From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:06:33 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0rb.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.107) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077887018 53138310 I 207.69.3.107 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0rb.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14157 I guess I'm a bit "behind the times", but I ignored all the hoopla when the Reiki Sourcebook, by Bronwen and Frans Stiene, came out because I figured it was just another Reiki book (it's hard to find impressive Reiki books). Well, I was in the bookstore last weekend and just happened to see a copy on the shelf and picked it up and started leafing through it. Talk about encyclopedia of Reiki! Especially Reiki history. If I had to recommend just one book on Reiki, this would be it. There are some interesting things in it that I was not aware of, though, even after having read AHR and all the good websites that we recommend for a couple of years. For instance, I'm reading about the symbols and mantras (or kotodama or jumon or whatever) and I had no idea that the 1st symbol relates to earth or in or yin energy and the 2nd symbol to heaven or yo or yang energy. None of my teachers ever even suggested such a thing, much less explained the ramifications of this concept. It was always just "power" this and "mental/emotional" that, and how do we use them to manifest (read "wishcraft") whatever our selfish, little-spoiled-children hearts desire. Anyone care to share their experiences/training with the care and feeding of the symbols and mantras? Love and Light, Garry ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:55:31 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 29 Message-ID: <403F6873.85FB7EC4@imbris.com> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm844-38.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14163 Garry Williams wrote: > > I guess I'm a bit "behind the times", but I ignored all the hoopla > when the Reiki Sourcebook, by Bronwen and Frans Stiene, came out > because I figured it was just another Reiki book (it's hard to find > impressive Reiki books). Well, I was in the bookstore last weekend and > just happened to see a copy on the shelf and picked it up and started > leafing through it. Talk about encyclopedia of Reiki! Especially Reiki > history. If I had to recommend just one book on Reiki, this would be > it. > > There are some interesting things in it that I was not aware of, > though, even after having read AHR and all the good websites that we > recommend for a couple of years. For instance, I'm reading about the > symbols and mantras (or kotodama or jumon or whatever) and I had no > idea that the 1st symbol relates to earth or in or yin energy and the > 2nd symbol to heaven or yo or yang energy. None of my teachers ever > even suggested such a thing, much less explained the ramifications of > this concept. It was always just "power" this and "mental/emotional" > that, and how do we use them to manifest (read "wishcraft") whatever > our selfish, little-spoiled-children hearts desire. > > Anyone care to share their experiences/training with the care and > feeding of the symbols and mantras? And the authors have a website at http://www.reiki.net.au/ for anyone who wants to look at their ideas. sue ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:55:35 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-076.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14164 On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 13:06:33 GMT, gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote: > For instance, I'm reading about the >symbols and mantras (or kotodama or jumon or whatever) and I had no >idea that the 1st symbol relates to earth or in or yin energy and the >2nd symbol to heaven or yo or yang energy. None of my teachers ever >even suggested such a thing, much less explained the ramifications of >this concept. It was always just "power" this and "mental/emotional" >that, and how do we use them to manifest (read "wishcraft") whatever >our selfish, little-spoiled-children hearts desire. > >Anyone care to share their experiences/training with the care and >feeding of the symbols and mantras? > Hey Garry, I was not taught or trained personally along these lines by a Reiki teacher. But after I'd been into Reiki for eight months or a year or something, I ordered Doi's book. (Did that because our Judy Rigby had e-mailed me Doi's instructions for the hatsureiho practice -- thank you, Judy!) Anyways, Doi does touch on this a bit in his discussion of the symbols in relation to chakras, applications, etc. He talks about kotodama, though I do not believe his discussion is detailed enough for the Westerner -- unless the individual has had previous experience with certain types of meditation used in yoga or the like. I believe Nitya has explanations and instructions on *some* aspects of these usages and practices in his site's section on 'Japanese Techniques' (title may be a bit different from that, but it's close). Namaste, montane ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:54 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077911684 55182327 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14167 (Garry Williams) wrote: > Reiki Sourcebook, by Bronwen and Frans Stiene Never heard of it ... thanks for the pointer ... > I had no idea that the 1st symbol relates to earth or in or > yin energy > Anyone care to share their experiences/training with the care and > feeding of the symbols and mantras? Well I was taught that the 1st symbol represented an intent to "bring the Power here" as in drawing down ... later thoughts gave me the spiral as being representative of the major chakras (as the spiral crosses the central line seven times) ... just a thought .. :) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 20:35 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <403F6873.85FB7EC4@imbris.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077914137 54825163 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14169 (suzee) wrote: > And the authors have a website at http://www.reiki.net.au/ for anyone > who wants to look at their ideas. Excellent site ... thx Sue .. Stuart ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:24:52 GMT Lines: 42 Message-ID: <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka30c.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.12) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077924115 55676691 I 207.69.12.12 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka30c.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14177 On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:54 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: >Well I was taught that the 1st symbol represented an intent to "bring >the Power here" as in drawing down ... later thoughts gave me the >spiral as being representative of the major chakras (as the spiral >crosses the central line seven times) ... just a thought .. :) And a good one, too! My 2nd degree teacher did point out the 7 crossings to us and related it to the 7 chakras, and I was aware of the "put the Power here" usage, too. But she thought of all of Reiki as being an Earth based energy, and didn't tell me anything about Heaven energy or the symbols being connected to a specific energy, just specific applications of the energy being associated with specific symbols. I hardly ever draw the symbols any more, unless I am specifically doing a Western style attunement, because after hanging around this crowd and hearing how intent was the important thing, I didn't really see how the symbol would matter. Also, although my 2nd degree teacher did insist we use the symbols, she also always said that intent was the most important part. So now I mostly just use connection and intent. But the Reiki Sourcebook explains that in the Japanese systems that it is very important to understand one aspect of the energy before moving on to the next, ie, understanding the energy associated with the 1st symbol before moving on to the 2nd symbol, for instance. It mentions that Hiroshi Doi said that the symbols and kotodama are like training wheels, and that when one reaches a certain degree of proficiency, one should discard them, but by the same token, one should not discard them too early. I wonder what, if anything, we have missed out on by not working much with the symbols or kotodama, or by working with them in the Western fashion instead of the Japanese fashion? OTOH, the Japanese associations of Focus, Harmony and Connection (or is it Unity?) with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd symbols respectively intuitively seems to form a natural progression for someone who is working on their spiritual development. Are we missing anything in our Western systems? Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:27:34 GMT Lines: 36 Message-ID: <403fd1ce.2432305@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka30c.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.12) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077924277 55676691 I 207.69.12.12 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka30c.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14178 On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:55:35 -0800, montane wrote: >I was not taught or trained personally along these lines by a >Reiki teacher. But after I'd been into Reiki for eight months or >a year or something, I ordered Doi's book. (Did that because our >Judy Rigby had e-mailed me Doi's instructions for the hatsureiho >practice -- thank you, Judy!) Hi Joel! I never did manage to force myself all the way through Doi's book, because of the poor translation/editing job. >Anyways, Doi does touch on this a bit in his discussion of the >symbols in relation to chakras, applications, etc. He talks about >kotodama, though I do not believe his discussion is detailed >enough for the Westerner -- unless the individual has had >previous experience with certain types of meditation used in yoga >or the like. Thanks, I'll have to dig it out again and have another stab at it. >I believe Nitya has explanations and instructions on *some* >aspects of these usages and practices in his site's section on >'Japanese Techniques' (title may be a bit different from that, >but it's close). It's been a while since I've visited Nitya's site, but will check that out again, too. In the meantime, if you would, please, read my reply to Stu and let us know what you think. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077925980 55454026 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14179 I think it was Dave King who told me over 5 years ago that DKM is in common use in Japan as a protection symbol in that before entering a building to do some task or interview or whatever, a large DKM would be visualised and walked through, donned as a cloak ... Time for you to get off your McDonalds ass and do some physicals, Garry ... Stand up, centre, do a big CKR mudra and walk into it ... Repeat ad infinitum or as long as you like .. at what point do you feel the hairs on the back of your neck (or palms ROFLOL) stand up? Stuart ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 11:38:13 GMT Lines: 73 Message-ID: <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> References: <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3ae.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.78) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077968115 56900352 I 207.69.13.78 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3ae.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14184 On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: > >I think it was Dave King who told me over 5 years ago >that DKM is in common use in Japan as a protection symbol Define "common" use. :-) I gather that the vast majority of people in Japan, assuming they've heard of Reiki at all, think of it as some MLM scam, thanks to the Western import versions. The homegrown varieties, e.g. URRG, lay low and are by invitation only, no? >in that before entering a building to do some task or >interview or whatever, a large DKM would be visualised and >walked through, donned as a cloak ... Interesting in that in at least one attunement set I'm aware of, it is necessary for the Master/Teacher to step into the DKM before performing the rest of the attunement ritual. >Time for you to get off your McDonalds ass and do some >physicals, Garry ... The sad part is I haven't even been to a McDonalds in years, yet I still have MickyD ass syndrome. =:o And I will pay for it dearly when I see my trainer at the gym today. Three weeks ago he nearly killed me. I was crying for days afterward. Then, by sheer "coincidence", I had two taiji seminars on consecutive weekends, so was "unable" to have my regularly scheduled training session. Alas, no more excuses this week. What really bothers me is that this guy used to be a marine and takes particular pleasure in whipping us momma's-boy-civilian-wimps into shape. >Stand up, centre, do a big CKR mudra and walk into it ... > >Repeat ad infinitum or as long as you like .. at what point >do you feel the hairs on the back of your neck (or palms ROFLOL) >stand up? The hairs on my palms can't stand up because they're being pressed flat by...oh, nevermind. I'll give it a go this weekend (assuming I can still stand up after today's workout), but honestly, I get more reaction out of just intending, rather than working with the symbols. Since y'all disillusioned me when I was fresh out of the Reiki Shake 'n' Bake box by explaining that the power was in the intent and not in the symbol, I've never gotten anything much out of the symbol. Do you, personally, feel a difference in the energy when using SHK instead of CKR? To me all the symbols "feel" the same, i.e. they feel like the letters in this message. And just to raise the ante on our discussion, the RS mentions also that each of the symbols has its Buddha associated with it, by the Japanese at least. So, are you calling on the energies of a specific Buddha when you do your CKR? Is the non-religious practice of Reiki suddenly become very specifically religious? Does the fact that you get a physical reaction with your CKR physical proof that the Buddha Daiseishi Bosatsu has answered your call? Gee-golly-whillikers! Why is PR so silent in this thread? I would think he would be glad to have this opportunity to jump out of his "let's get out of this rut" rut. ;-) Love and Light, Garry P.S. Any preventative Reiki that anyone cares to send for my post-workout aches and pains will be highly appreciated. ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 12:34 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 90 Message-ID: References: <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077971658 56106202 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14186 (Garry Williams) wrote: > Define "common" use. :-) OK ... "occasional" ... ;) It seems that the symbol was always there in folklore and appropriated by Usui-san to best illustrate his concept .. > I gather that the vast majority of people in > Japan, assuming they've heard of Reiki at all, think of it as some MLM > scam, thanks to the Western import versions. The homegrown varieties, > e.g. URRG, lay low and are by invitation only, no? Agree with that ... say "Reiki" to the man on the bullet train and he'll most likely give you a quizzical look and ask "Why is this man calling me a 'ghost'?" .. > Interesting in that in at least one attunement set I'm aware of, it is > necessary for the Master/Teacher to step into the DKM before > performing the rest of the attunement ritual. Perhaps representative again of self-protection (of taking on attunees' own issues) .. > >Time for you to get off your McDonalds ass and do some > >physicals, Garry ... > > The sad part is I haven't even been to a McDonalds in years I haven't been to a McDonalds full stop, period, end of sentence. > yet I still have MickyD ass syndrome. =:o That'll be Wendy's donuts ... ;) > And I will pay for it dearly when I see my trainer at the gym today. > What really bothers me is that this guy used > to be a marine and takes particular pleasure in whipping us > momma's-boy-civilian-wimps into shape. "It's for your own good, Garry" > but honestly, I get more reaction out of just > intending, rather than working with the symbols. Since y'all > disillusioned me when I was fresh out of the Reiki Shake 'n' Bake box > by explaining that the power was in the intent and not in the symbol, > I've never gotten anything much out of the symbol. Sorry to disillusion you, we spoke the truth ... but there's nothing wrong in going back to basics to get a feel for how it was when you were new .. > Do you, personally, feel a difference in the energy when using SHK > instead of CKR? Yes, because my intent is different .. > To me all the symbols "feel" the same, i.e. they feel > like the letters in this message. So forget what we said, go back to your original training and re-enact it ... if only to make an objective comparison .. > And just to raise the ante on our discussion, the RS mentions also > that each of the symbols has its Buddha associated with it, by the > Japanese at least. So, are you calling on the energies of a specific > Buddha when you do your CKR? Is the non-religious practice of Reiki > suddenly become very specifically religious? Does the fact that you > get a physical reaction with your CKR physical proof that the Buddha > Daiseishi Bosatsu has answered your call? Nope ... "external" entities don't concern me .. I'm being metaphysical .. > Gee-golly-whillikers! Why is PR so silent in this thread? I would > think he would be glad to have this opportunity to jump out of his > "let's get out of this rut" rut. ;-) > P.S. Any preventative Reiki that anyone cares to send for my > post-workout aches and pains will be highly appreciated. "It's for your own good, Garry" OK then ... ROTW .. ;) Stuart ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:28:19 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 15 Message-ID: <40409773.6246F323@imbris.com> References: <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm846-00.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14188 Stuart Vernon wrote: > > (Garry Williams) wrote: > > The sad part is I haven't even been to a McDonalds in years > > I haven't been to a McDonalds full stop, period, end of sentence. > > > yet I still have MickyD ass syndrome. =:o > > That'll be Wendy's donuts ... ;) They don't have donuts... that'll be Krispy Kreme. ;) sue ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:43:06 +0200 Lines: 104 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-115.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 28 Feb 2004 15:45:34 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-115.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-115.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14189 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET... > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:54 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk > (Stuart Vernon) wrote: > > >Well I was taught that the 1st symbol represented an intent to "bring > >the Power here" as in drawing down ... later thoughts gave me the > >spiral as being representative of the major chakras (as the spiral > >crosses the central line seven times) ... just a thought .. :) > > And a good one, too! My 2nd degree teacher did point out the 7 > crossings to us and related it to the 7 chakras, and I was aware of > the "put the Power here" usage, too. For the Japanese, the Hara, Tandien or Tanden is the center of a human being. I would expect that a symbol would therefore begin, end, or have its focal point corresponding to this. Looking at CKR it cannot be be "dropped down" far enough to match the intersections with the chakras. If you ask me, to mix the chakra theory which is of Indian origin with Japanese symbolism is really a bit silly. I find these attempts to link one system with another one, no matter how contrived or not it may appear, is a reflection of our own unhappiness, our doubts, our insecurities with a particular system. Though I may be wrong, you don't find such needs in traditional Christian, Muslim, or Jewish circles. For them, the chosen system is good enough and does not need corroboration or support from other quarters. > But she thought of all of Reiki > as being an Earth based energy, and didn't tell me anything about > Heaven energy or the symbols being connected to a specific energy, > just specific applications of the energy being associated with > specific symbols. Isn't heaven and earth the same thing? > I hardly ever draw the symbols any more, unless I am specifically > doing a Western style attunement, because after hanging around this > crowd and hearing how intent was the important thing, I didn't really > see how the symbol would matter. So you don't see how the symbol would matter? (sorry to sound sarcastic). So you drop it because what you think is more important than what the original and subsequent teachers found useful, powerful and appropriate? How did you arrive at this decision? Was it a sort of spur of a moment thing or only arrived at after long soul-searching? Your comment about hanging around this crowd and hearing what they thought does not give me the impression that it was the latter. >Also, although my 2nd degree teacher > did insist we use the symbols, she also always said that intent was > the most important part. So now I mostly just use connection and > intent. But the Reiki Sourcebook explains that in the Japanese systems > that it is very important to understand one aspect of the energy > before moving on to the next, ie, understanding the energy associated > with the 1st symbol before moving on to the 2nd symbol, for instance. Would the same not also apply to the symbols, that is important to understand what they represent and their function before they are discarded? > It mentions that Hiroshi Doi said that the symbols and kotodama are > like training wheels, and that when one reaches a certain degree of > proficiency, one should discard them, but by the same token, one > should not discard them too early. I wonder what, if anything, we have > missed out on by not working much with the symbols or kotodama, or by > working with them in the Western fashion instead of the Japanese > fashion? I think we are missing a hell of a lot. For example the opportunity to be part of a system of healing, which IMO includes respecting, honoring and using the symbolic content. Or the chance to "abandon" yourself, to surrender to something else, something greater than us. >OTOH, the Japanese associations of Focus, Harmony and > Connection (or is it Unity?) with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd symbols > respectively intuitively seems to form a natural progression for > someone who is working on their spiritual development. Are we missing > anything in our Western systems? Yes, devotion, surrender, admiration, a sense of awe, a true sense of oneness, patience, persistence .... But we have a problem here, being devoted to Universal Energy, surrendering to Universal Energy, admiring Universal Energy just does not have the same ring to it compared to using the same things relating to a general or even unnamed God. These things leave us with gaping holes in our being which we try to fill by including more and more stuff, sort of annexing form other systems what looks useful - only to repeat the process. This will go on until we see that our Western approach is fundamentally flawed and proceed from a wrong premise. How regrettable. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:07 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077984449 57073162 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14190 (pr) wrote: > If you ask me, to mix the chakra theory which is of Indian origin > with Japanese symbolism is really a bit silly. CKR is Japanese symbolism? Run that one by me again ... > I find these attempts > to link one system with another one, no matter how contrived or > not it may appear, is a reflection of our own unhappiness, our > doubts, our insecurities with a particular system. > Though I may be wrong, you don't find such needs in traditional > Christian, Muslim, or Jewish circles. For them, the chosen system > is good enough and does not need corroboration or support from > other quarters. Sheep ... Shall we examine this further ... I know many Christians, Muslims and Jews who practice Reiki .. as we know, it is not a religious endeavour, but one which might heighten their spiritual awareness without compromising the tenets of their chosen (or chosen for them by virtue of birth and environment) religion .. Others simply follow blindly without independent thought .. Also, I cannot endorse any religion which excludes the female sex from its lofty pursuits .. But let's not start a religion war in here ... please .. we know they end up in loooooooong threads ... ;) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:07 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077984449 57073162 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14191 > Told ya, Garry ... ;) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:29 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <40409773.6246F323@imbris.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077985798 55361455 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14192 (suzee) wrote: > > That'll be Wendy's donuts ... ;) > > They don't have donuts... that'll be Krispy Kreme. ;) What about Denny's then? Or is that the same chain just fooling you into thinking you have a choice? Stuart ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:42:06 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 75 Message-ID: References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-537.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!129.250.175.17.MISMATCH!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14193 On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:24:52 GMT, gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote: >On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 19:54 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk >(Stuart Vernon) wrote: > > My 2nd degree teacher did point out the 7 >crossings to us and related it to the 7 chakras, and I was aware of >the "put the Power here" usage, too. But she thought of all of Reiki >as being an Earth based energy, and didn't tell me anything about >Heaven energy or the symbols being connected to a specific energy, >just specific applications of the energy being associated with >specific symbols. > Garry invited me to respond. Thanks, though I'm not sure what to say. I'll have a go. We know that in the West we have evolved ways of teaching and learning all sorts of things - how to use computer programs, how to do proper construction to build a house, how to drive a car, how to ski, on and on. There are classes, how-to books etc. In many of these things, the large majority of experts agree on at least the very basics. Asia is famous for traditions that were built up around inner technologies, examples being qi gong, taiji, yoga meditation, hatha yoga, etc. When you read an author like Hiroshi Doi, you get the sense that he has been exposed to the systematized typical-Japanese way of learning and progressing in Reiki. Okay, Doi was originally attuned in a Western branch of Reiki (after he had studied various meditation methods, as well as hypnotherapy, kiko, forms of Chinese qi gong, crystal healing, and so on). He was greatly impressed with the effect of the Reiki attunement. He soon tried to learn whether Reiki traditions were still alive in Japan, and eventually he found his way to a couple of remnant lineages, and took attunement and instruction from them. Doi, and a few Westerners who went to Japan for training, came to endorse the Japanese methods of training and study. It may be the case that Usui, because of his unique experience, did not originally teach people Reiki in these ways - but he may have eventually found it valuable to do so, for the sake of the students' development. Surely this did seem to be the attitude of some of his successors. I have no doubt that in Japan the teachers generally want students to work with each stage methodically, and slowly enough that there are some natural observations and recognitions that you make along the way. Some Western teachers may be doing this also, but I'd say it is rather few. Since I did not receive any methodical instruction to the effect of the progession of symbols being especially important in Reiki ("intent" having been emphasized), I have just stumbled around as best I could. Personally, if I had not been previously trained in the use of Indian mantras for meditation, I would have little idea how to go about kotadama, from the literature I've read about the practice. All this ties in with another question: in our world today, is it beeter that individuals be deeply trained in Reiki, or better that Reiki spread to as many individuals (via attunement) as possible? Depth or breadth? And at the end of writing the above, I wonder am I saying anything here that is worth saying? m/j ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:42:09 +0200 Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-66.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40415bd0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 29 Feb 2004 05:26:08 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-66.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!proxad.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-66.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14210 "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040228123415.1628J@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (Garry Williams) wrote: > > > Gee-golly-whillikers! Why is PR so silent in this thread? I would > > think he would be glad to have this opportunity to jump out of his > > "let's get out of this rut" rut. ;-) > > I first had to finish reading "African Spirits Speak", the story of a white woman, and former director of San Diego Youth and Community Services, who trained as a Sangoma (African Traditional Healer). To make it short, there are apparently more things possible on this earth than we imagine, either inside or even outside of our rut. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:09:30 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4041031d.649699@news.Individual.NET> References: <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> <40409773.6246F323@imbris.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31r.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.59) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078002390 55889932 I 207.69.12.59 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31r.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14194 On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 08:28:19 -0500, suzee wrote: >Stuart Vernon wrote: > >> That'll be Wendy's donuts ... ;) > >They don't have donuts... that'll be Krispy Kreme. ;) And they're only a short, 10 minute drive from here, and I'll bet the "Hot Donuts Now" sign is lit up in the front window! ;-) Garry, desperate for something to replace the 700 or so big Calories he just burned off ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 21:20:39 GMT Lines: 13 Message-ID: <404105f6.1378476@news.Individual.NET> References: Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31r.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.59) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078003059 56361177 I 207.69.12.59 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31r.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14196 On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 16:07 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: > >> > >Told ya, Garry ... ;) You were right! I guess I belong to the "ye of leetle faith" crowd. Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:06:58 GMT Lines: 139 Message-ID: <4041062a.1430586@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31r.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.59) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078005839 57378621 I 207.69.12.59 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31r.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14197 On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:43:06 +0200, "pr" wrote: >For the Japanese, the Hara, Tandien or Tanden is the center of a >human being. I would expect that a symbol would therefore begin, >end, or have its focal point corresponding to this. Good point. >Looking at CKR it cannot be be "dropped down" far enough to >match the intersections with the chakras. >If you ask me, to mix the chakra theory which is of Indian origin >with Japanese symbolism is really a bit silly. I find these attempts Yes, and one has to wonder exactly when the chakras got introduced? I seem to recall that it wasn't the sort of thing Takata pushed on people, so was it one of her Master students? The Reiki Alliance? Or people further down the Western food chain? >to link one system with another one, no matter how contrived or >not it may appear, is a reflection of our own unhappiness, our >doubts, our insecurities with a particular system. Maybe. Maybe not. The Western Way is to Go Shopping. Buy lots. Mix and match. Make a new outfit. Or go to the buffet where you can have as much as you want of what you like and leave the rest. Which I suppose goes back to being unhappy with a smaller selection. Hmmmm. Consumerism is our raison d'etre? But then again, it might have just been because there was a great big vacuum of information, and Nature abhors a void, you know. >> But she thought of all of Reiki >> as being an Earth based energy, and didn't tell me anything about >> Heaven energy or the symbols being connected to a specific energy, >> just specific applications of the energy being associated with >> specific symbols. > >Isn't heaven and earth the same thing? Can you walk on air or breathe dirt? >> I hardly ever draw the symbols any more, unless I am specifically >> doing a Western style attunement, because after hanging around this >> crowd and hearing how intent was the important thing, I didn't really >> see how the symbol would matter. > >So you don't see how the symbol would matter? (sorry to sound >sarcastic). So you drop it because what you think is more important >than what the original and subsequent teachers found useful, >powerful and appropriate? >How did you arrive at this decision? Was it a sort of spur of a >moment thing or only arrived at after long soul-searching? LOL For one thing, I'm not a circumspect, soul-searching kind of guy (like you). I'm a carpe diem, play with whatever comes your way kind of person. 1. If 1 teacher tells you one thing, and a dozen, scattered around the world, who have been at it for many years longer and who have no motive for lying, tell you just the opposite, who you gonna believe? 2. If I can do everything without the symbols that I could with the symbols, what should I think? Especially if I'm used to thinking linearly and logically, and no one has tipped me off that things are done differently "back East", and for very good reasons. 3. We aren't taught the real meaning/purpose of the symbols *or* the kotodama in the West, anyways. Which, BTW, don't have to be used together in Japanese traditions because they are different ways of teaching the same thing, but do have to be used together in Western traditions because they are treated as magic wands instead of teaching tools. Okay, so this is arrived at via hindsight and someone else's research, but I'll take experience, my own or someone else's, any way I can get it. >Your comment about hanging around this crowd and hearing >what they thought does not give me the impression that it was >the latter. Besides, you should know me better than that by now, slowpoke! :-) >>Also, although my 2nd degree teacher >> did insist we use the symbols, she also always said that intent was >> the most important part. So now I mostly just use connection and >> intent. But the Reiki Sourcebook explains that in the Japanese systems >> that it is very important to understand one aspect of the energy >> before moving on to the next, ie, understanding the energy associated >> with the 1st symbol before moving on to the 2nd symbol, for instance. > >Would the same not also apply to the symbols, that is important to >understand what they represent and their function before they are >discarded? Except that what they represent and their function are not what we are taught in the West. We are taught that they are magic wands to make things happen. We aren't taught jack about what they mean from a Japanese or Tendai Buddhism perspective. They are completely out of context. It's as if you'd never heard of Christianity or seen a cross before and I hand you a cross and tell you now you're a Christian and explain that the cross is for digging holes in the ground and hammering nails, and prying things up and so forth. No word about what the cross really means. >I think we are missing a hell of a lot. Agreed. >> Are we missing >> anything in our Western systems? > >Yes, devotion, surrender, admiration, a sense of awe, a true >sense of oneness, patience, persistence .... Agreed again. >But we have a problem here, being devoted to Universal Energy, >surrendering to Universal Energy, admiring Universal Energy >just does not have the same ring to it compared to using >the same things relating to a general or even unnamed God. >These things leave us with gaping holes in our being which we try >to fill by including more and more stuff, sort of annexing form >other systems what looks useful - only to repeat the process. >This will go on until we see that our Western approach is fundamentally >flawed and proceed from a wrong premise. How regrettable. It would help if we could get a little more insight into what the right premises are. These, of course, were part of the original system. But the ones with the inside information don't seem to be overly enthusiastic about sharing. At least we were able to get Precepts from the Memorial instead of working with the do-it-yourself-New-Age versions. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 22:16 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <4041062a.1430586@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078006570 50947801 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14198 Stuart ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 17:36:41 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 22 Message-ID: <404117F9.897928FC@imbris.com> References: <40409773.6246F323@imbris.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm725-00.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.esat.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14199 Stuart Vernon wrote: > > (suzee) wrote: > > > > That'll be Wendy's donuts ... ;) > > > > They don't have donuts... that'll be Krispy Kreme. ;) > > What about Denny's then? Or is that the same chain just > fooling you into thinking you have a choice? > > I know... Wendy's is a fastfood hamburger/chicken/fries/salad place. Denny's is a sit-down, have a real sorta breakfast/lunch/dinner meal place. They might be owned by the same parent company, but their styles are way different. Krispy Kreme (as well as Dunkin' Donuts) are doughnut/coffee/goodie places. See the difference? sue ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:14 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <404117F9.897928FC@imbris.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078013684 55203588 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14202 (suzee) wrote: > I know... Wendy's is a fastfood hamburger/chicken/fries/salad place. > Denny's is a sit-down, have a real sorta breakfast/lunch/dinner meal > place. They might be owned by the same parent company, but their styles > are way different. Krispy Kreme (as well as Dunkin' Donuts) are > doughnut/coffee/goodie places. > > See the difference? There is no difference ... they all put fat on Garry's ass .. ;) You merkins ... you kill me, you really do .. :) Stuart ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:11:48 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 21 Message-ID: <40413C54.9A31AA16@imbris.com> References: <404117F9.897928FC@imbris.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm839-26.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14206 Stuart Vernon wrote: > > (suzee) wrote: > > > I know... Wendy's is a fastfood hamburger/chicken/fries/salad place. > > Denny's is a sit-down, have a real sorta breakfast/lunch/dinner meal > > place. They might be owned by the same parent company, but their styles > > are way different. Krispy Kreme (as well as Dunkin' Donuts) are > > doughnut/coffee/goodie places. > > > > See the difference? > > There is no difference ... they all put fat on Garry's ass .. ;) Only if he drives there and doesn't even get out of his car. > > You merkins ... you kill me, you really do .. :) Naw... we're killing ourselves! sue ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:17:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.206.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1078017448 162.84.206.73 (Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:17:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:17:28 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!central.cox.net!east.cox.net!filt01.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14207 > If you ask me, to mix the chakra theory which is of Indian origin > with Japanese symbolism is really a bit silly. I find these attempts > to link one system with another one, no matter how contrived or > not it may appear, is a reflection of our own unhappiness, our > doubts, our insecurities with a particular system. or couldn't it be a reminder of the interconnectedness of all things and the truths of the collective consciousness manifesting in various places and forms? > Though I may be wrong, you don't find such needs in traditional > Christian, Muslim, or Jewish circles. For them, the chosen system > is good enough and does not need corroboration or support from > other quarters. but if one did choose to compare and contrast the truths in those various schools of thought and sought out the connections mightn't one find them? ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 01:39:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.206.73 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1078018778 162.84.206.73 (Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:39:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 20:39:38 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!bigfeed2.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14208 > > All this ties in with another question: in our world today, is > it beeter that individuals be deeply trained in Reiki, or better > that Reiki spread to as many individuals (via attunement) as > possible? Depth or breadth? > > And at the end of writing the above, I wonder am I saying > anything here that is worth saying? > > m/j rhetorical question i guess, but me thinks so. as i was reading the whole thread i found myself wondering how important it is that i don't know half of what you guys are discussing. don't know what kotodama is (inferred that it might be use of the symbols), don't know what dkm is (a symbol i suppose, from 3rd degree?) and don't know too much about doi except that he seems to be the expert everyone wants to point to when discussing the japanese tradition of reiki since everyong else is apparently keeping it to themselves. i don't do hatsurei ho, i get bored with most of the rieki books i have read and i tend to overlook the 5 precepts pretty frequently. i wonder how important that is to my own reiki practice and my commitment to it (or lack thereof). if depth is important i have a long way to go, but for myself i do find that my own daily practice of self-treatment and occasional treatment of others does seem worthwhile to me. i wonder if it would be more profound if i cared more to discover more about what you guys are talking about. or if i should just continue to go with the flow and not worry to much about the facts and details. ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 05:17:06 +0200 Lines: 72 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-66.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40415bd1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 29 Feb 2004 05:26:09 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-66.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-66.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14211 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET... > I'll give it a go this weekend (assuming I can still stand up after > today's workout), but honestly, I get more reaction out of just > intending, rather than working with the symbols. Since y'all > disillusioned me when I was fresh out of the Reiki Shake 'n' Bake box > by explaining that the power was in the intent and not in the symbol, > I've never gotten anything much out of the symbol. > > Do you, personally, feel a difference in the energy when using SHK > instead of CKR? To me all the symbols "feel" the same, i.e. they feel > like the letters in this message. Maybe that is exactly the problem? You look at letters and not at words and sentences. So you lose the "big picture", become disconnected from the meaning which can only emerge when stop focussing on close detail. I could say that the symbols are only some brush strokes. Then again, I can say that your thoughts are just electro-chemical interactions in your brain. A mantra could just be a meaningless sequence of syllables, as Transcendental Meditation claims for its mantras. None has much value in itself. But it could also be meaningful, like a Hua t'ou, e.g. "Who is the repeater of Buddha's name?" You can use this in a superficial way and answer "It is Garry who repeats the name" or you can use it to penetrate the great mystery, in which case it might just one day "break your mind" and thus remove the obstacle that stands in the way of the Great Understanding. That a word or a sentence is able to do that, and lets remember that words are also symbols, tells me that it must be pretty powerful. The symbols can be used in exactly the same way. From what I see, the consensus here seems to be based on the superficial evaluation of the symbols which relegates them to "training wheel" status before they can be disposed of in favour of mental machinations. If you think that the holding the symbols in your mind has no power, what makes you belief that your intention has any? Or any other thought for that matter? > And just to raise the ante on our discussion, the RS mentions also > that each of the symbols has its Buddha associated with it, by the > Japanese at least. So, are you calling on the energies of a specific > Buddha when you do your CKR? Yes. Christians might substitute angels for Buddhas and Africana might refers to ancestors. Pagans might want to relate it to "Nature Spirits". > Is the non-religious practice of Reiki > suddenly become very specifically religious? Does the fact that you > get a physical reaction with your CKR physical proof that the Buddha > Daiseishi Bosatsu has answered your call? Yes! It is the explicit promise of Amida Buddha that he will show up for anybody who intones his name, even just once, with sincerety. Why should other Buddhas behave differently? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:48:04 +0200 Lines: 57 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-50.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4041b8a7.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 29 Feb 2004 12:02:15 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-50.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-50.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14220 "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040228160725.1628L@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (pr) wrote: > > > I find these attempts > > to link one system with another one, no matter how contrived or > > not it may appear, is a reflection of our own unhappiness, our > > doubts, our insecurities with a particular system. > > Though I may be wrong, you don't find such needs in traditional > > Christian, Muslim, or Jewish circles. For them, the chosen system > > is good enough and does not need corroboration or support from > > other quarters. > > Sheep ... > > Shall we examine this further ... I know many Christians, Muslims > and Jews who practice Reiki .. as we know, it is not a religious > endeavour, but one which might heighten their spiritual awareness > without compromising the tenets of their chosen (or chosen for them > by virtue of birth and environment) religion .. They don't compromise their religion becasue they integrate reiki fully into their present beliefs and if anything creates difficulties then I would bet that they do not adjust their religion but reiki, in which case it may well cease to be reiki as we know it. > Others simply follow blindly without independent thought .. And some oppose blindly without independent thought :) > Also, I cannot endorse any religion which excludes the female sex > from its lofty pursuits .. A day or two ago I saw a documentary about Islam in Indonesia and how they are successfully including business and woman in a modern economy. To hear something positive said about a Muslim country was quite an uplifting experience. As I write this I get the feeling that we are focusing on the wrong things most of the time, that where the "new world" gets born is not in Washington or Brussels, but in Asia, Latin America and maybe even Africa. The old world is stuck and real change creates too much pain in the mind of its members. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 08:36:26 +0100 From: Theo Reply-To: byjoke@bluewin.ch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en,fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols References: <404117F9.897928FC@imbris.com> <40413C54.9A31AA16@imbris.com> In-Reply-To: <40413C54.9A31AA16@imbris.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.87.131 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.202.87.131 Message-ID: <40419675$1_2@news.bluewin.ch> X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1078040181 62.202.87.131 (29 Feb 2004 08:36:21 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 46 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14215 all tehesen hanburgers talks makes a slowdown metabolism in the AHR too LUV I guess we should talk about Sex and Reiki to rise someine terest! Theo suzee wrote: > Stuart Vernon wrote: > >>(suzee) wrote: >> >> >>>I know... Wendy's is a fastfood hamburger/chicken/fries/salad place. >>>Denny's is a sit-down, have a real sorta breakfast/lunch/dinner meal >>>place. They might be owned by the same parent company, but their styles >>>are way different. Krispy Kreme (as well as Dunkin' Donuts) are >>>doughnut/coffee/goodie places. >>> >>>See the difference? >> >>There is no difference ... they all put fat on Garry's ass .. ;) > > > Only if he drives there and doesn't even get out of his car. > >>You merkins ... you kill me, you really do .. :) > > > Naw... we're killing ourselves! > > sue -- EU Zone 7 GE (CH) S.O.S.Bonsai online @ : byjoke@bluewin.ch -Theo_694@hotmail.com or ICQ 25 666 169 4 my bonsais:http://groups.msn.com/BonsaiItalia/ibonsaiditheo.msnw Membro di : Internet Bonsai Society. I.B.S USA; F.F.B (BE)E.E.B.F ( FR);F.R.J.B(CH) ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:15 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078046123 56717048 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14216 (gingerobyn) wrote: > i wonder how important that is > to my own reiki practice and my commitment to it (or lack thereof). if > depth is important i have a long way to go, but for myself i do find > that my own daily > practice of self-treatment and occasional treatment of others does seem > worthwhile to me. i wonder if it would be more profound if i cared more > to discover more about what you guys are talking about. or if i should > just continue to go with the flow and not worry to much about the facts > and details. Hey Ginger ... stop beating yourself up ... this is just us being left-brained ... Go with the flow ... you're doing OK ... :) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:25 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <40415bd0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078046730 56698123 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14217 (pr) wrote: > I first had to finish reading "African Spirits Speak", the story of > a white woman, and former director of San Diego Youth and > Community Services, who trained as a Sangoma (African > Traditional Healer). To make it short, there are apparently > more things possible on this earth than we imagine, either > inside or even outside of our rut. Does that surprise you, Peter? It's only our imagination (or lack of it), self-belief and conditioning which limits us .. Stuart ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4041062a.1430586@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:01:12 +0200 Lines: 232 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-50.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4041b8aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 29 Feb 2004 12:02:18 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-50.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-50.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14221 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4041062a.1430586@news.Individual.NET... > On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 15:43:06 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >to link one system with another one, no matter how contrived or > >not it may appear, is a reflection of our own unhappiness, our > >doubts, our insecurities with a particular system. > > Maybe. Maybe not. The Western Way is to Go Shopping. Buy lots. Mix and > match. Make a new outfit. Or go to the buffet where you can have as > much as you want of what you like and leave the rest. Which I suppose > goes back to being unhappy with a smaller selection. Hmmmm. > Consumerism is our raison d'etre? But then again, it might have just > been because there was a great big vacuum of information, and Nature > abhors a void, you know. I think it has more to do with that "too much" is still not enough. Wasn't it Rockefeller, worth about 800million US$ at the time, who was asked "when do you have enough money" answered with "just one more million"? > >> But she thought of all of Reiki > >> as being an Earth based energy, and didn't tell me anything about > >> Heaven energy or the symbols being connected to a specific energy, > >> just specific applications of the energy being associated with > >> specific symbols. > > > >Isn't heaven and earth the same thing? > > Can you walk on air or breathe dirt? I do it all the time. > >> I hardly ever draw the symbols any more, unless I am specifically > >> doing a Western style attunement, because after hanging around this > >> crowd and hearing how intent was the important thing, I didn't really > >> see how the symbol would matter. > > > >So you don't see how the symbol would matter? (sorry to sound > >sarcastic). So you drop it because what you think is more important > >than what the original and subsequent teachers found useful, > >powerful and appropriate? > >How did you arrive at this decision? Was it a sort of spur of a > >moment thing or only arrived at after long soul-searching? > > LOL For one thing, I'm not a circumspect, soul-searching kind of guy > (like you). I'm a carpe diem, play with whatever comes your way kind > of person. > > 1. If 1 teacher tells you one thing, and a dozen, scattered around > the world, who have been at it for many years longer and who have no > motive for lying, tell you just the opposite, who you gonna believe? Your own exeperience, after giving it a proper chance which we can only do if we know what the proper application is. > 2. If I can do everything without the symbols that I could with the > symbols, what should I think? Especially if I'm used to thinking > linearly and logically, and no one has tipped me off that things are > done differently "back East", and for very good reasons. I can hardly belief that there is anybody who does not know that things are done differently in the East. Note it is not "back East" implying retardation, lagging, "being behind", less advanced, etc., a nice Freudian slip :) > 3. We aren't taught the real meaning/purpose of the symbols *or* the > kotodama in the West, anyways. Interesting statement, and if we could broaden it (can we?) to the whole of Reiki then we land up in a real mess. I will give you that the original may not be known "as it was", that it got distorted to some degree in the translation and transmission. What I do not belief is that these things were done deliberately, are done deliberately today, and that they are now so far from the truth that it is impossible to recapture it. > >>Also, although my 2nd degree teacher > >> did insist we use the symbols, she also always said that intent was > >> the most important part. So now I mostly just use connection and > >> intent. But the Reiki Sourcebook explains that in the Japanese systems > >> that it is very important to understand one aspect of the energy > >> before moving on to the next, ie, understanding the energy associated > >> with the 1st symbol before moving on to the 2nd symbol, for instance. > > > >Would the same not also apply to the symbols, that is important to > >understand what they represent and their function before they are > >discarded? > > Except that what they represent and their function are not what we are > taught in the West. We are taught that they are magic wands to make > things happen. We aren't taught jack about what they mean from a > Japanese or Tendai Buddhism perspective. They are completely out of > context. There is the big wide world out there which contains all that information and much of it is accessible via the internet. In some ng's there are people who say the Christian (Catholic?) Church did this and that in the middle ages and today we therefore have to do this or that. For me this is just a stupid argument. The only thing that matters is what they do today. You do not judge their deeds of the distant past with the knowledge we have available today and from within the culture we live in today and base your actions on that. You may complain about your teachers and what they taught or how they taught it, but it is up to you to rectify any deficiencies and fill in gaps which you may perceive now. > >I think we are missing a hell of a lot. > > Agreed. > > >> Are we missing > >> anything in our Western systems? > > > >Yes, devotion, surrender, admiration, a sense of awe, a true > >sense of oneness, patience, persistence .... > > Agreed again. > > >But we have a problem here, being devoted to Universal Energy, > >surrendering to Universal Energy, admiring Universal Energy > >just does not have the same ring to it compared to using > >the same things relating to a general or even unnamed God. > >These things leave us with gaping holes in our being which we try > >to fill by including more and more stuff, sort of annexing form > >other systems what looks useful - only to repeat the process. > >This will go on until we see that our Western approach is fundamentally > >flawed and proceed from a wrong premise. How regrettable. > > > > It would help if we could get a little more insight into what the > right premises are. These, of course, were part of the original > system. But the ones with the inside information don't seem to be > overly enthusiastic about sharing. At least we were able to get > Precepts from the Memorial instead of working with the > do-it-yourself-New-Age versions. > > The fundamental flaw is the error of dualism, to divide the worl into "real" and "not real" and then to designate the "not real" as not being worthy of attention. Religion gets relegated to the world of superstition, ignoring completely the fact that science is just one more religion. Huge areas of our human experience are invalidated and therefore become inaccessible to some degree. This also creates doubts about what other areas of our life should receive the same treatment. One casuality of the past was the body itself. This is slowly being rectified but inadequately so. We feel at one while we have a treatment, attend a seminar, listen to some music, but not so much later we are back in the world of separate entities created by our mind. I we talk about Oneness it is just to make us feel good and special, since we are the ones who *know* the true facts, ironically creating just another "us and them" dualistic scenario. We look for cause and effect, apply our linear thinking, knowing well that few things have single causes. By trying to deduce THE cause we focus on smaller and ever more isolated things. We are either unwilling or unable to look at what happens and ask the question how "does this arise?", "what are the conditions necessary for this to come into being?", questions which broaden the view rather than narrow it. Why do we do this? Because the latter does not necessarily produce answers that can be put into neat little boxes and is thus not supported by science nor our educational systems. Then there is the ideal of the self-made, independent man, relying on nothing else but himself, unable to trust or have faith in things outside himself because they are beyond his control. Stuart writes > Sheep .... because like sheeps of a different kind, he subscribes to the idea that we should not be sheep. We should all be leaders I presume. Well, we are, even if I follow Shinran's way I am the leader in my life. I have made the way of the Nembutsu my way and by *making* it my way Shinran becomes only a guide along that path. I walk my own road, it may be a road travelled by many before, but still I am alone and thus a leader without followers. And the same goes for followers of other paths because the only thing necessary is to to make a path *your* path. Any true leader would also not give a damn about whether s/he is called leader or sheep. From a Western perspective this may not make sense and may be relegated to the are of fantasy and personal fiction, which inevitably leads to its dismissal. In the East, this may also be seen as fantasy and personal fiction but will be treated "as if" it is real and thus it becomes something one can work with. And so to return to the fundamental flaws of the Western view. It is its unwillingness, or even broad inability, to work with things presented that fall outside the "real" "as if" they were real. This is despite R.D.Laing showing in his work with schizophrenic patients in the 60's how productive this approach is. Is there anybody reading this who wants to claim that information of the kind above is not available at prices that range from the exorbitant to free in numerous places such as seminars, workshops, bookshops, public libraries and the internet? Do you want to say that Gurdjieff lied when he answered Ouspensky's question "Why is this knowledge so carefully concealed?" by saying "It is not concealed, No one is concealing anything; there is no mystery whatever. But the acquisition or transmission of true knowledge demands great labour and great effort both of him who receives and of him who gives. And those who possess this knowledge are doing everything they can to transmit and communicate it to the greatest possible number of people, to facilitate people's approach to it and enable them to prepare themselves to receive the truth. But knowledge cannot be given by force to anyone ..." -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:44 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <4041b8a7.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078055065 57173748 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14222 (pr) wrote: > > Also, I cannot endorse any religion which excludes the female sex > > from its lofty pursuits .. > > A day or two ago I saw a documentary about Islam in > Indonesia and how they are successfully including > business and woman in a modern economy. To hear > something positive said about a Muslim country was > quite an uplifting experience. As I write this I get the > feeling that we are focusing on the wrong things > most of the time, that where the "new world" gets > born is not in Washington or Brussels, but in Asia, > Latin America and maybe even Africa. > The old world is stuck and real change creates too > much pain in the mind of its members. Absolutely .. but there are some of us (who don't necessarily belong to a focus [i.e. selfish] group) taking the broader view ... what we can do about it, I dunno .. maybe join a focus group ... ;) But we're not just talking "Third World" here ... take my 85-y-o Jewish Mother-in-Law ... spritely old bird, stickler for her tradition, loves Barmitzvahs but can't manage the stairs for segregation in the synagogue .. can she sit at the back in the men's section? "No" Religious apartheid, no? Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 11:44 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 52 Message-ID: References: <4041b8aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078055065 57173748 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14223 (pr) wrote: Apologies for cherry-picking here, Peter .. > Stuart writes > Sheep .... > because like sheeps of a different kind, he subscribes to > the idea that we should not be sheep. We should all be > leaders I presume. No ... I subscribe to the idea that we are responsible for our own existence .. moralities and self-healing included .. > Well, we are, even if I follow Shinran's way I am the leader > in my life. I have made the way of the Nembutsu my way > and by *making* it my way Shinran becomes only a guide > along that path. I walk my own road, it may be a road > travelled by many before, but still I am alone and thus > a leader without followers. And the same goes for > followers of other paths because the only thing necessary > is to to make a path *your* path. We're singing from the same songsheet .. but you don't have to be a soloist ... > Any true leader would also not give a damn about whether > s/he is called leader or sheep. True .. > Is there anybody reading this who wants to claim that > information of the kind above is not available at prices > that range from the exorbitant to free in numerous places > such as seminars, workshops, bookshops, public libraries > and the internet? > Do you want to say that Gurdjieff lied when he answered > Ouspensky's question "Why is this knowledge so carefully > concealed?" by saying "It is not concealed, No one is > concealing anything; there is no mystery whatever. > But the acquisition or transmission of true knowledge > demands great labour and great effort both of him who > receives and of him who gives. > And those who possess this knowledge are doing > everything they can to transmit and communicate > it to the greatest possible number of people, > to facilitate people's approach to it and enable > them to prepare themselves to receive the truth. > But knowledge cannot be given by force to anyone ..." Seek and ye shall find Stuart ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 07:26:16 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 26 Message-ID: <4041DA68.8B59B2C8@imbris.com> References: <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET> <40415bd1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm851-16.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!iad-feed.news.verio.net!peer1.stngva01.us.to.verio.net!news.verio.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14225 pr wrote: > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:4040748d.809213@news.Individual.NET... > > > I'll give it a go this weekend (assuming I can still stand up after > > today's workout), but honestly, I get more reaction out of just > > intending, rather than working with the symbols. Since y'all > > disillusioned me when I was fresh out of the Reiki Shake 'n' Bake box > > by explaining that the power was in the intent and not in the symbol, > > I've never gotten anything much out of the symbol. > > > > Do you, personally, feel a difference in the energy when using SHK > > instead of CKR? To me all the symbols "feel" the same, i.e. they feel > > like the letters in this message. > > Maybe that is exactly the problem? You look at letters and not > at words and sentences. So you lose the "big picture", become > disconnected from the meaning which can only emerge when > stop focussing on close detail. I think he meant that he does look at the symbols. He just used the letters for an abbreviation. Also, it offends some people to mention the full name of the symbols. sue ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:43:21 GMT Lines: 233 Message-ID: <4041cf0e.2378042@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4041062a.1430586@news.Individual.NET> <4041b8aa.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3ck.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.148) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078058420 56379240 I 207.69.13.148 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3ck.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14226 On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:01:12 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I think it has more to do with that "too much" is still not enough. >Wasn't it Rockefeller, worth about 800million US$ at the time, >who was asked "when do you have enough money" answered >with "just one more million"? Rockefeller was a piker. The correct answer is "Never!" >> >> But she thought of all of Reiki >> >> as being an Earth based energy, and didn't tell me anything about >> >> Heaven energy or the symbols being connected to a specific energy, >> >> just specific applications of the energy being associated with >> >> specific symbols. >> > >> >Isn't heaven and earth the same thing? >> >> Can you walk on air or breathe dirt? > >I do it all the time. Then you're dead? Fascinating! You're the first person I've met you type after they became disembodied! Or are you speaking metaphorically? In that case, riddle me this: if heaven and earth are the same, why have 2 different words? Why associate them with different properties/aspects of our experience? Why talk about them as if they were different? Indeed, why talk about anything, since it's all one? You're just indulging in the illusion of separation, aren't you? Why contribute to more illusion? (Get all zen with me, will he? If he keeps it up, I'll bite him on his leg! Just to see if he screams metaphorically, of course.) >> 1. If 1 teacher tells you one thing, and a dozen, scattered around >> the world, who have been at it for many years longer and who have no >> motive for lying, tell you just the opposite, who you gonna believe? > >Your own exeperience, after giving it a proper chance which >we can only do if we know what the proper application is. In order to *have* your own experience, you have to start doing something. Since I was given two mutually exclusive options to practice, I had to choose one and do it. I did, and now you're fussing as if I hadn't done so. Your point really is, I didn't do it your way, therefore I chose the wrong way. Wrong answer! Especially, since in light of recent information, you were taught incorrectly yourself, and not all your circumspection has led you to the correct application/experience. >> 2. If I can do everything without the symbols that I could with the >> symbols, what should I think? Especially if I'm used to thinking >> linearly and logically, and no one has tipped me off that things are >> done differently "back East", and for very good reasons. > >I can hardly belief that there is anybody who does not know >that things are done differently in the East. Note it is not You didn't grow up in the boondocks in a huge country that largely ignores the rest of the world, did you? Get over it. Shit happens. :-) >"back East" implying retardation, lagging, "being behind", >less advanced, etc., a nice Freudian slip :) If it's a Freudian slip, it's yours. Enjoy. Here in the US "back East" implies civilization, sophistication, more advanced, or it did for most of the historical development of this country. Now it mostly implies conservatism. At any rate, all I was implying in my phrase "back East" was a cardinal direction relative to where I'm at. That's the way we speak in my dialect of English. Sorry if I lead you astray, but I didn't really. You led yourself with all your clever analysis of something that you imagined instead of just observing. Take a tea break before answering next time! >> 3. We aren't taught the real meaning/purpose of the symbols *or* the >> kotodama in the West, anyways. > >Interesting statement, and if we could broaden it (can we?) In broad swaths, yes. >to the whole of Reiki then we land up in a real mess. >I will give you that the original may not be known "as it was", >that it got distorted to some degree in the translation and >transmission. >What I do not belief is that these things were done deliberately, >are done deliberately today, and that they are now so far from >the truth that it is impossible to recapture it. I don't think that it happened deliberately either, but some have suggested that Hayashi, since he only trained for 10 months, didn't really understand what Usui was trying to get across. He really was interested just in the hand-healing aspect. In the beginning he taught both Usui's system and his own, and then eventually stopped teaching Usui's system. Perhaps he didn't see much value in it? Which means what we practice in the West is some variant of Hayashi Reiki, and little of Usui's work remains. We know that Usui said that "Mind and body are one. Once the spirit is healed, humanity will find its true path, resulting in a healthy body." All we are really taught in the West are the physical parts of Reiki, with maybe some New Age spirituality thrown in. I personally don't believe we're going to come close to assembling Usui's teachings until the people who claim to be learning from the Japanese begin to share, assuming the Japanese are actually sharing the real teachings or something derived from them in the first place. >There is the big wide world out there which contains all that >information and much of it is accessible via the internet. No shit? As a Google Reiki Master I may be somewhat aware of what you speak. However, I have yet to find the website where the true meaning, purpose and usage of the symbols and kotodama are explained in their full context. I gather you do not have the URL handy, either, or surely you would have posted it? After all, Usui is know to have said: "..the happiness of humanity is based on two elements: working together and the desire for social progress. This cannot happen if any one individual attempts to possess Reiki." Clearly, the Gakkai is not familiar with this particular passage or thinks that it really doesn't apply to them. Since they are a group instead of an individual, perhaps they are, technically at least, correct. :-) >You may complain about your teachers and what they taught >or how they taught it, but it is up to you to rectify any >deficiencies and fill in gaps which you may perceive now. Excuse me? Didn't you just complain about how Western Reiki is where it is today because people filled in the gaps on their own with whatever New Age spirituality suited them, thereby showing the flaws in their basic premises? And now you are exhorting me to do the same? Will you make up your mind, please? >The fundamental flaw is the error of dualism, to divide the >worl into "real" and "not real" and then to designate the >"not real" as not being worthy of attention. Religion gets It worse than you think. Sometimes the "real" gets identified as "not real" and vice versa, and people end up ignoring the "real" parts and putting their attention on the "not real" parts, completely contrary to what they were intending to do. Safer to just chuck the whole ball of wax and just mmmmm. >Stuart writes > Sheep .... >because like sheeps of a different kind, he subscribes to >the idea that we should not be sheep. We should all be >leaders I presume. >Well, we are, even if I follow Shinran's way I am the leader >in my life. I have made the way of the Nembutsu my way >and by *making* it my way Shinran becomes only a guide >along that path. I walk my own road, it may be a road >travelled by many before, but still I am alone and thus >a leader without followers. And the same goes for Sure. That's what you *tell* yourself. Justify it any way you like buddy. ;-) >followers of other paths because the only thing necessary >is to to make a path *your* path. >Any true leader would also not give a damn about whether >s/he is called leader or sheep. I beg to differ. Any true *seeker* would not give a damn about whether s/he is called leader or sheep. Any *leader* worth their salt is not going to let anyone sully their reputation by allowing the public to think of the leader as a sheep. Leaders are *very* concerned about their public image. If they aren't seen as leaders, the sheep won't follow. :-) >From a Western perspective this may not make sense >and may be relegated to the are of fantasy and personal >fiction, which inevitably leads to its dismissal. >In the East, this may also be seen as fantasy and personal >fiction but will be treated "as if" it is real and thus it >becomes something one can work with. Huh? You forgot to leave a trail of breadcrumbs, or else all the little forest animals ate it up. Come back! >And so to return to the fundamental flaws of the Western >view. It is its unwillingness, or even broad inability, to work >with things presented that fall outside the "real" "as if" they >were real. This is despite R.D.Laing showing in his work >with schizophrenic patients in the 60's how productive this >approach is. Oh, I don't know. Children play "let's pretend" all the time. Clever, successful problem-solving adults do, as well. You really have a dim view of humanity, don't you? >Is there anybody reading this who wants to claim that >information of the kind above is not available at prices >that range from the exorbitant to free in numerous places >such as seminars, workshops, bookshops, public libraries >and the internet? If by "the kind above" you are referring to the aspects of Reiki we have been discussing, and not your presentation of the Götterdämmerung of Western Man in three part harmony, I'll grant the exhorbitant, but not the free. I'll believe public libraries and the internet when you give me a "f'rinstance". What *is* available in the manner of which you speak is *not* the genuine article. Cheap knockoffs only, sold at Gucci prices, or given away for free, but always, always, peddled as "the real deal". >Do you want to say that Gurdjieff lied when he answered >Ouspensky's question "Why is this knowledge so carefully >concealed?" by saying "It is not concealed, No one is >concealing anything; there is no mystery whatever. >But the acquisition or transmission of true knowledge >demands great labour and great effort both of him who >receives and of him who gives. I'll grant you that. >And those who possess this knowledge are doing >everything they can to transmit and communicate >it to the greatest possible number of people, >to facilitate people's approach to it and enable >them to prepare themselves to receive the truth. >But knowledge cannot be given by force to anyone ..." Well, that's what Usui wanted with his method, anyways, but we really don't see that happening, now, do we? The proof of the pudding is in the eating. So are you saying that no one possesses the knowledge any longer? Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:44:43 GMT Lines: 5 Message-ID: <4041dea4.6368047@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3ck.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.148) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078058500 56379240 I 207.69.13.148 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3ck.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14227 Short *and* sweet! Damn, but she's good! Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 12:48:22 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> References: Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3ck.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.148) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078058720 56379240 I 207.69.13.148 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3ck.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14228 On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 09:15 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: >Hey Ginger ... stop beating yourself up ... this is just us >being left-brained ... > >Go with the flow ... you're doing OK ... :) Agree with Stuart, but...it wouldn't hurt to say the precepts to yourself first thing in the morning when you get up and last thing at night before you go to bed. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 13:36 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <4041dea4.6368047@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078061785 57213512 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14231 (Garry Williams) wrote: > Short *and* sweet! Damn, but she's good! Yes ... nice one, Ginger .. See what happens when you don't give it the verbal diarrhoea .. :) Stuart ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:35:42 +0200 Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-17.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40420727.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 29 Feb 2004 17:37:11 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-17.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-17.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14232 "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040229091521.2824B@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (gingerobyn) wrote: > > > i wonder how important that is > > to my own reiki practice and my commitment to it (or lack thereof). if > > depth is important i have a long way to go, but for myself i do find > > that my own daily > > practice of self-treatment and occasional treatment of others does seem > > worthwhile to me. i wonder if it would be more profound if i cared more > > to discover more about what you guys are talking about. or if i should > > just continue to go with the flow and not worry to much about the facts > > and details. > > Hey Ginger ... stop beating yourself up ... this is just us > being left-brained ... > > Go with the flow ... you're doing OK ... :) I would say that the right brain is probably as efficient, if not more so, than the left one in beating ourselves up. Thre right brain is not all benign and has some pretty nasty stuff in it too. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:44:31 +0100 From: Theo Reply-To: byjoke@bluewin.ch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols References: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> In-Reply-To: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.63.75.53 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.63.75.53 Message-ID: <40424118_3@news.bluewin.ch> X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1078083864 81.63.75.53 (29 Feb 2004 20:44:24 +0100) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 12 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14243 Garry Williams wrote: > Agree with Stuart, but...it wouldn't hurt to say the precepts to > yourself first thing in the morning when you get up and last thing at > night before you go to bed. :-) I think you are a *man of precepts indeed* Blessings Theo ###### Message-ID: <40424EB4.9D20638D@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 80 Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:43:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1078087439 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:43:59 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 14:43:59 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14247 Hi Ginger, gingerobyn wrote: > > > > > All this ties in with another question: in our world today, is > > it better that individuals be deeply trained in Reiki, or better > > that Reiki spread to as many individuals (via attunement) as > > possible? Depth or breadth? > > > > And at the end of writing the above, I wonder am I saying > > anything here that is worth saying? > > > > m/j > > rhetorical question i guess, but me thinks so. I have found http://www.sharereiki.org/ a site with the answers to many of your questions. It has a very good search engine on site. > > as i was reading the whole thread i found myself wondering how important it > is that i don't know half of what you guys are discussing. IMO it may be helpful to your personal growth to have at least a basic understanding of the terms being discussed. > don't know what > kotodama is (inferred that it might be use of the symbols), Kotodama is the use of mantras to achive a desired mental state. http://www.sharereiki.org/japan/kotodama.htm > don't know what dkm is (a symbol i suppose, from 3rd degree?) DKM is Dai Ko Mio & is explained at; http://angelreiki.nu/seichim/facet7.htm > and don't know too much about doi except that he seems to be the expert > everyone wants to point to when discussing the japanese tradition of > reiki since everyong else is apparently keeping it to themselves. You noticed that to huh? ^_^ > i don't do hatsurei ho, i get bored with most of the rieki books i have > read and i tend to overlook the 5 precepts pretty frequently. I found a nice wallpaper with the precepts at; http://www.geocities.com/fascin8or/reiki_wallpaper.html > i wonder how important that is to my own reiki practice and my commitment > to it (or lack thereof). Since you can access & use the energy IMO that is all you need to do. The rest may assist you in your personal growth, or not. > if depth is important i have a long way to go, but for myself i do find > that my own daily > practice of self-treatment and occasional treatment of others does seem > worthwhile to me. i wonder if it would be more profound if i cared more to > discover more about what you guys are talking about. or if i should just > continue > to go with the flow and not worry to much about the facts and details. Only you can answer that. ^_^ GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:47:40 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <40425dca.5092365@news.Individual.NET> References: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> <40424118_3@news.bluewin.ch> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka1c2.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.5.130) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078091076 56480684 I 207.69.5.130 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka1c2.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14251 On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:44:31 +0100, Theo wrote: > > >Garry Williams wrote: > > >> Agree with Stuart, but...it wouldn't hurt to say the precepts to >> yourself first thing in the morning when you get up and last thing at >> night before you go to bed. :-) > I think you are a *man of precepts indeed* The Precepts are in fashion all year round, even in late Winter. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "Steel Dragon" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:34:08 +0100 Organization: Nerim -- xDSL Internet Provider Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40424EB4.9D20638D@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chorand.net1.nerim.net X-Trace: biggoron.nerim.net 1078148012 41238 213.41.139.75 (1 Mar 2004 13:33:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@nerim.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:33:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!nerim.net!biggoron.nerim.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14268 Hi Alex, Thanks for these links. Nice to see that there are still people around who try to make sense of all these aspects. [No, just kidding, really ;-) ] > I found a nice wallpaper with the precepts at; > http://www.geocities.com/fascin8or/reiki_wallpaper.html That's great - I was looking for new wallpapers. That said - I have a very serious (for me) question. I think I remember the original photo of Usui Sensei was in black & white. Why is this kimono in a bright purple colour? In a peculiar way, it's a matter of life and death for me (more on that later). Lots of brilliant & colorful thoughts to all, Henri ###### From: "Reiki Evolution" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:24:48 -0000 Lines: 97 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-62-64-141-61.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 1 Mar 2004 16:24:53 GMT, dial-62-64-141-61.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!dial-62-64-141-61.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14269 Dear Garry, The system that Usui Sensei taught to the vast majority of his students was a self-healing/spiritual development system and the treatment of others was not focused on or emphasised. At first degree level the students received repeated empowerments, did some simple energy exercises, self-treated in a variety of different ways and focused on living in accordance with Usui's precepts. As much spiritual development could come through following the precepts as came through doing the energy work, it seems. They worked to develop their Dantien and a few of the students moved on to second degree level. Usui varied his teachings depending on the background of his students, so you could say that they all followed an individual training programme, rather than Usui teaching a standard set of techniques/approaches to everyone. At second degree the students were introduced to two important energies: that of earth ki and heavenly ki. This was done by the students carrying out various meditations, or by chanting mantras (kotodama) that come from Shintoism. This took a while: students might have spent 6-9 months chanting one sound in order to 'become'/assimilate earth ki before they moved on to spend a similar amount of time learning to become heavenly ki. The idea here is that we are physical reality and spiritual essence, and the students learnt to experience these aspects fully, a powerful method of achieving balance. Earth energy/celestial energy also turn up in things like QiGong, don't they, so it's not surprising that we find these two fundamental energies represented in Usui's system, IMO. Some of the second degree students moved on to use meditations or chanting in order to experience a state of oneness. So Usui's system was all about working on the self, and along come the Imperial officers looking to be taught a simple hands-on healing system that could be used in the Imperial Navy. Usui was a well-known healer, one of about 30 famous healers in his time, though what Usui Sensei was doing in terms of treating others was little different from what the other healers were doing. The symbols were introduced jointly by Usui and his senior student Eguchi for the benefit of the Imperial officers, who simply did not have the time to get to grips with the energies in the way that Usui had been using with the other students, and their focus was on the treatment of others, so the symbols were used as a quick way of depicting the energies; earth ki, heavenly ki etc. From my own experimentation over the last four years I have found - and my students have found - that if you meditate on CKR - visualise a big CKR up in the air above you, say the name three times, and imagine that cascades of energy are flooding down to you, flowing over you, flooding through you for several minutes - then most people find that the energy feels fierce, coarse, heavy, dense, oppressive sometimes, dark (in a comforting way), enveloping, whereas energy from SHK tends to feel soft, light, gentle, fluffy, uplifting, cool, expansive... most people would plump to experience energy from SHK! Thise are the essences of earth ki and heavenly ki. This information has come from the surviving students, so there will be people on this list who will object to me saying these things, and they should just ignore the contents of this message, but never mind... Hope that helps a bit. Best wishes, Taggart www.reiki-evolution.co.uk 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET... > I guess I'm a bit "behind the times", but I ignored all the hoopla > when the Reiki Sourcebook, by Bronwen and Frans Stiene, came out > because I figured it was just another Reiki book (it's hard to find > impressive Reiki books). Well, I was in the bookstore last weekend and > just happened to see a copy on the shelf and picked it up and started > leafing through it. Talk about encyclopedia of Reiki! Especially Reiki > history. If I had to recommend just one book on Reiki, this would be > it. > > There are some interesting things in it that I was not aware of, > though, even after having read AHR and all the good websites that we > recommend for a couple of years. For instance, I'm reading about the > symbols and mantras (or kotodama or jumon or whatever) and I had no > idea that the 1st symbol relates to earth or in or yin energy and the > 2nd symbol to heaven or yo or yang energy. None of my teachers ever > even suggested such a thing, much less explained the ramifications of > this concept. It was always just "power" this and "mental/emotional" > that, and how do we use them to manifest (read "wishcraft") whatever > our selfish, little-spoiled-children hearts desire. > > Anyone care to share their experiences/training with the care and > feeding of the symbols and mantras? > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### Message-ID: <40436BC5.9341F3E7@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40424EB4.9D20638D@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 53 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:58:45 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1078160289 65.30.225.94 (Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:58:09 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:58:09 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!dedekind.zen.co.uk!textnews.ldn.kewlio.net!lightspeed.eweka.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!bigfeed2.bellsouth.net!news.bellsouth.net!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14272 Hi Henri, Steel Dragon wrote: > > Hi Alex, > > Thanks for these links. Nice to see that there are still people around > who try to make sense of all these aspects. > [No, just kidding, really ;-) ] As Peter R said most of the information is available with a web search for those students that want to know. > > I found a nice wallpaper with the precepts at; > > http://www.geocities.com/fascin8or/reiki_wallpaper.html > > That's great - I was looking for new wallpapers. > > That said - I have a very serious (for me) question. > > I think I remember the original photo of Usui Sensei was in black & > white. I believe a b & w photo is what is usually shown. > Why is this kimono in a bright purple colour? Perhaps who ever colorized the picture likes purple. I don't know enough about Dr. Mikao Usui to be able to say what color robe he would have been wearing. > In a peculiar way, it's a matter of life and death for me (more on that > later). If it is that important to you the color of the robe can be changed in most paint programs. > Lots of brilliant & colorful thoughts to all, > > Henri GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 04:32:16 GMT Lines: 116 Message-ID: <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka09h.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.1.49) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078201748 57680080 I 207.69.1.49 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka09h.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14283 Dear Taggart, Your comments are very much appreciated and quite elucidating! Thank you for sharing. But I have a question. If the symbols themselves have no power of their own, but only gain it by association, it seems to me that one could do the exercise you suggest and learn to feel "earth ki" from the 2nd symbol, and "heavenly ki" from the 1st symbol, no? After all, neither symbol holds any inherent connections to ki at all, nevermind earth ki or heaven ki, to a Westerner. Or do they? Love and Light, Garry On Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:24:48 -0000, "Reiki Evolution" wrote: >Dear Garry, > >The system that Usui Sensei taught to the vast majority of his students was >a self-healing/spiritual development system and the treatment of others was >not focused on or emphasised. At first degree level the students received >repeated empowerments, did some simple energy exercises, self-treated in a >variety of different ways and focused on living in accordance with Usui's >precepts. As much spiritual development could come through following the >precepts as came through doing the energy work, it seems. They worked to >develop their Dantien and a few of the students moved on to second degree >level. Usui varied his teachings depending on the background of his >students, so you could say that they all followed an individual training >programme, rather than Usui teaching a standard set of techniques/approaches >to everyone. > >At second degree the students were introduced to two important energies: >that of earth ki and heavenly ki. This was done by the students carrying out >various meditations, or by chanting mantras (kotodama) that come from >Shintoism. This took a while: students might have spent 6-9 months chanting >one sound in order to 'become'/assimilate earth ki before they moved on to >spend a similar amount of time learning to become heavenly ki. The idea here >is that we are physical reality and spiritual essence, and the students >learnt to experience these aspects fully, a powerful method of achieving >balance. Earth energy/celestial energy also turn up in things like QiGong, >don't they, so it's not surprising that we find these two fundamental >energies represented in Usui's system, IMO. Some of the second degree >students moved on to use meditations or chanting in order to experience a >state of oneness. > >So Usui's system was all about working on the self, and along come the >Imperial officers looking to be taught a simple hands-on healing system that >could be used in the Imperial Navy. Usui was a well-known healer, one of >about 30 famous healers in his time, though what Usui Sensei was doing in >terms of treating others was little different from what the other healers >were doing. The symbols were introduced jointly by Usui and his senior >student Eguchi for the benefit of the Imperial officers, who simply did not >have the time to get to grips with the energies in the way that Usui had >been using with the other students, and their focus was on the treatment of >others, so the symbols were used as a quick way of depicting the energies; >earth ki, heavenly ki etc. > >From my own experimentation over the last four years I have found - and my >students have found - that if you meditate on CKR - visualise a big CKR up >in the air above you, say the name three times, and imagine that cascades of >energy are flooding down to you, flowing over you, flooding through you for >several minutes - then most people find that the energy feels fierce, >coarse, heavy, dense, oppressive sometimes, dark (in a comforting way), >enveloping, whereas energy from SHK tends to feel soft, light, gentle, >fluffy, uplifting, cool, expansive... most people would plump to experience >energy from SHK! Thise are the essences of earth ki and heavenly ki. > >This information has come from the surviving students, so there will be >people on this list who will object to me saying these things, and they >should just ignore the contents of this message, but never mind... > >Hope that helps a bit. > >Best wishes, > > >Taggart >www.reiki-evolution.co.uk >5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET... >> I guess I'm a bit "behind the times", but I ignored all the hoopla >> when the Reiki Sourcebook, by Bronwen and Frans Stiene, came out >> because I figured it was just another Reiki book (it's hard to find >> impressive Reiki books). Well, I was in the bookstore last weekend and >> just happened to see a copy on the shelf and picked it up and started >> leafing through it. Talk about encyclopedia of Reiki! Especially Reiki >> history. If I had to recommend just one book on Reiki, this would be >> it. >> >> There are some interesting things in it that I was not aware of, >> though, even after having read AHR and all the good websites that we >> recommend for a couple of years. For instance, I'm reading about the >> symbols and mantras (or kotodama or jumon or whatever) and I had no >> idea that the 1st symbol relates to earth or in or yin energy and the >> 2nd symbol to heaven or yo or yang energy. None of my teachers ever >> even suggested such a thing, much less explained the ramifications of >> this concept. It was always just "power" this and "mental/emotional" >> that, and how do we use them to manifest (read "wishcraft") whatever >> our selfish, little-spoiled-children hearts desire. >> >> Anyone care to share their experiences/training with the care and >> feeding of the symbols and mantras? >> >> Love and Light, >> >> Garry >> > > ###### From: "Reiki Evolution" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:53:11 -0000 Lines: 54 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-62-64-172-68.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 2 Mar 2004 08:53:14 GMT, dial-62-64-172-68.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!dial-62-64-172-68.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14286 Dear Garry, Many thanks for your message. I didn't mean that "the symbols themselves have no power of their own, but only gain it by association". The symbols were introduced as a way of depicting earth ki and heavenly ki, in the way that chanting a Shinto mantra could elicit those energies within you. CKR represented earth ki, so you wouldn't experience heavenly ki by meditating on it. They are a way of 'framing' the energy in a particular way IMO. I have been having my students meditate on these symbols for years now, and without any suggestions of what they might feel they experience the energies in a similar way; although there are always individual variations, there is a general consensus about how the energies of the symbols tend to feel for most people. You don't need to be attuned to the things for them to work for you - Usui didn't attune people to symbols - but once you are connected to Reiki (and now we know how to do this without using symbols - Reiju) then IMO *any* symbol will push the energy in a particular direction. So when you are working with Reiki you have it all from the word go - earth ki and heavely ki are already there, and the symbols (or chanting the kotodama) are ways of experiencing strongly something that is already there: bringing the energies into greater focus or familiarity. Does that make sense? Best wishes, Taggart www.reiki-evolution.co.uk 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET... > Dear Taggart, > > Your comments are very much appreciated and quite elucidating! Thank > you for sharing. But I have a question. If the symbols themselves have > no power of their own, but only gain it by association, it seems to me > that one could do the exercise you suggest and learn to feel "earth > ki" from the 2nd symbol, and "heavenly ki" from the 1st symbol, no? > After all, neither symbol holds any inherent connections to ki at all, > nevermind earth ki or heaven ki, to a Westerner. Or do they? > > Love and Light, > > Garry ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 71 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:30:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1078230637 65.33.138.52 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:30:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 07:30:37 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14289 I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Reiki Evolution" wrote in message news:40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com... > Dear Garry, > > Many thanks for your message. I didn't mean that "the symbols themselves > have no power of their own, but only gain it by association". The symbols > were introduced as a way of depicting earth ki and heavenly ki, in the way > that chanting a Shinto mantra could elicit those energies within you. CKR > represented earth ki, so you wouldn't experience heavenly ki by meditating > on it. They are a way of 'framing' the energy in a particular way IMO. > > I have been having my students meditate on these symbols for years now, and > without any suggestions of what they might feel they experience the energies > in a similar way; although there are always individual variations, there is > a general consensus about how the energies of the symbols tend to feel for > most people. > > You don't need to be attuned to the things for them to work for you - Usui > didn't attune people to symbols - but once you are connected to Reiki (and > now we know how to do this without using symbols - Reiju) then IMO *any* > symbol will push the energy in a particular direction. > > So when you are working with Reiki you have it all from the word go - earth > ki and heavely ki are already there, and the symbols (or chanting the > kotodama) are ways of experiencing strongly something that is already there: > bringing the energies into greater focus or familiarity. > > Does that make sense? > > > Best wishes, > > > Taggart > www.reiki-evolution.co.uk > 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET... > > Dear Taggart, > > > > Your comments are very much appreciated and quite elucidating! Thank > > you for sharing. But I have a question. If the symbols themselves have > > no power of their own, but only gain it by association, it seems to me > > that one could do the exercise you suggest and learn to feel "earth > > ki" from the 2nd symbol, and "heavenly ki" from the 1st symbol, no? > > After all, neither symbol holds any inherent connections to ki at all, > > nevermind earth ki or heaven ki, to a Westerner. Or do they? > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > > ###### From: "Reiki Evolution" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:32:47 -0000 Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-62-64-220-252.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 2 Mar 2004 13:32:51 GMT, dial-62-64-220-252.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!dial-62-64-220-252.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14290 Dear ShadowWolf, >"I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught"< Many thanks for your message. I was interested to read your thoughtful and considered reply. Best wishes, Taggart www.reiki-evolution.co.uk 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:45:24 GMT Lines: 70 Message-ID: <40448f5c.3827603@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3so.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.152) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078234933 58085097 I 207.69.15.152 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3so.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14291 Dear Taggart, Thank you for clarifying. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, so there's nothing for it but for me to, as Stu said, "get off my McDonalds ass and do the exercise." :-) I'll try it for a couple of weeks and report back. Thanks again, Garry On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:53:11 -0000, "Reiki Evolution" wrote: >Dear Garry, > >Many thanks for your message. I didn't mean that "the symbols themselves >have no power of their own, but only gain it by association". The symbols >were introduced as a way of depicting earth ki and heavenly ki, in the way >that chanting a Shinto mantra could elicit those energies within you. CKR >represented earth ki, so you wouldn't experience heavenly ki by meditating >on it. They are a way of 'framing' the energy in a particular way IMO. > >I have been having my students meditate on these symbols for years now, and >without any suggestions of what they might feel they experience the energies >in a similar way; although there are always individual variations, there is >a general consensus about how the energies of the symbols tend to feel for >most people. > >You don't need to be attuned to the things for them to work for you - Usui >didn't attune people to symbols - but once you are connected to Reiki (and >now we know how to do this without using symbols - Reiju) then IMO *any* >symbol will push the energy in a particular direction. > >So when you are working with Reiki you have it all from the word go - earth >ki and heavely ki are already there, and the symbols (or chanting the >kotodama) are ways of experiencing strongly something that is already there: >bringing the energies into greater focus or familiarity. > >Does that make sense? > > >Best wishes, > > >Taggart >www.reiki-evolution.co.uk >5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET... >> Dear Taggart, >> >> Your comments are very much appreciated and quite elucidating! Thank >> you for sharing. But I have a question. If the symbols themselves have >> no power of their own, but only gain it by association, it seems to me >> that one could do the exercise you suggest and learn to feel "earth >> ki" from the 2nd symbol, and "heavenly ki" from the 1st symbol, no? >> After all, neither symbol holds any inherent connections to ki at all, >> nevermind earth ki or heaven ki, to a Westerner. Or do they? >> >> Love and Light, >> >> Garry > > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:49:27 GMT Lines: 15 Message-ID: <40448ff8.3983025@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3so.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.152) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078235177 58085097 I 207.69.15.152 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3so.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14292 On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:30:37 GMT, "ShadowWolf" wrote: >I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught. Joseph, please stop beating around the bush. Why don't you just come right out and tell us how you really feel? Seriously, though, is it that you've verified something different than what Taggart relates, or is it that you feel that what Taggart has said is largely unverified, or maybe even unverifiable? Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Organization: http://www.metareiki.org Reply-To: steven@metareiki.org Message-ID: References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.116.151.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.com 1078238132 ST000 67.116.151.230 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:35:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:35:32 EST X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_A\S@IRTX[ORON_RXA\JT@QDDMEPWXODMMHXMTWA]EPEWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:35:32 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!diablo.voicenet.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!3db7a031!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14293 During my brief term living in a Zen Center, I had several visions including Usui. I passed them off as fantastical dreams (of wanting validation) at the time, however much of the "instruction" that was passed in those visions has now been validated by new information that has been released. Although I would need to research all of Taggarts posts to state this with complete accuracy, basically everything Taggart has shared about "what Usui did" has resonated with truth from the visions I had many years ago. I have not shared these visions in the past because I do not believe or rely on information gained in that manner - besides everyone would think i'm crazier than they already do (sound familiar, Garry???). On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 13:32:47 -0000, "Reiki Evolution" wrote: >Dear ShadowWolf, > > >>"I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught"< > > >Many thanks for your message. I was interested to read your thoughtful and >considered reply. > > >Best wishes, > > >Taggart >www.reiki-evolution.co.uk >5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > Steven Buck, CMT San Francisco, CA "If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else." -Booker T. Washington ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:47:25 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 24 Message-ID: <40449E7D.57574FFB@imbris.com> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm851-02.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14295 "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > During my brief term living in a Zen Center, I had several visions > including Usui. I passed them off as fantastical dreams (of wanting > validation) at the time, however much of the "instruction" that was > passed in those visions has now been validated by new information that > has been released. > > Although I would need to research all of Taggarts posts to state this > with complete accuracy, basically everything Taggart has shared about > "what Usui did" has resonated with truth from the visions I had many > years ago. > > I have not shared these visions in the past because I do not believe > or rely on information gained in that manner - besides everyone would > think i'm crazier than they already do (sound familiar, Garry???). You know, the man who attuned me had been given his 2nd degree attunement by someone from the SF Zen Center (same one you were in?) who'd said Usui came to him in a dream or vision and told him that one shouldn't be charging money for attunements, so he didn't. Is there something in the water there? sue ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448ff8.3983025@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:58:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1078239528 65.33.138.52 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:58:48 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:58:48 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14296 Hi Gary, The point is that Taggart, although a nice person as far as I know, is spreading both unfounded and unverifiable information regarding what Usui taught. He is not alone in this either and certainly not the first to do so. There was another group which at one point was supposedly a breakoff from Usui's teaching which was called Joi Ray (forget the proper spelling). This group followed in a more spiritual manner and the healing of others was played down although it could be accomplished and they never charged for their healings. In '93 some of the Joi ray actually tried to give a demonstration on the differances between Usui Reiki and their version. Some actually taught Usui Reiki training in addition to their own version. In addition at the same time there were other reports of people teaching out of Japan that were additional breakoffs of Usui. That means other than either Takata or Hayashi. These other teachers were also more involved in being Spiritual than healers. Traditional Japanese reiki became available as well as more supposed info from other non japanese reiki people who claimed that they were priviliged to share the "true" teachings with westerners (this is info that the Japanese supposedly would not share with westerners because we could not begin to honor t or understand?) Somehow by them giving it to one individual with no verification available it became acceptable for the westerners to learn it. every one of these so called original teachings about Reiki is nothing more than techniques found in other healing modalities and other spiritual teachings. In bot cases it would behove the learner to gather the teachings from their original source in their completeness if they so desired to learne about them rather than learning bits and pieces (incomplete). Reiki is non-denominational, contains no Dogma or Doctrine and is equally effective for all regardless of their religious or spiritual practices. It does't work better for Japanese people, Irish people, German people or English people and believe it or not it does't even work better for American people (smiles) Another point is that Taggart even admits there is no verification available but says that he believes his source because his source is not writing a book or trying to make money from it (the info). Well than why is the information and the source readily available Free to all instead of in workshops and why does taggart insinuate that his teachings about Reiki are better? Me? I admit I keep it Simple and have always done so. Most likely I will pass on still keeping it Simple. Why? Because it is Simple. Yes I have taken training in the Japanese style and other variations of Reiki, I have worked in person with Reiki Teachers trained by Takata as well as independents, some of which are quite creative. I have yet to see, any of the claims made make a differance. Being a good writer or web developer doesn't make a specific style of Reiki better or differant. There is a concept that says Sharing is caring and if that holds true than the act of sharing Reiki with others has got to be better than getting stuck in self endulgence. Reiki is Love, Love is to be Shared not held to the Self. It expands or it dies. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40448ff8.3983025@news.Individual.NET... > On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:30:37 GMT, "ShadowWolf" wrote: > > >I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught. > > Joseph, please stop beating around the bush. Why don't you just come > right out and tell us how you really feel? > > Seriously, though, is it that you've verified something different than > what Taggart relates, or is it that you feel that what Taggart has > said is largely unverified, or maybe even unverifiable? > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:00:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1078239639 65.33.138.52 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:00:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:00:39 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14297 Hi Taggart, Sorry for the terminology but I got up on the wrong side of the bed this A.M. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Reiki Evolution" wrote in message news:40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com... > Dear ShadowWolf, > > > >"I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught"< > > > Many thanks for your message. I was interested to read your thoughtful and > considered reply. > > > Best wishes, > > > Taggart > www.reiki-evolution.co.uk > 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > ###### From: "Reiki Evolution" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:08:04 -0000 Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-225-1-63.friaco.access.uk.tiscali.com Message-ID: <4044a358_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> X-Trace: 2 Mar 2004 15:08:08 GMT, ppp-225-1-63.friaco.access.uk.tiscali.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.esat.net!colt.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!ppp-225-1-63.friaco.access.uk.tiscali.com Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14298 I think I misinterpreted your comments actually. I now realise that FOS stands for (F)inally (O)nto (S)omething. Best wishes, Taggart www.reiki-evolution.co.uk 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN "ShadowWolf" wrote in message news:rk11c.178852$Po1.125883@twister.tampabay.rr.com... > Hi Taggart, > > Sorry for the terminology but I got up on the wrong side of the bed this > A.M. > > -- > ShadowWolf > http://www.mysticreiki.com > http://www.reiki.net > "Reiki Evolution" wrote in message > news:40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com... > > Dear ShadowWolf, > > > > > > >"I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught"< > > > > > > Many thanks for your message. I was interested to read your thoughtful and > > considered reply. > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > Taggart > > www.reiki-evolution.co.uk > > 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > > > > > > ###### From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Organization: http://www.metareiki.org Reply-To: steven@metareiki.org Message-ID: <33b9409vo3vc1723g0lv1liqc4ac69u1nc@4ax.com> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40449E7D.57574FFB@imbris.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.116.151.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr27.news.prodigy.com 1078242790 ST000 67.116.151.230 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:53:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:53:10 EST X-UserInfo1: TSUGWXSEAJVWSTLXEJID]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXH@ETUCCNSKQFCY@TXDX_WHSVB]ZEJLSNY\^J[CUVSA_QLFC^RQHUPH[P[NRWCCMLSNPOD_ESALHUK@TDFUZHBLJ\XGKL^NXA\EVHSP[D_C^B_^JCX^W]CHBAX]POG@SSAZQ\LE[DCNMUPG_VSC@VJM Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:53:10 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr27.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!3db7a031!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14299 There is only one SF Zen Center (City Center) that I am aware of, however things change and I am not current as to how many new centers have become established since that time. I did numerous group and private attunements in the early to mid 90's at all levels at the SF Zen Center and did not charge. :-) On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:47:25 -0500, suzee wrote: >"Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: >> >> During my brief term living in a Zen Center, I had several visions >> including Usui. I passed them off as fantastical dreams (of wanting (snip) >You know, the man who attuned me had been given his 2nd degree >attunement by someone from the SF Zen Center (same one you were in?) >who'd said Usui came to him in a dream or vision and told him that one >shouldn't be charging money for attunements, so he didn't. Is there >something in the water there? > >sue Steven Buck, CMT San Francisco, CA "If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else." -Booker T. Washington ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <4044a358_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 62 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:45:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1078245918 65.33.138.52 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:45:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:45:18 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14301 Ha-ha nice try but no cigar for that one. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Reiki Evolution" wrote in message news:4044a358_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com... > I think I misinterpreted your comments actually. I now realise that FOS > stands for (F)inally (O)nto (S)omething. > > > Best wishes, > > > Taggart > www.reiki-evolution.co.uk > 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > > "ShadowWolf" wrote in message > news:rk11c.178852$Po1.125883@twister.tampabay.rr.com... > > Hi Taggart, > > > > Sorry for the terminology but I got up on the wrong side of the bed this > > A.M. > > > > -- > > ShadowWolf > > http://www.mysticreiki.com > > http://www.reiki.net > > "Reiki Evolution" wrote in message > > news:40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com... > > > Dear ShadowWolf, > > > > > > > > > >"I still think you are totally FOS regarding what and how Usui taught"< > > > > > > > > > Many thanks for your message. I was interested to read your thoughtful > and > > > considered reply. > > > > > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > > > > > > Taggart > > > www.reiki-evolution.co.uk > > > 5 Rose Lane, Pinchbeck, Spalding, Lincs PE11 3RN > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:35:08 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4044FE0C.D2EA2DA4@imbris.com> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40449E7D.57574FFB@imbris.com> <33b9409vo3vc1723g0lv1liqc4ac69u1nc@4ax.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm862-39.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14306 "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > There is only one SF Zen Center (City Center) that I am aware of, > however things change and I am not current as to how many new centers > have become established since that time. > > I did numerous group and private attunements in the early to mid 90's > at all levels at the SF Zen Center and did not charge. > > :-) It could have become the practice for those at the Zen Centers to not charge. I received my attunements from this man in 1998, so it was a few years before then that he met the monk there. I'd have to go look in my files for his story. I was curious about both you and my teacher's teacher having `visions' or messages from Usui. I guess when you're tuned into a certain wavelength, you're tuned into it, but good~ :) sue ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:43:08 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <40451bb0.420754@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3a9.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.73) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078270795 57683953 I 207.69.13.73 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3a9.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14307 On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 14:35:32 GMT, "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: >I have not shared these visions in the past because I do not believe >or rely on information gained in that manner - besides everyone would >think i'm crazier than they already do (sound familiar, Garry???). I have no idea what you're talking about! Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 23:54:40 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <40451d46.826653@news.Individual.NET> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448ff8.3983025@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3a9.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.73) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078271487 59039451 I 207.69.13.73 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3a9.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14308 Joseph, thanks very much for laying it out for me. I certainly understand the need for verifying sources before swallowing them whole hog. Speaking of which, the book that this thread was started with not only footnotes the sources of their information, but also lists contact info, e-mail and snail mail addresses, ph numbers, etc for their sources so in case you want to check it out for yourself, you can (assuming one has the time and resources, of course). So far I've found it a fairly balanced work, with the authors making no claims themselves, just outlining what others claim, and if they were able to verify it or not, and if so, how or with whom. Very nicely researched, and a good jumping off place for more research. If you ever feel inclined to do any research, I would highly recommend you start with the Reiki Sourcebook. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "Steven Buck, CMT" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Organization: http://www.metareiki.org Reply-To: steven@metareiki.org Message-ID: <4hac40ljrv0euvk15g7mm2uru7descfuh1@4ax.com> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40449E7D.57574FFB@imbris.com> <33b9409vo3vc1723g0lv1liqc4ac69u1nc@4ax.com> <4044FE0C.D2EA2DA4@imbris.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.116.151.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr25.news.prodigy.com 1078340284 ST000 67.116.151.230 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:58:04 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:58:04 EST X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@IRTX[ORON_RXA\JT@QDDMEPWXODMMHXMTWA]EPMTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:58:04 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.glorb.com!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr25.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!3db7a031!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14318 I would be interested in hearing his story. If he was attuned there a few years prior to 1998, it may very well have been by me. Thanks On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:35:08 -0500, suzee wrote: (snip) >It could have become the practice for those at the Zen Centers to not >charge. I received my attunements from this man in 1998, so it was a few >years before then that he met the monk there. I'd have to go look in my >files for his story. (snip) >sue Steven Buck, CMT San Francisco, CA "If you want to lift yourself up, lift up someone else." -Booker T. Washington ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 21:47:41 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 10 Message-ID: <404698CD.2362C352@imbris.com> References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <404363d5_3@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40440d49.3926031@news.Individual.NET> <40444b7a_2@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40448d03_1@mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com> <40449E7D.57574FFB@imbris.com> <33b9409vo3vc1723g0lv1liqc4ac69u1nc@4ax.com> <4044FE0C.D2EA2DA4@imbris.com> <4hac40ljrv0euvk15g7mm2uru7descfuh1@4ax.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm793-09.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14320 "Steven Buck, CMT" wrote: > > I would be interested in hearing his story. If he was attuned there a > few years prior to 1998, it may very well have been by me. Alrighty. I'll go through my stuff and look for it. His first name was Shridar, can't remember the last, and I say was because he is no longer. A sad story which I'll relate later. sue ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40409b7e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4041dea4.6368047@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 10 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <50y1c.7691$YN5.6358@nwrdny03.gnilink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:11:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.236.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1078373505 162.83.236.182 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:11:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:11:45 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!feeder2.ecngs.de!217.73.144.44.MISMATCH!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!news.glorb.com!wn52feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14324 thanks. i needed that vote of confidence. "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4041dea4.6368047@news.Individual.NET... > > Short *and* sweet! Damn, but she's good! > > Garry > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <4041dea4.6368047@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:12:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.236.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1078373546 162.83.236.182 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:12:26 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:12:26 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14325 no need to point out the obvious "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040229133618.2824I@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (Garry Williams) wrote: > > > Short *and* sweet! Damn, but she's good! > > Yes ... nice one, Ginger .. > > See what happens when you don't give it the verbal > diarrhoea .. :) > > Stuart > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:16:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.236.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1078373770 162.83.236.182 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:16:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:16:10 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14326 > > Agree with Stuart, but...it wouldn't hurt to say the precepts to > yourself first thing in the morning when you get up and last thing at > night before you go to bed. :-) yeah. first i got to work on getting up in the morning. i roll out of bed 10 to 15 minutes before i leave the house. just enough time to get dressed and pop my yeast free multigrain waffles into the toaster (fooling myself into thinking i am eating a healthy breakfast). of course i hit snooze about 8 times first. . . > > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <403f3d6c.3329862@news.Individual.NET> <403fcdf9.1451645@news.Individual.NET> <40424EB4.9D20638D@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 3 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:18:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.236.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1078373905 162.83.236.182 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:18:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:18:25 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14327 thanks alex! ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 3 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 04:18:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.236.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1078373929 162.83.236.182 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:18:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:18:49 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14328 thanks. ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:57:50 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4047eb37.444043@news.Individual.NET> References: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3uo.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.216) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078455269 61562550 I 207.69.15.216 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3uo.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14348 I know what you mean about hitting the snooze button a few times too many (7 is probably "a few", right? ). You and I are both probably not getting enough rest, ie staying up too late when we know we have to get up early. Also, all the other issues you mention elsewhere make me think of depression, which sleeping too much can be a sign of. Just something to think about and look into. Apart from that, try to tackle just one thing at a time, ie, practice going to sleep at a regular time. Once you start getting your beauty rest, that may help you to tackle whipping other parts of your life into organized shape. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <4041df2b.6502832@news.Individual.NET> <4047eb37.444043@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Reiki Sourcebook and the Symbols Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 04:10:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.223.129 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1078459857 162.83.223.129 (Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:10:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:10:57 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.glorb.com!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!f3340854!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14354 i have suffered from depression in the past and i dont consider myself depressed right now. i tend to stay up like you said. i give myself only about 3-5 hours of sleep a night and tend to feel rested only when i have 9 or 10 hours so that right there is a big part of the problem for sure. the result tends to mimic depression i think. what i have is more like apathy right now i think. but then again i think i went through 4 years of college with a low level of depression (it wasn't until after college that i suffered from a climical depression that couldn't fool myself or others) so i may just be used to that state and not even recognize it. i don't know. tonight i was trying to go to bed earlier. it's already after 11 but i didnt take a nap today to make sure that i fall asleep when my head hits the pillow. "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4047eb37.444043@news.Individual.NET... > I know what you mean about hitting the snooze button a few times too > many (7 is probably "a few", right? ). You and I are both probably > not getting enough rest, ie staying up too late when we know we have > to get up early. Also, all the other issues you mention elsewhere make > me think of depression, which sleeping too much can be a sign of. Just > something to think about and look into. Apart from that, try to tackle > just one thing at a time, ie, practice going to sleep at a regular > time. Once you start getting your beauty rest, that may help you to > tackle whipping other parts of your life into organized shape. > > Love and Light, > > Garry >