X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:43:50 GMT Lines: 69 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14785 Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines "precept" as, 1) A command or principal intended as a general rule or action. "just for today, don't worry" "just for today, don't be angry" "just for today, be grateful" "just for today, work hard on yourself" "just for today, be kind to others" In the morning and at night, with hands held in prayer, Think this in your mind, chant this with your mouth. The Usui Reiki Method to change your mind and body for the better Here are just a few quotes of the past week concerning the precepts: "The precepts are there, and we follow them, not because they can be achieved but because we can't." "The point of the precepts is to learn who you really are and not to be perfect according to some rules. If it makes you happy I will change the "because they can't be achieved" to "despite they can't be achieved". "i have been trying to remember to apply the principles lately and i have had to change it from "just for today" to "just for this moment" because even a day is too long for me to try to keep anger and worry at bay." "The five precepts are not some magical formular to cure oneself. They are certainly good principles to adher to when possible but they are far from the only such principals found in many cultures. Living with them as a guide (which is all anyone can do) may well releive some stress from life and the reduction of stress is always helpful." Why is so difficult to believe that these principals are the cornerstone of the reiki doctrine? If it were believed, there would be much more discussion concerning them. How do people expect to get good results in their healing work when they cannot follow the principals of action?. . .or worse yet, don't believe in their capacity to heal when followed faithfully? Why do many people that practice reiki, devalue them? Why is the main focus on learning techniques to heal others when the most difficult and beneficial work is outlined in the precepts and it involves not healing others, but improving ones own life? Why is a level one capable of "healing" another, yet may not be capable of living by the precepts to heal self? Why does healing ones self seem so evasive, yet it is so easy to believe someone else is getting whatever they need in their life to heal a situation after reiki is sent? i think most people feel that the principals are not really achievable but rather a path to loosely follow. . . . and because your intention falls short of what is possible, the outcome will also fall short. There is no description of *how* to accomplish these things. They are commands that one gives to ones self. There are as many ways as there are people to achieve them , but the important thing remains, *accomplishing* them. Love is . . . . ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:32:50 GMT Lines: 9 Message-ID: <40584470.2869105@news.Individual.NET> References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka32c.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.76) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1079526522 72839855 I 207.69.12.76 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka32c.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14789 Go, Kevin! Garry P.S. Just thought you might want to add the pre-amble as well: "The secret method of inviting happiness, "The wonderful medicine for all diseases...." ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:23:49 GMT Lines: 50 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!195.185.185.44.MISMATCH!feed.news.tiscali.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14792 Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but i'll take a jab at it anyway. "Rich" wrote in message news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities of reiki that people value the opinion of? > Instead > of helping and healing, some of them would even create blockages in the > long run. They have gone against the precepts. . . 100%. . . .how can people give any credit to the authors? >Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or worried, > always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the > Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or > depressive at some point because of a presumed failure." i'm speachless. . . . > The authors go on to say, "Usui was aware of the esoteric use of the > world's language. If a student was to be stimulated to personal > development through principles and texts, the content would have to be > formulated in such a way that the meaning is complex Like the meaning isn't complex enough. . . .? >and the individual > messages only discovered through precise study,as well as the basic > questioning of everyday thought patterns." Etc. Etc. > From the point of view of these authors, all is well on the AHR > newsfront!! > Cheers > Rich Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly makes me sad to think people believe them. Love is. . . . going within and listening to self first. . . .. then you have heard enough. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <405864CB.8B700041@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 60 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:48:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1079534937 24.71.223.147 (Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:48:57 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:48:57 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14796 Well, actually your response has more to say about you than about Reiki and the principles...and I've seen them more called principles than precepts. Coming from 'being' there is not the assessment that you indulge in. They are doing for you what you get from them and I can understand that you are reacting your way to what the authors have to say. Maybe the authors have spent the time studying Japanese culture, rather than Western positive thinking which is so results oriented? By the way, is your 'intention' here to set us all straight and create a 'New Improved Reiki'? Just wondering. Rich arthealer wrote: > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive > the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but i'll take > a jab at it anyway. > > "Rich" wrote in message news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. > > Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities of reiki > that people value the opinion of? > > > Instead > > of helping and healing, some of them would even create blockages in the > > long run. > > They have gone against the precepts. . . 100%. . . .how can people give > any credit to the authors? > > >Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or worried, > > always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the > > Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or > > depressive at some point because of a presumed failure." > > i'm speachless. . . . > > > The authors go on to say, "Usui was aware of the esoteric use of the > > world's language. If a student was to be stimulated to personal > > development through principles and texts, the content would have to be > > formulated in such a way that the meaning is complex > > Like the meaning isn't complex enough. . . .? > > >and the individual > > messages only discovered through precise study,as well as the basic > > questioning of everyday thought patterns." Etc. Etc. > > From the point of view of these authors, all is well on the AHR > > newsfront!! > > Cheers > > Rich > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive > the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly makes > me sad to think people believe them. > > Love is. . . . going within and listening to self first. . . .. then you > have heard enough. ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <9fad69d5122cad9b4f28fb100614b09b@news.teranews.com> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:19:21 GMT Lines: 39 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <405864CB.8B700041@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14797 "Rich" wrote in message news:405864CB.8B700041@shaw.ca... > Well, actually your response has more to say about you than about Reiki > and the principles... Well of course it does Rich. . .. . just as this post of yours says more about you than me. >and I've seen them more called principles than > precepts. Coming from 'being' there is not the assessment that you > indulge in. What does that mean? >They are doing for you what you get from them and I can > understand that you are reacting your way to what the authors have to > say. Maybe the authors have spent the time studying Japanese culture, > rather than Western positive thinking which is so results oriented? If this is true then the author of the precepts must be a bit more Western in his thinking than we previously thought: "The Usui Reiki Method to change your mind and body for the better". . . . .sounds a bit result oriented, no? >By > the way, is your 'intention' here to set us all straight and create a > 'New Improved Reiki'? Just wondering. > Rich i can only take your posture as one that believes the crap you posted by the authors Walter Lubeck, Frank Petter, and William Rand. And it wouldn't be a "New and Improved Reiki". . . .but rather one that the author of the precepts intended. Love is. . . ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:35:34 GMT Lines: 118 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14801 i suppose you posted this because it says it better than you could. . . . "Rich" wrote in message news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. You mean the literal translation which is the precepts? > Instead > of helping and healing, some of them would even create blockages in the > long run. Please explain this line of reasoning to me. > Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or worried, > always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the > Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or > depressive at some point because of a presumed failure." Speaking from experience? > The authors go on to say, "Usui was aware of the esoteric use of the > world's language. > If a student was to be stimulated to personal > development through principles and texts, the content would have to be > formulated in such a way that the meaning is complex and the individual > messages only discovered through precise study,as well as the basic > questioning of everyday thought patterns." Etc. Etc. Don't you love it when someone wants to make something so elegantly simple. . . . . .difficult and shrouded in mystery just to make a buck! > From the point of view of these authors,( and yourself) all is well on the AHR > newsfront!! > Cheers > Rich > > arthealer wrote: > > > > Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines "precept" as, 1) A command > > or principal intended as a general rule or action. > > > > "just for today, don't worry" > > "just for today, don't be angry" > > "just for today, be grateful" > > "just for today, work hard on yourself" > > "just for today, be kind to others" > > In the morning and at night, > > with hands held in prayer, > > Think this in your mind, > > chant this with your mouth. > > The Usui Reiki Method > > to change your mind and body for the better > > > > Here are just a few quotes of the past week concerning the precepts: > > > > "The precepts are there, and we follow them, not > > because they can be achieved but because we can't." > > > > "The point of the precepts is to learn who you really are > > and not to be perfect according to some rules. > > If it makes you happy I will change the "because they > > can't be achieved" to "despite they can't be achieved". > > > > "i have been trying to remember to apply the principles lately and i have > > had > > to change it from "just for today" to "just for this moment" because even a > > day is too long for me to try to keep anger and worry at bay." > > > > "The five precepts are not some magical formular to cure oneself. > > They are certainly good principles to adher to when possible but they are > > far from the only such principals found in many cultures. > > Living with them as a guide (which is all anyone can do) may well releive > > some stress from life and the reduction of stress is always helpful." > > > > Why is so difficult to believe that these principals are the cornerstone > > of the reiki doctrine? > > If it were believed, there would be much more discussion concerning them. > > How do people expect to get good results in their healing work when they > > cannot follow the principals of action?. . .or worse yet, don't believe in > > their capacity to heal when followed faithfully? > > Why do many people that practice reiki, devalue them? > > Why is the main focus on learning techniques to heal others when the most > > difficult and beneficial work is outlined in the precepts and it involves > > not healing others, but improving ones own life? > > Why is a level one capable of "healing" another, yet may not be capable of > > living by the precepts to heal self? > > Why does healing ones self seem so evasive, yet it is so easy to believe > > someone else is getting whatever they need in their life to heal a situation > > after reiki is sent? > > > > i think most people feel that the principals are not > > really achievable but rather a path to loosely follow. . . . and because > > your > > intention falls short of what is possible, the outcome will also fall short. > > There is no description of *how* to accomplish these things. They are > > commands that one gives to ones self. There are as many ways as there are > > people to achieve them , but the important thing remains, *accomplishing* > > them. > > > > Love is . . . . ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40589F5D.5A9A07EF@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <405864CB.8B700041@shaw.ca> <9fad69d5122cad9b4f28fb100614b09b@news.teranews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:58:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1079549932 24.71.223.147 (Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:58:52 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:58:52 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14805 On PBS TV last night Andrew Weil, author of 'Spontaneous Healing' said at the end of his presentation, "One of the powerful energizers of the immune system is the acceptance or resignation (his word) of the patient to the illness". He spoke of having to stop trying to 'wage war' or 'fight' the disease. He didn't say these things as good advice, but because he saw many instances of healing occuring when 'resignation' (his word) was present. This whole phenomena of healing is a mystery, right? Sometimes it happens when we have the right intentions, sometimes it happens when we discard all intentions. Go figure! :) cheers Rich arthealer wrote: > > "Rich" wrote in message news:405864CB.8B700041@shaw.ca... > > Well, actually your response has more to say about you than about Reiki > > and the principles... > > Well of course it does Rich. . .. . just as this post of yours says more > about you than me. > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:51:20 +0200 Lines: 172 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: dbn-dial-196-30-32-250.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 18 Mar 2004 08:26:48 +0200, dbn-dial-196-30-32-250.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!dbn-dial-196-30-32-250.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14821 "arthealer" wrote in message news:134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com... [stuff snipped] > Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary defines "precept" as, 1) A command > or principal intended as a general rule or action. > > "just for today, don't worry" > "just for today, don't be angry" > "just for today, be grateful" > "just for today, work hard on yourself" > "just for today, be kind to others" > In the morning and at night, > with hands held in prayer, > Think this in your mind, > chant this with your mouth. > The Usui Reiki Method > to change your mind and body for the better > > Here are just a few quotes of the past week concerning the precepts: > > "The precepts are there, and we follow them, not > because they can be achieved but because we can't." > > "The point of the precepts is to learn who you really are > and not to be perfect according to some rules. > If it makes you happy I will change the "because they > can't be achieved" to "despite they can't be achieved". > > > "i have been trying to remember to apply the principles lately and i have > had > to change it from "just for today" to "just for this moment" because even a > day is too long for me to try to keep anger and worry at bay." > > "The five precepts are not some magical formular to cure oneself. > They are certainly good principles to adher to when possible but they are > far from the only such principals found in many cultures. > Living with them as a guide (which is all anyone can do) may well releive > some stress from life and the reduction of stress is always helpful." > > Why is so difficult to believe that these principals are the cornerstone > of the reiki doctrine? I did not see anybody saying that they are not the cornerstone of reiki. In fact, Garry wrote an e-mail not so long ago expressing his sadness and disappointment that they are usually not used in their full context. > If it were believed, there would be much more discussion concerning them. It is because they are believed that there is so little discussion. We do not disagree with each other, so what is there to discuss? Maybe you mean that we could or should be reminded about them more often? > How do people expect to get good results in their healing work when they > cannot follow the principals of action?. . .or worse yet, don't believe in > their capacity to heal when followed faithfully? I don't see them as principles of action but as principles of being, and being in the world > Why do many people that practice reiki, devalue them? Huh? Who devalues them? And how? > Why is the main focus on learning techniques to heal others when the most > difficult and beneficial work is outlined in the precepts and it involves > not healing others, but improving ones own life? Because we are do-gooders wanting the adoration of the world :-) Or maybe, while we battle with the difficult and beneficial work we might as well try to help some other fellow travellers along the way. > Why is a level one capable of "healing" another, yet may not be capable of > living by the precepts to heal self? I still have to meet somebody who would not capable to live by the precepts. Whenever I mention them to somebody they are received with open mind and often some admiration for the aims and their simplicity. > Why does healing ones self seem so evasive, yet it is so easy to believe > someone else is getting whatever they need in their life to heal a situation > after reiki is sent? Because healing self is usually on a different level to healing others. And it is because people do not understand themselves, nor what is required. Look at the success rate of psychotherapy which is abysmal, considering the effort and money that goes into it, for the same reasons. > i think most people feel that the principals are not > really achievable but rather a path to loosely follow They are achievable and at the same time not achievable, but they are definitley not a path to loosely follow. If Ginger says that she needs to turn it into a moment by moment thing, then as she succeeds "in every moment" she achieves them in that moment. There may be many moments in which she is not able to live up to them. But even remembering that she did not succeed in a praticular situation is a success for the principles. >. . . . and because your > intention falls short of what is possible, the outcome will also fall short. The outcome does not fall short because of your inadequate intention but because of inadequate application. You do not even have to belief that the principles work, they will work and do their thing as long as you apply them. > There is no description of *how* to accomplish these things. They are > commands that one gives to ones self. The "what to do" is also the "how to do". >There are as many ways as there are > people to achieve them , but the important thing remains, *accomplishing* > them. What do you mean by "as many ways as there are people"? There may be a few versions of the principles, differing in wording and emphasis but all expressing more or less the same sentiments. The versions are far fewer than people. There is only one way to achieve them, use them as instructed, and this is also the most important thing. Accomplishment, whatever that may mean to you, will automatically follow. By your focus on accomplishment you are already out of the moment, into the realm of comparisons, how thing should be, or could be, essentially a realm of phantasy. You write about trust in life, but you seem to be unable to trust that simple, dedicated application of the principles will yield a result. You want to compare, you have your ideas what accomplishment means, you want to judge how you (and maybe others) have done. You must check on the principles, do they work? Do they work right, in the right way? Do they deliver the result you want? There is no trust if you need to check and compare. If I really have trust in them, and apply them, why should I be concerned one bit about accomplishment? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:14:30 +0200 Lines: 47 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: dbn-dial-196-30-34-77.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 18 Mar 2004 16:09:10 +0200, dbn-dial-196-30-34-77.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!dbn-dial-196-30-34-77.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14833 "arthealer" wrote in message news:f360bc432410959c3bd6317c3c4920d0@news.teranews.com... > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive > the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but i'll take > a jab at it anyway. > > "Rich" wrote in message news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. > > Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities of reiki > that people value the opinion of? Have you ever heard that there are exoteric and esoteric teachings, both proceeding from exactly the same material? The exoteric teaching is for the simple people who are not interested too much in penetrating the mysteries of their existence but nevertheless need something to cope with their lives. The esoteric teaching are for the committed and truly spiritual people. They are not secret but usually require a bit of an effort to understand. From an exoteric viewpoint, which is also a literal one, the statement quoted does seem to be useless. From an esoteric standpoint it is profound. DO NOT mix up the two!! Do not take something meant to be exoteric as esoteric, or vice versa. You will be in deep trouble as far as understanding is concerned. > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive > the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly makes > me sad to think people believe them. The misconception is yours. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:30:48 GMT Lines: 75 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14830 "pr" wrote in message news:40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "arthealer" wrote in message > news:134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com... snipped every bit of the good stuff leaving only the skeleton of what used to be a good post. . . . > > Why is so difficult to believe that these principals are the cornerstone > > of the reiki doctrine? > > I did not see anybody saying that they are not the cornerstone > of reiki. In fact, Garry wrote an e-mail not so long ago expressing > his sadness and disappointment that they are usually not > used in their full context. pr, if it is indeed the cornerstone of reiki, then why do people say either it isn't posible or it is just good for stress???? wouldn't it be a bit more healing than that? if it is the cornerstone of reiki why is it down played????? When you said, " "The precepts are there, and we follow them, not because they can be achieved but because we can't." What does this mean????? **If the precepts *are* the cornerstone of reiki and they are unachievable then what is their value?????. . .what is the value of reiki itself ** > > If it were believed, there would be much more discussion concerning them. > > It is because they are believed that there is so little > discussion. We do not disagree with each other, so > what is there to discuss? > Maybe you mean that we could or should be reminded > about them more often? ****no, if people were putting them in place in there busy lives daily there would be a TREMENDOUS amount of discussion****** > > How do people expect to get good results in their healing work when they > > cannot follow the principals of action?. . .or worse yet, don't believe in > > their capacity to heal when followed faithfully? > > I don't see them as principles of action but as principles > of being, and being in the world When you put them into place in your life and live by them they become action. . .. . When you take them up daily and participate in them they become action. . .. > > Why do many people that practice reiki, devalue them? > > Huh? Who devalues them? And how? help love is . . . . ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:27:47 GMT Lines: 70 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14835 "pr" wrote in message news:4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "arthealer" wrote in message > news:f360bc432410959c3bd6317c3c4920d0@news.teranews.com... > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive > > the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but i'll > take > > a jab at it anyway. > > > > "Rich" wrote in message > news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > > > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > > > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > > > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. > > > > Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities of > reiki > > that people value the opinion of? > > Have you ever heard that there are exoteric and esoteric teachings, > both proceeding from exactly the same material? The exoteric > teaching is for the simple people who are not interested too much > in penetrating the mysteries of their existence but nevertheless > need something to cope with their lives. > The esoteric teaching are for the committed and truly spiritual > people. They are not secret but usually require a bit of an effort > to understand. > From an exoteric viewpoint, which is also a literal one, the statement > quoted does seem to be useless. From an esoteric standpoint it > is profound. > > DO NOT mix up the two!! Do not take something meant to be > exoteric as esoteric, or vice versa. You will be in deep trouble as > far as understanding is concerned. it goes on to say,"Instead of helping and healing, some of them would even create blockages in the long run. ** Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or worried, always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or depressive at some point because of a presumed failure."** esoterically speaking, what message does this conceal? > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how pervasive > > the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly makes > > me sad to think people believe them. > > The misconception is yours. The authors believe that a "presumed failure" is inevidible and will cause frustration, cynicism, depression and even create blockages.Fortunately, Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote them.. > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4059C52B.E43D45DC@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 86 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:52:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1079625147 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:52:27 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:52:27 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder2.ecngs.de!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14837 Good grief, let's put this whole conversation into perspective! It is turning out that the 'lesson' (I apologize for that word, and I can't think of another one to use right now) here is what happens when only a piece of information is available, how we react when somebody says something that pushes our buttons. And our buttons get pushed all the time! One way to react to what I quoted would be, "How dare the authors say such a thing!" That gets us to someplace. Another way might be, "Wow! What's that all about?".....then go further with the authors to try to understand exactly why they would say what they did. That gets us to a completely different place. Both options are possible ways to live life. I guess the choice we make is determined by what we think we need to defend. If we were to use this 'lesson' in our everyday life, who knows what we might learn about decisions we have made about things in the past!! I may sound a bit preachy here and I am struck by the thought, "Is this also a part of Reiki?" Maybe it isn't about the words we struggle with, but about what we take away from the discussion into our own life? :) Cheers Rich arthealer wrote: > > "pr" wrote in message > news:40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > > > "arthealer" wrote in message > > news:134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com... > > snipped every bit of the good stuff leaving only the skeleton of what used > to be a good post. . . . > > > > Why is so difficult to believe that these principals are the cornerstone > > > of the reiki doctrine? > > > > I did not see anybody saying that they are not the cornerstone > > of reiki. In fact, Garry wrote an e-mail not so long ago expressing > > his sadness and disappointment that they are usually not > > used in their full context. > > pr, if it is indeed the cornerstone of reiki, then why do people say either > it isn't posible or it is just good for stress???? wouldn't it be a bit more > healing than that? > > if it is the cornerstone of reiki why is it down played????? > > When you said, " "The precepts are there, and we follow them, not > because they can be achieved but because we can't." What does this > mean????? > > **If the precepts *are* the cornerstone of reiki and they are unachievable > then what is their value?????. . .what is the value of reiki itself ** > > > > If it were believed, there would be much more discussion concerning > them. > > > > > It is because they are believed that there is so little > > discussion. We do not disagree with each other, so > > what is there to discuss? > > Maybe you mean that we could or should be reminded > > about them more often? > > ****no, if people were putting them in place in there busy lives daily there > would be a TREMENDOUS amount of discussion****** > > > > How do people expect to get good results in their healing work when they > > > cannot follow the principals of action?. . .or worse yet, don't believe > in > > > their capacity to heal when followed faithfully? > > > > I don't see them as principles of action but as principles > > of being, and being in the world > > When you put them into place in your life and live by them they become > action. . .. . > When you take them up daily and participate in them they become action. . .. > > > > Why do many people that practice reiki, devalue them? > > > > > Huh? Who devalues them? And how? > > help > > love is . . . . ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 82 Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:35:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1079627747 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:47 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:35:47 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14838 When I challenged myself to start a running program I went to the public library and got several books on running. These authors, all of them had been running marathons for years, filled their books with what happens if you start to run and expect everything to be rosy. They say things like, "Distance runners are stubborn and stupid." "More than half of all runners get injured." "There are principles to follow to be a successful runner and they usually aren't followed." As I develop to be somewhat of a runner, I am certainly struck by how accurate these authors are. I don't look at what they say to be negative but more of just what is so. When I try to shortcut my training it is easier to get back on track, knowing that there is some understanding by those who've been there. My two cents! Cheers Rich arthealer wrote: > > "pr" wrote in message > news:4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > > > "arthealer" wrote in message > > news:f360bc432410959c3bd6317c3c4920d0@news.teranews.com... > > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how > pervasive > > > the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but i'll > > take > > > a jab at it anyway. > > > > > > "Rich" wrote in message > > news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > > > > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > > > > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > > > > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. > > > > > > Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities of > > reiki > > > that people value the opinion of? > > > > Have you ever heard that there are exoteric and esoteric teachings, > > both proceeding from exactly the same material? The exoteric > > teaching is for the simple people who are not interested too much > > in penetrating the mysteries of their existence but nevertheless > > need something to cope with their lives. > > The esoteric teaching are for the committed and truly spiritual > > people. They are not secret but usually require a bit of an effort > > to understand. > > From an exoteric viewpoint, which is also a literal one, the statement > > quoted does seem to be useless. From an esoteric standpoint it > > is profound. > > > > DO NOT mix up the two!! Do not take something meant to be > > exoteric as esoteric, or vice versa. You will be in deep trouble as > > far as understanding is concerned. > > it goes on to say,"Instead of helping and healing, some of them would even > create blockages in the > long run. ** Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or worried, > always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the > Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or > depressive at some point because of a presumed failure."** > > esoterically speaking, what message does this conceal? > > > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how > pervasive > > > the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly > makes > > > me sad to think people believe them. > > > > The misconception is yours. > > The authors believe that a "presumed failure" is inevidible and will cause > frustration, cynicism, depression and even create blockages.Fortunately, > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > them.. > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4059C52B.E43D45DC@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:32:15 +0200 Lines: 82 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: dbn-dial-196-30-32-38.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <405af0ca.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 19 Mar 2004 15:08:26 +0200, dbn-dial-196-30-32-38.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!dbn-dial-196-30-32-38.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14865 > arthealer wrote: > > > > "pr" wrote in message > > news:40594128.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > > > > > "arthealer" wrote in message > > > news:134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com... > > > > snipped every bit of the good stuff leaving only the skeleton of what used > > to be a good post. . . . > > > > > > Why is so difficult to believe that these principals are the cornerstone > > > > of the reiki doctrine? > > > > > > I did not see anybody saying that they are not the cornerstone > > > of reiki. In fact, Garry wrote an e-mail not so long ago expressing > > > his sadness and disappointment that they are usually not > > > used in their full context. > > > > pr, if it is indeed the cornerstone of reiki, then why do people say either > > it isn't posible or it is just good for stress???? wouldn't it be a bit more > > healing than that? > > > > if it is the cornerstone of reiki why is it down played????? Sorry I am missing the intermediate post from arthealer. I must that you are getting a bit tiring with your continual harping on this. I do not see anybody downplaying it. It is a matter of emphasis and if you are highly stressed it is quite allright to focus on that for a time and not so much on ultimate enlightenment or other aspects of healing. Work with what you have got, work on what bothers you at the moment, the rest will come by itself. Stop reading something into it because their present focus is not yours. > > > > When you said, " "The precepts are there, and we follow them, not > > because they can be achieved but because we can't." What does this > > mean????? It means it is a challenge. Like a mountain climber on a difficult route, you can see how far you get, and even if you don't succeed you may come and try again. > > **If the precepts *are* the cornerstone of reiki and they are unachievable > > then what is their value?????. . .what is the value of reiki itself ** They are achievable in the moment, but maybe not every moment. What do you chose to focus on? > > ****no, if people were putting them in place in there busy lives daily there > > would be a TREMENDOUS amount of discussion****** We are discussing them now, don't we? Is that not good enough? > > > > Why do many people that practice reiki, devalue them? > > > > > Huh? Who devalues them? And how? > > > > help What I see here is you throwing a tantrum because nobody seems to agree with you. You say you follow them and attack other people left, right and center. I could easily perceive that some people see that as devaluing them. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <7c43c79aeef3e02c3dda1938835d0ab7@news.teranews.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:03:23 GMT Lines: 102 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14866 "Rich" wrote in message news:4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca... > When I challenged myself to start a running program I went to the public > library and got several books on running. These authors, all of them had > been running marathons for years, filled their books with what happens > if you start to run and expect everything to be rosy. They say things > like, "Distance runners are stubborn and stupid." "More than half of all > runners get injured." "There are principles to follow to be a successful > runner and they usually aren't followed." > As I develop to be somewhat of a runner, I am certainly struck by how > accurate these authors are. I don't look at what they say to be negative > but more of just what is so. So when are you going to implement the precepts so you can compare what these authors have to say with your *personal experience*?? Love is. . .. . knowing. >When I try to shortcut my training it is > easier to get back on track, knowing that there is some understanding by > those who've been there. My two cents! > Cheers > Rich > > arthealer wrote: > > > > "pr" wrote in message > > news:4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > > > > > "arthealer" wrote in message > > > news:f360bc432410959c3bd6317c3c4920d0@news.teranews.com... > > > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how > > pervasive > > > > the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but i'll > > > take > > > > a jab at it anyway. > > > > > > > > "Rich" wrote in message > > > news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > > > > > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, Frank > > > > > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles in a > > > > > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. > > > > > > > > Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities of > > > reiki > > > > that people value the opinion of? > > > > > > Have you ever heard that there are exoteric and esoteric teachings, > > > both proceeding from exactly the same material? The exoteric > > > teaching is for the simple people who are not interested too much > > > in penetrating the mysteries of their existence but nevertheless > > > need something to cope with their lives. > > > The esoteric teaching are for the committed and truly spiritual > > > people. They are not secret but usually require a bit of an effort > > > to understand. > > > From an exoteric viewpoint, which is also a literal one, the statement > > > quoted does seem to be useless. From an esoteric standpoint it > > > is profound. > > > > > > DO NOT mix up the two!! Do not take something meant to be > > > exoteric as esoteric, or vice versa. You will be in deep trouble as > > > far as understanding is concerned. > > > > it goes on to say,"Instead of helping and healing, some of them would even > > create blockages in the > > long run. ** Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or worried, > > always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the > > Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or > > depressive at some point because of a presumed failure."** > > > > esoterically speaking, what message does this conceal? > > > > > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how > > pervasive > > > > the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly > > makes > > > > me sad to think people believe them. > > > > > > The misconception is yours. > > > > The authors believe that a "presumed failure" is inevitable and will cause > > frustration, cynicism, depression and even create blockages.Fortunately, > > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > > them.. > > > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > > Peter Reber > > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <38cff9fcf9f4fde329f9a27a1dec2deb@news.teranews.com> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:05:06 GMT Lines: 41 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14867 "Rich" wrote in message news:4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca... > When I challenged myself to start a running program I went to the public > library and got several books on running. These authors, all of them had > been running marathons for years, filled their books with what happens > if you start to run and expect everything to be rosy. They say things > like, "Distance runners are stubborn and stupid." "More than half of all > runners get injured." "There are principles to follow to be a successful > runner and they usually aren't followed." > As I develop to be somewhat of a runner, I am certainly struck by how > accurate these authors are. I don't look at what they say to be negative > but more of just what is so. When I try to shortcut my training it is > easier to get back on track, knowing that there is some understanding by > those who've been there. My two cents! > Cheers > Rich > Thanks for responding. i wouldn't be so adamant about this if i didn't know from experience what they will accomplish. i am quite certain now that they ( the authors) do not use the precepts as outlined. They *couldn't* and have to say what they wrote.. . .. *because it is a lie.* They go on to say,"If a student was to be stimulated to personal development through principles and texts, the content would have to be formulated in such a way that the meaning is complex and the individual messages only discovered through precise study,as well as the basic questioning of everyday thought patterns." Shroud it in mystery and sell it like you have special insight into the original author's logic . . .or have any personal experience at all with the healing magic of the precepts. Love is. . . . ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <405B3631.59758901@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca> <38cff9fcf9f4fde329f9a27a1dec2deb@news.teranews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:07:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1079719620 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:07:00 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:07:00 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14877 Whoa! See what is happening here? Are you suggesting that I am saying that we shouldn't take the worry, anger, etc. out of out lives? I am not. I have found a very effective way to work with these things. You do it your way. Don't make a religion out of it, please. You know the trouble that gets us into. ;) cheers Rich ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <405B4A25.BF7C121D@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca> <7c43c79aeef3e02c3dda1938835d0ab7@news.teranews.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 110 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:32:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1079724728 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:32:08 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:32:08 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14879 Thanks, Kevin. I am going to be working with a shaman! Since I was a kid, I told myself, "I can do it." "I am an athlete." "I can win." Had a wall of trophies to show for it. I am looking for a different experience with this one. Problem with precepts, there are too many variables around that fuzz up the results. Then you have to make 'claims' for the results. Oops! We already do that in every part of our lives! And don't forget the 'reasons why not'! Lord knows, there's enough of them! Nah, I'm in good shape over here! ;) Rich arthealer wrote: > > "Rich" wrote in message news:4059CF53.82E3F808@shaw.ca... > > When I challenged myself to start a running program I went to the public > > library and got several books on running. These authors, all of them had > > been running marathons for years, filled their books with what happens > > if you start to run and expect everything to be rosy. They say things > > like, "Distance runners are stubborn and stupid." "More than half of all > > runners get injured." "There are principles to follow to be a successful > > runner and they usually aren't followed." > > As I develop to be somewhat of a runner, I am certainly struck by how > > accurate these authors are. I don't look at what they say to be negative > > but more of just what is so. > > So when are you going to implement the precepts so you can compare what > these authors have to say with your *personal experience*?? > > Love is. . .. . knowing. > > >When I try to shortcut my training it is > > easier to get back on track, knowing that there is some understanding by > > those who've been there. My two cents! > > Cheers > > Rich > > > > arthealer wrote: > > > > > > "pr" wrote in message > > > news:4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > > > > > > > "arthealer" wrote in message > > > > news:f360bc432410959c3bd6317c3c4920d0@news.teranews.com... > > > > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how > > > pervasive > > > > > the misconception is spread and how very deeply it runs. . . .but > i'll > > > > take > > > > > a jab at it anyway. > > > > > > > > > > "Rich" wrote in message > > > > news:40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca... > > > > > > Here is a quote from "The Spirit of Reiki", by Walter Lubeck, > Frank > > > > > > Petter, and William Rand...."If we understand the life principles > in a > > > > > > literal manner, they cannot be translated into practical terms. > > > > > > > > > > Oh my gosh, who buys this crap and are these people authorities > of > > > > reiki > > > > > that people value the opinion of? > > > > > > > > Have you ever heard that there are exoteric and esoteric teachings, > > > > both proceeding from exactly the same material? The exoteric > > > > teaching is for the simple people who are not interested too much > > > > in penetrating the mysteries of their existence but nevertheless > > > > need something to cope with their lives. > > > > The esoteric teaching are for the committed and truly spiritual > > > > people. They are not secret but usually require a bit of an effort > > > > to understand. > > > > From an exoteric viewpoint, which is also a literal one, the statement > > > > quoted does seem to be useless. From an esoteric standpoint it > > > > is profound. > > > > > > > > DO NOT mix up the two!! Do not take something meant to be > > > > exoteric as esoteric, or vice versa. You will be in deep trouble as > > > > far as understanding is concerned. > > > > > > it goes on to say,"Instead of helping and healing, some of them would > even > > > create blockages in the > > > long run. ** Anyone who actually attempts to never be annoyed or > worried, > > > always work hard, be thankful and loving to others, wil end up as the > > > Great Hypocritical Suppresser or become frustrated and cynical or > > > depressive at some point because of a presumed failure."** > > > > > > esoterically speaking, what message does this conceal? > > > > > > > > Thanks for posting this Rich. . . it helps me to understand how > > > pervasive > > > > > the misconception is and how very deeply it runs. . . . but it truly > > > makes > > > > > me sad to think people believe them. > > > > > > > > The misconception is yours. > > > > > > The authors believe that a "presumed failure" is inevitable and will > cause > > > frustration, cynicism, depression and even create blockages.Fortunately, > > > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > > > them.. > > > > > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > > > Peter Reber > > > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:16:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.151.202 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1079857003 162.84.151.202 (Sun, 21 Mar 2004 03:16:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 03:16:43 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14915 > > The authors believe that a "presumed failure" is inevidible and will cause > frustration, cynicism, depression and even create blockages. they didnt say it was inevitable, but that it could cause blockages. for someone with my personality too stringent or literal an application can create a feeling of failure. that's the very reason i tell myself "i will not anger, i will not worry just for this moment." and then just let each moments add up to a day, until each day adds up to a week and so on. my tendency is to highlight my percieved failures rather than to congratulate myself for what i accomplish. if i am successful at keeping anger at bay 1 time in a day, but get angry three other times, that night i go to bed feeling like i failed and getting angry with myself. sure my own attitude is to blame, but the attitude isn't changing overnight, so i have to alter my approach so that my attitude can change a bit. i agree with what the authors said. Fortunately, > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > them.. > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:34:46 GMT Lines: 23 Message-ID: <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3fi.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.242) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1079872222 76642696 I 207.69.13.242 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3fi.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14920 On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:16:43 GMT, "gingerobyn" wrote: >myself for what i accomplish. if i am successful at keeping anger at bay 1 >time in a day, but get angry three other times, that night i go to bed >feeling like i failed and getting angry with myself. sure my own attitude is Just a little comment here: the object isn't to "keep anger at bay", ie to fight it, or repress it. That is the very thing the authors were warning about! Instead just try to notice when you start getting angry, observe it, and if you can, try to analyze what the anger is doing for or against you, and why the feeling of anger arose in the first place. If these observations make it possible, just let it go. If you can't let it go, then feel it and move through it, but do it while your awareness of the anger is in charge, not while the anger is in charge. Little steps. Hope that helps, Garry ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: The five commandments Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:54:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.251.218 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1079891670 162.83.251.218 (Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:54:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:54:30 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!feeder1.essentkabel.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14924 hi garry, yeah. thanks. i just used the wrong words because what you suggest is what i am trying to do. i've already suppressed enough anger thats manifested in my body as physical pain. "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 08:16:43 GMT, "gingerobyn" > wrote: > > >myself for what i accomplish. if i am successful at keeping anger at bay 1 > >time in a day, but get angry three other times, that night i go to bed > >feeling like i failed and getting angry with myself. sure my own attitude is > > Just a little comment here: the object isn't to "keep anger at bay", > ie to fight it, or repress it. That is the very thing the authors were > warning about! > > Instead just try to notice when you start getting angry, observe it, > and if you can, try to analyze what the anger is doing for or against > you, and why the feeling of anger arose in the first place. If these > observations make it possible, just let it go. If you can't let it go, > then feel it and move through it, but do it while your awareness of > the anger is in charge, not while the anger is in charge. Little > steps. > > Hope that helps, > > Garry > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:46:33 GMT Lines: 83 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!c03.atl99!chi1.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14928 ----- Original Message ----- From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:16 AM Subject: Re: The five commandments Hey ginger, sorry if this ended up to you personally or in your email. . . or even posted twice?. . . i'm not exactly sure what i did this morning but it didn't show up on the newsgroup. > > > > > The authors believe that a "presumed failure" is inevidible and will > cause > > frustration, cynicism, depression and even create blockages. > > they didnt say it was inevitable, but that it could cause blockages. for > someone with my personality too stringent or literal an application can > create a feeling of failure. i have considered what you are saying and realize that for some this may cause angst. The precepts used as a prayer and affirmation does *exacty* what it is suppose to do. . . . .so what you are feeling is appropriate. In turning around years and years of self loathing and feelings of victimization, the precepts bring up all of our misconceptions about who and what we are here. *They are meant to challenge our 'illness'*. .. our illness of spirit and mind. . . .the illness that creates physical illness. i wholeheartedly dissagree that putting into practice may cause blockages in some. While it may bring things to the forefront to be disolved with newly found love for ones self and others. . .what the authors had to say in that brief passage sounded discouraging to me and if people find it difficult to put into practice to begin with. . . . they may feel they are justified and look for an easier way. . . . but, there is no easy way. We hold on so tightly to our misconceptions, pain and our misery. >that's the very reason i tell myself "i will > not anger, i will not worry just for this moment." and then just let each > moments add up to a day, until each day adds up to a week and so on. my > tendency is to highlight my percieved failures rather than to congratulate > myself for what i accomplish. What you are doing is a mirical and it is wise. You are teaching yourself how to let go of old outmoded ways of living in this world. As you know, the moment is all we have and i believe we always have at hand in ea. present moment what we need. Congratulations ginger:) >if i am successful at keeping anger at bay 1 > time in a day, but get angry three other times, that night i go to bed > feeling like i failed and getting angry with myself. sure my own attitude >is to blame, but the attitude isn't changing overnight, so i have to alter my > approach so that my attitude can change a bit. i agree with what the >authors said. feel this ginger. . . . .what underlies the anger? i have found in my own angry little world that pain and hurt are always prerequisits to anger. When i begin to feel the defensiveness of anger coming on, right then i have a chance to acknoledge my pain . . . . and if i do, it never needs to be defended with anger. love is . . . . > Fortunately, > > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > > them.. > > > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > > Peter Reber > > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:45 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1079912741 76541092 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14930 (arthealer) wrote: > i have found in my own angry little world that pain and hurt are always > prerequisits to anger. When i begin to feel the defensiveness of anger > coming on, right then i have a chance to acknoledge my pain . . . . and > if i do, it never needs to be defended with anger. Lots of negative sentiments there, Kevin ... Self-analysis and introspection is all very well but we appear to have forgotten spontaneous joy and laughter ... ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:45:57 GMT Lines: 19 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.ipv6.iphh.net!iphh.net!news.shlink.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14932 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:qFk7c.3859$o76.680@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > hi garry, > yeah. thanks. i just used the wrong words because what you suggest is what i > am trying to do. i've already suppressed enough anger thats manifested in > my body as physical pain. Just got back from a long walk. While walking i realized that anger defends your pain, but when pain is suppressed, the pain will manifest itself physically and when the anger is either expressed or suppressed more damage yet is done to the body having never gotten to the pain. Therefore it is always best to express the original feeling . . . and a whole lot safer for everyone. love is . . . . .not being afraid to feel your life. ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:48 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1079912889 77176451 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14931 Oops ... that was half-finished and in my outbox .. Oh well .. what the hell? Stuart ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <014cf0ab51d3c9e952f52046ea52df1a@news.teranews.com> Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:58:27 GMT Lines: 35 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14933 "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040321234809.332B@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > > Oops ... that was half-finished and in my outbox .. > > Oh well .. what the hell? > > > (arthealer) wrote: > i have found in my own angry little world that pain and hurt are always > prerequisits to anger. When i begin to feel the defensiveness of anger > coming on, right then i have a chance to acknoledge my pain . . . . and > if i do, it never needs to be defended with anger. Lots of negative sentiments there, Kevin ... Self-analysis and introspection is all very well but we appear to have forgotten spontaneous joy and laughter ... > Stuart Thanks stuart for responding, i laugh plenty. . .believe me. Feeling your pain in the moment isn't negetive Stuart. It's a positive step. It is a step that intercepts anger. It isn't always easy to be honest with my feelings with others if i get hurt, but, i cannot do anger anymore. laughing is a healing thing and is wonderful . . .. but when you are putting the precepts into action in your life, it helps to have some tools to work with. love is . . . . .the right tool for the right job:) ps. i await the remainder of your post! ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <014cf0ab51d3c9e952f52046ea52df1a@news.teranews.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.2.124.91 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1079984447 76439205 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!80.2.124.91!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14937 (arthealer) wrote: Yes ... good to laugh ... > ps. i await the remainder of your post! Nothing earth-shattering ... just a musing that if we (try to) pursue the freedom option directly, the reasons for self-analysis and "working on self" simply disappear and the process becomes redundant ... But, of course, probably all irrelevant ... :) Stuart ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments Lines: 56 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:50:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.217.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1080003010 162.84.217.94 (Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:50:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:50:10 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14938 Just got back from a long walk. While walking i realized that anger defends > your pain, but when pain is suppressed, the pain will manifest itself > physically and when the anger is either expressed or suppressed more damage > yet is done to the body having never gotten to the pain. Therefore it is > always best to express the original feeling . . . and a whole lot safer for > everyone. > > love is . . . . .not being afraid to feel your life. i'm not sure what you are saying. i agree that the original feeling needs to be expressed, so as not to manifest in the body as ailments. i am not sure otherwise what you mean by some of what you wrote. in the case of expressing feelings, if you dont know you have them you don't know how to let them out. sometimes it takes having the experience of suppressing feelings(possibly for years), having them manifest as pains, ailments or general discomfort (which might be physical or emotional) in order to notice that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. then the person who has been suppressing emotions has a starting point to work from in order to discover the underlying emotions they didn't know they had. (it doesnt always work out so easily for everyone to just feel what they feel and let it all out, there are so many factors involved in how a persons emotional sense develops and is or isn't expressed). we all need something to open our eyes. then from the point of discovering there is an issue that needs to be addressed the person can work on releasing/transmuting the stored emotions in a productive way and in the meantime learn to become more aware of the new feelings and emotions as they occur and find a productive way to deal with those so no more negative emotions are suppressed. expressing emotions (particularly negative ones) might not feel safe to many people. in some cases it hasn't been safe for people to express their emotions, as children some may be invalidated, chastised, or even physically hurt because they tried to express emotions that the adults around them weren't comfortable with. for such people it takes alot to learn that expressing emotions is a safe thing to do. > >> > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments Lines: 83 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 00:59:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.217.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1080003595 162.84.217.94 (Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:59:55 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:59:55 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14939 > > i have considered what you are saying and realize that for some this may > cause angst. The precepts used as a prayer and affirmation does *exacty* > what it is suppose to do. . . . .so what you are feeling is appropriate. In > turning around years and years of self loathing and feelings of > victimization, the precepts bring up all of > our misconceptions about who and what we are here. > *They are meant to challenge our 'illness'*. .. our illness of spirit and > mind. . . .the illness that creates physical illness. i wholeheartedly > dissagree that putting into practice may cause > blockages in some. While it may bring things to the forefront to be disolved > with newly found love for ones self and others. . .what the authors had to > say in that brief passage sounded discouraging to me and if people find it > difficult to put into practice to begin with. . . . they may feel they are > justified and look for an easier way. . . . but, there is no easy way. We > hold on so tightly to our misconceptions, pain and our misery. **that makes perfect sense, thanks for putting it in that perspective. i think that really makes a lot of sense. . . > > >that's the very reason i tell myself "i will > > not anger, i will not worry just for this moment." and then just let each > > moments add up to a day, until each day adds up to a week and so on. my > > tendency is to highlight my percieved failures rather than to congratulate > > myself for what i accomplish. > > What you are doing is a mirical and it is wise. You are teaching yourself > how to let go of old outmoded ways of living in this world. As you know, the > moment is all we have and i believe we always have at hand in ea. present > moment what we need. Congratulations ginger:) **don't congratulate me yet! i'm struggling! well congratulate me for trying i guess. thanks. > > >if i am successful at keeping anger at bay 1 > > time in a day, but get angry three other times, that night i go to bed > > feeling like i failed and getting angry with myself. sure my own attitude > >is to blame, but the attitude isn't changing overnight, so i have to alter > my > > approach so that my attitude can change a bit. i agree with what the > >authors said. > > feel this ginger. . . . .what underlies the anger? > i have found in my own angry little world that pain and hurt are always > prerequisits to anger. When i begin to feel the defensiveness of anger > coming on, right then i have a chance to acknoledge my pain . . . . and if i > do, it never needs to be defended with anger. **yeah. that is something to remember. thanks. > > love is . . . . > > > > > Fortunately, > > > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > > > them.. > > > > > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > > > Peter Reber > > > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <17488305d8d8414d8fca19c7a13f4091@news.teranews.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 01:24:19 GMT Lines: 102 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14940 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:f_L7c.1442$Uh5.696@nwrdny01.gnilink.net... > > > > > > i have considered what you are saying and realize that for some this may > > cause angst. The precepts used as a prayer and affirmation does *exacty* > > what it is suppose to do. . . . .so what you are feeling is appropriate. > In > > turning around years and years of self loathing and feelings of > > victimization, the precepts bring up all of > > our misconceptions about who and what we are here. > > *They are meant to challenge our 'illness'*. .. our illness of spirit and > > mind. . . .the illness that creates physical illness. i wholeheartedly > > dissagree that putting into practice may cause > > blockages in some. While it may bring things to the forefront to be > disolved > > with newly found love for ones self and others. . .what the authors had to > > say in that brief passage sounded discouraging to me and if people find it > > difficult to put into practice to begin with. . . . they may feel they are > > justified and look for an easier way. . . . but, there is no easy way. We > > hold on so tightly to our misconceptions, pain and our misery. > > **that makes perfect sense, thanks for putting it in that perspective. i > think that really makes a lot of sense. . . > > > > >that's the very reason i tell myself "i will > > > not anger, i will not worry just for this moment." and then just let > each > > > moments add up to a day, until each day adds up to a week and so on. my > > > tendency is to highlight my percieved failures rather than to > congratulate > > > myself for what i accomplish. > > > > What you are doing is a mirical and it is wise. You are teaching yourself > > how to let go of old outmoded ways of living in this world. As you know, > the > > moment is all we have and i believe we always have at hand in ea. present > > moment what we need. Congratulations ginger:) > > **don't congratulate me yet! i'm struggling! well congratulate me for > trying i guess. thanks. I congratulate you for putting it in motion. You are doing way more than trying.. .. sometimes you succeed, and each time you do you set up a cycle. . . the same as you do if you do not. > > >if i am successful at keeping anger at bay 1 > > > time in a day, but get angry three other times, that night i go to bed > > > feeling like i failed and getting angry with myself. sure my own > attitude > > >is to blame, but the attitude isn't changing overnight, so i have to > alter > > my > > > approach so that my attitude can change a bit. i agree with what the > > >authors said. > > > > feel this ginger. . . . .what underlies the anger? > > i have found in my own angry little world that pain and hurt are always > > prerequisits to anger. When i begin to feel the defensiveness of anger > > coming on, right then i have a chance to acknoledge my pain . . . . and if > i > > do, it never needs to be defended with anger. > > **yeah. that is something to remember. thanks. > > > > love is . . . . > > > > > > > > > Fortunately, > > > > Usui didn't have access to the authors wisdom and vision when he wrote > > > > them.. > > > > > > > > > Namu Amida Butsu > > > > > Peter Reber > > > > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:38:09 GMT Lines: 116 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> <6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14952 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > in the case of expressing feelings, if you dont know you have them you don't > know > how to let them out. Of course you know you have them. It takes much energy to supress something. . . . and if you let down your gaurd even for a moment it will find a way to be expressed. It's not like you suppress something once and it is done. Of course you know you have them. All it takes is an inkling of desire to let them come forth.Your body is way more honest than your mind. >sometimes it takes having the experience of suppressing > feelings(possibly for years), having them manifest as pains, ailments or > general > discomfort (which might be physical or emotional) in order to notice that > there is > a problem that needs to be addressed. It has always been a problem. . . .. .but people tend to adopt a 'crises managment' technique for life. When the pain of supressing outweighs the pain of having to feel your life, you will begin to let it go. >then the person who has been > suppressing > emotions has a starting point to work from in order to discover the > underlying > emotions they didn't know they had. Suppression is about lieing to yourself. It is about dishonering your boundries. It is about putting your worth in the world below anothers. It is painfull to realize this. It is painfull to allow ourselves to be vulnerable. It becomes a way of life. . . .and a waste of life. . . .*your life.* > (it doesnt always work out so easily for > everyone to just feel what they feel and let it all out, there are so many > factors > involved in how a persons emotional sense develops and is or isn't > expressed). Expressing your true feelings is the easy part. You are the only one on the planet that can do it. It is why you have them. They help you navigate here. When you don't trust or allow your own navigational system to work here. . .you cannot know where you stand or why you stand for something. > we all need something to open our eyes. We teach ourselves that "that something" needed must be painfull and shocking, when it is the pain and shock that drives us to place bushel baskets over our light. What you need isn't more pain. What you need is attempting to be heard in your life by someone that cares. . .. . what are *you* doing for the rest of your life? > then from the point of discovering > there > is an issue that needs to be addressed the person can work on > releasing/transmuting the stored emotions in a productive way and in the > meantime learn to become more aware of the new feelings and emotions as they > occur and find a productive way to deal with those so no more negative > emotions The only "emotion" i see as negitive is anger. Anger keeps the issue suppressed. . .. and the issue *is* in need of expression. The anger is at yourself for making the emotions hide in your body for years. We want to blame others for making us "go away" emotionally because we percieve this as an unsafe world. It is safe now that you can be the "adult" in the situation. > are suppressed. expressing emotions (particularly negative ones) might not > feel > safe to many people. in some cases it hasn't been safe for people to express > their > emotions, as children some may be invalidated, chastised, or even physically > hurt > because they tried to express emotions that the adults around them weren't > comfortable with. This sounds logical and is true to some degree, however, when one desides to cut themselves off emotionally from others, some do the cutting on them selves . .. not even allowing themselves to feel any more; not only because it wasn't safe but because they felt they were wrong and ugly inside for having these feelings to begin with. This is why the precepts are so helpful and why it is difficult to participate in them in the beginning. . . . .because we run headlong into our "ugly and wrong" feelings about ourselves and life in general. > for such people it takes alot to learn that expressing > emotions is > a safe thing to do. > For such people . . . .they really have no other options knowing what needs to be done.. . . so might as well enjoy the ride:) Love is. . . > >> > > > > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> <6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <2Y38c.3875$Uh5.818@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 23:42:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.182.64 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1080085374 162.84.182.64 (Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:42:54 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:42:54 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!dedekind.zen.co.uk!zen.net.uk!demorgan.zen.co.uk!news2.euro.net!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14954 i get and agree with alot of what you are saying and it makes sense but i do believe it is perfectly possible for a person not to have conscious awareness of certain emotions, until of course they do become aware. for years i didn't know i had alot of anger stored inside me. i was not aware and i was not consciously suppressing it. i am also not saying that pain is required for a person to make progress or learn lessons in their life but for me pain and crisis were both catalysts that put me on the path i am on and that have helped me arrive in a place where i could make more progress in my development. i dont think there is anything wrong with that. that is the way it had to be for me. it doesnt mean that the crisis management approach is the only approach i will ever take. you learn from the crisis and move into a different way of being because of the lessons you learned so that you won't repeat the same situations in the future. ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 03:14:04 GMT Lines: 26 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> <6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com> <2Y38c.3875$Uh5.818@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!HSNX.atgi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14957 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:2Y38c.3875$Uh5.818@nwrdny01.gnilink.net... > i get and agree with alot of what you are saying and it makes sense but i do > believe it is perfectly possible for a person not to have conscious > awareness of certain emotions, until of course they do become aware. for > years i didn't know i had alot of anger stored inside me. i was not aware > and i was not consciously suppressing it. i am also not saying that pain is > required for a person to make progress or learn lessons in their life but > for me pain and crisis were both catalysts that put me on the path i am on > and that have helped me arrive in a place where i could make more progress > in my development. i dont think there is anything wrong with that. that is > the way it had to be for me. it doesnt mean that the crisis management > approach is the only approach i will ever take. you learn from the crisis > and move into a different way of being because of the lessons you learned so > that you won't repeat the same situations in the future. > i am glad you are at a place you can talk about it with such awareness. Thank you ginger love is. . . . ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> <6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 03:16:07 +0200 Lines: 86 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-135.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40625c81.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 25 Mar 2004 06:13:53 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-135.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-135.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14963 "arthealer" wrote in message news:9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com... > > "gingerobyn" wrote in message > news:6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > > > in the case of expressing feelings, if you dont know you have them you > > don't know how to let them out. > > Of course you know you have them. It takes much energy to supress > something. . . . and if you let down your gaurd even for a moment it will > find a way to be expressed. It's not like you suppress something once and it > is done. Of course you know you have them. All it takes is an inkling of > desire to let them come forth.Your body is way more honest than your mind. Yes and no. There is the argument based on logic that if we suppress something then there must be a part of the mind that knows what needs to suppressed. It does take energy to suppress something but that does not mean that the person is aware of it. Suppression can also become automatic through the force of habit which means that we do not have to be on guard anymore. Only when this happens can we talk of sucessful suppression. In a way we could say that we are even suppressing the fact that we are suppressing. [snip ..] > Suppression is about lieing to yourself. It is about dishonering your > boundries. I disagree with this. You can only be said to lie about something if you are aware of the truth. But the point of suppression is to prevent this awareness. > It is about putting your worth in the world below anothers. It is > painfull to realize this. It is dangerous to base your approach on comparisons with others. > It becomes a way of life. . . .and a waste of life. . . .*your > life.* This sounds like an ideological statement. Who is to say when a life is wasted? How should life be? I am sure that there are many people who successfully suppressed all kind of things and whose life cannot be called "wasted" in any way. > Expressing your true feelings is the easy part. You are the only one on the > planet that can do it. > It is why you have them. They help you navigate here. When you don't trust > or allow your own navigational system to work here. . .you cannot know where > you stand or why you stand for something. This is the sort of thing dished out as truth. However, I am not aware of any spiritual system that works with emotions and feelings as a means to "salvation". To me it looks that they have an important, but limited, application. > > we all need something to open our eyes. to continue my point, all spiritual systems seem to work with either "seeing" or "hearing". > What you need is attempting to be heard in your life by > someone that cares. . .. . True, and where do you find such people? > The only "emotion" i see as negitive is anger. Anger keeps the issue > suppressed. . .. and the issue *is* in need of expression. Singling out one particular emotion as the only one being negative looks to me like a dangerous approach. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <8b71786416999d0d76a10d7504fa3628@news.teranews.com> Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:07:35 GMT Lines: 138 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <134511f5f7070bce2a8a5f9ed50996dd@news.teranews.com> <40584E04.C789BAC@shaw.ca> <4059ad86.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <145f74be99d9020e3e7e5d150f701317@news.teranews.com> <405d89ce.1875564@news.Individual.NET> <0581eb1e6892270a6d1c3a86f4fa0f3b@news.teranews.com> <6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> <9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com> <40625c81.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14965 "pr" wrote in message news:40625c81.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "arthealer" wrote in message > news:9babad0e25b6a4d852b83c359601878a@news.teranews.com... > > > > "gingerobyn" wrote in message > > news:6RL7c.906$fg3.779@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > > > > > in the case of expressing feelings, if you dont know you have them you > > > don't know how to let them out. > > > > Of course you know you have them. It takes much energy to supress > > something. . . . and if you let down your gaurd even for a moment it will > > find a way to be expressed. It's not like you suppress something once and > it > > is done. Of course you know you have them. All it takes is an inkling of > > desire to let them come forth.Your body is way more honest than your mind. > > Yes and no. There is the argument based on logic that if > we suppress something then there must be a part of the > mind that knows what needs to suppressed. > It does take energy to suppress something but that does > not mean that the person is aware of it. There is awareness with suppression because it is painfull to suppress something. > Suppression can also become automatic through the > force of habit which means that we do not have to be > on guard anymore. . .. . .and pain becomes habitual as well. . .. and as i have mentioned, pain if not expressed as such will manifest as anger and impatience. >Only when this happens can we talk > of sucessful suppression. In a way we could say that > we are even suppressing the fact that we are suppressing. What you are saying has truth to it and sounds logical but the suppressor is the hurt one and the suppressee. . . . .meaning we become the victim of our selves. . . . we do hide truth from ourselves because it hurts.. . . .but it is there for us to know at any point we have a desire to know. . .. . we don't remain victims of ourselves against our own will to know. > [snip ..] > > > Suppression is about lieing to yourself. It is about dishonering your > > boundries. > > I disagree with this. You can only be said to lie about something if > you are aware of the truth. But the point of suppression is to > prevent this awareness. > Being awareness of the truth is *why* a thing got suppressed to begin with. The point of the suppression is not to prevent this awareness. . .but rather to prevent feeling it again. > > It is about putting your worth in the world below anothers. It is > > painfull to realize this. > > It is dangerous to base your approach on comparisons with others. Yet, we do it all the time. . . > > > It becomes a way of life. . . .and a waste of life. . . .*your > > life.* > > This sounds like an ideological statement. Who is to say when > a life is wasted? How should life be? I am sure that there are > many people who successfully suppressed all kind of things > and whose life cannot be called "wasted" in any way. When one ignores a part of ones experience, i think it is wastefull. > > Expressing your true feelings is the easy part. You are the only one on > the > > planet that can do it. > > It is why you have them. They help you navigate here. When you don't trust > > or allow your own navigational system to work here. . .you cannot know > where > > you stand or why you stand for something. > > This is the sort of thing dished out as truth. However, I am not > aware of any spiritual system that works with emotions and feelings > as a means to "salvation". To me it looks that they have an important, > but limited, application. pr wrote: " It is dangerous to base your approach on comparisons with others." Does your statement enclude spiritual systems? Your lack of awareness of what is available to you is what is limiting. > > > we all need something to open our eyes. > > to continue my point, all spiritual systems seem to work > with either "seeing" or "hearing". > unfortunately we can't see or hear our feelings. . . .those pesky things that we suppress when they appear not to be appropriate > > What you need is attempting to be heard in your life by > > someone that cares. . .. . > > True, and where do you find such people? peter, my point was that *she* could be that person. . . .. she is the only person that can care enough to want to know these things. > > The only "emotion" i see as negitive is anger. Anger keeps the issue > > suppressed. . .. and the issue *is* in need of expression. > > Singling out one particular emotion as the only one being > negative looks to me like a dangerous approach. perhaps, but it is more dangerous not to single it out. love is . .. > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### From: "Deb" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: The five commandments Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 03:48:45 -0800 Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <014cf0ab51d3c9e952f52046ea52df1a@news.teranews.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ap-018watacop0039.dialsprint.net (63.191.240.39) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1080300847 77943890 I 63.191.240.39 ([120246]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!sdn-ap-018watacop0039.dialsprint.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14977 Thank you, Stuart- Your words rang a bell in my brain. ;> I realize I have been far too involved in analyzing my life and working to 'fix' it recently. Now its time to BE!! Just for today... Deb -- (in Oregon, the pacific northWET) ;> > > Nothing earth-shattering ... just a musing that if > we (try to) pursue the freedom option directly, the > reasons for self-analysis and "working on self" simply > disappear and the process becomes redundant ... > > But, of course, probably all irrelevant ... :) > > Stuart > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <7b32befe982724b20b41fccddb7822f4@news.teranews.com> Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:01:33 GMT Lines: 28 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <014cf0ab51d3c9e952f52046ea52df1a@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: The five commandments X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14978 "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040322194046.332C@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (arthealer) wrote: > > Yes ... good to laugh ... > > > ps. i await the remainder of your post! > > Nothing earth-shattering ... just a musing that if > we (try to) pursue the freedom option directly, the > reasons for self-analysis and "working on self" simply > disappear and the process becomes redundant ... > > But, of course, probably all irrelevant ... :) > > Stuart i'm certain this will be a totally predictible post coming from me in response to the above, but here goes. . .. . . . . . . . . . . . ." what?" Love is. . . .