From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> Subject: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:54:01 +0200 Lines: 100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-137.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 7 Feb 2004 07:08:29 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-137.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-137.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13531 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:zRo7ZLAyg1IAVwM6@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > -=-gess-=- writes > >Ok, now judy, That is the easy answer, but from what? :-) Is reiki > >not a focused energy that takes someone to focus on channeling that > >energy, and opening the meridians is how we become "able" to perform > >this channeling of energy? If not, then why do attunements, and > >....etc... > > > > Opinions abound on all that. Mine are no more (or less) than anyone > else's here & as someone used to say ... worth precisely what you're > paying for them. > > The question was ... "Can a tree give off healing energy?". Of course > it can. People who know these things have known these things for > millennia. Nowadays we're (re) discovering all manner of ways of > utilising the vibrational energies of plant life. And yes, contacting > physically with a tree that's stood in the earth for 100's of years is a > beneficially therapeutic experience. As for "from what" ... well. As > far as I'm concerned, it's from the Source of Life and that's that. ~Judy, I find this a poor explanation :) The difficulty I have with it is that it does not help to facilitate a similar therapeutic experience in others. From God, as Source of Life would be interpreted by many, is just not a sufficient explanation today. This is besides the fact that for many it would not be an acceptable one either. To end with "that's that", which is also repeated later in your post seems to indicate to me that you have lost your curiosity and closed your mind to possibilities. How is a discussion possible with someone who has declared "for me that's that"? Your point about speculation and intellectualisation is taken, but how do you get this across to others? How can you get them to see that they are involved in these processes? And what is your explanation as to why they are detrimental to us? > "Sorce of Life" being a concept containing many gaps which we are all > capable of filling in with explanations to satisfy our own particular > world view. I find "Source of Life" to be quite clear and unambiguous. Few gaps for me there. I came across a book title many years ago and it was something like "Absolute Nothingness: The foundation for a Christian-Buddhist dialogue". I think that "Absolute Nothingness" should be the foundation for any dialogue, and there are no gaps in there. [snip ..] > Personally I don't find it helpful to phrase the phenomenon in the terms > of opening meridians or chakras or whatever model of the energetic body > happens to be flavour of the month. It may all sound very impressive in > an esoteric sort of way, but I don't find it adds one jot to my > understanding. Should the question for a healer not be "does it add something to the clients understanding?" Should a healer not have a whole range of models from which you pull the one which resonates most with the client? >These are ways of complicating something that's very > simple: a person hurts, another person reaches out to them (physically > or distantly) and a beneficial "result" occurs, albeit that result may > take time to become apparent. That's that. Attempt more in the way of > explanation and you arrive in the realm of speculation and > intellectualisation. I cannot "explain" why a flower has a particular > colour, or a particular shape, or a particular scent. I know it does, I > know I'm blessed to be able to experience it this, and I give thanks for > sharing that experience. I disagree. Part of healing is not only to make the person feel better but also to educate, inform, encourage, support. The question is how you do it. As healers we need to find ways to multiply our own healing experiences and make them generally available. While we cannot make them happen, we can investigate the situations which make them possible, we can determine the characteristics of these situations. We can use words, images, symbols, sounds, and all the other senses, but in every aspect we need to know why we are doing it and what we expect as a result. -- Namo Amito Fo Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <402487CF.BEAAA14F@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 06:39:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1076135940 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:39:00 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:39:00 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13534 Hi Peter, You said, quote "what we expect as a result". A wise person once said to me, "Healers need to learn to take more credit for what results are produced from their healing exercises." He wasn't directly speaking of Reiki and something ALWAYS happens due to Reiki channeling. Might show up as something in the area of synchronicities. As an example, I had been giving myself Reiki for months for my hernia. It didn't heal and yet, when the doc did the repair, he said my internal tissue was in extremely good shape (for a senior) and the repair was simple. I had no pain after the procedure. While I was forced to take two weeks of rest, my sore old Achilles recuperated from my 25 miles/week running on rough snow/ice (Canadian, eh?). Also I was available to provide a shoulder for one of my daughters making some life changes. Since I had the time, I put together a whole repertoire of dance music for the local community and will be the DJ at upcoming dances. Always wanted to do that! So, here's the deal......even though I still had to undergo the well-Reiki-ed hernia operation I consider the side benefits to be worth it all! If someone asks if it was ALL due to Reiki....of course it was! The fun is in uncovering those results! Cheers Rich pr wrote: > > I disagree. Part of healing is not only to make the > person feel better but also to educate, inform, > encourage, support. The question is how you do it. > As healers we need to find ways to multiply our own > healing experiences and make them generally available. > While we cannot make them happen, we can investigate > the situations which make them possible, we can > determine the characteristics of these situations. > We can use words, images, symbols, sounds, and > all the other senses, but in every aspect we need to > know why we are doing it and what we expect as a > result. > > -- > Namo Amito Fo > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:14:55 GMT Lines: 29 Message-ID: <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3en.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.215) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076159348 35941347 I 207.69.13.215 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3en.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13541 On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:54:01 +0200, "pr" wrote: >> Personally I don't find it helpful to phrase the phenomenon in the terms >> of opening meridians or chakras or whatever model of the energetic body >> happens to be flavour of the month. It may all sound very impressive in >> an esoteric sort of way, but I don't find it adds one jot to my >> understanding. > >Should the question for a healer not be "does it add >something to the clients understanding?" >Should a healer not have a whole range of models >from which you pull the one which resonates most >with the client? Could you make that a little clearer please, Peter? Are you saying we should be prepared to give them whatever model sounds good to them, regardless of whether we ourselves have any doubts or understanding of that model? Is being a "yes-man" a desirable attribute in a healer? (Hmmm, OTOH, if Kevin (arthealer) were to reply to that last question, I think he might say "obviously yes"....) Should we be prepared to offer a model, even if our own experience and understanding do not support or "resonate" with it? Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 16:13:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1076170390 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:13:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 09:13:10 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed2.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13545 I wanted to ask a similar question, Garry, and here's a bit of an addendum to your post......the way you pose your question has me suggest we are once again needing to distinguish 'oneness', 'sameness', 'I/Thou', 'we are all one', etc. It is kind of like, "your sins are my sins" since we are somehow all in this together. Of course, if we're not, then that's different. It's a tough one, and if there was some way we could try to eliminate or lessen the separateness, couldn't we somehow get that there really is little difference in all of us? 'Sameness', at least in complicity? That would be a first step. I am suggesting that coming from who we are is more valuable and powerful than 'doing a number' on a client where they can recognize our inauthenticity. Ever get that feeling of 'excuse me, I need to go throw up' after talking to some salesperson? :) Rich Garry Williams wrote: > > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:54:01 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > > > >> Personally I don't find it helpful to phrase the phenomenon in the terms > >> of opening meridians or chakras or whatever model of the energetic body > >> happens to be flavour of the month. It may all sound very impressive in > >> an esoteric sort of way, but I don't find it adds one jot to my > >> understanding. > > > >Should the question for a healer not be "does it add > >something to the clients understanding?" > >Should a healer not have a whole range of models > >from which you pull the one which resonates most > >with the client? > > Could you make that a little clearer please, Peter? Are you saying we > should be prepared to give them whatever model sounds good to them, > regardless of whether we ourselves have any doubts or understanding of > that model? Is being a "yes-man" a desirable attribute in a healer? > (Hmmm, OTOH, if Kevin (arthealer) were to reply to that last question, > I think he might say "obviously yes"....) Should we be prepared to > offer a model, even if our own experience and understanding do not > support or "resonate" with it? > > Love and Light, > > Garry ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:23:02 +0000 Lines: 200 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076145768 19926 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 09:22:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 09:22:48 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13538 pr writes > >"Judy Rigby" wrote > >> The question was ... "Can a tree give off healing energy?". Of course >> it can. People who know these things have known these things for >> millennia. Nowadays we're (re) discovering all manner of ways of >> utilising the vibrational energies of plant life. And yes, contacting >> physically with a tree that's stood in the earth for 100's of years is a >> beneficially therapeutic experience. As for "from what" ... well. As >> far as I'm concerned, it's from the Source of Life and that's that. > > >I find this a poor explanation :) The difficulty I have with >it is that it does not help to facilitate a similar therapeutic >experience in others. Oh dear :) This was in response to someone who had already had that therapeutic experience. The method as described was to sit within the energetic field of a tree. I think that is enough information to enable the majority of people to facilitate a similar experience for themselves. >From God, as Source of Life would >be interpreted by many, is just not a sufficient explanation >today. This is besides the fact that for many it would >not be an acceptable one either. Who are these "many" ? I think you are saying it's not an acceptable or sufficient explanation for *yourself*. Which is absolutely fine because you already have your own explanation, which you do find acceptable and less impoverished than mine. >To end with "that's that", >which is also repeated later in your post seems to >indicate to me that you have lost your curiosity and closed >your mind to possibilities. How is a discussion possible >with someone who has declared "for me that's that"? Watch & learn ;) >Your point about speculation and intellectualisation is >taken, but how do you get this across to others? How >can you get them to see that they are involved in these >processes? What processes ? >And what is your explanation as to why >they are detrimental to us? > You are reading something in here which I did not say. A person may find something not to their taste without it being to their detriment. I tried to make it clear that I was writing from a purely personal perspective, expressing my own feelings. I do not wish or expect anyone in particular to share that perspective, any more than I expect anyone else to share my distaste for eating brussels sprouts ... >> "Sorce of Life" being a concept containing many gaps which we are all >> capable of filling in with explanations to satisfy our own particular >> world view. > >I find "Source of Life" to be quite clear and unambiguous. >Few gaps for me there. I came across a book title many >years ago and it was something like "Absolute Nothingness: >The foundation for a Christian-Buddhist dialogue". >I think that "Absolute Nothingness" should be the foundation >for any dialogue, and there are no gaps in there. Oh, that's very interesting. If this is what people should be doing, and there are no gaps, the subject seems to be completely wrapped up, doesn't it ? I'm not sure I see how that represents a more open minded position than the one you're criticising, but maybe that would become clear in practice. We'll have to see whether any Christians pop up here so we can see how you'd conduct a dialogue with them. > >[snip ..] > >> Personally I don't find it helpful to phrase the phenomenon in the terms >> of opening meridians or chakras or whatever model of the energetic body >> happens to be flavour of the month. It may all sound very impressive in >> an esoteric sort of way, but I don't find it adds one jot to my >> understanding. > >Should the question for a healer not be "does it add >something to the clients understanding?" >Should a healer not have a whole range of models >from which you pull the one which resonates most >with the client? Who is "healer" and who is "client" ? Say, for the sake of debate, that you play the role of "healer" and I that of "client". You have stated what you believe "should" be the foundation for any dialogue. I agree with you fully that I as your "client" am likely to respond best if you are flexible and start from a point where I resonate. Further, as your (hypothetical) client, I'm giving you every indication that I do not agree with your view of the foundation for our dialogue, and that I'm likely to feel very threatened if you attempt to evangelise me round to your point of view. So how are you going to move matters forward ? > >>These are ways of complicating something that's very >> simple: a person hurts, another person reaches out to them (physically >> or distantly) and a beneficial "result" occurs, albeit that result may >> take time to become apparent. That's that. Attempt more in the way of >> explanation and you arrive in the realm of speculation and >> intellectualisation. I cannot "explain" why a flower has a particular >> colour, or a particular shape, or a particular scent. I know it does, I >> know I'm blessed to be able to experience it this, and I give thanks for >> sharing that experience. > >I disagree. Part of healing is not only to make the >person feel better but also to educate, inform, >encourage, support. The question is how you do it. Are you asking me to elaborate on the methods I use when working with clients ? Or was that a general "you" ? I'll share one thing. As "healer", one of the situations I often encounter is with the client who expects me to provide all the answers. Sometimes, this is appropriate, where my professional training has provided me with access to practical information which would be supportive and the sharing of which would empower the client to proceed further with their own independent healing. In other instances, particularly where discussion moves to "meaning of Life" areas, I do not claim to have any better information or opinions than the person I'm working with. Said in the right tone, an answer of "I don't know, what do you think ?" can be extremely encouraging. It equalises the balance between "healer" and "client" by recognising that the clients own answers are of equal validity to any I may come up with. It also minimises the risks of the client transferring personal power to the healer, or the healer fostering their own sense of superiority by feeling that their philosophical stance is of a higher level than that of the person with them, which are most undesirable situations to create. Just for information, I don't use the word "God" with clients at all, unless they have used the term first. If they have used it, I'll work with the God-model. If not then we start from whatever model is currently of meaning to them, and without at any point giving the impression that I find their explanations poor or in any way inferior to my own. In the area I work and live, we have a great diversity of people from many backgrounds. Some have come from situations where they have been persecuted or tortured for their religious beliefs or ethnic backgrounds or simply because someone in the street decided that knifing them would be a good idea. Others come from ethnic groups which are still struggling to maintain their own identity whilst at the same time gaining a foothold for themselves and their families to progress within a society which has not always been accommodating or understanding of their ways and beliefs. In that environment it seems to me that the most productive way forward is to establish common ground, display mutual respect and build from that point. >As healers we need to find ways to multiply our own >healing experiences and make them generally available. >While we cannot make them happen, we can investigate >the situations which make them possible, we can >determine the characteristics of these situations. >We can use words, images, symbols, sounds, and >all the other senses, but in every aspect we need to >know why we are doing it and what we expect as a >result. In terms of Reiki ? I do it because we have experience and/or trust that there will be some positive outcome. Expectation of any particular pre-defined result does not really form part of the Reiki I practice, which is far more about cultivating an attitude of non-attachment & simply being with the movement of the flow. Is it different for you ? -- Judy ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:24:35 GMT Lines: 4 Message-ID: <4024e6c7.4675947@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3en.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.215) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076159928 35921792 I 207.69.13.215 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3en.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13542 Damn, she's good! Garry ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:39:07 +0000 Lines: 104 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076175539 19092 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 17:38:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 17:38:59 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13547 Garry & Rich (Please forgive me Peter, I know these points were addressed to you, but I'd like to add something) I don't think it's a question of "doing a number" or being inauthentic. As "healers", presumably we are open to accepting people who come to us for support, irrespective of their religious or cultural backgrounds, yes ? (I *do* hope so, else we're all on a hiding to nothing here ;) ) That being the case, why on earth should we assume that their beliefs and understanding are any less valuable and acceptable to them than our own are to ourselves ? Take an example. A client arrives for their first Reiki treatment. Although they've never heard of it, they have been told that it will help reduce their stress levels. They are interested to find out more. And they ask you where the Reiki energy comes from. What are you going to say, given that one of the first things they tell you is that they are a practicing Muslim ? If you head in with *your* belief ... and that belief conflicts with *their* beliefs, then you're in murky waters before you start. In fact you probably won't start because they'll be out of the door. But you *can* deal with the question in a way that won't create conflict. The method I've used for a long time now, because it seemed to work, is to say something along the lines of: Well, that's a very profound question. We are talking about healing here, and you are asking me where does healing come from. My personal belief, which I do not ask you to share is that it comes from the very origins and source of Life, however we describe that. Where would your beliefs say that healing comes from ? and chances are that somewhere soon they'll say Allah. Which is fine by me. There's no dissonance between what I've said and what they've said, I know where they're coming from, they know I won't disrespect that, so we can work together happily. I can agree that "Allah" is an appropriate name for them to call it, without feeling remotely inauthentic or yes-personish about it, in the same way that I can agree any name of deity of choice is ok for them to hold as a working description. For those of a scientific frame of mind I have stacks of the Toni Bunnell article, and for those who plain haven't a clue we usually agree well in that case best just to get on with it & do the treatment ... ;) (I must say, Peter's given me some pause for thought, because it's the first time anyone's taken exception to "Source of Life" as a neutrally descriptive term. I may have to think of something else so I don't fail to offer accommodation for those who would like "Absolute Nothingness" as their preferred option out of the many.) Y'see, I think it's no damn business of mine *what* beliefs someone holds when they're in my practice room looking for me to support them in their healing. And it's most certainly not part of my role to say, hint, imply or otherwise that the model of the universe they hold needs to be altered by me. I may have my moments, but even at my worst I try to avoid being that presumptuous. 5 years ago, a client provided me with a great learning. Without too much detail, he's a practising christian (churchwarden, actually) was and dealing with great courage and dignity with the consequences of a prostate cancer which was likely to spread to the bone. He was absolutely certain he would not live more than a couple of years, although he did have an ambition to see 80. While having the "where does Reiki come from" conversation he said from the bottom of his heart: "Judy. I NEED there to be a God. If there is no God, then my life has had no meaning and it may as well end now." And I accepted his need, delved back into my mind for what I know of the language & concepts of the Church of England so I'd know what he was talking about & could respond appropriately, & we've never looked back. He celebrated his 80th birthday last year, says his weekly Reiki or massage sessions keep him sane & has now upgraded his ambition by another 5 years so we're aiming at 85 .... and hey ! I'm improving. This one's going out at just under 90 minutes. But the moment someone on the textile craft newsgroup comes back at me with the answer to a tricky technical question that's bogging down my progress, I'm off this computer again :))))))) >> Could you make that a little clearer please, Peter? Are you saying we >> should be prepared to give them whatever model sounds good to them, >> regardless of whether we ourselves have any doubts or understanding of >> that model? Is being a "yes-man" a desirable attribute in a healer? >> (Hmmm, OTOH, if Kevin (arthealer) were to reply to that last question, >> I think he might say "obviously yes"....) Should we be prepared to >> offer a model, even if our own experience and understanding do not >> support or "resonate" with it? >> >> Love and Light, >> >> Garry -- Judy ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:13:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1076177636 24.71.223.147 (Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:13:56 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 11:13:56 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13549 Hi Judy, I believe we are in complete alignment. You are being authentic and 'not doing a number'. You see, it is not whether YOU think you are or aren't. It is in the eye of the beholder and our intentions are fairly transparent! It is safer to come from your heart (so to speak) than to come from a 'technique for communication' that fills the literature these days! Good job! Cheers Rich Judy Rigby wrote: > > Garry & Rich > > (Please forgive me Peter, I know these points were addressed to you, but > I'd like to add something) > > I don't think it's a question of "doing a number" or being inauthentic. > As "healers", presumably we are open to accepting people who come to us > for support, irrespective of their religious or cultural backgrounds, > yes ? > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 18:00:18 +0200 Lines: 56 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4025c20f.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 06:58:55 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13571 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET... > On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 06:54:01 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > > > >> Personally I don't find it helpful to phrase the phenomenon in the terms > >> of opening meridians or chakras or whatever model of the energetic body > >> happens to be flavour of the month. It may all sound very impressive in > >> an esoteric sort of way, but I don't find it adds one jot to my > >> understanding. > > > >Should the question for a healer not be "does it add > >something to the clients understanding?" > >Should a healer not have a whole range of models > >from which you pull the one which resonates most > >with the client? > > Could you make that a little clearer please, Peter? Are you saying we > should be prepared to give them whatever model sounds good to them, > regardless of whether we ourselves have any doubts or understanding of > that model? Is being a "yes-man" a desirable attribute in a healer? Who said anything about models sounding good to the client, or being a yes-man? What I am talking about is to operate within the framework of the client, and yes, to do this even if we have doubts about it. When I am talking to an African person I need to accept and speak in terms of his ancestors as living spirits even if I have my doubts about them or belief that it is absolute non-sense. > (Hmmm, OTOH, if Kevin (arthealer) were to reply to that last question, > I think he might say "obviously yes"....) Should we be prepared to > offer a model, even if our own experience and understanding do not > support or "resonate" with it? Yes, because that is the only way to establish a platform where communication becomes a possibility. Note that this is not just some random selection, that's why I wrote a model that "resonates most with the client". It would be of no use to for me to talk to a Christian by using Buddhist terms and concepts. And even within Christianity there is sufficient disagreement about various matters that I do need to become a yes-man even when adopting its terminology and concepts on a temporary bais. -- Namo Amito Fo Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:04:26 +0200 Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4025c211.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 06:58:57 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13572 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:ouYNWDA25KJAVwVF@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > pr writes > >> "Sorce of Life" being a concept containing many gaps which we are all > >> capable of filling in with explanations to satisfy our own particular > >> world view. > > > >I find "Source of Life" to be quite clear and unambiguous. > >Few gaps for me there. I came across a book title many > >years ago and it was something like "Absolute Nothingness: > >The foundation for a Christian-Buddhist dialogue". > >I think that "Absolute Nothingness" should be the foundation > >for any dialogue, and there are no gaps in there. > > Oh, that's very interesting. If this is what people should be doing, > and there are no gaps, the subject seems to be completely wrapped up, > doesn't it ? I'm not sure I see how that represents a more open minded > position than the one you're criticising, but maybe that would become > clear in practice. We'll have to see whether any Christians pop up here > so we can see how you'd conduct a dialogue with them. > > > >Should the question for a healer not be "does it add > >something to the clients understanding?" > >Should a healer not have a whole range of models > >from which you pull the one which resonates most > >with the client? > > > Who is "healer" and who is "client" ? Say, for the sake of debate, that > you play the role of "healer" and I that of "client". You have stated > what you believe "should" be the foundation for any dialogue. I agree > with you fully that I as your "client" am likely to respond best if you > are flexible and start from a point where I resonate. Further, as your > (hypothetical) client, I'm giving you every indication that I do not > agree with your view of the foundation for our dialogue, and that I'm > likely to feel very threatened if you attempt to evangelise me round to > your point of view. So how are you going to move matters forward ? ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:28:04 +0000 Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076182096 2269 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 19:28:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 19:28:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13550 In article <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca>, Rich writes >Hi Judy, >I believe we are in complete alignment. You are being authentic and 'not >doing a number'. You see, it is not whether YOU think you are or aren't. >It is in the eye of the beholder and our intentions are fairly >transparent! It is safer to come from your heart (so to speak) than to >come from a 'technique for communication' that fills the literature >these days! Good job! >Cheers >Rich > Ta :) I generally tend to come from my heart these days. Since the demise of the marriage there have been precious few serious offers to do it any other way ..... LOL ! -- Judy ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 14:49:20 -0600 From: "GreG" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:48:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.249.213.174 X-Trace: sv3-8WyPgMh/4Ols+aGAUst0l3qTLZSCve0Oe4cRhl9pJV3lnlguLt0W6Lt8qE9CxSN4++1+kLde5k8KLrX!0flETGpbb7m6OyKYEnho2y9uPKHJyZLKqU3fUQ0loKchrJBxt5HZWex4YfewhnaKHhvRz04q1br+!Dg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@karoo.kcom.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@karoo.kcom.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!140.99.99.194.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.karoo.co.uk!news.karoo.co.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13552 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message > > I generally tend to come from my heart these days. > > Since the demise of the marriage there have been precious few serious > offers to do it any other way ..... LOL ! > > -- > Judy Just getting the bike out,should be round your way in about 3hrs. keep it warm babe. ; ). Greg. ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:08:18 +0000 Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076195614 15336 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 23:13:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:13:34 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13556 GreG writes > > Just getting the bike out,should be round your way in about 3hrs. keep it >warm babe. ; ). > Greg. > > Hmmm. It's Saturday night. I'm writing at 22:57. He wrote at 20:48. Hmmm. He gives me 3 hours. That gives me an hour to get a nice bottle of wine, incense the place, bath, wash hair, dress suitably for meeting a gentleman (DOWN Stuart !!!!! DOWN I SAY !) & generally be poised & ready. On the other hand, do I really want to consider this a serious offer ? Is the man married ? Is he a philanderer ? What is the address of his parents ? Will he stand me up clutching my bottle of wine en, no doubt by that time a rather fetching deshabille ? (STOP IT STUART !!!) All these, and no doubt other burning questions will be answered soon. Stay tuned. Anything can happen in the next half hour ............ -- Judy ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:14:03 +0000 Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e6c7.4675947@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076195664 7752 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 23:14:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:14:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13558 Garry Williams writes >Damn, she's good! > Good God, man ! Get up before people start talking ..... ;) -- Judy ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:25:02 +0000 Lines: 4 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076196310 8782 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 23:25:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:25:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13559 I wonder if I've got time to cut my toenails ? ..... -- Judy ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:38:38 +0000 Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076197129 4158 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 23:38:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:38:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13562 Oh my ! Only 10 minutes or so to go. Isn't this exciting ? Oh, the antici ::::SCROLL DOWN::: :::BIT MORE SCROLLING::: :::AND THEN SOME:::: pation ! -- Judy ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:59:01 +0000 Lines: 4 Message-ID: <9DEYdMAFvXJAVwFO@rigbys.demon.co.uk> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> <40252AB2.12BE1656@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076198352 11728 194.222.30.223 (7 Feb 2004 23:59:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 23:59:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13564 He's late. -- Judy ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:44:44 +0200 Lines: 111 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4025c212.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 06:58:58 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13573 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:ouYNWDA25KJAVwVF@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > pr writes > > > >"Judy Rigby" wrote > > > >> The question was ... "Can a tree give off healing energy?". Of course > >> it can. People who know these things have known these things for > >> millennia. Nowadays we're (re) discovering all manner of ways of > >> utilising the vibrational energies of plant life. And yes, contacting > >> physically with a tree that's stood in the earth for 100's of years is a > >> beneficially therapeutic experience. As for "from what" ... well. As > >> far as I'm concerned, it's from the Source of Life and that's that. > > > > > >I find this a poor explanation :) The difficulty I have with > >it is that it does not help to facilitate a similar therapeutic > >experience in others. > > Oh dear :) This was in response to someone who had already had that > therapeutic experience. The method as described was to sit within the > energetic field of a tree. I think that is enough information to enable > the majority of people to facilitate a similar experience for > themselves. Unfortunately this does not seem to be the case. What is the ratio of people who go and sit under a tree when they have headache compared to the ones going for a pill or a doctor? Is it because some pills work better than hugging a tree? And as the original poster writes, it was also not just any tree but a special "reki" tree which produced the experience. To sit within the energetic field of any old tree did not seem good enough. > >From God, as Source of Life would > >be interpreted by many, is just not a sufficient explanation > >today. This is besides the fact that for many it would > >not be an acceptable one either. > > > Who are these "many" ? I think you are saying it's not an acceptable or > sufficient explanation for *yourself*. Which is absolutely fine because > you already have your own explanation, which you do find acceptable and > less impoverished than mine. For many God is not a living presence anymore, he has died on the altar of science or rationalism. > >Your point about speculation and intellectualisation is > >taken, but how do you get this across to others? How > >can you get them to see that they are involved in these > >processes? > > What processes ? Of speculation and intellectualism. [snip .., no use in arguing on the level of liking brussel sprouts. I wonder what they did to deserve the bad press. Must have been one of God's off days when he created them. ] > >> "Sorce of Life" being a concept containing many gaps which we are all > >> capable of filling in with explanations to satisfy our own particular > >> world view. > > > >I find "Source of Life" to be quite clear and unambiguous. > >Few gaps for me there. I came across a book title many > >years ago and it was something like "Absolute Nothingness: > >The foundation for a Christian-Buddhist dialogue". > >I think that "Absolute Nothingness" should be the foundation > >for any dialogue, and there are no gaps in there. > > Oh, that's very interesting. If this is what people should be doing, > and there are no gaps, the subject seems to be completely wrapped up, > doesn't it ? On the contrary, the subject is completely open. >I'm not sure I see how that represents a more open minded > position than the one you're criticising, but maybe that would become > clear in practice. It becomes clear when you realize that it is a "no mind" position. > We'll have to see whether any Christians pop up here > so we can see how you'd conduct a dialogue with them. That *would* be interesting even for myself. [snip ..] > Are you asking me to elaborate on the methods I use when working with > clients ? Or was that a general "you" ? It is a general "you". > I'll share one thing. Thanks for sharing. -- Namo Amito Fo Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 06:46:53 +0200 Lines: 105 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 06:59:00 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-203.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13574 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:ouYNWDA25KJAVwVF@rigbys.demon.co.uk... Let me play the devil's advocate a bit. > I'll share one thing. As "healer", one of the situations I often > encounter is with the client who expects me to provide all the answers. As a healer you are supposed to know. You are the expert. You studied these things, so you must know. > Sometimes, this is appropriate, where my professional training has > provided me with access to practical information which would be > supportive and the sharing of which would empower the client to proceed > further with their own independent healing. In other instances, > particularly where discussion moves to "meaning of Life" areas, I do not > claim to have any better information or opinions than the person I'm > working with. Said in the right tone, an answer of "I don't know, what > do you think ?" can be extremely encouraging. You mean that you are as miserable as I am? And if that is not the case then how can you say that you do not have better information, attitudes or beliefs than I have? > It equalises the balance > between "healer" and "client" by recognising that the clients own > answers are of equal validity to any I may come up with. But the clients answers are NOT of equal validity, after all he is in the shit and you are not. What makes the difference other than you having something superior? >It also > minimises the risks of the client transferring personal power to the > healer, or the healer fostering their own sense of superiority This has to do with the healer and not with the philosophical stance taken. >by > feeling that their philosophical stance is of a higher level than that > of the person with them, which are most undesirable situations to > create. But some stance are of a higher level, aren't they? If all are of equal validity, (value?), then why should it matter which one I adopt? Are you saying that a selfish, gangster type philosophy is on the same level as a Mother Theresa one? > >We can use words, images, symbols, sounds, and > >all the other senses, but in every aspect we need to > >know why we are doing it and what we expect as a > >result. > > In terms of Reiki ? I do it because we have experience and/or trust > that there will be some positive outcome. Expectation of any particular > pre-defined result does not really form part of the Reiki I practice, > which is far more about cultivating an attitude of non-attachment & > simply being with the movement of the flow. Is it different for you ? Let's assume a client comes to you and says, "I have this pain in my shoulder" and you do Reiki on him. Next time he comes and says "I still have pain in my shoulder, but the pain I had in my left foot is gone" and you do Reiki on him. Next time he comes and says "I still have pain in my shoulder, but the pain I had in my right foot is gone" and you do Reiki on him. Then he comes and says "I still have a bloody lot of pain in my shoulder and that is what I came here for to begin with. I could live with my pain in both feet but I need my arm and a pain free shoulder to be able to do my job. When are you going to do something about THAT?" Are you going to tell him about "cultivating an attitude of non-attachment" and being "with the the flow?" which is clearly not the flow the client would like to have. I think that when you set yourself up as a healer, there is an implicit understanding, that you will deliver what the client wants to have delivered. This means a specific result, not just any result. At least part of the result should be that the original complaint is alleviated, unless you can show clearly that it is caused by some other factors. I people come with a complaint and you persistenly "cure" something else other than their complaint, would you not start wondering what the hell you are doing? IMO, non-attachment refers to this reflective loop of examining your treatment and its effects, and not to non-attachment to a result in a client. It is the recurrent debate of focused vs unfocused in another form. -- Namo Amito Fo Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 05:14:13 +0000 Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <4025c20f.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076217255 18308 194.222.30.223 (8 Feb 2004 05:14:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 05:14:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13575 I am now quite confused. In article <4025c20f.0@news1.mweb.co.za>, pr writes: > > >It would be of no use to for me to talk to a Christian by using >Buddhist terms and concepts. And even within Christianity >there is sufficient disagreement about various matters that >I do need to become a yes-man even when adopting its >terminology and concepts on a temporary bais. Having previously written: >I find "Source of Life" to be quite clear and unambiguous. >Few gaps for me there. I came across a book title many >years ago and it was something like "Absolute Nothingness: >The foundation for a Christian-Buddhist dialogue". >I think that "Absolute Nothingness" should be the foundation >for any dialogue, and there are no gaps in there. Is "Absolute Nothingness" not a Buddhist term or concept ? -- Judy ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 07:18:19 +0200 Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-154.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402631ae.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 14:55:10 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-154.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-154.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13581 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:am7BkHA7KSJAVwy3@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > Garry & Rich > > (Please forgive me Peter, I know these points were addressed to you, but > I'd like to add something) > > I don't think it's a question of "doing a number" or being inauthentic. > As "healers", presumably we are open to accepting people who come to us > for support, irrespective of their religious or cultural backgrounds, > yes ? [snip ... ] Who could take exception to such a thoughtful and well written post? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 10:08 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076234927 36707451 D 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13577 (Judy Rigby) wrote: > Is "Absolute Nothingness" not a Buddhist term or concept ? Stuart ###### From: "Rena" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:47:54 +0100 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e6c7.4675947@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-212-144-071-104.arcor-ip.net (212.144.71.104) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076242283 37007731 D 212.144.71.104 ([11005]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!dialin-212-144-071-104.arcor-ip.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13578 "Judy Rigby"schrieb: > Garry Williams schrieb: > >Damn, she's good! > Good God, man ! Get up before people start talking ..... > > ;) ...and Germany is listen too.... ;-))) I wish You all a nice time with best wishes to Sunday! Alles Liebe, Rena ###### From: "Rena" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 13:01:42 +0100 Lines: 117 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-212-144-071-104.arcor-ip.net (212.144.71.104) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076242284 37007731 D 212.144.71.104 ([11005]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!dialin-212-144-071-104.arcor-ip.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13579 Judy, I respect Your feeling, but Peter must be do the first heartly step to feel to each other from here, to help and respekt himself - and than we can do for him all other; that´s my feeling in my discretion.... ;-)) Alles Liebe, Rena "Judy Rigby" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:am7BkHA7KSJAVwy3@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > Garry & Rich > > (Please forgive me Peter, I know these points were addressed to you, but > I'd like to add something) > > > I don't think it's a question of "doing a number" or being inauthentic. > As "healers", presumably we are open to accepting people who come to us > for support, irrespective of their religious or cultural backgrounds, > yes ? > > (I *do* hope so, else we're all on a hiding to nothing here ;) ) > > That being the case, why on earth should we assume that their beliefs > and understanding are any less valuable and acceptable to them than our > own are to ourselves ? Take an example. A client arrives for their > first Reiki treatment. Although they've never heard of it, they have > been told that it will help reduce their stress levels. They are > interested to find out more. And they ask you where the Reiki energy > comes from. What are you going to say, given that one of the first > things they tell you is that they are a practicing Muslim ? If you head > in with *your* belief ... and that belief conflicts with *their* > beliefs, then you're in murky waters before you start. In fact you > probably won't start because they'll be out of the door. But you *can* > deal with the question in a way that won't create conflict. The method > I've used for a long time now, because it seemed to work, is to say > something along the lines of: > > Well, that's a very profound question. We are talking about healing > here, and you are asking me where does healing come from. My personal > belief, which I do not ask you to share is that it comes from the very > origins and source of Life, however we describe that. Where would your > beliefs say that healing comes from ? > > and chances are that somewhere soon they'll say Allah. Which is fine by > me. There's no dissonance between what I've said and what they've said, > I know where they're coming from, they know I won't disrespect that, so > we can work together happily. I can agree that "Allah" is an > appropriate name for them to call it, without feeling remotely > inauthentic or yes-personish about it, in the same way that I can agree > any name of deity of choice is ok for them to hold as a working > description. For those of a scientific frame of mind I have stacks of > the Toni Bunnell article, and for those who plain haven't a clue we > usually agree well in that case best just to get on with it & do the > treatment ... ;) > > (I must say, Peter's given me some pause for thought, because it's the > first time anyone's taken exception to "Source of Life" as a neutrally > descriptive term. I may have to think of something else so I don't fail > to offer accommodation for those who would like "Absolute Nothingness" > as their preferred option out of the many.) > > Y'see, I think it's no damn business of mine *what* beliefs someone > holds when they're in my practice room looking for me to support them in > their healing. And it's most certainly not part of my role to say, > hint, imply or otherwise that the model of the universe they hold needs > to be altered by me. I may have my moments, but even at my worst I try > to avoid being that presumptuous. 5 years ago, a client provided me > with a great learning. Without too much detail, he's a practising > christian (churchwarden, actually) was and dealing with great courage > and dignity with the consequences of a prostate cancer which was likely > to spread to the bone. He was absolutely certain he would not live more > than a couple of years, although he did have an ambition to see 80. > While having the "where does Reiki come from" conversation he said from > the bottom of his heart: > > "Judy. I NEED there to be a God. If there is no God, then my life has > had no meaning and it may as well end now." > > And I accepted his need, delved back into my mind for what I know of the > language & concepts of the Church of England so I'd know what he was > talking about & could respond appropriately, & we've never looked back. > He celebrated his 80th birthday last year, says his weekly Reiki or > massage sessions keep him sane & has now upgraded his ambition by > another 5 years so we're aiming at 85 .... > > > > > and hey ! I'm improving. This one's going out at just under 90 minutes. > But the moment someone on the textile craft newsgroup comes back at me > with the answer to a tricky technical question that's bogging down my > progress, I'm off this computer again :))))))) > > > > > > > >> Could you make that a little clearer please, Peter? Are you saying we > >> should be prepared to give them whatever model sounds good to them, > >> regardless of whether we ourselves have any doubts or understanding of > >> that model? Is being a "yes-man" a desirable attribute in a healer? > >> (Hmmm, OTOH, if Kevin (arthealer) were to reply to that last question, > >> I think he might say "obviously yes"....) Should we be prepared to > >> offer a model, even if our own experience and understanding do not > >> support or "resonate" with it? > >> > >> Love and Light, > >> > >> Garry > > -- > Judy ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:48:37 +0000 Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076244505 6563 194.222.30.223 (8 Feb 2004 12:48:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 12:48:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13580 pr writes > >Let me play the devil's advocate a bit. I'm sorry, Peter, but today I do not have the time to do justice to your post, nor am I likely to in the next few days with what's going on in my private life, so I must bow out of this thread and maybe ahr altogether for a while. Yesterday was fun, today is another day :) I hope some other good person here will continue to debate with you if that's what you'd like, and until we "meet" again (virtually speaking) I wish you peace, good health and happiness :) -- Judy ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:30:11 +0200 Lines: 122 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-198.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4026591f.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 17:43:27 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-198.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-198.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13587 "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040208100843.1808H@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (Judy Rigby) wrote: > > > Is "Absolute Nothingness" not a Buddhist term or concept ? > > > > Stuart > > Well, let's see ....... Let me quote Meister Eckehart: "All creatures are a pure nothing: I don't say that they are something small or something to begin with, but that they are a pure Nothing." Original text in modern German: "Alle Kreaturen sind ein reines Nichts: ich sage nicht, dass sie etwas Geringes oder (ueberhaupt) irgend etwas sind, sondern dass sie ein reines Nichts sind." Satz 26 in der Bulle des Pabst Johannes XXII, 27. March 1329. "Love the nothing, flee the self." -Mechtild of Magdeburg "God is a being beyond being and a nothingness beyond being. God is nothing. No thing. God is nothingness. And yet God is something." -Meister Eckehardt "Are you willing to be sponged out, erased, cancelled, made nothing? Are you willing to be made nothing? dipped into oblivion? If not, you will never change." D.H Lawrence "We need to think about exctinction in a meaningful way." -Johnathan Schell However, Nothingness may also be spoken about as darkness or silence. "The ground of the soul is dark." -Meister Eckehardt "I said to my soul, be still, and let the dark come upon you, which shall be the darkness of God." - T.S. Eliot "Be still Listen to the stones of the wall Be silent, they try to speak to your Name. Listen To the living walls. Who are you? Who are you? Whose Silence are you." -Thomas Merton "Yet no matter how deeply I go into myself my God is dark, and like a webbing made of a hundred roots, that drink the silence." - Rainer Maria Rilke "If we allow the night, if we allow what she is in the darkness to be, this knowledge, this that we have not yet named: what we are. Oh, this knowledge of what we are is becoming clear." -Susan Griffin Jesus Christ spent a couple of days in the desert, another possible image for nothingness. The foregoing should be enough to show that nothingness, darkness, silence and other images of emptiness are not at all foreign to our Western culture. However, what is known as the Via Negativa is not cultivated. It may be seen as negative rather than negating and may thus be met with ignorance and hostility. Nowadays we have to be almost compulsively positive. Letting pain be pain is unheard of - unlike Job 30:16, 17, 19 "The life in me trickles away, days of grief have gripped me. At night-time sickness saps my bones, I am gnawed by wounds that never sleep. It has thrown me into the mud where I am no better than dust and ashes. I cry to you, and you give me no answers; I stand before you, but you take no notice." Void, Emptiness, Nothingness, Darkness, Silence. "If we could learn from pain even as it grasps us ...." -Adrienne Rich -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e1ba.3382369@news.Individual.NET> <40250E64.72B39A61@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 16:52:41 +0200 Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-198.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40265921.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 8 Feb 2004 17:43:29 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-198.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-198.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13588 "Rena" wrote in message news:c0591b$139cbj$2@ID-11005.news.uni-berlin.de... > > Judy, I respect Your feeling, but Peter must be do the first heartly > step to feel to each other from here, to help and respekt himself - > and than we can do for him all other; > that´s my feeling in my discretion.... ;-)) > > Alles Liebe, ~Rena I find your "Alles Liebe" and your depiction of me as not feeling for others, and not respecting myself, and being unable or unwilling to help myself as somewhat contradictory. Maybe I could understand it better if you would adress these things to myself rather than other people, although I acknowledge that my previous "rebuke" may be a deterrent. Just to clarify, by "adressing things to myself" I do not mean private e-mail. If I say something in this public forum then I am also willing to take any resulting fall-out in public. -- Namo Amito Fo Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 56 Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 16:37:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1076258221 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:37:01 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 Feb 2004 09:37:01 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!38.144.126.100.MISMATCH!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13591 Just a quick comment about your case study, Peter. What you are describing is pretty much the way the structural re-integration disciplines work, like Rolfing. The shoulder pain could definitely be caused by the alignment of the feet or leg structure. Is your case study 'made up' or real? If it is 'made up' then we just have to wait and see when the script writers allow more good stuff to happen. If the account is real, then you (or the healer) has a bit of a communication dilemma at hand. The solution must be found somewhere in the relationship developed between client and practitioner, allowing that this must happen fairly rapidly....and it certainly can do so. :) Cheers Rich pr wrote: > > > Let's assume a client comes to you and says, "I have this > pain in my shoulder" and you do Reiki on him. Next time > he comes and says "I still have pain in my shoulder, but > the pain I had in my left foot is gone" and you do Reiki on > him. Next time he comes and says "I still have pain in my > shoulder, but the pain I had in my right foot is gone" and you > do Reiki on him. Then he comes and says "I still have > a bloody lot of pain in my shoulder and that is what I came > here for to begin with. I could live with my pain in both feet > but I need my arm and a pain free shoulder to be able to > do my job. When are you going to do something about THAT?" > Are you going to tell him about "cultivating an attitude of > non-attachment" and being "with the the flow?" which is > clearly not the flow the client would like to have. > > I think that when you set yourself up as a healer, there > is an implicit understanding, that you will deliver what > the client wants to have delivered. This means a specific > result, not just any result. At least part of the result should > be that the original complaint is alleviated, unless you can > show clearly that it is caused by some other factors. > I people come with a complaint and you persistenly > "cure" something else other than their complaint, would > you not start wondering what the hell you are doing? > IMO, non-attachment refers to this reflective loop of > examining your treatment and its effects, and not to > non-attachment to a result in a client. > > It is the recurrent debate of focused vs unfocused in > another form. > > -- > Namo Amito Fo > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:17:54 +0000 Lines: 87 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076282545 21055 194.222.30.223 (8 Feb 2004 23:22:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:22:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13597 In and out again in very short order, being as I'm in the calm betwen two storms right now, so to speak. Just a couple of off the top of the head comments to Peter about his case study which might alter the scenario. First, if you're a responsible practitioner, you'll find out the history & nature of any presenting condition. Nothing in UK Reiki (or other therapy) training qualifies one to diagnose conditions. Indeed, it is unlawful to do so without appropriate medical qualification. Depending on such factors as diagnosis, duration, severity etc of pain, I would consider with my client whether Reiki was the most appropriate method. The client could be better served by a course in another therapy, or maybe again would be better off being referred outside my practice should the presenting condition be one which has shown to respond well to that therapy. (This is not to say that in every case, specific conditons respond to specific therapies. When I worked as student & newly qualified massage practitioner in a Comp. Therapy centre for people with multiple sclerosis, I was very interested to see how differently people responded to application of particular therapies even though all had ms. This didn't just apply to the ones involving human contact. I saw the same thing with users of the hypobaric oxygen chamber.) Back to the case study. Before the treatment commenced, the client would be told that under no circumstances could a cure be *guaranteed*. This again is in accordance with UK law which states that it is not lawful for complementary therapists to claim curative powers. I would explain that Reiki is designed to place the person in the optimum conditions for their own internal healing processes to operate efficently ... etc That it is very effective at doing that, but that it is not an instant thing. That repeat treatments may be required, and that we might decide during that course that progress was not as hoped, and switch to a different method. Some clients actually prefer an overtly manipulative therapy. If after that, the client decided to receive Reiki treatment, they would be doing so with some idea what to expect. Would that approach have changed anything in your case study, Peter ? >pr wrote: >> >> >> Let's assume a client comes to you and says, "I have this >> pain in my shoulder" and you do Reiki on him. Next time >> he comes and says "I still have pain in my shoulder, but >> the pain I had in my left foot is gone" and you do Reiki on >> him. Next time he comes and says "I still have pain in my >> shoulder, but the pain I had in my right foot is gone" and you >> do Reiki on him. Then he comes and says "I still have >> a bloody lot of pain in my shoulder and that is what I came >> here for to begin with. I could live with my pain in both feet >> but I need my arm and a pain free shoulder to be able to >> do my job. When are you going to do something about THAT?" >> Are you going to tell him about "cultivating an attitude of >> non-attachment" and being "with the the flow?" which is >> clearly not the flow the client would like to have. >> >> I think that when you set yourself up as a healer, there >> is an implicit understanding, that you will deliver what >> the client wants to have delivered. This means a specific >> result, not just any result. At least part of the result should >> be that the original complaint is alleviated, unless you can >> show clearly that it is caused by some other factors. >> I people come with a complaint and you persistenly >> "cure" something else other than their complaint, would >> you not start wondering what the hell you are doing? >> IMO, non-attachment refers to this reflective loop of >> examining your treatment and its effects, and not to >> non-attachment to a result in a client. >> >> It is the recurrent debate of focused vs unfocused in >> another form. >> >> -- >> Namo Amito Fo >> Peter Reber >> "Life knows its needs" -- Judy ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4027329D.BC764E73@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 07:12:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1076310741 24.71.223.147 (Mon, 09 Feb 2004 00:12:21 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 00:12:21 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.alt.net!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13609 Hi Judy, Your coaching is superb. Thanks. I actually believe Peter uses your format (Hi Peter!) and I was just poking a finger in his ribs for using the case study. Nothing serious...just the mood I was in at the moment. :) Please accept Reiki for your stormy issues! Cheers Rich Judy Rigby wrote: > > In and out again in very short order, being as I'm in the calm betwen > two storms right now, so to speak. > > Just a couple of off the top of the head comments to Peter about his > case study which might alter the scenario. ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:58:01 +0200 Lines: 77 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-169.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 11 Feb 2004 09:33:47 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-169.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-169.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13645 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:bIthPSAiOsJAVwQv@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > > > In and out again in very short order, being as I'm in the calm betwen > two storms right now, so to speak. > > Just a couple of off the top of the head comments to Peter about his > case study which might alter the scenario. First, if you're a > responsible practitioner, you'll find out the history & nature of any > presenting condition. Nothing in UK Reiki (or other therapy) training > qualifies one to diagnose conditions. Indeed, it is unlawful to do so > without appropriate medical qualification. Depending on such factors as > diagnosis, duration, severity etc of pain, I would consider with my > client whether Reiki was the most appropriate method. The client could > be better served by a course in another therapy, or maybe again would be > better off being referred outside my practice should the presenting > condition be one which has shown to respond well to that therapy. [snip ...] > Back to the case study. Before the treatment commenced, the client would > be told that under no circumstances could a cure be *guaranteed*. This > again is in accordance with UK law which states that it is not lawful > for complementary therapists to claim curative powers. I would explain > that Reiki is designed to place the person in the optimum conditions for > their own internal healing processes to operate efficently ... etc That > it is very effective at doing that, but that it is not an instant thing. > That repeat treatments may be required, and that we might decide during > that course that progress was not as hoped, and switch to a different > method. > > Some clients actually prefer an overtly manipulative therapy. > > If after that, the client decided to receive Reiki treatment, they would > be doing so with some idea what to expect. > > > Would that approach have changed anything in your case study, Peter ? ~Judy, it would depend on the client, and since it is a made up case I can write the script in any way I want, but there is no point in stringing this out. There are two things I would like to mention. The first one is how technical and cold the above text reads. The human spirit seems to have disappeared, replaced by "correctness" and "law abiding". This is not to pick an argument, since you, like everybody else, has to operate in a certain environment, but to bring awareness to what this environment does to human relations. The second thing ties up with some threads of recent months. People may have tried everything else which is commonly known as threatment, at least in their minds. They may come and see you as the last resort, your last hope. Just like some thousand of miles to see some healer like the guy in South America. To meet them with a "technicians" approach may already prejudice the healing success. You talk of returning the person to optimum conditions for their own internal healing, quite rightly so, but I see very little discussion here about what these optimum conditions are and how they can be supported. To conclude, I am pretty certain that the above, with its coldness is not a true reflection of your interaction with clients, which makes me wonder how we fall into these things? Is it because we want to brief and concise? Does sequential logic and trying to be consistent impose its stamp? -- Namo Amito Fo Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 09:26:53 GMT Lines: 107 Message-ID: <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka04k.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.0.148) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076491253 39065487 I 207.69.0.148 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka04k.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13647 Peter, how does the old line go? "It's not what you say, it's how you say it." Judy's laundry list may sound cold to you (didn't to me, but then, I'm just weird, perhaps? :-) ), but maybe that is because she was simply listing thoughts quickly for the purpose of explaining to you, a fellow practitioner, instead of phrasing these things in a more elaborate, warm and sensitive fashion for an actual client. After all, she's not talking to a client now, she's talking to a fellow practitioner, hurriedly ("In and out again in short order" she says below). Also, with the written word, it's more difficult to judge delivery. A smile, a warm, understanding and respectful tone of voice and a squeeze of the hand can go a long way towards changing the perception of a "cold" statement to a "warm and fuzzy" one. Perhaps you should give the devil her due? ( apologies all around for words like "should" and "devil") As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for them than you can do for anyone else you work with? namaste, Garry On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:58:01 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"Judy Rigby" wrote in message >news:bIthPSAiOsJAVwQv@rigbys.demon.co.uk... >> >> >> In and out again in very short order, being as I'm in the calm betwen >> two storms right now, so to speak. >> >> Just a couple of off the top of the head comments to Peter about his >> case study which might alter the scenario. First, if you're a >> responsible practitioner, you'll find out the history & nature of any >> presenting condition. Nothing in UK Reiki (or other therapy) training >> qualifies one to diagnose conditions. Indeed, it is unlawful to do so >> without appropriate medical qualification. Depending on such factors as >> diagnosis, duration, severity etc of pain, I would consider with my >> client whether Reiki was the most appropriate method. The client could >> be better served by a course in another therapy, or maybe again would be >> better off being referred outside my practice should the presenting >> condition be one which has shown to respond well to that therapy. > >[snip ...] > >> Back to the case study. Before the treatment commenced, the client would >> be told that under no circumstances could a cure be *guaranteed*. This >> again is in accordance with UK law which states that it is not lawful >> for complementary therapists to claim curative powers. I would explain >> that Reiki is designed to place the person in the optimum conditions for >> their own internal healing processes to operate efficently ... etc That >> it is very effective at doing that, but that it is not an instant thing. >> That repeat treatments may be required, and that we might decide during >> that course that progress was not as hoped, and switch to a different >> method. >> >> Some clients actually prefer an overtly manipulative therapy. >> >> If after that, the client decided to receive Reiki treatment, they would >> be doing so with some idea what to expect. >> >> >> Would that approach have changed anything in your case study, Peter ? > >~Judy, > >it would depend on the client, and since it is a made up case >I can write the script in any way I want, but there is no point >in stringing this out. >There are two things I would like to mention. The first one >is how technical and cold the above text reads. The human >spirit seems to have disappeared, replaced by "correctness" >and "law abiding". This is not to pick an argument, since you, >like everybody else, has to operate in a certain environment, >but to bring awareness to what this environment does to >human relations. >The second thing ties up with some threads of recent months. >People may have tried everything else which is commonly >known as threatment, at least in their minds. They may come >and see you as the last resort, your last hope. Just like some >thousand of miles to see some healer like the guy in South >America. To meet them with a "technicians" approach may >already prejudice the healing success. >You talk of returning the person to optimum conditions for >their own internal healing, quite rightly so, but I see very >little discussion here about what these optimum conditions >are and how they can be supported. >To conclude, I am pretty certain that the above, with its coldness >is not a true reflection of your interaction with clients, which >makes me wonder how we fall into these things? Is it because >we want to brief and concise? Does sequential logic and >trying to be consistent impose its stamp? > >-- >Namo Amito Fo >Peter Reber >"Life knows its needs" > > > ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 101 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 11:44:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1076499859 65.33.138.52 (Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:44:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 06:44:19 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!feed.news.schlund.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.maxwell.syr.edu!stdio!newsfeed.frii.net!newsfeed.frii.net!140.99.99.194.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13650 "pr" wrote in message >>To conclude, I am pretty certain that the above, with its coldness is not a true reflection of your interaction with clients, which makes me wonder how we fall into these things? Is it because we want to brief and concise? Does sequential logic and trying to be consistent impose its stamp?<< (See entire message below) Or is it because we can not separate that which we can not explain from that which is explainable? The Simple truth is that no one can explain how and why the energy used during a reiki treatment works. All anyone can do is "theorize" or attempt to place the workings within the structure of yet another alternative healing modality. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "pr" wrote in message news:4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "Judy Rigby" wrote in message > news:bIthPSAiOsJAVwQv@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > > > > > > In and out again in very short order, being as I'm in the calm betwen > > two storms right now, so to speak. > > > > Just a couple of off the top of the head comments to Peter about his > > case study which might alter the scenario. First, if you're a > > responsible practitioner, you'll find out the history & nature of any > > presenting condition. Nothing in UK Reiki (or other therapy) training > > qualifies one to diagnose conditions. Indeed, it is unlawful to do so > > without appropriate medical qualification. Depending on such factors as > > diagnosis, duration, severity etc of pain, I would consider with my > > client whether Reiki was the most appropriate method. The client could > > be better served by a course in another therapy, or maybe again would be > > better off being referred outside my practice should the presenting > > condition be one which has shown to respond well to that therapy. > > [snip ...] > > > Back to the case study. Before the treatment commenced, the client would > > be told that under no circumstances could a cure be *guaranteed*. This > > again is in accordance with UK law which states that it is not lawful > > for complementary therapists to claim curative powers. I would explain > > that Reiki is designed to place the person in the optimum conditions for > > their own internal healing processes to operate efficently ... etc That > > it is very effective at doing that, but that it is not an instant thing. > > That repeat treatments may be required, and that we might decide during > > that course that progress was not as hoped, and switch to a different > > method. > > > > Some clients actually prefer an overtly manipulative therapy. > > > > If after that, the client decided to receive Reiki treatment, they would > > be doing so with some idea what to expect. > > > > > > Would that approach have changed anything in your case study, Peter ? > > ~Judy, > > it would depend on the client, and since it is a made up case > I can write the script in any way I want, but there is no point > in stringing this out. > There are two things I would like to mention. The first one > is how technical and cold the above text reads. The human > spirit seems to have disappeared, replaced by "correctness" > and "law abiding". This is not to pick an argument, since you, > like everybody else, has to operate in a certain environment, > but to bring awareness to what this environment does to > human relations. > The second thing ties up with some threads of recent months. > People may have tried everything else which is commonly > known as threatment, at least in their minds. They may come > and see you as the last resort, your last hope. Just like some > thousand of miles to see some healer like the guy in South > America. To meet them with a "technicians" approach may > already prejudice the healing success. > You talk of returning the person to optimum conditions for > their own internal healing, quite rightly so, but I see very > little discussion here about what these optimum conditions > are and how they can be supported. > To conclude, I am pretty certain that the above, with its coldness > is not a true reflection of your interaction with clients, which > makes me wonder how we fall into these things? Is it because > we want to brief and concise? Does sequential logic and > trying to be consistent impose its stamp? > > -- > Namo Amito Fo > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:19:10 +0200 Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-89.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 12 Feb 2004 21:19:13 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-89.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-89.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13682 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET... > Peter, how does the old line go? "It's not what you say, it's how you > say it." Judy's laundry list may sound cold to you (didn't to me, but > then, I'm just weird, perhaps? :-) ), You mean weird such as not noticing such things? >but maybe that is because she > was simply listing thoughts quickly for the purpose of explaining to > you, a fellow practitioner, Why would a fellow practitioner need to have these things explained? > Perhaps you should give the devil her due? ( apologies all around > for words like "should" and "devil") I have few problems with "should" and even less with "devil". > As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of > miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you > don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, > most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for > them than you can do for anyone else you work with? These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal times. Someone made a comment recently as to why Reiki practitioners should/would be different to ordinary people. The writer seemed to imply that his answer would be "nothing". As most people walk around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of our time. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 03:56:41 GMT Lines: 76 Message-ID: <402c456c.1578014@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka86q.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.32.218) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076644233 39471784 I 207.69.32.218 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka86q.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13694 On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:19:10 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET... >> Peter, how does the old line go? "It's not what you say, it's how you >> say it." Judy's laundry list may sound cold to you (didn't to me, but >> then, I'm just weird, perhaps? :-) ), > >You mean weird such as not noticing such things? Ah, Peter, Peter. There are 6 billion people on this planet. Must every last one of them agree with you? If they do not, is that proof that they are wrong and you are right? Different people take the exact same statement in different ways depending on their characters, their experiences, the time of day and a host of other variables, and you know it. >>but maybe that is because she >> was simply listing thoughts quickly for the purpose of explaining to >> you, a fellow practitioner, > >Why would a fellow practitioner need to have these things explained? In that case, I must ask why you were conversing with her on the subject at all? >> Perhaps you should give the devil her due? ( apologies all around >> for words like "should" and "devil") > >I have few problems with "should" and even less with "devil". I'm glad about the "devil" since it was Judy who was being referred to by that word. :-) >> As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of >> miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you >> don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, >> most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for >> them than you can do for anyone else you work with? > >These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody >comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands >of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will >think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you >are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal >times. I find it difficult to believe that someone would travel 1000's of miles to seek me out since I have not established a reputation as a miracle worker. However, just for the sake of argument, if they had, I would gently explain that I am not a miracle worker, I am a Reiki practitioner (insert lengthy explanation of what that is for client's sake) but that I will gladly avail them of my services should they choose to accept them, or refer them to someone else if they like. What's so difficult and unusual about being honest and direct? >Someone made a comment recently as to why Reiki practitioners >should/would be different to ordinary people. The writer seemed to >imply that his answer would be "nothing". As most people walk >around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and >I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of our >time. Reiki practitioners *are* ordinary people. We have chosen a different path than those who did not choose Reiki for various reasons, those reasons varying from one individual to the next. Some have made some spiritual progress because of the art, and some have made not so much progress. I imagine the same can be said about nearly any spiritually oriented group of people you care to name. So why do you find it scary to know that we are what we are? namaste, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402c456c.1578014@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 07:44:01 +0200 Lines: 112 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-10.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402c64bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 13 Feb 2004 07:46:35 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-10.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.moat.net!news.linkpendium.com!teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-10.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13697 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:402c456c.1578014@news.Individual.NET... > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:19:10 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message > >news:4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET... > >> Peter, how does the old line go? "It's not what you say, it's how you > >> say it." Judy's laundry list may sound cold to you (didn't to me, but > >> then, I'm just weird, perhaps? :-) ), > > > >You mean weird such as not noticing such things? > > Ah, Peter, Peter. There are 6 billion people on this planet. Must > every last one of them agree with you? If they do not, is that proof > that they are wrong and you are right? Oh, my, I guess I should have added a smiley at the end. > >>but maybe that is because she > >> was simply listing thoughts quickly for the purpose of explaining to > >> you, a fellow practitioner, > > > >Why would a fellow practitioner need to have these things explained? > > In that case, I must ask why you were conversing with her on the > subject at all? It started with trees as a healing presence where I asked what is it which makes that possible so that it can become an experience that can be passed on. I then stated that we need to take responsibility for a result whereupon it became all very legalistic. I find it interesting that with regards to my voiced concerns we have not moved at all. There was a thread "I Have changed my mind" listing a few things were I have shifted. It had one response from you, but not about what has changed for you, but trying to coax more information (data) from me. This "sterility" of discussion seems to be a pattern. Very little new or challenging is injected, with the exception of Rich who is IMO (better add that) one of the very few (and presently the only one coming to mind) who is prepared and probably able to see below the surface. > >> As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of > >> miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you > >> don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, > >> most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for > >> them than you can do for anyone else you work with? > > > >These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody > >comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands > >of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will > >think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you > >are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal > >times. > > I find it difficult to believe that someone would travel 1000's of > miles to seek me out since I have not established a reputation as a > miracle worker. However, just for the sake of argument, if they had, I > would gently explain that I am not a miracle worker, I am a Reiki > practitioner (insert lengthy explanation of what that is for client's > sake) but that I will gladly avail them of my services should they > choose to accept them, or refer them to someone else if they like. You see, another escape. I asked you to assume, to imagine, something children still find easy to do. You give me a reason why that would not happen and go on with an proposed course of action which to me sounds again very technical. > What's so difficult and unusual about being honest and direct? I am afraid that is the wrong question again. It does not help the client to be direct. It does not help him for you to be honest because he already knows what you tell him, he knew that before he had eft, and still he has come to you. What are you telling him which he does not know? > >Someone made a comment recently as to why Reiki practitioners > >should/would be different to ordinary people. The writer seemed to > >imply that his answer would be "nothing". As most people walk > >around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and > >I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of our > >time. > > Reiki practitioners *are* ordinary people. We have chosen a different > path than those who did not choose Reiki for various reasons, those > reasons varying from one individual to the next. Some have made some > spiritual progress because of the art, and some have made not so much > progress. I imagine the same can be said about nearly any spiritually > oriented group of people you care to name. So why do you find it scary > to know that we are what we are? Because there does not seem to be a spirit of curiosity, exploration and investigation. Ideas seem to be set solid. Certain things are accepted or "acceptable" and other are not or less so. Prisoners of our chosen path, but prisoners nonetheless. You do noy dispute that we are at best for an extremely limited period of our waking time and it looks to me that this is quite acceptable for you, because we are (only) ordinary people. Anybody who does not find that scary must be out of their mind. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Message-ID: <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 64 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 19:44:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076701459 65.30.225.94 (Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:44:19 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 13:44:19 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13718 pr wrote: > > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > >but maybe that is because she > > was simply listing thoughts quickly for the purpose of explaining to > > you, a fellow practitioner, > > Why would a fellow practitioner need to have these things explained? As I see it: (1) She was asked to responded to a question of how she would react. (2) To share the way she would handle the situation. (3) because lurkers were wondering how she would answer & she responded to the unasked request. :) > > As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of > > miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you > > don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, > > most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for > > them than you can do for anyone else you work with? > > These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody > comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands > of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will > think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you > are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal > times. Are you saying that the normal treatment given by Reiki practitioners is "mediocre" & that they only deliver *GOOD* treatment when pressured to perform? > Someone made a comment recently as to why Reiki practitioners > should/would be different to ordinary people. The writer seemed to > imply that his answer would be "nothing". As most people walk > around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and > I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of our > time. IMO, this last sentence is *scary*. I would like to believe that anyone that claims to be a Reiki healer would give 100% of their ability, 100% of the time. GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <402D3FA8.A2E8D940@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402c456c.1578014@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 65 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:15:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076706917 65.30.225.94 (Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:15:17 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 15:15:17 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13722 Garry Williams wrote: > > >On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 "pr" wrote: > >These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody > >comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands > >of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will > >think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you > >are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal > >times. > > I find it difficult to believe that someone would travel 1000's of > miles to seek me out since I have not established a reputation as a > miracle worker. How can you be so sure that there isn't someone reading this newsgroup that may think, because of what you have said you can do, that you are a "miracle worker". > However, just for the sake of argument, if they had, I > would gently explain that I am not a miracle worker, Why destroy their belief? Why would you put doubt in their mind? To some people just the ability to relieve the pain in an injured finger is a miracle. Wouldn't a simple "I will do my best but can't promise anything " be a better response? > I am a Reiki practitioner > (insert lengthy explanation of what that is for client's sake) Wouldn't " I am a Reiki practitioner & not a medical practitioner so by law, I can't diagnose or claim to treat an illness or injury, but Reiki may be able to assist your body in healing." do just as well? > but that I will gladly avail them of my services should they > choose to accept them, or refer them to someone else if they like. > > What's so difficult and unusual about being honest and direct? For the same reason doctors are taught not to burden their patients with to much information. KISS :) GramPaHugs, Alex, > namaste, > > Garry -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:36 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <402D3FA8.A2E8D940@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076708198 42207100 D 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13724 (Alex Barna) wrote: > Why destroy their belief? > Why would you put doubt in their mind? I'd agree with those sentiments ... particularly when the general consensus (well, it is here, at least) is that we are the architects of our edifices ... no man, no plan, no Panama (to paraphrase and bastardise [and it ain't palindromic either]) .. Stuart ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:49:49 +0000 Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076709002 10480 194.222.30.223 (13 Feb 2004 21:50:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 21:50:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13725 Alex Barna writes > >As I see it: >(1) She was asked to responded to a question of how she would react. >(2) To share the way she would handle the situation. >(3) because lurkers were wondering how she would answer & she responded to the >unasked request. :) Yup, that's more or less it :) -- Judy ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:31:22 +0200 Lines: 78 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-94.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 14 Feb 2004 12:50:19 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-94.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-94.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13737 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com... > pr wrote: > > > > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > > > > As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of > > > miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you > > > don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, > > > most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for > > > them than you can do for anyone else you work with? > > > > These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody > > comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands > > of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will > > think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you > > are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal > > times. > > Are you saying that the normal treatment given by Reiki practitioners is > "mediocre" & that they only deliver *GOOD* treatment when pressured to perform? What I am saying is that compared to what is *possible* for a human being, as demonstrated sometimes by specific individuals, our whole life, and not just our Reiki practice must surely rank as "mediocre", or you prefer "not the best it could be". Look at the work environment where people sometimes do stupid things over and over. And once they have seemingly mastered the one thing they go on to do the next stupid thing, over and over. When giving a Reiki treatment, how often do our thoughts wander to something completely unrelated? Are they supposed to wander? Does it matter or not? Is it possible to be there completely for the client (100%) while one thinks about last nights soccer game or what one is going to cook for dinner? I am NOT saying that this is a deliberate thing! However, being prepared to take a "lackluster performance" as the standard of excellence is. As to pressure, I am taking your sentence to mean that the client somehow puts pressure on the practitioner. On the contrary, it would be the practitioner who exerts pressure on himself (unless you conclude that the client is an idiot to come such a long way to see you). I am further saying that this internally generated pressure has an influence on the practitioner and that this may well result in a greater awareness of himself and what he is doing, even if it may not be lasting. > > Someone made a comment recently as to why Reiki practitioners > > should/would be different to ordinary people. The writer seemed to > > imply that his answer would be "nothing". As most people walk > > around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and > > I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of our > > time. > IMO, this last sentence is *scary*. I would like to believe that anyone that > claims to be a Reiki healer would give 100% of their ability, 100% of the time. The difference is that you take "what they are able to give at the time" as the benchmark, I take "what is possible". Because of that you are happy with where you are,and I am aware that there are many things in which I could be better, not perfect, just a bit better. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "Rena" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 07:52:27 +0100 Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dialin-212-144-065-108.arcor-ip.net (212.144.65.108) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076741697 42357701 D 212.144.65.108 ([11005]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!dialin-212-144-065-108.arcor-ip.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13736 If I have behaved according to your opinion wrong, I apologize! But, lovely people, let it be enough, slowly. => I am on the ego-battle-field, here!? To send Reiki emotional in the situation is not anomalous in other group - but sorry, if intuition here incorrect. That´s strange! !! Rena "Judy Rigby" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:JAIldHA9ZULAVwjR@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > Alex Barna writes > > > >As I see it: > >(1) She was asked to responded to a question of how she would react. > >(2) To share the way she would handle the situation. > >(3) because lurkers were wondering how she would answer & she responded to the > >unasked request. :) > > > Yup, that's more or less it :) > -- > Judy ###### Message-ID: <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 118 Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:11:58 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076785890 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:11:30 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:11:30 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13739 pr wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > Are you saying that the normal treatment given by Reiki > > practitioners is "mediocre" & that they only deliver *GOOD* > > treatment when pressured to perform? > > What I am saying is that compared to what is *possible* for > a human being, as demonstrated sometimes by specific > individuals, our whole life, and not just our Reiki practice > must surely rank as "mediocre", or you prefer "not the > best it could be". OK!, I agree with this, though I would replace "mediocre" with "average" in life, & the teaching that what can be accomplished with Reiki is limited by the level of attunement rather than there is no limit to what can me accomplished once attuned if the practitioner will practice, practice, practice. > Look at the work environment where people sometimes do > stupid things over and over. And once they have seemingly > mastered the one thing they go on to do the next stupid thing, > over and over. I thought they only taught doing the same stupid thing over & over here in the American schools. :) > When giving a Reiki treatment, how often do our thoughts > wander to something completely unrelated? If the practitioner is being paid, I would hope they had trained their self to concentrate on their patient. > Are they supposed to wander? For the average practitioner I wouldn't think so, though I can activate the UE with out even a conscious thought. :) > Does it matter or not? That would depend on the individual & their level of self training. IMO/IME once activated UE will do what is intended without further thought. > Is it possible to be there > completely for the client (100%) while one thinks about last > nights soccer game or what one is going to cook for dinner? IMO, With training, Yes for some, No for most. > I am NOT saying that this is a deliberate thing! However, > being prepared to take a "lackluster performance" as the > standard of excellence is. Assuming that the practitioner realize it is a "lackluster performance" > As to pressure, I am taking your sentence to mean that the > client somehow puts pressure on the practitioner. On the > contrary, it would be the practitioner who exerts pressure > on himself (unless you conclude that the client is an idiot > to come such a long way to see you). I personally wouldn't think that because I have had a few people come a 'long way' to see me as a healer even though I don't have a healing practice or claim to be one. > I am further saying that > this internally generated pressure has an influence on the > practitioner and that this may well result in a greater > awareness of himself and what he is doing, even if it may > not be lasting. It is human nature to perform to the level expected. The Ego likes to be flattered. > > > As most people walk > > > around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and > > > I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of > > > our time. > > > IMO, this last sentence is *scary*. I would like to believe that > > anyone that claims to be a Reiki healer would give 100% of their > > ability, 100% of the time. > > The difference is that you take "what they are able to give at the > time" as the benchmark, I take "what is possible". IMO, anyone that could do "what is possible" with UE would have achived a god like state. > Because of > that you are happy with where you are, and I am aware that > there are many things in which I could be better, not perfect, > just a bit better. All I ask of myself or anyone else is the best that they are capable of at the time. I would hope that I and they would get better with practice. GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:33:54 +0200 Lines: 188 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-47.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 15 Feb 2004 07:55:07 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-47.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-47.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13745 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com... > pr wrote: > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > > What I am saying is that compared to what is *possible* for > > a human being, as demonstrated sometimes by specific > > individuals, our whole life, and not just our Reiki practice > > must surely rank as "mediocre", or you prefer "not the > > best it could be". > > OK!, I agree with this, though I would replace "mediocre" with "average" in > life, & the teaching that what can be accomplished with Reiki is limited by the > level of attunement rather than there is no limit to what can me accomplished > once attuned if the practitioner will practice, practice, practice. I am just waiting for someone to now break into this thread disputing that the level of attunement limits what can be accomplished. I am in two minds about this and keep an open mind. > > When giving a Reiki treatment, how often do our thoughts > > wander to something completely unrelated? > > If the practitioner is being paid, I would hope they had trained their self to > concentrate on their patient. Trained yes, but how long does it take meditators to acquire a still mind? Many have difficulty for 10 years or more years. And we have not resolved the question of what is the appropriate focus? The patient, or the flow, or Self (capital S), or feelings, or nothing? > > Are they supposed to wander? > > For the average practitioner I wouldn't think so, though I can activate the UE > with out even a conscious thought. :) Me waking up this morning should be proof enough that the UE is still flowing through my body, but this is not really the same as when we talk about a Reiki session. > > Does it matter or not? > > That would depend on the individual & their level of self training. IMO/IME once > activated UE will do what is intended without further thought. There may be some inertia in the flow, once started it will continue to flow, but I also think that there is some entropy in the flow as well, i.e. if not supported its flow will decay to the average level over some time. If not, why would there be a necessity for repeat treatments? Activate the UE once only and enjoy the benefits forever. > > Is it possible to be there > > completely for the client (100%) while one thinks about last > > nights soccer game or what one is going to cook for dinner? > > IMO, With training, Yes for some, No for most. IMO, it is no in all cases. Taking my model above then certain people can get away with more distractions. The flow of UE to the client may be stronger and/or the decay rate may be less. But then, people who have trained themselves to a higher level of proficiency would also be less prone to distractions. > > As to pressure, I am taking your sentence to mean that the > > client somehow puts pressure on the practitioner. On the > > contrary, it would be the practitioner who exerts pressure > > on himself (unless you conclude that the client is an idiot > > to come such a long way to see you). > > I personally wouldn't think that because I have had a few people come a 'long > way' to see me as a healer even though I don't have a healing practice or claim > to be one. This "coming from a long way" is only an example of somebody saying something startling. They could say something else "I tried to commit suicide last night" will get a different reaction to "I have this dull headache". Or someone comes to you and says "the doctor has given me two weeks to live." I once had a man sitting on front of me talking about the difficulty he had to establish a relationship with his children who were in foster care. It turned out that he spent years in prison because he killed his wife in front of the children. It was amazing to see my mind going into a virtually uncontrollable spin. To hold on to being non-judgmental and compassionate became a struggle. Reasoning along the lines that he paid for his deed was ineffective and farcical. It affected the way we interacted because it impacted on me. I see no reason as to why Reiki sessions would be immune to revelations that startle the practitioner. > > I am further saying that > > this internally generated pressure has an influence on the > > practitioner and that this may well result in a greater > > awareness of himself and what he is doing, even if it may > > not be lasting. > > It is human nature to perform to the level expected. The Ego likes to be > flattered. There is certainly evidence to that, although how the ego is flattered by conforming to an expectation of low performance (e.g. as it sometimes seems to be the case with black students) is beyond me. Maybe it is more a case of any stroke is better than no stroke (Transactional analysis speak for any kind of attention, even if negative, is better than no attention). I would also like to think that Reiki practitioners are more capable than teh average person to separate facts from ego fiction. > > > > As most people walk > > > > around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and > > > > I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of > > > > our time. > > > > > IMO, this last sentence is *scary*. I would like to believe that > > > anyone that claims to be a Reiki healer would give 100% of their > > > ability, 100% of the time. > > > > The difference is that you take "what they are able to give at the > > time" as the benchmark, I take "what is possible". > > IMO, anyone that could do "what is possible" with UE would have achived a god > like state. "What is possible for a human." Even that leaves vast areas of possibilities including those we have "shut down", relegated to myth and thus have become unknown and in a sense unknowable. Let's take Tolstoy's character Ivan Illyich who at the end of his life as a high court judge (thus he was not a stupid man) asks himself: "What if my life, my entire conscious life, was not the real thing?" There is a good argument for the case that our conscious life is in fact not the real thing and there is also experiental evidence from numerous people that the true reality *can be known*, *can be experienced*, *can be apprehended* and not just talked about as is commonly the case. > > Because of > > that you are happy with where you are, and I am aware that > > there are many things in which I could be better, not perfect, > > just a bit better. > > All I ask of myself or anyone else is the best that they are capable of at the > time. I would hope that I and they would get better with practice. I am also looking for ways to push this ahead and part of this is to have ones neat picture of the universe upset, and turned upside down and inside out. To give you an example, the Buddhist Canon is a massive work consisting of hundreds of sutras. Some are just one sentence long while other go on "forever". Some monks study a chosen sutra for years on end, 10 or more, because once you understand one sutra (it does not matter which one), you understand them all, and you understand them all to the same degree. Does this make sense in our normal understanding? Not really, but still, it is true. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:00:01 GMT Lines: 51 Message-ID: <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0tm.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.182) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076820824 42966712 I 207.69.3.182 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0tm.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13744 On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:11:58 -0600, Alex Barna wrote: >pr wrote: >> The difference is that you take "what they are able to give at the >> time" as the benchmark, I take "what is possible". > >IMO, anyone that could do "what is possible" with UE would have achived a god >like state. > >> Because of >> that you are happy with where you are, and I am aware that >> there are many things in which I could be better, not perfect, >> just a bit better. > >All I ask of myself or anyone else is the best that they are capable of at the >time. I would hope that I and they would get better with practice. In the taijiquan school I attend we recite a short little bit of philosophy at the beginning of each class, part of which goes like this: Know yourself. Do your best. Don't overdo it. Make a little progress every day. I don't think this is unreasonable or even mediocre. It recognizes that we start from a position of imperfection, that learning to be good at something requires time and effort, and it provides a reasonable way to approach this learning. It also recognizes that "your best" is something that will change over time, and that there is always room for improvement. Don't judge yourself harshly just because you're not perfect yet, because you never will be perfect, and there will always be room for improvement. The way Peter states it, it makes me feel like I'm just a big Luser with a capital "L" because I'm not up to god-like performance levels. I feel that the "mediocre" label is just a tad harsh, and not helpful for communicating whatever it is that Peter is trying to tell us. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:54:36 +0200 Lines: 114 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-47.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <402f184b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 15 Feb 2004 08:57:15 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-47.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-47.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13746 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET... > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 13:11:58 -0600, Alex Barna > wrote: > > > > >pr wrote: > > >> The difference is that you take "what they are able to give at the > >> time" as the benchmark, I take "what is possible". > > > >IMO, anyone that could do "what is possible" with UE would have achived a god > >like state. > > > >> Because of > >> that you are happy with where you are, and I am aware that > >> there are many things in which I could be better, not perfect, > >> just a bit better. > > > >All I ask of myself or anyone else is the best that they are capable of at the > >time. I would hope that I and they would get better with practice. > > In the taijiquan school I attend we recite a short little bit of > philosophy at the beginning of each class, part of which goes like > this: > > Know yourself. > Do your best. > Don't overdo it. > Make a little progress every day. ~Garry, It looks that there is general agreement that we are not working at 100% level, whatever the 100% are. I am sure that even if we take this to mean the best at the time then there would be plenty of scope to improve, if only .... -I was able to let go of ... -would not be pressed for time -would have better feedback about ... -would feel better ... -etc, etc. As I said before, many of these influencing factors are not chosen deliberately but may be there despite my recognition that they impair my work. But there will also be others where I could make an effort. IOW, I think that even when I think that I am at my best I am far away from it. And with this I don't mean some potential future state but refer to the very moment I have in mind when I think that I am or was at my best. To put it differently one more time, I have no idea what my best is or could be at the time, and so to claim being at my best is rather non-sensical. But - I see another controversy coming on - is the claim that Reiki knows where to go and what to do on its own then not something to sooth my conscience about my less than perfect work? If Reiki knows all that is claimed for it then I don't have to work on myself, improve on what I am presently am, do I? Even if I do, what could it add to the work? > I don't think this is unreasonable or even mediocre. It recognizes > that we start from a position of imperfection, that learning to be > good at something requires time and effort, and it provides a > reasonable way to approach this learning. It also recognizes that > "your best" is something that will change over time, and that there is > always room for improvement. Don't judge yourself harshly just because > you're not perfect yet, because you never will be perfect, and there > will always be room for improvement. The way Peter states it, it makes > me feel like I'm just a big Luser with a capital "L" because I'm not > up to god-like performance levels. I feel that the "mediocre" label is > just a tad harsh, and not helpful for communicating whatever it is > that Peter is trying to tell us. I did not introduce the idea of god-like performance levels. This particular branch of this thread started with me stating: "..... that compared to what is *possible* for a human being, as demonstrated sometimes by specific individuals, .... " At no time did I refer to or even imply anything which lies outside the realm of human potential and possibility. You may not have noticed in a post to Alex, that I am quite amenable to have "mediocre" replaced by other words. Your final sentence above seems to imply that I am not very successful. What do you think is the shortcoming of my communication(s) that does not enable you to understand what I mean? I also wonder whether you see a difference between understanding and agreeing? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:49:54 GMT Lines: 80 Message-ID: <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0u5.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.197) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076852617 40604323 I 207.69.3.197 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0u5.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13747 On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:33:54 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I am just waiting for someone to now break into this thread >disputing that the level of attunement limits what can be >accomplished. I am in two minds about this and keep an >open mind. Up to the present, I have seen no evidence that level of attunement limits what can be accomplished. This does not mean it is not true, but it would be good to see evidence of this theory before making any assumptions, especially when I have seen evidence that it is not true. However, IMO/IME it is other factors that determine our limitations. >There may be some inertia in the flow, once started >it will continue to flow, but I also think that there is >some entropy in the flow as well, i.e. if not supported >its flow will decay to the average level over some time. >If not, why would there be a necessity for repeat >treatments? Activate the UE once only and enjoy >the benefits forever. This certainly sounds reasonable. Is there some way to reconcile Alex's observation with this scenario, or do we need to chuck it and come up with a new theory that accounts for both entropy and Alex's observation? >we interacted because it impacted on me. I see no >reason as to why Reiki sessions would be immune to >revelations that startle the practitioner. And we aren't. This goes back to doing the best we can with what we've got in any given situation or point in time, without worrying about judging ourselves to be mediocre. >There is certainly evidence to that, although how the ego >is flattered by conforming to an expectation of low performance >(e.g. as it sometimes seems to be the case with black students) But not whites, or orientals, or the rest of humanity? Political correctness be damned, but there is no logical reason to allow racism to color your thinking. >is beyond me. Maybe it is more a case of any stroke is better >than no stroke (Transactional analysis speak for any kind of >attention, even if negative, is better than no attention). Yes, now that you bring it up, I remember this from my Psych 101 class way back in the Stone Age. Experience with both people and pets bears this out. >I would also like to think that Reiki practitioners are more >capable than teh average person to separate facts from >ego fiction. Certainly would make a nice fairy tale, but what evidence or reason would you have to believe this? Some people would argue that our mere belief in Reiki is enough to prove us lunatics. :-) But seriously, separating "facts from ego fiction" is not something that is typically taught in a Reiki class, so unless the attunements themselves somehow pass this quality on to us, I would think that it's pretty much up to each invididual's life experience, and thus there are no guarantees. >I am also looking for ways to push this ahead and part >of this is to have ones neat picture of the universe upset, >and turned upside down and inside out. Oooh! So you like it rough? ;-) Seriously, though, yeah, it does us good to be startled out of our complacency every now and then. Teaches us that we aren't quite as clever as we'd like to think, and helps us to stay on our toes. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:03:38 GMT Lines: 48 Message-ID: <402f79c4.3220087@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402f184b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0u5.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.197) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076853440 43219432 I 207.69.3.197 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0u5.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13748 On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:54:36 +0200, "pr" wrote: >To put it differently one more time, I have no idea what my >best is or could be at the time, and so to claim being at my >best is rather non-sensical. I understand what you are saying, but it seems an impractical approach to attempt to judge yourself on a criterion that no one is able to perceive or measure in any way, shape or form. All we can do is judge on the basis of what we are able to perceive. >But - I see another controversy coming on - is the >claim that Reiki knows where to go and what to do >on its own then not something to sooth my conscience >about my less than perfect work? If Reiki knows all >that is claimed for it then I don't have to work on myself, >improve on what I am presently am, do I? Even if I do, >what could it add to the work? Similarly, how do you know that the work that you did with Reiki was less than perfect? You need a practical measurement before you can make useful value judgements. >You may not have noticed in a post to Alex, that I am quite >amenable to have "mediocre" replaced by other words. Works for me. Thanks! :-) >Your final sentence above seems to imply that I am not very >successful. What do you think is the shortcoming of my >communication(s) that does not enable you to understand >what I mean? The "unsuccessful" label was applied only to the choice of the word "mediocre". It was not meant to be extended to the rest of what you were saying. >I also wonder whether you see a difference between >understanding and agreeing? Absolutely there is a difference between understanding and agreeing. Sometimes we don't even understand that we agree, or agree that we understand! Must be our mediocre level of communication. ;-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:41 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076856087 44160748 D 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13749 Interesting, entertaining and well-behaved thread [for a usenet group] .. ;) But I've lost focus on what it was all about ... Peter's obfuscatory style serves to do just that .. ;) Can someone do a bullet-point list of dos and don'ts, shoulds and shouldn'ts please? Stuart (Garry Williams) wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:33:54 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >I am just waiting for someone to now break into this thread > >disputing that the level of attunement limits what can be > >accomplished. I am in two minds about this and keep an > >open mind. ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:05:55 +0000 Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1076861162 11964 194.222.30.223 (15 Feb 2004 16:06:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:06:02 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13750 Garry Williams writes > >>There is certainly evidence to that, although how the ego >>is flattered by conforming to an expectation of low performance >>(e.g. as it sometimes seems to be the case with black students) > > > >But not whites, or orientals, or the rest of humanity? Political >correctness be damned, but there is no logical reason to allow racism >to color your thinking. > > I doubt this is crude racism being expressed by Peter. I believe/hope him to be saying something rather more sophisticated, which is that *attitudes* of racism lead to black students being expected to underachieve as compared to their peers of other ethnic backgrounds. If a student is subjected to stereotyping, chances are they will live up (or rather down) to that stereotype. White students do not enter the educational system with the burden of an assumption that they will only excel in particular areas as has been/is the case with black students who have been "allowed" to become world class sports people & entertainers, but very little else. Not because of any inherent lack of ability in other areas, but because of society's short sightedness and slowness to recognise what happens when talent isn't nurtured properly. Is that it, Peter ? -- Judy ###### From: montane Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:27:39 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-548.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 2.0/32.640 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13751 On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:49:54 GMT, gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote: > Alex Barna wrote: > >>There is certainly evidence to that, although how the ego >>is flattered by conforming to an expectation of low performance >>(e.g. as it sometimes seems to be the case with black students) > > > >But not whites, or orientals, or the rest of humanity? Political >correctness be damned, but there is no logical reason to allow racism >to color your thinking. > > > >>is beyond me. Maybe it is more a case of any stroke is better >>than no stroke (Transactional analysis speak for any kind of >>attention, even if negative, is better than no attention). > >Yes, now that you bring it up, I remember this from my Psych 101 class >way back in the Stone Age. Experience with both people and pets bears >this out. > I thought I'd chime in on one little point. Just an opinion to share, though I realize it isn't in the main line of this interesting discussion. The term "ego" gets confused, I think, because it's used in a number of ways. In psychology, it's definition is somewhat disputed, but in general it means a functional sense of self needed for any sort of interaction with the world except that of an infant or small child. In Eastern spiritual paths, ego (atman) means the *self as experienced* (and is sometimes put into English as "the empirical ego") -- meaning a "self" that here on the physical plane is often, though not necessarily, separated from Universal Reality, God, or all other individual selves (people). But in common parlance, "ego" often means or self-satisfaction or conceit. So when we talk of an ego that wants flattery, I guess we are talking about something along these lines -- but not necessarily along the other two lines, above. Ego in the psychologist's sense incorporates and gets used to certain experiences, and a person who feels "on top of his game" has generally been able to integrate most of his experiences so as to be able to function with reasonable confidence. This may be self-satisfaction but perhaps not conceit. High performance or low performance in a particular area of life may be acceptable to that person, as long as he or she is still able to attain the main things that he or she has deemed important (food, shelter, fitting into one's social circle, owning nice things, etc.) Don't let this splinter the discussion off to some tangent. But maybe it will be useful. montane ###### Message-ID: <402FD7AB.B37FD06E@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 216 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:28:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076876901 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:28:21 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:28:21 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!lightspeed.eweka.nl!213.218.66.70.MISMATCH!feeder.enertel.nl!nntpfeed-01.ops.asmr-01.energis-idc.net!borium.box.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!news3.optonline.net!cyclone.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13752 pr wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > > > What I am saying is that compared to what is *possible* for > > > a human being, as demonstrated sometimes by specific > > > individuals, our whole life, and not just our Reiki practice > > > must surely rank as "mediocre", or you prefer "not the > > > best it could be". > > > > OK!, I agree with this, though I would replace "mediocre" with > > "average" in life, & the teaching that what can be accomplished > > with Reiki is limited by the level of attunement rather than > > there is no limit to what can be accomplished once attuned > > if the practitioner will practice, practice, practice. > > I am just waiting for someone to now break into this thread > disputing that the level of attunement limits what can be > accomplished. I am in two minds about this and keep an > open mind. I am hoping for the same thing. I would like to see a reasoned explanation of why the levels are required & how a person can be called a 'Master' just by being attuned to that level without showing an ability to perform at that level. > > > When giving a Reiki treatment, how often do our thoughts > > > wander to something completely unrelated? > > > > If the practitioner is being paid, I would hope they had trained > > their self to concentrate on their patient. > > Trained yes, but how long does it take meditators to > acquire a still mind? IMO/IME, that level of 'quiet mind' isn't nessessary when directing UE. > Many have difficulty for 10 years > or more years. And we have not resolved the question > of what is the appropriate focus? The patient, or the > flow, or Self (capital S), or feelings, or nothing? IMO, when treating 'one on one' the focus 'should' be first on the client (patient) & what they have said they came to you to be treated for, than any feelings that may arise about the clients condition. The "Self (capital S)" needs to be taught to step back & put the client & their needs first. > > > Are they supposed to wander? > > > > For the average practitioner I wouldn't think so, though I can > > activate the UE with out even a conscious thought. :) > > Me waking up this morning should be proof enough that > the UE is still flowing through my body, but this is not > really the same as when we talk about a Reiki session. No it isn't. :) As I perceive it the UE doesn't actually flow like a fluid does, but changes 'state' (I perceive this as different shades of gold). The 'normal' state of the UE is a 'mellow gold' simular to that seen in jewelery & when activated as when doing a Reiki session it changes to a bright yellow gold. > > > Does it matter or not? > > > > That would depend on the individual & their level of self > > training. IMO/IME once > > activated UE will do what is intended without further thought. > > There may be some inertia in the flow, once started > it will continue to flow, but I also think that there is > some entropy in the flow as well, i.e. if not supported > its flow will decay to the average level over some time. Yes, IMO/IME the UE does return to it's normal state in time, though I haven't worked out a formula to say that UE activated to level X will return to it's normal level in a certain length of time. > If not, why would there be a necessity for repeat > treatments? Activate the UE once only and enjoy > the benefits forever. IMO, *If* a person could activate the UE to a level that would bring about instant healing, 'once' would be enough for that illness/injury & could possibly insure good health for the rest of that clients natural life. > > I personally wouldn't think that because I have had a few people > > come a 'long way' to see me as a healer even though I don't have > > a healing practice or claim to be one. > > This "coming from a long way" is only an example of > somebody saying something startling. They could say > something else "I tried to commit suicide last night" > will get a different reaction to "I have this dull headache". Agreed. > Or someone comes to you and says "the doctor has > given me two weeks to live." My mother said that to me April, 28,1999. June 1999 at my sons wedding she made a point of telling everyone that her doctors were baffled because she had no signs of the cancer one week after telling my about it. Nov., 1999 she said she wanted to be with my father who had died Feb., 1981 & would I let her go. I did & the cancer came back & she died Dec.,24,1999. > I once had a man sitting on front of me talking about > the difficulty he had to establish a relationship with > his children who were in foster care. It turned out > that he spent years in prison because he killed his > wife in front of the children. It was amazing to see my > mind going into a virtually uncontrollable spin. To hold > on to being non-judgmental and compassionate became > a struggle. Reasoning along the lines that he paid for > his deed was ineffective and farcical. It affected the way > we interacted because it impacted on me. I see no > reason as to why Reiki sessions would be immune to > revelations that startle the practitioner. Your example like mine is an extreme situation that IMO the average practitioner wouldn't run into, but yes there will be times that a practitioner can't be unaffected by what a client has said/done. > > It is human nature to perform to the level expected. The Ego > > likes to be flattered. > > There is certainly evidence to that, although how the ego > is flattered by conforming to an expectation of low performance > (e.g. as it sometimes seems to be the case with black students) > is beyond me. Maybe it is more a case of any stroke is better > than no stroke (Transactional analysis speak for any kind of > attention, even if negative, is better than no attention). > I would also like to think that Reiki practitioners are more > capable than teh average person to separate facts from > ego fiction. Perhaps if you told your black students that you expected a higher level of Reiki ability from them because of their spiritual heritage they would perform at a higher level. :) > > > The difference is that you take "what they are able to give at > > > the time" as the benchmark, I take "what is possible". > > > > IMO, anyone that could do "what is possible" with UE would have > > achived a god like state. > > "What is possible for a human." Even that leaves vast areas > of possibilities including those we have "shut down", relegated > to myth and thus have become unknown and in a sense unknowable. I consider many things that society calls 'miraculous' humanly possible. BTDT > Let's take Tolstoy's character Ivan Illyich who at the end > of his life as a high court judge (thus he was not a stupid man) > asks himself: "What if my life, my entire conscious life, was > not the real thing?" IMO, The reality of a persons life is subject to their perception. > There is a good argument for the case that our conscious > life is in fact not the real thing and there is also experiental > evidence from numerous people that the true reality *can be > known*, *can be experienced*, *can be apprehended* and > not just talked about as is commonly the case. This again depends on the individuals perception of what they experienced. As an example, I died & had what I perceived to be the reality of a death experience. Since that time I have read many others perceptions of their death & near death experiences that are totally different than mine. What is true? What is reality? I believe I will know that answer when I die the final time. > > All I ask of myself or anyone else is the best that they are > > capable of at the time. I would hope that I and they would get > > better with practice. > > > I am also looking for ways to push this ahead and part > of this is to have ones neat picture of the universe upset, > and turned upside down and inside out. Isn't that why we are having this discussion? ^_^ > To give you an example, the Buddhist Canon is a massive > work consisting of hundreds of sutras. Some are just one > sentence long while other go on "forever". Some monks > study a chosen sutra for years on end, 10 or more, because > once you understand one sutra (it does not matter which one), > you understand them all, and you understand them all to the > same degree. > Does this make sense in our normal understanding? > Not really, but still, it is true. Interesting. How does a monk show/prove understanding? GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 69 Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:59:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076882347 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:59:07 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:59:07 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13753 Garry Williams wrote: > > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 , Alex Barna wrote: > > >All I ask of myself or anyone else is the best that they are > >capable of at the time. I would hope that I and they would get > >better with practice. > > In the taijiquan school I attend we recite a short little bit of > philosophy at the beginning of each class, part of which goes like > this: > > Know yourself. > Do your best. > Don't overdo it. > Make a little progress every day. > > I don't think this is unreasonable or even mediocre. It recognizes > that we start from a position of imperfection, that learning to be > good at something requires time and effort, and it provides a > reasonable way to approach this learning. It also recognizes that > "your best" is something that will change over time, and that > there is always room for improvement. Don't judge yourself harshly > just because you're not perfect yet, because you never will be > perfect, and there will always be room for improvement. Don't try to tell my cat I'm not perfect. ^..^ There will only "be room for improvement" as long as this body is alive. I will be perfection again when I leave it again. > The way Peter states it, it makes me feel like I'm > just a big Luser with a capital "L" because I'm not > up to god-like performance levels. I set the god-like standard not Peter, because I know what a human is capable of with training & belief that they can achieve that level & that very few people will ever achieve even a small percentage of it. So IMO achiving only 1% or 2% of that God-like level isn't bad. From what I have read Jesus only got to about 10% of what a human could achive. > I feel that the "mediocre" label is just a tad harsh, > and not helpful for communicating whatever it is > that Peter is trying to tell us. It is just a word & words only have the power we give them. ^_^ I haven't had any trouble understanding what 'Peter is trying to tell us'. ^_^ GramPaHugs, Alex, > Love and Light, > > Garry -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:05:03 GMT Lines: 17 Message-ID: <402ff9da.1908725@news.Individual.NET> References: <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3s4.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.132) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076885923 43239728 I 207.69.15.132 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3s4.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13754 On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:41 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: > >Interesting, entertaining and well-behaved thread [for >a usenet group] .. ;) > >But I've lost focus on what it was all about ... Peter's >obfuscatory style serves to do just that .. ;) > >Can someone do a bullet-point list of dos and don'ts, shoulds >and shouldn'ts please? Stu, *do* try to keep up, there's a dear. Oh, and btw, we don't argue for reasons, we just argue. ;-) Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:29:12 GMT Lines: 42 Message-ID: <402ffc26.2496144@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402FD7AB.B37FD06E@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3s4.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.132) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076887373 43920210 I 207.69.15.132 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3s4.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13756 On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:28:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >I am hoping for the same thing. I would like to see a reasoned explanation of >why the levels are required & how a person can be called a 'Master' just by >being attuned to that level without showing an ability to perform at that level. I think we're all pretty much in agreement that the title 'Master' as used in Western Reiki circles is just something to titulate the ego and awe the newbies for marketing purposes. I see 3rd degree (or 3b, or whatever the top is in the system you're working in) as the point where you're really ready to begin learning, rather than as the end point of learning. Everything prior to that is just preparation for your first day in school. Maybe it would be different if we had some sort of educational standard with a curriculum you could sink your teeth into and really work at, but most Westerners learn their Reiki in weekend workshops, and complete the whole thing in 7 or 8 weekends from 1st degree to 3rd. But even those that require lengthy internships don't offer that much more in terms of information or experience, from what I have seen. I have learned far more from experience and from participating here in AHR than I have in any workshop classes. >> Trained yes, but how long does it take meditators to >> acquire a still mind? > >IMO/IME, that level of 'quiet mind' isn't nessessary when directing UE. Don't know whether it is necessary or not, but the 'quiet mind' seems to come natural to me when doing Reiki. When not doing Reiki it's not nearly as easy. Which leads me to ask, does the quiet mind bring the Reiki or does the Reiki bring the quiet mind? Or is the answer, "Yes, have some"? >Yes, IMO/IME the UE does return to it's normal state in time, though I haven't >worked out a formula to say that UE activated to level X will return to it's >normal level in a certain length of time. Pity we don't have a Reiki meter to make observations with so that we could come up with such a formula! Anybody here good with tools? Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 23:39:01 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4030017f.3865864@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3s4.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.132) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076887961 43227946 I 207.69.15.132 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3s4.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13757 On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:59:07 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >Don't try to tell my cat I'm not perfect. ^..^ There will only "be room for >improvement" as long as this body is alive. I will be perfection again when I >leave it again. LOL, I kind of assumed that we were speaking of our current lifetimes. :-) >I set the god-like standard not Peter, because I know what a human is capable of >with training & belief that they can achieve that level & that very few people >will ever achieve even a small percentage of it. So IMO achiving only 1% or 2% >of that God-like level isn't bad. From what I have read Jesus only got to about >10% of what a human could achive. Do tell? Please go on, we're listening... >It is just a word & words only have the power we give them. ^_^ >I haven't had any trouble understanding what 'Peter is trying to tell us'. ^_^ Well, I'm just stoopid, I guess. I always have to read his posts 3 times, and each time through I begin to suspect it means something different than the previous reading. Some day I'll be up to y'all's level. :-) Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:14:25 +0200 Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-213.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4030439e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 16 Feb 2004 06:14:22 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-213.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-213.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13766 "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:yN$7uCAjj5LAVw1V@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > Garry Williams writes > > > >>There is certainly evidence to that, although how the ego > >>is flattered by conforming to an expectation of low performance > >>(e.g. as it sometimes seems to be the case with black students) > > > > > > > >But not whites, or orientals, or the rest of humanity? Political > >correctness be damned, but there is no logical reason to allow racism > >to color your thinking. > > > > > > > I doubt this is crude racism being expressed by Peter. I believe/hope > him to be saying something rather more sophisticated, which is that > *attitudes* of racism lead to black students being expected to > underachieve as compared to their peers of other ethnic backgrounds. If > a student is subjected to stereotyping, chances are they will live up > (or rather down) to that stereotype. White students do not enter the > educational system with the burden of an assumption that they will only > excel in particular areas as has been/is the case with black students > who have been "allowed" to become world class sports people & > entertainers, but very little else. Not because of any inherent lack of > ability in other areas, but because of society's short sightedness and > slowness to recognise what happens when talent isn't nurtured properly. > > Is that it, Peter ? Pretty much. I was really thinking of studies in the USA that examined the phenomena and AFAIK seemed to make black-white comparisons only. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <4030017f.3865864@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 06:41:00 +0200 Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40305cd6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 16 Feb 2004 08:01:58 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13767 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4030017f.3865864@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 21:59:07 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > Well, I'm just stoopid, I guess. I always have to read his posts 3 > times, and each time through I begin to suspect it means something > different than the previous reading. Some day I'll be up to y'all's > level. :-) No, you are not stupid. It just points to the depth of my posts. :) Hey, if nobody strokes your ego, what's wrong with doing it yourself? It may not be very spiritual, but it feels sooooooo good. :) -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:16:26 +0200 Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 16 Feb 2004 08:02:01 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13768 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com... > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 , Alex Barna wrote: > I set the god-like standard not Peter, because I know what a human is capable of > with training & belief that they can achieve that level & that very few people > will ever achieve even a small percentage of it. So IMO achiving only 1% or 2% > of that God-like level isn't bad. From what I have read Jesus only got to about > 10% of what a human could achive. But was he not God himself, albeit in human form? Are yous saying that the form God takes limits His abilities? And if Jesus really was God why could he not achieve 100% of what a human could achieve? Just some idle thoughts. And you better duck as soon as the Christian fundamentalists get hold of your post. :) -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402f184b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402f79c4.3220087@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:22:50 +0200 Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40305cda.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 16 Feb 2004 08:02:02 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13769 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:402f79c4.3220087@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 08:54:36 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >To put it differently one more time, I have no idea what my > >best is or could be at the time, and so to claim being at my > >best is rather non-sensical. > > I understand what you are saying, but it seems an impractical approach > to attempt to judge yourself on a criterion that no one is able to > perceive or measure in any way, shape or form. All we can do is judge > on the basis of what we are able to perceive. I agree and I suggest a better phrase than "I gave x percent" would be "It feel it went well today" or "It did not go well" or "I struggled today", something along that line. This keeps it on the plane of subjective experience rather than the plane of apparently objective scales which really do not exist. > Similarly, how do you know that the work that you did with Reiki was > less than perfect? You need a practical measurement before you can > make useful value judgements. see above > The "unsuccessful" label was applied only to the choice of the word > "mediocre". It was not meant to be extended to the rest of what you > were saying. ok, thanks for clarifying. > >I also wonder whether you see a difference between > >understanding and agreeing? > > Absolutely there is a difference between understanding and agreeing. > Sometimes we don't even understand that we agree, or agree that we > understand! Must be our mediocre level of communication. ;-) Huh? :) -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:41:24 +0200 Lines: 61 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40305cdb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 16 Feb 2004 08:02:03 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!feed1.news.be.easynet.net!nerim.net!proxad.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13770 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 05:33:54 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >There may be some inertia in the flow, once started > >it will continue to flow, but I also think that there is > >some entropy in the flow as well, i.e. if not supported > >its flow will decay to the average level over some time. > >If not, why would there be a necessity for repeat > >treatments? Activate the UE once only and enjoy > >the benefits forever. > > This certainly sounds reasonable. Is there some way to reconcile > Alex's observation with this scenario, or do we need to chuck it and > come up with a new theory that accounts for both entropy and Alex's > observation? How about the UE goes on without decay in strength, but may get fragmented and thus less focused and effective by the clients daily actions? It would then depend on the client how long the effects will last before they become unnoticeable. > >I would also like to think that Reiki practitioners are more > >capable than teh average person to separate facts from > >ego fiction. > > Certainly would make a nice fairy tale, but what evidence or reason > would you have to believe this? Some people would argue that our mere > belief in Reiki is enough to prove us lunatics. :-) But seriously, > separating "facts from ego fiction" is not something that is typically > taught in a Reiki class, so unless the attunements themselves somehow > pass this quality on to us, I would think that it's pretty much up to > each invididual's life experience, and thus there are no guarantees. I would say that it is one of the primary characteristics of any spiritual path. I am assuming that many, if not most, people who get involved in Reiki at any level would have some urge to move along such a path. Only a few weeks ago you posted the full text of the Reiki principles and lamented the fact that they are not used in its entirety. The principles start with: The Secret Method of Inviting Blessings. The spiritual Medicine of Many Illnesses. To my mind, this inherently includes working towards a better separation of true reality and fiction. Not to talk about that may well be a short-coming of many Reiki trainings. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402FD7AB.B37FD06E@mn.rr.com> <402ffc26.2496144@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:46:55 +0200 Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40305cdc.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 16 Feb 2004 08:02:04 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-130.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13771 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:402ffc26.2496144@news.Individual.NET... > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:28:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > Don't know whether it is necessary or not, but the 'quiet mind' seems > to come natural to me when doing Reiki. When not doing Reiki it's not > nearly as easy. Which leads me to ask, does the quiet mind bring the > Reiki or does the Reiki bring the quiet mind? Or is the answer, "Yes, > have some"? Just a short comment. Things arise together and things decay together. > >Yes, IMO/IME the UE does return to it's normal state in time, though I haven't > >worked out a formula to say that UE activated to level X will return to it's > >normal level in a certain length of time. > > Pity we don't have a Reiki meter to make observations with so that we > could come up with such a formula! Anybody here good with tools? Mr. L. R. Hubbard's e-meter, maybe? LOL! -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:55:36 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <4030af1d.1077231@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402f09bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402f732f.1535426@news.Individual.NET> <40305cdb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka38r.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.27) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076932154 43114275 I 207.69.13.27 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka38r.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13773 On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:41:24 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I would say that it is one of the primary characteristics of >any spiritual path. I am assuming that many, if not most, >people who get involved in Reiki at any level would have >some urge to move along such a path. Perhaps, but just don't expect any real guidance from one's teachers, because their motivations may be primarily financial or power based. >Only a few weeks ago you posted the full text of the Reiki >principles and lamented the fact that they are not used >in its entirety. The principles start with: > > The Secret Method of Inviting Blessings. > The spiritual Medicine of Many Illnesses. > >To my mind, this inherently includes working towards a >better separation of true reality and fiction. Not to talk >about that may well be a short-coming of many Reiki trainings. Amen. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:10:59 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: <4030b29b.1971115@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka38r.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.13.27) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076933077 44293996 I 207.69.13.27 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka38r.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13774 On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 07:16:26 +0200, "pr" wrote: >But was he not God himself, albeit in human form? Are yous >saying that the form God takes limits His abilities? And if >Jesus really was God why could he not achieve 100% of >what a human could achieve? > >Just some idle thoughts. And you better duck as soon as >the Christian fundamentalists get hold of your post. :) I will sacrifice myself for Alex's sake and deflect their wrath onto myself: Not only was Jesus God Himself, but so is everyone and everything else. As for why none of us choose to achieve 100%, God only knows. Love and Light, Garry ###### Message-ID: <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:56:48 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076950577 65.30.225.94 (Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:56:17 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 10:56:17 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator4-cogent.newsfeed.com!propagator2-sterling!in.nntp.be!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13777 pr wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > > I set the god-like standard not Peter, because I know what a human is > > capable of with training & belief that they can achieve that level & > > that very few people will ever achieve even a small percentage of it. > > So IMO achiving only 1% or 2% of that God-like level isn't bad. From > > what I have read Jesus only got to about 10% of what a human could > > achive. > > But was he not God himself, albeit in human form? IMO, No more than any other human born of a human mother. > Are you saying that the form God takes limits His abilities? Religions limit Gods abilities by assigning a human male persona to God. > And if Jesus really was God why could he not achieve 100% of > what a human could achieve? IMO, Jesus was no more god than any other other human. He often told the people that were cured that their faith was what cured them not anything he did. He even told his disciples that if they had faith in comparison to a grain of mustard seed that they could move mountains. > Just some idle thoughts. And you better duck as soon as > the Christian fundamentalists get hold of your post. :) Why should I duck? I have already been blacklisted by the Jehovah Witnesses, the Mormon's, the Methodist & a few other religions. GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:55:57 -0800 Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4024e6c7.4675947@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: mc28f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.194) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076972159 45040856 I 208.54.143.194 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!mc28f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13793 Oh, you guys were only on your knees, shoot, I was flat on my face, I don't know the rules of this experience yet. Keep the newby informed... Please.... ;-) gess. "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:Wj7SlPA7EXJAVwjp@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > Garry Williams writes > >Damn, she's good! > > > > > Good God, man ! Get up before people start talking ..... > > ;) > > > -- > Judy ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 23:45 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076975157 45261546 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13795 (Gessner) wrote: > Oh, you guys were only on your knees, shoot, I was flat on my > face, I don't know the rules of this experience yet. Keep > the newby informed... > Please.... ;-) You need to realise that this group's threads can vary from the deeply philosophical to the outright bawdy ... and generally the same people are involved ... except for .... say something bawdy, Peter Zee ... ;) Welcome, gess ... :) And I gess you have a story to tell, but tell it when you feel it's right for you ... many caring folk about here .. Stuart ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:01:22 -0800 Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mc28f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.194) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076976085 44926893 I 208.54.143.194 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!mc28f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13796 Hello everyone, First off Thanks a TON for the great thread. I have enjoyed it fully. A Few Comments with Major 's "As I said before, many of these influencing factors are not chosen deliberately but may be there despite my recognition that they impair my work. But there will also be others where I could make an effort. IOW, I think that even when I think that I am at my best I am far away from it. And with this I don't mean some potential future state but refer to the very moment I have in mind when I think that I am or was at my best. To put it differently one more time, I have no idea what my best is or could be at the time, and so to claim being at my best is rather non-sensical. But - I see another controversy coming on - is the claim that Reiki knows where to go and what to do on its own then not something to sooth my conscience about my less than perfect work? If Reiki knows all that is claimed for it then I don't have to work on myself, improve on what I am presently am, do I? Even if I do, what could it add to the work? ~PR" Ok, two points here. 1. Do you really think your "best" is what you need to "produce" during a healing session to achieve the optimum healing power? I completely disagree with you if you do. Reiki is something we don't understand when it comes to volume, flow, direction etc. To suggest that a healer must be in a certain "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. IMHO.. Again we are dealing with many factors here that may increase the effectiveness, pinpoint the flow of energy, distort the "wave" or "particle" of the energy, etc... ad infinitum. We don't even know what form the energy takes or what causes any type of distortion to that energy. Example.. It might be that a rainy day would produce the optimul environment, and even if the healer is giving 1% that is plenty to heal a torn muscle. Anyway, my point is, giving our best has nothing to do with the obvious state of humanity that proves we only give our best, as we currently know how to measure it, a very small percentage of the time as Peter stated above. 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy meter" as jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? What is a smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache than a massive "jolt" of energy? ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 03:33:21 GMT Lines: 34 Message-ID: <40318adb.1060149@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka1ca.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.5.138) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076988417 45287734 I 207.69.5.138 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka1ca.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13802 On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:01:22 -0800, "Gessner" wrote: >Ok, two points here. > >1. Do you really think your "best" is what you need to "produce" during a >healing session to achieve the optimum healing power? I completely disagree >with you if you do. Reiki is something we don't understand when it comes to >volume, flow, direction etc. To suggest that a healer must be in a certain >"frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. IMHO.. >Again we are dealing with many factors here that may increase the >effectiveness, pinpoint the flow of energy, distort the "wave" or "particle" >of the energy, etc... ad infinitum. We don't even know what form the energy >takes or what causes any type of distortion to that energy. Example.. It >might be that a rainy day would produce the optimul environment, and even if >the healer is giving 1% that is plenty to heal a torn muscle. Anyway, my >point is, giving our best has nothing to do with the obvious state of >humanity that proves we only give our best, as we currently know how to >measure it, a very small percentage of the time as Peter stated above. > >2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy meter" as >jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? What is a >smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache than a massive >"jolt" of energy? Whee golly! Whoever said this guy was a newbie was fibbing! Good points, Gess! So good, in fact, that I have no good answers. Which is a good thing, since it keeps us from resting on our laurels! namaste, Garry ###### Message-ID: <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 110 Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 04:06:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1076990786 65.30.225.94 (Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:06:26 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:06:26 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newshub.sdsu.edu!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13805 Hi Gessner, Gessner wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > First off Thanks a TON for the great thread. I have enjoyed it fully. A > Few Comments with Major 's > > > "As I said before, many of these influencing factors are not > chosen deliberately but may be there despite my recognition > that they impair my work. But there will also be others where > I could make an effort. IOW, I think that even when I think > that I am at my best I am far away from it. And with this I > don't mean some potential future state but refer to the > very moment I have in mind when I think that I am or was > at my best. > To put it differently one more time, I have no idea what my > best is or could be at the time, and so to claim being at my > best is rather non-sensical. > > But - I see another controversy coming on - is the > claim that Reiki knows where to go and what to do > on its own then not something to sooth my conscience > about my less than perfect work? If Reiki knows all > that is claimed for it then I don't have to work on myself, > improve on what I am presently am, do I? Even if I do, > what could it add to the work? > > ~PR" > > Ok, two points here. > > 1. Do you really think your "best" is what you need to "produce" during a > healing session to achieve the optimum healing power? I think if a person is charging for a Reiki treatment, whether alone or included with some other treatment, they owe their client their best the same as would be expected from any paid professional. I can't say if their 'best' is needed to achieve the optimum healing power because there is no way to measure what the optimum healing power is. IMO/IME all that is required is the thought or intent for healing to be done for the UE to become activated to a state conducive to healing. > I completely disagree with you if you do. > Reiki is something we don't understand when it comes to > volume, flow, direction etc. IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't have mass so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > To suggest that a healer must be in a certain > "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. Why not? Reiki is a mental action. If you are mad at the world for some reason I don't believe you would be able to be very effective at directing the energy to heal someone. > IMHO.. Again we are dealing with many factors here that may increase the > effectiveness, pinpoint the flow of energy, distort the "wave" or "particle" > of the energy, etc... ad infinitum. We don't even know what form the energy > takes or what causes any type of distortion to that energy. IMO/IME I do at least I think I do. :) People can relate to the word Universal Energy so that is the word I now use to refer to what I perceive as a Golden Mist that I have been able to see & feel since birth. UE is every thing. It is what everything is made of & it is every where. It doesn't flow or distort it only changes 'state' that I perceive as a change in color. > Example.. It > might be that a rainy day would produce the optimul environment, and even if > the healer is giving 1% that is plenty to heal a torn muscle. Anyway, my > point is, giving our best has nothing to do with the obvious state of > humanity that proves we only give our best, as we currently know how to > measure it, a very small percentage of the time as Peter stated above. If you knew from experience that with a certain level of effort you could help that torn muscle heal in a few days instead of a month or more wouldn't you put forth that effort. Shouldn't you put forth that effort. > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy meter" as > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their technique for optimum effect. > What is a smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache than a > massive "jolt" of energy? The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The "flow" that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using to help change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in healing. GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] PS Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 14:53:40 -0800 Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: mc28f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.194) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076972022 42764016 I 208.54.143.194 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!mc28f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13792 ;-) This is a great dialog. Thanks for the effort. PS. Your right, a tree might do some good. ;-) gess "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:z$gbSFAXjLJAVwGx@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > Judy Rigby writes ... > > ... a lot more than I usually do. > > > And to my utter horror I find it took me 3 hours to do so. Looking at > the volumes some posters produce, I must be a very slow thinker or typer > or both. Whatever, I'm sure it's not healthy for me to spend that > amount of time doing this. > > Maybe I'd be better off sitting under a tree ? > > tee hee > > (or should that be *tree* hee ? ) > -- > Judy ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:03:42 +0200 Lines: 43 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 17 Feb 2004 20:34:24 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13821 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > Hi Gessner, > > Gessner wrote: > > 1. Do you really think your "best" is what you need to "produce" during a > > healing session to achieve the optimum healing power? > > I think if a person is charging for a Reiki treatment, whether alone or included > with some other treatment, they owe their client their best the same as would be > expected from any paid professional. Yes. > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't have mass > so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". See new thread. > > To suggest that a healer must be in a certain > > "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. > > Why not? Reiki is a mental action. If you are mad at the world for some reason I > don't believe you would be able to be very effective at directing the energy to > heal someone. IMO a Reiki practitioner should *always* be in certain frame of mind. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:42:24 +0200 Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40326096.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 17 Feb 2004 20:42:30 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator4-cogent.newsfeed.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeeds.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-231.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13823 "pr" wrote in message news:40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > See new thread. Sorry I messed if up. It is just newly titled. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4032BC79.5BEC993A@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402c456c.1578014@news.Individual.NET> <402c64bb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 113 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 01:15:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1077066948 24.71.223.147 (Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:15:48 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2004 18:15:48 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13833 Yikes! Ahem. If nominated I will not stand. If elected I will not serve. Exit, stage right! Rich pr wrote: > > "Garry Williams" wrote in message > news:402c456c.1578014@news.Individual.NET... > > On Thu, 12 Feb 2004 21:19:10 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > > > > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message > > >news:4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET... > > >> Peter, how does the old line go? "It's not what you say, it's how you > > >> say it." Judy's laundry list may sound cold to you (didn't to me, but > > >> then, I'm just weird, perhaps? :-) ), > > > > > >You mean weird such as not noticing such things? > > > > Ah, Peter, Peter. There are 6 billion people on this planet. Must > > every last one of them agree with you? If they do not, is that proof > > that they are wrong and you are right? > > Oh, my, I guess I should have added a smiley at the end. > > > >>but maybe that is because she > > >> was simply listing thoughts quickly for the purpose of explaining to > > >> you, a fellow practitioner, > > > > > >Why would a fellow practitioner need to have these things explained? > > > > In that case, I must ask why you were conversing with her on the > > subject at all? > > It started with trees as a healing presence where I asked what is > it which makes that possible so that it can become an experience > that can be passed on. I then stated that we need to take > responsibility for a result whereupon it became all very legalistic. > I find it interesting that with regards to my voiced concerns we have > not moved at all. There was a thread "I Have changed my mind" > listing a few things were I have shifted. It had one response from you, > but not about what has changed for you, but trying to coax more > information (data) from me. > This "sterility" of discussion seems to be a pattern. Very little new > or challenging is injected, with the exception of Rich who is IMO > (better add that) one of the very few (and presently the only one > coming to mind) who is prepared and probably able to see below > the surface. > > > >> As for people who come to you as a last resort, from thousands of > > >> miles away, what, exactly, do you plan on promising them that you > > >> don't promise to your other clients? Other than being on your best, > > >> most sensitive and compassionate behavior, what more can you do for > > >> them than you can do for anyone else you work with? > > > > > >These are the wrong question. Lets assume that somebody > > >comes to you and you realize that they have travelled thousands > > >of miles. I bet it will focus your mind pretty well. Either you will > > >think that he is an idiot or that you better be GOOD at what you > > >are doing, unlike the pretty "mediocre" stuff we all deliver at normal > > >times. > > > > I find it difficult to believe that someone would travel 1000's of > > miles to seek me out since I have not established a reputation as a > > miracle worker. However, just for the sake of argument, if they had, I > > would gently explain that I am not a miracle worker, I am a Reiki > > practitioner (insert lengthy explanation of what that is for client's > > sake) but that I will gladly avail them of my services should they > > choose to accept them, or refer them to someone else if they like. > > You see, another escape. I asked you to assume, to imagine, > something children still find easy to do. You give me a reason > why that would not happen and go on with an proposed course > of action which to me sounds again very technical. > > > What's so difficult and unusual about being honest and direct? > > I am afraid that is the wrong question again. It does not help the > client to be direct. It does not help him for you to be honest > because he already knows what you tell him, he knew that > before he had eft, and still he has come to you. What are you > telling him which he does not know? > > > >Someone made a comment recently as to why Reiki practitioners > > >should/would be different to ordinary people. The writer seemed to > > >imply that his answer would be "nothing". As most people walk > > >around in a fog of unawareness this sounds pretty scary and > > >I doubt that we do our best for more than 1 or 2 percent of our > > >time. > > > > Reiki practitioners *are* ordinary people. We have chosen a different > > path than those who did not choose Reiki for various reasons, those > > reasons varying from one individual to the next. Some have made some > > spiritual progress because of the art, and some have made not so much > > progress. I imagine the same can be said about nearly any spiritually > > oriented group of people you care to name. So why do you find it scary > > to know that we are what we are? > > Because there does not seem to be a spirit of curiosity, > exploration and investigation. Ideas seem to be set solid. > Certain things are accepted or "acceptable" and other > are not or less so. Prisoners of our chosen path, but > prisoners nonetheless. > You do noy dispute that we are at best for an extremely > limited period of our waking time and it looks to me > that this is quite acceptable for you, because we are > (only) ordinary people. > Anybody who does not find that scary must be out of > their mind. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:39:56 -0800 Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: m228f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.34) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077126005 46813976 I 208.54.143.34 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!m228f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13850 Stu.. A story to tell.. Me? Well what kind of story are you waiting to hear. About my life? About my spiritual beliefs? About the crazy Garrrry? Cheers. Gess (Gessner is my middle name that I go by professionally) "Stuart Vernon" wrote in message news:memo.20040216234556.2068F@stuv.compulink.co.uk... > (Gessner) wrote: > > > Oh, you guys were only on your knees, shoot, I was flat on my > > face, I don't know the rules of this experience yet. Keep > > the newby informed... > > Please.... ;-) > > > > You need to realise that this group's threads can vary from the > deeply philosophical to the outright bawdy ... and generally the > same people are involved ... except for .... say something bawdy, > Peter Zee ... ;) > > Welcome, gess ... :) > > And I gess you have a story to tell, but tell it when you feel > it's right for you ... many caring folk about here .. > > Stuart > ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:05:59 -0800 Lines: 182 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: m228f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.34) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077127561 46465971 I 208.54.143.34 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!m228f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13851 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > Hi Gessner, > > Gessner wrote: > > > > Hello everyone, > > > > First off Thanks a TON for the great thread. I have enjoyed it fully. A > > Few Comments with Major 's > > > > > > "As I said before, many of these influencing factors are not > > chosen deliberately but may be there despite my recognition > > that they impair my work. But there will also be others where > > I could make an effort. IOW, I think that even when I think > > that I am at my best I am far away from it. And with this I > > don't mean some potential future state but refer to the > > very moment I have in mind when I think that I am or was > > at my best. > > To put it differently one more time, I have no idea what my > > best is or could be at the time, and so to claim being at my > > best is rather non-sensical. > > > > But - I see another controversy coming on - is the > > claim that Reiki knows where to go and what to do > > on its own then not something to sooth my conscience > > about my less than perfect work? If Reiki knows all > > that is claimed for it then I don't have to work on myself, > > improve on what I am presently am, do I? Even if I do, > > what could it add to the work? > > > > ~PR" > > > > Ok, two points here. > > > > 1. Do you really think your "best" is what you need to "produce" during a > > healing session to achieve the optimum healing power? > > I think if a person is charging for a Reiki treatment, whether alone or included > with some other treatment, they owe their client their best the same as would be > expected from any paid professional. > I can't say if their 'best' is needed to achieve the optimum healing power > because there is no way to measure what the optimum healing power is. > IMO/IME all that is required is the thought or intent for healing to be done for > the UE to become activated to a state conducive to healing. > > > I completely disagree with you if you do. > > Reiki is something we don't understand when it comes to > > volume, flow, direction etc. > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't have mass > so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > OK. Interesting opinion, I will have to think/study on this idea for awhile. > > To suggest that a healer must be in a certain > > "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. > > Why not? Reiki is a mental action. If you are mad at the world for some reason I > don't believe you would be able to be very effective at directing the energy to > heal someone. I disagree. If a healer is "mad at the world" that means what to his energy flow? Possibly nothing, and again there are some major assumptions within this school of thought. First off, you are assuming that a "meditative state" is what makes the Reiki flow in the correct "fashion". Why do you assume that? Experience has told me that a meditative state helps the situation, but how do we know. Let me shed a different light on this analysis. I have heard that a Christian should "pray without ceasing". I believe that applies to us, as reiki practicioners. Why should an angry state of mind "disconnect" or limit our reiki flow? It shouldn't. Does this mean it is something that needs to be practiced to become good at? Maybe. One last point. My best personal healing session (applying reiki to myself) was when I was extremely aggrivated and hurt emotionally. So, to say my state of mind was in a good place was laughable. All I know, is the flow of energy I felt was unbelievable, and unsurpassed IME up to that point. > > > IMHO.. Again we are dealing with many factors here that may increase the > > effectiveness, pinpoint the flow of energy, distort the "wave" or "particle" > > of the energy, etc... ad infinitum. We don't even know what form the energy > > takes or what causes any type of distortion to that energy. > > IMO/IME I do at least I think I do. :) People can relate to the word Universal > Energy so that is the word I now use to refer to what I perceive as a Golden > Mist that I have been able to see & feel since birth. UE is every thing. It is > what everything is made of & it is every where. It doesn't flow or distort it > only changes 'state' that I perceive as a change in color. > > > Example.. It > > might be that a rainy day would produce the optimul environment, and even if > > the healer is giving 1% that is plenty to heal a torn muscle. Anyway, my > > point is, giving our best has nothing to do with the obvious state of > > humanity that proves we only give our best, as we currently know how to > > measure it, a very small percentage of the time as Peter stated above. > > If you knew from experience that with a certain level of effort you could help > that torn muscle heal in a few days instead of a month or more wouldn't you put > forth that effort. Shouldn't you put forth that effort. Again, the assumption is being made that we know what is going on with Reiki, the fact is we don't. If you believe what I think is a common belief among Reiki practicioners that "UE is not time specific, and is not "place" specific" then you are assuming that what you are doing at the point of your action of healing is actually taking effect then, and that your "effort" is actually making a possitive difference. Of course I am being the devil's advocate here, but I think it needs to be discussed. How do we "catagorically" define what we do in a time/space mannor. If we cannot define it, what good are we truly doing? > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy meter" as > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their technique > for optimum effect. > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you are measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. > > What is a smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache than a > > massive "jolt" of energy? > > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The "flow" > that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using to help > change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in healing. Hmm. Interesting thought. See Asterisk'd Comment above. I think it applys to this comment as well. Forever, Gessner > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 10:17:22 -0800 Lines: 55 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: m228f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.34) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077128245 46709346 I 208.54.143.34 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!m228f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13853 "pr" wrote in message news:40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > > Hi Gessner, > > > > Gessner wrote: > > > > 1. Do you really think your "best" is what you need to "produce" during > a > > > healing session to achieve the optimum healing power? > > > > I think if a person is charging for a Reiki treatment, whether alone or > included > > with some other treatment, they owe their client their best the same as > would be > > expected from any paid professional. > > Yes. Ok, but we have not yet defined a state of mind of "Best" or even "Good Enough" as its supposed connection to the effectiveness of Reiki. Whose to say that my worst won't help better than my best? > > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't > have mass > > so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > > See new thread. > > > > To suggest that a healer must be in a certain > > > "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. > > > > Why not? Reiki is a mental action. If you are mad at the world for some > reason I > > don't believe you would be able to be very effective at directing the > energy to > > heal someone. > > IMO a Reiki practitioner should *always* be in certain frame of mind. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > ###### Message-ID: <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 122 Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 21:07:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077138476 65.30.225.94 (Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:07:56 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 15:07:56 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.multikabel.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!news3.optonline.net!cyclone.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13859 Gessner wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't > > have mass so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > > OK. Interesting opinion, I will have to think/study on this idea for > awhile. Keep in mind that what I have said is contrary to the basic idea of the practice of Reiki. > > > To suggest that a healer must be in a certain > > > "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. > > > > Why not? Reiki is a mental action. If you are mad at the world for some > > reason I don't believe you would be able to be very effective at > > directing the energy to heal someone. > > I disagree. If a healer is "mad at the world" that means what to his energy > flow? Possibly nothing, and again there are some major assumptions within > this school of thought. First off, you are assuming that a "meditative > state" is what makes the Reiki flow in the correct "fashion". Why do you > assume that? That isn't what I said. What I said is " IMO/IME all that is required is the thought or intent for healing to be done for the UE to become activated to a state conducive to healing." > Experience has told me that a meditative state helps the > situation, but how do we know. > > Let me shed a different light on this analysis. I have heard that a > Christian should "pray without ceasing". I believe that is a Muslim commandment. IMO, Most christians only pray on sunday or if they want gods help. > I believe that applies to us, as > reiki practicioners. Why should an angry state of mind "disconnect" or > limit our reiki flow? I didn't say it would. Read what I said, not what you think I said. :) > It shouldn't. Does this mean it is something that > needs to be practiced to become good at? Maybe. > > One last point. My best personal healing session (applying reiki to myself) > was when I was extremely aggrivated and hurt emotionally. So, to say my > state of mind was in a good place was laughable. All I know, is the flow of > energy I felt was unbelievable, and unsurpassed IME up to that point. You were applying that healing energy to yourself. Could you have applied it to who or what ever caused that hurt & ignored your personal pain?? > > If you knew from experience that with a certain level of effort you could > > help that torn muscle heal in a few days instead of a month or more > > wouldn't you put forth that effort. Shouldn't you put forth that effort. > > Again, the assumption is being made that we know what is going on with > Reiki, the fact is we don't. If you believe what I think is a common belief > among Reiki practicioners that "UE is not time specific, and is not "place" > specific" then you are assuming that what you are doing at the point of your > action of healing is actually taking effect then, and that your "effort" is > actually making a possitive difference. Of course I am being the devil's > advocate here, but I think it needs to be discussed. How do we > "catagorically" define what we do in a time/space mannor. If we cannot > define it, what good are we truly doing? The key word here is *Experience*. If you experience a particular action having a specific result every time you do it, I don't think you need to assume that what happened actually happened. That is also called *Learning*. > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy > meter" as > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? > > > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their > > technique for optimum effect. > > > > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you are > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. *Experience* > > > What is a smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache > > > than a massive "jolt" of energy? > > > > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The > "flow" > > that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using to help > > change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in healing. > > Hmm. Interesting thought. See Asterisk'd Comment above. I think it applys > to this comment as well. Same answer as above. *Experience* GramPaHugs, Alex, > Forever, > Gessner -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 01:04:23 GMT Lines: 8 Message-ID: <40340b08.2398297@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0ph.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.49) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077152271 46891516 I 207.69.3.49 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0ph.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13866 Just a reminder to all concerned that it can be tricky sometimes discerning who said what when the quotes get 4 and 5 deep. This is not directed at anyone in particular. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:16:30 -0800 Lines: 193 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63-228-96-132.tukw.qwest.net (63.228.96.132) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077171794 47363158 I 63.228.96.132 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!63-228-96-132.tukw.qwest.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13873 Just for the future.. I will premise all of my replies with a triple asterisk. "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com... > Gessner wrote: > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com... > > > > IMO/IME Reiki is a method of activating Universal Energy which doesn't > > > have mass so doesn't have "volume, flow, direction etc". > > > > OK. Interesting opinion, I will have to think/study on this idea for > > awhile. > > Keep in mind that what I have said is contrary to the basic idea of the practice > of Reiki. *** Hmm. Ok thanks for the disclaimer > > > > > To suggest that a healer must be in a certain > > > > "frame of mind" to be completely effective doesn't make sense to me. > > > > > > Why not? Reiki is a mental action. If you are mad at the world for some > > > reason I don't believe you would be able to be very effective at > > > directing the energy to heal someone. > > > > I disagree. If a healer is "mad at the world" that means what to his energy > > flow? Possibly nothing, and again there are some major assumptions within > > this school of thought. First off, you are assuming that a "meditative > > state" is what makes the Reiki flow in the correct "fashion". Why do you > > assume that? > > That isn't what I said. What I said is " IMO/IME all that is required is the > thought or intent for healing to be done for the UE to become activated to a > state conducive to healing." *** Ok, I appologize for the misunderstanding, however.... I don't know if a thought or intent is even necessary. What are your thoughts on that? > > > Experience has told me that a meditative state helps the > > situation, but how do we know. > > > > Let me shed a different light on this analysis. I have heard that a > > Christian should "pray without ceasing". > > I believe that is a Muslim commandment. IMO, Most christians only pray on sunday > or if they want gods help. *** Actually it is a Christian "statement" as well. 1 Thessalonians 5:17 Not sure, it might be a Muslim commandment as well. I am sure you are correct in many circles of Christianity that they have a "Godly on Sunday's" understanding. However, I have a slightly different belief, but then again, I am not your average Christian, if you can even call me that. :-) > > > I believe that applies to us, as > > reiki practicioners. Why should an angry state of mind "disconnect" or > > limit our reiki flow? > > I didn't say it would. Read what I said, not what you think I said. :) *** I didn't say you said it would. :-) Just asking your opinion on the question, you know like how the old philosophers used to debate. "Only answer a question with a question." I am not saying I disagree with you. > > > It shouldn't. Does this mean it is something that > > needs to be practiced to become good at? Maybe. > > > > One last point. My best personal healing session (applying reiki to myself) > > was when I was extremely aggrivated and hurt emotionally. So, to say my > > state of mind was in a good place was laughable. All I know, is the flow of > > energy I felt was unbelievable, and unsurpassed IME up to that point. > > You were applying that healing energy to yourself. Could you have applied it to > who or what ever caused that hurt & ignored your personal pain?? *** Not too sure, good question. > > > > > If you knew from experience that with a certain level of effort you could > > > help that torn muscle heal in a few days instead of a month or more > > > wouldn't you put forth that effort. Shouldn't you put forth that effort. > > > > Again, the assumption is being made that we know what is going on with > > Reiki, the fact is we don't. If you believe what I think is a common belief > > among Reiki practicioners that "UE is not time specific, and is not "place" > > specific" then you are assuming that what you are doing at the point of your > > action of healing is actually taking effect then, and that your "effort" is > > actually making a possitive difference. Of course I am being the devil's > > advocate here, but I think it needs to be discussed. How do we > > "catagorically" define what we do in a time/space mannor. If we cannot > > define it, what good are we truly doing? > > The key word here is *Experience*. If you experience a particular action having > a specific result every time you do it, I don't think you need to assume that > what happened actually happened. That is also called *Learning*. ***Hmm. Ok. I am having a hard time not using the methods I apply to scientific hypotheses in the application of Reiki. I am not suggesting that how you "prove" a hypothesis scientifically is not by repeating the same result, rather I am suggesting it is hard for me to grasp these Reiki concepts without understanding the reasons why this stuff works. I just know it works. > > > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy > > meter" as > > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? > > > > > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their > > > technique for optimum effect. > > > > > > > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you are > > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. > > *Experience* *** Experience can be measurable? Interesting statement... I will have to think about that too. > > > > > What is a smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache > > > > than a massive "jolt" of energy? > > > > > > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME The > > "flow" > > > that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are using to help > > > change the state of the UE to a more active state to assist in healing. > > > > Hmm. Interesting thought. See Asterisk'd Comment above. I think it applys > > to this comment as well. > > Same answer as above. *Experience* > *** Thanks Alex. Gess > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > Forever, > > Gessner > > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 11:30:39 GMT Lines: 35 Message-ID: <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka32b.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.75) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077189847 46955922 I 207.69.12.75 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka32b.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13878 On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:16:30 -0800, "Gessner" wrote: >> > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy >> > meter" as >> > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? >> > > >> > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their >> > > technique for optimum effect. >> > > >> > >> > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you are >> > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. >> >> *Experience* > >*** Experience can be measurable? Interesting statement... I will have to >think about that too. Let's not make this any more difficult than it really is. If you have a meter that measures something that you're doing when you're giving a healing session, and it gives different readings that seem to depend on what you are doing, and there is a strong correlation between certain actions and certain readings, and you also keep track of how the "patient" responds with relation to the readings, then you will eventually figure out through observation which readings give the best results, and since you kept track of what you did to get those readings, you have, via means of your meter, learned what to do to get the best results. The shorthand term for this longwinded paragraph is "experience". :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:31:21 +0200 Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-170.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4034f34c.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 19 Feb 2004 19:33:00 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-170.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-170.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13884 "Gessner" wrote in message news:c10a7k$1chej2$1@ID-224928.news.uni-berlin.de... > Ok, but we have not yet defined a state of mind of "Best" or even "Good > Enough" as its supposed connection to the effectiveness of Reiki. Whose to > say that my worst won't help better than my best? "Best" is a state of "no thought" and I would ones worst, an intense pre-occupation with yourself, will be of no use in making Reiki more effective. The client will say "you seem distracted", "you do not pay proper attention to me and my problem", "you are not interested in me, nor in helping me" and will walk away. Now, do you still want to maintain that your worst may produce results equal to your best? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### Message-ID: <40351054.677F8377@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 143 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:36:52 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077219393 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:36:33 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:36:33 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!62.253.162.225.MISMATCH!newspeer1-win.server.ntli.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13887 Gessner wrote: > > Just for the future.. I will premise all of my replies with a triple > asterisk. Most news readers add one > each time a reply is made. so if like in this message a line has > > > that means it is a reply to a reply to a reply. That is why I usually try to snip out parts that are no longer relevant. > > > I disagree. If a healer is "mad at the world" that means what to > > > his energy flow? Possibly nothing, and again there are some major > > > assumptions within this school of thought. First off, you are > > > assuming that a "meditative state" is what makes the Reiki flow in > > > the correct "fashion". Why do you assume that? > > > > That isn't what I said. What I said is " IMO/IME all that is required > > is the thought or intent for healing to be done for the UE to become > > activated to a state conducive to healing." > > *** Ok, I appologize for the misunderstanding, That's OK, This thread is getting long & hard to follow. > however.... I don't know > if a thought or intent is even necessary. What are your thoughts on > that? It doesn't even need to be a conscious thought. All that is needed is the intent to heal/help. I have seen the UE activated by people that had no idea they were doing it. I *see* Reiki & the related practices as a method of fine tuning what most caring people do & don't even know they are doing. > > > Experience has told me that a meditative state helps the > > > situation, but how do we know. > > > > > > Let me shed a different light on this analysis. I have heard that > > > a Christian should "pray without ceasing". > > > > I believe that is a Muslim commandment. IMO, Most christians only > > pray on sunday or if they want gods help. > > *** Actually it is a Christian "statement" as well. 1 Thessalonians > 5:17 Not sure, it might be a Muslim commandment as well. I am sure you > are correct in many circles of Christianity that they have a "Godly on > Sunday's" understanding. However, I have a slightly different belief, > but then again, I am not your average Christian, if you can even call > me that. :-) I was raised a Catholic but am more of a non Christian Gnostic because of my experiences. ^_^ > > > > > I believe that applies to us, as reiki practicioners. > > > Why should an angry state of mind "disconnect" or limit our reiki flow? > > > > I didn't say it would. Read what I said, not what you think I said. :) > > *** I didn't say you said it would. :-) Just asking your opinion on the > question, you know like how the old philosophers used to debate. "Only > answer a question with a question." I am not saying I disagree with > you. OK! Now I need to apologize for reading something into your question that you didn't say. ^_^ To answer your question "Why should an angry state of mind "disconnect" or limit our reiki flow?" IME it wouldn't do either. What an "angry state of mind" would do is change the UE to a non healing state that couldn't be called Reiki. > > The key word here is *Experience*. If you experience a particular action > > having a specific result every time you do it, I don't think you need to > > assume that what happened actually happened. That is also called *Learning*. > > ***Hmm. Ok. I am having a hard time not using the methods I apply to > scientific hypotheses in the application of Reiki. I am not suggesting that > how you "prove" a hypothesis scientifically is not by repeating the same > result, rather I am suggesting it is hard for me to grasp these Reiki > concepts without understanding the reasons why this stuff works. I just > know it works. Ok, what scientific hypotheses would you use to demonstrate how the devices we are using to communicate work? As I have said before, if it helps think of UE as being like, but not the same as electricity. No one can prove what electricity is but we make use of it daily. > > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy > > > meter" as > > > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? > > > > > > > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their > > > > technique for optimum effect. > > > > > > > > > > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you are > > > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. > > > > *Experience* > > *** Experience can be measurable? Interesting statement... I will have to > think about that too. My interpreter Garry gave a good example/answer of this in another post. ^_^ > > > > > What is a smaller "flow" of energy was more effective for a headache > > > > > than a massive "jolt" of energy? > > > > > > > > The body heals itself with the help of the state of the UE. IMO/IME > > > > The "flow" that many practitioners feel is bio-electric energy they are > > > > using to help change the state of the UE to a more active state to > > > > assist in healing. > > > Hmm. Interesting thought. See Asterisk'd Comment above. I think it > > > applys to this comment as well. > > > > Same answer as above. *Experience* > > > > *** Thanks Alex. > > Gess GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. No endorsement is implied or intended. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 12:55:09 -0800 Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <40325eb0.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4034f34c.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: m018f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.1) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077236437 48520350 I 208.54.143.1 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!m018f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13901 *** Sure I do. :-) I am not saying that the experience to the "client" would be the best, but who knows if the reiki or UE that is being delivered isn't in its most potent form. I agree, this is a fairly non-sensical debate. So I will bow out. gess. "pr" wrote in message news:4034f34c.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > > "Gessner" wrote in message > news:c10a7k$1chej2$1@ID-224928.news.uni-berlin.de... > > > Ok, but we have not yet defined a state of mind of "Best" or even "Good > > Enough" as its supposed connection to the effectiveness of Reiki. Whose > to > > say that my worst won't help better than my best? > > "Best" is a state of "no thought" and I would ones worst, an intense > pre-occupation with yourself, will be of no use in making Reiki > more effective. The client will say "you seem distracted", "you do > not pay proper attention to me and my problem", "you are not > interested in me, nor in helping me" and will walk away. Now, > do you still want to maintain that your worst may produce results > equal to your best? > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > ###### From: "Gessner" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:07:19 -0800 Lines: 64 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: m018f36d0.tmodns.net (208.54.143.1) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077236440 48520350 I 208.54.143.1 ([224928]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!m018f36d0.tmodns.NET!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13902 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET... > On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:16:30 -0800, "Gessner" > wrote: > > >> > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki energy > >> > meter" as > >> > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? > >> > > > >> > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop their > >> > > technique for optimum effect. > >> > > > >> > > >> > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you are > >> > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. > >> > >> *Experience* > > > >*** Experience can be measurable? Interesting statement... I will have to > >think about that too. > > Let's not make this any more difficult than it really is. If you have > a meter that measures something that you're doing when you're giving a > healing session, and it gives different readings that seem to depend > on what you are doing, and there is a strong correlation between > certain actions and certain readings, and you also keep track of how > the "patient" responds with relation to the readings, then you will > eventually figure out through observation which readings give the best > results, and since you kept track of what you did to get those > readings, you have, via means of your meter, learned what to do to get > the best results. The shorthand term for this longwinded paragraph is > "experience". :-) *** Ok, I will leave this one alone after one comment on why I still believe there are gaps in this analysis. ---- Say you have a guy with a broken leg. The last 3 times you have helped people with broken legs by hitting a #6 on the Reiki-o-meter. What both of you are suggesting is that this time you would try to hit a #6 again because "experience" tells you to do so. I have a problem with that for the following reason: First off Reiki IMO is not something that we can know how to "handle" it "handles" us. I am suggesting that maybe this broken leg needs to have 2 tendons healed before it will ever heal, and the energy knows that, we don't, so the energy will hit a #1.5 on the reiki-o-meter because that is the optimal level (or whatever you want to call it) is best for healing this EXACT problem. I have issues with me (as a healer) saying they know how to morph, and skew the energy to make it most effective. Unless the healer knows everything going on around them (see discussion where I talk about the possibility that the natural environment such as a rainy day might make reiki more effective) and the healer knows exactly the problem in all its facets. I don't see UE, or Reiki energy moldable clay, I see the healer as a delivery devise for the Reiki to do its magical thing. Pheww. I am exhausted. :-) > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### Message-ID: <4035692F.F8EF4082@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402041331.1568ab57@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 100 Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:55:59 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077242137 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:55:37 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 19:55:37 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13909 Gessner wrote: > > Let's not make this any more difficult than it really is. If you have > a meter that measures something that you're doing when you're giving a > healing session, and it gives different readings that seem to depend > on what you are doing, and there is a strong correlation between > certain actions and certain readings, and you also keep track of how > the "patient" responds with relation to the readings, then you will > eventually figure out through observation which readings give the best > results, and since you kept track of what you did to get those > readings, you have, via means of your meter, learned what to do to get > the best results. The shorthand term for this longwinded paragraph is > "experience". :-) > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > *** Ok, I will leave this one alone after one comment on why I still believe > there are gaps in this analysis. The gaps are there because everyone is different & every client should be treated differently according to their requirements. > ---- Say you have a guy with a broken leg. > The last 3 times you have helped people with broken legs by hitting a #6 on > the Reiki-o-meter. What both of you are suggesting is that this time you > would try to hit a #6 again because "experience" tells you to do so. I have > a problem with that for the following reason: First off Reiki IMO is not > something that we can know how to "handle" it "handles" us. IME Reiki/UE isn't handled by us or does it handle us. It is either a force or energy or neither or something we don't have a name for yet, that can be used to direct the cells in our bodies to return to their natural healthy condition. > I am suggesting > that maybe this broken leg needs to have 2 tendons healed before it will > ever heal, and the energy knows that, we don't, The UE doesn't know anything, the body does. All the UE does is help the body heal to a condition as close as possible to the basic genetic program. > so the energy will hit a > #1.5 on the reiki-o-meter because that is the optimal level (or whatever you > want to call it) is best for healing this EXACT problem. I have issues with > me (as a healer) saying they know how to morph, and skew the energy to make > it most effective. Than don't think that you do anything to the energy to make it most effective because that isn't what Reiki does. All Reiki & the related energy healing arts are doing is giving the energy purpose. If you could *see* or perceive the energy you would *see* that it is everywhere & in & the most basic part of everything but it is generally inert, it is just there & doesn't do anything unless directed to do something. > Unless the healer knows everything going on around them > (see discussion where I talk about the possibility that the natural > environment such as a rainy day might make reiki more effective) and the > healer knows exactly the problem in all its facets. I don't see UE, or Reiki > energy moldable clay, I see the healer as a delivery devise for the Reiki to > do its magical thing. Pheww. I am exhausted. :-) You are correct UE isn't anything like a moldable clay Nor is it magical. Using that broken leg as an example. If the person is 'normal' that leg will heal in time. Their bodies immune system will direct the cells to go through the healing process as it is programed to do. Now lets say that person with the broken leg goes to a Reiki practitioner. That Reiki practitioner applies Reiki to the leg with the *Intent* that the bone will knit & the leg will heal. As I *see* it the UE becomes brighter (more active) & excites the cells in the bone to do their thing faster. All the UE is doing is assisting the body to heal better & faster. No magic involved at all. :) Try something for the exhaustion. Imagine Reiki/UE is in every cell in your body. Now imagine that Reiki/UE is becoming more active & it is telling your brain & muscle cells to process more energy. Feel the energy coursing through your body. Now get up from the computer, move around & go drink a big glass of water. Then come back to the computer & get back in the discussion. ^_^ GramPaHugs, Alex, > > -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <403569B2.E29DFAAF@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 91 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:59:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1077242371 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:59:31 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:59:31 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13910 I've been watching this discussion with interest, wondering if you had the technology. I was going to suggest you somehow hook it up to Virtual Reality and you could 'see' the energy rays in motion! cheers Rich Garry Williams wrote: > > LOL! Actually, Gessner, I quite suspect you are correct. However, > without the Reiki-o-meter we have no way of knowing. With the meter we > would discover that "victim" number 4 blows our theories out of the > water, and we would have to modify them to account for this. Your > scenario is one possible way to account for the new data. The more > victims we correlated, the more variation we would find, I suspect, > but maybe after a while we would begin to recognize when we should > predict one setting, and when we should predict another. That would be > the scientific, analytical approach. Which may, just may, end up > showing that we do better without depending on the device. > > But without the Reiki-o-meter we'll just never have the chance to find > out one way or the other, will we? > > Garry > > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:07:19 -0800, "Gessner" > wrote: > > > > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message > >news:40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET... > >> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:16:30 -0800, "Gessner" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >> > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki > >energy > >> >> > meter" as > >> >> > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? > >> >> > > > >> >> > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop > >their > >> >> > > technique for optimum effect. > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> >> > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you > >are > >> >> > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. > >> >> > >> >> *Experience* > >> > > >> >*** Experience can be measurable? Interesting statement... I will have > >to > >> >think about that too. > >> > >> Let's not make this any more difficult than it really is. If you have > >> a meter that measures something that you're doing when you're giving a > >> healing session, and it gives different readings that seem to depend > >> on what you are doing, and there is a strong correlation between > >> certain actions and certain readings, and you also keep track of how > >> the "patient" responds with relation to the readings, then you will > >> eventually figure out through observation which readings give the best > >> results, and since you kept track of what you did to get those > >> readings, you have, via means of your meter, learned what to do to get > >> the best results. The shorthand term for this longwinded paragraph is > >> "experience". :-) > > > >*** Ok, I will leave this one alone after one comment on why I still believe > >there are gaps in this analysis. ---- Say you have a guy with a broken leg. > >The last 3 times you have helped people with broken legs by hitting a #6 on > >the Reiki-o-meter. What both of you are suggesting is that this time you > >would try to hit a #6 again because "experience" tells you to do so. I have > >a problem with that for the following reason: First off Reiki IMO is not > >something that we can know how to "handle" it "handles" us. I am suggesting > >that maybe this broken leg needs to have 2 tendons healed before it will > >ever heal, and the energy knows that, we don't, so the energy will hit a > >#1.5 on the reiki-o-meter because that is the optimal level (or whatever you > >want to call it) is best for healing this EXACT problem. I have issues with > >me (as a healer) saying they know how to morph, and skew the energy to make > >it most effective. Unless the healer knows everything going on around them > >(see discussion where I talk about the possibility that the natural > >environment such as a rainy day might make reiki more effective) and the > >healer knows exactly the problem in all its facets. I don't see UE, or Reiki > >energy moldable clay, I see the healer as a delivery devise for the Reiki to > >do its magical thing. Pheww. I am exhausted. :-) > > > >> > >> Love and Light, > >> > >> Garry > >> > > > > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:59:59 GMT Lines: 84 Message-ID: <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.14.50) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077242006 48546947 I 207.69.14.50 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3hi.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13908 LOL! Actually, Gessner, I quite suspect you are correct. However, without the Reiki-o-meter we have no way of knowing. With the meter we would discover that "victim" number 4 blows our theories out of the water, and we would have to modify them to account for this. Your scenario is one possible way to account for the new data. The more victims we correlated, the more variation we would find, I suspect, but maybe after a while we would begin to recognize when we should predict one setting, and when we should predict another. That would be the scientific, analytical approach. Which may, just may, end up showing that we do better without depending on the device. But without the Reiki-o-meter we'll just never have the chance to find out one way or the other, will we? Garry On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:07:19 -0800, "Gessner" wrote: > >"Garry Williams" wrote in message >news:40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET... >> On Wed, 18 Feb 2004 22:16:30 -0800, "Gessner" >> wrote: >> >> >> > > > 2. Following closely behind that point, why would a "Reiki >energy >> >> > meter" as >> >> > > > jokingly stated mean anything to the effectivness of the healing? >> >> > > >> >> > > A 'Gerry Reiki energy meter' could help a practitioner develop >their >> >> > > technique for optimum effect. >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > ***How? If you don't know what "strength" (which I am assuming you >are >> >> > measuring with the meter) is most beneficial. >> >> >> >> *Experience* >> > >> >*** Experience can be measurable? Interesting statement... I will have >to >> >think about that too. >> >> Let's not make this any more difficult than it really is. If you have >> a meter that measures something that you're doing when you're giving a >> healing session, and it gives different readings that seem to depend >> on what you are doing, and there is a strong correlation between >> certain actions and certain readings, and you also keep track of how >> the "patient" responds with relation to the readings, then you will >> eventually figure out through observation which readings give the best >> results, and since you kept track of what you did to get those >> readings, you have, via means of your meter, learned what to do to get >> the best results. The shorthand term for this longwinded paragraph is >> "experience". :-) > >*** Ok, I will leave this one alone after one comment on why I still believe >there are gaps in this analysis. ---- Say you have a guy with a broken leg. >The last 3 times you have helped people with broken legs by hitting a #6 on >the Reiki-o-meter. What both of you are suggesting is that this time you >would try to hit a #6 again because "experience" tells you to do so. I have >a problem with that for the following reason: First off Reiki IMO is not >something that we can know how to "handle" it "handles" us. I am suggesting >that maybe this broken leg needs to have 2 tendons healed before it will >ever heal, and the energy knows that, we don't, so the energy will hit a >#1.5 on the reiki-o-meter because that is the optimal level (or whatever you >want to call it) is best for healing this EXACT problem. I have issues with >me (as a healer) saying they know how to morph, and skew the energy to make >it most effective. Unless the healer knows everything going on around them >(see discussion where I talk about the possibility that the natural >environment such as a rainy day might make reiki more effective) and the >healer knows exactly the problem in all its facets. I don't see UE, or Reiki >energy moldable clay, I see the healer as a delivery devise for the Reiki to >do its magical thing. Pheww. I am exhausted. :-) > >> >> Love and Light, >> >> Garry >> > > ###### Message-ID: <40357514.EA5A314C@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:48:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077245300 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:48:20 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 20:48:20 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13916 Garry Williams wrote: > > LOL! Actually, Gessner, I quite suspect you are correct. However, > without the Reiki-o-meter we have no way of knowing. With the meter we > would discover that "victim" number 4 blows our theories out of the > water, and we would have to modify them to account for this. Your > scenario is one possible way to account for the new data. The more > victims we correlated, the more variation we would find, I suspect, > but maybe after a while we would begin to recognize when we should > predict one setting, and when we should predict another. That would be > the scientific, analytical approach. Which may, just may, end up > showing that we do better without depending on the device. > > But without the Reiki-o-meter we'll just never have the chance to find > out one way or the other, will we? > > Garry Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what they are calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to see UE with something like the IR night vision devices. There is more information on the CMB at http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product/cobe/ http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/ http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html GramPaHugs, Alex, :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:05:46 GMT Lines: 15 Message-ID: <40357964.5359930@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31k.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.52) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077245952 48239199 I 207.69.12.52 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31k.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13917 Well, we *do* have the technology. It's called "Alex". I just don't know how to hook him up to VR, though. And if we could, we would have to pay him more than we can afford to sit still for it. ;-) Garry On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 01:59:31 GMT, Rich wrote: >I've been watching this discussion with interest, wondering if you had >the technology. I was going to suggest you somehow hook it up to Virtual >Reality and you could 'see' the energy rays in motion! >cheers >Rich ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 03:17:32 GMT Lines: 41 Message-ID: <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31k.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.52) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077246658 48226712 I 207.69.12.52 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31k.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13921 On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:48:20 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html >I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what they are >calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to see UE with something >like the IR night vision devices. Well, the only thing about that is that microwaves are the wrong frequency for healing, and besides, I thought that it was your feeling the UE was something different than electromagnetic wave forms? OTOH, it does have the property of being ubiquitous and evenly distributed, which makes me hesitant to pitch it outright. Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! Garry >There is more information on the CMB at >http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product/cobe/ >http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/ >http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html > >GramPaHugs, >Alex, > > :) > >-- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > >**************************************************** >* Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn >* AOL Click >* AOL Click >* Don't worry about life, >* you're not going to survive it anyway >**************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 62 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:07:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077401241 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:07:21 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:07:21 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-east.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13940 Garry Williams wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:48:20 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > >Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html > >I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what they > >are calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to see UE > >with something like the IR night vision devices. > > Well, the only thing about that is that microwaves are the wrong > frequency for healing, Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of the organism? Is what they are calling CMB actually microwave radiation as they are theorizing or something else that fits into their theory? > and besides, I thought that it was your feeling > the UE was something different than electromagnetic wave forms? True, though as I have said UE is affected by electromagnetic wave forms. UE could be such a long or short wave that I couldn't detect it with my oscilloscope or any of the instruments I had. > OTOH, > it does have the property of being ubiquitous and evenly distributed, > which makes me hesitant to pitch it outright. What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on that web site. ^_^ > Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! Just trying to answer questions we all have. GramPaHugs, Alex, > Garry > > >There is more information on the CMB at > >http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product/cobe/ > >http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/ > >http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html > > > >GramPaHugs, > >Alex, :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:19 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077401976 50309522 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13941 (Alex Barna) wrote: > Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of the > organism? IMO, UE couldn't give a dog's bollocks (excuse the vernacular) about the human condition ... It doesn't even do any activation .. it's just there .. to make use of .. Stuart ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:26:56 GMT Lines: 70 Message-ID: <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka30t.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.29) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077402016 48981281 I 207.69.12.29 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka30t.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13942 On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >Garry Williams wrote: >> >> On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:48:20 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: >> >> >Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html >> >I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what they >> >are calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to see UE >> >with something like the IR night vision devices. >> >> Well, the only thing about that is that microwaves are the wrong >> frequency for healing, > >Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of the organism? Yes. Have some. >Is what they are calling CMB actually microwave radiation as they are theorizing >or something else that fits into their theory? I assume they use the word "microwave" because of the particular frequency or range of frequencies. But you know what happens when one "assumes".... =:o It is known that a frequency of 2 Hz speeds up nerve regeneration, 7 Hz stimulates bone growth, 10 Hz ligament healing, and 15 Hz capillary formation, fibroblast proliferation, and decreased skin necrosis. Ordinarily, we think of microwaves as being harmful. However, some reports indicate that microwave frequencies, amongst others, are emitted from qigong healers' hands, so maybe it's a matter of how much or how strong? >> and besides, I thought that it was your feeling >> the UE was something different than electromagnetic wave forms? > >True, though as I have said UE is affected by electromagnetic wave forms. UE >could be such a long or short wave that I couldn't detect it with my >oscilloscope or any of the instruments I had. The electromagnetic fields and energies put off by the body are orders of magnitude smaller than what we are ordinarily used to detecting with our devices. It takes a SQUID to pick up the electromagnetic field of the heart or the brain. Those things don't come cheap. >> OTOH, >> it does have the property of being ubiquitous and evenly distributed, >> which makes me hesitant to pitch it outright. > > What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on that web >site. ^_^ Wonder how that works? Is it something special about the development of your eyes? Or is it some other part of you that picks it up, but your brain, for whatever reason, interprets the signal visually? Oh, wait. I'm defeating the purpose. Coming up with more questions instead of helping find a few answers. Sorry! >> Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! > >Just trying to answer questions we all have. Amen! Love and Light, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:36 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077402974 50264004 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13943 (Garry Williams) wrote: > But you know what happens when one "assumes".... =:o Yes ... it makes an ASS out of U and ME ... ;) Stuart ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:54:41 GMT Lines: 13 Message-ID: <4037e19c.4102829@news.Individual.NET> References: <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka30t.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.29) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077403680 49750546 I 207.69.12.29 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka30t.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13944 On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:36 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) wrote: >(Garry Williams) wrote: > >> But you know what happens when one "assumes".... =:o > >Yes ... it makes an ASS out of U and ME ... ;) Isn't it past your bedtime young man? Garry ###### Message-ID: <4037E304.791116F0@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:00:20 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077404396 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:59:56 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 16:59:56 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newspeer1-win.server.ntli.net!peer01.cox.net!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13945 Stuart Vernon wrote: > > (Alex Barna) wrote: > > > Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of > > the organism? > > IMO, UE couldn't give a dog's bollocks (excuse the vernacular) about > the human condition ... I agree, but I'm not talking just about humans but any organism. > It doesn't even do any activation .. it's just there .. > to make use of .. Any ideas how? Or it doesn't make any difference, just use it any way that works. GramPaHugs, Alex, > Stuart -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:21 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <4037e19c.4102829@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077405700 50306232 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13946 > >(Garry Williams) wrote: > > > >> But you know what happens when one "assumes".... =:o > > > >Yes ... it makes an ASS out of U and ME ... ;) > > Isn't it past your bedtime young man? 23:15 ... no ... or maybe ... Standard Business Analysis concept ... what people tell you is their perception of how the job/world/life works .. and it's just that ... jigsaw puzzles are my game .. ;) Stuart ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 23:21 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <4037E304.791116F0@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077405701 50306232 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13947 > > IMO, UE couldn't give a dog's bollocks (excuse the vernacular) about > > the human condition ... > > I agree, but I'm not talking just about humans but any organism. Yes, I also agree .. but those who have the conscious awareness are most likely to actually notice it .. ;) > > It doesn't even do any activation .. it's just there .. > > to make use of .. > > Any ideas how? > Or it doesn't make any difference, just use it any way > that works. Define "works" ... ;) Stuart ###### Message-ID: <40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 54 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 03:02:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077418923 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:02:03 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 21:02:03 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13952 Garry Williams wrote: > > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > > What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on > > that web site. ^_^ > > Wonder how that works? Which? That I can perceive it or that they described CMB the same way I described UE. > Is it something special about the development of your eyes? According to many eye doctors my eyes are no different than anyone else's. > Or is it some other part of you that picks it up, but > your brain, for whatever reason, interprets the signal visually? IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people learned to ignore. > Oh, wait. I'm defeating the purpose. Coming up with more questions > instead of helping find a few answers. Sorry! With some things all we can have is questions. Maybe there aren't any answers & we don't really need them. > >> Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! GramPaHugs, Alex, > >Just trying to answer questions we all have. > > Amen! > > Love and Light, > > Garry -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 05:41:58 +0200 Lines: 86 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-26-80.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4038252b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 22 Feb 2004 05:42:35 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-26-80.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-26-80.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13953 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com... > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:48:20 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > > > >Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html > > >I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what they > > >are calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to see UE > > >with something like the IR night vision devices. > > > > Well, the only thing about that is that microwaves are the wrong > > frequency for healing, > > Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of the organism? IMO it is neither. It is the organism letting go of the obstacles that reduce our sensitivity to, or impede the free flow of the UE. The organism is doing the healing on itself, and it is not UE acting on the organism by healing it or activating some of the organism's properties. > Is what they are calling CMB actually microwave radiation as they are theorizing > or something else that fits into their theory? I doubt that we can equate the CMB radiation with the UE. Is it not a "leftover" from the Big Bang, and its uniformness a form of entropy and due to decay? It originates from areas in the universe which are close to absolute zero which means, as the universe moves towards the state of absolute zero, the UE would become less and less, and eventually cease. UE is also used by some as a synonym for Life energy. Would you not expect such energy to be less than uniform, stronger around living organisms than dead ones? How did this uniformity create something so non-uniform and diverse as the many life form on this planet? > > and besides, I thought that it was your feeling > > the UE was something different than electromagnetic wave forms? > > True, though as I have said UE is affected by electromagnetic wave forms. UE > could be such a long or short wave that I couldn't detect it with my > oscilloscope or any of the instruments I had. It was the job of the Cosmic Background Explorer probe to explore and measure the phenomena. Suitable instruments are thus available, though maybe not to the general public. I suspect that we are not looking deep enough. Is the CMB radiation not a physical or material effect? To take this as UE are we then not elevating matter or one of its effects to UE? > > OTOH, > > it does have the property of being ubiquitous and evenly distributed, > > which makes me hesitant to pitch it outright. To me it is actually the uniformity that creates doubt. AFAIK, Prana is acknowledged to have different strength or presence as the day progresses. Ki may also be present to a varying degree. And if we use Reiki or acupuncture to balance to ki or chi, it must have different strength, flow, or state in the body, otherwise there would be nothing to balance. If such inequalities exist within an organism then the same may happen outside of it. If not, then what is the point of sending Reiki to a situation? What about the idea "as above, so below", or that society, nations, and even the planet, is a mirror of our aggregated personal stuff? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 06:31:05 GMT Lines: 22 Message-ID: <40384c74.2497603@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka34j.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.147) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077431064 46422459 I 207.69.12.147 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka34j.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13954 Peter and Alex, I've been trying to fit as many of the "facts" (such as we believe them to be) that we've turned up in this thread together as I can. One of the facts is that Alex perceives UE everywhere, except brighter in some spots, like around someone giving or receiving "healing intent" and darker in others. Is that right, Alex? Alex wonders if the UE is perhaps the CMB because of its uniformity. Some (but by no means all or even most) of the frequencies emitted by qigong healers have been observed to be in the microwave range, and presumably, there's no real difference between the energies that qigong healers use and any other energetic healing modality. Might it be that what Alex perceives is not the UE itself, but rather its direct effect on the local energy densities? Just a theory, feel free to shoot holes in it. :-) Love and Light, Garry P.S. Alex, please check your mailbox-is the email address in your public posts valid? ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 81 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:17:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1077452252 65.33.138.52 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:17:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:17:32 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!fuller.zen.co.uk!news-xfer.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13962 >>Just trying to answer questions we all have. GramPaHugs, Alex,<< Theories based on theories that were also based on theories and so on... smiles -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com... > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 02:48:20 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > > > >Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html > > >I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what they > > >are calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to see UE > > >with something like the IR night vision devices. > > > > Well, the only thing about that is that microwaves are the wrong > > frequency for healing, > > Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of the organism? > Is what they are calling CMB actually microwave radiation as they are theorizing > or something else that fits into their theory? > > > and besides, I thought that it was your feeling > > the UE was something different than electromagnetic wave forms? > > True, though as I have said UE is affected by electromagnetic wave forms. UE > could be such a long or short wave that I couldn't detect it with my > oscilloscope or any of the instruments I had. > > > OTOH, > > it does have the property of being ubiquitous and evenly distributed, > > which makes me hesitant to pitch it outright. > > What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on that web > site. ^_^ > > > Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! > > Just trying to answer questions we all have. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > Garry > > > > >There is more information on the CMB at > > >http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product/cobe/ > > >http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/ > > >http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html > > > > > >GramPaHugs, > > >Alex, > > :) > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** > ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> <40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 71 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 12:22:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1077452528 65.33.138.52 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:22:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 07:22:08 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!62.253.162.225.MISMATCH!newspeer1-win.server.ntli.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13961 >>IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people learned to ignore.<< Or it could simply be that what you think you see is merely in your personal imagination?? -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com... > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on > > > that web site. ^_^ > > > > Wonder how that works? > > Which? That I can perceive it or that they described CMB the same way I > described UE. > > > Is it something special about the development of your eyes? > > According to many eye doctors my eyes are no different than anyone else's. > > > Or is it some other part of you that picks it up, but > > your brain, for whatever reason, interprets the signal visually? > > IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people > learned to ignore. > > > Oh, wait. I'm defeating the purpose. Coming up with more questions > > instead of helping find a few answers. Sorry! > > With some things all we can have is questions. Maybe there aren't any answers & > we don't really need them. > > > >> Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > >Just trying to answer questions we all have. > > > > Amen! > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** > ###### From: "Steel Dragon" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:36:21 +0100 Organization: Nerim -- xDSL Internet Provider Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> NNTP-Posting-Host: chorand.net1.nerim.net X-Trace: biggoron.nerim.net 1077464146 22585 213.41.139.75 (22 Feb 2004 15:35:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@nerim.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 15:35:46 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!nerim.net!biggoron.nerim.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13971 Hi Garry and all, I've been following this thread with interest. You know what? If jealousy still had room for in my heart, and if he was not living so far from me, I think Alex might well be afraid of what I'd be ready to do in order to steal his powers ;-) > It is known that a frequency of 2 Hz speeds up nerve regeneration, > 7 Hz stimulates bone growth, 10 Hz ligament healing, and 15 Hz > capillary formation, fibroblast proliferation, and decreased skin > necrosis. As far as I know, this stuff was nearly only seriously studied (I mean, by scientists) in Russia. But mainstream scientists refuse to take into account the frequency of such wave signals - which is why, for instance, for me, present studies done around wireless telephony's possible harmful effects are not going to achieve much reliable results. But, Garry, my question is... what are your sources? Any links you might want to share about this? Henri ###### Message-ID: <403903D1.B1727EA2@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> <40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 77 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:32:33 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077478325 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:32:05 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 13:32:05 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13985 ShadowWolf wrote: > > >>IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people > learned to ignore.<< > > Or it could simply be that what you think you see is merely in your personal > imagination?? Isn't that where we all exist, in our personal imaginations? ^_^ GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > ShadowWolf > http://www.mysticreiki.com > http://www.reiki.net > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com... > > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > > > What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on > > > > that web site. ^_^ > > > > > > Wonder how that works? > > > > Which? That I can perceive it or that they described CMB the same way I > > described UE. > > > > > Is it something special about the development of your eyes? > > > > According to many eye doctors my eyes are no different than anyone else's. > > > > > Or is it some other part of you that picks it up, but > > > your brain, for whatever reason, interprets the signal visually? > > > > IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people > > learned to ignore. > > > > > Oh, wait. I'm defeating the purpose. Coming up with more questions > > > instead of helping find a few answers. Sorry! > > > > With some things all we can have is questions. Maybe there aren't any > answers & > > we don't really need them. > > > > > >> Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! > > > > GramPaHugs, > > Alex, > > > > > >Just trying to answer questions we all have. > > > > > > Amen! > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > Garry :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <4039116A.D3ACC5A8@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4038252b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 131 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:30:34 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077481806 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:30:06 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:30:06 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13989 pr wrote: > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com... > > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 20 Feb 2004, Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > > >Since I read this http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html > > > >I've wondered if what I *see* & have interpreted as UE isn't what > > > >they are calling the CMB radiation. If it is it may be possible to > > > >see UE with something like the IR night vision devices. > > > > > > Well, the only thing about that is that microwaves are the wrong > > > frequency for healing, > > > > Is the UE doing the healing or activating the healing abilities of the > > organism? > > IMO it is neither. It is the organism letting go of the obstacles > that reduce our sensitivity to, or impede the free flow of the UE. > The organism is doing the healing on itself, and it is not UE > acting on the organism by healing it or activating some of the > organism's properties. Then why do some organisms sicken & die while others thrive? IMO, people aren't the only organisms affected by UE. > > Is what they are calling CMB actually microwave radiation as they are > > theorizing or something else that fits into their theory? > > I doubt that we can equate the CMB radiation with the UE. Is it not a > "leftover" from the Big Bang, and its uniformness a form of entropy > and due to decay? IMO, That is only a theory that is being used to explain what has been detected. Many cosmologists disagree about whether there was a 'big bang'. > It originates from areas in the universe which are close to absolute > zero which means, as the universe moves towards the state of > absolute zero, the UE would become less and less, and eventually > cease. They haven't proven that yet. All they have done is detect something that appears to fits one theory of the universe. There is to much background heat for their instruments to detect if it is present here on earth. > UE is also used by some as a synonym for Life energy. Would you not > expect such energy to be less than uniform, stronger around living > organisms than dead ones? My perception is that it is. Even dead organisms are made up of living organisms. Decaying organic material is very filled with life. > How did this uniformity create something so non-uniform and diverse > as the many life form on this planet? But all the life forms on this planet are uniform according to their genetic program & even those genetic programs are very uniform. > > > and besides, I thought that it was your feeling > > > the UE was something different than electromagnetic wave forms? > > > > True, though as I have said UE is affected by electromagnetic wave > >forms. UE could be such a long or short wave that I couldn't detect it > >with my oscilloscope or any of the instruments I had. > > It was the job of the Cosmic Background Explorer probe to explore > and measure the phenomena. Suitable instruments are thus available, > though maybe not to the general public. If their instruments can only detect it in the cold of interstellar & interplanetary space I don't think they would work in the heat of this planet. > I suspect that we are not looking deep enough. Is the CMB radiation > not a physical or material effect? Having read through many of the web sites linked from that web site all I read were more theories trying to fit what they have detected into some of the more excepted theories. Though it does fit the description of a type of energy. > To take this as UE are we then not > elevating matter or one of its effects to UE? According to Einstein, matter is just a state of energy & the CMB appears to be a form of energy. > > > OTOH, > > > it does have the property of being ubiquitous and evenly > > > distributed, which makes me hesitant to pitch it outright. > > To me it is actually the uniformity that creates doubt. AFAIK, Prana > is acknowledged to have different strength or presence as the day > progresses. Ki may also be present to a varying degree. And if > we use Reiki or acupuncture to balance to ki or chi, it must have > different strength, flow, or state in the body, otherwise there would > be nothing to balance. If such inequalities exist within an organism > then the same may happen outside of it. If not, then what is the > point of sending Reiki to a situation? Good question. Faith that something good will happen is the only reason that I can think of. > What about the idea "as above, so below", > or that society, nations, and even the planet, is a mirror > of our aggregated personal stuff? You would need to ask the people that propose those ideas. GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <40391224.4B106521@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:33:40 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077481992 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:33:12 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 14:33:12 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13990 ShadowWolf wrote: > > >>Just trying to answer questions we all have. > GramPaHugs, > Alex,<< > > Theories based on theories that were also based on theories and so on... > smiles Just imagine how boring it would be if we had all the answers to all the imaginable questions. ^_^ GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > ShadowWolf > http://www.mysticreiki.com > http://www.reiki.net :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <40384c74.2497603@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 57 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:14:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077488088 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:14:48 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:14:48 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13991 Garry Williams wrote: > > Peter and Alex, I've been trying to fit as many of the "facts" (such > as we believe them to be) that we've turned up in this thread together > as I can. One of the facts is that Alex perceives UE everywhere, > except brighter in some spots, like around someone giving or receiving > "healing intent" and darker in others. Is that right, Alex? Right. Though that is a simplification of what I perceive 'see'. > Alex wonders if the UE is perhaps the CMB because of its uniformity. > Some (but by no means all or even most) of the frequencies emitted by > qigong healers have been observed to be in the microwave range, and > presumably, there's no real difference between the energies that > qigong healers use and any other energetic healing modality. Might it > be that what Alex perceives is not the UE itself, but rather its > direct effect on the local energy densities? That is how everyone sees isn't it? You see the result of light reflected from objects into your eyes & your brain interprets & identifies those signals as objects you have learned to associate with them. Right now you are seeing light emitted by your computer screen & your brain is making words from the signals it is receiving from your eyes. AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that I now believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the UE, ULF & Reiki. > Just a theory, feel free to shoot holes in it. :-) > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > P.S. Alex, please check your mailbox-is the email address in your > public posts valid? Yes my email address is valid, though I almost didn't get your email as explained in return email. :) GramPaHugs, Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Message-ID: <403931F1.9112BAF0@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 22:50:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077490252 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:50:52 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:50:52 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!fuller.zen.co.uk!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13992 Hi Henri, Steel Dragon wrote: > > Hi Garry and all, > > I've been following this thread with interest. You know what? If jealousy > still had room for in my heart, and if he was not living so far from me, I > think Alex might well be afraid of what I'd be ready to do in order to steal > his powers ;-) IMO, there is no need to steal my 'powers'. You or anyone can have all my 'powers' abilities for free. Just open your mind to the possibility. GramPaHugs, Alex, > > It is known that a frequency of 2 Hz speeds up nerve regeneration, > > 7 Hz stimulates bone growth, 10 Hz ligament healing, and 15 Hz > > capillary formation, fibroblast proliferation, and decreased skin > > necrosis. > > As far as I know, this stuff was nearly only seriously studied (I mean, by > scientists) in Russia. But mainstream scientists refuse to take into account > the frequency of such wave signals - which is why, for instance, for me, > present studies done around wireless telephony's possible harmful effects > are not going to achieve much reliable results. > > But, Garry, my question is... what are your sources? > Any links you might want to share about this? > > Henri -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:19:26 GMT Lines: 12 Message-ID: <403938bb.3072486@news.Individual.NET> References: <402472cd.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka8ev.cable.mindspring.com (207.69.33.223) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077491562 51246947 I 207.69.33.223 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka8ev.cable.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13994 On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 16:36:21 +0100, "Steel Dragon" wrote: >But, Garry, my question is... what are your sources? >Any links you might want to share about this? Check out the thread started by "talkback" called Show Me. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402051754.34858439@posting.google.com> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <4037d882.1771631@news.Individual.NET> <40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com> <403903D1.B1727EA2@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 105 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:38:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1077493081 65.33.138.52 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:38:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:38:01 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13995 > Isn't that where we all exist, in our personal imaginations? ^_^ > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, It is true that some people think that way, however I believe otherwise. We exhist on all planes, known and unknown. If we were only in our personal imaginations no one could respond to us. Smiles -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:403903D1.B1727EA2@mn.rr.com... > ShadowWolf wrote: > > > > >>IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people > > learned to ignore.<< > > > > Or it could simply be that what you think you see is merely in your personal > > imagination?? > > Isn't that where we all exist, in our personal imaginations? ^_^ > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > -- > > ShadowWolf > > http://www.mysticreiki.com > > http://www.reiki.net > > > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:40381B4D.687AEBB4@mn.rr.com... > > > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > > > > > On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:07:21 GMT, Alex Barna wrote: > > > > > > > > > What ever UE is, my vision center can perceive it as described on > > > > > that web site. ^_^ > > > > > > > > Wonder how that works? > > > > > > Which? That I can perceive it or that they described CMB the same way I > > > described UE. > > > > > > > Is it something special about the development of your eyes? > > > > > > According to many eye doctors my eyes are no different than anyone else's. > > > > > > > Or is it some other part of you that picks it up, but > > > > your brain, for whatever reason, interprets the signal visually? > > > > > > IT may just be that my thalamus & hypothalamus interpret what other people > > > learned to ignore. > > > > > > > Oh, wait. I'm defeating the purpose. Coming up with more questions > > > > instead of helping find a few answers. Sorry! > > > > > > With some things all we can have is questions. Maybe there aren't any > > answers & > > > we don't really need them. > > > > > > > >> Interesting, though. Thanks for sharing! > > > > > > GramPaHugs, > > > Alex, > > > > > > > >Just trying to answer questions we all have. > > > > > > > > Amen! > > > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > > > Garry > > :) > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** > ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:42 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077493382 51119113 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13996 (Alex Barna) wrote: > is what is called the UE, ULF & Reiki. Nope Alex ... we're beginning to confuse the modality with the supposed attributes ... ;) Stuart ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <68087810.0402050838.636b0b5b@posting.google.com> <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <40391224.4B106521@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 48 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:43:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1077493426 65.33.138.52 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:43:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:43:46 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13997 "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40391224.4B106521@mn.rr.com... > ShadowWolf wrote: > > > > >>Just trying to answer questions we all have. > > GramPaHugs, > > Alex,<< > > > > Theories based on theories that were also based on theories and so on... > > smiles > > Just imagine how boring it would be if we had all the answers to all the > imaginable questions. ^_^ > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > Heavens, that would indeed be boring!!! In fact acording to some traditions when there are no more questions there is no more life. > > -- > > ShadowWolf > > http://www.mysticreiki.com > > http://www.reiki.net > > :) > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** > ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40384c74.2497603@news.Individual.NET> <4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 82 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:47:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1077493623 65.33.138.52 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:47:03 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:47:03 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!fuller.zen.co.uk!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13999 >>AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that I now believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the UE, ULF & Reiki.<< Here we go again using the word Reiki to identify a specific energy which already has a name when in fact it is not that. Reiki is the name of a system of accessing the mentioned Energy. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com... > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > Peter and Alex, I've been trying to fit as many of the "facts" (such > > as we believe them to be) that we've turned up in this thread together > > as I can. One of the facts is that Alex perceives UE everywhere, > > except brighter in some spots, like around someone giving or receiving > > "healing intent" and darker in others. Is that right, Alex? > > Right. Though that is a simplification of what I perceive 'see'. > > > Alex wonders if the UE is perhaps the CMB because of its uniformity. > > Some (but by no means all or even most) of the frequencies emitted by > > qigong healers have been observed to be in the microwave range, and > > presumably, there's no real difference between the energies that > > qigong healers use and any other energetic healing modality. Might it > > be that what Alex perceives is not the UE itself, but rather its > > direct effect on the local energy densities? > > That is how everyone sees isn't it? You see the result of light reflected from > objects into your eyes & your brain interprets & identifies those signals as > objects you have learned to associate with them. Right now you are seeing light > emitted by your computer screen & your brain is making words from the signals it > is receiving from your eyes. > > AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals > received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that I now > believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the UE, ULF & > Reiki. > > > Just a theory, feel free to shoot holes in it. :-) > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > > > P.S. Alex, please check your mailbox-is the email address in your > > public posts valid? > > Yes my email address is valid, though I almost didn't get your email as > explained in return email. :) > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** > ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:57 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077494277 51507461 I 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!darth-vader.mobilixnet.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14001 (ShadowWolf) wrote: > In fact acording to some traditions when there are no > more questions there is no more life. Do you have questions, Wolfie? Care to ask them? Maybe the combined intellect of the ng can assist ... ;) Stuart ###### Message-ID: <40394DA3.9ED284A6@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <40384c74.2497603@news.Individual.NET> <4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 105 Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 00:42:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1077496927 65.30.225.94 (Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:42:07 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2004 18:42:07 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14004 Hi Joseph & Stuart, ShadowWolf wrote: > > >>AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals > received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that I > now believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the > UE, ULF & Reiki.<< > > Here we go again using the word Reiki to identify a specific energy which > already has a name when in fact it is not that. > Reiki is the name of a system of accessing the mentioned Energy. How am I misusing the word?? If I were to say that Usui Reiki was ULF I agree that would be incorrect. Here is the definition of the name Reiki shown on http://www.mysticreiki.com/A_Members/ & many other pages. > The word Reiki is Japanese in origin and can be translated as being made up > of two seperate kanji. > > Rei signifies "Universal" > Ki signifying the dynamic Life Force From http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm > Reiki, a japanese bi-syllabic word that means universal energy -rei- and > inner vital energy -ki-, is, from the end of the nineteenth century, a > laying-on-of-hands self-healing and healing technique. Both of you have information on your web sites that identify Reiki as a Japanese word/term that means UE &/or ULF. GramPaHugs, Alex, > -- > ShadowWolf > http://www.mysticreiki.com > http://www.reiki.net > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > news:4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com... > > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > > > Peter and Alex, I've been trying to fit as many of the "facts" (such > > > as we believe them to be) that we've turned up in this thread together > > > as I can. One of the facts is that Alex perceives UE everywhere, > > > except brighter in some spots, like around someone giving or receiving > > > "healing intent" and darker in others. Is that right, Alex? > > > > Right. Though that is a simplification of what I perceive 'see'. > > > > > Alex wonders if the UE is perhaps the CMB because of its uniformity. > > > Some (but by no means all or even most) of the frequencies emitted by > > > qigong healers have been observed to be in the microwave range, and > > > presumably, there's no real difference between the energies that > > > qigong healers use and any other energetic healing modality. Might it > > > be that what Alex perceives is not the UE itself, but rather its > > > direct effect on the local energy densities? > > > > That is how everyone sees isn't it? You see the result of light reflected > from > > objects into your eyes & your brain interprets & identifies those signals > as > > objects you have learned to associate with them. Right now you are seeing > light > > emitted by your computer screen & your brain is making words from the > signals it > > is receiving from your eyes. > > > > AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals > > received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that > I now > > believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the UE, > ULF & > > Reiki. > > > > > Just a theory, feel free to shoot holes in it. :-) > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > Garry > > > > > > P.S. Alex, please check your mailbox-is the email address in your > > > public posts valid? > > > > Yes my email address is valid, though I almost didn't get your email as > > explained in return email. :) > > > > GramPaHugs, > > Alex, -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40384c74.2497603@news.Individual.NET> <4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com> <40394DA3.9ED284A6@mn.rr.com> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Lines: 144 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:19:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1077563941 65.33.138.52 (Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:19:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 14:19:01 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!c03.atl99!news.usenetserver.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14027 Ahhh, Yup!! The given meaning for ReiKi (Rei-KI) is described as meaning Universal Life force. Easily understandable how and why so many people use it as such. Actually it is the name Usui decided to call his system according to some stories (some stories because like all the info relating to Reiki history there is no valid documentary evidence about any of it). I forget the url but somewhere on the web there is something written about a supposed article that an interview with Usui in which he states something on the order of "...and I shall call my system Reiki" Personally I believe it to all be one and the same energy regardless of what people choose to call it. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Alex Barna" wrote in message news:40394DA3.9ED284A6@mn.rr.com... > Hi Joseph & Stuart, > > ShadowWolf wrote: > > > > >>AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals > > received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that I > > now believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the > > UE, ULF & Reiki.<< > > > > Here we go again using the word Reiki to identify a specific energy which > > already has a name when in fact it is not that. > > Reiki is the name of a system of accessing the mentioned Energy. > > How am I misusing the word?? > If I were to say that Usui Reiki was ULF I agree that would be incorrect. > > Here is the definition of the name Reiki shown on > http://www.mysticreiki.com/A_Members/ & many other pages. > > > The word Reiki is Japanese in origin and can be translated as being made up > of two seperate kanji. > > > > Rei signifies "Universal" > > Ki signifying the dynamic Life Force > > From http://www.cix.co.uk/~stuv/Luca1.htm > > > Reiki, a japanese bi-syllabic word that means universal energy -rei- and > > inner vital energy -ki-, is, from the end of the nineteenth century, a > > laying-on-of-hands self-healing and healing technique. > > Both of you have information on your web sites that identify Reiki as a Japanese > word/term that means UE &/or ULF. > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > > > -- > > ShadowWolf > > http://www.mysticreiki.com > > http://www.reiki.net > > "Alex Barna" wrote in message > > news:4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com... > > > Garry Williams wrote: > > > > > > > > Peter and Alex, I've been trying to fit as many of the "facts" (such > > > > as we believe them to be) that we've turned up in this thread together > > > > as I can. One of the facts is that Alex perceives UE everywhere, > > > > except brighter in some spots, like around someone giving or receiving > > > > "healing intent" and darker in others. Is that right, Alex? > > > > > > Right. Though that is a simplification of what I perceive 'see'. > > > > > > > Alex wonders if the UE is perhaps the CMB because of its uniformity. > > > > Some (but by no means all or even most) of the frequencies emitted by > > > > qigong healers have been observed to be in the microwave range, and > > > > presumably, there's no real difference between the energies that > > > > qigong healers use and any other energetic healing modality. Might it > > > > be that what Alex perceives is not the UE itself, but rather its > > > > direct effect on the local energy densities? > > > > > > That is how everyone sees isn't it? You see the result of light reflected > > from > > > objects into your eyes & your brain interprets & identifies those signals > > as > > > objects you have learned to associate with them. Right now you are seeing > > light > > > emitted by your computer screen & your brain is making words from the > > signals it > > > is receiving from your eyes. > > > > > > AFIK my brain, via my thalamus & hypothalamus(?) is interpreting signals > > > received from my eyes that I have called my Golden Mist all my life & that > > I now > > > believe, because of experences the last 3 years, is what is called the UE, > > ULF & > > > Reiki. > > > > > > > Just a theory, feel free to shoot holes in it. :-) > > > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > > > Garry > > > > > > > > P.S. Alex, please check your mailbox-is the email address in your > > > > public posts valid? > > > > > > Yes my email address is valid, though I almost didn't get your email as > > > explained in return email. :) > > > > > > GramPaHugs, > > > Alex, > > -- > > Any information is included for informational > or entertainment purposes only, is based on my > personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. > > **************************************************** > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn > * AOL Click > * AOL Click > * Don't worry about life, > * you're not going to survive it anyway > **************************************************** ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:38:53 GMT Lines: 44 Message-ID: <403ac580.840830@news.Individual.NET> References: <40384c74.2497603@news.Individual.NET> <4039297C.CFA123FB@mn.rr.com> <40394DA3.9ED284A6@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka31n.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.55) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1077593524 50923622 I 207.69.12.55 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka31n.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14039 On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 19:19:01 GMT, "ShadowWolf" wrote: >Ahhh, Yup!! >The given meaning for ReiKi (Rei-KI) is described as meaning Universal Life >force. As I understand it, the "ki" by itself means Universal Life Force, and the "rei" means spiritual. Most of the time the "spiritual" part gets left out. But not being even a furrin Japanese speaker, much less a native one, I am perfectly happy to be corrected. The above came from "The Reiki Sourcebook" >Easily understandable how and why so many people use it as such. >Actually it is the name Usui decided to call his system according to some >stories (some stories because like all the info relating to Reiki history >there is no valid documentary evidence about any of it). >I forget the url but somewhere on the web there is something written about a >supposed article that an interview with Usui in which he states something on >the order of "...and I shall call my system Reiki" Now, the stories I've heard and read say that Usui never referred to his system as Reiki, it was Usui-do or Usui teate. One could just as easily stick to those stories as the stories that say Usui called his system Reiki. Who's a body to believe? I personally have only ever heard fellow living Reiki practitioners refer to the system as Reiki. OTOH, I've also heard fellow living practitioners refer to the ULF as Reiki. I can usually tell whether they are referring to the system or the energy by context, so I don't nitpick over a name that I can't prove one way of the other. But that's just me. You go right on insisting, Joseph, if that's what you want to do. :-) >Personally I believe it to all be one and the same energy regardless of what >people choose to call it. Now you're talking sense! Love and Light, Garry >ShadowWolf >http://www.mysticreiki.com >http://www.reiki.net ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 04:22:25 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: <40455bc9.560477@news.Individual.NET> References: <4025c214.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <40266578.A37D3342@shaw.ca> <4029dadb.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4029f042.1180440@news.Individual.NET> <402bd1b1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402D2A55.62A5791D@mn.rr.com> <402dfd6b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <402E72FE.FED8E778@mn.rr.com> <402ef7ce.1856162@news.Individual.NET> <402FEB56.414ECABA@mn.rr.com> <40305cd9.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4030F650.5E72F143@mn.rr.com> <403192F0.3D9CC79D@mn.rr.com> <4033D575.1E136E08@mn.rr.com> <40349cec.790935@news.Individual.NET> <403568bc.1095850@news.Individual.NET> <40357c39.6084820@news.Individual.NET> <4037D639.DF082665@mn.rr.com> <40391224.4B106521@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0od.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.13) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1078287552 58745355 I 207.69.3.13 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0od.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14310 On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 23:43:46 GMT, "ShadowWolf" wrote: >In fact acording to some traditions when there are no more questions there >is no more life. Don't know why I didn't think of this at the time, but rereading this thread just now, it reminded me of a sci-fi story I read long ago by, IIRC, Arthur C. Clark called "The Nine Billion Names of God". Apparently some monks in a remote Tibetan monastery had some tradition that it was their task to write down all the different names of God, and they had some sort of algorithm that told them there were 9 billion names. According to their beliefs, once all 9 billion names had been recorded, the world would come to an end. They'd been working for many centuries, hardly making a dent in the work, but along comes the modern age, and an enterprising computer salesman. He gets them set up with a PC, and the machine cranks on the problem for a little while and then starts printing out the list. The salesman looks up into the sky and sees the stars winking out, one by one... ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 05:37:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1078292241 24.71.223.147 (Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:37:21 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 22:37:21 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14311 I have this quote on my desk. It was given to me by a friend when I said I had the audacity to try to author an interactive website. (still in progress with my tendencies now towards blogging) "The best things cannot be told, the second best are misunderstood. After that comes civilized conversation; after that, mass indoctrination; after that, intercultural exchange. And so, proceeding, we come to the problem of communication: the opening, that is to say, of one's own truth and depth to the depth and truth of another in such a way as to establish an authentic community of existence." It puts things in perspective for me. Or does it? Hmm. I may have misunderstood the quote. :) Rich Stuart Vernon wrote: > > (ShadowWolf) wrote: > > > In fact acording to some traditions when there are no > > more questions there is no more life. > > Do you have questions, Wolfie? > > Care to ask them? > > Maybe the combined intellect of the ng can assist ... ;) > > Stuart ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 03:04:36 +0200 Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-115.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <40469c5b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 4 Mar 2004 05:02:51 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-115.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.ipv6.iphh.net!iphh.net!news.shlink.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news.osn.de!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-115.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14321 "Rich" wrote in message news:40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca... > I have this quote on my desk. It was given to me by a friend when I said > I had the audacity to try to author an interactive website. > (still in progress with my tendencies now towards blogging) > > "The best things cannot be told, the second best are misunderstood. > After that comes civilized conversation; after that, mass > indoctrination; > after that, intercultural exchange. > And so, proceeding, we come to the problem of communication: the > opening, that is to say, of one's > own truth and depth to the depth and truth of another in such a way as > to establish an authentic community of existence." > > It puts things in perspective for me. Or does it? Hmm. I may have > misunderstood > the quote. :) It looks to me that when there there are no more questions it is the beginning of life. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > > Stuart Vernon wrote: > > > > (ShadowWolf) wrote: > > > > > In fact acording to some traditions when there are no > > > more questions there is no more life. > > > > Do you have questions, Wolfie? > > > > Care to ask them? > > > > Maybe the combined intellect of the ng can assist ... ;) > > > > Stuart ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4046A1D7.4ADCA4EE@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] References: <40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca> <40469c5b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 03:28:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1078370886 24.71.223.147 (Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:28:06 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:28:06 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14322 Interesting perspective. On another newsgroup someone said that when there are no more questions then it is the END of life. What I see in your view (actually true for me in some cases) is that it is 'normal' to postpone some of living until one has all the answers. Or put another way, if a person had no more questions to use as a delaying tactic, then he must face life head on. Ouch! cheers Rich pr wrote: > > "Rich" wrote in message news:40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca... > > I have this quote on my desk. It was given to me by a friend when I said > > I had the audacity to try to author an interactive website. > > (still in progress with my tendencies now towards blogging) > > > > "The best things cannot be told, the second best are misunderstood. > > After that comes civilized conversation; after that, mass > > indoctrination; > > after that, intercultural exchange. > > And so, proceeding, we come to the problem of communication: the > > opening, that is to say, of one's > > own truth and depth to the depth and truth of another in such a way as > > to establish an authentic community of existence." > > > > It puts things in perspective for me. Or does it? Hmm. I may have > > misunderstood > > the quote. :) > > It looks to me that when there there are no > more questions it is the beginning of life. > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > Stuart Vernon wrote: > > > > > > (ShadowWolf) wrote: > > > > > > > In fact acording to some traditions when there are no > > > > more questions there is no more life. > > > > > > Do you have questions, Wolfie? > > > > > > Care to ask them? > > > > > > Maybe the combined intellect of the ng can assist ... ;) > > > > > > Stuart ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca> <40469c5b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4046A1D7.4ADCA4EE@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: Knowing vs "That's that" [Re: Newby..] Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 06:05:34 +0200 Lines: 78 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-205.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4047fc7b.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 5 Mar 2004 06:05:15 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-205.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-205.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:14353 "Rich" wrote in message news:4046A1D7.4ADCA4EE@shaw.ca... > Interesting perspective. On another newsgroup someone said that when > there > are no more questions then it is the END of life. What I see in your > view > (actually true for me in some cases) is that it is 'normal' to postpone > some of living until one has all the answers. Or put another way, if a > person had no > more questions to use as a delaying tactic, then he must face life head > on. Ouch! Questions are not necessarily delaying tactics, but they are always thought and "head stuff" and in that way they separate us from the rest of the universe. How important thinking is for most people you can see from them claiming that when it stops life comes to an end. They prefer a mental existence over a physical existence by far. For most it is the only existence they have or feel comfortable with. When questions end, thoughts end and then you have an enlightened state. Then you really live from the ground up. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > pr wrote: > > > > "Rich" wrote in message news:40456EA4.58B0B9E2@shaw.ca... > > > I have this quote on my desk. It was given to me by a friend when I said > > > I had the audacity to try to author an interactive website. > > > (still in progress with my tendencies now towards blogging) > > > > > > "The best things cannot be told, the second best are misunderstood. > > > After that comes civilized conversation; after that, mass > > > indoctrination; > > > after that, intercultural exchange. > > > And so, proceeding, we come to the problem of communication: the > > > opening, that is to say, of one's > > > own truth and depth to the depth and truth of another in such a way as > > > to establish an authentic community of existence." > > > > > > It puts things in perspective for me. Or does it? Hmm. I may have > > > misunderstood > > > the quote. :) > > > > It looks to me that when there there are no > > more questions it is the beginning of life. > > > > -- > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" > > > > > > > > Stuart Vernon wrote: > > > > > > > > (ShadowWolf) wrote: > > > > > > > > > In fact acording to some traditions when there are no > > > > > more questions there is no more life. > > > > > > > > Do you have questions, Wolfie? > > > > > > > > Care to ask them? > > > > > > > > Maybe the combined intellect of the ng can assist ... ;) > > > > > > > > Stuart