only". You may get reiki, but with it possibly a whole lot more. IOW, the reiki attunement and reiki energy may not be the cause of the problem in a direct manner but may leave the door open for other things to appear. That is why all-in-one, instant attunements, without any knowledge or grounding in the subject of reiki are problematic, if not dangerous, for some people. Global attunements, as we had in recent days days, available to all and sundry may well be irresponsible. And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy land .............. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:00:42 GMT Lines: 47 Message-ID: <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de h67YYiKc9fRjMnxxQYkVLw6gVQhvQ4P8LlTp2NZ6Zg6wiUq8v3 X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:16998 On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"kdc" wrote in message >news:nkkkd0hvqiiiftp8u4eh6r9hmu0pgstqdq@4ax.com... >: On 23 Jun 2004 13:58:15 -0700, amico3@hotmail.com (none) wrote: >: >: >I highly urge anyone who considers a Reiki attunement OR TREATMENT to >: >give it a deep second thought before initiating it. >: >: Brother - to understand what Reiki is, then you understand it can have >: no such effect as you describe. > >I disagree with you because when you open yourself >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one >kind of energy. You cannot restrict yourself and say >"I want reiki only". You may get reiki, but with it >possibly a whole lot more. IOW, the reiki attunement >and reiki energy may not be the cause of the >problem in a direct manner but may leave the door >open for other things to appear. >That is why all-in-one, instant attunements, without >any knowledge or grounding in the subject of reiki >are problematic, if not dangerous, for some people. >Global attunements, as we had in recent days days, >available to all and sundry may well be irresponsible. > >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy >land .............. My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this "whole lot more" to which you refer? What, exactly, is one supposed to be protecting oneself from? Is there such a thing as "evil" vs "good", or are those simply human value judgements, heavily dependent on the eye of the beholder? Your remarks are rooted in fear, not instinctual fear, but good old fashioned *mentally* constructed fear--how can subscribing to mentally created fear have anything to do with Reiki? What about your recent post that said that Reiki can do no harm by definition? Is not saying "that is a bad thing, I am good" just another mechanism for strengthening the ego, for maintaining the illusion of a separate self? Namaste, Garry ###### From: Rexx Magnus Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: 24 Jun 2004 10:13:16 GMT Organization: Me?? Organised? Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de wlysD5ClS3eqvKFkhf7MrgTAJUutaf74UpNBbuEvJ847q8O40= User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-Face: 6G^K=?aJV"H\A\F"+8dgL&^\I2\FPezP^{60c5x)5+[v9s{*?oy3LFzjbd7s*20=AO{L]E2wg~d)}{K'LCCX*k&4&w!pdf|b2DSF12l}"OD<{"[f_UW|uJJ.(I:`^rdM~W: My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this "whole lot > more" to which you refer? What, exactly, is one supposed to be > protecting oneself from? Is there such a thing as "evil" vs "good", or > are those simply human value judgements, heavily dependent on the eye > of the beholder? Your remarks are rooted in fear, not instinctual > fear, but good old fashioned *mentally* constructed fear--how can > subscribing to mentally created fear have anything to do with Reiki? > What about your recent post that said that Reiki can do no harm by > definition? Is not saying "that is a bad thing, I am good" just > another mechanism for strengthening the ego, for maintaining the > illusion of a separate self? I don't think he's entirely wrong though, too much energy can be as destructive as too little. A buildup of energy (especially if you've had no outlet for it before) once you've tuned into it can have undesirable side- effects. Just like electricity, all energy is effectively neutral (it has no ethical motivation), it's just the way in which it is applied that makes something seem good or bad. I'd used it in the past (when I was much younger and far less mature) to break someone's arm, whilst the same energy can help mend bones. There are plenty of people in the world with an airy-fairy attitude towards various different things, that could do with a hefty kick in the pants and a good dose of reality not to mention healthy scepticism. Those people are usually the ones that express horror when lions kill a zebra for food. -- http://www.rexx.co.uk To email me, visit the site. ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:11:31 +0200 Lines: 93 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-115.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40db19b3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Jun 2004 20:13:07 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-115.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-115.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17011 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET... : On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" wrote: : : > : >"kdc" wrote in message : >news:nkkkd0hvqiiiftp8u4eh6r9hmu0pgstqdq@4ax.com... : >: On 23 Jun 2004 13:58:15 -0700, amico3@hotmail.com (none) wrote: : >: : >: >I highly urge anyone who considers a Reiki attunement OR TREATMENT to : >: >give it a deep second thought before initiating it. : >: : >: Brother - to understand what Reiki is, then you understand it can have : >: no such effect as you describe. : > : >I disagree with you because when you open yourself : >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one : >kind of energy. You cannot restrict yourself and say : >"I want reiki only". You may get reiki, but with it : >possibly a whole lot more. IOW, the reiki attunement : >and reiki energy may not be the cause of the : >problem in a direct manner but may leave the door : >open for other things to appear. : >That is why all-in-one, instant attunements, without : >any knowledge or grounding in the subject of reiki : >are problematic, if not dangerous, for some people. : >Global attunements, as we had in recent days days, : >available to all and sundry may well be irresponsible. : > : >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the : >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy : >land .............. : : My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this "whole lot : more" to which you refer? What, exactly, is one supposed to be : protecting oneself from? Is there such a thing as "evil" vs "good", or : are those simply human value judgements, heavily dependent on the eye : of the beholder? When you are in the grip of demon possession then you will have very bad eyesight if you call that "good". And yes, this is a simple human value judgement which I am quite happy to make. Although I have no personal experience with such entities there is enough anectodal evidence, including from the highly respected Dr Scott Peck, that such things are real. What is one supposed to be protecting onseself from? Simply, the unconscious areas of your own mind which may surface their content under favourable conditions and create havoc. Favourable conditions can be created in some by such things as attunements or other rituals. The "whole lot more" are the dimensions in our mind and out in the universe we are not even aware of that they exist. Many of the reiki people cannot even understand that human beings have a psychological dimension let alone other, even more mysterious ones. : Your remarks are rooted in fear, not instinctual : fear, but good old fashioned *mentally* constructed fear--how can : subscribing to mentally created fear have anything to do with Reiki? Are you also one of the reiki-mentalists for whom everything just happens in the mind? As a Tai Chi practitioner I would assume that reiki practise encompasses everything, body, mind, spirit and beyond, including past, present and future. : What about your recent post that said that Reiki can do no harm by : definition? I stated in one of my posts that it is not reiki per se that causes harm but the state of mind of the person that goes through the process. : Is not saying "that is a bad thing, I am good" just : another mechanism for strengthening the ego, for maintaining the : illusion of a separate self? I am not quite sure what you mean by this, but what I am saying is that there is whole lot more "out there" and "in here" than we can ever dream of, and SOME people are affected by it and SOME people may become more vulnerable to it when undergoing or participating in unfamiliar practices. Many traditional churches caution against the occult for the same reasons. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:10:23 GMT Lines: 128 Message-ID: <40db1fb9.1511199@news.Individual.NET> References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40db19b3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de gzFfMmBb8TObzRh/I4+lxwaFdea0o5XxkyvwXCRijT1Yf4vjhh X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17015 On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:11:31 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET... >: On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" wrote: >: >: > >: >"kdc" wrote in message >: >news:nkkkd0hvqiiiftp8u4eh6r9hmu0pgstqdq@4ax.com... >: >: On 23 Jun 2004 13:58:15 -0700, amico3@hotmail.com (none) wrote: >: >: >: >: >I highly urge anyone who considers a Reiki attunement OR TREATMENT to >: >: >give it a deep second thought before initiating it. >: >: >: >: Brother - to understand what Reiki is, then you understand it can have >: >: no such effect as you describe. >: > >: >I disagree with you because when you open yourself >: >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one >: >kind of energy. You cannot restrict yourself and say >: >"I want reiki only". You may get reiki, but with it >: >possibly a whole lot more. IOW, the reiki attunement >: >and reiki energy may not be the cause of the >: >problem in a direct manner but may leave the door >: >open for other things to appear. >: >That is why all-in-one, instant attunements, without >: >any knowledge or grounding in the subject of reiki >: >are problematic, if not dangerous, for some people. >: >Global attunements, as we had in recent days days, >: >available to all and sundry may well be irresponsible. >: > >: >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the >: >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy >: >land .............. >: >: My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this "whole lot >: more" to which you refer? What, exactly, is one supposed to be >: protecting oneself from? Is there such a thing as "evil" vs "good", or >: are those simply human value judgements, heavily dependent on the eye >: of the beholder? > >When you are in the grip of demon possession then you will >have very bad eyesight if you call that "good". And yes, this How do you know? Maybe I will enjoy it? Perhaps the experience will profit my spirit mightily? Have you walked in my shoes lately? If not, how do you know that what I call "good" isn't good, and what I call "bad" isn't bad? If my values aren't your values, does that make me crazy, and you, therefore superior? Why the need to judge another? >is a simple human value judgement which I am quite happy to >make. Although I have no personal experience with such >entities there is enough anectodal evidence, including from >the highly respected Dr Scott Peck, that such things are >real. What is meant by real? I mean, really? >What is one supposed to be protecting onseself from? >Simply, the unconscious areas of your own mind which may >surface their content under favourable conditions and create >havoc. Favourable conditions can be created in some by such >things as attunements or other rituals. The "whole lot more" >are the dimensions in our mind and out in the universe we are >not even aware of that they exist. >Many of the reiki people cannot even understand that human >beings have a psychological dimension let alone other, even >more mysterious ones. You're onto something here, but you seem to have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. Is the mind the answer, or the problem? >: Your remarks are rooted in fear, not instinctual >: fear, but good old fashioned *mentally* constructed fear--how can >: subscribing to mentally created fear have anything to do with Reiki? > >Are you also one of the reiki-mentalists for whom everything just >happens in the mind? As a Tai Chi practitioner I would assume >that reiki practise encompasses everything, body, mind, spirit >and beyond, including past, present and future. As you may or may not know, t'ai chi ch'uan (taijiquan) is very much a Taoist (Daoist) art. Just another way of sneaking up on The Truth (so to speak), just as Buddhism does. Which is why I assume that as a Buddhism practitioner (did I disremember that? ISTR that you are a Buddhist of some persuasion or other. If I recalled incorrectly, my apologies.), Reiki practice encompasses everything, body, mind, spirit and beyond, including past, present and future. Such as they are. >: What about your recent post that said that Reiki can do no harm by >: definition? > >I stated in one of my posts that it is not reiki per se that causes >harm but the state of mind of the person that goes through the >process. "State of mind?" There's that "mind" thing showing up again. Coincidence? You're not into that Reiki-mentalist stuff, are you? >: Is not saying "that is a bad thing, I am good" just >: another mechanism for strengthening the ego, for maintaining the >: illusion of a separate self? > >I am not quite sure what you mean by this, but what I am >saying is that there is whole lot more "out there" and "in here" >than we can ever dream of, and SOME people are affected by >it and SOME people may become more vulnerable to it when >undergoing or participating in unfamiliar practices. Many traditional Yes, yes, but who are you? I mean really? Not your name, not your profession, not your religious affiliations, but who are you? >churches caution against the occult for the same reasons. It has been my experience that churches caution against the occult (or other religious sects) mostly to keep people and their money in their parish and not someone else's. Fear of the other, fear of losing money, fear of losing status, fear of what is not understood, it's us against them, and if you're not for us, you must be part of them, we're right, they're wrong, we're saved, they're damned, etc, etc, etc. Love and Light, Garry ###### Message-ID: <40DB2C60.DF6B8C16@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 105 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:26:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1088105211 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:26:51 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:26:51 CDT Organization: RoadRunner Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17018 Hi Garry, I just have to stick my big nose in here & answer for Peter if he doesn't mind. Well even if he does. ;) Garry Williams wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" > wrote: > > > >"kdc" wrote in message > >news:nkkkd0hvqiiiftp8u4eh6r9hmu0pgstqdq@4ax.com... > >: On 23 Jun 2004 13:58:15 -0700, amico3@hotmail.com (none) > >: wrote: > >: >I highly urge anyone who considers a Reiki attunement OR > >: >TREATMENT to give it a deep second thought before initiating > >: >it. > >: Brother - to understand what Reiki is, then you understand it > >: can have no such effect as you describe. > > > >I disagree with you because when you open yourself > >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one > >kind of energy. You cannot restrict yourself and say > >"I want reiki only". You may get reiki, but with it > >possibly a whole lot more. IOW, the reiki attunement > >and reiki energy may not be the cause of the > >problem in a direct manner but may leave the door > >open for other things to appear. > >That is why all-in-one, instant attunements, without > >any knowledge or grounding in the subject of reiki > >are problematic, if not dangerous, for some people. > >Global attunements, as we had in recent days days, > >available to all and sundry may well be irresponsible. > > > >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the > >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy > >land .............. > > My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this > "whole lot more" to which you refer? ReRead the definitions of the types Ki-Chi that you posted in the 'healing abilities?' thread, where you used those definitions to point out that Ki-Chi-UE could have sub types. > What, exactly, is one supposed to be protecting oneself from? Accessing my Golden Mist, Ki, Chi, UE or what ever any one calls it is like tuning into a cable TV system with an infinite number of channels. Reiki if meant to tune a person into the healing channel, but if a person has a unrestricted tuner, like (none) appears to, they may inadvertently tune into channels other than the one they were intended to. That is why when I first started talking about my abilities here I said I *Never* pass the energy through my body. I still don't, I activate it for the intended purpose where it is to do what I intend it to do. > Is there such a thing as "evil" vs "good", or are those > simply human value judgements, heavily dependent on the eye > of the beholder? (none) believes what s/he is experiencing is not good. Another person having the same experience may believe it is good. > Your remarks are rooted in fear, not instinctual fear, but good > old fashioned *mentally* constructed fear--how can subscribing > to mentally created fear have anything to do with Reiki? I read what Peter wrote as a caution, not as reacting from fear. > What about your recent post that said that Reiki can do no harm > by definition? IMO, it still stands on it's own based on the definition of how Reiki must be practiced. > Is not saying "that is a bad thing, I am good" just > another mechanism for strengthening the ego, for maintaining the > illusion of a separate self? What I believe Peter said & I agree, is that Reiki done as defined is good, but opening ones self to unrestricted Ki can be bad for some people. Without going into detail, I have experienced the energy field called, my Golden Mist, Ki, Chi, UE or what ever, used for what some people would call 'not good purposes'. Is that vague enough. ;) GramPaHugs, Alex, > Namaste, > > Garry -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:24:57 GMT Lines: 81 Message-ID: <40db320f.6205824@news.Individual.NET> References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40DB2C60.DF6B8C16@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de jWp7hmeFRYw2VWsaLe6v8g9RJ11hkrQG93KLjrTOasVdNjkD3h X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17022 On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:26:51 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >Hi Garry, >I just have to stick my big nose in here & answer for Peter if he doesn't mind. >Well even if he does. ;) Hi Alex! Come on in, the water's fine! :-) >Garry Williams wrote: > >> My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this >> "whole lot more" to which you refer? > >ReRead the definitions of the types Ki-Chi that you posted in the 'healing >abilities?' thread, where you used those definitions to point out that Ki-Chi-UE >could have sub types. Sure, but I took his meaning to be more like "there's a lot of things out there we don't know about and we should be scared, very scared, because we don't know!" >> What, exactly, is one supposed to be protecting oneself from? > >Accessing my Golden Mist, Ki, Chi, UE or what ever any one calls it is like >tuning into a cable TV system with an infinite number of channels. Reiki if >meant to tune a person into the healing channel, but if a person has a >unrestricted tuner, like (none) appears to, they may inadvertently tune into >channels other than the one they were intended to. A practical analogy. I guess the real question is, can a Reiki attunement "mistakenly" tune someone in to the wrong channel, or can a person be "broken" in such a way that a normal attunement won't work correctly on them? Personally, I suspect that every living thing in the universe comes pre-attuned right out of the box, as it were, but some are more aware than others. We like these little formalized rituals and ki "transfers" (pardon the movement analogy) as a means of giving ourselves permission to realize this is part of our "reality". After all, UE is UE, and it's everywhere (by definition), right? Otherwise, where is the tuner, what organ functions in that capacity? Speaking of attunements and tuning in, after one of my first degree attunements, I had a bizarre dream where everyone who was present in the class was standing next to me in our teacher's house, and we were all standing in front of the stereo, which was turned off at the moment. I reached out slowly with my hand and everyone else joined their hand to mine, and when my finger made contact with the face of the stereo, it came on, and it was tuned to the Reiki Channel. When my teacher got around to setting up a website, that's what she chose for the URL. Of course, that's neither here, nor there, just a little anecdote I felt like sharing. Apologies for wandering off... >That is why when I first started talking about my abilities here I said I >*Never* pass the energy through my body. I still don't, I activate it for the >intended purpose where it is to do what I intend it to do. I (mis)understood you to mean that it *couldn't* be moved, that when one activates it, one is always activating it wherever it is. Are you saying that it is *possible* to pass it through one's body, but not desirable to do so? When you observe one of us doing Reiki, what do you see happening? UE being activated in situ, or passing through the "transmitter" and "receiver"? I'm sure most of us are taught, rightly or wrongly, that the UE moves through us. I gather that's the general Japanese understanding of how ki works. If there's a constant influx and outflow, you're healthy, but if the flow dwindles and stops, you get sick and die. Is that a not very useful model of how the process of life works? >Without going into detail, I have experienced the energy field called, my Golden >Mist, Ki, Chi, UE or what ever, used for what some people would call 'not good >purposes'. >Is that vague enough. ;) Sure! And that's fine. By bringing up the "good/bad" stuff, I was trying to convince Peter to go down an entirely different, more esoterical primrose path, but we can go down the practical path, too. Love and Light, Garry ###### Message-ID: <40DB65E9.FF8B1D49@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40DB2C60.DF6B8C16@mn.rr.com> <40db320f.6205824@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 147 Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 23:40:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1088120407 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:40:07 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 18:40:07 CDT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!207.217.77.102!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17031 Hi Garry, Garry Williams wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:26:51 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > >Garry Williams wrote: > > > >> My indignant fantasy outcry concerns where and what is this > >> "whole lot more" to which you refer? > > > >ReRead the definitions of the types Ki-Chi that you posted in the > >'healing abilities?' thread, where you used those definitions to > >point out that Ki-Chi-UE could have sub types. > > Sure, but I took his meaning to be more like "there's a lot of things > out there we don't know about and we should be scared, very scared, > because we don't know!" Well when dealing with the unknown things of the macro & micro universe it it might be best if some people were scared enough to find out as much as they can about what they are venturing into instead of going in blindly. > >> What, exactly, is one supposed to be protecting oneself from? > > > >Accessing my Golden Mist, Ki, Chi, UE or what ever any one calls it > >is like tuning into a cable TV system with an infinite number of > >channels. Reiki is meant to tune a person into the healing channel, > >but if a person has a unrestricted tuner, like (none) appears to, > >they may inadvertently tune into channels other than the one they > >were intended to. > > A practical analogy. I guess the real question is, can a Reiki > attunement "mistakenly" tune someone in to the wrong channel, I don't have enough experience with Reiki to be able to say it could or couldn't. > or can a person be "broken" in such a way that a normal attunement > won't work correctly on them? I wouldn't call a person with a different mindset "broken". > Personally, I suspect that every living thing in > the universe comes pre-attuned right out of the box, as it were, but > some are more aware than others. We like these little formalized > rituals and ki "transfers" (pardon the movement analogy) as a means of > giving ourselves permission to realize this is part of our "reality". > After all, UE is UE, and it's everywhere (by definition), right? Correct & correct. > Otherwise, where is the tuner, what organ functions in that capacity? The CPU between our ears that is generally called the brain. > Speaking of attunements and tuning in, after one of my first degree > attunements, I had a bizarre dream where everyone who was present in > the class was standing next to me in our teacher's house, and we were > all standing in front of the stereo, which was turned off at the > moment. I reached out slowly with my hand and everyone else joined > their hand to mine, and when my finger made contact with the face of > the stereo, it came on, and it was tuned to the Reiki Channel. When my > teacher got around to setting up a website, that's what she chose for > the URL. Of course, that's neither here, nor there, just a little > anecdote I felt like sharing. Apologies for wandering off... No need to apologize, I found your experience interesting. > >That is why when I first started talking about my abilities here I > >said I *Never* pass the energy through my body. I still don't, I > >activate it for the intended purpose where it is to do what I intend > >it to do. > > I (mis)understood you to mean that it *couldn't* be moved, that when > one activates it, one is always activating it wherever it is. Are you > saying that it is *possible* to pass it through one's body, but not > desirable to do so? As I 'see' it UE doesn't move, but as I think I have mentioned before there are other energies in the UE field. Some of those are the energies that can be moved through the body & some of them may not be desirable to some people. > When you observe one of us doing Reiki, what do you see happening? Other than watching myself in a mirror I haven't had the, one on one, opportunity to observe reiki being done by another person. 'Viewing' a few of the attuners during the distance attunement & watching you & Steven a few times I see a form in the shape of a person of golden light causing (sending out) ripples in the UE. > UE being activated in situ, or passing through the > "transmitter" and "receiver"? When I am 'sending' (activating) reiki without physical contact as I did with my daughter last week what I 'see' is the UE at the place I am 'sending' to increase in brightness & become a more yellow gold. The UE didn't move from me to her. When I am treating my wife hands on as I am now & did when she had the lung cancer surgery I 'see' basically the same thing. To my wife it feels like my hand becomes hot (even though they may be ice cold) & she continues to feel my hot hand even after I have removed my hand. > I'm sure most of us are taught, rightly > or wrongly, that the UE moves through us. I gather that's the general > Japanese understanding of how ki works. If there's a constant influx > and outflow, you're healthy, but if the flow dwindles and stops, you > get sick and die. Is that a not very useful model of how the process > of life works? What ever works for who ever it works for. The little I know about the Japanese understanding of how ki works is from what I learned during advanced combat training in the Army, watching TV & movies & reading on the web. If I only felt & didn't 'see' what the Ki was actually doing, I may perceive it the same way as them. How I 'see' the way life works is even after a body has died & the energy we call spirit has left the body still glows with life until decay has consumed everything. Learning that freaked me out often as a young alter boy serving for funeral masses where the coffin was opened. > >Without going into detail, I have experienced the energy field > >called, my Golden Mist, Ki, Chi, UE or what ever, used for what some > >people would call 'not good purposes'. > >Is that vague enough. ;) > > Sure! And that's fine. By bringing up the "good/bad" stuff, I was > trying to convince Peter to go down an entirely different, more > esoterical primrose path, but we can go down the practical path, too. > Were you born during a year of the monkey? GramPaHugs, Alex, > Love and Light, > > Garry -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: kdc Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Organization: http://www.mega.bz Message-ID: References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s52 1088140629 67.169.57.204 (Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:17:09 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:17:09 GMT Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 05:17:09 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s52.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17038 On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I disagree with you because when you open yourself >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one >kind of energy. I guess I do not see this as you do. I do not see it as something of an other dimension. I see it very much a part of this one, as it has always been. Simply that we (as humans) did not understand it previously, and thus couldn't recognize it, does not mean it was not always there. We shall always have differences of understanding. It is the nature of the duality of our incarnate existence. Would it be presumptuous for me to say all views are correct here? >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy >land .............. None to be found here. Was that your best hope? --- spamtrap: remove the shadow to send an e-mail. http://www.MEGA.bz ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40DB2C60.DF6B8C16@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 06:57:18 +0200 Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-36.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40dd05b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jun 2004 07:12:17 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-36.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-36.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17076 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40DB2C60.DF6B8C16@mn.rr.com... : Hi Garry, : I just have to stick my big nose in here & answer for Peter if he doesn't mind. Pleeeeease! I may need all the support I can get. :) -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40db19b3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40db1fb9.1511199@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 06:57:24 +0200 Lines: 75 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-36.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40dd05b2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jun 2004 07:12:18 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-36.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-36.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17077 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40db1fb9.1511199@news.Individual.NET... : On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:11:31 +0200, "pr" wrote: : > : >When you are in the grip of demon possession then you will : >have very bad eyesight if you call that "good". And yes, this : : How do you know? Maybe I will enjoy it? Perhaps the experience will : profit my spirit mightily? Have you walked in my shoes lately? If not, : how do you know that what I call "good" isn't good, and what I call : "bad" isn't bad? If my values aren't your values, does that make me : crazy, and you, therefore superior? Why the need to judge another? I do not judge another, I judge what happens to them or what they do. This has a simple practical aspect. For all those who think that *any* kind of judgement is "bad", (how about this, now even have to judge judgement) I would like to say that even the Buddha judged and asked the question "what is called good/bad" - and then - would you belief it, even supplied answers! What an outrage, eh? And the man from Nazareth, as well as the one from Jedda, did so likewise. : >is a simple human value judgement which I am quite happy to : >make. Although I have no personal experience with such : >entities there is enough anectodal evidence, including from : >the highly respected Dr Scott Peck, that such things are : >real. : : What is meant by real? I mean, really? When it affects your life. : >churches caution against the occult for the same reasons. : : It has been my experience that churches caution against the occult (or : other religious sects) mostly to keep people and their money in their : parish and not someone else's. Fear of the other, fear of losing : money, fear of losing status, fear of what is not understood, it's us : against them, and if you're not for us, you must be part of them, : we're right, they're wrong, we're saved, they're damned, etc, etc, : etc. A very popular view. I am a bit more charitable and assume that at the core the churches have indeed the best interest of their members at heart. They may not be very competent in getting this across, or may not be diplomatic or tactful when talking about other churches, faith or denominations, may be lacking in skills in achieving their objectives. And the money collected is not exactly extracted at gun point either, is it? Consider this, the money they collected has given us many of the buildings all over the world which we routinely go and view, and marvel at, and admire for the ingenuity and skills, when we are on a holiday. In the process it gave work to peasants and master builders for years and their legacy gives many people great pleasure and enjoyment. Are you saying that if you ever find yourself in Haifa, Israel, you would not go and visit the Bahai temple they built over the last couple of years because they are ... well .. like the others? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 08:48:34 +0200 Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-71.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40dd4aff.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jun 2004 12:07:59 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-71.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-71.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17084 "kdc" wrote in message news:n8dnd0hpsi94eskeaf4ukvqmqgfk3k1pi5@4ax.com... : On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" wrote: : : >I disagree with you because when you open yourself : >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one : >kind of energy. : : I guess I do not see this as you do. I do not see it as something of : an other dimension. I see it very much a part of this one, as it has : always been. Simply that we (as humans) did not understand it : previously, and thus couldn't recognize it, does not mean it was not : always there. : : We shall always have differences of understanding. It is the nature : of the duality of our incarnate existence. Would it be presumptuous : for me to say all views are correct here? Hmmm, are they all correct, under all circumstances? I don't think so. For example, Newtonian physics looks correct for our everyday life, but is useless for quantum physics. You could possibly say that all views are correct provided they applied to their specific realm of applicability. Even there, I would say that they all views are only provisionally correct. IOW, they have utility value but no absolute truth value. : >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the : >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy : >land .............. : : None to be found here. Was that your best hope? As you can see I forestalled them effectively :) The whole area is open to mis-interpretation and I have no inclination to get involved into a debate about that. For example, when I refer to other dimension that does not mean that it was not always here and what is "other" depends on your idea of what is "this". -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 10:52:14 GMT Lines: 92 Message-ID: <40dd4fd2.4291185@news.Individual.NET> References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40db19b3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40db1fb9.1511199@news.Individual.NET> <40dd05b2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de mckhbNC9ZMip4L3BPC0mewOFE8LLNOyyByMB42SEfgKhiXBBOu X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17086 On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 06:57:24 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:40db1fb9.1511199@news.Individual.NET... >: On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 20:11:31 +0200, "pr" wrote: >: > > >: >When you are in the grip of demon possession then you will >: >have very bad eyesight if you call that "good". And yes, this >: >: How do you know? Maybe I will enjoy it? Perhaps the experience will >: profit my spirit mightily? Have you walked in my shoes lately? If not, >: how do you know that what I call "good" isn't good, and what I call >: "bad" isn't bad? If my values aren't your values, does that make me >: crazy, and you, therefore superior? Why the need to judge another? > >I do not judge another, I judge what happens to them or what >they do. This has a simple practical aspect. For all those who >think that *any* kind of judgement is "bad", (how about this, >now even have to judge judgement) I would like to say that even >the Buddha judged and asked the question "what is called good/bad" - >and then - would you belief it, even supplied answers! What an >outrage, eh? >And the man from Nazareth, as well as the one from Jedda, did >so likewise. Speaking of the man from Nazareth, I seem to recall something from Bible school when I was kid about "Judge not, lest ye be judged in turn." Hmmm, there seems to be a fly in the ointment.... :-) But judging judgment is like judging anything else, isn't it? Judgment happens. Doesn't make it good or bad, it just happens. Is it useful? Sometimes seems to be, sometimes not. But that's a judgment, too. :-) The point is, it's a mental exercise, and not a function of seeing the world as it is. >: >is a simple human value judgement which I am quite happy to >: >make. Although I have no personal experience with such >: >entities there is enough anectodal evidence, including from >: >the highly respected Dr Scott Peck, that such things are >: >real. >: >: What is meant by real? I mean, really? > >When it affects your life. Doesn't everything affect your life? Whether directly or indirectly? Anyways, what I was trying to get at with my question is the nature of our being: is the impermanent real? >: >churches caution against the occult for the same reasons. >: >: It has been my experience that churches caution against the occult (or >: other religious sects) mostly to keep people and their money in their >: parish and not someone else's. Fear of the other, fear of losing >: money, fear of losing status, fear of what is not understood, it's us >: against them, and if you're not for us, you must be part of them, >: we're right, they're wrong, we're saved, they're damned, etc, etc, >: etc. > >A very popular view. I am a bit more charitable and assume >that at the core the churches have indeed the best interest >of their members at heart. They may not be very competent >in getting this across, or may not be diplomatic or tactful >when talking about other churches, faith or denominations, >may be lacking in skills in achieving their objectives. >And the money collected is not exactly extracted at gun >point either, is it? ...hence the motive for the marketing/mud-slinging campaign amongst the unenlightened. :-) >Consider this, the money they collected has given us many >of the buildings all over the world which we routinely go and >view, and marvel at, and admire for the ingenuity and skills, >when we are on a holiday. In the process it gave work to >peasants and master builders for years and their legacy >gives many people great pleasure and enjoyment. >Are you saying that if you ever find yourself in Haifa, Israel, >you would not go and visit the Bahai temple they built over >the last couple of years because they are ... well .. like >the others? Sure, I've gotten pleasure out of admiring temple architecture, and no doubt will do so again. So what's that got to do with churches and the occult? I think we're starting to wander off a bit. :-) namaste, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40daa1f3.919248@news.Individual.NET> <40db19b3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40db1fb9.1511199@news.Individual.NET> <40dd05b2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40dd4fd2.4291185@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 16:11:46 +0200 Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-243.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40dd8430.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jun 2004 16:12:00 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-243.mweb.co.za Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-243.mweb.co.za Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17094 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40dd4fd2.4291185@news.Individual.NET... : On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 06:57:24 +0200, "pr" wrote: : : >: It has been my experience that churches caution against the occult (or : >: other religious sects) mostly to keep people and their money in their : >: parish and not someone else's. Fear of the other, fear of losing : >: money, fear of losing status, fear of what is not understood, it's us : >: against them, and if you're not for us, you must be part of them, : >: we're right, they're wrong, we're saved, they're damned, etc, etc, : >: etc. : > : >A very popular view. I am a bit more charitable and assume : >that at the core the churches have indeed the best interest : >of their members at heart. They may not be very competent : >in getting this across, or may not be diplomatic or tactful : >when talking about other churches, faith or denominations, : >may be lacking in skills in achieving their objectives. : >And the money collected is not exactly extracted at gun : >point either, is it? : : ...hence the motive for the marketing/mud-slinging campaign amongst : the unenlightened. :-) : : >Consider this, the money they collected has given us many : >of the buildings all over the world which we routinely go and : >view, and marvel at, and admire for the ingenuity and skills, : >when we are on a holiday. In the process it gave work to : >peasants and master builders for years and their legacy : >gives many people great pleasure and enjoyment. : >Are you saying that if you ever find yourself in Haifa, Israel, : >you would not go and visit the Bahai temple they built over : >the last couple of years because they are ... well .. like : >the others? : : Sure, I've gotten pleasure out of admiring temple architecture, and no : doubt will do so again. So what's that got to do with churches and the : occult? I think we're starting to wander off a bit. :-) It has to do with the implied complaint that the churches extract(ed) money from people through dubious means and that the world got nothing for it, that only the churches themselves benefit in a very selfish way. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40DD8FE5.472FC27E@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Attunements can (not) be dangerous References: <40da91bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40dd4aff.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 15:03:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1088262208 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:03:28 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2004 09:03:28 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feed.cgocable.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:17098 Without refuting anything said, it would be interesting to inquire into the possibility that this is all an example of our 'logical world', no? Rich pr wrote: > > "kdc" wrote in message > news:n8dnd0hpsi94eskeaf4ukvqmqgfk3k1pi5@4ax.com... > : On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 10:31:15 +0200, "pr" wrote: > : > : >I disagree with you because when you open yourself > : >up to other dimensions you do it for more than one > : >kind of energy. > : > : I guess I do not see this as you do. I do not see it as something of > : an other dimension. I see it very much a part of this one, as it has > : always been. Simply that we (as humans) did not understand it > : previously, and thus couldn't recognize it, does not mean it was not > : always there. > : > : We shall always have differences of understanding. It is the nature > : of the duality of our incarnate existence. Would it be presumptuous > : for me to say all views are correct here? > > Hmmm, are they all correct, under all circumstances? > I don't think so. For example, Newtonian physics looks > correct for our everyday life, but is useless for quantum > physics. You could possibly say that all views are correct > provided they applied to their specific realm of applicability. > Even there, I would say that they all views are only > provisionally correct. IOW, they have utility value but no > absolute truth value. > > : >And now I will wait for the indignant outcry of all the > : >trusting well-meaning reiki folks who live in fantasy > : >land .............. > : > : None to be found here. Was that your best hope? > > As you can see I forestalled them effectively :) The whole > area is open to mis-interpretation and I have no inclination > to get involved into a debate about that. For example, when > I refer to other dimension that does not mean that it was > not always here and what is "other" depends on your idea > of what is "this". > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs"