From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Curing and healing Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:48:08 +0200 Lines: 42 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3f1f1167.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Jul 2003 00:51:19 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news-out.newsfeeds.com!propagator2-maxim!news-in.superfeed.net!enews.sgi.com!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-201-189.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8108 "Theo" wrote in message news:3F1D568B.38B90E2C@bluewin.ch... > do not say idiocyes that might make some unfortunate people have fake > hopes > everything can be cured in a very good way today but not definitely > Miracles con exist but not as mass production > Sorry to be rude ,enthusiasm can relieve some disperate people and > deception can be fatal right after Not every illness can be cured, but every disease can be healed. Curing somebody may depend, at least to some degree, on the healer/doctor, healing only depends on the person suffering from the disease. If you go to somebody to be cured and its not sucessful, you might blame them for possible misdiagnosis, wrong treatment or a botched procedure. If you go to be healed and it does not happen you can only look at yourself. If I may generalize, being cured is a physical process, being healed a mental one. You make your own miracles and your own deceptions. I would also be careful not to base my responses on third parties who, in their enthusiam, may overstate the actual claims made. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs" > JohnSmith wrote: > > > I have just visited Joel the Deus, the miracle man on Brasilia. I was so > > impressed by miracles I had seen that I made a web page about him. > > He cures AIDS, cancers etc. > > See my site http://members.optusnet.com.au/slavek/ > ###### From: montanevine@netidea.com (montane) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Curing and healing Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:23:21 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 82 Message-ID: <3f1f14c7.4063847@news.netidea.com> References: <3f1f1167.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-230.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8112 On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:48:08 +0200, "pr" wrote: > >Not every illness can be cured, but every disease can be healed. >Curing somebody may depend, at least to some degree, on the >healer/doctor, healing only depends on the person suffering from >the disease. Peter, you may have been around this board for a few years -- I can't recall. This topic has been kicked around a lot, and definitive statements have perhaps never been agreed upon. Your generalizations seem okay. Self responsibility is good. But remember that people generally approach energy or spiritual healers because they have arrived at an impasse in terms of the apparent effectiveness of their self-responsibility. They may even have arrived at an impasse in terms of what medical doctors have been able to do for them. >If you go to somebody to be cured and its not sucessful, you might >blame them for possible misdiagnosis, wrong treatment or >a botched procedure. If you go to be healed and it does not >happen you can only look at yourself. Perhaps. At least what you are saying seems reasonable. >If I may generalize, being cured is a physical process, being >healed a mental one. You make your own miracles and your >own deceptions. Since you are "one of us," having been attuned to Reiki, you no doubt recall that one of our symbols (CKR) has generally been identified as having to do with physical healing, whereas another (SHK) has generally been identified with mental/emotional healing. >I would also be careful not to base my responses on third parties >who, in their enthusiam, may overstate the actual claims made. > I won't say it is not possible to overstate something. And I, for one, generally put less faith in hearsay than in what I have experienced 'up close and personal'. But I have one friend who had bad back trouble after an auto accident (had surgery, physiotherapy, the whole bit), and he got it cured in one session by a South American spiritual healer. Another person I knew a little (mother of a friend of mine) had emphysema, and got it cured in a single session by a Phillipine "psychic surgeon." Because I knew these people personally, I had to take their stories, as they told them to me, pretty seriously. One way I look at it is this: before I was attuned to Reiki, I really could not understand the mysteriously positive effect people associated with their own attunements. Nor could I have understood the routine improvements to personal health frequently experienced by people after attunement to Reiki, nor did I really have any sense of what it would be like to give a Reiki healing session to another person. After my attunement and subsequent practice of Reiki, I have personal experience with it -- so I *know* in a sense I did not know before. Helps me to keep my mind open to that which I have not yet experienced -- including the possibility that there are healers who are channels or catalysts for really miraculous healing (cures). Blessings, montane >-- >Namu Amida Butsu >Peter Reber >"Life knows its needs" > >> JohnSmith wrote: >> >> > I have just visited Joel the Deus, the miracle man on Brasilia. I was so >> > impressed by miracles I had seen that I made a web page about him. >> > He cures AIDS, cancers etc. >> > See my site http://members.optusnet.com.au/slavek/ >> > > > > > > > ###### From: nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Curing and healing Reply-To: nobody@nowhere.org.net Message-ID: <3f1f36c9.709620@news.east.earthlink.net> References: <3f1f1167.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3f1f14c7.4063847@news.netidea.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 36 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:47:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.247.153.124 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1059011227 165.247.153.124 (Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:47:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 21:47:07 EDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!sjc70.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8117 On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 23:23:21 GMT, montanevine@netidea.com (montane) wrote: >Since you are "one of us," having been attuned to Reiki, you no doubt recall >that one of our symbols (CKR) has generally been identified as having to do >with physical healing, whereas another (SHK) has generally been identified >with mental/emotional healing. But see Vinny's http://www.reiki-do.org/letters/symbolsmeaning.htm for an alternative interpretation. I've been trying to get some discussion going on this subject on the URRI list, too. So far I have found out, both from people on the URRI list and from asking some native Japanese speakers that a friend of mine is learning taiko drumming from, that the names of the symbols, at least as written in romanji, don't seem to mean much, if anything, to the ordinary Japanese person, with the possible exception of the 2nd symbol. They are in the nature of mantras that only sound like nonsense words to the average person. So it may be that the interpretations of the symbols that have been handed down to us, like so much else in our art, have been distorted or even made up by the Western "New Agers". (And before anyone says anything, yes, the NA group has been rubbing off on me, apparently, since I've already taken to dabbling in aromatherapy. Can crystals be far behind? ) Just a gentle reminder to keep the mental door open in this area, as well. Love and Light, Garry ###### From: montanevine@netidea.com (montane) Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki Subject: Re: Curing and healing Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 03:18:52 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3f1f4f91.7955256@news.netidea.com> References: <3f1f1167.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3f1f14c7.4063847@news.netidea.com> <3f1f36c9.709620@news.east.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-838.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8113 On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 01:47:07 GMT, nobody@nowhere.org.net (Nadie Niemand) wrote: >nonsense words to the average person. So it may be that the >interpretations of the symbols that have been handed down to us, like >so much else in our art, have been distorted or even made up >by the Western "New Agers". (And before anyone says anything, yes, the >NA group has been rubbing off on me, apparently, since I've already >taken to dabbling in aromatherapy. Can crystals be far behind? ) > >Just a gentle reminder to keep the mental door open in this area, as >well. > I suppose you're right, Garry. Sigh............ montane ###### From: "pr" Newsgroups: alt.healing.reiki References: <3f1f1167.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3f1f14c7.4063847@news.netidea.com> Subject: Re: Curing and healing Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 05:19:16 +0200 Lines: 113 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: nld-dial-196-7-202-166.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3f1fce54.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 24 Jul 2003 14:17:24 +0200, nld-dial-196-7-202-166.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!eusc.inter.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!teleglobe.net!uunet.co.za!news1.mweb.co.za!nld-dial-196-7-202-166.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.healing.reiki:8111 "montane" wrote in message news:3f1f14c7.4063847@news.netidea.com... > On Thu, 24 Jul 2003 00:48:08 +0200, "pr" wrote: Hi Montane, > >Not every illness can be cured, but every disease can be healed. > >Curing somebody may depend, at least to some degree, on the > >healer/doctor, healing only depends on the person suffering from > >the disease. > > Peter, you may have been around this board for a few years -- I can't recall. > This topic has been kicked around a lot, and definitive statements have > perhaps never been agreed upon. Your generalizations seem okay. Self > responsibility is good. But remember that people generally approach energy > or spiritual healers because they have arrived at an impasse in terms of the > apparent effectiveness of their self-responsibility. They may even have > arrived at an impasse in terms of what medical doctors have been able to do > for them. In my first draft it read "in principle every disease can be healed". It got lost while editing. The disagreements often originate in that a word may not have the same meanings for all. Your point about the impasse is made well and maybe just because they have reached an impasse, we need to be thoughtful when interacting with them (see below). However, I assume that this group can stomach "definitive statements" and if not correct or too restrictive will respond to it with alternative views. > >If you go to somebody to be cured and its not sucessful, you might > >blame them for possible misdiagnosis, wrong treatment or > >a botched procedure. If you go to be healed and it does not > >happen you can only look at yourself. > > Perhaps. At least what you are saying seems reasonable. Again, my first draft read "you can only blame yourself." I then realized that one of the worst things to do would be to become embroiled in the (self-) blaming game. Looking at myself, I can realize that I am stuck, do not want to be self-responsible, and I can even heal that myself by accepting that this is the case at this moment. > >If I may generalize, being cured is a physical process, being > >healed a mental one. You make your own miracles and your > >own deceptions. > > Since you are "one of us," having been attuned to Reiki, you no doubt recall > that one of our symbols (CKR) has generally been identified as having to do > with physical healing, whereas another (SHK) has generally been identified > with mental/emotional healing. > > >I would also be careful not to base my responses on third parties > >who, in their enthusiam, may overstate the actual claims made. > > > > I won't say it is not possible to overstate something. This paragraph was written because I was irritated by the rant against the practitioner. I am sure that people who derived benefits from visting such people make claims which were /never/ made by the practitioner him/herself. To take the statements of third parties, attribute them to the practitioner, and then use them to lauch a tirade against him/her, seems to be unfair, to say the least. The "client" may indeed claim, and this quite correctly and truthfully, that s/he was cured, but the question is whether the healer makes such claims that the s/he can cure people of certain illnesses. Once more, the original text was probably more clear about making that point, but I toned it down so as to make it sound less judgmental, and its point may have gotten lost. > And I, for one, > generally put less faith in hearsay than in what I have experienced 'up close > and personal'. But I have one friend who had bad back trouble after an auto > accident (had surgery, physiotherapy, the whole bit), and he got it cured in > one session by a South American spiritual healer. Another person I knew a > little (mother of a friend of mine) had emphysema, and got it cured in a > single session by a Phillipine "psychic surgeon." Because I knew these > people personally, I had to take their stories, as they told them to me, > pretty seriously. I know of a person who went to see the Nigerian Prophet recently. I do not know the result, but what I heard from people working with them was that the parents were quite unhappy about it. I found myself having to do some re-framing work to arrive at a compassionate view. Now, instead of thinking about the person as stupid, gullible, foolish, etc. I can find goodwill towards them within me. Aplogies for the clumsy phrasing of this paragraph, done to remove any identifying details, including gender. A question was asked (in another thread): "...what is the 'soul' of AHR? Everyone is a part of it. How would you describe it? Can you describe it?" My answer (just for today) would be "it is one of thoughtful interaction". Thanks montane. -- Namu Amida Butsu Peter Reber "Life knows its needs"