From: NAbodhi@webtv.net (NA Bodhi) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: faith versus intention Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:36:57 -0500 (EST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 14 Message-ID: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAw8fZmx4YErRJTcKEdnlg81iMBPMCFEHnk8ttWRSgBfPbhGhq+Y8D3jKh Content-Disposition: Inline Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.glorb.com!newsfeed-3001.bay.webtv.net!newssorter-3001.bay.webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12972 Hello all, I was just wondering your thoughts on how big a role faith plays in Reiki. I know there is alot of talk of intention. What role does faith play in being able to perceive the Reiki energy? What role does it play in actual healing results? I am by nature a person of little faith. I have been practicing Reiki for almost 2 years. I received distant attunements and have not had the confidence to use it on other people. I have used it exclusively on myself and animals. I find it to be calming as a meditative sort of excercise. I have not had success in healing any physical ailments. Peace, Monica ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp148-91.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 22 Jan 2004 16:16:24 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074750384 ppp148-91.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (22 Jan 2004 16:16:24 +1050) Lines: 89 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12973 NAbodhi@webtv.net (NA Bodhi) wrote in news:22522-400F4559-96@storefull- 3131.bay.webtv.net: > Hello all, > I was just wondering your thoughts on how big a role faith plays in > Reiki. I know there is alot of talk of intention. What role does faith > play in being able to perceive the Reiki energy? Hi Bodhi, Faith has no part in percieving it at all in my opinion. It's practice instead of faith that makes most people sensitive to the energy. Most people percieve it in a fairly short time, but to do so you need to treat someone who draws the energy well, such as a tired person or a sick or emotional person etc.. What role does it play > in actual healing results? In my opinion, Reiki takes away pain and accelerates the body's natural healing. I don't believe that Reiki can perform miracles outside of what is physically possible for a body to do. For instance, Reiki will not regrow limbs or a person's head, or bring a person back from the dead when their body can not sustain life. In fact, I don't personally think Reiki is miraculous or religious at all myself. Some people makes these claims or feel that it is a spiritual path above not being a Reiki channel- but I've never seen proof of anything beyond the body's own healing process being accelerated and enhanced. I'm of the opinion that faith makes no difference whatsoever. In time with practice, you might find sufficient proof for you to see the value in Reiki treatments, by your experience. Even a Reiki practitioner of fairly poor ability can releave minor headaches at the very least quite often. In time and with practice, they are able to hold and channel greater amounts of energy. > I am by nature a person of little faith. To me, there's a lot of cliches and mumbo-jumbo that goes along with some Reiki teachers, but regardless, the energy works despite whatever they or their students believe. Having doubts and little faith is in my opinion a good thing, as these sorts of people are the type who find the answers for themselves instead of taking other people's word on things - so good for you. I have been practicing Reiki > for almost 2 years. I received distant attunements and have not had the > confidence to use it on other people. If you've learnt Reiki just by distant attunement alone, you've missed out on the benefit of practing inside of the class, which is important to do to get a feeling for how to treat and when to move to the next hand position by sensing the energy switching off. It also gives you an opportunity to treat someone who will draw the energy well as people who are initiated generally draw the energy well and teachers even more so. Distant treatments are also more difficult in the begining too, so it really helps to get hands on experience. I have used it exclusively on > myself and animals. I find it to be calming as a meditative sort of > excercise. I have not had success in healing any physical ailments. Practice enhances your ability to recieve and transmit the energy. Treating yourself often keeps your energy strong too, so you can give and recieve more. I wouldn't worry too much about curing physical ailments - just think of it as being a help. In some cases, it does indeed remove ailments, but worrying one way or the other will drive you nuts. It's best just to try to channel as much energy as you can, and leave the rest to the energy and the person's body to use the energy as it needs. In some cases people won't be impressed with Reiki, and in other cases they'll really benefit from the energy and be pleased. Hope this helps, Sean > > Peace, > Monica > > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:54:38 GMT Lines: 100 Message-ID: <400fb9b5.526170@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka0tv.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.3.191) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074772194 21448357 207.69.3.191 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka0tv.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12976 Monica, what he said! Sean, wise words, and well said! Love and Light, Garry On 22 Jan 2004 16:16:24 +1050, Sean White wrote: >NAbodhi@webtv.net (NA Bodhi) wrote in news:22522-400F4559-96@storefull- >3131.bay.webtv.net: > >> Hello all, >> I was just wondering your thoughts on how big a role faith plays in >> Reiki. I know there is alot of talk of intention. What role does >faith >> play in being able to perceive the Reiki energy? > >Hi Bodhi, >Faith has no part in percieving it at all in my opinion. It's practice >instead of faith that makes most people sensitive to the energy. Most >people percieve it in a fairly short time, but to do so you need to >treat someone who draws the energy well, such as a tired person or a >sick or emotional person etc.. > > >What role does it play >> in actual healing results? > >In my opinion, Reiki takes away pain and accelerates the body's natural >healing. I don't believe that Reiki can perform miracles outside of what >is physically possible for a body to do. For instance, Reiki will not >regrow limbs or a person's head, or bring a person back from the dead >when their body can not sustain life. In fact, I don't personally think >Reiki is miraculous or religious at all myself. Some people makes these >claims or feel that it is a spiritual path above not being a Reiki >channel- but I've never seen proof of anything beyond the body's own >healing process being accelerated and enhanced. > >I'm of the opinion that faith makes no difference whatsoever. In time >with practice, you might find sufficient proof for you to see the value >in Reiki treatments, by your experience. Even a Reiki practitioner of >fairly poor ability can releave minor headaches at the very least quite >often. In time and with practice, they are able to hold and channel >greater amounts of energy. > >> I am by nature a person of little faith. > >To me, there's a lot of cliches and mumbo-jumbo that goes along with >some Reiki teachers, but regardless, the energy works despite whatever >they or their students believe. Having doubts and little faith is in my >opinion a good thing, as these sorts of people are the type who find the >answers for themselves instead of taking other people's word on things - >so good for you. > >I have been practicing Reiki >> for almost 2 years. I received distant attunements and have not had >the >> confidence to use it on other people. > >If you've learnt Reiki just by distant attunement alone, you've missed >out on the benefit of practing inside of the class, which is important >to do to get a feeling for how to treat and when to move to the next >hand position by sensing the energy switching off. It also gives you an >opportunity to treat someone who will draw the energy well as people who >are initiated generally draw the energy well and teachers even more so. > >Distant treatments are also more difficult in the begining too, so it >really helps to get hands on experience. > >I have used it exclusively on >> myself and animals. I find it to be calming as a meditative sort of >> excercise. I have not had success in healing any physical ailments. > >Practice enhances your ability to recieve and transmit the energy. >Treating yourself often keeps your energy strong too, so you can give >and recieve more. I wouldn't worry too much about curing physical >ailments - just think of it as being a help. > >In some cases, it does indeed remove ailments, but worrying one way or >the other will drive you nuts. It's best just to try to channel as much >energy as you can, and leave the rest to the energy and the person's >body to use the energy as it needs. In some cases people won't be >impressed with Reiki, and in other cases they'll really benefit from the >energy and be pleased. > >Hope this helps, > >Sean > > > >> >> Peace, >> Monica >> >> > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:00:41 GMT Lines: 18 From: suzee Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!router1.news.adelphia.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12979 Sean White wrote: > If you've learnt Reiki just by distant attunement alone, you've missed > out on the benefit of practing inside of the class, which is important > to do to get a feeling for how to treat and when to move to the next > hand position by sensing the energy switching off. It also gives you an > opportunity to treat someone who will draw the energy well as people who > are initiated generally draw the energy well and teachers even more so. I don't readily sense the energy on or off, but I trust that it's there. Wouldn't that be the same as faith? And yes, I've done hands on energy classes (other than reiki), but I just don't `feel' the energy, at least not always. And that's one reason I don't do distance attunements or healing, because I don't feel that connection. However, there are times when I do sense it, and when I do touch acupressure when I do feel energy, so I'm reassured that I'm not totally `blind' to it. sue ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:28:49 -0600 From: "Bob R" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Followup-To: poster References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 11:28:45 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.147.18.217 X-Trace: sv3-t3Dr1vRe1rycgdTRZRNjQPg0zjMULr7F6IdmuFM+oQK2/aqhCc9RXZWvA7Ko+mRD6gFzNMhV1za3zgp!DQYO7AvolnJj59EbukzrIWtHf6OYUx5FsfXff8MJnh+2vQx9VhMbaYoKWlMSIA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!border1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.sjc.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12981 I have been practicing just about a year. I'm not a deeply religious person but I do have faith in my abilities. This belief in myself (which does wane from time to time) does manifest itself in my ability to generate the Reiki power with people( myself included), dealing with spirits and of recent, making things happen related to my dealing with the Veteran's Administration. And positive outcomes of other situations. I started strongly believing in my Reiki abilities by continuing to practice on as many friends,family etc. and I am constantly amazed by the outcomes. I also combine what I do with my Shaman studies which I feel enhance my energy. Don't be afraid to find someone and practice on them. I believe your guides will never let anything happen that will be detrimental, so how can you loose? -- Bob Roffman MS, Usui Reiki Master "NA Bodhi" wrote in message news:22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net... > Hello all, > I was just wondering your thoughts on how big a role faith plays in > Reiki. I know there is alot of talk of intention. What role does faith > play in being able to perceive the Reiki energy? What role does it play > in actual healing results? > I am by nature a person of little faith. I have been practicing Reiki > for almost 2 years. I received distant attunements and have not had the > confidence to use it on other people. I have used it exclusively on > myself and animals. I find it to be calming as a meditative sort of > excercise. I have not had success in healing any physical ailments. > > Peace, > Monica > ###### Message-ID: <401000CA.7BF26BDF@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 75 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 16:51:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1074790289 65.30.225.94 (Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:51:29 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 10:51:29 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12983 Hi Monica NA Bodhi wrote: > > Hello all, > I was just wondering your thoughts on how big a role faith plays in > Reiki. IMO/IME, From what I have read online at many different Reiki sites is that some versions of Reiki require a faith in some Dogma while some don't require a belief in anything specific. > I know there is alot of talk of intention. Intention is all that is required. > What role does faith play in being able to perceive the Reiki energy? Religious faith? That depends on the individual. Establishing the faith/belief that Reiki exists is what an attunement does & then practice, practice, & practice. Children have to learn that fire is hot & you can learn to perceive Reiki. > What role does it play in actual healing results? None, Reiki works on animals & plants & their faith is only in their care giver. > I am by nature a person of little faith. Actually you have lots of faith. Think about all the things you have faith in. Start with the sun will set tonight & rise tomorrow, & go on from there. > I have been practicing Reiki for almost 2 years. Practice it often every day & use it & keep as much as you want as your own. ^_^ > I received distant attunements and have not had the > confidence to use it on other people. Have faith that Reiki will do as much as it can. I have found that it is only limited by what we believe it can do. Faith again. ^..^ > I have used it exclusively on myself and animals. Plants like it also. > I find it to be calming as a meditative sort of excercise. > I have not had success in healing any physical ailments. That is where Faith that Reiki can help you heal comes in. Think of it as a placebo affect with long term effects & see if it helps then. ^_^ GramPaHugs, Alex, > Peace, > Monica -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. No endorsement is implied or intended. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:32:41 +0800 From: Reader User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 219.95.13.34 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 219.95.13.34 Message-ID: <40112ea3_1@news.tm.net.my> X-Trace: news.tm.net.my 1074867875 219.95.13.34 (23 Jan 2004 22:24:35 +0800) Organization: TMnet Malaysia Lines: 107 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!ash.uu.net!news1.tm.net.my Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13001 Thanks, Sean, for your observations. I do not have a teacher. I am not attuned by anyone yet. So I have to get advice from the Internet. I studied from websites and practice the hatsurei-ho daily, do self-healing after that and use my wife for practice. Wish I could have a group to study together. Reiki practitioners are still a rare thing in my location. I am not even sure what I did was Reiki, strictly speaking. Hence the 2 questions. Regards, Chang Sean White wrote: > Hi Chang, > > Q1 I've encountred pulsing before, but I wouldn't use the slowing down > as the mark to change positions. People sense Reiki in a lot of > different ways - the experience of it is different to each person, so > there isn't a normal way, but the most common sensation is hot/cold or > pushing or pulling onto the treated area. Pulsing, vibrating and so > forth also happen, but usually are not the main sensation, but smaller > sensations that coincide with the coarser sensations of the energy flow. > Some people literally have their hands flick off the position when the > flow has stopped without willing it whatsoever too. > > Q2 I would tend to wait until the pulsing itself stops completely, and > then move on to the next one. > If you're unsure, ask your teacher to check your hands when you're doing > the positions. Sometimes one position can take a lot longer than > another. Keep practicing and you'll get it. If you're in doubt to move > to the next position, it's best to stay where you are and let the energy > click over - at the worst they're getting a double helping and it will > get you accustomed to when to move. Look out for the energy flow peaking > for a while and then reducing. Some time after it reduces, the flow will > stop - and that's the time to move. The energy can also change gears so > to speak, and sometimes when this happens, you get vibrating and subtle > sensations. > > Sean > > > > Reader wrote in news:4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my: > > >>Dear All, >> >>I needed your opinions re sensing the energy flow. >> >>Q1. When I am channelling energy, my hands will feel warm and I sense >>pulses, like waves rolling from the direction of one hand to the >>other. Is this normal? What are your experience? >> >>Q2. The pulsing rate would sometimes slowed down. Is that an >>indication that it is time to move on to the next position? >> >> >>Thank you. >> >>Chang >> >> >>Sean White wrote: >> >> >>>Hi Sue, >>> I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something >>>important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first >>>degree initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. >>> >>>I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead >>>a demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think >>>that there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire >>>the ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel >>>or teacher can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as >>>to recieve the third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you >>>down greatly. >>> >>>As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as >>>initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy >>>consistently, you're not able to be directed how long to treat an >>>area for example. Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, >>>distant healing and attunements are close to useless. If you would >>>have been my student, I wouldn't have left these gaps in your >>>training! >>> >>>I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the >>>barest amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what >>>I've said might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the >>>skill so you're better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the >>>people you've spoken with to develop the skill for the reasons I've >>>mentioned. >>> >>> >>>Sean >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: >>> >> >> > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 23 Jan 2004 11:34:03 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074819843 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (23 Jan 2004 11:34:03 +1050) Lines: 52 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12988 Hi Sue, I've found that one can pretty deepen their sensitivity to the energy turing on and off with a bit of persistance. Treating someone who drains a lot of energy is the best way in my opinion to develop sensitivity. If you know another Reiki teacher or a sick person, practice on them. I find that extending your Reiki channeling ability will deepen the level of energy, and so makes it easier to sense. It's also initially easier to sense when treating others than on yourself. Maintaining a close concentration on the palms during a treatment is a good way of enhancing your sensitivity too. Also light meditation and quiet, really help concentration before a session or attunement. If you've recieved the teacher initiation, then you really should be able to feel the energy all the time. Sensing the energy helps with treatment and can make your attunements and distant healings a lot more powerful too. Doing distant treatments and attunements are not as satisfying to a great deal of people, and I can understand that. It's nice to be presented with the person you're treating or attuning. Even though I can sense the energy consistently, it's nice to actually be present with the physical person. Sean suzee wrote in news:a93788cdd65de8e2571da03586cb8ce1 @news.teranews.com: > Sean White wrote: > >> If you've learnt Reiki just by distant attunement alone, you've missed >> out on the benefit of practing inside of the class, which is important >> to do to get a feeling for how to treat and when to move to the next >> hand position by sensing the energy switching off. It also gives you an >> opportunity to treat someone who will draw the energy well as people who >> are initiated generally draw the energy well and teachers even more so. > > I don't readily sense the energy on or off, but I trust that it's there. > Wouldn't that be the same as faith? And yes, I've done hands on energy > classes (other than reiki), but I just don't `feel' the energy, at least > not always. And that's one reason I don't do distance attunements or > healing, because I don't feel that connection. However, there are times > when I do sense it, and when I do touch acupressure when I do feel > energy, so I'm reassured that I'm not totally `blind' to it. > > sue > ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 20:26:09 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 39 Message-ID: <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm671-34.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12990 Sean White wrote: > > Hi Sue, > I've found that one can pretty deepen their sensitivity to the energy > turing on and off with a bit of persistance. Treating someone who drains a > lot of energy is the best way in my opinion to develop sensitivity. > > If you know another Reiki teacher or a sick person, practice on them. I > find that extending your Reiki channeling ability will deepen the level of > energy, and so makes it easier to sense. It's also initially easier to > sense when treating others than on yourself. > > Maintaining a close concentration on the palms during a treatment is a good > way of enhancing your sensitivity too. Also light meditation and quiet, > really help concentration before a session or attunement. > > If you've recieved the teacher initiation, then you really should be able > to feel the energy all the time. Sensing the energy helps with treatment > and can make your attunements and distant healings a lot more powerful too. > > Doing distant treatments and attunements are not as satisfying to a great > deal of people, and I can understand that. It's nice to be presented with > the person you're treating or attuning. Even though I can sense the energy > consistently, it's nice to actually be present with the physical person. > > Sean I found learning tai chi helped increase my `feel' of the energy, and the type of acupressure I do has also. I do massage and end all my sessions with a `quicky' reiki handson. Sometimes I feel it flowing (like when the client really draws a lot) and sometimes not. I don't worry about it, I just trust that it's there. My reply to you was not so much about me, but to point out that there are some people who just don't sense the energy flow as readily as others. I've discussed that with other practioners. They don't worry about it either, feeling that those of us who don't feel it, don't need the `reassurance' that it's there and flowing the way other people do. sue ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 23 Jan 2004 17:56:15 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074842775 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (23 Jan 2004 17:56:15 +1050) Lines: 49 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!ash.uu.net!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12993 Hi Sue, I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first degree initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead a demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think that there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire the ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel or teacher can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as to recieve the third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you down greatly. As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy consistently, you're not able to be directed how long to treat an area for example. Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, distant healing and attunements are close to useless. If you would have been my student, I wouldn't have left these gaps in your training! I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the barest amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what I've said might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the skill so you're better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the people you've spoken with to develop the skill for the reasons I've mentioned. Sean suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: >> Sean > > I found learning tai chi helped increase my `feel' of the energy, and > the type of acupressure I do has also. I do massage and end all my > sessions with a `quicky' reiki handson. Sometimes I feel it flowing > (like when the client really draws a lot) and sometimes not. I don't > worry about it, I just trust that it's there. My reply to you was not > so much about me, but to point out that there are some people who just > don't sense the energy flow as readily as others. I've discussed that > with other practioners. They don't worry about it either, feeling that > those of us who don't feel it, don't need the `reassurance' that it's > there and flowing the way other people do. > > sue > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 23 Jan 2004 22:39:58 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074859798 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (23 Jan 2004 22:39:58 +1050) Lines: 89 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!snewsf0.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12997 Hi Chang, Q1 I've encountred pulsing before, but I wouldn't use the slowing down as the mark to change positions. People sense Reiki in a lot of different ways - the experience of it is different to each person, so there isn't a normal way, but the most common sensation is hot/cold or pushing or pulling onto the treated area. Pulsing, vibrating and so forth also happen, but usually are not the main sensation, but smaller sensations that coincide with the coarser sensations of the energy flow. Some people literally have their hands flick off the position when the flow has stopped without willing it whatsoever too. Q2 I would tend to wait until the pulsing itself stops completely, and then move on to the next one. If you're unsure, ask your teacher to check your hands when you're doing the positions. Sometimes one position can take a lot longer than another. Keep practicing and you'll get it. If you're in doubt to move to the next position, it's best to stay where you are and let the energy click over - at the worst they're getting a double helping and it will get you accustomed to when to move. Look out for the energy flow peaking for a while and then reducing. Some time after it reduces, the flow will stop - and that's the time to move. The energy can also change gears so to speak, and sometimes when this happens, you get vibrating and subtle sensations. Sean Reader wrote in news:4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my: > Dear All, > > I needed your opinions re sensing the energy flow. > > Q1. When I am channelling energy, my hands will feel warm and I sense > pulses, like waves rolling from the direction of one hand to the > other. Is this normal? What are your experience? > > Q2. The pulsing rate would sometimes slowed down. Is that an > indication that it is time to move on to the next position? > > > Thank you. > > Chang > > > Sean White wrote: > >> Hi Sue, >> I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something >> important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first >> degree initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. >> >> I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead >> a demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think >> that there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire >> the ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel >> or teacher can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as >> to recieve the third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you >> down greatly. >> >> As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as >> initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy >> consistently, you're not able to be directed how long to treat an >> area for example. Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, >> distant healing and attunements are close to useless. If you would >> have been my student, I wouldn't have left these gaps in your >> training! >> >> I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the >> barest amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what >> I've said might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the >> skill so you're better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the >> people you've spoken with to develop the skill for the reasons I've >> mentioned. >> >> >> Sean >> >> >> >> >> suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: >> > > ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 07:30:35 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 35 Message-ID: <401113EB.B6D76EDB@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm837-20.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!router1.news.adelphia.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12998 Sean White wrote: > > Hi Sue, > I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something > important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first degree > initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. > > I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead a > demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think that > there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire the > ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel or teacher > can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as to recieve the > third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you down greatly. > > As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as > initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy consistently, > you're not able to be directed how long to treat an area for example. > Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, distant healing and > attunements are close to useless. If you would have been my student, I > wouldn't have left these gaps in your training! > > I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the barest > amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what I've said > might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the skill so you're > better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the people you've spoken > with to develop the skill for the reasons I've mentioned. Well I don't entirely agree with a lot of your conclusions, either, but then I'm more of a heretic. Reiki is not a main focus for me, more of a side thing in the body/energy work field, and I'm quite satisfied with my work in it. So are people who've received it from me; apparently they can sense it flowing through me much better than I can, and that's feedback enough for me. sue ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Lines: 69 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:49:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1074869393 65.33.138.52 (Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:49:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:49:53 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13000 Hi Monica, It would seem obvious that you are already working from a point of Faith however so slight. In receiving your distant attunement you had to allow for a degree of faith. In beginning to practice on the self and other animals you had to be working from faith yet again. There is nothing wrong with being skeptic about the use of reiki on either the self or on others. Truth be known my first encounter with Reiki was at a time I just knew it was hogwash and I accepted a treatment just to prove it was hogwash. I doubt that there are many who are more skeptical than I am but I am blessed in that I will investigate those areas just in case. It is said by some that reiki is meant to be a self treatment modality and that is something I feel is misunderstood to some degree. yes it is possible to treat the self but the real leaning comes from treating others. Of course it depends on how you approach the treatment. If you can accept that the energy comes from a power (source) greater than the self and if you can step aside and allow it to be free from your personal needs which are governed by your "Ego" you may find that the results will surprise not only the receiver by yourself. Faith is a strange thing and can be confused with other things. But Reiki is based on a form of faith that lays claim to the natural ability of every individual to be able to access the Universal Life force regardless of their belief system and regardless of the degree of faith they hold in it or anything. The mere act of attempting to do it is all the faith it takes. Remember that you do not control what the energy will achieve, it will do what it determines is most needed by the receiver (not the giver). Why not try it on others? Just explain that you are doing some thing called energy work and you would like them to give you feedback on what if anything they experience from the session. Do not promise to "FIX" anything specific. Another aspect of this is obvious- Intention. Another misused word. Intention should be that you remain a clear channel for the energy and allow it to function on its own. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "NA Bodhi" wrote in message news:22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net... > Hello all, > I was just wondering your thoughts on how big a role faith plays in > Reiki. I know there is alot of talk of intention. What role does faith > play in being able to perceive the Reiki energy? What role does it play > in actual healing results? > I am by nature a person of little faith. I have been practicing Reiki > for almost 2 years. I received distant attunements and have not had the > confidence to use it on other people. I have used it exclusively on > myself and animals. I find it to be calming as a meditative sort of > excercise. I have not had success in healing any physical ailments. > > Peace, > Monica > > ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:25:43 +0000 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1074875304 6826 194.222.30.223 (23 Jan 2004 16:28:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:28:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13003 ShadowWolf writes > >It is said by some that reiki is meant to be a self treatment modality and >that is something I feel is misunderstood to some degree. >yes it is possible to treat the self but the real leaning comes from >treating others. My feeling is that both elements are of equal importance and value. To place one above the other implies that either the self or the others are in greater need or of greater worth. Which I would argue isn't so. The two interchange and enhance each other - work on the self improves the ability to provide support for others. Work with others enhances one's own development and well being. It'll never be the case that we *have* to choose etween the two - we are all at perfect liberty to decide who we treat (including ourselves) and where and for how long etc. Yes ? -- Judy http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:34:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1074882863 65.33.138.52 (Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:34:23 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:34:23 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.10.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13004 -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Judy Rigby" wrote in message news:9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk... > ShadowWolf writes > > > >It is said by some that reiki is meant to be a self treatment modality and > >that is something I feel is misunderstood to some degree. > >yes it is possible to treat the self but the real leaning comes from > >treating others. > > > My feeling is that both elements are of equal importance and value. To > place one above the other implies that either the self or the others are > in greater need or of greater worth. Which I would argue isn't so. The > two interchange and enhance each other - work on the self improves the > ability to provide support for others. Work with others enhances one's > own development and well being. It'll never be the case that we *have* > to choose etween the two - we are all at perfect liberty to decide who > we treat (including ourselves) and where and for how long etc. Yes ? > -- > Judy > http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk > Ok lets go a step further with this. First I did not mean to imply that self treatment was not of value. What I said was the "Learning" aspect was greater when done on others than when done on the self. One doesn't lose out on self treatment when working on others either as we receive at the same time we are sharing. I have found ( for me at least) that the Reiki I receive when sharing does more for me than when I do a self treatment (in most cases). Yes it is everyone's choice to work in Reiki as they choose but this person whom I addressed was having obvious doubts about their ability to perform hence the suggestion to go ahead and work on others for the obvious reasons. I have yet to see any proof that working on the self improves the flow especially if that flow is not shared. Reiki is based on Love and compassion for others not for self love which would seen to be very ego based. ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:09:20 +0000 Lines: 70 Message-ID: References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1074888818 14940 194.222.30.223 (23 Jan 2004 20:13:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:13:38 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13008 ShadowWolf writes >Ok lets go a step further with this. Yes :) >First I did not mean to imply that self treatment was not of value. >What I said was the "Learning" aspect was greater when done on others than >when done on the self. I think I'd still be contending that there is no greater well of learning in another person as opposed to myself. > >One doesn't lose out on self treatment when working on others either as we >receive at the same time we are sharing. Yes. But as we've discussed in the past, such sharing is often accompanied by use of personal energy. It's just not the same thing as having an hour (or how long) of time to oneself. >I have found ( for me at least) that the Reiki I receive when sharing does >more for me than when I do a self treatment (in most cases). I wonder whether we may not be looking at a difference of personality here ? While I run a busy practice, have family at home & a mother in hopsital on the other side of London, I value my solitude enormously. As an only child, time to simply "be with" myself is a very strong need of mine. Maybe for you, there are strong personal benefits from interacting with people ? > >Yes it is everyone's choice to work in Reiki as they choose but this person >whom I addressed was having obvious doubts about their ability to perform >hence the suggestion to go ahead and work on others for the obvious reasons. I appreciate that. I hope I haven't given the impression that I want to do anything other than explore what you were saying in a courteous & professional manner ? because it interested me :) > >I have yet to see any proof that working on the self improves the flow >especially if that flow is not shared. >Reiki is based on Love and compassion for others not for self love which >would seen to be very ego based. > > What about the argument that if you can't love yourself, then you can't hope to begin to know how to love other people ? I do know from bitter experience that those who do not care for themselves are clueless when it comes to caring for other people. Also, I think that the better we feel about ourselves, the more capable we are of sharing. Whether or not we *choose* to do so is another matter. I have to say, I don't give a hoot if this discussion ends up with us holding differing viewpoints. Reiki is an area where people can find that many opinions are held on what is ultimately a Mystery ... and even if those opinions oppose each other, then who ultimately is to say that both cannot be right ? -- Judy http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### Message-ID: <4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my> From: Reader Subject: Re: faith versus intention Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Reply-To: ab2yxNOSPAM@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:09:24 -0500 References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> Lines: 55 User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 219.95.0.131 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 219.95.0.131 X-Trace: news.tm.net.my 1074852392 219.95.0.131 (23 Jan 2004 18:06:32 +0800) Organization: TMnet Malaysia Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.71.34.3!newsfeed.cwix.com!news1.tm.net.my Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:12994 Dear All, I needed your opinions re sensing the energy flow. Q1. When I am channelling energy, my hands will feel warm and I sense pulses, like waves rolling from the direction of one hand to the other. Is this normal? What are your experience? Q2. The pulsing rate would sometimes slowed down. Is that an indication that it is time to move on to the next position? Thank you. Chang Sean White wrote: > Hi Sue, > I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something > important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first degree > initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. > > I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead a > demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think that > there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire the > ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel or > teacher can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as to > recieve the third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you down > greatly. > > As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as > initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy consistently, > you're not able to be directed how long to treat an area for example. > Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, distant healing and > attunements are close to useless. If you would have been my student, I > wouldn't have left these gaps in your training! > > I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the barest > amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what I've said > might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the skill so you're > better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the people you've spoken > with to develop the skill for the reasons I've mentioned. > > > Sean > > > > > suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: > ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:40:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1074904813 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:40:13 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:40:13 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feedeast.aleron.net!aleron.net!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13010 Oh, I love that word.....Mystery. For me it is something that cannot be readily answered but must be explored endlessly and sometimes the exploration yields what appear to be answers. However, those answers seem so easily to slip away. This thread could move into soul, spirituality, Oneness, etc. as Reiki-related, and I think Mystery covers it all.....for the moment. I like that. Reiki is a Mystery. The word also seems to give permission to probe at it, try it on for size, hold off on any judgement, road test it, and always just embrace it. Egads, I better quit before I start trying to add music!! :) Cheers Rich Judy Rigby wrote: > > > Reiki is an area where people can find > that many opinions are held on what is ultimately a Mystery ... and even > if those opinions oppose each other, then who ultimately is to say that > both cannot be right ? > -- > Judy > http://www.rigbys.demon.co.uk ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my> <40112ea3_1@news.tm.net.my> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 24 Jan 2004 11:30:49 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074906049 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (24 Jan 2004 11:30:49 +1050) Lines: 80 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!snewsf0.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13012 Hi again Chang, Alot of people have the ability to channel energy through their hands to some degree, but it's somewhat different to reiki, which uses an attunement initiation to boost the amount that a person can channel and receive. Strictly speaking what you're doing isn't "Reiki" or the "Usui Method" as you haven't recieved the attunements, however you are certainly channelling life force (or ki). The difference is that the attunement tunes your energy field in, so that you're recieving and broadcasting clearly. In some cases your ability to give may be greater than that of receiving, so that it can result in you depleting your energy (which isn't a good thing to do). If you're inexperienced and are not familiar with the techniques of energy healing, then you may also pick up other people's energy too which is also not very good. If you don't mind me giving you some more advice, perhaps wait until you've gotten your first attunement and then continue your practice. If on the other hand, you're interested in healing without using Reiki, then I'd suggest you learn a bit more about those techniques so you don't harm yourself. Where do you live? Someone here might know of a place where you can learn in person perhaps, or you mignt be able to get a teacher to initiate and teach you via distant attunement and email. Some people just offer the distant attunement, but in my opinion it's no substitute for being taught (even if by email) as well. Sean Reader wrote in news:40112ea3_1@news.tm.net.my: > Thanks, Sean, for your observations. > > I do not have a teacher. I am not attuned by anyone yet. So I have to > get advice from the Internet. I studied from websites and practice the > hatsurei-ho daily, do self-healing after that and use my wife for > practice. Wish I could have a group to study together. Reiki > practitioners are still a rare thing in my location. I am not even > sure what I did was Reiki, strictly speaking. Hence the 2 questions. > > > Regards, > > Chang > > Sean White wrote: >> Hi Chang, >> >> Q1 I've encountred pulsing before, but I wouldn't use the slowing >> down as the mark to change positions. People sense Reiki in a lot of >> different ways - the experience of it is different to each person, so >> there isn't a normal way, but the most common sensation is hot/cold >> or pushing or pulling onto the treated area. Pulsing, vibrating and >> so forth also happen, but usually are not the main sensation, but >> smaller sensations that coincide with the coarser sensations of the >> energy flow. Some people literally have their hands flick off the >> position when the flow has stopped without willing it whatsoever too. >> >> Q2 I would tend to wait until the pulsing itself stops completely, >> and then move on to the next one. >> If you're unsure, ask your teacher to check your hands when you're >> doing the positions. Sometimes one position can take a lot longer >> than another. Keep practicing and you'll get it. If you're in doubt >> to move to the next position, it's best to stay where you are and let >> the energy click over - at the worst they're getting a double helping >> and it will get you accustomed to when to move. Look out for the >> energy flow peaking for a while and then reducing. Some time after it >> reduces, the flow will stop - and that's the time to move. The energy >> can also change gears so to speak, and sometimes when this happens, >> you get vibrating and subtle sensations. >> >> Sean ###### From: Judy Rigby Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:52:40 +0000 Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: rigbys.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1074905749 29782 194.222.30.223 (24 Jan 2004 00:55:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:55:49 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!rigbys.demon.co.uk!judy Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13011 In article <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca>, Rich writes >Egads, I better quit before I start trying to add music!! :) Oh, singing is permissible so long as there is no rowdiness or lewdness involved ... -- Judy ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 01:20:30 GMT Lines: 67 Message-ID: <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka1aj.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.5.83) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074906939 22837912 207.69.5.83 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka1aj.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13014 Sean, what about people like Frank Arjava Petter? I forget which book he wrote it in, but ISTR that somewhere he mentioned not being able to sense Reiki until long after he had become a Master/Teacher and performed many attunements. Apparently his students felt he performed very powerful attunements, but he, himself did not feel the energy for some years. So there's at least one example of someone who can perform, and perform well, without being able to sense the energy. I don't have any particular axe to grind on the subject, but thought I would mention it to help "round out" the discussion. :-) Love and Light, Garry On 23 Jan 2004 17:56:15 +1050, Sean White wrote: >Hi Sue, > I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something >important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first degree >initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. > >I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead a >demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think that >there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire the >ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel or teacher >can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as to recieve the >third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you down greatly. > >As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as >initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy consistently, >you're not able to be directed how long to treat an area for example. >Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, distant healing and >attunements are close to useless. If you would have been my student, I >wouldn't have left these gaps in your training! > >I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the barest >amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what I've said >might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the skill so you're >better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the people you've spoken >with to develop the skill for the reasons I've mentioned. > > >Sean > > > > >suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: > >>> Sean >> >> I found learning tai chi helped increase my `feel' of the energy, and >> the type of acupressure I do has also. I do massage and end all my >> sessions with a `quicky' reiki handson. Sometimes I feel it flowing >> (like when the client really draws a lot) and sometimes not. I don't >> worry about it, I just trust that it's there. My reply to you was not >> so much about me, but to point out that there are some people who just >> don't sense the energy flow as readily as others. I've discussed that >> with other practioners. They don't worry about it either, feeling that >> those of us who don't feel it, don't need the `reassurance' that it's >> there and flowing the way other people do. >> >> sue >> > ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 01:27:21 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <4011c9af.2603509@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka1aj.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.5.83) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074907349 22567682 207.69.5.83 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka1aj.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13015 On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 00:52:40 +0000, Judy Rigby wrote: >In article <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca>, Rich writes > >>Egads, I better quit before I start trying to add music!! :) > >Oh, singing is permissible so long as there is no rowdiness or lewdness ^^^^^^^^ >involved ... >-- >Judy hah! Look who's talking! ;-) Garry ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4011CC2E.4674A1FA@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <9gJoFDAHsUEAVw$Q@rigbys.demon.co.uk> <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 01:37:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1074908223 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:37:03 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:37:03 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!proxad.net!proxad.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13018 Did you think I was gonna sing about a 'Miss Terri"? Judy Rigby wrote: > > In article <4011BEDC.CF736299@shaw.ca>, Rich writes > > >Egads, I better quit before I start trying to add music!! :) > > Oh, singing is permissible so long as there is no rowdiness or lewdness > involved ... > -- > Judy ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 24 Jan 2004 13:11:03 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074912063 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (24 Jan 2004 13:11:03 +1050) Lines: 129 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!snewsf0.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13024 Hi Garry, First off - lol, I'm not sure if Frank Arjava Petter is the standard in reiki excellence or if he performs well. I haven't met him or recieved treatments from him or his students, so I'm not sure if he's a good teacher or practitioner. He might be possibly high in the standard of book excellence though. I'm also not sure if his practitioners are a good judge of his attunements either, after all, practitioners are often easily impressed. There is after all a great deal of bias in that range of opinions. What I think is a good guide as to judging a teacher is whether their teacher teaches their students well and treats well, and whether the practitioners can treat well. In this, Frank Petter unfortunately musn't make the grade if what you say is correct. A teacher can't treat well if they can't sense the energy - they're just guessing through the treatment, and that's just doesn't cut the mustard. If they can't treat well, then how can they then teach well? Just imagine it Garry, you're treating someone according to whatever hand position sequence you're a fan of, and you just don't know what the energy is telling you to do. The energy might be needed on the heart position, or the kidneys for a long time - and here you are as dumb as mud, looking at your watch as skipping past by looking at the clock. The treatment might need to be much longer and you're just going through the motions. That's just hopeless. I mean Petter has published a lot on interesting aspects to technique and yet it seems no good if he lacks such simple skills. I also don't think what I'm saying is too harsh, because sincerely, I've never met anyone who can't learn to sense the energy just by the smallest amount of practice. I've managed to teach all my students it - so why can't Frank Petter learn it and teach it? I mean even Tai Chi and Aikido students etc can be taught to sense energy - it's not a big secret or a skill that takes decades. All the first degree students I've ever taught can learn it by treating people for less than a day. I understand that some people might not be fussed in sensing the energy, but to me it's a glaring ommision in the skills base as a practitioner. I personally wouldn't initiate someone to the second level if they came from another teacher without making sure they had developed it. I certainly wouldn't initiate or teach a master if they hadn't learnt it. In my opinion they're hardly a complete "master" of Reiki if they can't even sense what they're supposed to be teaching. Sean gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in news:4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET: > Sean, what about people like Frank Arjava Petter? I forget which book > he wrote it in, but ISTR that somewhere he mentioned not being able to > sense Reiki until long after he had become a Master/Teacher and > performed many attunements. Apparently his students felt he performed > very powerful attunements, but he, himself did not feel the energy for > some years. So there's at least one example of someone who can > perform, and perform well, without being able to sense the energy. > > I don't have any particular axe to grind on the subject, but thought I > would mention it to help "round out" the discussion. :-) > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > On 23 Jan 2004 17:56:15 +1050, Sean White wrote: > >>Hi Sue, >> I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something >>important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first >>degree initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. >> >>I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead a >>demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think >>that there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire >>the ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel >>or teacher can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as >>to recieve the third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you down >>greatly. >> >>As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as >>initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy consistently, >>you're not able to be directed how long to treat an area for example. >>Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, distant healing and >>attunements are close to useless. If you would have been my student, I >>wouldn't have left these gaps in your training! >> >>I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the >>barest amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what >>I've said might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the skill >>so you're better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the people >>you've spoken with to develop the skill for the reasons I've >>mentioned. >> >> >>Sean >> >> >> >> >>suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: >> >>>> Sean >>> >>> I found learning tai chi helped increase my `feel' of the energy, >>> and the type of acupressure I do has also. I do massage and end all >>> my sessions with a `quicky' reiki handson. Sometimes I feel it >>> flowing (like when the client really draws a lot) and sometimes not. >>> I don't worry about it, I just trust that it's there. My reply to >>> you was not so much about me, but to point out that there are some >>> people who just don't sense the energy flow as readily as others. >>> I've discussed that with other practioners. They don't worry about >>> it either, feeling that those of us who don't feel it, don't need >>> the `reassurance' that it's there and flowing the way other people >>> do. >>> >>> sue >>> >> > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 06:31:53 +0200 Lines: 131 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-17.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Jan 2004 06:33:34 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-17.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-17.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13025 "Sean White" wrote in message news:Xns947A8B931826Csean@203.16.214.244... > Just imagine it Garry, you're treating someone according to whatever > hand position sequence you're a fan of, and you just don't know what the > energy is telling you to do. The energy might be needed on the heart > position, or the kidneys for a long time - and here you are as dumb as > mud, looking at your watch as skipping past by looking at the clock. The > treatment might need to be much longer and you're just going through the > motions. That's just hopeless. Hmmm. So the Reiki energy does NOT know on its own where to go and where it is needed? It has to tell the therapist first who will then do his thing accordingly? This will puncture a few of our practitioners' beliefs. Read ShadowWolf's post from in another branch of this thread taking a position that is virtually the opposite of yours. And what about distant healings and sending Reiki for the "good of all", or "the best result", without any focus? What does "going through the motions" mean when some people claim that they can do Reiki while watching TV or chatting with friends? These were all topics which came up in this forum fairly recently. For me, none of them resulted in any conclusion, worse, it seems to me that none of them resulted in much of an understanding or insight either. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > I mean even Tai Chi and Aikido students etc can be taught to sense > energy - it's not a big secret or a skill that takes decades. All the > first degree students I've ever taught can learn it by treating people > for less than a day. > > I understand that some people might not be fussed in sensing the energy, > but to me it's a glaring ommision in the skills base as a practitioner. > I personally wouldn't initiate someone to the second level if they came > from another teacher without making sure they had developed it. I > certainly wouldn't initiate or teach a master if they hadn't learnt it. > In my opinion they're hardly a complete "master" of Reiki if they can't > even sense what they're supposed to be teaching. > > Sean > > > > > gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in > news:4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET: > > > Sean, what about people like Frank Arjava Petter? I forget which book > > he wrote it in, but ISTR that somewhere he mentioned not being able to > > sense Reiki until long after he had become a Master/Teacher and > > performed many attunements. Apparently his students felt he performed > > very powerful attunements, but he, himself did not feel the energy for > > some years. So there's at least one example of someone who can > > perform, and perform well, without being able to sense the energy. > > > > I don't have any particular axe to grind on the subject, but thought I > > would mention it to help "round out" the discussion. :-) > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > > > On 23 Jan 2004 17:56:15 +1050, Sean White wrote: > > > >>Hi Sue, > >> I personally disagree quite strongly that it's not something > >>important and I don't think lacking a very simple skill that first > >>degree initiates learn is a badge of pride in any way. > >> > >>I don't see energetic sentivity as a form of reassurance but instead a > >>demonstration of competence brought about by good teaching. I think > >>that there's a great deal of very good reasons why one should acquire > >>the ability at the very first degree. Without the ability, a channel > >>or teacher can't treat or initiate properly. If you've gone so far as > >>to recieve the third degree, I feel that your teacher has let you down > >>greatly. > >> > >>As I said, it increases their effectiveness as channels, as well as > >>initiations and proxy treatments. Without sensing energy consistently, > >>you're not able to be directed how long to treat an area for example. > >>Furthermore, without training energy sensitivity, distant healing and > >>attunements are close to useless. If you would have been my student, I > >>wouldn't have left these gaps in your training! > >> > >>I've never met anyone who can't learn it, in fact, with even the > >>barest amount of effort it can be easily acquired. I hope that what > >>I've said might convince you that it's worthwhile developing the skill > >>so you're better at Reiki. Perhaps you might also encorage the people > >>you've spoken with to develop the skill for the reasons I've > >>mentioned. > >> > >> > >>Sean > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>suzee wrote in news:40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com: > >> > >>>> Sean > >>> > >>> I found learning tai chi helped increase my `feel' of the energy, > >>> and the type of acupressure I do has also. I do massage and end all > >>> my sessions with a `quicky' reiki handson. Sometimes I feel it > >>> flowing (like when the client really draws a lot) and sometimes not. > >>> I don't worry about it, I just trust that it's there. My reply to > >>> you was not so much about me, but to point out that there are some > >>> people who just don't sense the energy flow as readily as others. > >>> I've discussed that with other practioners. They don't worry about > >>> it either, feeling that those of us who don't feel it, don't need > >>> the `reassurance' that it's there and flowing the way other people > >>> do. > >>> > >>> sue > >>> > >> > > > > > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 24 Jan 2004 16:45:08 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074924908 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (24 Jan 2004 16:45:08 +1050) Lines: 110 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!203.109.252.33.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13026 Hi Peter, The energy certainly can move to where it is needed, but it's not absorbed readily unless it is indeed needed on a particular position. The positions generally overlap energy centres and organs and their connections, hence why there are many of them and not just one sole position. This is also the reason why there in fact are many positions (whatever system of positions you teach and use as there are a lot of variations nowadays). As an example, a person may have kidney problems, and so the energy is likely absorbed around the kidneys. One can try to treat the kidneys through the head positions or perhaps even the feet, but the body will not absorb the reiki for that position and then pass it on. Instead, it will take the energy and pass it around the local area being treated. Then the energy will switch off. The kidneys will remain untreated. There are ways that the energy flows on, but this isn't straightforward and and isn't an efficient way to do it at all. If you remain in that position, it will eventally start to flow again, and then the area gets another dose of energy. I'm well aware that the Reiki will move, however the energy will always go to the most direct path to whatever is depleted or where it can be held. It's much like water in that it takes the easiest path. There are lots of books about ki that can explain the principles of how it flows through the body and where it is drawn if you want to read more about it. If you don't believe me, then ask yourself this - if Reiki energy can travel anywhere at all, then why don't we just have one hand position? The answer is that the body can only readily aborb as per it's particular need in a particular place. If you think watching television or chatting away is the way to treat people, then your energy will be unfocussed and weak flowing. By focusing on the energy, it develops sesitivity, and also enhances the flow, thus providing more power. If television was okay, then the televsion would be the reiki symbols. The fact is, you're meant to focus on the symbols (beyond level two), and the energy. If you don't believe me - just translate the distant Reiki symbol. It says loosely "The Original Self is the temple of the present heart/mind." Essentially, it means "PAY ATTENTION"! It's not just something you chant mindlessly with your mouth, as I'm sure your're aware with the Nebutsu. I think doing that would be much like watching television while having sex. Some people might even chat away during initiations or watch televsion too then I guess - but that's just poor technique that lacks respect. It's not for me that's for sure. Sending reiki for the "good of all" or for the "best result" are very nice ideas, but not necessary. Such things demonstrate people's unfamilarity with the energy and lack of experience working with it. These people should perhaps practice more and draw conclusions later. As a counter example, one can send Reiki and wish that the person will be sick or die - and it just won't happen. Instead the energy will benefit the person regardless of intent. Reiki is in itself life force energy, as you likely know, it literally means "universal life energy". It does not harm people nor can it, nor does it need to be invoked in the way a magic spell would. The terms for the good of all etc, are modern revivalist-Wiccan invocations placed at the end of spells - similar ones are "with harm to none, so mote it be, for the greatest good etc.." If you someone doesn't believe that reiki will only heal and never harm, then go and ask a chi-gong practitioner if they need to pray that the ki energy that they use doesn't harm anyone. They'll tell you that such an idea is just silly. Drawing or stealing ki to harm someone is done in martial arts, but it's not possible if you're giving it. By it's very definition, it can not harm, it is the universal energy of life. Life indeed does know it's needs. Sean ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:50:51 GMT Lines: 97 From: suzee Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!peer02.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13027 Sean, There you go again... Mustn't... Can't.... all these judgement words you're throwing into reiki. Didn't *your* teacher ever teach you the first rule of reiki? 1. There are no rules. Not everyone does things the way you do, we each do things, feel and sense things, in a different way. Because we're unique individuals, not cookie cutter clones. Beginners may need the reassurance of a set sequence because they're always afraid of not doing it `right'. I think, if the instructor is good, he/she will teach a sequence, but also tell them as they develop experience, they can do things which feel right for them, not just blindly follow what they were taught (which some do). One thing that's taught in reiki is the energy goes where it's needed. So why is there `need' to be able to sense what area needs energy? As far as length of treatment time, wouldn't it just keep flowing to an area as long as needed, regardless of whether the hands are on that area, or have moved to another position? Escpecially if you set an intention (ask?) for it to keep on flowing as long as needed. Yes, your words are harsh, as are most of the statements you've posted to this group since you first began posting here. You seem to feel you're right, and others are wrong. Well, you're right for you; the rest of us have to figure out what's right for us. sue Sean White wrote: > > Hi Garry, > First off - lol, I'm not sure if Frank Arjava Petter is the > standard in reiki excellence or if he performs well. I haven't met him > or recieved treatments from him or his students, so I'm not sure if he's > a good teacher or practitioner. He might be possibly high in the > standard of book excellence though. > > I'm also not sure if his practitioners are a good judge of his > attunements either, after all, practitioners are often easily impressed. > There is after all a great deal of bias in that range of opinions. > > What I think is a good guide as to judging a teacher is whether their > teacher teaches their students well and treats well, and whether the > practitioners can treat well. > > In this, Frank Petter unfortunately musn't make the grade if what you > say is correct. A teacher can't treat well if they can't sense the > energy - they're just guessing through the treatment, and that's just > doesn't cut the mustard. If they can't treat well, then how can they > then teach well? > > Just imagine it Garry, you're treating someone according to whatever > hand position sequence you're a fan of, and you just don't know what the > energy is telling you to do. The energy might be needed on the heart > position, or the kidneys for a long time - and here you are as dumb as > mud, looking at your watch as skipping past by looking at the clock. The > treatment might need to be much longer and you're just going through the > motions. That's just hopeless. I mean Petter has published a lot on > interesting aspects to technique and yet it seems no good if he lacks > such simple skills. > > I also don't think what I'm saying is too harsh, because sincerely, I've > never met anyone who can't learn to sense the energy just by the > smallest amount of practice. I've managed to teach all my students it - > so why can't Frank Petter learn it and teach it? > > I mean even Tai Chi and Aikido students etc can be taught to sense > energy - it's not a big secret or a skill that takes decades. All the > first degree students I've ever taught can learn it by treating people > for less than a day. > > I understand that some people might not be fussed in sensing the energy, > but to me it's a glaring ommision in the skills base as a practitioner. > I personally wouldn't initiate someone to the second level if they came > from another teacher without making sure they had developed it. I > certainly wouldn't initiate or teach a master if they hadn't learnt it. > In my opinion they're hardly a complete "master" of Reiki if they can't > even sense what they're supposed to be teaching. > > Sean > > gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in > news:4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET: > > > Sean, what about people like Frank Arjava Petter? I forget which book > > he wrote it in, but ISTR that somewhere he mentioned not being able to > > sense Reiki until long after he had become a Master/Teacher and > > performed many attunements. Apparently his students felt he performed > > very powerful attunements, but he, himself did not feel the energy for > > some years. So there's at least one example of someone who can > > perform, and perform well, without being able to sense the energy. > > > > I don't have any particular axe to grind on the subject, but thought I > > would mention it to help "round out" the discussion. :-) > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 11:57:39 GMT Lines: 91 From: suzee Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!167.206.3.102.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13028 Sean White wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > The energy certainly can move to where it is needed, but it's not > absorbed readily unless it is indeed needed on a particular position. How on earth do you know this? Oh right.... you can sense it. > The positions generally overlap energy centres and organs and their > connections, hence why there are many of them and not just one sole > position. This is also the reason why there in fact are many positions > (whatever system of positions you teach and use as there are a lot of > variations nowadays). > > As an example, a person may have kidney problems, and so the energy is > likely absorbed around the kidneys. One can try to treat the kidneys > through the head positions or perhaps even the feet, but the body will > not absorb the reiki for that position and then pass it on. Instead, it > will take the energy and pass it around the local area being treated. > Then the energy will switch off. The kidneys will remain untreated. > There are ways that the energy flows on, but this isn't straightforward > and and isn't an efficient way to do it at all. If you remain in that > position, it will eventally start to flow again, and then the area gets > another dose of energy. > > I'm well aware that the Reiki will move, however the energy will always > go to the most direct path to whatever is depleted or where it can be > held. It's much like water in that it takes the easiest path. There are > lots of books about ki that can explain the principles of how it flows > through the body and where it is drawn if you want to read more about > it. > > If you don't believe me, then ask yourself this - if Reiki energy can > travel anywhere at all, then why don't we just have one hand position? > The answer is that the body can only readily aborb as per it's > particular need in a particular place. That's not true. The question has come up many times, people asking why they can't just hold one site. They can, and the receiver feels all the better for it. > > If you think watching television or chatting away is the way to treat > people, then your energy will be unfocussed and weak flowing. By > focusing on the energy, it develops sesitivity, and also enhances the > flow, thus providing more power. If television was okay, then the > televsion would be the reiki symbols. The fact is, you're meant to focus > on the symbols (beyond level two), and the energy. If you don't believe > me - just translate the distant Reiki symbol. It says loosely "The > Original Self is the temple of the present heart/mind." Essentially, it > means "PAY ATTENTION"! It's not just something you chant mindlessly with > your mouth, as I'm sure your're aware with the Nebutsu. > > I think doing that would be much like watching television while having > sex. Some people might even chat away during initiations or watch > televsion too then I guess - but that's just poor technique that lacks > respect. It's not for me that's for sure. > > Sending reiki for the "good of all" or for the "best result" are very > nice ideas, but not necessary. Such things demonstrate people's > unfamilarity with the energy and lack of experience working with it. > These people should perhaps practice more and draw conclusions later. As > a counter example, one can send Reiki and wish that the person will be > sick or die - and it just won't happen. Instead the energy will benefit > the person regardless of intent. > > Reiki is in itself life force energy, as you likely know, it literally > means "universal life energy". It does not harm people nor can it, nor > does it need to be invoked in the way a magic spell would. The terms for > the good of all etc, are modern revivalist-Wiccan invocations placed at > the end of spells - similar ones are "with harm to none, so mote it be, > for the greatest good etc.." > > If you someone doesn't believe that reiki will only heal and never harm, > then go and ask a chi-gong practitioner if they need to pray that the ki > energy that they use doesn't harm anyone. They'll tell you that such an > idea is just silly. Drawing or stealing ki to harm someone is done in > martial arts, but it's not possible if you're giving it. And they're not using the reiki `system' either... > By it's very definition, it can not harm, it is the universal energy of > life. Life indeed does know it's needs. And so does the energy. But I'm glad you have all the answers, Sean. It's nice to know there's someone here we can ask when we're not sure of something. sue ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:00:21 GMT Lines: 44 From: suzee Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13031 Garry Williams wrote: > > On 24 Jan 2004 16:45:08 +1050, Sean White wrote: > >If you think watching television or chatting away is the way to treat > >people, then your energy will be unfocussed and weak flowing. By > >focusing on the energy, it develops sesitivity, and also enhances the > >flow, thus providing more power. If television was okay, then the > >televsion would be the reiki symbols. The fact is, you're meant to focus > >on the symbols (beyond level two), and the energy. If you don't believe > >me - just translate the distant Reiki symbol. It says loosely "The > >Original Self is the temple of the present heart/mind." Essentially, it > >means "PAY ATTENTION"! It's not just something you chant mindlessly with > >your mouth, as I'm sure your're aware with the Nebutsu. > > I would prefer to be worked on by someone who is paying attention, and > so pay attention when I'm working on someone else, if for no other > reason than simple respect. Also I personally find it easier to to do > Reiki when I'm focused. However, that said, I remember a time when I > was at an exhibition with some Reiki friends and I had been helping > out in some ways which did nothing to help out my back. While standing > in this crowded exhibition hall and carrying on a conversation, one of > my friends lightly touched me with two fingers and focused Reiki on > the aching spots and within seconds, the aches and pains melted away, > and without missing a beat in our conversation. The other day I met with a friend and gave reiki to her hand for an injured finger. We sat chatting away for a few minutes, during which time, we both felt a warmth... whether from reiki or just holding hands, I can't say. She called the next day to say it was *much* better and finally felt as though it was healing. She wants more and we're going to get together again this weekend, no doubt chattering away again. And another time, I was in a pub talking with an acquaintance who asked what reiki was like, he'd heard of it, but didn't know what it was. I hopped off my stool, found that his shoulders were tense, put my hands on them and proceeded to zap him with it. After a couple minutes, we both felt his muscles relax and he thought it was very cool. It was. You can pay attention or not, probably being focused is better, but the main thing still seems to be intention, which is what I've learned from my experience in using reiki. sue ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 13:04:25 GMT Lines: 118 Message-ID: <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka029.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.0.73) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074949173 22746608 207.69.0.73 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka029.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13030 On 24 Jan 2004 16:45:08 +1050, Sean White wrote: >Hi Peter, > >The energy certainly can move to where it is needed, but it's not >absorbed readily unless it is indeed needed on a particular position. >The positions generally overlap energy centres and organs and their >connections, hence why there are many of them and not just one sole >position. This is also the reason why there in fact are many positions >(whatever system of positions you teach and use as there are a lot of >variations nowadays). Then the meridian system is all washed up--energy just doesn't move along those foolish old wive's tales meridians? I know a few shiatsu and acupuncture practitioners that might disagree with that. My experience has been that the whole body is interconnected, and if you can't get to a particular position, it's no big deal, just leave your hands where you *can* reach and either use intention to direct the flow to the spot you want to reach (if you're just not confident that it will make it on its own), or just trust that they're going to get what they need through the positions that you can reach. As for reasons why there are many positions, I'm not convinced yet. What about the Japanese technique of letting your hands be drawn to the one, perfect treatment spot that takes care of the problem, instead of doing multiple positions from head to toe as it is done in Western styles? The Japanese work more on developing their intuition and sensitivity than we do in the Western styles. >As an example, a person may have kidney problems, and so the energy is >likely absorbed around the kidneys. One can try to treat the kidneys >through the head positions or perhaps even the feet, but the body will >not absorb the reiki for that position and then pass it on. Instead, it >will take the energy and pass it around the local area being treated. >Then the energy will switch off. The kidneys will remain untreated. >There are ways that the energy flows on, but this isn't straightforward >and and isn't an efficient way to do it at all. If you remain in that >position, it will eventally start to flow again, and then the area gets >another dose of energy. I'd like to see demonstrable proof of that, again, since acupuncturists and shiatsu practitioners do indeed use positions on the meridians associated with an organ that may be far away from that organ, or might even be associated with a different organ, depending on the patient's diagnosis. IM far-from-expert O, you're doing too much diagnosing and believing too much in the necessity of you and your control. I was taught to just pay attention to what the energy is doing and telling you and follow its lead. >I'm well aware that the Reiki will move, however the energy will always >go to the most direct path to whatever is depleted or where it can be >held. It's much like water in that it takes the easiest path. There are >lots of books about ki that can explain the principles of how it flows >through the body and where it is drawn if you want to read more about >it. Exactly, which is why I'm confused as to why you subscribe to what you wrote in the first couple of paragraphs. >If you don't believe me, then ask yourself this - if Reiki energy can >travel anywhere at all, then why don't we just have one hand position? >The answer is that the body can only readily aborb as per it's >particular need in a particular place. ...which changes from one person to the next or one session to the next. But which does not mean that the person cannot be treated, and treated well, by doing just one position, according to the Japanese technique mentioned above. Of course it will be a *different* one position in every case. >If you think watching television or chatting away is the way to treat >people, then your energy will be unfocussed and weak flowing. By >focusing on the energy, it develops sesitivity, and also enhances the >flow, thus providing more power. If television was okay, then the >televsion would be the reiki symbols. The fact is, you're meant to focus >on the symbols (beyond level two), and the energy. If you don't believe >me - just translate the distant Reiki symbol. It says loosely "The >Original Self is the temple of the present heart/mind." Essentially, it >means "PAY ATTENTION"! It's not just something you chant mindlessly with >your mouth, as I'm sure your're aware with the Nebutsu. I would prefer to be worked on by someone who is paying attention, and so pay attention when I'm working on someone else, if for no other reason than simple respect. Also I personally find it easier to to do Reiki when I'm focused. However, that said, I remember a time when I was at an exhibition with some Reiki friends and I had been helping out in some ways which did nothing to help out my back. While standing in this crowded exhibition hall and carrying on a conversation, one of my friends lightly touched me with two fingers and focused Reiki on the aching spots and within seconds, the aches and pains melted away, and without missing a beat in our conversation. >If you someone doesn't believe that reiki will only heal and never harm, >then go and ask a chi-gong practitioner if they need to pray that the ki >energy that they use doesn't harm anyone. They'll tell you that such an >idea is just silly. Drawing or stealing ki to harm someone is done in >martial arts, but it's not possible if you're giving it. Martial arts and qigong practitioners, at least of the Chinese variety, seem to have different notions of how qi can be used than what we do in Reiki. I'm thinking in particular of the dim mak "death touch" art. The practitioner uses knowledge of meridians, acupuncture points and the body's cycles to "seal" the chosen attack point, resulting in damage or death to the person attacked. They don't hang around sucking up qi like some sort of energy vampire, instead the attack is a single, explosive *release* of the practioner's qi, not drawing or stealing the victim's qi. Can you relate this to what you are saying above? Love and Light, Garry ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 00:01:50 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074951110 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 00:01:50 +1050) Lines: 88 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13032 suzee wrote in news:c188e901fb17da0d0c90b8642e53778d@news.teranews.com: > Sean, > > There you go again... Mustn't... Can't.... all these judgement words > you're throwing into reiki. Didn't *your* teacher ever teach you the > first rule of reiki? 1. There are no rules. Your teacher must have been an anarchist with a taste for truisms - I learnt skills like sensing energy, distant attunemtments, how to treat people etc - stuff you're not interested in apparently. Judgements are quite common, such as your above paragraph dearie, they're also nothing to be afraid of either. It's very important to hear people disagree with us from time to time - we don't have to agree, but it leads to fruitful discussion and new ideas. It's quite common in philosophy - and it's called "debate". Democratic countries even go so far as to fight wars so that people can do it. > > Not everyone does things the way you do, we each do things, feel and > sense things, in a different way. Because we're unique individuals, not > cookie cutter clones. Beginners may need the reassurance of a set > sequence because they're always afraid of not doing it `right'. I think, > if the instructor is good, he/she will teach a sequence, but also tell > them as they develop experience, they can do things which feel right for > them, not just blindly follow what they were taught (which some do). Your ideas sound okay here but hopefully your comments apply to learning to actually have the skills to determine your own way. Sensing energy is one of these ways. One > thing that's taught in reiki is the energy goes where it's needed. So > why is there `need' to be able to sense what area needs energy? As far > as length of treatment time, wouldn't it just keep flowing to an area as > long as needed, regardless of whether the hands are on that area, or > have moved to another position? Escpecially if you set an intention > (ask?) for it to keep on flowing as long as needed. One thing that apparently wasn't taught to you dear was how to practice Reiki well. If you're a beginner, that's fine, but really you shouldn't be so proud of your ignorance or make excuses for it. > > Yes, your words are harsh, as are most of the statements you've posted > to this group since you first began posting here. Perhaps you need to treat yourself more as you're rather fragile to just disagreements about technique. You seem to feel > you're right, and others are wrong. You do indeed have a talent for stating the obvious. I certainly do think I'm right and others are wrong and that's really okay to do. OR IS IT WRONG PERHAPS? If it is I think you've argued yourself into a paradox. If you're happy to lack basic skills, then in all sincerity and with love, I truly respect your wishes, but it doesn't make your low standards mine. Well, you're right for you; the rest > of us have to figure out what's right for us. Indeed you do, and that's really okay and I wish you well. Nonethless, it doesn't diminish my opinion, which is what I've expressed and no more than that. Are you perhaps having a bad day Sue, or does it frighten you when people express their opinions and they don't agree with you? It's okay to not agree with people you know. Sean ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 08:48:42 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 64 Message-ID: <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm851-15.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13033 Sean White wrote: > Your teacher must have been an anarchist with a taste for truisms - I > learnt skills like sensing energy, distant attunemtments, how to treat > people etc - stuff you're not interested in apparently. Judgements are > quite common, such as your above paragraph dearie, they're also nothing > to be afraid of either. It's very important to hear people disagree with > us from time to time - we don't have to agree, but it leads to fruitful > discussion and new ideas. It's quite common in philosophy - and it's > called "debate". Democratic countries even go so far as to fight wars so > that people can do it. My teacher has been this group and experienced practioners on mailing lists. Many of them feel much the same way. Are they anarchists or heretics? Yes, they're probably thought so by some. > Your ideas sound okay here but hopefully your comments apply to learning > to actually have the skills to determine your own way. Sensing energy is > one of these ways. One, yes. But perhaps not as important as you seem to believe. > One thing that apparently wasn't taught to you dear was how to practice > Reiki well. If you're a beginner, that's fine, but really you shouldn't > be so proud of your ignorance or make excuses for it. I don't make excuses because I'm not ignorant. Nor am I a beginner. I've been practicing reiki for nearly six years. > > You seem to feel you're right, and others are wrong. > > You do indeed have a talent for stating the obvious. I certainly do > think I'm right and others are wrong and that's really okay to do. OR IS > IT WRONG PERHAPS? If it is I think you've argued yourself into a > paradox. Excuse me, I should have said that you believe your way is the *only* way. > If you're happy to lack basic skills, then in all sincerity and with > love, I truly respect your wishes, but it doesn't make your low > standards mine. What basic skills? Oh, sensing energy. I didn't say I don't completely, just not always. > Well, you're right for you; the rest > > of us have to figure out what's right for us. > > Indeed you do, and that's really okay and I wish you well. Nonethless, > it doesn't diminish my opinion, which is what I've expressed and no more > than that. Are you perhaps having a bad day Sue, or does it frighten you > when people express their opinions and they don't agree with you? It's > okay to not agree with people you know. I agree with the last statement. It's your arrogant attitude of dismissing any who don't teach or practice the way you do as inferior that I take exception to. That's much more than disagreeing with another opinion. sue ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 00:47:29 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074953849 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 00:47:29 +1050) Lines: 245 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!stargate.gts.cz!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13035 gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in news:401263e8.1915648 @news.Individual.NET: > On 24 Jan 2004 16:45:08 +1050, Sean White wrote: > >>Hi Garry, >> >>The energy certainly can move to where it is needed, but it's not >>absorbed readily unless it is indeed needed on a particular position. >>The positions generally overlap energy centres and organs and their >>connections, hence why there are many of them and not just one sole >>position. This is also the reason why there in fact are many positions >>(whatever system of positions you teach and use as there are a lot of >>variations nowadays). > > Then the meridian system is all washed up--energy just doesn't move > along those foolish old wive's tales meridians? I know a few shiatsu > and acupuncture practitioners that might disagree with that. They do indeed move along the meridians, no arguement here. This ki circulation is not instantaneous and does not necessarily energise the correct area however, it goes through all sorts of cycles according to the active meridian system and the time of day. A TCM doctor will tell you - perhaps ask them about it. > > My experience has been that the whole body is interconnected, and if > you can't get to a particular position, it's no big deal, just leave > your hands where you *can* reach and either use intention to direct > the flow to the spot you want to reach (if you're just not confident > that it will make it on its own), or just trust that they're going to > get what they need through the positions that you can reach. I don't agree. As I said earlier, the body can only absorb what it can take for that particular area. It can click over, but it's not very efficient. It can circulate excess too - but it get branched off into other meridians and so forth. It doesn't harm the person, but you're best off being guided by the energy. > > As for reasons why there are many positions, I'm not convinced yet. > What about the Japanese technique of letting your hands be drawn to > the one, perfect treatment spot that takes care of the problem, > instead of doing multiple positions from head to toe as it is done in > Western styles? The Japanese work more on developing their intuition > and sensitivity than we do in the Western styles. EXACTLY!, and I prefer to work that way myself. Why do you think your hands are drawn to that one particular spot? Why not treat any old position and not bother - because it is more effective to be drawn to the particular area. That's why! Of course, one can use the stepping positions (whichever set you like), but it's no substitute for actually sensing the flow and being drawn to the area that needs it most. I'm advocating developing the skills that you're talking about. It's fine that people don't have them initially, but I'm suggesting that they can be easily developed with a bit of persistence. I'm not advocating strict adherence to the various hand positions, but am instead saying that unless you can sense the energy flow in those positions, or later on develop energy sensitivity to work "free form", then you're going to miss areas that have a much greater need than others. This means that your not really competent as a practitioner. You're flying blind. > >>As an example, a person may have kidney problems, and so the energy is >>likely absorbed around the kidneys. One can try to treat the kidneys >>through the head positions or perhaps even the feet, but the body will >>not absorb the reiki for that position and then pass it on. Instead, it >>will take the energy and pass it around the local area being treated. >>Then the energy will switch off. The kidneys will remain untreated. >>There are ways that the energy flows on, but this isn't straightforward >>and and isn't an efficient way to do it at all. If you remain in that >>position, it will eventally start to flow again, and then the area gets >>another dose of energy. > > I'd like to see demonstrable proof of that, again, since > acupuncturists and shiatsu practitioners do indeed use positions on > the meridians associated with an organ that may be far away from that > organ, or might even be associated with a different organ, depending > on the patient's diagnosis. Indeed they do, and they can chart the meridians quite readily. In fact, you can use your fingers and flow Reiki into the meridian yourself if you know where they are, however that doesn't mean that by just placing your hands any old place you'll give the person a sufficient treatment. The positions are there for a reason, the skill of sensitivity is there for a reason, the free form style of intuitive hand placing is there for a reason. It's not just for laughs - it makes the treatment much more effective in terms of the time you spend treating and the amount of energy you give them. Remember, some areas draw a lot more energy then others - that means if you find those spots, you can give them more energy. It might be on a meridian, yes quite possibly. I'll give you an example as proof is not possible - we're dealing with intangable energy after all: If you spend one hour just stepping through hand positions blindly, the person will recieve so much energy. whatever the amount, it will be a certain amount - one hours worth of stepping through blindly. Such a person would just watch the clock and estimate. HOWEVER if you spend the same hour concentrating on areas that you are drawn to, and moving off areas that don't require much energy, you will have infact given the person ALOT more energy. Why? Because the area absorbs the energy depending on it's need. It might be the case that the person is not drawing it directly from the injured area - it might be that as you say, it corresponds to a meridian a far way away from the body, however - your energy sensitivity will mean that you address the energy need properly by giving the area what it can take. It will be a more effective treatment. > > IM far-from-expert O, you're doing too much diagnosing and believing > too much in the necessity of you and your control. I was taught to > just pay attention to what the energy is doing and telling you and > follow its lead. I agree completely with what you're saying - but following it's lead means going to where it's needed but letting your hands be guided to the area. > >>I'm well aware that the Reiki will move, however the energy will always >>go to the most direct path to whatever is depleted or where it can be >>held. It's much like water in that it takes the easiest path. There are >>lots of books about ki that can explain the principles of how it flows >>through the body and where it is drawn if you want to read more about >>it. > > Exactly, which is why I'm confused as to why you subscribe to what you > wrote in the first couple of paragraphs. Perhaps read what I've written above Peter - I'm not advocating that Reiki should be controlled or that hand positions are king, but that developing sensitivity to Reiki is a very worthwhile thing to do as it makes you a better practitioner. Perhaps I'm not clear in my expression, but I'm surprised that I've offended people by saying so! > >>If you don't believe me, then ask yourself this - if Reiki energy can >>travel anywhere at all, then why don't we just have one hand position? >>The answer is that the body can only readily aborb as per it's >>particular need in a particular place. > > ...which changes from one person to the next or one session to the > next. But which does not mean that the person cannot be treated, and > treated well, by doing just one position, according to the Japanese > technique mentioned above. Of course it will be a *different* one > position in every case. I agree - my point is that without energy sensitivity, the stepping hands are a beginner's tool. One can indeed focus on just one spot, but to do so one needs to have sensitivity to energy. Treating that one area is not a full treatment however. > >>If you think watching television or chatting away is the way to treat >>people, then your energy will be unfocussed and weak flowing. By >>focusing on the energy, it develops sesitivity, and also enhances the >>flow, thus providing more power. If television was okay, then the >>televsion would be the reiki symbols. The fact is, you're meant to focus >>on the symbols (beyond level two), and the energy. If you don't believe >>me - just translate the distant Reiki symbol. It says loosely "The >>Original Self is the temple of the present heart/mind." Essentially, it >>means "PAY ATTENTION"! It's not just something you chant mindlessly with >>your mouth, as I'm sure your're aware with the Nebutsu. > > I would prefer to be worked on by someone who is paying attention, and > so pay attention when I'm working on someone else, if for no other > reason than simple respect. Also I personally find it easier to to do > Reiki when I'm focused. However, that said, I remember a time when I > was at an exhibition with some Reiki friends and I had been helping > out in some ways which did nothing to help out my back. While standing > in this crowded exhibition hall and carrying on a conversation, one of > my friends lightly touched me with two fingers and focused Reiki on > the aching spots and within seconds, the aches and pains melted away, > and without missing a beat in our conversation. I'm sure, but it's still in no way good practice. I wouldn't be surprised if the person had been perhaps treating someone previously when they were focussed perhaps? > > > >>If you someone doesn't believe that reiki will only heal and never harm, >>then go and ask a chi-gong practitioner if they need to pray that the ki >>energy that they use doesn't harm anyone. They'll tell you that such an >>idea is just silly. Drawing or stealing ki to harm someone is done in >>martial arts, but it's not possible if you're giving it. > > Martial arts and qigong practitioners, at least of the Chinese > variety, seem to have different notions of how qi can be used than > what we do in Reiki. I'm thinking in particular of the dim mak "death > touch" art. The practitioner uses knowledge of meridians, acupuncture > points and the body's cycles to "seal" the chosen attack point, > resulting in damage or death to the person attacked. They don't hang > around sucking up qi like some sort of energy vampire, instead the > attack is a single, explosive *release* of the practioner's qi, not > drawing or stealing the victim's qi. Can you relate this to what you > are saying above? Quite often they actually do use the person's own chi against them say in aikido or tai chi or even wing chun, however yes, in dim mak they do indeed seal and block meridians with their own chi. However, I'd don't think you can use reiki to do such a thing. Have you ever seen it done? I certainly haven't, so I don't subscribe to fearing this imaginary dark side to reiki. All I've ever seen of it has been positive results, no dim mak style deaths or vampire attacks at all, whether willed or not. Regards, Sean > > Love and Light, > > Garry > > ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:46:20 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 62 Message-ID: <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm674-23.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13036 Sean White wrote: > > gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in news:401263e8.1915648 > @news.Individual.NET: > > Then the meridian system is all washed up--energy just doesn't move > > along those foolish old wive's tales meridians? I know a few shiatsu > > and acupuncture practitioners that might disagree with that. > > They do indeed move along the meridians, no arguement here. This ki > circulation is not instantaneous and does not necessarily energise the > correct area however, it goes through all sorts of cycles according to > the active meridian system and the time of day. A TCM doctor will tell > you - perhaps ask them about it. Then perhaps that all to the good; reiki energy circulating through the whole body. Can't hurt, can it? [snip a bunch of comments] > I'm not advocating strict adherence to the various hand positions, but > am instead saying that unless you can sense the energy flow in those > positions, or later on develop energy sensitivity to work "free form", > then you're going to miss areas that have a much greater need than > others. This means that your not really competent as a practitioner. > You're flying blind. See my final paragraph below. > Indeed they do, and they can chart the meridians quite readily. In fact, > you can use your fingers and flow Reiki into the meridian yourself if > you know where they are, however that doesn't mean that by just placing > your hands any old place you'll give the person a sufficient treatment. > The positions are there for a reason, the skill of sensitivity is there > for a reason, the free form style of intuitive hand placing is there for > a reason. It's not just for laughs - it makes the treatment much more > effective in terms of the time you spend treating and the amount of > energy you give them. Remember, some areas draw a lot more energy then > others - that means if you find those spots, you can give them more > energy. It might be on a meridian, yes quite possibly. It seems to me that the treatment positions were initially taught in Hayashi's clinic. When several people were working on a person, they each had a spot to work on so as not to get in each other's way. > Perhaps read what I've written above Peter - I'm not advocating that > Reiki should be controlled or that hand positions are king, but that > developing sensitivity to Reiki is a very worthwhile thing to do as it > makes you a better practitioner. Perhaps I'm not clear in my expression, > but I'm surprised that I've offended people by saying so! You've offended people by saying that people can be effective practioners *only* if they learn to sense energy and they they're ignorant and incompetent if they don't. We have many people on this group, each practices in a way that seems to work well for them. You practice in a way that works for you. It's your intolerance of other's ways that gives offense, and that has been my point all along, not whether it's necessary or not to sense the energy. Obviously, I've failed to get it across to you - anyone else want to try? sue ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 01:39:12 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074956952 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 01:39:12 +1050) Lines: 126 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13039 suzee wrote in news:401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com: > Sean White wrote: > > >> Your teacher must have been an anarchist with a taste for truisms - I >> learnt skills like sensing energy, distant attunemtments, how to treat >> people etc - stuff you're not interested in apparently. Judgements are >> quite common, such as your above paragraph dearie, they're also nothing >> to be afraid of either. It's very important to hear people disagree with >> us from time to time - we don't have to agree, but it leads to fruitful >> discussion and new ideas. It's quite common in philosophy - and it's >> called "debate". Democratic countries even go so far as to fight wars so >> that people can do it. > > My teacher has been this group and experienced practioners on mailing > lists. Many of them feel much the same way. Are they anarchists or > heretics? Yes, they're probably thought so by some. Seems like they're more likely a pack of bores who can't sense energy or treat very well, and don't like people having opinions - of course, that's just my first impression. As for a heretic - don't flatter yourself. > >> Your ideas sound okay here but hopefully your comments apply to learning >> to actually have the skills to determine your own way. Sensing energy is >> one of these ways. > > One, yes. But perhaps not as important as you seem to believe. Important enough to say it's important in reiki my dear especially if you're a teacher. Not so important as to take offence if you lack it however. > > >> One thing that apparently wasn't taught to you dear was how to practice >> Reiki well. If you're a beginner, that's fine, but really you shouldn't >> be so proud of your ignorance or make excuses for it. > > I don't make excuses because I'm not ignorant. Nor am I a beginner. I've > been practicing reiki for nearly six years. That's a beginner in my books, both in time and in your abilities. > >> >> You seem to feel you're right, and others are wrong. >> >> You do indeed have a talent for stating the obvious. I certainly do >> think I'm right and others are wrong and that's really okay to do. OR IS >> IT WRONG PERHAPS? If it is I think you've argued yourself into a >> paradox. > > Excuse me, I should have said that you believe your way is the *only* > way. Au contraire - I believe my way is the only way for me. you're entitled to your opinions, in fact i welcome differing ones. It's sad to see people blow their fuses as such silly things as sensing energy and me advocating it. How ever do you manage in the real world? > >> If you're happy to lack basic skills, then in all sincerity and with >> love, I truly respect your wishes, but it doesn't make your low >> standards mine. > > What basic skills? Oh, sensing energy. I didn't say I don't completely, > just not always. Well, six years is long enough to have learnt what takes a single day. My point was a couple of posts back was that your teacher could have put in a bit more effort and taught you so you'd always sense it. I can understand that it might put your nose out a bit, but I think it's a real shame that you haven't learnt it. As a teacher, you don't cut the mustard kiddo when it comes to practicing Reiki. > >> Well, you're right for you; the rest >> > of us have to figure out what's right for us. >> >> Indeed you do, and that's really okay and I wish you well. Nonethless, >> it doesn't diminish my opinion, which is what I've expressed and no more >> than that. Are you perhaps having a bad day Sue, or does it frighten you >> when people express their opinions and they don't agree with you? It's >> okay to not agree with people you know. > > I agree with the last statement. It's your arrogant attitude of > dismissing any who don't teach or practice the way you do as inferior > that I take exception to. That's much more than disagreeing with another > opinion. If by arrogance, you mean "daring to disgree with you", well then I'm afraid I'm guilty as charged your serence highness. I don't think my way of teaching is the ultimate way for all, but for chrisakes, you're should have the basics. If you feel like seeing my disgreements with your cherished ideas as being some sort of grave sin, then go right ahead. Do not expect me to applaud your ignorance however. Sean ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 01:52:27 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074957747 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 01:52:27 +1050) Lines: 37 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13040 suzee wrote in news:4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com: > You've offended people by saying that people can be effective > practioners *only* if they learn to sense energy and they they're > ignorant and incompetent if they don't. By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". We have many people on this > group, each practices in a way that seems to work well for them. That's dandy, but I think a teacher should at the very least be able to sense what they are supposed to be able to teach. It was important in Usui's time too - so just get over it and either accept that you can't do it or go ahead and learn it. In Japan it is called "Byosen Reikan-ho" and "Reiji-ho". You > practice in a way that works for you. It's your intolerance of other's > ways that gives offense, and that has been my point all along, not > whether it's necessary or not to sense the energy. Obviously, I've > failed to get it across to you - anyone else want to try? I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're Reiki technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't do it, then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it offends you so much. If you spent less time trying to score silly points off of me, and more time on actual practice, you wouldn't be so touchy about it now. And does your teacher want to try to get the ability across to you perhaps or is she not up to it either? Sean ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 12:13:04 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 39 Message-ID: <4012A7A0.7E899231@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm836-00.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newspeer.monmouth.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13041 Sean White wrote: > > suzee wrote in news:4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com: > > > You've offended people by saying that people can be effective > > practioners *only* if they learn to sense energy and they they're > > ignorant and incompetent if they don't. > > By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". No, you said it yourself "... I'm surprised that I've offended people by saying so". No one's jumped in here because they've seen it as a dialogue between you and I. I'm inviting other people in because I'm not getting my main point across to you. > That's dandy, but I think a teacher should at the very least be able to > sense what they are supposed to be able to teach. It was important in > Usui's time too - so just get over it and either accept that you can't do > it or go ahead and learn it. In Japan it is called "Byosen Reikan-ho" and > "Reiji-ho". And for years this technique was not taught to students in America and Europe. It's a `new' thought that's only been around for the last five years or so. Practioners seemed to be able to get along without knowing it for the previous 30 years. > I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're Reiki > technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't do it, > then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it offends you so much. > If you spent less time trying to score silly points off of me, and more > time on actual practice, you wouldn't be so touchy about it now. > > And does your teacher want to try to get the ability across to you perhaps > or is she not up to it either? As pointed out in another thread, you make a great many unwarranted assumptions - about who taught me, and other things. sue ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:39 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074969598 22901413 80.2.124.91 ([41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!spr1-bolt3-3-0-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13044 (Sean wrote): > Sean Just like the old days ... "My Reiki's better than your Reiki" and patronising ad hominem attacks ... Maybe Sue has found your raw ego spot .. listen to what she's saying .. you have just proved her point .. Yes, debate is good and differing opinions reflect only that .. Stuart ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:19:09 GMT Lines: 41 Message-ID: <4012cf28.2263866@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka356.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.12.166) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074975255 22612877 207.69.12.166 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka356.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13045 On 25 Jan 2004 00:47:29 +1050, Sean White wrote: >gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in news:401263e8.1915648 >@news.Individual.NET: > >> My experience has been that the whole body is interconnected, and if >> you can't get to a particular position, it's no big deal, just leave >> your hands where you *can* reach and either use intention to direct >> the flow to the spot you want to reach (if you're just not confident >> that it will make it on its own), or just trust that they're going to >> get what they need through the positions that you can reach. > >I don't agree. As I said earlier, the body can only absorb what it can >take for that particular area. It can click over, but it's not very >efficient. It can circulate excess too - but it get branched off into >other meridians and so forth. It doesn't harm the person, but you're >best off being guided by the energy. Let me get this this straight--you are saying that there is no way to get the energy effectively and efficiently to a position you are not touching? I'm only a relative beginner at Reiki compared to most in this newsgroup and I could do that much easily by the time I had completed 2nd degree! If I were to respond to you the way you've been responding to Sue I would have to say something like, "I guess with all the years of experience and training and sensitivity that you've been badgering Sue about not having, you don't quite measure up to even your own standards, much less those of a beginner like me." But that wouldn't be very nice, so I won't do it. I do honestly have to ask if you are really a Reiki "Master", though, and not just a run-of-the-mill Usenet troll--do you not know the Reiki Precept that says "Be kind to others"? Calling someone "dearie", "my dear" and talking patronizingly to her is not the mark of someone who is kind to others. Perhaps you should consider having your teacher give you a remedial course in living the precepts, or if your teacher failed to give you the necessary instruction in them the first time, perhaps you should seek a better instructor? Garry ###### Message-ID: <4012F5BC.DCB5491F@mn.rr.com> From: Alex Barna Organization: WorldWide_Spam_killers X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 66 Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:47:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.30.225.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1074984463 65.30.225.94 (Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:47:43 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 16:47:43 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13048 Hi Sean, Sean White wrote: > :) > Seems like they're more likely a pack of bores who can't sense energy or > treat very well, and don't like people having opinions - of course, > that's just my first impression. As for a heretic - don't flatter > yourself. I'm sure I read something like "Just for today, do not be angry," wouldn't that include angering others by insulting them & their beliefs? To add a little of my philosophy, "Putting others down doesn't improve your position." > > I don't make excuses because I'm not ignorant. Nor am I a beginner. > > I've been practicing reiki for nearly six years. > > That's a beginner in my books, both in time and in your abilities. What's wrong with being a beginner? I've been using the energy for over 64 years & I am still a 'beginner'. I can 'see & feel' the energy & understand it's workings from years of living with it. Does that mean that I am better than someone that just started today or 6 years ago? Not in My book. > If by arrogance, you mean "daring to disgree with you", well then I'm > afraid I'm guilty as charged your serence highness. IMO, There is nothing wrong with "daring to disagree with you". There is a lot wrong with the way You chose to do it. > I don't think my way > of teaching is the ultimate way for all, but for chrisakes, you're > should have the basics. If you feel like seeing my disgreements with > your cherished ideas as being some sort of grave sin, then go right > ahead. > Do not expect me to applaud your ignorance however. A class with you must be fun. Do you berate & insult your students until they agree with you? GramPaHugs, Alex, > Sean -- :) -- Any information is included for informational or entertainment purposes only, is based on my personal experiences & is an expression of my opinion. **************************************************** * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w M/SP Mn * AOL Click * AOL Click * Don't worry about life, * you're not going to survive it anyway **************************************************** ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:52:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1074984738 65.33.138.52 (Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:52:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:52:18 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13051 By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". No, You offended many people with your comments. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Sean White" wrote in message news:Xns947B187774798sean@203.16.214.244... > suzee wrote in news:4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com: > > > You've offended people by saying that people can be effective > > practioners *only* if they learn to sense energy and they they're > > ignorant and incompetent if they don't. > > By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". > > We have many people on this > > group, each practices in a way that seems to work well for them. > > That's dandy, but I think a teacher should at the very least be able to > sense what they are supposed to be able to teach. It was important in > Usui's time too - so just get over it and either accept that you can't do > it or go ahead and learn it. In Japan it is called "Byosen Reikan-ho" and > "Reiji-ho". > > > > You > > practice in a way that works for you. It's your intolerance of other's > > ways that gives offense, and that has been my point all along, not > > whether it's necessary or not to sense the energy. Obviously, I've > > failed to get it across to you - anyone else want to try? > > I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're Reiki > technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't do it, > then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it offends you so much. > If you spent less time trying to score silly points off of me, and more > time on actual practice, you wouldn't be so touchy about it now. > > And does your teacher want to try to get the ability across to you perhaps > or is she not up to it either? > > Sean > > > ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> <4012A7A0.7E899231@imbris.com> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Lines: 72 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:57:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1074985064 65.33.138.52 (Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:57:44 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 17:57:44 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!proxad.net!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!news-xfer.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13050 > I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're Reiki > technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't do it, > then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it offends you so much. > If you spent less time trying to score silly points off of me, and more > time on actual practice, you wouldn't be so touchy about it now. Tell you what Mr Ego, I wager that you can not back up any of your comments with actual hands on treatments. I wager a simple person who has received Reiki 1 is as capable of assisting someone in a treatment as you are and yes as well as your teachers if you are a reflection of them. Your current attitude has been around in Reiki for many years and it most likely will remain until more people actually "Teach" you the Simple Truth about Reiki. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "suzee" wrote in message news:4012A7A0.7E899231@imbris.com... > Sean White wrote: > > > > suzee wrote in news:4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com: > > > > > You've offended people by saying that people can be effective > > > practioners *only* if they learn to sense energy and they they're > > > ignorant and incompetent if they don't. > > > > By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". > > No, you said it yourself "... I'm surprised that I've offended people > by saying so". No one's jumped in here because they've seen it as a > dialogue between you and I. I'm inviting other people in because I'm not > getting my main point across to you. > > > That's dandy, but I think a teacher should at the very least be able to > > sense what they are supposed to be able to teach. It was important in > > Usui's time too - so just get over it and either accept that you can't do > > it or go ahead and learn it. In Japan it is called "Byosen Reikan-ho" and > > "Reiji-ho". > > And for years this technique was not taught to students in America and > Europe. It's a `new' thought that's only been around for the last five > years or so. Practioners seemed to be able to get along without knowing > it for the previous 30 years. > > > I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're Reiki > > technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you can't do it, > > then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it offends you so much. > > If you spent less time trying to score silly points off of me, and more > > time on actual practice, you wouldn't be so touchy about it now. > > > > And does your teacher want to try to get the ability across to you perhaps > > or is she not up to it either? > > As pointed out in another thread, you make a great many unwarranted > assumptions - about who taught me, and other things. > > sue > ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Lines: 165 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 23:10:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1074985828 65.33.138.52 (Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:10:28 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:10:28 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13052 >>Well, six years is long enough to have learnt what takes a single day. My point was a couple of posts back was that your teacher could have put in a bit more effort and taught you so you'd always sense it. I can understand that it might put your nose out a bit, but I think it's a real shame that you haven't learnt it. As a teacher, you don't cut the mustard kiddo when it comes to practicing Reiki.<< The above simply proves you are naught but a troll. Obviously you have little to no experience in Teaching anyone the ability to sense energy. For you info some people feel it quite easily whilst others have a more difficult time. However in all cases when either of these types do Reiki the reiki flows. Now when you do sense something such as heat or coolness or when the client senses something different with the touch they are receiving just where are the teaching which can explain what these sensations actually mean and how they relate to the situation. All the sensations can do is make one aware that something is going on during the session, that there really is an activity based on the exchange of energy. As to the need for specific hand placements in treatments that is bogus. it could stem from massage training which advocate that touching/treating the complete body rather than half or a third etc gives the receiver a feeling of completeness in their treatment. It really may be that simple. -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "Sean White" wrote in message news:Xns947B163811791sean@203.16.214.244... > suzee wrote in news:401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com: > > > Sean White wrote: > > > > > >> Your teacher must have been an anarchist with a taste for truisms - I > >> learnt skills like sensing energy, distant attunemtments, how to > treat > >> people etc - stuff you're not interested in apparently. Judgements > are > >> quite common, such as your above paragraph dearie, they're also > nothing > >> to be afraid of either. It's very important to hear people disagree > with > >> us from time to time - we don't have to agree, but it leads to > fruitful > >> discussion and new ideas. It's quite common in philosophy - and it's > >> called "debate". Democratic countries even go so far as to fight wars > so > >> that people can do it. > > > > My teacher has been this group and experienced practioners on mailing > > lists. Many of them feel much the same way. Are they anarchists or > > heretics? Yes, they're probably thought so by some. > > Seems like they're more likely a pack of bores who can't sense energy or > treat very well, and don't like people having opinions - of course, > that's just my first impression. As for a heretic - don't flatter > yourself. > > > > > >> Your ideas sound okay here but hopefully your comments apply to > learning > >> to actually have the skills to determine your own way. Sensing energy > is > >> one of these ways. > > > > One, yes. But perhaps not as important as you seem to believe. > > Important enough to say it's important in reiki my dear especially if > you're a teacher. Not so important as to take offence if you lack it > however. > > > > > > >> One thing that apparently wasn't taught to you dear was how to > practice > >> Reiki well. If you're a beginner, that's fine, but really you > shouldn't > >> be so proud of your ignorance or make excuses for it. > > > > I don't make excuses because I'm not ignorant. Nor am I a beginner. > I've > > been practicing reiki for nearly six years. > > That's a beginner in my books, both in time and in your abilities. > > > > > >> > >> You seem to feel you're right, and others are wrong. > >> > >> You do indeed have a talent for stating the obvious. I certainly do > >> think I'm right and others are wrong and that's really okay to do. OR > IS > >> IT WRONG PERHAPS? If it is I think you've argued yourself into a > >> paradox. > > > > Excuse me, I should have said that you believe your way is the *only* > > way. > > Au contraire - I believe my way is the only way for me. you're entitled > to your opinions, in fact i welcome differing ones. It's sad to see > people blow their fuses as such silly things as sensing energy and me > advocating it. How ever do you manage in the real world? > > > > > >> If you're happy to lack basic skills, then in all sincerity and with > >> love, I truly respect your wishes, but it doesn't make your low > >> standards mine. > > > > What basic skills? Oh, sensing energy. I didn't say I don't > completely, > > just not always. > > Well, six years is long enough to have learnt what takes a single day. > My point was a couple of posts back was that your teacher could have put > in a bit more effort and taught you so you'd always sense it. I can > understand that it might put your nose out a bit, but I think it's a > real shame that you haven't learnt it. As a teacher, you don't cut the > mustard kiddo when it comes to practicing Reiki. > > > > > >> Well, you're right for you; the rest > >> > of us have to figure out what's right for us. > >> > >> Indeed you do, and that's really okay and I wish you well. > Nonethless, > >> it doesn't diminish my opinion, which is what I've expressed and no > more > >> than that. Are you perhaps having a bad day Sue, or does it frighten > you > >> when people express their opinions and they don't agree with you? > It's > >> okay to not agree with people you know. > > > > I agree with the last statement. It's your arrogant attitude of > > dismissing any who don't teach or practice the way you do as inferior > > that I take exception to. That's much more than disagreeing with > another > > opinion. > > If by arrogance, you mean "daring to disgree with you", well then I'm > afraid I'm guilty as charged your serence highness. I don't think my way > of teaching is the ultimate way for all, but for chrisakes, you're > should have the basics. If you feel like seeing my disgreements with > your cherished ideas as being some sort of grave sin, then go right > ahead. > > Do not expect me to applaud your ignorance however. > > Sean > > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> <4012A7A0.7E899231@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 10:27:48 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074988668 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 10:27:48 +1050) Lines: 60 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13054 suzee wrote in news:4012A7A0.7E899231@imbris.com: > Sean White wrote: >> >> suzee wrote in news:4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com: >> >> > You've offended people by saying that people can be effective >> > practioners *only* if they learn to sense energy and they they're >> > ignorant and incompetent if they don't. >> >> By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". > > No, you said it yourself "... I'm surprised that I've offended people > by saying so". No one's jumped in here because they've seen it as a > dialogue between you and I. I'm inviting other people in because I'm > not getting my main point across to you. As I said, offended people means offended you, at least specifically anyhow. > >> That's dandy, but I think a teacher should at the very least be able >> to sense what they are supposed to be able to teach. It was important >> in Usui's time too - so just get over it and either accept that you >> can't do it or go ahead and learn it. In Japan it is called "Byosen >> Reikan-ho" and "Reiji-ho". > > And for years this technique was not taught to students in America and > Europe. It's a `new' thought that's only been around for the last five > years or so. Practioners seemed to be able to get along without > knowing it for the previous 30 years. Actually, it has always been taught, including by Takata. > >> I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're >> Reiki technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you >> can't do it, then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it >> offends you so much. If you spent less time trying to score silly >> points off of me, and more time on actual practice, you wouldn't be >> so touchy about it now. >> >> And does your teacher want to try to get the ability across to you >> perhaps or is she not up to it either? > > As pointed out in another thread, you make a great many unwarranted > assumptions - about who taught me, and other things. I have no idea who taught you, but I can certainly tell that they didn't teach you a very basic skill. Sean > > sue > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> <4012A7A0.7E899231@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 10:31:17 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074988877 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 10:31:17 +1050) Lines: 33 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13055 "ShadowWolf" wrote in news:ILCQb.49758$Bj.25094@twister.tampabay.rr.com: >> I understand quite well that you find offence that I think you're >> Reiki technique is lacking, but the proof is in the pudding. If you >> can't do it, then you haven't learnt it. Just go and learn it if it >> offends you so > much. >> If you spent less time trying to score silly points off of me, and >> more time on actual practice, you wouldn't be so touchy about it now. > > > Tell you what Mr Ego, > I wager that you can not back up any of your comments with actual > hands on treatments. > I wager a simple person who has received Reiki 1 is as capable of > assisting someone in a treatment as you are and yes as well as your > teachers if you are a reflection of them. hehehe - by your ignorant standards, you'd probably be right. It would all go over your head I imagine. > > Your current attitude has been around in Reiki for many years and it > most likely will remain until more people actually "Teach" you the > Simple Truth about Reiki. > How fortunate we have you to know it. Sean ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012cf28.2263866@news.Individual.NET> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 10:40:18 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074989418 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 10:40:18 +1050) Lines: 79 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13056 gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in news:4012cf28.2263866 @news.Individual.NET: > On 25 Jan 2004 00:47:29 +1050, Sean White wrote: > >>gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in news:401263e8.1915648 >>@news.Individual.NET: >> > >>> My experience has been that the whole body is interconnected, and if >>> you can't get to a particular position, it's no big deal, just leave >>> your hands where you *can* reach and either use intention to direct >>> the flow to the spot you want to reach (if you're just not confident >>> that it will make it on its own), or just trust that they're going to >>> get what they need through the positions that you can reach. >> >>I don't agree. As I said earlier, the body can only absorb what it can >>take for that particular area. It can click over, but it's not very >>efficient. It can circulate excess too - but it get branched off into >>other meridians and so forth. It doesn't harm the person, but you're >>best off being guided by the energy. > > Let me get this this straight--you are saying that there is no way to > get the energy effectively and efficiently to a position you are not > touching? I'm saying that it's not as effective as treating where the energy is drawn the most. Try treating someone instead of initiating them for a change, and you might learn about what you're supposed to be teaching. I'm only a relative beginner at Reiki compared to most in > this newsgroup and I could do that much easily by the time I had > completed 2nd degree! It's usually the case at first degree, thanks to someone teaching them well or perhaps the person learning it for themselves. But a person not being able to sense the energy when they're a teacher is just plain ridiculous. If I were to respond to you the way you've been > responding to Sue I would have to say something like, "I guess with > all the years of experience and training and sensitivity that you've > been badgering Sue about not having, you don't quite measure up to > even your own standards, much less those of a beginner like me." But > that wouldn't be very nice, so I won't do it. I wouldn't worry too much, you've got bigger problems. > > I do honestly have to ask if you are really a Reiki "Master", though, > and not just a run-of-the-mill Usenet troll--do you not know the Reiki > Precept that says "Be kind to others"? Calling someone "dearie", "my > dear" and talking patronizingly to her is not the mark of someone who > is kind to others. How fortunate I am to have you intrpret them for me. Are you perhaps chanelling Mikao Usui? No let me guess, you are Mikao Usui? Perhaps you should consider having your teacher > give you a remedial course in living the precepts, or if your teacher > failed to give you the necessary instruction in them the first time, > perhaps you should seek a better instructor? Oh I think I'm just fine thanks. You kids need to grow up and not throw tantrums when you're not making the grade. Sean > > Garry > > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> <4012F5BC.DCB5491F@mn.rr.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 10:45:56 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074989756 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 10:45:56 +1050) Lines: 78 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!63.218.45.11.MISMATCH!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!snewsf0.syd.ops.aspac.uu.net!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13057 Alex Barna wrote in news:4012F5BC.DCB5491F@mn.rr.com: > Hi Sean, > > Sean White wrote: >> > :) >> Seems like they're more likely a pack of bores who can't sense energy >> or treat very well, and don't like people having opinions - of >> course, that's just my first impression. As for a heretic - don't >> flatter yourself. > > I'm sure I read something like "Just for today, do not be angry," > wouldn't that include angering others by insulting them & their > beliefs? > > To add a little of my philosophy, "Putting others down doesn't improve > your position." > > >> > I don't make excuses because I'm not ignorant. Nor am I a beginner. >> > I've been practicing reiki for nearly six years. >> >> That's a beginner in my books, both in time and in your abilities. > > What's wrong with being a beginner? I've been using the energy for > over 64 years & I am still a 'beginner'. I can 'see & feel' the energy > & understand it's workings from years of living with it. Does that > mean that I am better than someone that just started today or 6 years > ago? Not in My book. Nothing at all, but if you have the skills of a beginner, then you are indeed a beginner. You're right, nobody is better than your touchy friend, including me, but it doesn't diminsh the fact that she lacks basic Reiki skills that she could easily develop. I'm not fussed if she doesn't, but I don't think she should be proud of her ignorance. > > >> If by arrogance, you mean "daring to disgree with you", well then I'm >> afraid I'm guilty as charged your serence highness. > > IMO, There is nothing wrong with "daring to disagree with you". There > is a lot wrong with the way You chose to do it. You mean actually say it? Yes, I imagine it would be the wrong way to you. > >> I don't think my way >> of teaching is the ultimate way for all, but for chrisakes, you're >> should have the basics. If you feel like seeing my disgreements with >> your cherished ideas as being some sort of grave sin, then go right >> ahead. > >> Do not expect me to applaud your ignorance however. > > A class with you must be fun. Do you berate & insult your students > until they agree with you? How long have you been beating your wife? Sean > > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > >> Sean > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401263e8.1915648@news.Individual.NET> <4012853C.C03C646E@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 10:47:25 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074989845 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 10:47:25 +1050) Lines: 15 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13058 I'm not fussed that it offends the amateurs amongst you too much. Sean "ShadowWolf" wrote in news:CGCQb.49757$Bj.48060 @twister.tampabay.rr.com: > By "offended people" I think you mean "offended you". > > No, > You offended many people with your comments. > ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 10:49:40 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1074989980 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 10:49:40 +1050) Lines: 46 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!priapus.visi.com!orange.octanews.net!news.octanews.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13059 "ShadowWolf" wrote in news:EXCQb.49759$Bj.32791@twister.tampabay.rr.com: >>>Well, six years is long enough to have learnt what takes a single >>>day. > My point was a couple of posts back was that your teacher could have > put in a bit more effort and taught you so you'd always sense it. I > can understand that it might put your nose out a bit, but I think it's > a real shame that you haven't learnt it. As a teacher, you don't cut > the mustard kiddo when it comes to practicing Reiki.<< > > The above simply proves you are naught but a troll. > Obviously you have little to no experience in Teaching anyone the > ability to sense energy. > For you info some people feel it quite easily whilst others have a > more difficult time. > However in all cases when either of these types do Reiki the reiki > flows. How would you know about teaching, you initiate people and then sens them on their way! It's just as well you don't charge anyone for the privellage. > > Now when you do sense something such as heat or coolness or when the > client senses something different with the touch they are receiving > just where are the teaching which can explain what these sensations > actually mean and how they relate to the situation. > > All the sensations can do is make one aware that something is going on > during the session, that there really is an activity based on the > exchange of energy. > > As to the need for specific hand placements in treatments that is > bogus. it could stem from massage training which advocate that > touching/treating the complete body rather than half or a third etc > gives the receiver a feeling of completeness in their treatment. > It really may be that simple. Go and learn about it, perhaps by treating some people instead of just churning out students, and you might get an idea. Sean ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:38:44 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 16 Message-ID: <40131E24.34A288FF@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> <4012F5BC.DCB5491F@mn.rr.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm793-14.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13064 Alex Barna wrote: > > Hi Sean, > > Sean White wrote: > > If by arrogance, you mean "daring to disgree with you", well then I'm > > afraid I'm guilty as charged your serence highness. > > IMO, There is nothing wrong with "daring to disagree with you". There is a lot > wrong with the way You chose to do it. Which has been my point all along, when I wasn't sidetracked into discussion on whether sensing energy is important or not. sue ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 20:41:16 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 11 Message-ID: <40131EBC.C68E4CC5@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm793-14.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!syros.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13065 Sean White wrote: > Go and learn about it, perhaps by treating some people instead of just > churning out students, and you might get an idea. How do you know how many people any of us treat, as opposed to how many we give attunements too? You don't and you don't seem to want to know. [plonk] sue ###### Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention From: Sean White References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401277BA.CD4A7691@imbris.com> <40131EBC.C68E4CC5@imbris.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net Date: 25 Jan 2004 14:02:32 +1050 X-Trace: duster.adelaide.on.net 1075001552 ppp150-136.lns1.mel2.internode.on.net (25 Jan 2004 14:02:32 +1050) Lines: 31 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.ade.connect.com.au!duster.adelaide.on.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13068 Your lack of ability speaks volumes and demonstrates how little you actually practice. Six years is long enough to have learnt a simple skill that a first degree can master in a day. You're not able to teach sufficiently if you can't even sense energy consistently. I understand that this irks you, but it's just a fact dear. One can not treat properly if they can't sense energy all the time. You just aren't qualified to teach properly by your lack of simple skills. Takata did it that way, Usui did it that way, Japanese reiki does it that way - it's just about competence. Anyhow, I've made my point, so will leave it at that. Sean suzee wrote in news:40131EBC.C68E4CC5@imbris.com: > Sean White wrote: > >> Go and learn about it, perhaps by treating some people instead of just >> churning out students, and you might get an idea. > > How do you know how many people any of us treat, as opposed to how many > we give attunements too? You don't and you don't seem to want to know. > > [plonk] > > sue > ###### Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 13:52:04 +0800 From: Reader User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4010f228_1@news.tm.net.my> <40112ea3_1@news.tm.net.my> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 219.95.9.221 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 219.95.9.221 Message-ID: <401359c3$1_2@news.tm.net.my> X-Trace: news.tm.net.my 1075009987 219.95.9.221 (25 Jan 2004 13:53:07 +0800) Organization: TMnet Malaysia Lines: 74 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!ash.uu.net!news1.tm.net.my Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13071 Sean White wrote: > Hi again Chang, > Alot of people have the ability to channel energy through their > hands to some degree, but it's somewhat different to reiki, which uses > an attunement initiation to boost the amount that a person can channel > and receive. > Point taken. > Strictly speaking what you're doing isn't "Reiki" or the "Usui Method" > as you haven't recieved the attunements, however you are certainly > channelling life force (or ki). Ok. > > The difference is that the attunement tunes your energy field in, so > that you're recieving and broadcasting clearly. In some cases your > ability to give may be greater than that of receiving, so that it can > result in you depleting your energy (which isn't a good thing to do). If > you're inexperienced and are not familiar with the techniques of energy > healing, then you may also pick up other people's energy too which is > also not very good. > Thanks for the note of caution. I actually wanted to experiment a bit by myself (not getting attunement by someone) to experience the energy first before actually getting attuned in the normal way. > If you don't mind me giving you some more advice, perhaps wait until > you've gotten your first attunement and then continue your practice. If > on the other hand, you're interested in healing without using Reiki, > then I'd suggest you learn a bit more about those techniques so you > don't harm yourself. > Your advice is certainly welcome and appreciated. > Where do you live? Someone here might know of a place where you can > learn in person perhaps, or you mignt be able to get a teacher to > initiate and teach you via distant attunement and email. Some people > just offer the distant attunement, but in my opinion it's no substitute > for being taught (even if by email) as well. I am in Perak, Malaysia. There are Reiki Masters in Kuala Lumpur City which is about 200+ km away, but it is inconvenient for me to go there. Anyhow, I was in the mood for experiment and did a self-attunement yesterday as per a website I found. Quite an experience! I let go of some intense emotion, and am now feeling so hot, pulsating with energy. Now I have to read again all the Level one and two details to refresh my memory. > > Sean > Thanks, Sean for your advice. Will post some more questions later on. Regards, Chang > > > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:50:37 +0200 Lines: 158 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-203-240.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jan 2004 05:30:39 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-203-240.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-203-240.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13090 "suzee" wrote in message news:c188e901fb17da0d0c90b8642e53778d@news.teranews.com... > Sean, > > There you go again... Mustn't... Can't.... all these judgement words > you're throwing into reiki. Didn't *your* teacher ever teach you the > first rule of reiki? 1. There are no rules. 1. There are always rules. I was certainly unaware that Reiki suspends all rules. In fact, I think that would be horrific, rules equal structure, structure ensures continuity of organisms, organisations, and life itself. 2. Isn't what you write above a judgment in itself? It's ironic, isn't it, that whenever we call somebody judgmental we have to be likewise? You may not like the language Sean uses, but hey, just look how it woke people up from their slumber, judging (oops, there is the dreaded word again) by the way this thread is mushrooming with posts. Unfortunately most just complain about being woken up and having their dream disrupted. What is so threatening about Sean's assertions? I admit, it may make me feel like shit, but the shit is in me, and if the only effect it has to give this sensing energy thing more consideration rather than just dismiss it as unimportant or not-valid then he did me a great service. How may Reiki practitioners are out there who do not even bother to increase their sensitivity to energy fields because it has been made unimportant? Don't bother, not only in their Reiki practice, but in general. Helping others and personal growth is not about feeling good but also about recognising which areas we have neglected and should (sorry) give attention to. In that way even a blown-up ego-troll may be of service. What happened to the idea that everything is interlinked and only good things come our way, and at the right time? Was that not the topic or content of some posts in the past? There seemed to be no dissenting voices on that. Is it touted as one of the truisms of new-age philosophy? Remember the real troll we had a few months back, and how he contributed immensely in terms of humour and light-heartedness? Months back I mentioned that a German Reiki master sees as part of the Reiki work the taking back of all projections. It did not trigger a single hint of curiosity. With that level of curiosity and investigative interest it is not surprising to me that most people here seem to still have a lot of work to do in that respect. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > Not everyone does things the way you do, we each do things, feel and > sense things, in a different way. Because we're unique individuals, not > cookie cutter clones. Beginners may need the reassurance of a set > sequence because they're always afraid of not doing it `right'. I think, > if the instructor is good, he/she will teach a sequence, but also tell > them as they develop experience, they can do things which feel right for > them, not just blindly follow what they were taught (which some do). One > thing that's taught in reiki is the energy goes where it's needed. So > why is there `need' to be able to sense what area needs energy? As far > as length of treatment time, wouldn't it just keep flowing to an area as > long as needed, regardless of whether the hands are on that area, or > have moved to another position? Escpecially if you set an intention > (ask?) for it to keep on flowing as long as needed. > > Yes, your words are harsh, as are most of the statements you've posted > to this group since you first began posting here. You seem to feel > you're right, and others are wrong. Well, you're right for you; the rest > of us have to figure out what's right for us. > > sue > > Sean White wrote: > > > > Hi Garry, > > First off - lol, I'm not sure if Frank Arjava Petter is the > > standard in reiki excellence or if he performs well. I haven't met him > > or recieved treatments from him or his students, so I'm not sure if he's > > a good teacher or practitioner. He might be possibly high in the > > standard of book excellence though. > > > > I'm also not sure if his practitioners are a good judge of his > > attunements either, after all, practitioners are often easily impressed. > > There is after all a great deal of bias in that range of opinions. > > > > What I think is a good guide as to judging a teacher is whether their > > teacher teaches their students well and treats well, and whether the > > practitioners can treat well. > > > > In this, Frank Petter unfortunately musn't make the grade if what you > > say is correct. A teacher can't treat well if they can't sense the > > energy - they're just guessing through the treatment, and that's just > > doesn't cut the mustard. If they can't treat well, then how can they > > then teach well? > > > > Just imagine it Garry, you're treating someone according to whatever > > hand position sequence you're a fan of, and you just don't know what the > > energy is telling you to do. The energy might be needed on the heart > > position, or the kidneys for a long time - and here you are as dumb as > > mud, looking at your watch as skipping past by looking at the clock. The > > treatment might need to be much longer and you're just going through the > > motions. That's just hopeless. I mean Petter has published a lot on > > interesting aspects to technique and yet it seems no good if he lacks > > such simple skills. > > > > I also don't think what I'm saying is too harsh, because sincerely, I've > > never met anyone who can't learn to sense the energy just by the > > smallest amount of practice. I've managed to teach all my students it - > > so why can't Frank Petter learn it and teach it? > > > > I mean even Tai Chi and Aikido students etc can be taught to sense > > energy - it's not a big secret or a skill that takes decades. All the > > first degree students I've ever taught can learn it by treating people > > for less than a day. > > > > I understand that some people might not be fussed in sensing the energy, > > but to me it's a glaring ommision in the skills base as a practitioner. > > I personally wouldn't initiate someone to the second level if they came > > from another teacher without making sure they had developed it. I > > certainly wouldn't initiate or teach a master if they hadn't learnt it. > > In my opinion they're hardly a complete "master" of Reiki if they can't > > even sense what they're supposed to be teaching. > > > > Sean > > > > gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote in > > news:4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET: > > > > > Sean, what about people like Frank Arjava Petter? I forget which book > > > he wrote it in, but ISTR that somewhere he mentioned not being able to > > > sense Reiki until long after he had become a Master/Teacher and > > > performed many attunements. Apparently his students felt he performed > > > very powerful attunements, but he, himself did not feel the energy for > > > some years. So there's at least one example of someone who can > > > perform, and perform well, without being able to sense the energy. > > > > > > I don't have any particular axe to grind on the subject, but thought I > > > would mention it to help "round out" the discussion. :-) > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:29:30 +0200 Lines: 149 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-203-240.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <401489e1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jan 2004 05:30:41 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-203-240.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-203-240.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13091 "Sean White" wrote in message news:Xns947AAFE0B2E21sean@203.16.214.244... > The energy certainly can move to where it is needed, but it's not > absorbed readily unless it is indeed needed on a particular position. > The positions generally overlap energy centres and organs and their > connections, hence why there are many of them and not just one sole > position. This is also the reason why there in fact are many positions > (whatever system of positions you teach and use as there are a lot of > variations nowadays). Hi Sean, this makes sense if we assume that the treatment needs to work on a problem area in failry direct manner. However, if we assume that reiki works on the rebalancing of the whole body energy system, maybe via the meridians, then this might be less true. In the EFT protocol it is recognised that the method is ineffective with some people. This is attributed to a reversed energy field in that person and methods are given on how to reverse a persons energy field polarity after which treatment becomes effective. Could it be that ineffective Reiki application may be due to a similar reverse energy field influence? > I'm well aware that the Reiki will move, however the energy will always > go to the most direct path to whatever is depleted or where it can be > held. It's much like water in that it takes the easiest path. There are > lots of books about ki that can explain the principles of how it flows > through the body and where it is drawn if you want to read more about > it. Like water, it finds its own level, and that level is maybe not what the client or the practitioner thinks is necessary. Placing the hands on a particular position then "nudges" the energy to the points where the client feels that he is really helped while treating the other areas will improve his general functioning and well-being. Any specific books you can recommend? > If you don't believe me, then ask yourself this - if Reiki energy can > travel anywhere at all, then why don't we just have one hand position? A good question. > The answer is that the body can only readily aborb as per it's > particular need in a particular place. Does this mean that reiki treatments on a completely healthy body would be of no effect and no benefit? Not that there are many such bodies around, so the question is rather academic. > If you think watching television or chatting away is the way to treat > people, then your energy will be unfocussed and weak flowing. By > focusing on the energy, it develops sesitivity, and also enhances the > flow, thus providing more power. I fully agree with you here. Focused energy and action seems to be preferable to a dispersed and diluted one. > Sending reiki for the "good of all" or for the "best result" are very > nice ideas, but not necessary. Such things demonstrate people's > unfamilarity with the energy and lack of experience working with it. > These people should perhaps practice more and draw conclusions later. As > a counter example, one can send Reiki and wish that the person will be > sick or die - and it just won't happen. Instead the energy will benefit > the person regardless of intent. Oh my. Sending energy whishing that a person will die. I see that nobody has picked on you on that one. Sending Reiki for a quick and peaceful death of a terminally ill person would seem quite legitimate to me. Of course, this is also somewhat different to the "voodoo" stuff you probably refer to. > Reiki is in itself life force energy, as you likely know, it literally > means "universal life energy". It does not harm people nor can it, nor > does it need to be invoked in the way a magic spell would. The terms for > the good of all etc, are modern revivalist-Wiccan invocations placed at > the end of spells - similar ones are "with harm to none, so mote it be, > for the greatest good etc.." Placating the doubts about one's true intentions or justifying ones deed. It is like a frequent interaction with a "new-age" persons who, after I voice an opinion, responds with "that's what you think, and that's OK with me." If it is really OK, why does it have to be said? It is good the hear a fresh voice, and that it tends to come from the "disagreeable" side even better. You seemed to have run into what I consider the new taboo of "expressing ideas with passion, forcefulness and in a direct manner". Over the last couple of weeks I have contributes far less than before because the day before Christmas I got physcially nauseous by the very thought of a.h.r and its level of interaction which I see as superficial. I wonder if there is any person who has adapted, or changed their opinions about Reiki, the methods used, or the way it works over the last half year? If you did, please post a message to that effect. How come so many groups dealing with spiritual matters are bordering on the inane? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > "pr" wrote in news:4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za: > > > > Hmmm. So the Reiki energy does NOT know on its own where to go > > and where it is needed? It has to tell the therapist first who will > then > > do his thing accordingly? > > This will puncture a few of our practitioners' beliefs. Read > ShadowWolf's > > post from in another branch of this thread taking a position that is > > virtually the opposite of yours. > > And what about distant healings and sending Reiki for the "good > > of all", or "the best result", without any focus? > > What does "going through the motions" mean when some people > > claim that they can do Reiki while watching TV or chatting with > > friends? > > > > These were all topics which came up in this forum fairly recently. > > For me, none of them resulted in any conclusion, worse, it seems > > to me that none of them resulted in much of an understanding or > > insight either. > > > > -- > > Namu Amida Butsu > > Peter Reber > > "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <4014A895.1CC15874@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 36 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:42:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1075095722 24.71.223.147 (Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:42:02 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:42:02 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!c03.atl99!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13093 Far be it for someone like me to interject when I also get folks riled up sometimes. So anyway, interjecting here...... :) I suppose we could include certain 'rules' in communication. If we are interested in chopping folks off at the knees, it is a good idea to communicate that up front. I didn't say "Don't do it" and communicating one's intentions allows for it to appear less like an attack. At least folks have some idea of what one's commitment is. We need to be responsible for the effects of what we say. Someone once said to me, "If you want to get to the prisoner within, don't piss off the guard." So it doesn't matter whether what is being communicated is pure gold, teaching/training first requires the recipients permission. Without this permission there is less of a 'wake up' call and more of a 'being dumped on.' Using the universe as the score card, we communicate and then check the results. Then we may have to alter our own communication if we score a zero. It doesn't work to hide behind any kind of self-righteousness. Just check one's commitment, and try again! Remember, "I'm pulling for you. We're all in this together!" Cheers Rich pr wrote: > > 1. There are always rules. ###### From: suzee Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 06:46:56 -0500 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 8 Message-ID: <4014FE30.F5E12EE@imbris.com> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com NNTP-Posting-Host: pm854-04.dialip.mich.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: fordkenn X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp.infostrada.it!xmission!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13098 pr wrote: > What is so threatening about Sean's assertions? Not a thing. It's the manner in which he chose to present them, that is by putting other people down. sue ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:44:28 GMT Lines: 76 Message-ID: <4015042c.1006122@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401489e1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka05t.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.0.189) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1075120768 24601970 207.69.0.189 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka05t.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13099 On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:29:30 +0200, "pr" wrote: >Placating the doubts about one's true intentions or justifying >ones deed. It is like a frequent interaction with a "new-age" >persons who, after I voice an opinion, responds with "that's >what you think, and that's OK with me." If it is really OK, why >does it have to be said? It may be that what they are saying is a polite way of communicating, "I accept that you firmly believe this idiotic theory, and, although I strongly disagree, you're too stupidly blind to the facts for me to waste my time arguing with you about it." Of course, the complete reverse might be the case. ;-) >It is good the hear a fresh voice, and that it tends to come from >the "disagreeable" side even better. >You seemed to have run into what I consider the new taboo >of "expressing ideas with passion, forcefulness and in a >direct manner". I see. So you are saying that the only way to express opposing ideas with passion, forcefulness, and a direct manner is to call names and insult people? Is this because insults and name calling increases communication, or because it gives you a chance to work on your "just for today, let go of anger", or because it gives you a chance to "be kind to others"? Or is there some other reason for name calling and insults that I have overlooked? Would you please break it down for this dimwitted clod who has to be insulted in order to understand? BTW, good manners never go out of style, and this has been true for as long as there has been civilization. It's part of the human condition. Of course, there will always be deliberate assholes and insensitive clods, as well. This, too, is part of the human condition. The question is, which do you choose to be, and how do you deal with it when you run into an asshole or insensitive clod? Which is an entirely different question that simply having a difference of opinion. Some people foolishly think that calling someone "dearie" is simply expressing an opinion on a given subject in a forceful, direct manner. Actually, it's just expressing that opinion in a way that's just plain rude. If you disagree, that's fine and dandy with me, and I welcome a chance to hear why this is not correct, but if you have to call me names to get your point across, then you're simply a boor (talk about the perfect word for just the right person!). :-) >Over the last couple of weeks I have contributes far less than >before because the day before Christmas I got physcially nauseous >by the very thought of a.h.r and its level of interaction which I see >as superficial. Mirror, mirror on the wall... Would you like Reiki with that nausea? > I wonder if there is any person who has adapted, >or changed their opinions about Reiki, the methods used, or the >way it works over the last half year? If you did, please post a >message to that effect. I want to hear your story about what's changed for you in the last 6 months, first. Of course, if you blame others for not being insulting enough to make you change your ways, I guess you won't have anything to tell. >How come so many groups dealing with spiritual matters >are bordering on the inane? Pot. Kettle. Black. Instead of cursing the darkness, why not light a candle? Lead by example? namaste, Garry ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4014A895.1CC15874@shaw.ca> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 08:42:13 +0200 Lines: 84 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-68.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <401530ea.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 26 Jan 2004 17:23:22 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-68.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-68.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13110 "Rich" wrote in message news:4014A895.1CC15874@shaw.ca... > > Far be it for someone like me to interject when I also get folks riled > up sometimes. Can't remember any incidences. My memory must be worse than I thought. As to the rest you write, I would like to belief, a belief obviously misplaced, that even Reiki 1 level practitioners are above such things. That even they can deal with such situtations in a dignified manner and don't fall over each others feet in order to rip a "declared undesirable" poster to pieces until he is hounded out of the group or submits to the general consensus. As to asking for permission, "Can I be forthright with you?" what will you say? "NO!". We know the answer is Yes. Sure, you might be forewarned that some heavy stuff is coming your way. I am just of the opinion that Reiki practitioners should be able to deal with it. Yes, I say the forbidden word, should! In this whole spectacle, where is the self-reflection, the self-examination, the committment to be a better person today than yesterday, to be a better person than the one who tries to injure you, or damage your beliefs, to a better world in general? The Tibetans have a technique where as part of meditation the pain of the world is voluntarily taken on as ones own pain, and contrary to what one would expect, there is tremendous healing in that. How about taking on a little pain from a persons you may think needs some relieve - and do that without complaining? Are we, the Reiki communuity here, not the world out there, so childish, so sensitive that we need this forewarning business? What happens to taking responsibility for your own reactions? -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > I suppose we could include certain 'rules' in communication. If we are > interested > in chopping folks off at the knees, it is a good idea to communicate > that > up front. I didn't say "Don't do it" and communicating one's intentions > allows > for it to appear less like an attack. At least folks have some idea of > what > one's commitment is. We need to be responsible for the effects of what > we say. > Someone once said to me, "If you want to get to the prisoner within, > don't piss off the guard." So it doesn't matter whether what is being > communicated is > pure gold, teaching/training first requires the recipients permission. > Without this > permission there is less of a 'wake up' call and more of a 'being dumped > on.' > Using the universe as the score card, we communicate and then check the > results. > Then we may have to alter our own communication if we score a zero. It > doesn't > work to hide behind any kind of self-righteousness. Just check one's > commitment, > and try again! Remember, "I'm pulling for you. > We're all in this together!" > Cheers > Rich > > pr wrote: > > > > > 1. There are always rules. ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 13:14:57 GMT Lines: 82 Message-ID: <40150bf0.2994186@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka05t.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.0.189) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1075122596 24512725 207.69.0.189 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka05t.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13101 On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 03:50:37 +0200, "pr" wrote: >What is so threatening about Sean's assertions? I admit, Not a damn thing. What I have to wonder is why he feels it necessary to be rude when making an assertion? >it may make me feel like shit, but the shit is in me, and >if the only effect it has to give this sensing energy thing >more consideration rather than just dismiss it as unimportant >or not-valid then he did me a great service. How nice for you. Since I've been interested in increasing my own sensitivity since day one, all his insults did for me was to show me what a rude, mannerless jerk he can be. >How may Reiki practitioners are out there who do not >even bother to increase their sensitivity to energy fields >because it has been made unimportant? Don't bother, >not only in their Reiki practice, but in general. We're not all alike. So we don't all have the same needs. Why does it bother you (and Sean) so much that perhaps there are people who don't really care one way or the other about increasing their sensitivity? People that perhaps do not practice Reiki in the same way or for the same reasons as you or I? (And if you practice differently than I do, there's something wrong with you.) Does it threaten your worldview to think that someone could go around with a different opinion about what's necessary and what's not? Get a grip, man! >Helping others and personal growth is not about feeling >good but also about recognising which areas we have >neglected and should (sorry) give attention to. >In that way even a blown-up ego-troll may be of service. I'll give you that one. But aren't we mixing apples and oranges here? >What happened to the idea that everything is interlinked >and only good things come our way, and at the right >time? Was that not the topic or content of some posts >in the past? There seemed to be no dissenting voices >on that. Is it touted as one of the truisms of new-age >philosophy? Has this post been good enough for you so far, baby? It gets even better! >Remember the real troll we had a few months >back, and how he contributed immensely in terms of humour >and light-heartedness? Ah, yes. But he had good manners, a quick wit, and style! A pity the current garden variety can't measure up to his lofty standards. Those were the good ol' days, you know? >Months back I mentioned that a German Reiki master sees >as part of the Reiki work the taking back of all projections. >It did not trigger a single hint of curiosity. With that level >of curiosity and investigative interest it is not surprising to >me that most people here seem to still have a lot of work >to do in that respect. Sorry if something that is new and interesting to you, may not seem so new and interesting to everyone else. Oddly enough, I find that people are not crushingly interested in the things that I find new and interesting, either. But I get over it. :-) OTOH, maybe you just aren't a good enough salesman for your agenda? Maybe you just didn't work hard enough to make the topic interesting, visible, hip and just oh-so-now? Or maybe the folks who have been around ahr for years are thoroughly bored with the long-dead, over-explored subjects that newbies like you and I find interesting, and just cannot possibly summon one iota of interest? We'll just have to wait until someone with less knowledge and experience comes along to argue with and insult us, I guess. :-) Hope that's been helpful for you, although I sense that my opinions were not expressed forcefully and rudely enough for you. namaste, Garry ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 68.144.1.130 Message-ID: <40155002.A56FE2CD@shaw.ca> From: Rich X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en]C-CCK-MCD telus.net_v5.0.1HS (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4014A895.1CC15874@shaw.ca> <401530ea.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:36:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1075138584 24.71.223.147 (Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:36:24 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:36:24 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!167.206.3.103.MISMATCH!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13112 I myself have no problem with what you say, Peter, except that 'being above such things' doesn't come automatically with being a Reiki 1. If it does, lets clarify how. For me, I have declared myself to be a student of human nature and choose to wade in whatever shows up. That's a choice that gives me some freedom to 'not get any on me'. In an environment of inquiry there is more leeway to be different in our communication. If someone thinks he doesn't want you to be forthright, they may not be prepared and that must be respected. We speak of sensing energies here and must allow that the energy we are putting forth (being sensed) may not be acceptable if it isn't intended to create partnership or relationship. Just 2 cents. Cheers Rich pr wrote: > > I would like to belief, a belief > obviously misplaced, that even Reiki 1 level practitioners > are above such things. That even they can deal with such > situtations in a dignified manner and don't fall over each > others feet in order to rip a "declared undesirable" poster > to pieces until he is hounded out of the group or submits > to the general consensus. > > As to asking for permission, "Can I be forthright with you?" > what will you say? "NO!". We know the answer is Yes. > Sure, you might be forewarned that some heavy stuff is > coming your way. I am just of the opinion that Reiki > practitioners should be able to deal with it. Yes, I say > the forbidden word, should! ###### From: "ShadowWolf" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4014A895.1CC15874@shaw.ca> <401530ea.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Lines: 112 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 17:58:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.33.138.52 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.tampabay.rr.com 1075139917 65.33.138.52 (Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:58:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 12:58:37 EST Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13116 -- ShadowWolf http://www.mysticreiki.com http://www.reiki.net "pr" wrote in message news:401530ea.0@news1.mweb.co.za... >I would like to belief, a belief > obviously misplaced, that even Reiki 1 level practitioners > are above such things. That even they can deal with such > situtations in a dignified manner and don't fall over each > others feet in order to rip a "declared undesirable" poster > to pieces until he is hounded out of the group or submits > to the general consensus. > I should think that it would not take long to realise that Reiki people are merely people. Same faults as the rest of the world and just because they received an attunement to enable them to access Life Force energy they have not become saints etc. > "Rich" wrote in message news:4014A895.1CC15874@shaw.ca... > > > > Far be it for someone like me to interject when I also get folks riled > > up sometimes. > > Can't remember any incidences. My memory must be > worse than I thought. > > As to the rest you write, I would like to belief, a belief > obviously misplaced, that even Reiki 1 level practitioners > are above such things. That even they can deal with such > situtations in a dignified manner and don't fall over each > others feet in order to rip a "declared undesirable" poster > to pieces until he is hounded out of the group or submits > to the general consensus. > > As to asking for permission, "Can I be forthright with you?" > what will you say? "NO!". We know the answer is Yes. > Sure, you might be forewarned that some heavy stuff is > coming your way. I am just of the opinion that Reiki > practitioners should be able to deal with it. Yes, I say > the forbidden word, should! > In this whole spectacle, where is the self-reflection, > the self-examination, the committment to be a better > person today than yesterday, to be a better person > than the one who tries to injure you, or damage > your beliefs, to a better world in general? > > The Tibetans have a technique where as part of meditation > the pain of the world is voluntarily taken on as ones > own pain, and contrary to what one would expect, there > is tremendous healing in that. How about taking on > a little pain from a persons you may think needs some > relieve - and do that without complaining? > > Are we, the Reiki communuity here, not the world out there, > so childish, so sensitive that we need this forewarning > business? What happens to taking responsibility for your > own reactions? > > -- > Namu Amida Butsu > Peter Reber > "Life knows its needs" > > > I suppose we could include certain 'rules' in communication. If we are > > interested > > in chopping folks off at the knees, it is a good idea to communicate > > that > > up front. I didn't say "Don't do it" and communicating one's intentions > > allows > > for it to appear less like an attack. At least folks have some idea of > > what > > one's commitment is. We need to be responsible for the effects of what > > we say. > > Someone once said to me, "If you want to get to the prisoner within, > > don't piss off the guard." So it doesn't matter whether what is being > > communicated is > > pure gold, teaching/training first requires the recipients permission. > > Without this > > permission there is less of a 'wake up' call and more of a 'being dumped > > on.' > > Using the universe as the score card, we communicate and then check the > > results. > > Then we may have to alter our own communication if we score a zero. It > > doesn't > > work to hide behind any kind of self-righteousness. Just check one's > > commitment, > > and try again! Remember, "I'm pulling for you. > > We're all in this together!" > > Cheers > > Rich > > > > pr wrote: > > > > > > > > 1. There are always rules. > > > > > > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4014FE30.F5E12EE@imbris.com> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 02:11:54 +0200 Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-201.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4015d1c3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 27 Jan 2004 04:49:39 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-201.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-201.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13133 "suzee" wrote in message news:4014FE30.F5E12EE@imbris.com... > pr wrote: > > > What is so threatening about Sean's assertions? > > Not a thing. It's the manner in which he chose to present them, that is > by putting other people down. You mean like: "There you go again... Mustn't... Can't.... all these judgement words you're throwing into reiki. Didn't *your* teacher ever teach you the first rule of reiki?" -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401489e1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4015042c.1006122@news.Individual.NET> Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 02:27:29 +0200 Lines: 152 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-201.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <4015d1c6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 27 Jan 2004 04:49:42 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-201.mweb.co.za Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-201.mweb.co.za Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13135 "Garry Williams" wrote in message news:4015042c.1006122@news.Individual.NET... > On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 05:29:30 +0200, "pr" wrote: > > >Placating the doubts about one's true intentions or justifying > >ones deed. It is like a frequent interaction with a "new-age" > >persons who, after I voice an opinion, responds with "that's > >what you think, and that's OK with me." If it is really OK, why > >does it have to be said? > > It may be that what they are saying is a polite way of communicating, > "I accept that you firmly believe this idiotic theory, and, although I > strongly disagree, you're too stupidly blind to the facts for me to > waste my time arguing with you about it." Of course, the complete > reverse might be the case. ;-) Listen to the way it is usually said. > >It is good the hear a fresh voice, and that it tends to come from > >the "disagreeable" side even better. > >You seemed to have run into what I consider the new taboo > >of "expressing ideas with passion, forcefulness and in a > >direct manner". > > I see. So you are saying that the only way to express opposing ideas > with passion, forcefulness, and a direct manner is to call names and > insult people? Don't twist my words. >Is this because insults and name calling increases > communication, or because it gives you a chance to work on your "just > for today, let go of anger", or because it gives you a chance to "be > kind to others"? Or is there some other reason for name calling and > insults that I have overlooked? Would you please break it down for > this dimwitted clod who has to be insulted in order to understand? I would agree that his original attack on Frank Petter was in poor taste, it was harsh and based on hearsay. As to insults, I have re-read the posts and I can find some, but very little that could be considered insulting. On the whole, Sean has responded in quite a civilized manner, except for a few lapses here and there. Things arise together and things decay together, a principle that can be seen in operation right here. > BTW, good manners never go out of style, and this has been true for as > long as there has been civilization. It's part of the human condition. > Of course, there will always be deliberate assholes and insensitive > clods, as well. This, too, is part of the human condition. The > question is, which do you choose to be, and how do you deal with it > when you run into an asshole or insensitive clod? Exactly. Do you think that the majority of respondents would pass the test of good manners and style? > Which is an entirely different question that simply having a > difference of opinion. Some people foolishly think that calling > someone "dearie" is simply expressing an opinion on a given subject in > a forceful, direct manner. Actually, it's just expressing that opinion > in a way that's just plain rude. Actually I find I patronising. It is also clear the he can interact in different ways and so the question is why has it developed in that particular manner. > If you disagree, that's fine and > dandy with me, and I welcome a chance to hear why this is not correct, > but if you have to call me names to get your point across, then you're > simply a boor (talk about the perfect word for just the right > person!). :-) Can you remember me ever calling somebody names? It does not really matter whether I get my point across, as long as I know what my point is, and writing it down may just help me in clarifying things. And since you talk about insults above, you are demonstrating a talent to take it to quite subtle levels, together with an ability to intimidate. However, first of all, the South African word is boer, and although I live in South Africa for decades, I am not South African. It is a good thing you added the smiley afterwards, otherwise you might look a bit foolish. > >Over the last couple of weeks I have contributes far less than > >before because the day before Christmas I got physcially nauseous > >by the very thought of a.h.r and its level of interaction which I see > >as superficial. > > Mirror, mirror on the wall... Thank you for giving such a splendid example of how not to deal with a reported experience, despite it being close to what could probably be seen as the standard response in usenet talk. I don't deny that your response may indeed have something in it, but it is not something to start out with, but at best to end off a long interaction. > Would you like Reiki with that nausea? Not necessary, I usually just acknowledge my experience and observe where it comes from. It will pass too. > > I wonder if there is any person who has adapted, > >or changed their opinions about Reiki, the methods used, or the > >way it works over the last half year? If you did, please post a > >message to that effect. > > I want to hear your story about what's changed for you in the last 6 > months, first. Of course, if you blame others for not being insulting > enough to make you change your ways, I guess you won't have anything > to tell. As you noticed yourself, I have posted a message of what has changed for me. > >How come so many groups dealing with spiritual matters > >are bordering on the inane? > > Pot. Kettle. Black. Instead of cursing the darkness, why not light a > candle? Lead by example? Sure, but look at the response I got from you when I talk about being nauseated. Look at the response I get to my comment here - Pot, kettle, etc. I acknowldege that I may not lead by example so let me add a little light and see what kind of reply I would find more appropriate. How about saying: "Interesting. What would you like to see happen?" "I sense that this group does not fulfil your needs" "You sound quite frustrated" "From what I hear/read you seem to think that spiritual matters are treated too lightly" "Tell me a bit more" "Could you explain this a bit?" Now try this exercise. Make my remark your own, then imagine you saying that to somebody, and then further imagine that the other replies in the way you have, and then do the same using the way I suggest. Then report back, if you wish. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 02:53:14 GMT Lines: 20 From: suzee Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <401489df.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4014FE30.F5E12EE@imbris.com> <4015d1c3.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.moat.net!news-xfer.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13136 pr wrote: > > "suzee" wrote in message > news:4014FE30.F5E12EE@imbris.com... > > pr wrote: > > > > > What is so threatening about Sean's assertions? > > > > Not a thing. It's the manner in which he chose to present them, that is > > by putting other people down. > > You mean like: > "There you go again... Mustn't... Can't.... all these judgement words > you're throwing into reiki. Didn't *your* teacher ever teach you the > first rule of reiki?" I admit my words were not of the best manner in that post. He really pissed me off, though. sue ###### From: gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:06:42 GMT Lines: 30 Message-ID: <4015daba.489724@news.Individual.NET> References: <22522-400F4559-96@storefull-3131.bay.webtv.net> <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401489e1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4015042c.1006122@news.Individual.NET> <4015d1c6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Reply-To: gdwill@earthlink.net NNTP-Posting-Host: user-37ka3rs.dialup.mindspring.com (207.69.15.124) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1075176100 25714021 207.69.15.124 ([218672]) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user-37ka3rs.dialup.mindspring.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13137 On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 02:27:29 +0200, "pr" wrote: >Now try this exercise. Make my remark your own, then imagine >you saying that to somebody, and then further imagine that >the other replies in the way you have, and then do the same >using the way I suggest. >Then report back, if you wish. Actually, I would have normally replied to you in the manner you suggest, as you should know from experience by now. I chose to reply in a different, carefully concocted manner this time because your posts seemed to suggest that it was okay for Sean to post in a manner that many took as just plain rude, but not okay for anyone else to do so, although he claimed to have more Reiki experience than most of us put together. I was curious as to what sort of response my post would provoke in you. Not necessarily your written reply, but what sort of feelings inside. I understood your posts to say that we should simply have taken Sean's insults and condescension in stride without even mentioning the lack of manners. I was curious to see if you could practice what you preach. Now I know. Throughout the exchange, I did not hold any animosity towards you, and if I had, it would have been my problem, not yours. Consider it a test. How did it feel to be tested without necessity? namaste, Garry ###### From: seven Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: faith versus intention Organization: http://seven.postmodern.com Message-ID: <8jtb109k4o6duticde5jjl4dac8081q6p2@4ax.com> References: <40107831.537D5EB8@imbris.com> <4011c6bc.1848409@news.Individual.NET> <4011f59e.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <401489e1.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4015042c.1006122@news.Individual.NET> <4015d1c6.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <4015daba.489724@news.Individual.NET> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.57.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s04 1075181277 67.169.57.204 (Tue, 27 Jan 2004 05:27:57 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 05:27:57 GMT Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 05:27:57 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s04.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:13141 On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 04:06:42 GMT, gdwill@earthlink.net (Garry Williams) wrote: >but not okay for anyone else to do >so, although he claimed to have more Reiki experience than most of us >put together I have to admit, I read only a line or two and moved off the thread... whenever someone starts exercising their bravado on a newsgroup, the notions of insecurity seem all the more evident. Not saying anyone was or wasn't with this mode, just my perception and I have limited time - less to post. I find this an excellent group, by and large, filled with positive and enlightened people. --- http://seven.postmodern.com seven at post modern dot com