X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Reiki evolution Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:47:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1077209255 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:47:35 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 09:47:35 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13882 This may be a repetition in thought and with the indepth discussions happening in a couple of threads, I am still left with a couple of ponderings.....as humans have evolved over centuries, whereabouts in the process did some kind of universal energy get born? As humans continue to evolve, does this energy evolve also or just our access to it? I'm going way out on a limb here and suggesting that computer technology will advance beyond our present comprehension and someday respond more as humans do. When do they 'inherit' UE? Also, is there some kind of energy or life beginning to appear on the Web, whereby we are all somehow the 'cells' in this creation or creations? Some philosophers infer that 'knowledge is energy' and therefore the continuous interchange of us all is akin to the birth of spirituality and religion, etc. Would healing occur if an android said, "ROTW"? Yeah, it's one of those days. :) Cheers Rich ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 10:42:42 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 84 Message-ID: <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-952.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13886 On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:47:35 GMT, Rich wrote: >This may be a repetition in thought and with the indepth discussions >happening in a couple of threads, I am still left with a couple of >ponderings.....as humans have evolved over centuries, whereabouts in the >process did some kind of universal energy get born? Traditional healers, shamans, yogis, and others of similar character and role in societies have said that the basic UE (or prajna, Mind of God, wellspring of life, etc, etc) is eternal and fundamental. The yogic traditions of India in many cases discriminate a variety of special forms or basic modifications of this energy or consciousness (sat/chit). Some schools of Indian philosophy have long conceived of a grand cycle of expansion and contraction of the universe, a kind of birth and rebirth. >As humans continue to evolve, does this energy evolve also or just our >access to it? Some Western "new age" philosophers (e.g., Eric Scott Pearl) believe and teach that new streams of energy are being made available to humans -- a kind of new dispensation. Against that line of belief, you could read of the healing miracles attributed to various ancient and semi-modern individuals born within the Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Taoist, and indigenous traditions, and contend that little if anything has happened in the "new age" healing scene of the last 100 years that exceeds (or even equals) occurences of the past. In this view, all that may be occuring on Earth is a spreading, popularization, or democratization. >I'm going way out on a limb here and suggesting that >computer technology will advance beyond our present comprehension and >someday respond more as humans do. When do they 'inherit' UE? It's a question as to whether they can, or will -- or won't. Some of the yogis encountering Western science and Western society over the last 50-100 years have asserted that the energies involved in spiritual healing and psychism are not fundamentally electro-magnetic (even when it can be shown that a parallel and corresponding electro-magnetic influence is concurrnetly present, as during a healing session). It has been long accepted in much of South and East Asia that a human being something like "a set of nested boxes." For instance, in one formulation, there is the physical (flesh, bones, nerve cells, etc), the pranic or etheric (electrical and the more subtle-energetic levels), the astral, the mental, and the buddhic. The physical, etheric, and astral (while a person is living on Earth) are thought of as occupying roughly the same space, while the higher planes are not limited by time & space in the same way. >Also, is there some kind of energy or life beginning to appear on the >Web, whereby we are all somehow the 'cells' in this creation or >creations? Maybe it's not essentially happening on the Web, even if we are *using* the Web as the means of communication -- an extended form of writing or talking. >Some philosophers infer that 'knowledge is energy' and >therefore the continuous interchange of us all is akin to the birth of >spirituality and religion, etc. I believe a widespread change is occuring on our planet, but I have doubts about the idea that none of our human forebears had access to these potentials and energies before. >Would healing occur if an android said, "ROTW"? I remember Chamundi felt he had had a "healing" effect on a washing machine. The theory might be that a "lower plane" can be influenced from a "higher plane" aspect of a human being. Namaste, montane ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:32:14 +0000 Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1077219415 26610 194.222.30.223 (19 Feb 2004 19:36:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:36:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13888 montane writes > >I remember Chamundi felt he had had a "healing" effect on a >washing machine. But did the washing machine have a "healing" effect on Chamundi ? Over and above, of course, its usual cleansing cycle ... -- Judy ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 130 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:50:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1077223829 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:50:29 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:50:29 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fi.sn.net!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13891 Hi montane, Excuse the long-windedness. A wise person once said that we humans seem to 'take our past, place it in front of us and then live into it'. So our future is really our past and we are forever trying to 'fix/change/apologize for' the past rather than creating a new future. So, are we living in a world that we are trying to understand or are we actually creating it as we go? Once we create something...then we are immediately at the effect of it, as it suddenly or quickly takes on a life of its own.(then we are left with the past!) montane wrote: > > > Traditional healers, shamans, yogis, and others of similar > character and role in societies have said that the basic UE (or > prajna, Mind of God, wellspring of life, etc, etc) is eternal and > fundamental. For the sake of probing beyond 'tradition' I am suggesting that maybe tradition is just neatly packaged so we can get on with other things in life like conquering our neighbors! Our gods are created to provide any justice that we miss out on delivering if we lose the war! :) > > The yogic traditions of India in many cases discriminate a > variety of special forms or basic modifications of this energy or > consciousness (sat/chit). Some schools of Indian philosophy have > long conceived of a grand cycle of expansion and contraction of > the universe, a kind of birth and rebirth. Okay, and what does this birth entail? We say the birth of the universe was a big bang or maybe the big bang was really the words of the gods becoming manifest. Is our communication somehow biological? Scientists claim that our brain grows in size as we learn. A bigger hard drive? How long does this birthing take place? Centuries? Then we can only watch something in its early stage of birth and maybe nourish it, not knowing just what we are nourishing? Reiki must really be in its very infancy and we only get to watch for a little while? Or are we directly affecting its evolution? > > >As humans continue to evolve, does this energy evolve also or just our > >access to it? > > Some Western "new age" philosophers (e.g., Eric Scott Pearl) > believe and teach that new streams of energy are being made > available to humans -- a kind of new dispensation. > Is the healing energy present and we need to 'declare' its existence or is it 'born' as we communicate or invent it? > > >I'm going way out on a limb here and suggesting that > >computer technology will advance beyond our present comprehension and > >someday respond more as humans do. When do they 'inherit' UE? > > It's a question as to whether they can, or will -- or won't. Actually, I think the question will be whether they 'need to'. We have created our gods and religions because we have felt the need to, as a means of surviving this mysterious lifetime. (Just theory, of course) > > It has been long accepted in much of South and East Asia that a > human being something like "a set of nested boxes." > For instance, in one formulation, there is the physical (flesh, > bones, nerve cells, etc), the pranic or etheric (electrical and > the more subtle-energetic levels), the astral, the mental, and > the buddhic. The physical, etheric, and astral (while a person > is living on Earth) are thought of as occupying roughly the same > space, while the higher planes are not limited by time & space in > the same way. Are you suggesting that after a certain degree of complexity, humans jump to a higher plane? This would probably occur as the birth of consciousness? So I guess I am exploring just what is consciousness? Do we look at it as being able to discern feelings like love, etc? Aren't these feelings just reactions until we distinguish them? If so, couldn't our robot's chip 'react' to stimuli and 'see' pulses that are then translated in its chip as 'love' or 'hate' etc.? We could send 'calming energy' to the chip and the stimuli would dissipate. > >Also, is there some kind of energy or life beginning to appear on the > >Web, whereby we are all somehow the 'cells' in this creation or > >creations? > > Maybe it's not essentially happening on the Web, even if we are > *using* the Web as the means of communication -- an extended form > of writing or talking. Ah, now we are getting into it.....it has also been said that 'who we are' are the words coming out of our mouths. As an example, you could hear someone speak and you don't identify him/her as their person but maybe as 'justice', 'healing' 'love' etc. That's a different kind of energy, no? > > >Some philosophers infer that 'knowledge is energy' and > >therefore the continuous interchange of us all is akin to the birth of > >spirituality and religion, etc. > > I believe a widespread change is occuring on our planet, but I > have doubts about the idea that none of our human forebears had > access to these potentials and energies before. What I am wondering is if they really did have any access or did they create the energy potentials and then identify them as they advanced in neuro-complexity? > > >Would healing occur if an android said, "ROTW"? > > I remember Chamundi felt he had had a "healing" effect on a > washing machine. Would definitely be more interesting to feel healing FROM the washing machine! :) > > The theory might be that a "lower plane" can be influenced from a > "higher plane" aspect of a human being. Probably this is going on all the time (depending on 'higher' 'lower') and we get blocked along the way? Or is 'blocked' another interpretation that we use instead of "Heck, I don't know!" Cheers Rich ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4035297F.D3A51995@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:25:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1077225935 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:25:35 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:25:35 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13895 Was in a discussion one day and a friend said, "Rich, you are brain-washed!" Umm. Well, yes, of course! Then he caught himself and said, "No, I mean you are REALLY brain-washed!" I said, yes, of course. :) Judy Rigby wrote: > > montane writes > > > >I remember Chamundi felt he had had a "healing" effect on a > >washing machine. > > But did the washing machine have a "healing" effect on Chamundi ? Over > and above, of course, its usual cleansing cycle ... > > -- > Judy ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:44:34 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 159 Message-ID: References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-119.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13899 On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:50:29 GMT, Rich wrote: Rich, First of all I'll say that, for myself, I have mainly followed the path of new-vista experiences and practical programs (practices), and am only secondarily interested in theories. The reason I've brought up the theories at all is that in my path of practice, and in my meetings with other people who have been on their own paths of practice, this kind of information seeps in. You get it from teachers (sensei, masters, whatever), fellow practitioners, and the literature that is available within these training places. >So, are we living in a world that we are trying to understand or are we >actually creating it as we go? Once we create something...then we are >immediately at the effect of it, as it suddenly or quickly takes on a >life of its own.(then we are left with the past!) > That's the sort of question that I might respond to in one way now, another way in an hour or a week. But, how's this? -- We are living in a world which we are creating as we go, and trying to understand it (though some people are not motivated to try to understand, and that's okay). The human social/spiritual world. > >For the sake of probing beyond 'tradition' I am suggesting that maybe >tradition is just neatly packaged so we can get on with other things >in life like conquering our neighbors! Our gods are created to provide >any justice that we miss out on delivering if we lose the war! :) >> The point you are responding to above was not my reference to traditions but to traditional *practitioners* (healers, shamans, "psychics," mystics). > >Okay, and what does this birth entail? We say the birth of the universe >was a big bang or maybe the big bang was really the words of the gods >becoming manifest. Is our communication somehow biological? Scientists >claim >that our brain grows in size as we learn. A bigger hard drive? >How long does this birthing take place? Centuries? Then we can only >watch Better to put these questions to Vedantic scholars -- and to astronomers, astro-physicists, neurophysiologists, and the like. >something in its early stage of birth and maybe nourish it, not knowing >just what we are nourishing? Reiki must really be in its very infancy >and we only get to watch for a little while? Or are we directly >affecting >its evolution? If we are active in the communication surrounding Reiki today (West or East), or if we are attuning and training people, or if we are offering healing sessions, then I'd say we are involved in its evolution -- as far as this evolution is manifested among us humans -- socially, culturally, institutionally, etc. > >Is the healing energy present and we need to 'declare' its existence >or is it 'born' as we communicate or invent it? One time about 10 years ago I had a special sort of dream (will leave out the details) and later in the day I was asked by someone to give her a back rub, and she told me there was amazing "heat" coming out of my hands. I had no idea that was happening, and hadn't expected anything like it. That was nearly seven years before my Reiki attunment. You might say I discovered something for myself. Didn't declare it, though. Novice catches a nice trout in his first hour at the creek, surprises someone (and he did it while sleepwalking)! :-) And my Reiki attunement three years ago was, for me, the beginning of something much more lasting and productive of results, I'd say. > >Actually, I think the question will be whether they 'need to'. We have >created >our gods and religions because we have felt the need to, as a means of >surviving this mysterious lifetime. (Just theory, of course) I was a student of anthropology at the same time that I majored in psychology. Your statement would have been something my professors and I would have accepted. But since then I've seriously considered the possible validity of two other interpretations: We discovered gods whose existence is as real as yours or mine; or, We made up our interpretations of vaguely sensed spiritual presences who are as real as you or me. > >Are you suggesting that after a certain degree of complexity, humans >jump to a higher plane? This would probably occur as the birth of >consciousness? Maybe I'm suggesting that -- I'm not quite sure what your words mean to you. I'd say the other planes are part and parcel of who we are, and that we can move, at times, into consciousness of those levels. We may then drop back into our everyday level completely, or the new level may remain accessible to us and in essence we've 'come to live on another plane'. >So I guess I am exploring just what is consciousness? I don't feel like getting long-winded on an attempted answer to that. How about "the fingertip that can't touch itself'? >If so, couldn't our robot's chip 'react' to stimuli and 'see' pulses >that are >then translated in its chip as 'love' or 'hate' etc.? Recognition of those "pulses" by the cloaks they wear. >> Maybe it's not essentially happening on the Web, even if we are >> *using* the Web as the means of communication -- an extended form >> of writing or talking. > >Ah, now we are getting into it.....it has also been said that 'who we >are' are the words coming out of our mouths. You've stated a sort of subtle form of the "existentialism" of the 1950s. Sartre said (paraphrase) "a man is what he does" i.e., he makes himself. For my part, I believe this is true -- in a certain limited way. >> >> >Some philosophers infer that 'knowledge is energy' and >> >therefore the continuous interchange of us all is akin to the birth of >> >spirituality and religion, etc. >> It may be the birth of something like that, but it's the birth of a form (or possibly a dispensation), not the birth of something that hasn't existed in *any* form before, IMO. >> I believe a widespread change is occuring on our planet, but I >> have doubts about the idea that none of our human forebears had >> access to these potentials and energies before. > >What I am wondering is if they really did have any access or did they >create the energy potentials and then identify them as they advanced in >neuro-complexity? >> You could interpret it the way you're suggesting. Have you read Ken Wilber (transpersonal-psychology theorist)? He's worked a lot of interesting stuff out, in his system of thought. I won't attempt anything like that. Blessings, montane ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:57:01 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-383.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13903 On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:44:34 -0800, montane wrote: >> >>Are you suggesting that after a certain degree of complexity, humans >>jump to a higher plane? This would probably occur as the birth of >>consciousness? > Thought of something else: I believe that in order for us to be as conscious of something subtle (healing energies, "psychic" information, etc) as we can be of our own breathing or pulse, our neurophysiology must change or grow. montane ###### Message-ID: <403557EC.87B7DAA1@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 60 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:37:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077237423 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:37:03 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:37:03 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!feedme.news.mediaways.net!telefonica.de!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13904 montane wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:44:34 -0800, montane > wrote: > > >> > >>Are you suggesting that after a certain degree of complexity, humans > >>jump to a higher plane? This would probably occur as the birth of > >>consciousness? > > > Thought of something else: I believe that in order for us to be > as conscious of something subtle (healing energies, "psychic" > information, etc) as we can be of our own breathing or pulse, our > neurophysiology must change or grow. > > montane With that thought of growth in mind, what do you think of this news article? Note what is said in the first paragraph. http://www.kare11.com/news/news-article.asp?NEWS_ID=59798 Studies Look at Empathy, Placebo's Power Brain power may have more to do with pain than we think. A new study reported in the latest edition of the journal Science shows some of the same brain regions involved in feeling physical pain become activated when someone empathizes with another's pain. In addition, a different brain-scanning study found that when it's time to feel better, thinking that a drug helps can make it so -- a finding that researchers say catches the power of placebo in action. Because doctors know the placebo effect is real, they talk up the benefits of a drug as they write the prescription. But the effect had been assumed to be psychological. Doctor Jon Levine, a pain specialist at the University of California, San Francisco, says these results show placebo is actually due to a physiological weakening of the pain signal. (Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40355F47.7161DA7F@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:15:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1077239703 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:15:03 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:15:03 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newspeer1-win.server.ntli.net!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13905 Right. That's why Oog and Oogla, thousands of years ago, had no concept of healing energy, etc. Ooops! I should say AFAIK! Maybe they did and didn't have the language to describe it! Maybe that's when they invented their gods? That last sentence wasn't meant for you, montane. I am still of the mindset that we created our gods in our image, rather than vice versa, and I know you are of a different persuasion. How strong am I about my mindset? Well, if I was broke I could change my mind for a tall sudsy! :) Cheers Rich montane wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:44:34 -0800, montane > wrote: > > >> > >>Are you suggesting that after a certain degree of complexity, humans > >>jump to a higher plane? This would probably occur as the birth of > >>consciousness? > > > Thought of something else: I believe that in order for us to be > as conscious of something subtle (healing energies, "psychic" > information, etc) as we can be of our own breathing or pulse, our > neurophysiology must change or grow. > > montane ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4035603D.6A348BF8@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <403557EC.87B7DAA1@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 67 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:19:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1077239950 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:19:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:19:10 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13906 Well here's also something of interest. http://edition.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/conditions/02/09/cancer.optimism.ap/index.html Rich Alex Barna wrote: > > montane wrote: > > > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 15:44:34 -0800, montane > > wrote: > > > > >> > > >>Are you suggesting that after a certain degree of complexity, humans > > >>jump to a higher plane? This would probably occur as the birth of > > >>consciousness? > > > > > Thought of something else: I believe that in order for us to be > > as conscious of something subtle (healing energies, "psychic" > > information, etc) as we can be of our own breathing or pulse, our > > neurophysiology must change or grow. > > > > montane > > With that thought of growth in mind, what do you think of this news article? > Note what is said in the first paragraph. > > http://www.kare11.com/news/news-article.asp?NEWS_ID=59798 > > Studies Look at Empathy, Placebo's Power > > Brain power may have more to do with pain than we think. > > A new study reported in the latest edition of the journal Science shows some > of the same brain regions involved in feeling physical pain become activated > when someone empathizes with another's pain. > > In addition, a different brain-scanning study found that when it's time to > feel better, thinking that a drug helps can make it so -- a finding that > researchers say catches the power of placebo in action. > > Because doctors know the placebo effect is real, they talk up the benefits > of a drug as they write the prescription. But the effect had been assumed to be > psychological. > > Doctor Jon Levine, a pain specialist at the University of California, San > Francisco, says these results show placebo is actually due to a physiological > weakening of the pain signal. > > (Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:40:17 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: <2roa30l5qqdnfrtif9quhji9d9t7b8uo4g@4ax.com> References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <40355F47.7161DA7F@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-882.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!129.250.175.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13912 On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:15:03 GMT, Rich wrote: >Right. That's why Oog and Oogla, thousands of years ago, >had no concept of healing energy, etc. Ooops! I should say AFAIK! Maybe >they did and didn't have the language to describe it! Maybe that's when >they invented their gods? >That last sentence wasn't meant for you, montane. I am still of the >mindset that we created our gods in our image, rather than vice versa, >and I know you are of a different persuasion. How strong am I about my >mindset? Well, if I was broke I could change my mind for a tall sudsy! >:) We may "image" them in terms of ourselves. That doesn't concern me much. The levels or dimensions of the "self" which I spoke of are found within ourselves. It does not offend me to think that other beings, as real as you or me, operate without the physical or physical-etheric body with which we are familiar. It's fun to bounce around these kinds of considerations. And I like communicating with the people on this newsgroup. ;-) But on the sheer fun level, might we not prefer to shoot down the rapids, or watch bears eat lunch, or cast a trout line, ski down a slope, or drive a dogsled?! Often my time on this group feels more important than most kinds of fun (or than a beer). m. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4035664B.6D4A7234@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:45:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1077241500 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:45:00 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:45:00 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13907 montane wrote: Yes, I've read Ken Wilber. As a point of interest, montane, Erikson College in Vancouver is doing some development work with Ken. They offer a workshop in Four Quadrant Thinking, using some of his stuff. Yep, his work is very thorough. He himself said in an interview that he reads thousands of books in researching his writings. I was interviewed a couple of years ago by a consultant firm (out of Austin, TX) that did work in industrial safety. They used Ken's transpersonal stuff in setting up their work philosophy. Cheers Rich > >What I am wondering is if they really did have any access or did they > >create the energy potentials and then identify them as they advanced in > >neuro-complexity? > >> > > You could interpret it the way you're suggesting. Have you read > Ken Wilber (transpersonal-psychology theorist)? He's worked a > lot of interesting stuff out, in his system of thought. I won't > attempt anything like that. > > Blessings, > > montane ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:34:41 GMT Lines: 51 Message-ID: <4035720f.3483185@news.Individual.NET> References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <403557EC.87B7DAA1@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.14.50) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077244087 48264819 I 207.69.14.50 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13914 Ohmigosh. You mean Kevin (Arthealer) was completely, 100% correct? =:o Garry On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:37:03 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >With that thought of growth in mind, what do you think of this news article? >Note what is said in the first paragraph. > >http://www.kare11.com/news/news-article.asp?NEWS_ID=59798 > >Studies Look at Empathy, Placebo's Power > > Brain power may have more to do with pain than we think. > > A new study reported in the latest edition of the journal Science shows some >of the same brain regions involved in feeling physical pain become activated >when someone empathizes with another's pain. > > In addition, a different brain-scanning study found that when it's time to >feel better, thinking that a drug helps can make it so -- a finding that >researchers say catches the power of placebo in action. > > Because doctors know the placebo effect is real, they talk up the benefits >of a drug as they write the prescription. But the effect had been assumed to be >psychological. > > Doctor Jon Levine, a pain specialist at the University of California, San >Francisco, says these results show placebo is actually due to a physiological >weakening of the pain signal. > > (Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) > >GramPaHugs, >Alex, > >-- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > >**************************************************** >* Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn >* AOL Click >* AOL Click >* Don't worry about life, >* you're not going to survive it anyway >**************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:41:40 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: <4035730d.3736930@news.Individual.NET> References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <403557EC.87B7DAA1@mn.rr.com> <4035603D.6A348BF8@shaw.ca> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.14.50) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077244506 47008196 I 207.69.14.50 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13915 On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:19:10 GMT, Rich wrote: >Well here's also something of interest. >http://edition.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/conditions/02/09/cancer.optimism.ap/index.html It seems to me that trying to put on a happy face when things are going to hell in a handbasket would be very stressful, hence one winds up shooting one's self in the foot. Perhaps less prescribed optimism and more Reiki would be more helpful for reducing their stress. Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40357A5E.51F650B1@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <40355F47.7161DA7F@shaw.ca> <2roa30l5qqdnfrtif9quhji9d9t7b8uo4g@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:10:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1077246639 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:10:39 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:10:39 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13920 Okay. montane wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:15:03 GMT, Rich wrote: > > >Right. That's why Oog and Oogla, thousands of years ago, > >had no concept of healing energy, etc. Ooops! I should say AFAIK! Maybe > >they did and didn't have the language to describe it! Maybe that's when > >they invented their gods? > > >That last sentence wasn't meant for you, montane. I am still of the > >mindset that we created our gods in our image, rather than vice versa, > >and I know you are of a different persuasion. How strong am I about my > >mindset? Well, if I was broke I could change my mind for a tall sudsy! > >:) > > We may "image" them in terms of ourselves. That doesn't concern > me much. The levels or dimensions of the "self" which I spoke of > are found within ourselves. It does not offend me to think that > other beings, as real as you or me, operate without the physical > or physical-etheric body with which we are familiar. > > It's fun to bounce around these kinds of considerations. And I > like communicating with the people on this newsgroup. ;-) > > But on the sheer fun level, might we not prefer to shoot down the > rapids, or watch bears eat lunch, or cast a trout line, ski down > a slope, or drive a dogsled?! > > Often my time on this group feels more important than most kinds > of fun (or than a beer). > > m. ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:22:25 GMT Lines: 9 Message-ID: <40357d42.6349740@news.Individual.NET> References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <40355F47.7161DA7F@shaw.ca> <2roa30l5qqdnfrtif9quhji9d9t7b8uo4g@4ax.com> <40357A5E.51F650B1@shaw.ca> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31k.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.52) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077246951 48226712 I 207.69.12.52 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31k.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13923 On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:10:39 GMT, Rich wrote: >Okay. Rich, could you shorten your comments up? You're getting way too long winded for us to be able to follow easily. ;-) Garry ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4035830F.E50DBA4B@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <40355F47.7161DA7F@shaw.ca> <2roa30l5qqdnfrtif9quhji9d9t7b8uo4g@4ax.com> <40357A5E.51F650B1@shaw.ca> <40357d42.6349740@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:47:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1077248864 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:47:44 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:47:44 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.mountaincable.net!news.glorb.com!prodigy.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13924 Okay. Garry Williams wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:10:39 GMT, Rich wrote: > > >Okay. > > Rich, could you shorten your comments up? You're getting way too long > winded for us to be able to follow easily. ;-) > > Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Reiki evolution Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:29:19 GMT Lines: 17 Message-ID: <40360ba8.619613@news.Individual.NET> References: <4034E857.925A221B@shaw.ca> <99v9309972c9kh5nu8jmcvtrmbpdkngqsj@4ax.com> <40352144.55C01884@shaw.ca> <40355F47.7161DA7F@shaw.ca> <2roa30l5qqdnfrtif9quhji9d9t7b8uo4g@4ax.com> <40357A5E.51F650B1@shaw.ca> <40357d42.6349740@news.Individual.NET> <4035830F.E50DBA4B@shaw.ca> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3k7.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.14.135) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077283363 43616131 I 207.69.14.135 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3k7.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13929 On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:47:44 GMT, Rich wrote: >Okay. > >Garry Williams wrote: >> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:10:39 GMT, Rich wrote: >> >> >Okay. >> >> Rich, could you shorten your comments up? You're getting way too long >> winded for us to be able to follow easily. ;-) >> >> Garry