X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:56:07 GMT Lines: 95 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news-xfer.cox.net!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!news3.optonline.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8958 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f723527.356913@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:30:26 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > >> You do not have to consciously think about how to make a scratch heal > >> or make your immune system beat an infection. You can influence these > >> things by taking conscious action, but your body is quite capable of > >> doing these things without your meddling. One might assume that the > >> body knows how to utilize healing ki without anyone's conscious > >> planning. > >>Ergo, it is sufficient to send it. > > > >If the body knows how to utilize it without anyone's conscious energy then > >why is nessesary to "send" it? I would think that part of utilization > >would be acquisition, no?:) > > Your body knows how to use water without being told, too, but it still > has to be "sent" to you, no? But that's just thinking on the physical > level. On an energetic level, it's just a matter of consciousness > making an intention, since the ki is already everywhere. "Send" in > that case is just a convenient nickname that we use instead of "we're > setting our intention for you to absorb and utilize healing ki". Or > how do you see it? Thanks for the reply! I guess I'll declare myself. . . . People suffer and die all the time that are in possession of bodies that have access to ki (that might not have had to given a few tools). . Some quick thoughts. . . .I'm not certain I buy the analagy of water to healing energy, but then agian, I'm not sure I buy someone intending much of anything for another that isn't understood by the recipient, as what is given is probably seldom received in the manor it was given.There must (in my opinion) be empowerment of the "unhealthy" individual to heal their own body. Anything else is sheer wishful thinking although the wish for another's healing is a wish for their own. If this is all that is meant by it then please excuse me for the rest. The power in ones healing process is triggered from within and is evolutionary. The posts here like ROTW seem rather frivolous in light of the work, dedication, energy, thought, play, understanding, life force, tears, anger, fear, passion, that goes into healing deeply. ROTW can't supply someone the insight it may take to overcome an illness that a person has been indoctrinated to believe will strip him/her of their very life. . .and even if it did what growth would have taken place to prevent the same from happening again? ROTW seems to be more like a "relax, you'll be fine". . . .or, a pat on the back for confidence or "I wish you the best and highest:" or in some cases it seems a prideful "incantation". Don't get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go along with it. . .action. Like asking a martian for help to heal. .and the martian replies, " oiemndon". .. what the hell do you do with that? I suppose one might open themselves up to the healing power of "oiemndon" and gain some benifit by sheer belief that something good will come of it. Isn't there more help available than that here? I see referrals to medical doctors in here all the time. Do you think people come here to hear that? This group may very well be a last ditch effort . ..seeking some hope, and an alternative to the same ol' "common sense" one can find anywhere outside this newsgroup. I've gone on way too long already and probably said way too much. Perhaps I don't understand the nature of this group. Is it really just for you people that are already in reiki. . .or for the folks that need assistance, or for newbies, or a combination? I haven't even read the FAQ. if there is one. I do see a lot of wisdom, respect and love amongst the people that post here as well as lot of empathy and compassion but rarely is it given to the people that post here wanting help. please pardon the spelling errors as my spell check isn't working. . . .ROTW anyone?:) to the learning. . . . Kevin > Love and Light, > > Garry > > > Of course, I haven't > >> proved anything, just expressed a pet theory with no data to back it. > >> What are your thoughts? > >> > >> Love and Light, > >> > >> Garry > >> > > > > > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 151 Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:43:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.0.96 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064490237 207.69.0.96 (Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:43:57 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 07:43:57 EDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8962 Hi Kevin, On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:56:07 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: > Thanks for the reply! And thank you for the stimulating conversation! >I guess I'll declare myself. . . . >People suffer and die all the time that are in possession of bodies that >have access to ki (that might not have had to given a few tools). . Reiki is gentle and takes time, supporting natural processes (at least in my experience), so for a crisis, other modalities, like conventional medicine, are probably best. But Reiki can help with conventional medicine as an adjunct therapy. That said, I'm not sure I understand what you are referring to when you say that people suffer and die all the time even though they have access to ki. The idea around the reason that they are sick in the first place is because there is a blockage in their ability to absorb or utilize ki. Giving them Reiki removes the blockage and allows the healing process to start moving things back to normal. Of course, sometimes we're past the point of no return, and in those cases Reiki can help us with making our transition with less pain and suffering. > Some quick thoughts. . . .I'm not certain I buy the analagy of water to >healing energy, but then agian, I'm not sure I buy someone intending much of >anything for another that isn't understood by the recipient, as what is >given is probably seldom received in the manor it was given.There must (in >my opinion) be empowerment of the "unhealthy" individual to heal their own >body. Anything else is sheer wishful thinking although the wish for >another's healing is a wish for their own. If this is all that is meant by Usually the recepient requests Reiki for themselves. There have been quite a few debates about the "rightness" or efficacy of sending Reiki to someone who has not requested it. I only know what my teachers have taught me, that one only sends when the intended recipient has requested it. However, I have no information and am not aware of any line of reasoning that would preclude it working for someone who did not request it. My teachers justified what they taught me with reasoning similar to your own, namely that a person who does not want to heal will not. Yet by the same token, we give Reiki to unconscious people, small children, animals and even plants, and it is effective, so where does the self-empowerment of the recipient come from in those cases? I don't know. I'll scratch my head and stand aside while more experienced people argue that one. >it then please excuse me for the rest. The power in ones healing process is >triggered from within and is evolutionary. The posts here like ROTW seem >rather frivolous in light of the work, dedication, energy, thought, play, >understanding, life force, tears, anger, fear, passion, that goes into >healing deeply. ROTW can't supply someone the insight it may take to >overcome an illness that a person has been indoctrinated to believe will >strip him/her of their very life. . .and even if it did what growth would >have taken place to prevent the same from happening again? ROTW seems to be >more like a "relax, you'll be fine". . . .or, a pat on the back for >confidence or "I wish you the best and highest:" or in some cases it seems a >prideful "incantation". Don't get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the Well, those of us who practice Reiki feel there is a little more to it than "relax, you'll be fine". You seem to be discounting any physical/mental/emotional effect from the act of giving Reiki. I have an elderly friend who lives quite some distance away from me who has told me that I can send her Reiki any time I can spare a moment because she's almost always in pain (fibromyalgia and a host of other issues). I don't have to tell her when I send her Reiki, I can just do it, and often times she will write me the next day and say, "You sent me some Reiki last night, didn't you? I can get down the stairs so much better today and feel so much better." And she's right. She's never "accused" me of sending Reiki when I didn't. She can feel what it does for her. Last year I worked with a cancer patient (this was in person, rather than distant healing) for an extended period. He was on chemotherapy, but it made him feel exhausted and depressed. He told me that the Reiki sessions boosted his energy and his spirits. The first couple of times I worked with him, he felt cold and weak and I was afraid he might not make it. But by the third session he warmed up and started gaining strength and his progress was constantly up, up, up. During the course of the time I was working with him, his wife died unexpectedly of cancer (no one knew she had it, and it was over and done with within a week's time), but even that didn't set him back, although he was certainly very saddened and lonely. I felt (though I have no proof) that the Reiki helped support him through this crisis, as well. So there's more to it than just wishing someone well or wishing for one's own healing (although one's own healing is certainly part of every session). >power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go >along with it. . .action. Like asking a martian for help to heal. .and the >martian replies, " oiemndon". .. what the hell do you do with that? I OOTW? OTOH, no martians have come down and attuned and trained me in that modality, so I better not fake it. >suppose one might open themselves up to the healing power of "oiemndon" and >gain some benifit by sheer belief that something good will come of it. Isn't >there more help available than that here? I see referrals to medical doctors >in here all the time. Do you think people come here to hear that? This group >may very well be a last ditch effort . ..seeking some hope, and an >alternative to the same ol' "common sense" one can find anywhere outside When medical doctors are mentioned, it's for good reasons. It's not our job to diagnose anyone's illness (and no real doctor would do so on the basis of what was read in a newsgroup). The idea is to make sure that the patient isn't abandoning the "common sense" stuff. No one here would tell anyone to stop seeing their doctor and expect to be cured overnight with a single ROTW. So for whatever reason they come, it's probably better for them in this context to take away a balanced approach, conventional therapies supported by spiritual healing. >this newsgroup. I've gone on way too long already and probably said way too >much. Perhaps I don't understand the nature of this group. Is it really just >for you people that are already in reiki. . .or for the folks that need >assistance, or for newbies, or a combination? I haven't even read the FAQ. It's for anyone with an interest in Reiki, whether they be people in need of help, new practitioners, seasoned veterans, or just people who want to find out more about it. Don't worry about the FAQ--I haven't read it either and I've been posting here for a while now. I've made it a habit over the past 10-15 years of not reading newsgroup FAQ's. Excuse me while I bolt for the exit to avoid the incoming. >if there is one. I do see a lot of wisdom, respect and love amongst the >people that post here as well as lot of empathy and compassion but rarely is >it given to the people that post here wanting help. Really? Have you searched the archives and done any kind of counting or statistics to back that up? Can you give a few examples? I'm sure we would all want to know if that is the case. >please pardon the spelling errors as my spell check isn't working. . . .ROTW >anyone?:) Someone forwarded me an email the other day, something about it doesn't really matter if the letters are in exactly the correct order, as long as the first and last letters are in the right place, the message will be readable. All the wrods in the msesgae wree tpyed taht way, but it was stlil easy to raed. :-) >to the learning. . . . Amen! Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:11:14 GMT Lines: 311 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8956 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net... > Hi Kevin, Thanks Gary. . . you are delightfully patient! > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 04:56:07 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > > Thanks for the reply! > > And thank you for the stimulating conversation! > > >I guess I'll declare myself. . . . > >People suffer and die all the time that are in possession of bodies that > >have access to ki (that might not have had to given a few tools). . > > Reiki is gentle and takes time, supporting natural processes (at least > in my experience), so for a crisis, other modalities, like > conventional medicine, are probably best. But Reiki can help with > conventional medicine as an adjunct therapy. No doubt that is true. Many of the posts I've seen on here seeking aid are people in crises. If not themselves physically, it is them emotionally because they are worried about a loved one or friend. That worry reflects a helplessness and drives people seeking something more. . . of a higher nature. > That said, I'm not sure I understand what you are referring to when > you say that people suffer and die all the time even though they have > access to ki. All I am aiming to say is that *all* people have access to ki or the healing energy, no? and their body knows what to do with it. But many people still remain "sick" even though they have access and could utilize it. Sending ki in that situation is helpfull how? >The idea around the reason that they are sick in the > first place is because there is a blockage in their ability to absorb > or utilize ki. Ok. . .My father was a reiki practitioner and talked much about this "blockage" you refer to. Although I saw him work over the years on his own physical problems (and given I couldn't see inside him to understand the changes if any he was going through) it appeared to me that he was attempting to "envoke" somthing in his life that he didn't understand. And although he claimed benifits I never saw any. I do not believe that one can truly heal without being able to detect a change in nature. Some people want to heal without having to change a thing in their life, whether the change is due to a specific treatment or the change *is* the treatment. >Giving them Reiki removes the blockage and allows the > healing process to start moving things back to normal. Gary with all respect to you and at the same time with due respect to *my own* healing process, this sounds like such a nice pat cliche. I am learning what it takes to heal a thing and it isn't having someone send you something intangible that miraculesly removes "blockages" that allow the healing process. If a person undertook this for him/her self with the intention of healing that is a whole other ball game but to have someone send you something that aids in removing blocks leaving the intended recipient free to carry on. . .well. . . Love doesn't move Gary. >Of course, > sometimes we're past the point of no return, and in those cases Reiki > can help us with making our transition with less pain and suffering. Your belief is the most beautiful thing about your post. > > Some quick thoughts. . . .I'm not certain I buy the analagy of water to > >healing energy, but then agian, I'm not sure I buy someone intending much of > >anything for another that isn't understood by the recipient, as what is > >given is probably seldom received in the manor it was given.There must (in > >my opinion) be empowerment of the "unhealthy" individual to heal their own > >body. Anything else is sheer wishful thinking although the wish for > >another's healing is a wish for their own. If this is all that is meant by > > Usually the recepient requests Reiki for themselves. There have been > quite a few debates about the "rightness" or efficacy of sending Reiki > to someone who has not requested it. Doubt it would hurt but doubt it would help. There is a psychology about wanting to give aid to people that aren't asking but for the most part it seems to me that this action effects the "sender" more profoundly than anything else. > I only know what my teachers have > taught me, that one only sends when the intended recipient has > requested it. However, I have no information and am not aware of any > line of reasoning that would preclude it working for someone who did > not request it. My teachers justified what they taught me with > reasoning similar to your own, namely that a person who does not want > to heal will not. Yet by the same token, we give Reiki to unconscious > people, small children, animals and even plants, and it is effective, Unconsciosness and not wanting it or sheer disbelief are two different things, maybe we just don't know what's going on inside. > so where does the self-empowerment of the recipient come from in those > cases? I don't know. I'll scratch my head and stand aside while more > experienced people argue that one. There are I believe underlieing causes (just as you believe) of dis-ease. These "patterns" often take years to develope and in these cases take repetitious "unduing" as well. There are the accute problems that are temporarily effected by simply interupting a pattern (thought or otherwise). > >it then please excuse me for the rest. The power in ones healing process is > >triggered from within and is evolutionary. The posts here like ROTW seem > >rather frivolous in light of the work, dedication, energy, thought, play, > >understanding, life force, tears, anger, fear, passion, that goes into > >healing deeply. ROTW can't supply someone the insight it may take to > >overcome an illness that a person has been indoctrinated to believe will > >strip him/her of their very life. . .and even if it did what growth would > >have taken place to prevent the same from happening again? ROTW seems to be > >more like a "relax, you'll be fine". . . .or, a pat on the back for > >confidence or "I wish you the best and highest:" or in some cases it seems a > >prideful "incantation". Don't get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the > > Well, those of us who practice Reiki feel there is a little more to it > than "relax, you'll be fine". You seem to be discounting any > physical/mental/emotional effect from the act of giving Reiki. It is just that many of the posts I have seen here Gary are people that are in crises and need perhaps tools of their own to work with. I do not discount any effect from the act of giving Reiki. I simply believe in most cases it would be a "bandaid" on a severed artery. >I have > an elderly friend who lives quite some distance away from me who has > told me that I can send her Reiki any time I can spare a moment > because she's almost always in pain (fibromyalgia and a host of other > issues). I don't have to tell her when I send her Reiki, I can just do > it, and often times she will write me the next day and say, "You sent > me some Reiki last night, didn't you? I can get down the stairs so > much better today and feel so much better." And she's right. She's > never "accused" me of sending Reiki when I didn't. She can feel what > it does for her. This is a wonderful thing and I am glad there are people like you aiding others. I also believe she does know when it is sent because she does feel better. And ea. time you send it she feels better, but wouldln't it be fantastic if she could heal this "cronic" problem herself and for good by interupting the pattern that holds her there to begin with? You cannot do that for her. These are changes she must realize and make. Her belief in your ability to "send" Reiki must be powerful as well as her belief that you have her highest good in mind. > Last year I worked with a cancer patient (this was in > person, rather than distant healing) for an extended period. He was on > chemotherapy, but it made him feel exhausted and depressed. He told me > that the Reiki sessions boosted his energy and his spirits. This, I know, is very important. But more importantly, is to know that *you* are empowered and do effect your own healing either positively or neg. by your own thought, words and actions. Others become dependent on you and what they belief you can do for them. The most important role in empowering oneself is to know that *we are not as victims unaware* To have someone aid someone repeatedly over again is not good for the client or the practicioner. I am not accusing you of this but it is worth mentioning. >The first > couple of times I worked with him, he felt cold and weak and I was > afraid he might not make it. But by the third session he warmed up and > started gaining strength and his progress was constantly up, up, up. > During the course of the time I was working with him, his wife died > unexpectedly of cancer (no one knew she had it, and it was over and > done with within a week's time), but even that didn't set him back, > although he was certainly very saddened and lonely. I felt (though I > have no proof) that the Reiki helped support him through this crisis, > as well. And so it did. > So there's more to it than just wishing someone well or wishing for > one's own healing (although one's own healing is certainly part of > every session). Can you please tell me how this is so? > >power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go > >along with it. . .action. Like asking a martian for help to heal. .and the > >martian replies, " oiemndon". .. what the hell do you do with that? I > > OOTW? Sorry, don't understand the abbreviation. . . >OTOH, no martians have come down and attuned and trained me in > that modality, so I better not fake it. LOL > >suppose one might open themselves up to the healing power of "oiemndon" and > >gain some benifit by sheer belief that something good will come of it. Isn't > >there more help available than that here? I see referrals to medical doctors > >in here all the time. Do you think people come here to hear that? This group > >may very well be a last ditch effort . ..seeking some hope, and an > >alternative to the same ol' "common sense" one can find anywhere outside > > When medical doctors are mentioned, it's for good reasons. It's not > our job to diagnose anyone's illness (and no real doctor would do so > on the basis of what was read in a newsgroup). Hmmmm.. . .now you can diagnose yourself and prescribe by simply turning on the boob tube and rushing down to the doctor's office to report which prescription drug you saw on a commercial you think would help you. > The idea is to make > sure that the patient isn't abandoning the "common sense" stuff. when "common sense" stuff isn't working. . . . >No > one here would tell anyone to stop seeing their doctor and expect to > be cured overnight with a single ROTW. So it might take three dozen. . .. it seems like the power of Reiki is played down in that respect. So for whatever reason they > come, it's probably better for them in this context to take away a > balanced approach, conventional therapies supported by spiritual > healing. I guess the operative words are " in this context". For example: Chemo- theropy is poison. The hope is that it kills the enemy prior to killing you. What about this barbaric method is worth your support as a healer or contains a lick of common sense? > >this newsgroup. I've gone on way too long already and probably said way too > >much. Perhaps I don't understand the nature of this group. Is it really just > >for you people that are already in reiki. . .or for the folks that need > >assistance, or for newbies, or a combination? I haven't even read the FAQ. > > It's for anyone with an interest in Reiki, or healing? >whether they be people in > need of help, new practitioners, seasoned veterans, or just people who > want to find out more about it. Don't worry about the FAQ--I haven't > read it either and I've been posting here for a while now. I've made > it a habit over the past 10-15 years of not reading newsgroup FAQ's. > Excuse me while I bolt for the exit to avoid the incoming. > > >if there is one. I do see a lot of wisdom, respect and love amongst the > >people that post here as well as lot of empathy and compassion but rarely is > >it given to the people that post here wanting help. > > Really? Have you searched the archives and done any kind of counting > or statistics to back that up? Sorry, I was reffering to the sharing of wisdom to aid in healing. The rest is obviously shared. >Can you give a few examples? I'm sure > we would all want to know if that is the case. > > >please pardon the spelling errors as my spell check isn't working. . . .ROTW > >anyone?:) > > Someone forwarded me an email the other day, something about it > doesn't really matter if the letters are in exactly the correct order, > as long as the first and last letters are in the right place, the > message will be readable. All the wrods in the msesgae wree tpyed taht > way, but it was stlil easy to raed. :-) LOL Tanhks Grya! It has been a plaseur:) > >to the learning. . . . > > Amen! > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 274 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 01:47:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.32.166 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064540837 207.69.32.166 (Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:47:17 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:47:17 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8968 On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:11:14 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: > >"Nadie Niemand" wrote in message >news:3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net... >> Hi Kevin, > >Thanks Gary. . . you are delightfully patient! Apparently you missed some of my posts the last few times some crossposting trolls blew through here, and then there's the time I ranted at one of the "Old Ones" of this newsgroup...but thanks, anyways. You're no slouch yourself. :-) >>The idea around the reason that they are sick in the >> first place is because there is a blockage in their ability to absorb >> or utilize ki. > >Ok. . .My father was a reiki practitioner and talked much about this >"blockage" you refer to. Although I saw him work over the years on his own >physical problems (and given I couldn't see inside him to understand the >changes if any he was going through) it appeared to me that he was >attempting to "envoke" somthing in his life that he didn't understand. And >although he claimed benifits I never saw any. I do not believe that one can >truly heal without being able to detect a change in nature. Some people want >to heal without having to change a thing in their life, whether the change >is due to a specific treatment or the change *is* the treatment. I understand what you mean if you are speaking of people looking for a "magic bullet" to take away their pain without having to reform what they are doing to cause it. As for the benefits that were claimed by your father, and I hope I'm not picking open any scabs here, might it be that they related to feelings of tranquility and love and the feeling that all is as it should be, no matter how bad things may look on the outside? Those sorts of feelings can be some of the benefits of practicing Reiki. You said your father practiced Reiki for many years, so you must be familiar with the 5 precepts? Reiki is as much a way of living as it is anything else. Or at least that's what I've been taught and have experienced. Others may have other views and experiences. >>Giving them Reiki removes the blockage and allows the >> healing process to start moving things back to normal. > >Gary with all respect to you and at the same time with due respect to *my >own* healing process, this sounds like such a nice pat cliche. I am learning Thank you for your tact. Yes, it sounds like a pat cliche, even to me. I was very skeptical of Reiki before I experienced it, and the usual explanations of how it works doesn't sound kosher to the Western, "scientific" ear. >what it takes to heal a thing and it isn't having someone send you something >intangible that miraculesly removes "blockages" that allow the healing >process. If a person undertook this for him/her self with the intention of >healing that is a whole other ball game but to have someone send you >something that aids in removing blocks leaving the intended recipient free >to carry on. . .well. . . >Love doesn't move Gary. Hmmm, with all due respect, when I send or receive Reiki, it doesn't feel intangible to me. Something is certainly happening. I must admit I cannot state with absolute certainty the exact method of its operation, but something is happening. Or perhaps I (and a lot of other Reiki practitioners, as well as qigong healers, and others) are all just deluding ourselves with similar hallucinations? That could very well be the case, but at the present time, I honestly don't think so. As for "miraculously" removing a blockage leaving someone free to carry on, I'm wondering if you are thinking about questions of whether or not one is just allowing someone to continue to abuse themselves, assuming their pain was self-inflicted. But is it always self-inflicted? If someone has contracted a virus, say, from having been close to someone else who was sick, would it be a bad thing to help them get over it faster if you could? Or would it just be compassion? And if their pain was self-inflicted, what if "removing the blockage" enabled them to see what they were doing to themselves and take positive action? Sometimes the best way to help someone is to force them to go it alone, but other times a helping hand is needed. BTW, there was a time when I would have been asking the same questions you are asking now, but my experience so far of Reiki has engendered trust in its ability to bring to light the issues that need attention. >>Of course, >> sometimes we're past the point of no return, and in those cases Reiki >> can help us with making our transition with less pain and suffering. > >Your belief is the most beautiful thing about your post. I admit I have no personal experience to back this up. My belief is based on what other, more experienced practitioners have posted in this newsgroup about their experiences in the hospice setting. These are people that I know well enough that I see no reason to doubt them. I do not, however, expect you to believe so just on 3rd hand say-so. >> Usually the recepient requests Reiki for themselves. There have been >> quite a few debates about the "rightness" or efficacy of sending Reiki >> to someone who has not requested it. > > Doubt it would hurt but doubt it would help. There is a psychology about >wanting to give aid to people that aren't asking but for the most part it >seems to me that this action effects the "sender" more profoundly than >anything else. I see pretty much eye to eye with you on that point, but again, as one of the more junior practitioners here, I will leave it in the hands of the more experienced for now. > Unconsciosness and not wanting it or sheer disbelief are two different >things, maybe we just don't know what's going on inside. Not wanting it and sheer disbelief are two different things, as well. Disbelief does not seem to hinder the efficacy of Reiki, whereas not wanting it does seem to be enough to stop it. In any case, when do we ever know what's going on inside someone else? We're hard pressed even to know what's going on inside our ownselves! :-) >> Well, those of us who practice Reiki feel there is a little more to it >> than "relax, you'll be fine". You seem to be discounting any >> physical/mental/emotional effect from the act of giving Reiki. > > It is just that many of the posts I have seen here Gary are people that >are in crises and need perhaps tools of their own to work with. I do not >discount any effect from the act of giving Reiki. I simply believe in most >cases it would be a "bandaid" on a severed artery. Hypothetical questions about efficacy aside, if all you could offer was a bandaid and some soothing words, would you refuse to give them, even though the person has come to you as a last resort after all else has failed him? > This is a wonderful thing and I am glad there are people like you aiding >others. I also believe she does know when it is sent because she does feel >better. And ea. time you send it she feels better, but wouldln't it be >fantastic if she could heal this "cronic" problem herself and for good by >interupting the pattern that holds her there to begin with? You cannot do >that for her. These are changes she must realize and make. Her belief in >your ability to "send" Reiki must be powerful as well as her belief that you >have her highest good in mind. You are correct that it would be better if she could heal this chronic problem herself. I have known this woman for many years before I started to learn Reiki. She used to be a much stronger individual, both physically and character-wise. I attempted to empower her to heal herself by first asking to teach her taiji, then when she said she couldn't do that, by teaching her Reiki. However, her need for human companionship and warmth seem to overwhelm her desire to get well. She is in a bad relationship, which I'm sure contributes heavily to the stress in her life, which in turn contributes to the severity of her physical problems. She "forgets" how to do her self-Reiki and prefers to have me give it to her. Trust me, I have no desire to be her "dealer" when she needs a "fix", but all I have to offer her is my friendship and compassion. Until she can motivate herself to free herself of her situation, I'm afraid she will never improve her health. OTOH, she knows this herself, so it's just a matter of when she decides that enough is enough. Am I holding her back? I've thought long and hard about it, and I honestly don't think so. >This, I know, is very important. But more importantly, is to know that *you* >are empowered and do effect your own healing either positively or neg. by >your own thought, words and actions. Others become dependent on you and what >they belief you can do for them. The most important role in empowering >oneself is to know that *we are not as victims unaware* To have someone aid >someone repeatedly over again is not good for the client or the >practicioner. I am not accusing you of this but it is worth mentioning. It's good to have it brought up and kept in mind. Thanks for mentioning it. >> So there's more to it than just wishing someone well or wishing for >> one's own healing (although one's own healing is certainly part of >> every session). > > Can you please tell me how this is so? Which part? The part about more to it than wishing someone well, or the part about self-healing being part of every session? >> >power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go >> >along with it. . .action. Like asking a martian for help to heal. .and >the >> >martian replies, " oiemndon". .. what the hell do you do with that? I >> > >> OOTW? > > Sorry, don't understand the abbreviation. . . Oiemndon On The Way :-) >>OTOH, no martians have come down and attuned and trained me in >> that modality, so I better not fake it. > > LOL > So for whatever reason they >> come, it's probably better for them in this context to take away a >> balanced approach, conventional therapies supported by spiritual >> healing. > > > I guess the operative words are " in this context". For example: Chemo- >theropy is poison. The hope is that it kills the enemy prior to killing you. >What about this barbaric method is worth your support as a healer or >contains a lick of common sense? Alas, since I'm not a medical doctor, my opinion doesn't count for jack from a medical or legal perspective. Personally, I try to avoid taking any sort of these "modern medicines". When my blood pressure and cholesterol were sky high, my doctor wanted to prescribe expensive medication for me and expected me to take it for the rest of my life. I ignored him, started working on changing my diet and exercise habits and am making improvements. Blood pressure is normal and cholesterol is changing in the right direction (although I understand that cholesterol is not the miracle risk predictor they once thought). But if I were to tell someone that they should not be taking cholesterol and blood pressure medication, I could be slapped with a lawsuit for practicing medicine without a license that I would lose and regret forever after. What's the legal climate like where you live? >> >this newsgroup. I've gone on way too long already and probably said way >too >> >much. Perhaps I don't understand the nature of this group. Is it really >just >> >for you people that are already in reiki. . .or for the folks that need >> >assistance, or for newbies, or a combination? I haven't even read the >FAQ. >> >> It's for anyone with an interest in Reiki, > > or healing? Or healing. :-) >> >if there is one. I do see a lot of wisdom, respect and love amongst the >> >people that post here as well as lot of empathy and compassion but rarely >is >> >it given to the people that post here wanting help. >> >> Really? Have you searched the archives and done any kind of counting >> or statistics to back that up? > > Sorry, I was reffering to the sharing of wisdom to aid in healing. The rest >is obviously shared. What sort of wisdom in particular? I've seen advice and shared personal experiences a plenty for as long as I've been subscribed to this newsgroup. >Tanhks Grya! It has been a plaseur:) And a pleasure for me as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and best wishes for your healing process. And since you didn't ask for Reiki, I haven't sent it. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Lines: 153 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:44:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.150.239 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1064547886 162.84.150.239 (Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:44:46 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:44:46 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!nntp.theplanet.net!inewsm1.nntp.theplanet.net!195.40.4.120.MISMATCH!easynet-quince!easynet.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8965 totally interesting and thought provoking ideas from both of you! i just wanted to extract and comment on only a few things (though there is much to think about): "I guess the operative words are " in this context". For example: Chemo- theropy is poison. The hope is that it kills the enemy prior to killing you." i agree that poisoning one's body doesn't make much sense, but it works for some people and for some ends up as their only hope. if it gets to that point where a person "requires" chemotherapy, they can't much help the fact that they live in a society with a certain paradigm about health and disease. their body has already bought into it and their doctors and health insurance companies have already decided what their options are. people know only what they are taught and have access only to what is available to them. when modalities like reiki become available to them as well that is a great thing. perhaps it's indicative of the fact that there is a paradigm shift occuring, but a huge overhaul just won't happen overnight. "What about this barbaric method is worth your support as a healer or contains a lick of common sense?" it's not the method that is worth the support of a healer, its the person who is suffering and is in need of the support. some people may choose not to recieve chemo--for them that may be an empowering choice even if it means death. for others *not* choosing chemo (and choosing other methods) may be empowering enough of a choice to provoke healing. but those who do choose to recieve chemo and see it as their only option certainly deserve support too. does the healer desert the person who is a victim not only of disease but also of the "cure"? --as for the issue of empowerment and people taking on responsibility for their own healing (brought up not quite in those words)--i agree completely that that is a necessary part of healing but i also believe that asking another for reiki can be empowering. i can draw only from my own experience to try to illustrate that: before i knew what reiki was i certainly didn't have it as a tool. what tools did i have for my physical suffering? the opportunity to make an appointment with an md that participates in my overpriced health insurance plan. for some people that works. for me it left me with more frustration, confusion and very few answers about *minor* health concerns that aren't life threatening, can't be measured by their blood tests and therefore aren't worth the doctor's time. no matter to the dr's that i felt these things affected my quality of life and overall well-being. this approach takes my power way. what tools did i have for my emotional baggage? psychotherapy, paid for out of my pocket--despite the health insurance i resentfully paid for ($250 a month for health insurance through cobra and i dont even know what that means). empowering for a while to say "my mental health is important enough to me that i can put my hard earned money toward improving it." even more empowering when i came to the realization that it no longer satisfied my needs and i made the decision to stop. then exploring the issue of diet gave me another tool, that to some degree helped some physical ailments and some emotional stuff too. then came some forms of energy work that helped, but which did keep me believing i was dependent on the practitioner. it was empowering however to say to my parents with whom i lived "no this (energy) doctor is not a fraud, no i don't need to see another md whose going to give me a pill for my yeast infection, another whose going to give me a pill for my allergy symptoms, another who is going to give me a pill to decrease my anxiety level, and yet another whose going to tell me to take iboprofin for back pain. and yes this really does work and the expense is worth it to me" breaking away from what i have been spoon fed has definitely been empowering. one new tool led to the discovery of another eventually leading me to reiki. initially there seemed this potential to become dependent on the practitioner, until she told me i could learn this myself and should. not long after i realized she was right. so now i can offer reiki to myself. is it the last stop on the line? no. a magic bullet? no way. there are other things i need to explore-- but this has provided a comforting tool for me and has invoked alot of shifts in me. the healing is subtle and certainly not complete, but it is genuine. in the meantime i can ask others to support my own efforts to support my healing (and sometimes that means asking others to send reiki) and for me personally doing so involves more growth than dependence because i used to be very stubborn and have way too much pride to ask another for help. did not want to appear vulnerable to others. the fact that i can now ask another for help and support with my healing is growth i am proud of really. there is strength in vulnerability, and i also recognize that in reaching out to others to ask for help i may be offering help to them in some way too. when an *active* choice is made to do *something* (whether that be asking for reiki, offering self reiki, meditating, seeing a different doctor, taking herbs, going sky diving, climb mt. fuji, whatever) i think its empowering. when a passive choice is made to do something because its what others have done before or because it's what others have told you to do, i don't believe there is much healing power in that. the healing experiences will be unique to the individual and will come in different ways. "The power in ones healing process is triggered from within and is evolutionary. . ." for me reiki directed by myself, and by others is part of that evolutionary process. "The posts here like ROTW seem rather frivolous in light of the work, dedication, energy, thought, play, understanding, life force, tears, anger, fear, passion, that goes into healing deeply." this isn't quite your point, but yes, the abreviation can sound trite. it can imply that no thought went into it and that the concern isn't worth much time or energy. maybe sometimes that is the case. but each rotw feels different to me and none of them really feel too trite or frivolous to me. some feel like genuine energy, some feel like the pat on the back or the hand to hold. some feel like a couple of alphabet letters. but why not add the rotw to the list of "work, dedication, energy, thought , play . . . etc." that goes into healing deeply? isn't part of it? "ROTW can't supply someone the insight it may take to overcome an illness that a person has been indoctrinated to believe will strip him/her of their very life. . .and even if it did what growth would have taken place to prevent the same from happening again? ROTW seems to be more like a "relax, you'll be fine". . . .or, a pat on the back for confidence or "I wish you the best and highest:" or in some cases it seems a prideful "incantation". Don't get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go along with it. . .action." perhaps it can't supply the insight, and yes a bit of wisdom is often helpful, but perhaps sometimes it's better to invoke a little reiki than to impart your wisdom and impose it on another. if the insights are to come from within the person seeking the healing there is no need to taint that with your own ideas about how that person should heal. the wisdom is not the action, the sending of the rieki is the action. ok, well forgive me for going on. i don't make my points as succinctly as garry or others do. and well, my written communication issue in this forum goes beyond spelling errors. forgive me for all of that. please. . . and do send some reiki if you can maybe it will help ;) -ginger ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f740cf6.1537705@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 25 Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:10:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.1.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064571044 207.69.1.30 (Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:10:44 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:10:44 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8969 On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:44:46 GMT, "gingerobyn" wrote: >ok, well forgive me for going on. i don't make my points as >succinctly as garry or others do. and well, my written >communication issue in this forum goes beyond spelling errors. >forgive me for all of that. please. . . and do send some reiki if >you can maybe it will help ;) Don't put yourself down, Ginger, you have expressed your wisdom quite eloquently! Plus it's a pleasure to see you posting again; you've been missed! I tried to send you an e-mail, but the only address I have is the "throwaway" one, and it bounced. Anyways, sorry to hear of your recent loss. Hope the family is starting to recover even if just a little? I sent the 2nd degree attunement you had requested not long before I had read your message about your godfather passing on untimely, so you probably didn't even get to enjoy it. Sorry 'bout that. A "booster shot" can be arranged if you like. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f740cf6.1537705@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Lines: 36 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <692db.6057$yU5.3790@nwrdny01.gnilink.net> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:25:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.197.142 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1064611522 162.84.197.142 (Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:25:22 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:25:22 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8985 oh wow, thanks garry. apparently your message did come through but i hadn't checked that account. now it's over limit with offers to mortagage my home, bestow me with degrees, enahance my genitalia and fulfill my sexual fantasies. that would explain any bouncing back of real mail. i will respond to that message instead of writing much more here. totally respect your wish not to become the fairy godmother of attunements! "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f740cf6.1537705@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 03:44:46 GMT, "gingerobyn" > wrote: > > > > >ok, well forgive me for going on. i don't make my points as > >succinctly as garry or others do. and well, my written > >communication issue in this forum goes beyond spelling errors. > >forgive me for all of that. please. . . and do send some reiki if > >you can maybe it will help ;) > > Don't put yourself down, Ginger, you have expressed your wisdom quite > eloquently! Plus it's a pleasure to see you posting again; you've been > missed! I tried to send you an e-mail, but the only address I have is > the "throwaway" one, and it bounced. Anyways, sorry to hear of your > recent loss. Hope the family is starting to recover even if just a > little? I sent the 2nd degree attunement you had requested not long > before I had read your message about your godfather passing on > untimely, so you probably didn't even get to enjoy it. Sorry 'bout > that. A "booster shot" can be arranged if you like. > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:41:38 GMT Lines: 251 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8973 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:OCOcb.4676$541.2290@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > totally interesting and thought provoking ideas from both of you! > > i just wanted to extract and comment on only a few things (though there is > much to think about): > > "I guess the operative words are " in this context". For example: Chemo- > therapy is poison. The hope is that it kills the enemy prior to killing > you." > > i agree that poisoning one's body doesn't make much sense, but it > works for some people and for some ends up as their only hope. if > it gets to that point where a person "requires" chemotherapy, they > can't much help the fact that they live in a society with a certain > paradigm about health and disease. their body has already bought > into it and their doctors and health insurance companies have > already decided what their options are. people know only what > they are taught Ginger, that is not the truth. People teach themselves things all the time. There are always lessons to be learned in life with no reference for them, aren't there? >and have access only to what is available to them. > when modalities like reiki become available to them as well that is > a great thing. perhaps it's indicative of the fact that there is a > paradigm shift occurring, but a huge overhaul just won't happen > overnight. > "What about this barbaric method is worth your support as a healer > or contains a lick of common sense?" > > it's not the method that is worth the support of a healer, its the > person who is suffering and is in need of the support. ginger, it is difficult to argue your logic. It is true the suffering person needs the support and they have come here to find it only in many cases referred back to the MD ( and of course ROTW.) You mentioned above, ", they > can't much help the fact that they live in a society with a certain > paradigm about health and disease. their body has already bought > into it and their doctors and health insurance companies have > already decided what their options are. people know only what > they are taught and have access only to what is available to them. " I would simply say that when you refer someone back to the ways of an allopath, you are contributing and participating in the very paradigm that you speak of above. When your reference is back to that modality, then it is not only "them" who have bought that reality and perpetuate it, no? >some people > may choose not to receive chemo--for them that may be an > empowering choice even if it means death. for others *not* > choosing chemo (and choosing other methods) may be empowering > enough of a choice to provoke healing. but those who do choose to > receive chemo and see it as their only option certainly deserve > support too. Yes, absolutely. . .well said but the support that was wanted by *you* was ROTW. The modalities are different. . .way different The approaches are different. . . way different. Why mix the two when it isn't necessary? Betcha the doctor didn't recommend you:) >does the healer desert the person who is a victim not > only of disease but also of the "cure"? Oh my god. . . try not to mince words ok???!!!!:) It is my soul felt conviction that as I've stated in the post to Gary *it is not as victims we are unaware* This statement is *incredibly* powerful and would take some explaining if you're interested. So, to me, your question tells me that you do believe in victims.Tell me Ginger, how does one take responsibility for a ":random act" of fate like an illness? How can one put logic to heal into a "random act " like cancer? How can one manage responsibility for recovery when recovery would also be a "random act"? Is reiki the only stable thing in existence? Is love random? You see, your question (to me) holds the key to this whole conversation and why compassion is so important to you. . . . . . for you, the Universe operates randomly where you too are a potential victim. >asking another for reiki can be empowering. > i can draw only from my own experience to try to illustrate that: > > before i knew what reiki was i certainly didn't have it as a tool. > what tools did i have for my physical suffering? the opportunity to > make an appointment with an md that participates in my overpriced > health insurance plan. for some people that works. for me it left me > with more frustration, confusion and very few answers about > *minor* health concerns that aren't life threatening, can't be > measured by their blood tests and therefore aren't worth the > doctor's time. no matter to the dr's that i felt these things affected > my quality of life and overall well-being. this approach takes my > power way. > what tools did i have for my emotional baggage? > psychotherapy, paid for out of my pocket--despite the health > insurance i resentfully paid for ($250 a month for health insurance > through cobra and i dont even know what that means). empowering > for a while to say "my mental health is important enough to me that > i can put my hard earned money toward improving it." yes, yes, yes,. . so, intentions are not random? We can own them? >even > more empowering when i came to the realization that it no longer > satisfied my needs and i made the decision to stop. then exploring > the issue of diet gave me another tool, that to some degree > helped some physical ailments and some emotional stuff too. then > came some forms of energy work that helped, but which did > keep me believing i was dependent on the practitioner. it was > empowering however to say to my parents with whom i lived "no > this (energy) doctor is not a fraud, no i don't need to see another md > whose going to give me a pill for my yeast infection, another > whose going to give me a pill for my allergy symptoms, another > who is going to give me a pill to decrease my anxiety level, and yet > another whose going to tell me to take iboprofin for back pain. and > yes this really does work and the expense is worth it to me" > breaking away from what i have been spoon fed has definitely been > empowering. one new tool led to the discovery of another > eventually leading me to reiki. This story of yours is incredibly empowering! >initially there seemed this potential > to become dependent on the practitioner, until she told me i could > learn this myself and should. This is a good point and one that could be utilized right here in this news group. >not long after i realized she was right. > so now i can offer reiki to myself. is it the last stop on the line? no. > a magic bullet? no way. there are other things i need to explore-- > but this has provided a comforting tool for me and has invoked alot > of shifts in me. the healing is subtle and certainly not complete, but > it is genuine. in the meantime i can ask others to support my own > efforts to support my healing (and sometimes that means asking > others to send reiki) and for me personally doing so involves more > growth than dependence because i used to be very stubborn and > have way too much pride to ask another for help. Yes, i know ego will stand in the way of many things and usually there are major breakthroughs when it is put out of the drivers seat:) >did not want to > appear vulnerable to others. the fact that i can now ask another for > help and support with my healing is growth i am proud of really. > there is strength in vulnerability You said a mouthful!!!! , and i also recognize that in > reaching out to others to ask for help i may be offering help to them > in some way too. > > when an *active* choice is made to do *something* (whether that > be asking for reiki, offering self reiki, meditating, seeing a > different doctor, taking herbs, going sky diving, climb mt. fuji, > whatever) i think its empowering. when a passive choice is made > to do something because its what others have done before or > because it's what others have told you to do, i don't believe there is > much healing power in that. the healing experiences will be unique > to the individual and will come in different ways. > > "The power in ones healing process is triggered from within and is > evolutionary. . ." > > for me reiki directed by myself, and by others is part of that > evolutionary process. reiki is intent responsive in healing but people are victims when they become ill? I am in deep respect of your sharing your journey of healing. Thank you, i consider it a gift.You are a shining light. > "The posts here like ROTW seem rather frivolous in light of the > work, dedication, energy, thought, play, understanding, life force, > tears, anger, fear, passion, that goes into healing deeply." > > this isn't quite your point, >but yes, the abbreviation can sound trite. it > can imply that no thought went into it and that the concern isn't > worth much time or energy. maybe sometimes that is the case. but > each rotw feels different to me and none of them really feel too > trite or frivolous to me. some feel like genuine energy, some feel > like the pat on the back or the hand to hold. some feel like a couple > of alphabet letters. but why not add the rotw to the list of "work, > dedication, energy, thought , play . . . etc." that goes into healing > deeply? isn't part of it? If it is part of yours then it is!:) > "ROTW can't supply someone the insight it may take to > overcome an illness that a person has been indoctrinated to believe > will strip him/her of their very life. . .and even if it did what > growth would have taken place to prevent the same from happening > again? ROTW seems to be more like a "relax, you'll be fine". . . > .or, a pat on the back for confidence or "I wish you the best and > highest:" or in some cases it seems a prideful "incantation". Don't > get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the power of an intention > but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go along with it. . > .action." > > perhaps it can't supply the insight, and yes a bit of wisdom is often > helpful, but perhaps sometimes it's better to invoke a little reiki than to > impart your wisdom and impose it on another. if the insights > are to come from within the person seeking the healing there is no > need to taint that with your own ideas about how that person should > heal. There is no reason to hide your light under a bushel basket either. insights can be triggered. Seeds can be planted and nurtured. It is wise to be mindful of which seeds are watered and which ones are best ignored. Is there such a thing as a tainted insight? >the wisdom is not the action, the sending of the rieki is the > action. I would say that *thoughts are things*. . .and they both can fall under the realm of action. If would also ask what you think of specifically when you.send rieki? > ok, well forgive me for going on. i don't make my points as > succinctly as Gary or others do. and well, my written > communication issue in this forum goes beyond spelling errors. > forgive me for all of that. please. . . and do send some reiki if > you can maybe it will help ;) you are so very kind hearted and loving. . .it is truly rare. thank you so much for your insights and sharing of hard earned experience. Both you and Gary have given me lots to chew on.. . . .for the learning:) > Kevin > > > > > > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 115 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:02:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.12.222 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064660543 207.69.12.222 (Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:02:23 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:02:23 EDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8987 Kevin and Ginger, pardon me for butting in, but I am a habitual buttinsky.... :-) On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:41:38 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: >Yes, absolutely. . .well said but the support that was wanted by *you* was >ROTW. The modalities are different. . .way different The approaches are >different. . . way different. Why mix the two when it isn't necessary? >Betcha the doctor didn't recommend you:) It's not *always* the case. The cancer patient I mentioned in my post was recommended to supplement his therapy with Reiki by the hospital where he received his chemo. :-) >>does the healer desert the person who is a victim not >> only of disease but also of the "cure"? > >Oh my god. . . try not to mince words ok???!!!!:) >It is my soul felt conviction that as I've stated in the post to Gary *it is >not as victims we are unaware* >This statement is *incredibly* powerful and would take some explaining if >you're interested. So, to me, your question tells me that you do believe in Yes, go on please. I would be very interested in hearing the explanation. >victims.Tell me Ginger, how does one take responsibility for a ":random >act" >of fate like an illness? How can one put logic to heal into a "random act " >like cancer? How can one manage responsibility for recovery when recovery >would also be a "random act"? Is reiki the only stable thing in existence? Reiki is a manifestation of Source, of God, of The Universe, or whatever name you would like to put to it, as well as a reminder that we are each a facet of the Divine, and that separation and identification with form is illusion. Of course, a lot of people might disagree; that's just the way it looks from here. :-) But talk to us more about this randomness and logic. You've got my attention. >Is love random? >You see, your question (to me) holds the key to this whole conversation and >why compassion is so important to you. . . . . . for you, the Universe >operates randomly >where you too are a potential victim. So, in a Universe where nothing is random, compassion is not needed, and is just a coverup and hindrance to recognizing responsibility? Or am I misunderstanding your meaning? >>initially there seemed this potential >> to become dependent on the practitioner, until she told me i could >> learn this myself and should. > > This is a good point and one that could be utilized right here in this news >group. If you're saying we never recommend that anyone learn Reiki to help themselves, you need to check the archives. :-) Anyone can learn Reiki, and I've stated on several occasions (I can't remember if I posted it to this newsgroup, though) that IMHO it should be taught in Kindergarten or elementary school as a part of the normal curriculum. Of course, I don't mean the whole nine yards, but as much as a child that age can absorb, with the rest being dished out in the higher grades. I'm beginning to gather, however, that the ROTW's that you have seen may appear to be the extent of our concern. Usually if all one sees is a ROTW, it's because that's all that was asked for. When someone new to Reiki comes along, we try to answer all their questions, and recommend that they seek teachers, and so forth if it seems helpful. Usually people like to try it first to see if it will work for them, though, before committing themselves to lessons. Is that where you were headed with this item? > reiki is intent responsive in healing but people are victims when they >become ill? Back to the victim thing--please explain further? >There is no reason to hide your light under a bushel basket either. >insights can be triggered. Seeds can be planted and nurtured. It is wise to >be mindful of which seeds are watered and which ones are best ignored. Is >there such a thing as a tainted insight? That depends on how you define insight, doesn't it? If insights involve understanding of some Truth, are you saying that some Truths aren't good for us? (or maybe *no* Truths? =:o ) >>the wisdom is not the action, the sending of the rieki is the >> action. > >I would say that *thoughts are things*. . .and they both can fall under the >realm of action. If would also ask what you think of specifically when >you.send rieki? Identification with our thinking is the source of our suffering. As for what I think of when I send Reiki, I try not to. I try to just do Reiki, be Reiki, and to keep the ego out of it as much as possible. Which brings us back to the "Highest Good" thread... >you are so very kind hearted and loving. . .it is truly rare. thank you so >much for your insights and sharing of hard earned experience. Both you and >Gary have given me lots to chew on.. . . .for the learning:) The giving has not been onesided, Kevin. Thank *you* for giving us much to chew on, as well! Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:01:41 GMT Lines: 140 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!news3.optonline.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8975 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net... > Kevin and Ginger, pardon me for butting in, but I am a habitual > buttinsky.... :-) > > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 03:41:38 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > >Yes, absolutely. . .well said but the support that was wanted by *you* was > >ROTW. The modalities are different. . .way different The approaches are > >different. . . way different. Why mix the two when it isn't necessary? > >Betcha the doctor didn't recommend you:) > > It's not *always* the case. The cancer patient I mentioned in my post > was recommended to supplement his therapy with Reiki by the hospital > where he received his chemo. :-) Wow!! things are changing for the better:) i am so happy to hear that!!! Unfortunately, chemo was the primary therapy and reiki was the secondary.:) There are no "diseases" that are not susceptible to the the same force that created them to begin with. . . . .. thoughts, words and actions. thanks for the info!! Where do you live by the way? I live here in New Mexico. > >>does the healer desert the person who is a victim not > >> only of disease but also of the "cure"? > > > >Oh my god. . . try not to mince words ok???!!!!:) > >It is my soul felt conviction that as I've stated in the post to Gary *it is > >not as victims we are unaware* > >This statement is *incredibly* powerful and would take some explaining if > >you're interested. So, to me, your question tells me that you do believe in > > Yes, go on please. I would be very interested in hearing the > explanation. > > >victims.Tell me Ginger, how does one take responsibility for a ":random > >act" > >of fate like an illness? How can one put logic to heal into a "random act " > >like cancer? How can one manage responsibility for recovery when recovery > >would also be a "random act"? Is reiki the only stable thing in existence? > > Reiki is a manifestation of Source, of God, of The Universe, or > whatever name you would like to put to it, as well as a reminder that > we are each a facet of the Divine, and that separation and > identification with form is illusion. Of course, a lot of people might > disagree; that's just the way it looks from here. :-) > > But talk to us more about this randomness and logic. You've got my > attention. > > >Is love random? > >You see, your question (to me) holds the key to this whole conversation and > >why compassion is so important to you. . . . . . for you, the Universe > >operates randomly > >where you too are a potential victim. > > So, in a Universe where nothing is random, compassion is not needed, > and is just a coverup and hindrance to recognizing responsibility? Or > am I misunderstanding your meaning? > > >>initially there seemed this potential > >> to become dependent on the practitioner, until she told me i could > >> learn this myself and should. > > > > This is a good point and one that could be utilized right here in this news > >group. > > If you're saying we never recommend that anyone learn Reiki to help > themselves, you need to check the archives. :-) Anyone can learn > Reiki, and I've stated on several occasions (I can't remember if I > posted it to this newsgroup, though) that IMHO it should be taught in > Kindergarten or elementary school as a part of the normal curriculum. > Of course, I don't mean the whole nine yards, but as much as a child > that age can absorb, with the rest being dished out in the higher > grades. > > I'm beginning to gather, however, that the ROTW's that you have seen > may appear to be the extent of our concern. Usually if all one sees is > a ROTW, it's because that's all that was asked for. When someone new > to Reiki comes along, we try to answer all their questions, and > recommend that they seek teachers, and so forth if it seems helpful. > Usually people like to try it first to see if it will work for them, > though, before committing themselves to lessons. Is that where you > were headed with this item? > > > reiki is intent responsive in healing but people are victims when they > >become ill? > > Back to the victim thing--please explain further? > > >There is no reason to hide your light under a bushel basket either. > >insights can be triggered. Seeds can be planted and nurtured. It is wise to > >be mindful of which seeds are watered and which ones are best ignored. Is > >there such a thing as a tainted insight? > > That depends on how you define insight, doesn't it? If insights > involve understanding of some Truth, are you saying that some Truths > aren't good for us? (or maybe *no* Truths? =:o ) > > >>the wisdom is not the action, the sending of the rieki is the > >> action. > > > >I would say that *thoughts are things*. . .and they both can fall under the > >realm of action. If would also ask what you think of specifically when > >you.send rieki? > > Identification with our thinking is the source of our suffering. > > As for what I think of when I send Reiki, I try not to. I try to just > do Reiki, be Reiki, and to keep the ego out of it as much as possible. > Which brings us back to the "Highest Good" thread... > > >you are so very kind hearted and loving. . .it is truly rare. thank you so > >much for your insights and sharing of hard earned experience. Both you and > >Gary have given me lots to chew on.. . . .for the learning:) > > The giving has not been onesided, Kevin. Thank *you* for giving us > much to chew on, as well! > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:46:59 GMT Lines: 452 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!news-xfer.cox.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8974 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:11:14 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > > >"Nadie Niemand" wrote in message > >news:3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net... > >> Hi Kevin, > > > >Thanks Gary. . . you are delightfully patient! > > Apparently you missed some of my posts the last few times some > crossposting trolls blew through here, and then there's the time I > ranted at one of the "Old Ones" of this newsgroup...but thanks, > anyways. You're no slouch yourself. :-) > > > > >>The idea around the reason that they are sick in the > >> first place is because there is a blockage in their ability to absorb > >> or utilize ki. > > > >Ok. . .My father was a reiki practitioner and talked much about this > >"blockage" you refer to. Although I saw him work over the years on his own > >physical problems (and given I couldn't see inside him to understand the > >changes if any he was going through) it appeared to me that he was > >attempting to "envoke" somthing in his life that he didn't understand. And > >although he claimed benifits I never saw any. I do not believe that one can > >truly heal without being able to detect a change in nature. Some people want > >to heal without having to change a thing in their life, whether the change > >is due to a specific treatment or the change *is* the treatment. > > I understand what you mean if you are speaking of people looking for a > "magic bullet" to take away their pain without having to reform what > they are doing to cause it. > > As for the benefits that were claimed by your father, and I hope I'm > not picking open any scabs here, No scabs here:) >might it be that they related to > feelings of tranquility and love and the feeling that all is as it > should be, no matter how bad things may look on the outside? No. >Those > sorts of feelings can be some of the benefits of practicing Reiki. You > said your father practiced Reiki for many years, so you must be > familiar with the 5 precepts? I'm not gary. . . > Reiki is as much a way of living as it > is anything else. Or at least that's what I've been taught and have > experienced. Others may have other views and experiences. > > >>Giving them Reiki removes the blockage and allows the > >> healing process to start moving things back to normal. > > > >Gary with all respect to you and at the same time with due respect to *my > >own* healing process, this sounds like such a nice pat cliche. I am learning > > Thank you for your tact. Yes, it sounds like a pat cliche, even to me. > I was very skeptical of Reiki before I experienced it, and the usual > explanations of how it works doesn't sound kosher to the Western, > "scientific" ear. lol. .my ears are anti-scientific:) There are principals here i guess that i take issue with. > >what it takes to heal a thing and it isn't having someone send you something > >intangible that miraculesly removes "blockages" that allow the healing > >process. If a person undertook this for him/her self with the intention of > >healing that is a whole other ball game but to have someone send you > >something that aids in removing blocks leaving the intended recipient free > >to carry on. . .well. . . > >Love doesn't move Gary. > > Hmmm, with all due respect, when I send or receive Reiki, it doesn't > feel intangible to me. Something is certainly happening. I must admit > I cannot state with absolute certainty the exact method of its > operation, but something is happening. Oh i agree something is happening to you. if you tell me it is then it is, but, you don't "give" it to someone else. what is happening is happening to you. What happens to another is their responsibility. If it were that i could 'give' someone else their healing.. . .. there would be no more illness in the world:)(as selfish as i am) >Or perhaps I (and a lot of > other Reiki practitioners, as well as qigong healers, and others) are > all just deluding ourselves no, never meant to imply that. i simply don't believe we can make anyone else . .anything- including well. That would totally negate our right to also perpetuate and enjoy our own suffering:) >with similar hallucinations? That could > very well be the case, but at the present time, I honestly don't think > so. > > As for "miraculously" removing a blockage leaving someone free to > carry on, I'm wondering if you are thinking about questions of whether > or not one is just allowing someone to continue to abuse themselves, > assuming their pain was self-inflicted. i don't understand what you mean. .. .can you rephrase that for me please? >But is it always > self-inflicted? Who else? If someone has contracted a virus, say, from having > been close to someone else who was sick, would it be a bad thing to > help them get over it faster if you could? we are all expossed to virus's . .. some "catch" it, while others do not. i don't believe in "bad" and I don't believe i could do anything with the exception of planting a seed.. . .the nurturing of that seed is up to them, not me. It is similar to someone saying," you *made* me angry"!" well, nobody *makes* any one angry. The choice to be angry is made not by someone else, no? >Or would it just be > compassion? compassion doesn't change the fact that i cannot negate someone else's responsibility to heal. If i choose to feel compassion it doesn't have an effect one way or the other on the "act" of healing, however, it is usually the case that an act of compassion is called for when treating oneself. >And if their pain was self-inflicted, what if "removing > the blockage" enabled them to see what they were doing to themselves > and take positive action? but gary if the pain is self inflicted, and it always is, how will one "see" the *reason* for the "blockage" if someone *could* take it away for them???? Even when a person knows what causes the illness correcting this can be a job. >Sometimes the best way to help someone is to > force them to go it alone, but other times a helping hand is needed. Yes, i agree that sometimes a helping hand is needed but that is not to say that you could (even if you wanted to) remove the reasons this person is holding this pattern to begin with. > BTW, there was a time when I would have been asking the same questions > you are asking now, but my experience so far of Reiki has engendered > trust in its ability to bring to light the issues that need attention. There was a time prior to my healing path that i thought as you do. i didn't realize the extent of my responsibility for my own body's health and how closely assosiated the effects of our actions (thoughts words and otherwise) are to the body's well being. I often posed the same questions you are now and it became painfully clear to me and in short order how absolutely no body else on the planet can interrupt my own cycles but me. *There is no escape* from this truth. At the beginning, i was so afraid of the power of a thought because i couldn't manage them. It takes much practice and error (ouch). But in time and repeatedly over and over and over agian correct thought and intention will set you on another path. . . . a path of your own choosing . . .rather than casting your fate to the wind. > > >>Of course, > >> sometimes we're past the point of no return, and in those cases Reiki > >> can help us with making our transition with less pain and suffering. > > > >Your belief is the most beautiful thing about your post. > > I admit I have no personal experience to back this up. My belief is > based on what other, more experienced practitioners have posted in > this newsgroup about their experiences in the hospice setting. These > are people that I know well enough that I see no reason to doubt them. > I do not, however, expect you to believe so just on 3rd hand say-so. Try it yourself gary. . .. there is but one HUGE (not yelling) hurdle to overcome first.. . . > >> Usually the recepient requests Reiki for themselves. There have been > >> quite a few debates about the "rightness" or efficacy of sending Reiki > >> to someone who has not requested it. > > > > Doubt it would hurt but doubt it would help. There is a psychology about > >wanting to give aid to people that aren't asking but for the most part it > >seems to me that this action effects the "sender" more profoundly than > >anything else. > > I see pretty much eye to eye with you on that point, but again, as one > of the more junior practitioners here, I will leave it in the hands of > the more experienced for now. > > > Unconsciosness and not wanting it or sheer disbelief are two different > >things, maybe we just don't know what's going on inside. > > Not wanting it and sheer disbelief are two different things, as well. > Disbelief does not seem to hinder the efficacy of Reiki, whereas not > wanting it does seem to be enough to stop it. In any case, when do we > ever know what's going on inside someone else? yes, excactly >We're hard pressed even > to know what's going on inside our ownselves! :-) and herein contains the problem!! > > > >> Well, those of us who practice Reiki feel there is a little more to it > >> than "relax, you'll be fine". You seem to be discounting any > >> physical/mental/emotional effect from the act of giving Reiki. > > > > It is just that many of the posts I have seen here Gary are people that > >are in crises and need perhaps tools of their own to work with. I do not > >discount any effect from the act of giving Reiki. I simply believe in most > >cases it would be a "bandaid" on a severed artery. > > Hypothetical questions about efficacy aside, if all you could offer > was a bandaid and some soothing words, would you refuse to give them, > even though the person has come to you as a last resort after all else > has failed him? But It is not all I can offer them gary. . . . i can plant a seed, a seed that could if nurtured, change the entire course of ones life. I cannot *make* a person believe in *their* power but it is not foolish to suggest it. So, in reguard to your question, which to me appears to be more concerned with compassion as the intention than anything else, i would be carefull in my compassion not to add fuel to a victim role but rather the compassion one has for self when newly armed with a powerfull tool. . .. like a child with a shotgun, it could feed itself or do major harm. Or the compassion one has for someone who willingly harms themself but you are powerless to "give" them anything they are not ready to accept. But once ones feet are established even briefly on that path there is no tuning back. > > This is a wonderful thing and I am glad there are people like you aiding > >others. I also believe she does know when it is sent because she does feel > >better. And ea. time you send it she feels better, but wouldln't it be > >fantastic if she could heal this "cronic" problem herself and for good by > >interupting the pattern that holds her there to begin with? You cannot do > >that for her. These are changes she must realize and make. Her belief in > >your ability to "send" Reiki must be powerful as well as her belief that you > >have her highest good in mind. > > You are correct that it would be better if she could heal this chronic > problem herself. I have known this woman for many years before I > started to learn Reiki. She used to be a much stronger individual, > both physically and character-wise. I attempted to empower her to heal > herself by first asking to teach her taiji, then when she said she > couldn't do that, by teaching her Reiki. However, her need for human > companionship and warmth seem to overwhelm her desire to get well. She > is in a bad relationship, which I'm sure contributes heavily to the > stress in her life, which in turn contributes to the severity of her > physical problems. Yes for sure. .. >She "forgets" how to do her self-Reiki and prefers > to have me give it to her. Trust me, I have no desire to be her > "dealer" when she needs a "fix", but all I have to offer her is my > friendship and compassion. And i agree that those things are a helpfull and it seems you have a good handle on her intentions. >Until she can motivate herself to free > herself of her situation, I'm afraid she will never improve her > health. OTOH, she knows this herself, so it's just a matter of when > she decides that enough is enough. Amen!! >Am I holding her back? I've thought > long and hard about it, and I honestly don't think so. > >This, I know, is very important. But more importantly, is to know that *you* > >are empowered and do effect your own healing either positively or neg. by > >your own thought, words and actions. Others become dependent on you and what > >they belief you can do for them. The most important role in empowering > >oneself is to know that *we are not as victims unaware* To have someone aid > >someone repeatedly over again is not good for the client or the > >practicioner. I am not accusing you of this but it is worth mentioning. > > It's good to have it brought up and kept in mind. Thanks for > mentioning it. > > > > >> So there's more to it than just wishing someone well or wishing for > >> one's own healing (although one's own healing is certainly part of > >> every session). > > > > Can you please tell me how this is so? > > Which part? The part about more to it than wishing someone well, or > the part about self-healing being part of every session? > I am enterested to know how you think self healing is a part of every session. > >> >power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go > >> >along with it. . .action. Like asking a martian for help to heal. .and > >the > >> >martian replies, " oiemndon". .. what the hell do you do with that? I > >> > > > >> OOTW? > > > > Sorry, don't understand the abbreviation. . . > > Oiemndon On The Way :-) thanks:) > >>OTOH, no martians have come down and attuned and trained me in > >> that modality, so I better not fake it. > > > > LOL > > > > > So for whatever reason they > >> come, it's probably better for them in this context to take away a > >> balanced approach, conventional therapies supported by spiritual > >> healing. > > > > > > I guess the operative words are " in this context". For example: Chemo- > >theropy is poison. The hope is that it kills the enemy prior to killing you. > >What about this barbaric method is worth your support as a healer or > >contains a lick of common sense? > > Alas, since I'm not a medical doctor, my opinion doesn't count for > jack from a medical or legal perspective. Personally, I try to avoid > taking any sort of these "modern medicines". When my blood pressure > and cholesterol were sky high, my doctor wanted to prescribe expensive > medication for me and expected me to take it for the rest of my life. > I ignored him, started working on changing my diet and exercise habits > and am making improvements. Blood pressure is normal and cholesterol > is changing in the right direction (although I understand that > cholesterol is not the miracle risk predictor they once thought). Very cool! >But > if I were to tell someone that they should not be taking cholesterol > and blood pressure medication, I could be slapped with a lawsuit for > practicing medicine without a license that I would lose and regret > forever after. Sorry i didn't clearify... i in no way meant for you or anyone to tell someone to stop a treatment but rather give them another tool to work with (ie. reiki) without participating in giving more credence to the AMA. They may come to that themselves in time. What's the legal climate like where you live? smothering. > >> >this newsgroup. I've gone on way too long already and probably said way > >too > >> >much. Perhaps I don't understand the nature of this group. Is it really > >just > >> >for you people that are already in reiki. . .or for the folks that need > >> >assistance, or for newbies, or a combination? I haven't even read the > >FAQ. > >> > >> It's for anyone with an interest in Reiki, > > > > or healing? > > Or healing. :-) > > > >> >if there is one. I do see a lot of wisdom, respect and love amongst the > >> >people that post here as well as lot of empathy and compassion but rarely > >is > >> >it given to the people that post here wanting help. > >> > >> Really? Have you searched the archives and done any kind of counting > >> or statistics to back that up? > > > > Sorry, I was reffering to the sharing of wisdom to aid in healing. The rest > >is obviously shared. > > What sort of wisdom in particular? I've seen advice and shared > personal experiences a plenty for as long as I've been subscribed to > this newsgroup. > just the encouragment of self empowerment vs. taking your power to someone else to fix you. > > >Tanhks Grya! It has been a plaseur:) > > And a pleasure for me as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and > best wishes for your healing process. And since you didn't ask for > Reiki, I haven't sent it. :-) > lol. .thanks, can I take a rain check? > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 17 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:51:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.1.197 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064677864 207.69.1.197 (Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:51:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:51:04 EDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8989 On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:01:41 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: > Where do you live by the way? >I live here in New Mexico. North Carolina. I've been to Albuquerque (for an ARS convention) and Santa Fe and I found them to be beautiful places. Aren't there lots of progressive alternative care facilities in NM? And while it is encouraging that a hospital recommended Reiki to its chemo patients, don't hold your breath--it's just one hospital, and policies change at least as often as administrators. Time will tell if the policy sticks and the idea spreads. Garry ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 175 Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:49:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.1.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064684962 207.69.1.149 (Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:49:22 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:49:22 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8992 On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:46:59 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: >>Those >> sorts of feelings can be some of the benefits of practicing Reiki. You >> said your father practiced Reiki for many years, so you must be >> familiar with the 5 precepts? > >I'm not gary. . . There are different translations and versions floating around, and not being a Japanese speaker, fluent or otherwise, I'm not in a position to judge, but I guess the bottom line is you get as much out of them as you put into them, regardless of which version you prefer. I currently like: The secret method of inviting happiness, The wonderful medicine for all diseases, Just for today, Let go of anger Let go of worry Be grateful Work mindfully Be kind to others Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho* and repeat these words out loud and in your heart. For the improvement of body and soul, Usui Reiki Ryoho. The founder, Mikao Usui *gassho--kneeling and sitting Japanese style with hands folded in front of heart. Of course, the important thing here is the spiritual attitude, not the exact method of sitting. >Oh i agree something is happening to you. if you tell me it is then it is, >but, you don't "give" it to someone else. what is happening is happening to >you. What happens to another is their responsibility. If it were that i >could 'give' someone else their healing.. . .. there would be no more >illness in the world:)(as selfish as i am) Hmmm, I think I'm getting a glimmer of the hair we're splitting here... I agree that the only person that can heal you is yourself, nobody can heal you for you. I guess where we differ is to the degree that someone can give another a helping hand? >no, never meant to imply that. i simply don't believe we can make anyone >else . .anything- including well. >That would totally negate our right to also perpetuate and enjoy our own >suffering:) LOL You've said a mouthful! Wouldn't it be nice if we all woke up one fine morning and just decided to stop creating any more pain for ourselves? :-) >>But is it always >> self-inflicted? > > Who else? I see. So if a couple is having a seriously violent domestic squabble, and one throws a soup can at the other and it misses, and goes flying through the open window and beans a passer-by three stories below on the sidewalk, the blame for the bleeding gash, the concussion, and the pain falls squarely on the poor schnook on the sidewalk? Was there any way he could have known and avoided this situation? Was his injury self-inflicted? Or do you refer to his reaction after he wakes up in the hospital, saying, "Oh, woe is me, God must really hate me! What did I do to deserve this? I hurt so bad, poor, pitiful me!" ? In my estimation, he is not responsible for the soup can incident, but he is responsible for the additional suffering he creates for himself after the damage is done. >not me. It is similar to someone saying," you *made* me angry"!" well, >nobody *makes* any one angry. The choice to be angry is made not by someone >else, no? Agreed. > compassion doesn't change the fact that i cannot negate someone else's >responsibility to heal. If i choose to feel compassion it doesn't have an >effect one way or the other on the "act" of healing, however, it is usually >the case that an act of compassion is called for when treating oneself. ok... > but gary if the pain is self inflicted, and it always is, how will one >"see" the *reason* for the "blockage" if someone *could* take it away for >them???? Even when a person knows what causes the illness correcting this >can be a job. We are speaking in vague generalities and cliches, now, so I'm not sure how we can prove anything one way or the other, much less make it practical. But you're welcome to have a go at it. Maybe if you were to give a concrete example, it would help this tortoise-brain understand? > Yes, i agree that sometimes a helping hand is needed but that is not to say >that you could (even if you wanted to) remove the reasons this person is >holding this pattern to begin with. I can't. But I believe that Reiki can, because it doesn't come from *me*. It comes from Source, of which we are all a part. > There was a time prior to my healing path that i thought as you do. i >didn't realize the extent of my responsibility for my own body's health and >how closely assosiated the effects of our actions (thoughts words and >otherwise) are to the body's well being. I often posed the same questions >you are now and it became painfully clear to me and in short order how >absolutely no body else on the planet can interrupt my own cycles but me. >*There is no escape* from this truth. At the beginning, i was so afraid of >the power of a thought because i couldn't manage them. It takes much >practice and error (ouch). But in time and repeatedly over and over and over >agian correct thought and intention will set you on another path. . . . a >path of your own choosing . . .rather than casting your fate to the wind. I'm struggling here--pardon me while I attempt to pigeon-hole (usually not a good idea, but I'm working on first approximations). Are you advocating something along the lines of Louise Hay? My own view is that identifying with our thinking minds is the source of our suffering. Once you identify with your thinking, then you start judging and things start going downhill from there. Instead of letting our minds use us, we should use our minds like a tool, and put them down when they are not needed. It's mistakenly believing that we are the katzenjammer that's going on in our heads that is our big error. Just breathe. Just be. Let go of the worry and the anger. >>We're hard pressed even >> to know what's going on inside our ownselves! :-) > >and herein contains the problem!! Get out of the head, turn off the light, close the door. Take a deep breath of fresh air. Ahhh! :-) >I am enterested to know how you think self healing is a part of every >session. It started out that I was simply told this by my Reiki teachers. But after a time, I came to feel it for myself. Now, each time I perform Reiki, it strengthens my awareness of the connectedness of all Life, and makes it a little easier to let go of all the worry and anger and involvement with thinking too much. I feel at peace and am present and focused in the here and now. I can live the precepts, at least for these few moments of the session. And those moments seem to come more and more frequently with practice, even when I'm not in the middle of a Reiki session. Oh, and I get physical benefits, too. Aches and pains and scrapes and bites and burns all seem to fade quickly from awareness during a Reiki session, and in short order, from the body as well. No miracles, now, it does take a day or two for the wounds to finish healing. :-) I'm sure others feel differently about the way they practice Reiki, but there must be something in common, because others have stated they feel self-healing taking place when they practice, too. This is whether we are working on someone else, or working on ourselves. OTOH, if all one cares about is the energy work and skips the philosophy, I don't know that they get as much out of it. It would be nice if some other practitioners were to post a response now to let us know their experiences. It would be sad if I were (mis-)speaking for everyone. >lol. .thanks, can I take a rain check? Of course! Any time. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <268a29d2047a66b3861a0d2f8c53f474@news.teranews.com> Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:58:15 GMT Lines: 262 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9022 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:46:59 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > >>Those > >> sorts of feelings can be some of the benefits of practicing Reiki. You > >> said your father practiced Reiki for many years, so you must be > >> familiar with the 5 precepts? > > > >I'm not gary. . . > > There are different translations and versions floating around, and not > being a Japanese speaker, fluent or otherwise, I'm not in a position > to judge, but I guess the bottom line is you get as much out of them > as you put into them, regardless of which version you prefer. I > currently like: > > The secret method of inviting happiness, > The wonderful medicine for all diseases, > > Just for today, > > Let go of anger > Let go of worry > Be grateful > Work mindfully > Be kind to others > These are wonderfull and i try to live by four of the five anyway:) > Mornings and evenings, sit in gassho* and repeat these words out loud > and in your heart. > > For the improvement of body and soul, Usui Reiki Ryoho. > > The founder, Mikao Usui > > *gassho--kneeling and sitting Japanese style with hands folded in > front of heart. Of course, the important thing here is the spiritual > attitude, not the exact method of sitting. > > >Oh i agree something is happening to you. if you tell me it is then it is, > >but, you don't "give" it to someone else. what is happening is happening to > >you. What happens to another is their responsibility. If it were that i > >could 'give' someone else their healing.. . .. there would be no more > >illness in the world:)(as selfish as i am) > > Hmmm, I think I'm getting a glimmer of the hair we're splitting > here... I agree that the only person that can heal you is yourself, > nobody can heal you for you. I guess where we differ is to the degree > that someone can give another a helping hand? Maybe so . . .but the distiction for me anyway seems worth drawing a line in the sand . .. .at least for the sake of arguement. Other than that, if we were to choose up side to sniff arm pits i'd want you on my team!:) > >no, never meant to imply that. i simply don't believe we can make anyone > >else . .anything- including well. > >That would totally negate our right to also perpetuate and enjoy our own > >suffering:) > > LOL You've said a mouthful! Wouldn't it be nice if we all woke up one > fine morning and just decided to stop creating any more pain for > ourselves? :-) > i want to be there!!! > >>But is it always > >> self-inflicted? > > > > Who else? > > I see. So if a couple is having a seriously violent domestic squabble, > and one throws a soup can at the other and it misses, and goes flying > through the open window and beans a passer-by three stories below on > the sidewalk, the blame for the bleeding gash, the concussion, and the > pain falls squarely on the poor schnook on the sidewalk? Was there any > way he could have known and avoided this situation? Was his injury > self-inflicted? lol . .i've known people with that kind of constant "luck". Sure would seem to me he drew it to himself somehow but for the sake of discussion can we limit it to something a little more understandable. . like the lady you spoke of that you gave reiki to? > Or do you refer to his reaction after he wakes up in the hospital, > saying, "Oh, woe is me, God must really hate me! What did I do to > deserve this? I hurt so bad, poor, pitiful me!" ? In my estimation, he > is not responsible for the soup can incident, but he is responsible > for the additional suffering he creates for himself after the damage > is done. yes, that for sure but can't say about the soup can gary. i can only extrapolate from my own experiances in healing and believe it must also be true for others as well. And as we have discussed before. . .who knows what thoughts are active in his head to cause him to have such unfortunate timing. > >not me. It is similar to someone saying," you *made* me angry"!" well, > >nobody *makes* any one angry. The choice to be angry is made not by someone > >else, no? > > Agreed. > > > compassion doesn't change the fact that i cannot negate someone else's > >responsibility to heal. If i choose to feel compassion it doesn't have an > >effect one way or the other on the "act" of healing, however, it is usually > >the case that an act of compassion is called for when treating oneself. > > ok... > > > but gary if the pain is self inflicted, and it always is, how will one > >"see" the *reason* for the "blockage" if someone *could* take it away for > >them???? Even when a person knows what causes the illness correcting this > >can be a job. > lol . .sorry i'm so vague. Let me see. .. i'll start with a couple of questions : you spoke of blockages, no? there are reasons for them, no? Who takes responsibility for the blockages you spoke of? who or what caused them? Is reiki concerned about that? ok, now, assuming there are reasons for blockages and those reasons fall under the responsibility of the ill person . . .if you or a reiki practicioner removed those blockages, what would become of the *reasons* for them to begin with?? If the reasons for the blockages were not dealt with, would not the blockages return? ok. . .i've done my best:) > We are speaking in vague generalities and cliches, now, so I'm not > sure how we can prove anything one way or the other, much less make it > practical. But you're welcome to have a go at it. Maybe if you were to > give a concrete example, it would help this tortoise-brain understand? > > > Yes, i agree that sometimes a helping hand is needed but that is not to say > >that you could (even if you wanted to) remove the reasons this person is > >holding this pattern to begin with. > > I can't. But I believe that Reiki can, because it doesn't come from > *me*. It comes from Source, of which we are all a part. > there is that damn magic bullet again:) >There was a time prior to my healing path that i thought as you do. i > >didn't realize the extent of my responsibility for my own body's health and > >how closely assosiated the effects of our actions (thoughts words and > >otherwise) are to the body's well being. I often posed the same questions > >you are now and it became painfully clear to me and in short order how > >absolutely no body else on the planet can interrupt my own cycles but me. > >*There is no escape* from this truth. At the beginning, i was so afraid of > >the power of a thought because i couldn't manage them. It takes much > >practice and error (ouch). But in time and repeatedly over and over and over > >agian correct thought and intention will set you on another path. . . . a > >path of your own choosing . . .rather than casting your fate to the wind. > > I'm struggling here--pardon me while I attempt to pigeon-hole (usually > not a good idea, but I'm working on first approximations). Are you > advocating something along the lines of Louise Hay? > In part, yes. > My own view is that identifying with our thinking minds is the source > of our suffering. Once you identify with your thinking, then you start > judging and things start going downhill from there. That sounds exactly like the scoundral that could cause an illness:) > Instead of letting > our minds use us, we should use our minds like a tool, yes, yes, yes! >and put them > down when they are not needed. It's mistakenly believing that we are > the katzenjammer that's going on in our heads that is our big error. > Just breathe. Just be. Let go of the worry and the anger. So true . . .let go of the worry and anger but reprogram them to work for you instead of against you. Thinking and thoughts happen. but, lets be more selective. > >>We're hard pressed even > >> to know what's going on inside our ownselves! :-) > > > >and herein contains the problem!! > > Get out of the head, turn off the light, close the door. Take a deep > breath of fresh air. Ahhh! :-) > > >I am enterested to know how you think self healing is a part of every > >session. > > It started out that I was simply told this by my Reiki teachers. But > after a time, I came to feel it for myself. Now, each time I perform > Reiki, it strengthens my awareness of the connectedness of all Life, > and makes it a little easier to let go of all the worry and anger and > involvement with thinking too much. i guess this is where we differ. . . .thinking is not bad but bad thinking about ourselves is. thought does not have to be harmfull and one doesn't have to turn off the thought to enjoy some peace:) we don't have to hide from thought. >I feel at peace and am present and > focused in the here and now. I can live the precepts, at least for > these few moments of the session. And those moments seem to come more > and more frequently with practice, even when I'm not in the middle of > a Reiki session. > > Oh, and I get physical benefits, too. Aches and pains and scrapes and > bites and burns all seem to fade quickly from awareness during a Reiki > session, and in short order, from the body as well. No miracles, now, > it does take a day or two for the wounds to finish healing. :-) i can see where you are going. . .and congratulations on finding a method that works for you. i am saddled with my own method because it is logical. i never quite understood what logic had to do with healing or spirituality until last year. Not Logic. . .but logic, my logic. . .the logic that causes my body illness. Everyones logic is different. but none the less just as potent. It isn't a bad thing for things to make sense. . . for healing to make sense. Sounds like you have a handle on yours gary:) good for you! > I'm sure others feel differently about the way they practice Reiki, > but there must be something in common, because others have stated they > feel self-healing taking place when they practice, too. This is > whether we are working on someone else, or working on ourselves. OTOH, > if all one cares about is the energy work and skips the philosophy, I > don't know that they get as much out of it. It would be nice if some > other practitioners were to post a response now to let us know their > experiences. It would be sad if I were (mis-)speaking for everyone. > > >lol. .thanks, can I take a rain check? > > Of course! Any time. :-) > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:08:07 GMT Lines: 33 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9023 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:01:41 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > > Where do you live by the way? > >I live here in New Mexico. > > North Carolina. I've been to Albuquerque (for an ARS convention) and > Santa Fe and I found them to be beautiful places. Aren't there lots of > progressive alternative care facilities in NM? > Yes there are. . .many different diciplines. The AMA still rules here. . .but there at least are other things happening now. Is there a large reiki community here in New Mexico? > And while it is encouraging that a hospital recommended Reiki to its > chemo patients, don't hold your breath--it's just one hospital, and > policies change at least as often as administrators. Time will tell if > the policy sticks and the idea spreads. > Well, even to have the one is a beginning. Things (thoughts) are beginning to change and evolve a bit, no? Holistic health practitioners are bountiful here. Many are working under a licenced Dr. so they can 'get away' with more healing than if they weren't. Does insurance pay for a reiki treatment yet? > Garry > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> <268a29d2047a66b3861a0d2f8c53f474@news.teranews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 67 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:48:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.14.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064713698 207.69.14.109 (Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:48:18 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:48:18 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9014 On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:58:15 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: > Maybe so . . .but the distiction for me anyway seems worth drawing a line >in the sand . .. .at least for the sake of arguement. Other than that, if we >were to choose up side to sniff arm pits i'd want you on my team!:) Um, thanks...I think. This could get kinky! =:o >lol . .sorry i'm so vague. Let me see. .. i'll start with a couple of >questions : >you spoke of blockages, no? there are reasons for them, no? Who takes >responsibility for the blockages you spoke of? who or what caused them? Is >reiki concerned about that? ok, now, assuming there are reasons for >blockages and those reasons fall under the responsibility of the ill person >. . .if you or a reiki practicioner removed those blockages, what would >become of the *reasons* for them to begin with?? If the reasons for the >blockages were not dealt with, would not the blockages return? >ok. . .i've done my best:) In my view, blockages, like anything else, are just a part of what is, at this moment, so what matters is what you do about it at this moment. If you get involved with wringing your hands about the past and worrying about the future, you're already lost. All you've got is now, so either change it or accept it, but don't worry about it. >> I can't. But I believe that Reiki can, because it doesn't come from >> *me*. It comes from Source, of which we are all a part. > > there is that damn magic bullet again:) If it's just a part of what is, what's so magical about it? :-) > So true . . .let go of the worry and anger but reprogram them to work for >you instead of against you. Thinking and thoughts happen. but, lets be more >selective. If "reprogramming" works for you, more power to you. :-) >i guess this is where we differ. . . .thinking is not bad but bad thinking >about ourselves is. thought does not have to be harmfull and one doesn't >have to turn off the thought to enjoy some peace:) we don't have to hide >from thought. No, you are absolutely right. Thought can be very useful. Just don't mistake yourself for the thinker, and you should be okay. > i can see where you are going. . .and congratulations on finding a >method that works for you. i am saddled with my own method because it is Ride 'em cowboy! But if you ever get saddle sore, maybe you would consider taking some time off to learn some Reiki. >logical. i never quite understood what logic had to do with healing or >spirituality until last year. Not Logic. . .but logic, my logic. . .the >logic that causes my body illness. Everyones logic is different. but none >the less just as potent. It isn't a bad thing for things to make sense. . . >for healing to make sense. Sounds like you have a handle on yours gary:) >good for you! As long as what you do works for you, great! Nothing succeeds like success. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 19 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:53:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.14.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064714014 207.69.14.109 (Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:53:34 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:53:34 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9017 On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:08:07 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: > Well, even to have the one is a beginning. Things (thoughts) are >beginning to change and evolve a bit, no? Holistic health practitioners are >bountiful here. Many are working under a licenced Dr. so they can 'get away' >with more healing than if they weren't. Does insurance pay for a reiki >treatment yet? Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) Love and Light, Garry ###### From: stuv@cix.co.uk (Stuart Vernon) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:41 +0100 (BST) Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net> Reply-To: stuv@cix.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: public2-bolt3-3-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.com (80.2.124.91) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1064752898 9026730 80.2.124.91 (16 [41161]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!public2-bolt3-3-cust91.manc.broadband.ntl.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9020 (Nadie Niemand) wrote: > Nothing succeeds like success. :-) Nothing succeeds like a toothless budgie. Stuart ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:30:26 GMT Lines: 38 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> <268a29d2047a66b3861a0d2f8c53f474@news.teranews.com> <3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!news3.optonline.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9004 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 23:58:15 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > In my view, blockages, like anything else, are just a part of what is, > at this moment, so what matters is what you do about it at this > moment. So true. . . and a huge mouthfull! And each monent healing is reinforced . . so it is. Gary, do you consider yourself a "healer"? If so, what role do you view a "healer" taking in the world? > >> I can't. But I believe that Reiki can, because it doesn't come from > >> *me*. It comes from Source, of which we are all a part. > > > > there is that damn magic bullet again:) > > If it's just a part of what is, what's so magical about it? :-) > I don't view the spirit realm much different than this reality. It takes time to resolve something it took time to create. ok, When someone here sends reiki to someone that requests it, from what i have observed, *that* seems to be the "cure". Nobody says come back in an hour and ea. hour of the day for three months to receive more doses, the one treatment seems to be thought to take care of it. Am i way off base here? That is the "magic bullet" i am speaking of. If the treatment were often and consistent i would be able to buy the effectiveness of them more easily. i know how intense my intention is to heal myself ( a moment by moment thing) and at the beginning five years ago, it took much more concentrated effort to get the ball rolling than it does now to keep it rolling. i am ever vigilant over the thoughts that are counter to healing. ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f770730.1729559@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> <268a29d2047a66b3861a0d2f8c53f474@news.teranews.com> <3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 48 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:25:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.1.244 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064766316 207.69.1.244 (Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:25:16 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:25:16 EDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9015 On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:30:26 GMT, "arthealer" wrote: > And each monent healing is reinforced . . so it is. >Gary, do you consider yourself a "healer"? That depends. If you define a "healer" as someone who was sick and got better, then yes. :-) >If so, what role do you view a "healer" taking in the world? The same role as everyone else, except that if one heals oneself, one makes a positive contribution to the world. > I don't view the spirit realm much different than this reality. It takes >time to resolve something it took time to create. > ok, When someone here sends reiki to someone that requests it, from what i >have observed, *that* seems to be the "cure". Nobody says come back in an >hour and ea. hour of the day for three months to receive more doses, the one >treatment seems to be thought to take care of it. Am i way off base here? Yes, Kevin, the above paragraph is off base. No one believes that one ROTW is *necessarily* a cure for anything. The intent behind a single ROTW, like a single in person session, is to give you a helping hand on the road to wellness. It is not the end of the road. You can think of it as helping to support someone to get through a crisis, or to give them a helping hand on their healing journey, or even to get them started on their healing journey. Also, usually when someone is having a severe crisis and we post ROTW, we may add them to our nightly/weekly/whatever lists and continue sending Reiki at regular intervals. Many times when someone requests, we send Reiki without bothering to post ROTW or any other sort of reply to the post. If someone posts a request for Reiki, they will get it, whether they see a reply to their post or not. BTW, sometimes one ROTW is all you need to get you going. It varies with each person and each situation, of course. So, sorry you got the impression that one quick ROTW is all you get and thinking that that's supposed to fix everything. Hope that explains our practice a little more clearly. I guess you never really talked with your Dad about the hows and whats and whens and whys of Reiki practice? Love and Light, Garry ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <5d0c64bed99383f000f7353fa5c6c3c2@news.teranews.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:41:28 GMT Lines: 66 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> <268a29d2047a66b3861a0d2f8c53f474@news.teranews.com> <3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f770730.1729559@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9002 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f770730.1729559@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:30:26 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > > And each monent healing is reinforced . . so it is. > >Gary, do you consider yourself a "healer"? > > That depends. If you define a "healer" as someone who was sick and got > better, then yes. :-) > of course i do . . .probably a prerequisite for anything else:) > >If so, what role do you view a "healer" taking in the world? > > The same role as everyone else, except that if one heals oneself, one > makes a positive contribution to the world. > > > I don't view the spirit realm much different than this reality. It takes > >time to resolve something it took time to create. > > ok, When someone here sends reiki to someone that requests it, from what i > >have observed, *that* seems to be the "cure". Nobody says come back in an > >hour and ea. hour of the day for three months to receive more doses, the one > >treatment seems to be thought to take care of it. Am i way off base here? > > Yes, Kevin, the above paragraph is off base. No one believes that one > ROTW is *necessarily* a cure for anything. The intent behind a single > ROTW, like a single in person session, is to give you a helping hand > on the road to wellness. It is not the end of the road. You can think > of it as helping to support someone to get through a crisis, or to > give them a helping hand on their healing journey, or even to get them > started on their healing journey. > > Also, usually when someone is having a severe crisis and we post ROTW, > we may add them to our nightly/weekly/whatever lists and continue > sending Reiki at regular intervals. very good! we send Reiki without bothering to post ROTW or any other sort of > reply to the post. If someone posts a request for Reiki, they will get > it, whether they see a reply to their post or not. BTW, sometimes one > ROTW is all you need to get you going. It varies with each person and > each situation, of course. > > So, sorry you got the impression that one quick ROTW is all you get > and thinking that that's supposed to fix everything. Hope that > explains our practice a little more clearly. I guess you never really > talked with your Dad about the hows and whats and whens and whys of > Reiki practice? Thanks for clarifying! and no i did not and for a miriad of reasons. > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:05:16 +0200 From: Theo Reply-To: byjoke@bluewin.ch User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en, fr, it MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> <268a29d2047a66b3861a0d2f8c53f474@news.teranews.com> <3f763a68.713520@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f770730.1729559@news.east.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <3f770730.1729559@news.east.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.62.187.159 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.62.187.159 Message-ID: <3f7714d7_2@news.bluewin.ch> X-Trace: news.bluewin.ch 1064768727 81.62.187.159 (28 Sep 2003 19:05:27 +0200) Organization: Bluewin AG Lines: 46 Complaints-To: abuse@bluewin.ch X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.bluewin.ch!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9010 Nadie Niemand wrote: SNIP > Yes, Kevin, the above paragraph is off base. No one believes that one > ROTW is *necessarily* a cure for anything. The intent behind a single > ROTW, like a single in person session, is to give you a helping hand > on the road to wellness. It is not the end of the road. You can think > of it as helping to support someone to get through a crisis, or to > give them a helping hand on their healing journey, or even to get them > started on their healing journey. absolutely true otherwise if a ROTW was enought the whole world would be fine since longtime > Also, usually when someone is having a severe crisis and we post ROTW, > we may add them to our nightly/weekly/whatever lists and continue > sending Reiki at regular intervals. Many times when someone requests, > we send Reiki without bothering to post ROTW or any other sort of > reply to the post. I agree > If someone posts a request for Reiki, they will get > it, whether they see a reply to their post or not. BTW, sometimes one > ROTW is all you need to get you going. It varies with each person and > each situation, of course. > > So, sorry you got the impression that one quick ROTW is all you get > and thinking that that's supposed to fix everything. Hope that > explains our practice a little more clearly. I guess you never really > talked with your Dad about the hows and whats and whens and whys of > Reiki practice? True when we send Reiki it works * for the best*I mean for what is asked, and mainly for what is needed - but not asked,as probably ignored, say that probably *whats wrong is not ONLY what you see or feel* and probably it is even ignored by the demander, and Reiki acts on that too, probably starts putting things in the right way but it is not a magic stick, it takes time to gets out of track it takes times to get back on track Nmamaste Theo ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:39:39 +0200 Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-241.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3f77994f.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 29 Sep 2003 04:30:39 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-241.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-241.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9025 "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:46:59 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > >>Those > >> sorts of feelings can be some of the benefits of practicing Reiki. You > >> said your father practiced Reiki for many years, so you must be > >> familiar with the 5 precepts? > > > >I'm not gary. . . > > There are different translations and versions floating around, and not > being a Japanese speaker, fluent or otherwise, I'm not in a position > to judge, but I guess the bottom line is you get as much out of them > as you put into them, regardless of which version you prefer. I bought myself two German books on Reiki and in both of them they have the same translation. As they come from different authors and publishers it looks to me to be the common German translation. I found them to be terrible and inferior to any of the English versions I can remember. The German version gives me quite a different feel what the precepts are about and what is important. As my mother tongue is German I cannot attribute this to any personal translation difficulties a non-german speaker may have, but sense that it is part of something bigger. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f779c45.408432@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f738481.1410979@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b7f8.9909845@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f77994f.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 21 Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:38:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.69.13.252 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1064803129 207.69.13.252 (Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:38:49 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:38:49 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9033 On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 09:39:39 +0200, "pr" wrote: >I bought myself two German books on Reiki and in >both of them they have the same translation. As they >come from different authors and publishers it looks to >me to be the common German translation. I found them >to be terrible and inferior to any of the English versions >I can remember. The German version gives me quite >a different feel what the precepts are about and >what is important. As my mother tongue is German >I cannot attribute this to any personal translation >difficulties a non-german speaker may have, but sense >that it is part of something bigger. Interessant, Peter! Danke schoen! Would you mind posting one of the German versions, just for curiosity's sake? Garry ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Lines: 423 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:29:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.149.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1064813346 162.83.149.106 (Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:29:06 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:29:06 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9032 I'm not sure how to indicate where i have responded in the exchange, i think it's getting confusing, so i am going to mark my most current responses with an asterisk** (or two. . . or three. . .) "arthealer" wrote in message news:dceabc62804588b4f9856db560c24857@news.teranews.com... > > "gingerobyn" wrote in message > news:OCOcb.4676$541.2290@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > > totally interesting and thought provoking ideas from both of you! > > > > i just wanted to extract and comment on only a few things (though there is > > much to think about): > > > > "I guess the operative words are " in this context". For example: Chemo- > > therapy is poison. The hope is that it kills the enemy prior to killing > > you." > > > > i agree that poisoning one's body doesn't make much sense, but it > > works for some people and for some ends up as their only hope. if > > it gets to that point where a person "requires" chemotherapy, they > > can't much help the fact that they live in a society with a certain > > paradigm about health and disease. their body has already bought > > into it and their doctors and health insurance companies have > > already decided what their options are. people know only what > > they are taught > > Ginger, that is not the truth. People teach themselves things all the time. > There are always lessons to be learned in life with no reference for them, > aren't there? ***i agree with you completely and i knew when i wrote that that i was not expressing exactly what i wanted to. what i mean is that many people just blindly follow what they have been taught. i don't fault these people (ok, well sometimes i do--i'm not perfect) i think that it takes a certain type of person and certain strength to question the things that have been ingrained in one's head for all of their lives. especially if their education by their parents and formal teachers has been to accept what is given and not to question authority. i still don't know if i have expressed what i mean. . . i know the lessons are there for the learning, but sometimes they are hard to come by for some people and for them, the learning may be slower. . . > > >and have access only to what is available to them. > > when modalities like reiki become available to them as well that is a great thing. perhaps it's indicative of the fact that there is a > > paradigm shift occurring, but a huge overhaul just won't happen > > overnight. > > > "What about this barbaric method is worth your support as a healer > > or contains a lick of common sense?" > > > > it's not the method that is worth the support of a healer, its the > > person who is suffering and is in need of the support. > > ginger, it is difficult to argue your logic. It is true the suffering > person needs the support and they have come here to find it only in many cases referred back to the MD ( and of course ROTW.) You mentioned above, "they can't much help the fact that they live in a society with a certain paradigm about health and disease. their body has already bought > > into it and their doctors and health insurance companies have > > already decided what their options are. people know only what > > they are taught and have access only to what is available to them. " > I would simply say that when you refer someone back to the ways of an > allopath, you are contributing and participating in the very paradigm that > you speak of above. When your reference is back to that modality, then it is > not only "them" who have bought that reality and perpetuate it, no? ****yes, i agree with you there, but the fact is that i have bought into this paradigm as well, and while i am shifting from it i haven't rejected it completely (yet?). my feeling is that while i prefer not to go the route of allopathic medicine (for the most part) i wouldnt deny anyone elses right to it. i think that most of the time what you believe in is what works for you. i also think that if a person gets to the point that they are very sick and their body is being ravaged by disease (cancer maybe) it would be irresponsible of me to think i knew something about how to help them heal on the physical level. i have no history of success with that, or any experience with that at all. on the other hand oncologist would have a record of success with that, and the training to deal with it. there is also the fact that (as i think garry brought up) we live in a litigious society. my main interest in referring someone to a doctor would likely be for self- preservation (and i would be completely honest about the reason i am referring them). now granted--if i were an alternative practitioner living in fear of being sued by someone because i contradicted medical advice then perhaps i would draw that type of energy toward me and would end up experiencing the very thing i feared, but well. . . i guess i just wouldn't be willing to take the chance of not covering myself. in fact i just drafted some reiki pamphlets in preparation for future use and i included an extensive medical disclaimer on the back. i had mixed feelings about that, but felt it necessary if i do indeed start a reiki practice. > > >some people > > may choose not to receive chemo--for them that may be an > > empowering choice even if it means death. for others *not* > > choosing chemo (and choosing other methods) may be empowering > > enough of a choice to provoke healing. but those who do choose to > > receive chemo and see it as their only option certainly deserve > > support too. > > Yes, absolutely. . .well said but the support that was wanted by *you* was > ROTW. The modalities are different. . .way different The approaches are > different. . . way different. Why mix the two when it isn't necessary? > Betcha the doctor didn't recommend you:) ***you are probably right, most likely the doctor wouldn't recommend reiki (though my md who is holistic likely would), but the person must have sought it because they felt it was necessary--that's reason enough to mix the two. i'm figuring a person who is recieving chemo and rieki probably started recieving chemo first and then discovered reiki. > > > >does the healer desert the person who is a victim not > > only of disease but also of the "cure"? > > Oh my god. . . try not to mince words ok???!!!!:) **not my intention! > It is my soul felt conviction that as I've stated in the post to Gary *it is not as victims we are unaware* > This statement is *incredibly* powerful and would take some explaining if > you're interested. So, to me, your question tells me that you do believe in > victims.Tell me Ginger, how does one take responsibility for a ":random > act" > of fate like an illness? How can one put logic to heal into a "random act " > like cancer? How can one manage responsibility for recovery when recovery > would also be a "random act"? Is reiki the only stable thing in existence? > Is love random? > You see, your question (to me) holds the key to this whole conversation and > why compassion is so important to you. . . . . . for you, the Universe > operates randomly > where you too are a potential victim. ***no, perhaps i didnt express myself clearly enough. i don't believe the universe operates randomly. i think its a perfectly choreographed symphony where everything is intertwined, where like attracts like, coincidences don't exist and there is meaning in every single action and occurence. i do believe in victims yes, but i do not believe as you surmised that being a victim is random. you are right i do regard myself as a potential victim--because i have been and still could be, but i take responsibility for it and am aware that i have allowed victimization whether on a conscious or subconscious level (a little of both at various times). i do believe that as long as a person is unaware of their own responsibility he or she is still a victim, it is not until someone has shed some light for them, or something has clicked inside of them so that they are able to shed light themselves that they get on the path to end their own victimization. so yes, i do believe in victims, even if the perpetrator is the self. but i do not believe it is random. i also don't think recovery is random. i do think it is the responsibility of the individual. on the other hand, i don't think i will ever reach a person who isn't ready to hear something like that (that they themselves take responsibility for their own suffering) this type of thing could be (mis)interpreted as blame. if i want to help someone but tell them that and they aren't ready to hear it they are going to walk away from me and add me to the list of perpetrators who have treated them unfairly. i realize that you're talking about illnesses in your discussion, but i get the impression that your philosophy on this applies to all areas of life and considering that i ask, what responsibility should someone take when they are a victim of rape? there is a situation where one certainly wouldn't want to be misinterpreted as blaming the woman for what happened. i feel like this may be too . . . uh . . .brutal of an example. . but it's what came to mind. i don't mean to offend anyone. i also ask, what about children? do you make a distinction there?(are they responsible for what happens to them? are their parents responsible for creating the energy around them that makes them susceptible to illness or suffering? . . .are they or are they not victims and can they become aware of their own responsibility for healing serious physcial or emotional wounds?). my opinion about this is that alot of things come into play, including karma. . .but long story short, i think there are "victims unaware". . . until they become "victims aware". . and then become "survivors". . . and then "thrivers" (for lack of better words) > > >asking another for reiki can be empowering. > > i can draw only from my own experience to try to illustrate that: > > > > before i knew what reiki was i certainly didn't have it as a tool. > > what tools did i have for my physical suffering? the opportunity to > > make an appointment with an md that participates in my overpriced > > health insurance plan. for some people that works. for me it left me > > with more frustration, confusion and very few answers about > > *minor* health concerns that aren't life threatening, can't be > > measured by their blood tests and therefore aren't worth the > > doctor's time. no matter to the dr's that i felt these things affected > > my quality of life and overall well-being. this approach takes my > > power way. > > what tools did i have for my emotional baggage? > > psychotherapy, paid for out of my pocket--despite the health > > insurance i resentfully paid for ($250 a month for health insurance > > through cobra and i dont even know what that means). empowering > > for a while to say "my mental health is important enough to me that > > i can put my hard earned money toward improving it." > > yes, yes, yes,. . so, intentions are not random? We can own them? ***never meant to say otherwise. mispoken or misinterpreted. :) > > >even > > more empowering when i came to the realization that it no longer > > satisfied my needs and i made the decision to stop. then exploring > > the issue of diet gave me another tool, that to some degree > > helped some physical ailments and some emotional stuff too. then > > came some forms of energy work that helped, but which did > > keep me believing i was dependent on the practitioner. it was > > empowering however to say to my parents with whom i lived "no > > this (energy) doctor is not a fraud, no i don't need to see another md > > whose going to give me a pill for my yeast infection, another > > whose going to give me a pill for my allergy symptoms, another > > who is going to give me a pill to decrease my anxiety level, and yet > > another whose going to tell me to take iboprofin for back pain. and > > yes this really does work and the expense is worth it to me" > > breaking away from what i have been spoon fed has definitely been > > empowering. one new tool led to the discovery of another > > eventually leading me to reiki. > > This story of yours is incredibly empowering! > > >initially there seemed this potential > > to become dependent on the practitioner, until she told me i could > > learn this myself and should. > > This is a good point and one that could be utilized right here in this news > group. **i do think it is utilized in this newsgroup. . .hmm. maybe not stated explicitly because perhaps many of us assume that we all know we need to take responsibility for our own well-being. > > >not long after i realized she was right. > > so now i can offer reiki to myself. is it the last stop on the line? no. > > a magic bullet? no way. there are other things i need to explore-- > > but this has provided a comforting tool for me and has invoked alot > > of shifts in me. the healing is subtle and certainly not complete, but > > it is genuine. in the meantime i can ask others to support my own > > efforts to support my healing (and sometimes that means asking > > others to send reiki) and for me personally doing so involves more > > growth than dependence because i used to be very stubborn and > > have way too much pride to ask another for help. > > Yes, i know ego will stand in the way of many things and usually there > are major breakthroughs when it is put out of the drivers seat:) > > >did not want to > > appear vulnerable to others. the fact that i can now ask another for > > help and support with my healing is growth i am proud of really. > > there is strength in vulnerability > > You said a mouthful!!!! > > , and i also recognize that in > > reaching out to others to ask for help i may be offering help to them > > in some way too. > > > > when an *active* choice is made to do *something* (whether that > > be asking for reiki, offering self reiki, meditating, seeing a > > different doctor, taking herbs, going sky diving, climb mt. fuji, > > whatever) i think its empowering. when a passive choice is made > > to do something because its what others have done before or > > because it's what others have told you to do, i don't believe there is > > much healing power in that. the healing experiences will be unique > > to the individual and will come in different ways. > > > > "The power in ones healing process is triggered from within and is > > evolutionary. . ." > > > > for me reiki directed by myself, and by others is part of that > > evolutionary process. > > reiki is intent responsive in healing but people are victims when they > become ill? ***until they believe otherwise, yes they are victims. and for that reason i don't think reiki is *effectively* intent responsive in healing everyone. if i were to just continue to go to the reiki practitioner i first saw and say "take away my headaches, move this stuck energy, help me feel that relaxing meditative state. . . etc." i don't believe my healing would occur nearly as effectively as i believe it will occur now that i have taken personal responsibility for it (on the other hand, i won't stop asking for help when i feel i need it). > I am in deep respect of your sharing your journey of healing. Thank you, i > consider it a gift.You are a shining light. **thank you. that means more than you know :) > > > "The posts here like ROTW seem rather frivolous in light of the > > work, dedication, energy, thought, play, understanding, life force, > > tears, anger, fear, passion, that goes into healing deeply." > > > > this isn't quite your point, > >but yes, the abbreviation can sound trite. it > > can imply that no thought went into it and that the concern isn't > > worth much time or energy. maybe sometimes that is the case. but > > each rotw feels different to me and none of them really feel too > > trite or frivolous to me. some feel like genuine energy, some feel > > like the pat on the back or the hand to hold. some feel like a couple > > of alphabet letters. but why not add the rotw to the list of "work, > > dedication, energy, thought , play . . . etc." that goes into healing > > deeply? isn't part of it? > > If it is part of yours then it is!:) > > > > "ROTW can't supply someone the insight it may take to > > overcome an illness that a person has been indoctrinated to believe > > will strip him/her of their very life. . .and even if it did what > > growth would have taken place to prevent the same from happening > > again? ROTW seems to be more like a "relax, you'll be fine". . . > > .or, a pat on the back for confidence or "I wish you the best and > > highest:" or in some cases it seems a prideful "incantation". Don't > > get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the power of an intention > > but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go along with it. . > > .action." > > > > perhaps it can't supply the insight, and yes a bit of wisdom is often > > helpful, but perhaps sometimes it's better to invoke a little reiki than > to > > impart your wisdom and impose it on another. if the insights > > are to come from within the person seeking the healing there is no > > need to taint that with your own ideas about how that person should > > heal. > > > There is no reason to hide your light under a bushel basket either. > insights can be triggered. Seeds can be planted and nurtured. It is wise to > be mindful of which seeds are watered and which ones are best ignored. Is > there such a thing as a tainted insight? **good point, i don't believe genuine insights should be held back. but sometimes the "insights" are not the light or the seeds you are referring to. sometimes they are ego driven comments that impose someone's opinion on someone else. . . or judgements, criticisms or instructions "you should do blah blah blah" and when someone asks for reiki that is not what they are asking for. perhaps the reiki they asked for will help them uncover the right insight themselves. so yes, when someone has wisdom to share along with the reiki, then they should and sometimes they do (when i first started posting here i recieved a lot of supportive comments and wisdom from others so i know it happens here), but when someone does not have anything to offer no need to dress up the reiki, just send the energy their way and let it go where it needs to. > > > >the wisdom is not the action, the sending of the rieki is the > > action. > > I would say that *thoughts are things*. . .and they both can fall under the > realm of action. ***yes, well it is a thought that propels the reiki when i send it. i think "send reiki" and it is sent, so thoughts are part of an action (and sharing wisdom is an action) but i thought you implied that sending reiki alone is not "taking action" but that offering wisdom is. (you said: "Don't get me wrong . . I am a huge believer in the power of an intention but it seems impotent without a bit of wisdom to go along with it. . .action.") If would also ask what you think of specifically when > you.send rieki? ***i personally ask that the reiki be directed to the person requesting it and offer them the healing and support they require. i don't consider what it is that they require or need while i send it. i don't assume that i know what the reiki will do, or that the person knows consciously what the reiki will do for them. i just hope for the "highest good" as is often stated by others here. i may have a wish when i send it, but i try to keep my own wish out of it. for instance, my friend's uncle was in hospice care (he died a few weeks ago) i knew that it was likely he would die. when i sent reiki to him i asked that it be sent to "ease his suffering" and "for his highest good." i hoped his highest good was the miracle that his life would be saved (not as a direct result because *i* sent reiki, just because that might be the highest good) but knew that his highest good may well have been transitioning from this lifetime and his family having to experience the grief of his untimely death. needless to say he did pass on and that is not what i wanted at all. his wife, daughter, neice, sister and countless others (including his mother who suffers from adult dementia or alzheimers and is cared for by his sister and neice) are left behind to grieve. i don't like knowing that they are in pain but i don't for a second think that i or anyone else had any direct control over his living or dying, reiki, no reiki, medicine, or no medicine. > > > ok, well forgive me for going on. i don't make my points as > > succinctly as Gary or others do. and well, my written > > communication issue in this forum goes beyond spelling errors. > > forgive me for all of that. please. . . and do send some reiki if > > you can maybe it will help ;) > > > you are so very kind hearted and loving. . .it is truly rare. thank you so > much for your insights and sharing of hard earned experience. Both you and > Gary have given me lots to chew on.. . . .for the learning:) > > Kevin **thank you kevin for your thoughtful words and perception. it really does mean alot--it feels good to be recognized underneath it all. i appreciate the respectful way you present your point of view. you are kind yourself! and thank *you* for the thought-provoking topic. definitely lots to consider. namaste! (with all --ginger ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <_yPdb.13095$541.6483@nwrdny02.gnilink.net> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:38:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.149.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1064813882 162.83.149.106 (Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:38:02 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:38:02 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9034 And while it is encouraging that a hospital recommended Reiki to its chemo patients, don't hold your breath--it's just one hospital, and policies change at least as often as administrators. Time will tell if the policy sticks and the idea spreads. Be Optimistic!!!!!! i read some cynicism here. be careful of the energy those thoughts might carry ;) my moms friend works at a hospital in ocean county in new jersey- -when i told her about my experience with reiki (in july of 2002) she told me that they had a few people practicing reiki in the hospital. i don't remember in what ward specifically. with patients who have chronic pain i believe. interesting aside. my reiki experiences gain credence with my family and my parents friends only when they hear from someone else that there are medical doctors who practice or respect it. ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all Lines: 58 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 05:49:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.149.106 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1064814552 162.83.149.106 (Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:49:12 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 01:49:12 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9035 Does insurance pay for a reiki > >treatment yet? Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major > provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get > back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the > American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance > companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) > but i think there lies a problem with that because the insurance companies often dictate what tests a doctor can use, how many sessions a person can recieve for mental health issues, how many visits they can make to a particular specialist, what medicine can be prescribed (a few years back i actually had the HIP of new york deny me diflucan as my doctor prescribed it because it didn't fit their requirements for prescribing). if reiki were covered by insurance then perhaps the insurance company would dictate how many sessions are acceptable for a person, how long the treatment can be, where the practitioner may treat or whatever. not to mention insurance as we have it is kind of . . well it's limiting to say the least. i like that i pay for (or used to) my reiki sessions. it is my choice and i have control over it. for people who can't afford it there are people who work with a sliding scale fee, or an exchange system or token economy or whatever. it would be great if reiki were covered. . . but i think it will be even better if we can somehow eliminate insurance companies as they exist right now and come up with a better plan where people are cared for as they need to be just because it's our responsibility as human beings to care for one another. perhaps one day that will happen again. "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message news:3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net... > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:08:07 GMT, "arthealer" > wrote: > > > Well, even to have the one is a beginning. Things (thoughts) are > >beginning to change and evolve a bit, no? Holistic health practitioners are > >bountiful here. Many are working under a licenced Dr. so they can 'get away' > >with more healing than if they weren't. Does insurance pay for a reiki > >treatment yet? > > Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major > provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get > back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the > American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance > companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) > > Love and Light, > > Garry > ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all (ot offshoot) Lines: 81 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:34:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.148.99 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny01.gnilink.net 1064889297 162.83.148.99 (Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:34:57 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 22:34:57 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny01.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9061 ok. . .sorry for the one-sided conversation here, but along the lines of what i was saying about insurance companies--i learned something today that disgusted me. a 4 year old child who attends my school has extensive life-threatening allergies. rather than drink milk or soy milk he needs to drink some kind of formula that was prescribed by his doctor (i think its also to make up for the nutrition he doesn't get because so many things are off-limits to him). supposedly (he is not my student so this is second-hand info) if his formula was fed through a g-tube it would be covered by insurance but since the formula is ingested in the typical way it is no longer covered by his insurance company despite the fact that he needs it--leaving his parents to pay thousands of dollars to insure that this child gets the proper nutrition he needs to develop normally. what kind of sense does that make? i think it's shameful. (ok, enough of the one-sided convo. it looks so pathetic to see my id listed here so many times in a row. if anyone wants to respond to one of these just to break it up and help me look a little less pathetic that would be great. . . "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:sJPdb.13098$541.11372@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > Does insurance pay for a reiki > > >treatment yet? > > Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major > > provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get > > back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the > > American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance > > companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) > > > > > but i think there lies a problem with that because the insurance > companies often dictate what tests a doctor can use, how many > sessions a person can recieve for mental health issues, how many > visits they can make to a particular specialist, what medicine can > be prescribed (a few years back i actually had the HIP of new york > deny me diflucan as my doctor prescribed it because it didn't fit > their requirements for prescribing). if reiki were covered by > insurance then perhaps the insurance company would dictate how > many sessions are acceptable for a person, how long the treatment > can be, where the practitioner may treat or whatever. not to > mention insurance as we have it is kind of . . well it's limiting to > say the least. i like that i pay for (or used to) my reiki sessions. it is > my choice and i have control over it. for people who can't afford it > there are people who work with a sliding scale fee, or an exchange > system or token economy or whatever. it would be great if reiki > were covered. . . but i think it will be even better if we can > somehow eliminate insurance companies as they exist right now > and come up with a better plan where people are cared for as they > need to be just because it's our responsibility as human beings to > care for one another. perhaps one day that will happen again. > > > "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message > news:3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net... > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:08:07 GMT, "arthealer" > > wrote: > > > > > Well, even to have the one is a beginning. Things (thoughts) are > > >beginning to change and evolve a bit, no? Holistic health practitioners > are > > >bountiful here. Many are working under a licenced Dr. so they can 'get > away' > > >with more healing than if they weren't. Does insurance pay for a reiki > > >treatment yet? > > > > Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major > > provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get > > back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the > > American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance > > companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) > > > > Love and Light, > > > > Garry > > > > ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all (ot offshoot) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:20:12 +0200 Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-200-160.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3f7a4481.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 1 Oct 2003 05:05:37 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-200-160.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-200-160.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9069 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:lZ5eb.12282$yU5.7137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net... > (ok, enough of the one-sided convo. it looks so pathetic to see my id listed > here so many times in a row. if anyone wants to respond to one of these just > to break it up and help me look a little less pathetic that would be great. bmotw (Breakup Message On The way) To be serious, out of your comments rises another topic but that is material for a new thread. -- Peter Reber ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <9a06599e1897710882da447b054648cb@news.teranews.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 06:34:33 GMT Lines: 108 From: "arthealer" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all (ot offshoot) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9065 "gingerobyn" wrote in message news:lZ5eb.12282$yU5.7137@nwrdny01.gnilink.net... Glad to help out:) > ok. . .sorry for the one-sided conversation here, but along the lines of > what i was saying about insurance companies--i learned something today that > disgusted me. a 4 year old child who attends my school has extensive > life-threatening allergies. rather than drink milk or soy milk he needs to > drink some kind of formula that was prescribed by his doctor (i think its > also to make up for the nutrition he doesn't get because so many things are > off-limits to him). supposedly (he is not my student so this is second-hand > info) if his formula was fed through a g-tube it would be covered by > insurance but since the formula is ingested in the typical way it is no > longer covered by his insurance company despite the fact that he needs > it--leaving his parents to pay thousands of dollars to insure that this > child gets the proper nutrition he needs to develop normally. what kind of > sense does that make? i think it's shameful. > It is shameful ginger! What a racket those insurance companies are. It makes absolutely no sense. A very good friend of mine is a speech pathologist. He tells me horror stories about the HMO's and how it leaves not only people hanging but tells Dr.s how to go about there business. They about have everybody in their pocket, no? Thanks for the post! Guess I won't go buy any then:) > (ok, enough of the one-sided convo. it looks so pathetic to see my id listed > here so many times in a row. if anyone wants to respond to one of these just > to break it up and help me look a little less pathetic that would be great. > . . > "gingerobyn" wrote in message > news:sJPdb.13098$541.11372@nwrdny02.gnilink.net... > > Does insurance pay for a reiki > > > >treatment yet? > > > > Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major > > > provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get > > > back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the > > > American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance > > > companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) > > > > > > > > > but i think there lies a problem with that because the insurance > > companies often dictate what tests a doctor can use, how many > > sessions a person can recieve for mental health issues, how many > > visits they can make to a particular specialist, what medicine can > > be prescribed (a few years back i actually had the HIP of new york > > deny me diflucan as my doctor prescribed it because it didn't fit > > their requirements for prescribing). if reiki were covered by > > insurance then perhaps the insurance company would dictate how > > many sessions are acceptable for a person, how long the treatment > > can be, where the practitioner may treat or whatever. not to > > mention insurance as we have it is kind of . . well it's limiting to > > say the least. i like that i pay for (or used to) my reiki sessions. it is > > my choice and i have control over it. for people who can't afford it > > there are people who work with a sliding scale fee, or an exchange > > system or token economy or whatever. it would be great if reiki > > were covered. . . but i think it will be even better if we can > > somehow eliminate insurance companies as they exist right now > > and come up with a better plan where people are cared for as they > > need to be just because it's our responsibility as human beings to > > care for one another. perhaps one day that will happen again. > > > > > > "Nadie Niemand" wrote in message > > news:3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net... > > > On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 01:08:07 GMT, "arthealer" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Well, even to have the one is a beginning. Things (thoughts) are > > > >beginning to change and evolve a bit, no? Holistic health > practitioners > > are > > > >bountiful here. Many are working under a licenced Dr. so they can 'get > > away' > > > >with more healing than if they weren't. Does insurance pay for a reiki > > > >treatment yet? > > > > > > Don't quote me, but I seem to recall seeing it listed on some major > > > provider not too long ago. I'll try to dig up the reference and get > > > back to you. Now *that* would be real change! Money is what moves the > > > American market. If there's a buck to be made, and the insurance > > > companies can smell it, it will happen. :-) > > > > > > Love and Light, > > > > > > Garry > > > > > > > > > ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: <18a447fb98aa002911d94a88cbbdf57e@news.teranews.com> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:13:52 GMT Lines: 10 From: suzee Reply-To: qiuser@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all (ot offshoot) References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9054 gingerobyn wrote: > > (ok, enough of the one-sided convo. it looks so pathetic to see my id listed > here so many times in a row. if anyone wants to respond to one of these just > to break it up and help me look a little less pathetic that would be great. You're doing great, girl! Keep it up. sue ###### From: "gingerobyn" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f72c7d1.881447@news.east.earthlink.net> <9e7a6b1ffd856a94b76fc4f71faf2750@news.teranews.com> <3f7562cc.490943@news.east.earthlink.net> <3f75b242.8447637@news.east.earthlink.net> <7fc62d0e7a85889a4321b4360425edb3@news.teranews.com> <3f76401a.2171967@news.east.earthlink.net> <18a447fb98aa002911d94a88cbbdf57e@news.teranews.com> Subject: Re: A Rant . . .sorting through it all (ot offshoot) Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:49:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.83.233.218 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1064951377 162.83.233.218 (Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:49:37 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:49:37 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:9059 hee. thanks. "suzee" wrote in message news:18a447fb98aa002911d94a88cbbdf57e@news.teranews.com... > gingerobyn wrote: > > > > > (ok, enough of the one-sided convo. it looks so pathetic to see my id listed > > here so many times in a row. if anyone wants to respond to one of these just > > to break it up and help me look a little less pathetic that would be great. > > You're doing great, girl! Keep it up. > > sue