From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> Subject: Flow or state Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:32:45 +0200 Lines: 72 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 17 Feb 2004 20:34:26 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13822 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > IMO/IME all that is required is the thought or intent for healing to be done for > the UE to become activated to a state conducive to healing. > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't have mass > so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". [snip ...] > IMO/IME I do at least I think I do. :) People can relate to the word Universal > Energy so that is the word I now use to refer to what I perceive as a Golden > Mist that I have been able to see & feel since birth. UE is every thing. It is > what everything is made of & it is every where. It doesn't flow or distort it > only changes 'state' that I perceive as a change in color. > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The "flow" > that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using to help > change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in healing. ~Alex, this is the second post I can remember where you refer to Reiki as a state. I would like you tell us a bit more about this idea. I am trying to wrap my mind around it and somehow I am not too sucessful in it. However, it may very well be a very useful model, even if it serves only as an alternative explanation to other people. In my mind, states are usually more or less distinct, although they may be characterised by certain activities. If we take consciousness, the waking state may well be characterised by constant activity on a mental plane, more or less logical activity. The dream state may be characterised by "irrational" activity of a kind that does not always reach consciousness. The deep sleep state may be one of low brain activity. All of them are also associated with a body state. Question which come to the fore are: Do you see the Reiki state in a similar way? What would move us from one state to another? Is there any association with specific cycles, voluntary or involuntary behavior which would enable us to "measure" them? Something like the emotional scales used in scientology or David Hawkins' map of human consciousness? Is there any "inertia" in these states? Are there clearly defined states or is is there a continuum? What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state and is a change sort of a "self-locking" thing or does it have to be maintained deliberately? By this I mean that if we get into a "good" Reiki state will it stay that way until some greater force knocks us out of it? Or is "average" the normal thing and the "good" state only persists as long as we make the effort? I realize that your answers may contain a lot of IMO's. My guess is that they are more than just your opinions but are actually your guiding principles for your Reiki practice and to hear of other models of Reiki in more depth would be great. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 10:53:48 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 62 Message-ID: <6bo4301eqlh02l9ihhvtftk235efs4t4sd@4ax.com> References: <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-066.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13825 Peter, Not presuming to explain Alex's views, but I'll mention that when I came on this board three and a half years ago, the "flow" and "state" models were represented by some AHR veterans. You can read the old archived posts on Google Groups. You can find them on G. by way of their names, and the search term *flow* would probably be a good additional word. Two Bears strongly held the "flow" idea, while Gabriel (I believe his full name is Gabriel Shivers) held the "state" idea. montane On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:32:45 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >> The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The >"flow" >> that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using to help >> change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in healing. > >~Alex, > >this is the second post I can remember where you refer to Reiki >as a state. I would like you tell us a bit more about this idea. I am >trying to wrap my mind around it and somehow I am not too >sucessful in it. However, it may very well be a very useful model, >even if it serves only as an alternative explanation to other people. >In my mind, states are usually more or less distinct, although >they may be characterised by certain activities. If we take >consciousness, the waking state may well be characterised by >constant activity on a mental plane, more or less logical activity. >The dream state may be characterised by "irrational" activity of >a kind that does not always reach consciousness. The deep sleep >state may be one of low brain activity. All of them are also associated >with a body state. >Question which come to the fore are: >Do you see the Reiki state in a similar way? >What would move us from one state to another? >Is there any association with specific cycles, voluntary or involuntary >behavior >which would enable us to "measure" them? Something like the emotional >scales used in scientology or David Hawkins' map of human consciousness? >Is there any "inertia" in these states? >Are there clearly defined states or is is there a continuum? >What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state >and is a change sort of a "self-locking" thing or does it have to >be maintained deliberately? By this I mean that if we get into a >"good" Reiki state will it stay that way until some greater force >knocks us out of it? Or is "average" the normal thing and the >"good" state only persists as long as we make the effort? > >I realize that your answers may contain a lot of IMO's. My guess is >that they are more than just your opinions but are actually your guiding >principles for your Reiki practice and to hear of other models of Reiki >in more depth would be great. ###### Message-ID: <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 146 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:07:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077059228 65.30.225.94 (Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:07:08 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:07:08 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!image.surnet.ru!cyclone.bc.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13830 pr wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > > > IMO/IME all that is required is the thought or intent for healing to be > > done for the UE to become activated to a state conducive to healing. > > > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't > > have mass so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > > [snip ...] > > > IMO/IME I do at least I think I do. :) People can relate to the word > > Universal Energy so that is the word I now use to refer to what I > >perceive as a Golden Mist that I have been able to see & feel since birth. > > > UE is every thing. It is what everything is made of & it is every where. > > It doesn't flow or distort it only changes 'state' that I perceive as a > > change in color. > > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The > > "flow" that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using > >to help change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in > > healing. > > ~Alex, > > this is the second post I can remember where you refer to Reiki > as a state. I would like you tell us a bit more about this idea. I am > trying to wrap my mind around it and somehow I am not too > sucessful in it. However, it may very well be a very useful model, > even if it serves only as an alternative explanation to other people. > In my mind, states are usually more or less distinct, although > they may be characterised by certain activities. If we take > consciousness, the waking state may well be characterised by > constant activity on a mental plane, more or less logical activity. > The dream state may be characterised by "irrational" activity of > a kind that does not always reach consciousness. The deep sleep > state may be one of low brain activity. All of them are also associated > with a body state. > Question which come to the fore are: > Do you see the Reiki state in a similar way? OK, I use the term 'state' because it does relate similarly to the states of mind examples you have given better than the terms color or frequency would. If it helps you can think of the normal state of UE as the deep sleep state. (The Golden Mist) The dream state would be a large area of activity, like a active compost pile or a large group of people like a city. (A copper gold) The waking state would be when thought has given direction to the UE as in Reiki. (A vibrant Yellow Gold) HTH, :) > What would move us from one state to another? A change in the bio-electric field of our brains moves us to these different states & others. I have found that thought, imagining, imaging & subconscious thought also changes the bio-electric field our brains generate which effects the UE. > Is there any association with specific cycles, voluntary or involuntary > behavior which would enable us to "measure" them? I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are asking if by measuring brain activity could that activity be related to Reiki activity, any measurement would be subjective because there is no way to measure the changes in the UE field. > Something like the emotional > scales used in scientology or David Hawkins' map of human consciousness? I don't know enough about either to relate them to the UE. > Is there any "inertia" in these states? Some, though I can't say that there is a set rule to judge the amount of time a change will stay in affect. > Are there clearly defined states or is is there a continuum? The UE is a steady state continuum. While changes in state are usually clearly defined. > What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state Thought, conscious &/or subconscious. That is what gives us the advantage over disease causing life forms. > and is a change sort of a "self-locking" thing or does it have to > be maintained deliberately? For healing periodic maintenance is required. This can be subconscious or just a passing thought. > By this I mean that if we get into a > "good" Reiki state will it stay that way until some greater force > knocks us out of it? I have been in a constant active Reiki/UE state for over 65 years with out having to think about it, but I'm not 'normal'. From observation of other 'normal' people I say they would have to keep updating to stay in a "good" Reiki state. A change of an individuals mental state could knock them out of the "good" Reiki State. > Or is "average" the normal thing and the > "good" state only persists as long as we make the effort? Yes & Yes. Though I have observed that the longer a person stay's in that "good" state the easier it becomes to maintain it. > I realize that your answers may contain a lot of IMO's. I left them out. ^_^ See my signature below. > My guess is > that they are more than just your opinions but are actually your guiding > principles for your Reiki practice and to hear of other models of Reiki > in more depth would be great. Correct, My opinions are based on my life experience & I know enough to know I don't know very much, & I am always willing to learn more. GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:14:37 -0800 Lines: 189 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: m228f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.34) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077128079 47094018 I 208.54.143.34 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!m228f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13852 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com... > > > pr wrote: > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > > > > > IMO/IME all that is required is the thought or intent for healing to be > > > done for the UE to become activated to a state conducive to healing. > > > > > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't > > > have mass so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > > > > [snip ...] > > > > > IMO/IME I do at least I think I do. :) People can relate to the word > > > Universal Energy so that is the word I now use to refer to what I > > >perceive as a Golden Mist that I have been able to see & feel since birth. > > > > > UE is every thing. It is what everything is made of & it is every where. > > > It doesn't flow or distort it only changes 'state' that I perceive as a > > > change in color. > > > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The > > > "flow" that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using > > >to help change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in > > > healing. > > > > ~Alex, > > > > this is the second post I can remember where you refer to Reiki > > as a state. I would like you tell us a bit more about this idea. I am > > trying to wrap my mind around it and somehow I am not too > > sucessful in it. However, it may very well be a very useful model, > > even if it serves only as an alternative explanation to other people. > > In my mind, states are usually more or less distinct, although > > they may be characterised by certain activities. If we take > > consciousness, the waking state may well be characterised by > > constant activity on a mental plane, more or less logical activity. > > The dream state may be characterised by "irrational" activity of > > a kind that does not always reach consciousness. The deep sleep > > state may be one of low brain activity. All of them are also associated > > with a body state. > > Question which come to the fore are: > > Do you see the Reiki state in a similar way? > > OK, I use the term 'state' because it does relate similarly to the states of > mind examples you have given better than the terms color or frequency would. > If it helps you can think of the normal state of UE as the deep sleep state. > (The Golden Mist) > The dream state would be a large area of activity, like a active compost pile or > a large group of people like a city. (A copper gold) > The waking state would be when thought has given direction to the UE as in > Reiki. (A vibrant Yellow Gold) > > HTH, :) > > > What would move us from one state to another? > > A change in the bio-electric field of our brains moves us to these different > states & others. I have found that thought, imagining, imaging & subconscious > thought also changes the bio-electric field our brains generate which effects > the UE. Hmm. Not sure if I make the same connection. I don't believe (at this point :-) that it has anything to do with the bio-electric field of our brains. What about a seisure? A purely scientific medical explanation of a seisure shows massive increase in electical activity in the brain. Maybe I am just talking symantics here. Ignore me if so. > > > Is there any association with specific cycles, voluntary or involuntary > > behavior which would enable us to "measure" them? > > I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are asking if by measuring brain > activity could that activity be related to Reiki activity, any measurement would > be subjective because there is no way to measure the changes in the UE field. > > > Something like the emotional > > scales used in scientology or David Hawkins' map of human consciousness? > > I don't know enough about either to relate them to the UE. > > > Is there any "inertia" in these states? > > Some, though I can't say that there is a set rule to judge the amount of time a > change will stay in affect. > > > Are there clearly defined states or is is there a continuum? > > The UE is a steady state continuum. While changes in state are usually clearly > defined. > > > What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state > > Thought, conscious &/or subconscious. That is what gives us the advantage over > disease causing life forms. Really? What about a brain dead comatose patient that has no electical activity in the brain. Is this person still a sender/receiver of this UE? What happens when a person like this wakes up? Doesn't this suggest the flow "keeps on trucking"? :-) And what are your thoughts on the healing powers of a comatose patient? > > > and is a change sort of a "self-locking" thing or does it have to > > be maintained deliberately? > > For healing periodic maintenance is required. This can be subconscious or just a > passing thought. > > > By this I mean that if we get into a > > "good" Reiki state will it stay that way until some greater force > > knocks us out of it? > > I have been in a constant active Reiki/UE state for over 65 years with out > having to think about it, but I'm not 'normal'. From observation of other > 'normal' people I say they would have to keep updating to stay in a "good" Reiki > state. A change of an individuals mental state could knock them out of the > "good" Reiki State. > > > Or is "average" the normal thing and the > > "good" state only persists as long as we make the effort? > > Yes & Yes. Though I have observed that the longer a person stay's in that "good" > state the easier it becomes to maintain it. > > > I realize that your answers may contain a lot of IMO's. > > I left them out. ^_^ See my signature below. > > > My guess is > > that they are more than just your opinions but are actually your guiding > > principles for your Reiki practice and to hear of other models of Reiki > > in more depth would be great. > > Correct, My opinions are based on my life experience & I know enough to know I > don't know very much, & I am always willing to learn more. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > -- > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 72 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 20:24:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077135862 65.30.225.94 (Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:24:22 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 14:24:22 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13858 Gessner wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com... > > A change in the bio-electric field of our brains moves us to these > > different states & others. I have found that thought, imagining, > > imaging & subconscious thought also changes the bio-electric field > > our brains generate which effects the UE. > > Hmm. Not sure if I make the same connection. I don't believe (at this point > :-) that it has anything to do with the bio-electric field of our brains. > What about a seisure? A purely scientific medical explanation of a seisure > shows massive increase in electical activity in the brain. Maybe I am just > talking symantics here. Ignore me if so. A seizure is uncontrolled while thought is a controlled change in the pattern of the bio-electric field. IMO/IME, Two different things. > > The UE is a steady state continuum. While changes in state are usually > > clearly defined. > > > > > What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state > > > > Thought, conscious &/or subconscious. That is what gives us the advantage > > over disease causing life forms. > > Really? What about a brain dead comatose patient that has no electical > activity in the brain. Is this person still a sender/receiver of this UE? I would say No to being a 'sender' & Yes to being a 'receiver'. When I was dead for almost 20 minutes I don't know how much brain activity I had because it was a lack of blood that caused my death & I don't know what instruments they had to check brain activity in 1958. > What happens when a person like this wakes up? That depends on the person & their ability to heal. > Doesn't this suggest the flow "keeps on trucking"? :-) That termanoligy could be used. I would say that the UE stayed in an active healing state long enough for the persons body to heal. > And what are your thoughts on the healing > powers of a comatose patient? Again that depends on the individual. I was in a coma for 2 days & could hear what was going on around me & what was being said. I just couldn't react. I can't say that another person in a coma can hear or not or what may or may not be happening in their brain. :) GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:43:28 +0200 Lines: 61 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-170.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 19 Feb 2004 19:32:43 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-170.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-170.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13883 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com... > > > pr wrote: > > > > Is there any association with specific cycles, voluntary or involuntary > > behavior which would enable us to "measure" them? > > I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are asking if by measuring brain > activity could that activity be related to Reiki activity, any measurement would > be subjective because there is no way to measure the changes in the UE field. Deep slep is characterised by a particular brain wave cycle with REM's (Rapid Eye Movements), and lower metabolic rate. The dream state is one in which REM occurs. The waking state is one of higher metabolic rate and a higher frequency brain wave activity. By observing a person, and watching out of these characteristics which are measurable, we can deduce the state of the person. We should really be able to, or at least aim for, a situation where we can somehow link-up effective healing with what the practitioner and the client does. Such link does not necessarily have to be a scientifically proven one. A teacher should be able to say, if you do A then the healing session is usually more effective than if you would do B. While the changes in the UE field may not be measurable, the clients response to the change is. He is reporting "no change" or "feeling better", maybe "feeling worse". Let me relate what I find an interesting story: A Prof Gendlin taught students in psychology. One day he wondered what makes some therapy session successful and others less so. They video taped hundreds of sessions, divided the students into good ones and not so good ones, as per usual criteria - and found no difference in the result! The not so good had an equal "success" rate as the real good ones. Consternation! Then he thought, if it is not the therapist making a difference then maybe it is the client? They went through the tapes again and were able to pick out two client's characteristics of the sucessful sessions. He then went one step further and proposed that if he is right then he would be able to predict the outcome of therapy quite early. And indeed, he was able to predict "success" or "no success" within the first session or at the latest at the second session. IMO, we should be able to do something similar with regards to Reiki, otherwise we never get beyond pitching one opinion against another. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:58:21 -0800 Lines: 96 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63-228-96-132.tukw.qwest.net (63.228.96.132) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077170437 47487998 I 63.228.96.132 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63-228-96-132.tukw.qwest.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13872 Thanks alex, ineresting answers. Anybody else. Gess "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com... > Gessner wrote: > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com... > > > > > A change in the bio-electric field of our brains moves us to these > > > different states & others. I have found that thought, imagining, > > > imaging & subconscious thought also changes the bio-electric field > > > our brains generate which effects the UE. > > > > Hmm. Not sure if I make the same connection. I don't believe (at this point > > :-) that it has anything to do with the bio-electric field of our brains. > > What about a seisure? A purely scientific medical explanation of a seisure > > shows massive increase in electical activity in the brain. Maybe I am just > > talking symantics here. Ignore me if so. > > A seizure is uncontrolled while thought is a controlled change in the pattern of > the bio-electric field. IMO/IME, Two different things. > > > > > The UE is a steady state continuum. While changes in state are usually > > > clearly defined. > > > > > > > What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state > > > > > > Thought, conscious &/or subconscious. That is what gives us the advantage > > > over disease causing life forms. > > > > Really? What about a brain dead comatose patient that has no electical > > activity in the brain. Is this person still a sender/receiver of this UE? > > I would say No to being a 'sender' & Yes to being a 'receiver'. When I was dead > for almost 20 minutes I don't know how much brain activity I had because it was > a lack of blood that caused my death & I don't know what instruments they had to > check brain activity in 1958. > > > What happens when a person like this wakes up? > > That depends on the person & their ability to heal. > > > Doesn't this suggest the flow "keeps on trucking"? :-) > > That termanoligy could be used. I would say that the UE stayed in an active > healing state long enough for the persons body to heal. > > > And what are your thoughts on the healing > > powers of a comatose patient? > > Again that depends on the individual. I was in a coma for 2 days & could hear > what was going on around me & what was being said. I just couldn't react. I > can't say that another person in a coma can hear or not or what may or may not > be happening in their brain. > > :) > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:37:27 GMT Lines: 111 Message-ID: <40349eee.1305053@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka32b.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.75) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077190255 47180195 I 207.69.12.75 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka32b.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13879 On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:58:21 -0800, "Gessner" wrote: >Thanks alex, ineresting answers. > >Anybody else. Alex has a distinct advantage over most of us through both experience of these conditions and through being born with a sense that most of us seem blind to. So, if Alex is willing, we could come up with experiments to test our theories and ask Alex to be the observer and feed us the results. The hard part is coming up with a suitable test. Put your Tom Terrific thinking cap on! Garry >Gess > >"Alex Barna" wrote in message >news:4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com... >> Gessner wrote: >> > >> > "Alex Barna" wrote in message >> > news:40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com... >> >> >> > > A change in the bio-electric field of our brains moves us to these >> > > different states & others. I have found that thought, imagining, >> > > imaging & subconscious thought also changes the bio-electric field >> > > our brains generate which effects the UE. >> > >> > Hmm. Not sure if I make the same connection. I don't believe (at this >point >> > :-) that it has anything to do with the bio-electric field of our >brains. >> > What about a seisure? A purely scientific medical explanation of a >seisure >> > shows massive increase in electical activity in the brain. Maybe I am >just >> > talking symantics here. Ignore me if so. >> >> A seizure is uncontrolled while thought is a controlled change in the >pattern of >> the bio-electric field. IMO/IME, Two different things. >> >> >> > > The UE is a steady state continuum. While changes in state are usually >> > > clearly defined. >> > > >> > > > What actions on our behalf makes it possible to change a state >> > > >> > > Thought, conscious &/or subconscious. That is what gives us the >advantage >> > > over disease causing life forms. >> > >> > Really? What about a brain dead comatose patient that has no electical >> > activity in the brain. Is this person still a sender/receiver of this >UE? >> >> I would say No to being a 'sender' & Yes to being a 'receiver'. When I was >dead >> for almost 20 minutes I don't know how much brain activity I had because >it was >> a lack of blood that caused my death & I don't know what instruments they >had to >> check brain activity in 1958. >> >> > What happens when a person like this wakes up? >> >> That depends on the person & their ability to heal. >> >> > Doesn't this suggest the flow "keeps on trucking"? :-) >> >> That termanoligy could be used. I would say that the UE stayed in an >active >> healing state long enough for the persons body to heal. >> >> > And what are your thoughts on the healing >> > powers of a comatose patient? >> >> Again that depends on the individual. I was in a coma for 2 days & could >hear >> what was going on around me & what was being said. I just couldn't react. >I >> can't say that another person in a coma can hear or not or what may or may >not >> be happening in their brain. >> >> :) >> >> GramPaHugs, >> Alex, >> >> -- >> >> Any information is included for informational >> or entertainment purposes only, is based on my >> personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. >> >> **************************************************** >> * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn >> * AOL Click >> * AOL Click >> * Don't worry about life, >> * you're not going to survive it anyway >> **************************************************** > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:36:49 +0200 Lines: 46 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-27.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40358b51.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 20 Feb 2004 06:21:37 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-27.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-27.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13925 "Gessner" wrote in message news:c11je4$1d96vu$1@ID-224928.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com... > > Gessner wrote: > > > > > > Really? What about a brain dead comatose patient that has no electical > > > activity in the brain. Is this person still a sender/receiver of this > UE? > > > > I would say No to being a 'sender' & Yes to being a 'receiver'. Wow! A human black hole! :) If we take Alex's "state" theory then there is no sender or receiver. >When I was dead > > for almost 20 minutes I don't know how much brain activity I had because > it was > > a lack of blood that caused my death & I don't know what instruments they > had to > > check brain activity in 1958. > > > > > What happens when a person like this wakes up? They change state, just as we do when awakening from sleep. > > > And what are your thoughts on the healing > > > powers of a comatose patient? They have healing power. So has a dead person, though being less mobile, and not very communicative, and on top of it buried in a hole or burnt after a few days, it is usually limited to close family and friends. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:26 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <6bo4301eqlh02l9ihhvtftk235efs4t4sd@4ax.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077222375 47055223 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13889 FWIW, I belong to the "state" camp .... although I believe that it's not a state of inertia, but constantly dynamic outside of, but more specific within the sphere of activity between the practitioner and "recipient" .. To me, the "flow" model implies that something is being transferred from on entity to another .. which in turn also implies separateness ... and also leads to philosophical and scientific problems in attempting to explain what is going on .. i.e. there is nothing - no flow - to measure ... The practitioner and "recipient" come together to perform their roles in a shared dance as one entity .. just being .. Stuart ###### Message-ID: <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 85 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:48:25 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077223685 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:48:05 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:48:05 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13890 pr wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com... > > > > > > pr wrote: > > > > > > Is there any association with specific cycles, voluntary or involuntary > > > behavior which would enable us to "measure" them? > > > > I'm not sure I understand the question. If you are asking if by measuring > > brain activity could that activity be related to Reiki activity, any > > measurement would be subjective because there is no way to measure > > the changes in the UE field. > > Deep sleep is characterised by a particular brain wave cycle > with REM's (Rapid Eye Movements), and lower metabolic rate. > The dream state is one in which REM occurs. The waking state > is one of higher metabolic rate and a higher frequency brain > wave activity. By observing a person, and watching out of these > characteristics which are measurable, we can deduce the state > of the person. > We should really be able to, or at least aim for, a situation where > we can somehow link-up effective healing with what the practitioner > and the client does. Such link does not necessarily have to be > a scientifically proven one. A teacher should be able to say, > if you do A then the healing session is usually more effective > than if you would do B. You & I have both said that "an intense pre-occupation with yourself, will be of no use in making Reiki more effective." > While the changes in the UE field may not be measurable, the > clients response to the change is. He is reporting "no change" > or "feeling better", maybe "feeling worse". IMO that should be recorded in each clients record along with what the person treating did. > Let me relate what I find an interesting story: > A Prof Gendlin taught students in psychology. One day he > wondered what makes some therapy session successful > and others less so. They video taped hundreds of sessions, > divided the students into good ones and not so good ones, > as per usual criteria - and found no difference in the result! > The not so good had an equal "success" rate as the real > good ones. Consternation! Then he thought, if it is not > the therapist making a difference then maybe it is the client? > They went through the tapes again and were able to pick > out two client's characteristics of the sucessful sessions. > He then went one step further and proposed that if he is > right then he would be able to predict the outcome of therapy > quite early. And indeed, he was able to predict "success" or > "no success" within the first session or at the latest > at the second session. > IMO, we should be able to do something similar with regards > to Reiki, otherwise we never get beyond pitching one opinion > against another. I wish I could teach everyone how to *see* the UE, but it isn't something I learned, so I wouldn't know where to start. :( > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40352698.7D4C2885@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <6bo4301eqlh02l9ihhvtftk235efs4t4sd@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:13:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1077225192 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:13:12 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:13:12 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13892 Hi Stuart, I can 'get' what you are saying from the aspect of 'being'. Can you really experience what you are saying, or do you have to shut down any 'feelings of flow'? I am not able to just 'be' and I experience whatever is there, each time. Rich Stuart Vernon wrote: > > FWIW, I belong to the "state" camp .... although I believe > that it's not a state of inertia, but constantly dynamic > outside of, but more specific within the sphere of activity > between the practitioner and "recipient" .. > > To me, the "flow" model implies that something is being > transferred from on entity to another .. which in turn also > implies separateness ... and also leads to philosophical > and scientific problems in attempting to explain what is going > on .. i.e. there is nothing - no flow - to measure ... > > The practitioner and "recipient" come together to perform their > roles in a shared dance as one entity .. just being .. > > Stuart ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40352869.AE634707@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 21:20:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1077225657 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:20:57 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 14:20:57 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news.octanews.net!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13894 If we were to change the languaging from 'opinionating' to 'exploring' or 'distinguishing' then the whole context would change. As an observer I am not in the slightest way feeling that I am watching opinions thrown around. I am mentally engaged and learning some good stuff! Rich Alex Barna wrote: > > pr wrote: > > > > IMO, we should be able to do something similar with regards > > to Reiki, otherwise we never get beyond pitching one opinion > > against another. > > I wish I could teach everyone how to *see* the UE, > but it isn't something I learned, > so I wouldn't know where to start. :( > > > -- > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:16 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <40352698.7D4C2885@shaw.ca> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077228965 47373973 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13897 (Rich) wrote: Lo Rich .. > I can 'get' what you are saying from the aspect of 'being'. > Can you really experience what you are saying, or do you have to shut > down any 'feelings of flow'? I am not able to > just 'be' and I experience whatever is there, each time. I don't have to shut down "feelings of flow" because they don't form part of my vocabulary, as it were ... yes, of course I experience whatever is happening at the time, but not in an objective analytical mode IYSWIM ... The analytical navel-gazing stuff comes out outside of a Reiki session and is a facet of *me* ... :) I've been to many Reiki-shares where the protocol is to ask the "body on the table" whether it's OK to hold a conversation or keep schtum ... there have been many bawdy exchanges over the table which do nothing to diminish the "body on the table"'s appreciation of the session, but which has also been convulsed with laughter ... but hey, that's healing too, no? And I've been to some which are so po-faced that you just want to get out of there .. The overriding intent, however, is to be there for that moment for that person .. Stuart ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <403550BE.F2A2F9DB@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <40352698.7D4C2885@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 00:13:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1077235983 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:13:03 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 17:13:03 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13900 Stuart Vernon wrote: > > (Rich) wrote: > > Lo Rich .. > > I don't have to shut down "feelings of flow" because they don't form > part of my vocabulary, as it were ... yes, of course I experience > whatever is happening at the time, but not in an objective analytical > mode IYSWIM ... Okay, I am assuming you're just not putting any attention on what is happening or what it looks like....at the time. And better still to not have the distinctions! > > The analytical navel-gazing stuff comes out outside of a Reiki session > and is a facet of *me* ... :) Only navel-gazing I have done lately is to watch and make sure my insides weren't coming out an umbilical hernia! All patched up and healed now! :) > > I've been to many Reiki-shares where the protocol is to ask the "body on > the table" whether it's OK to hold a conversation or keep schtum ... there > have been many bawdy exchanges over the table which do nothing to diminish > the "body on the table"'s appreciation of the session, but which has also > been convulsed with laughter ... but hey, that's healing too, no? Absolutely! Isn't the 'body on the table' a part of us anyway? I still believe that a lot of our 'illnesses' occur because somewhere we 'got serious' about life! > > And I've been to some which are so po-faced that you just want to get out > of there .. I hear ya', bro! Rich ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:14:21 GMT Lines: 39 Message-ID: <40356b5f.1770281@news.Individual.NET> References: <6bo4301eqlh02l9ihhvtftk235efs4t4sd@4ax.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.14.50) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077242867 44642711 I 207.69.14.50 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13911 On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:26 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: > >FWIW, I belong to the "state" camp .... although I believe >that it's not a state of inertia, but constantly dynamic >outside of, but more specific within the sphere of activity >between the practitioner and "recipient" .. > >To me, the "flow" model implies that something is being >transferred from on entity to another .. which in turn also >implies separateness ... and also leads to philosophical >and scientific problems in attempting to explain what is going >on .. i.e. there is nothing - no flow - to measure ... Um, if you have more than one state, doesn't that imply separateness, too? Maybe we should keep the separation issue separate from the state/flow issue? Or are they one? :-) Personally, I only say "flow" because it feels like something is increasing and decreasing and this was described to me by my teachers as "flow". Perhaps the feeling of "flow" is caused by the change in state, and once the new state has been achieved, there is no more change to be sensed, so the "flow" feeling stops. IE the "flow" feeling only comes about when state is in flux. But flux means flow...uh-oh. =:o It seems that as long as there is change, there will not be any easy answers. >The practitioner and "recipient" come together to perform their >roles in a shared dance as one entity .. just being .. I'll buy that! Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <403579E9.8B3C8E0C@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <6bo4301eqlh02l9ihhvtftk235efs4t4sd@4ax.com> <40356b5f.1770281@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 49 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:08:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1077246523 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:08:43 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:08:43 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13919 Sounds like what is left is, "When there's flow, there's flow, and when there's not, there's not." If there can be flow within oneself, and we are all 'one', then flow isn't any issue as philosophical separateness. Maybe the energy belongs to a different domain, as in, flow is mainly a difference in potential which doesn't infer separateness. Didn't the quantum community suddenly decide to bend space? Cheers Rich Garry Williams wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:26 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk > (Stuart Vernon) wrote: > > > > >FWIW, I belong to the "state" camp .... although I believe > >that it's not a state of inertia, but constantly dynamic > >outside of, but more specific within the sphere of activity > >between the practitioner and "recipient" .. > > > >To me, the "flow" model implies that something is being > >transferred from on entity to another .. which in turn also > >implies separateness ... and also leads to philosophical > >and scientific problems in attempting to explain what is going > >on .. i.e. there is nothing - no flow - to measure ... > > Um, if you have more than one state, doesn't that imply separateness, > too? Maybe we should keep the separation issue separate from the > state/flow issue? Or are they one? :-) > > Personally, I only say "flow" because it feels like something is > increasing and decreasing and this was described to me by my teachers > as "flow". Perhaps the feeling of "flow" is caused by the change in > state, and once the new state has been achieved, there is no more > change to be sensed, so the "flow" feeling stops. IE the "flow" > feeling only comes about when state is in flux. But flux means > flow...uh-oh. =:o > > It seems that as long as there is change, there will not be any easy > answers. > > >The practitioner and "recipient" come together to perform their > >roles in a shared dance as one entity .. just being .. > > I'll buy that! > > Love and Light, > > Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:37:59 +0200 Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-183.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40364faf.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 20 Feb 2004 20:19:27 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-183.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-183.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13932 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com... > I wish I could teach everyone how to *see* the UE, THERE is your life purpose! :-) -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Message-ID: <40363BDE.FD55AFC7@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com> <40358b51.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 65 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:54:54 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077296069 65.30.225.94 (Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:54:29 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 10:54:29 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13931 pr wrote: > > "Gessner" wrote in message > news:c11je4$1d96vu$1@ID-224928.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:4033CB40.DD8F21C@mn.rr.com... > > > > Gessner wrote: > > > > > > > > Really? What about a brain dead comatose patient that has no > > > > electical activity in the brain. Is this person still a > > > > sender/receiver of this UE? > > > > > > I would say No to being a 'sender' & Yes to being a 'receiver'. > > Wow! A human black hole! :) > > If we take Alex's "state" theory then there is no sender or receiver. True, but that doesn't mean the words send & receive can't be used. I use "Sending Good Thoughts," to signify that I am activating the UE at the 'receivers' location for the benefit requested. > > > When I was dead for almost 20 minutes I don't know how much brain > > > activity I had because it was a lack of blood that caused my death & > > > I don't know what instruments they had to check brain activity in > > > 1958. > > > > > > > What happens when a person like this wakes up? > > They change state, just as we do when awakening from sleep. I should have said that. ^_^ > > > > And what are your thoughts on the healing > > > > powers of a comatose patient? > > They have healing power. So has a dead person, though being > less mobile, and not very communicative, and on top of it buried > in a hole or burnt after a few days, it is usually limited to close > family and friends. Actually that dead person is infinitely mobile through time & space. :) GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 01:28:57 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: <4036b24a.557442@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> <40364faf.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0mv.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.2.223) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077326539 49276054 I 207.69.2.223 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0mv.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13938 On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:37:59 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"Alex Barna" wrote in message >news:40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com... > >> I wish I could teach everyone how to *see* the UE, > >THERE is your life purpose! :-) Yes, but don't get your hopes up. It may be that for this, people such as you and I are not teachable. Alex is already inside the bakery whipping up fresh baked goods, and at the moment, you and I are locked outside in the cold with our noses pressed to the window, mouths watering, but never able to taste. But who knows? Maybe someday, just maybe, the shop door might open just a crack and let us get a whiff of those freshly baked loaves.... Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> <40364faf.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4036b24a.557442@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 03:51:17 +0200 Lines: 43 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-27-128.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40380b5a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 22 Feb 2004 03:52:26 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-27-128.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-27-128.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13949 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4036b24a.557442@news.Individual.NET... > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 06:37:59 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > > > >"Alex Barna" wrote in message > >news:40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com... > > > >> I wish I could teach everyone how to *see* the UE, > > > >THERE is your life purpose! :-) > > Yes, but don't get your hopes up. It may be that for this, people such > as you and I are not teachable. You mean we first have to mutate? So, in the next life-time maybe? After getting a suitable dose of cosmic radiation, or spending time with an ascended master, or having visited the Pleiadian galaxy and got some input there? I notice that you seem yo put a lot of restrictions onto yourself. Here it is not being teachable, in another post it was that you found it inconceivable that somebody could travel far distances to see you for a healing session. Just a week ago I was trying to memorize a particular text/poem. I could never recite it without getting stuck, sometimes even on the second line. A few days ago I realized that I DO know the whole thing completely and that this "forget" thing is something I do to myself. Bang! - the block was gone and since that moment I have no problem anymore. How much more of this "stuff of inadequacy" are we doing to ourselves? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 02:17:20 GMT Lines: 37 Message-ID: <40380f8d.5976634@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> <40364faf.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4036b24a.557442@news.Individual.NET> <40380b5a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0uf.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.207) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077415839 49316847 I 207.69.3.207 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0uf.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13950 On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 03:51:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I notice that you seem yo put a lot of restrictions onto yourself. >Here it is not being teachable, in another post it was that you >found it inconceivable that somebody could travel far distances >to see you for a healing session. It may *seem* like a restriction to you (on the teachable issue), but it was more of a "wait and see" attitude, at least to me. Maybe we are teachable, maybe we aren't. Let's just give it a go and find out, rather than assume from one way or the other from the start. :-) On the inconceivable issue over someone traveling a long ways to look for me for a healing session--yeppers, that one would be very much of a surprise to me. I have to admit, it is *possible*, but rather like the same sort of odds as of winning the mega-bucks lotteries. So I suppose I should say, "let's wait and see" on that one, as well. I stand corrected. >Just a week ago I was trying to memorize a particular text/poem. >I could never recite it without getting stuck, sometimes even >on the second line. A few days ago I realized that I DO know >the whole thing completely and that this "forget" thing is >something I do to myself. Bang! - the block was gone and >since that moment I have no problem anymore. A useful example; thanks for sharing! >How much more of this "stuff of inadequacy" are we doing to >ourselves? Pretty much all of it. ;-) Garry P.S. Are you up really late, or really early? =:o ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb2.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40329E49.7EDD4701@mn.rr.com> <4034f33b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40352119.4EEAE6CE@mn.rr.com> <40364faf.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4036b24a.557442@news.Individual.NET> <40380b5a.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40380f8d.5976634@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 10:08:31 +0200 Lines: 43 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-114.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4038c8a0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 22 Feb 2004 17:20:00 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-114.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-114.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13970 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40380f8d.5976634@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 03:51:17 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >I notice that you seem yo put a lot of restrictions onto yourself. > >Here it is not being teachable, in another post it was that you > >found it inconceivable that somebody could travel far distances > >to see you for a healing session. > > It may *seem* like a restriction to you (on the teachable issue), but > it was more of a "wait and see" attitude, at least to me. Maybe we are > teachable, maybe we aren't. Let's just give it a go and find out, > rather than assume from one way or the other from the start. :-) This looks to me back to front. If you decide that you are not teachable then you will never be able learn anything. To go and find out indicates already that you think you are capable of learning, otherwise why bother. > >How much more of this "stuff of inadequacy" are we doing to > >ourselves? > > Pretty much all of it. ;-) > > P.S. Are you up really late, or really early? =:o I have no set times other than being available via phone from 9am to 17pm. Sometimes I work until 1 or 2 am, at other times I start work as early as 11pm and work until 8 pm the following day. I sleep whenever I am tired and have a quiet period, night, middle of the day, whatever. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Flow or state Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 19:21 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <4038c8a0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077477677 51194986 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13982 (pr) wrote: > to 17pm. > I sleep whenever I am tired and have a quiet period, > night, middle of the day, whatever. Seems you have an unusual alarm clock ... ;) Stuart